Hour 1 - Delicious Irony

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 1 – Delicious Irony
Date: October 10, 2025
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton unpack the dramatic news that New York Attorney General Letitia James has been indicted for mortgage fraud. They analyze the legal and political fallout, discuss the deep irony considering James’s past prosecution of Donald Trump, and question James’s ability to remain in office while under federal indictment. The hosts also touch on broader implications for legal ethics, selective prosecutions, and the balance between justice and political retribution. Notable moments of humor, sharp analysis, and pointed commentary are interspersed throughout, maintaining the show’s trademark mix of seriousness and levity.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Letitia James Indictment: Details & Reactions

(04:17–13:00)

• Breaking News: New York AG Letitia James indicted for mortgage fraud in Virginia.
• Delicious Irony: The hosts highlight the irony that James, who led the high-profile civil case against Trump for real estate valuation/fraud, is now facing similar charges.
• Legal Analysis:
  • Buck emphasizes the seriousness of grand jury indictments, especially coming from an "ideal" blue state jury pool for James.
  • Clay underscores the straightforward nature of the alleged fraud—primarily misstating property use as "primary residence" on a mortgage.
• Quote:
  • "The law either applies to everyone or should apply to no one. And by the way, here she is...making that very point." — Buck Sexton (08:31)

---

2. Double Standards and "Weaponization" of Law

(05:24–11:46)

• Call for Accountability:
  • Clay and Buck argue elites, including prosecutors, must be held to the same standards they apply to others.
  • Reference to famous prosecutions (Martha Stewart, Rudy Giuliani, Bill Clinton) to emphasize perceived double standards.
• Need for Consistency:
  • Clay: "You either can step aside or we'll remove you... she should be held to a standard that you've held everyday Americans to." (08:06)
  • The hosts dissect statements by Letitia James insisting that "everyone must play by the same rules," pointing out the current irony (08:56).

---

3. Should Letitia James Step Down? Questions of Ethics and Office

(11:46–16:25; 31:57–36:30)

• Conflict of Interest: Buck is adamant that James should step down while under federal indictment, arguing it's untenable to continue prosecuting others for crimes she herself faces.
  • Buck: "How in the world can you be expected to be a fair and impartial ruler of the law when you're prosecuting people for felony charges that you yourself face?" (11:46)
• Practical vs. Legal Reality:
  • Clay suggests New York’s Democratic establishment is unlikely to pressure her removal unless codified in state law.
  • Ultimately, removal requires a recommendation by the governor and action by the state senate—both Democrat-controlled—making removal politically unlikely (36:04).
• Quote:
  • "If you are the chief law enforcement officer of a state and you are facing felony charges, I don't understand how you remain in that position." — Buck Sexton (10:15)

---

4. Media and Political Spin Around the Indictment

(21:21–31:57)

• Media Downplays Charges:
  • CNN’s Casey Hunt claims mortgage fraud is common, essentially minimizing James’s indictment.
  • Clay: “Everybody commits mortgage fraud. I love that she threw in there, ‘if you're lucky enough to have a home.’ I don't think so!” (21:21)
• Kamala Harris’s Reaction:
  • The VP frames the indictment as politically fueled, claiming even conservative prosecutors declined prior cases—cast as Trump’s “vengeance agenda” (25:08).
• Jeffrey Toobin’s Take:
  • Expresses alarm at perceived political interference in prosecutions.
  • Clay points out that indictments stemmed from the grand jury process, not presidential fiat.
• Quote:
  • “No one's even trying to say she didn't do it.” — Buck Sexton (30:48)

---

5. The Broader Impact: Selective Prosecution and Legal System Integrity

(23:16–33:51)

• Tyranny vs. Equality Before the Law:
  • Clay insists that if law enforcers break the law, failure to hold them accountable breeds tyranny.
  • Reference made to prior high-profile cases: “If the people enforcing the law do not have to obey the law, we are living in a tyranny.” (23:16)
• Legal Ethics in Practice:
  • Clay and Buck argue the precedent for disbarring lawyers (Giuliani, Bill Clinton)—James as AG should be held to an even higher ethical standard (33:07–33:54).

---

6. Updates from Trump World: Melania’s Humanitarian Efforts

(42:50–44:06)

• Melania Trump Announcement:
  • Reports her efforts helped reunite 8 Ukrainian children with their families following direct communications with Vladimir Putin.
  • Melania: “For the past three months, both sides have participated in several back channel meetings and calls, all in good faith...Eight children have been rejoined with their families during the past 24 hours.” (42:50)
• Host Reaction:
  • Buck: “They’re stacking together a lot of good.” (44:06)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On James’s predicament:
  • “This is a delicious irony...she went after Trump for alleged fraud when it came to the loan proceedings that he was able to get relating to his assets...she has lied about what it’s being used for.” — Buck Sexton (07:50)
• On media minimizing the fraud:
  • “Everybody commits mortgage fraud. I love that she threw in there, ‘if you’re lucky enough to have a home.’ I don’t think so.” — Clay Travis (21:21)
• On accountability:
  • “Either the elites...live under the laws they use against us, or we are in a tyranny.” — Buck Sexton (08:31)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |----------------------------------- |-------------------| | Show Open/Greetings | 01:34–01:53 | | Letitia James Indictment Starts | 04:17 | | Charges, Grand Jury Discussion | 05:24–07:50 | | Irony and Political Parallels | 08:06–13:00 | | Should James Step Down? | 11:46–16:25 | | Media Reactions, Casey Hunt | 21:21–22:18 | | Kamala Harris Reaction | 25:08–26:02 | | Jeffrey Toobin’s Commentary | 28:31–31:02 | | Legal/Ethical Standards Debate | 31:57–36:30 | | Trump world/Melania Announcement | 42:50–44:06 |

---

Conclusion

This hour delivers a scathing, detailed, and at times humorous rundown of the Letitia James indictment, exploring the legal process, the role of political partisanship, and the important principle that everyone — especially those in power — must be subject to the same laws. The hosts argue this development is a “delicious irony,” ask pointed questions about James’s fitness for office, and critique both mainstream media reactions and the complexities of political accountability. The episode ends by highlighting positive news from Melania Trump regarding humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, balancing the serious with the uplifting.

Listeners are left with the show’s core message: Equality before the law must triumph over partisan games, and the elite should not be shielded from the consequences of their actions.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Propane Advertisement Voice]

The US electric grid is approaching a breaking point. As demand soars from data centers and home energy use, our aging infrastructure can't keep up. And the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn [e-mail] When I told people I.

[Leon Neyfak]

Was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked why Benghazi?

[Clay Travis]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Leon Neyfak]

From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Washable Sofas Advertisement Voice]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Leon Neyfak]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Ferguson]

I'm Ben Ferguson.

[Ted Cruz]

And I'm Ted Cruz. Three times a week we do our podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Ben Ferguson]

Nationwide, we have millions of listeners.

[Ted Cruz]

Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, we break down the news and bring you behind the scenes inside the White House, inside the Senate, inside the United States Supreme Court.

[Ben Ferguson]

And we cover the stories that you're not getting anywhere else.

[Ted Cruz]

We arm you with the facts to be able to know and advocate for the truth with your friends and family.

[Ben Ferguson]

So download Verdict with Ted Cruz now, wherever you get your podcast.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome in everybody to the Friday edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. I am in a great mood today, Clay, because I am finally home after almost two and a half weeks of travel. Saw Ginger Spice by the front door. It's not that she's the most important, it's just that she's the fastest on four legs.

[Buck Sexton]

She came up and gave me a.

[Clay Travis]

Big hello this morning. Saw my beautiful wife Carrie, my adorable baby, and I'm finally home. So yay for that. Also, some really good news for the whole world. The truce goes into effect between Israel and Hamas. So that's great news. And President Trump deserves so much credit on this, so much so that even some of his adversaries and enemies are saying, yeah, that's a pretty good one. Tells you, I think all you need to know. But let me tell you what else you need to know. For the show today, we have Jason Meares, the Attorney General of Virginia. And he's going to talk about this other guy who wants to be an attorney General for the state of Virginia, who had some text messages Released that were not good. We'll talk about that. The Virginia race also getting a lot of attention because of the debate. We are going to take you right into this. Allison. Spam Burger, Spanberger, whatever. Abigail. I said Abigail, didn't I?

[Buck Sexton]

I think you said Allison. I. But I think it's. Whatever.

[Clay Travis]

I actually didn't mean to do that. But it's the same.

[Buck Sexton]

The point is nobody knows Spanberger is her last name. You got that part right.

[Clay Travis]

I got that part right. The whole thing is, who are you voting for? I don't know. She's a Democrat, She's a woman. What does she stand for? Nobody really knows. And that's the whole game. Well, they tried that on the debate stage and it didn't work out well for her. One of the worst debate performances I've seen in a. Well, very long time. Not quite Joe Biden level debate performance, but pretty terrible. So we will play some of the lowlights of that for you, and I am looking forward to it. Also, our friend Jack Carr, former Navy seal, author of the Terminal List series, and he's got. He's got the series on Amazon right now, Black Wolf. It's awesome. It's doing great stuff. It's actually worth watching everybody on, like, a lot of stuff you see on the streaming services. So we'll talk to him. But, Clay. Oh, my. Right after we got off the show yesterday, the news came out that New York State's Attorney General, Leticia James has been indicted for mortgage fraud. Uh, here is what she has to say about this. Clip 13. Hit it.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is nothing more than a continuation of the President's desperate weaponization of our justice system. He is forcing federal law enforcement agencies to do his bidding. All because I did my job as a New York State Attorney General. These charges are baseless. And the President's own public statements make clear that his only goal is political retribution at any cost.

[Clay Travis]

Clay, I have a lot of thoughts on this. I'm sure you will, too. I want to start with this one. The charges aren't baseless. I mean, you know, you could say a lot about it. And I actually believe that some of these laws, and specifically mortgage fraud, unless it's systematic and intentional and over a large. I mean, the mortgage fraud laws are. Needs need to be reformed. I will say that. But that doesn't change the fact that she's an Attorney general. Put other people in prison for mortgage fraud, had no problem with it. You used statutes in ways they never had been used before to try to bankrupt Donald Trump. But let's just look at it this way, Clay. She broke the law based on the allegations. Unless the facts are in dispute here, which they don't seem to be, she broke the law.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I would go back to the same thing I said when James Comey was indicted. This was a grand jury. This was a grand jury in a Northern Virginia, I believe, Alexandria as well, courtroom. So what I would ask Letitia James, if she were on the radio with us right now, we played that clip, is why did the grand jury get it wrong? Because you can say, oh, Trump is going after his political adversaries, but it requires that a grand jury agree that there is a legitimate basis for these charges to be brought. And that is not a grand jury of your or mine peers. Buck. This is not where I live in Nashville, Tennessee area. This is not where you live in the Miami, Florida area. This is among the best possible grand jury pools that Letitia James could have. They probably voted as a group. 7030 Biden. 7030 Kamala. And they are looking at all this evidence and they are saying, we think Letitia James broke the law. I will say this. It's another one we got right. This is not a very complicated case because everybody has to fill out these forms. And if you are a lawyer and you are in charge of enforcing the law in one of the biggest states in the country, I think a lot of people out there do not give you the benefit of the doubt if there are parts of the mortgage application that are wrong that are favorable to you. This is not your average guy or gal out there who's running through a mortgage form as fast as they can. When you pass a bar exam and when you are charged with enforcing the law for, again, one of the biggest states in the country, I think that you have a higher standard of expecting to understand what you are filling out when it comes to mortgages. And so I think that she's in a tough spot. And of course, this is a delicious irony, as it were, because she went after Trump for alleged fraud when it came to the loan proceedings that he was able to get relating to his assets and the loans that he had repaid. And so this is based on a property that she owns in Virginia that evidently she has lied about what it's being used for.

[Clay Travis]

Well, yeah, she said that she had two primary residences. And the word primary is a problem for her there. Everybody knows what that means. You can't have two primary residences. And Clay, beyond that. So. So there's the facts of this, which are very Straightforward.

[Propane Advertisement Voice]

And.

[Clay Travis]

And I'm sorry, but if you're the Attorney General of New York, to Clay's point, you should understand the law really better than anybody and should be held to a standard that you've held everyday Americans to. It's a very straightforward question. Have people gone to prison for mortgage fraud like this in New York State with Tish James overseeing the prosecutorial offices that do this because it's all federal? The answer is yes. So if somebody can go to prison for this, she can go to prison for this. And people might say, oh, that's harsh. Well, to that I say it is harsh. But either the elites, and that includes prosecutors, live under the laws they use against us, or we are in a tyranny. My friends, the law either applies to everyone or should apply to no one. And by the way, here she is. This is cut 14, making that very point. Clay, play it.

[Podcast Announcer]

The President of these United States is not above the law, no matter how rich, powerful or politically connected you are. Everyone must play by the same rules. Please sue him for us. Oh, we're going to definitely sue him. We're going to be a real pain in the.

[Clay Travis]

She said everyone has to play by the same rules. Looks like she broke the rules according to this grand jury. She certainly did. I mean, Clay, also, if she didn't do this, this wouldn't be where it is. This is a very straightforward crime. This is, in fact, the crime that they try to get the corrupt congressman in the show the Wire on. And, and they, and they call it at that time, the quote, headshot, because you can go away for years based on mortgage fraud.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. She's facing up to 30 years in prison now, again, which is insane.

[Clay Travis]

Which is insane. And we can all, like, by the way, we can all agree that's insane, but change the laws, everybody. There's these. Some of these federal laws are absurd. It should only be, you know, multiple counts, accounts systemic. Essentially a RICO situation. Like if you did this 50 times, OK, yeah, you should face maybe 30 years. I know she'll only probably get if she's found guilty, six months or something. But again, James Comey, we're seeing a pattern here. Comey sent Martha Stewart to prison for a little fib that didn't matter. Comey told a little fib too. Guess what?

[Buck Sexton]

More significantly, too, I don't know how she remains the New York Attorney General if you are the chief law enforcement officer of a state and you are facing felony charges, I don't understand how you remain in that position. And she's benefited because she's in a blue state. But there have been disbarment proceedings brought against Trump related officials who have law degrees for far less than felony mortgage charges. So my question would be for everybody out there listening on war and all over the state of New York, and this would be a question that I think Kathy Hochul should have to answer. How can you have a chief law enforcement officer of the state of New York who is under federal indictment for mortgage fraud, executing the, executing the office of New York Attorney General. Because, look, buck, she's prosecuting people right now for the crime that she has been indicted for in Virginia. That feels to me to be untenable. I think she's going to have to step down. And I'm surprised that more people aren't already raising this as an issue because again, when you are the chief law enforcement officer official of a state and you are facing felony charges, how in the world can you be expected to be a fair and impartial ruler of the law when you're prosecuting people for felony charges that you yourself face? That seems like a tough putt to say.

[Clay Travis]

It's a huge problem. Huge problem. And there's more irony here. There's a lot of irony in this whole situation. Remember, she brought effectively mortgage fraud charges against now civilly, but to bankruptcy, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of this. To bankrupt the Trump Organization, even though the banks involved with them said it was great, we would do it again, there was no problem here. Look, what are you talking. And her valuations for properties were absurd. I mean, to say that Mar A Lago is worth $16 million or something, this is, this is truly bonkers. Nobody would ever say that. But beyond that, Clay, she's going to. I mentioned Clay Davis, who's actually the guy, a different Clay, the guy from the wire who is prosecuted for mortgage fraud. That's how they get the politician. And what does he do? He appeals to the jury on sort of purely emotional political grounds. He really goes for jury nullification. Here is Leticia James. This is just a quick one. This cut cut 15. She told everybody she was going after Trump for political reasons. Play it.

[Podcast Announcer]

It's important that everyone understand that the days of Donald Trump are coming to an end.

[Clay Travis]

Prosecutors should not be saying things like that. Ok? Correct. Especially when they're bringing active charges against somebody. She played with fire and now she's seeing that can go both ways.

[Buck Sexton]

No doubt. And again, I would love team see if there's been any questioning. Of course, there probably hasn't because the New York media is mostly left wing. But I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about how Letitia James can stay in office given that she has felony charges against her. I mean, judges would typically have to recuse themselves from any sort of judicial proceeding if they were facing felony charges. How can Letitia James stay in the office of New York ag? Now, the answer is politically this might actually be good for right because it elevates her profile. And in the left, if you're fighting Trump, I was laughing when Trump said, hey, we should arrest JB Pritzker. That Gavin Newsom has to be so mad. You know, like Gavin Newsom's like, why won't he say he has to arrest me? You know, like Gavin Newsom was probably throwing his, his wine glass against the wall when he saw that J.B. pritzker and Brandon Johnson are getting threatened with arrest over ice and not him. But in all honesty, I'm going to, you know, I'll tweet this out, but I haven't seen anybody asking that question. It feels like a no brainer that she would have to immediately step down as New York Attorney General. You can't prosecute cases that are similar to the ones that you are facing from a fellow.

[Clay Travis]

Here's, here's where my guess, Clay, I have to look at the New York State laws about this, but my guess is that like a judge recusing himself or herself, there's some degree of, it's like up to the person unless they get maybe pressured from the legislature in New York State that hey, look, you either can step aside or we'll remove you. And I just think that she'll be able to. Again, I'm totally spitballing here, but my sense is she will be able to rely on the anti Trump lunacy of any Democrats. Of course the New York State assembly is Democrat and the governor is a Democrat. So there won't be pressure on her, I think from her own party in New York State to step aside. So unless there's clear, you know, written out law that you must, which I don't think there is, or we would have already heard about it, she'll be able to ride this out in office until the actual trial happens. That's my. Do you agree with that or you.

[Buck Sexton]

See that going a different way? I don't. I mean I'm, I'm working through in my head the legal ethics morass, for lack of a better way to describe it, on who lawyers can represent is enough to make your eyeballs roll back into your head the conflicts and the withdrawals and the mandatory aspects of things.

[Clay Travis]

But do you think she stays in office or not?

[Buck Sexton]

I think that she has to. I'm going to send this tweet out, but I think she has to step down. I don't understand. Well, I understand she'll find it. And again, this is political versus legal, which is two different fronts like we talked about.

[Clay Travis]

So that's what I mean. There's probably a good faith. Oh, you should recuse yourself in the, in the ethics, you know, the written ethics about the attorney general for New York. But my guess is it's not an automatic. And if it's not an automatic, then it relies on pressure from other Democrats who can. I'm sure, you know, she could be fired by the, by the governor. She could be removed from office. I'm sure by the state legislature. There's processes in place usually for things like that. Clay, I don't think they're going to do that. I think they're going to let her fight this thing out and see how it goes with a jury. That's my guess. We'll see.

[Buck Sexton]

Look, and I'm going to tee off here, so get ready for some popcorn if you want to see the reaction, what I'm about to post here in addition to what we've said, obviously. But this may be one of the first weeks in a long time. Buck, have you seen the videos? I was in Tel Aviv where all of the hostage protesters have been gathering for years now. The celebration in the streets of Israel is extraordinary to see with the 20 living hostages brought back. Ali Producer Ali and I got to talk with a dad who's had a son. That was hell. I can't even imagine. For those of you who are parents and grandparents, can you even comprehend what it would be like to have Hamas holding your kids or your grandkids hostage for the past two years? And God willing, on Monday, those surviving hostages are finally going to be brought back home. And that's due to the work of President Trump. That's due to the work of a lot of really good people, Christians, Jews, people of good faith all over the country. And we're so proud to be a part of that. With the international fellowship of Christians and Jews, they do incredible work. They show the world that Israel is not alone. The fellowship between Christians and Jews is stronger in many ways than it ever has been before. You can join that fellowship and the flags of fellowship [e-mail] that is ifcj.org It's a phenomenal time. Thanks to President Trump, thanks to Benjamin Netanyahu and all of the good Christians and Jews in the world out there standing on the side of good. Join the side of good. Fight back against [e-mail] that's ifcj.org making America great again isn't just one man, it's many. The Team 47 podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Washable Sofas Advertisement Voice]

Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, annabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Propane Advertisement Voice]

The U.S. electric grid is approaching a breaking point. As demand soars from data centers and home energy use, our aging infrastructure can't keep up. And the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn [e-mail] When I told people I.

[Leon Neyfak]

Was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked why Benghazi?

[Clay Travis]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Leon Neyfak]

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

[Podcast Announcer]

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

[Leon Neyfak]

Bad faith play, political warfare and frankly, bullshit.

[Clay Travis]

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

[Leon Neyfak]

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy?

[Buck Sexton]

Benghazi is a Rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

[Leon Neyfak]

I'm Leon Neyfak from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Washable Sofas Advertisement Voice]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Buck Sexton]

Yes, that's right. Lock her up.

[Leon Neyfak]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Ferguson]

I'm Ben Ferguson.

[Ted Cruz]

And I'm Ted Cruz. Three times a week, we do our podcast Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Ben Ferguson]

Nationwide, we have millions of listeners.

[Ted Cruz]

Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, we break down the news and bring you behind the scenes inside the White House and inside the Senate, inside the United States Supreme Court.

[Ben Ferguson]

And we cover the stories that you're not getting anywhere else.

[Ted Cruz]

We arm you with the facts to be able to know and advocate for the truth with your friends and family.

[Ben Ferguson]

So download Verdict with Ted Cruz now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back. Ed Clay. TRAVIS BUCK SEXTON SHOW if you're wondering how they talked about Letitia James being indicted by a federal grand jury for mortgage fraud, CNN's Casey, Casey Hunt, Cassie Hunt, I'm not sure how you pronounce it, Casey. Is it Casey? Casey? Casey Hunt said this is no big deal. Everybody commits mortgage fraud. This is. I appreciate her honesty. Maybe you don't want to admit that on the air. Casey. Here's cut 16, Tish James. And again, we're still getting the details. But if it's related to this mortgage issue, I mean, this is something that everyone in America, or many people at least, if you're lucky enough to be able to buy a house in America, you deal with this, right? The federal government doesn't go after all of these people for doing this. Every amazing line. Everybody commits mortgage fraud. I love that she threw in there. If you're lucky enough to have a home. I don't think so. I mean, my mortgage, my mortgage is not that complicated. It was very simple.

[Clay Travis]

Well, there's a very clear box that you check that says, is this for your home to live in or, or something else. And there's also all this stuff that says make sure you read this and that you know that you are basically signing an under oath document for all intents and purposes. You would think an attorney general of a major state would know anyway, free speech is very important to us here on the show. We know it's important to you and it is important to our sponsor, PureTalk. PureTalk stands with the principle that all Americans should be able to speak openly without retribution. You might not always find agreement, but you should have the freedom to express yourself and share different points of view. Pure Talk gets this. Switch your cell phone service to PureTalk and support a business that champions free speech. With PureTalk, you're going to get great 5G nationwide coverage on a reliable and secure network. The price of Pure Talk service only reinforces why you should change. From AT&T Verizon or T Mobile. Monthly plans start at just 25 bucks a month. You'll save a ton of money.

[Ted Cruz]

Money.

[Clay Travis]

Dial pound 250, say clay and buck to switch to our wireless company Pure Talk right now. You'll save an additional 50 off your first month. Dial £250, say Clay and Buck. To switch to Pure Talk today, dial £250, say Clay and Buck. Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. So we had that big news yesterday that we've been discussing on the show so far, and that is the reality of an indictment now, not only of James Comey, which we have discussed, but an indictment of Letitia James. These are people who weaponize the law. And these are people who, assuming the facts that are at issue are accurate, and I haven't heard anyone say they're not broke the law themselves. This is a very important principle. If the people enforcing the law do not have to obey the law, we are living in a tyranny. And it only gets worse. Ok? People who are the ones with the power to separate you from your family, take away your freedom, force you to live in a cell, they better damn sure one be acting in good faith with the application of law, and that includes the application of mercy when applicable, which these individuals, Comey and Letitia James, did not do in various, in various stages, in various ways. And they themselves better be darn sure they're not violating law. Clay, I think this couldn't be any more clear. It is necessary. It is necessary for some of these people who weaponize the law against Trump and people in Trump's orbit to suffer the consequences of their actions when it comes to the law. So that's one part of this that I think is very important. Then you have here Kamala Harris apparently reacting to the Letitia James indictment. This is 18 play it.

[Podcast Announcer]

Look, this may get worse before it gets better. I mean, and by the way, let me just tell you, I was in Atlanta yesterday and said that. And then today I learned that the attorney general of New York just got indicted, even though the prosecutor who first looked at the case, who I'm told is a very conservative Republican, said there was not enough evidence.

[Buck Sexton]

And Then.

[Podcast Announcer]

Trump puts in place incompetent person to make the decision to implement his vengeance agenda.

[Clay Travis]

Clay. She either. She either checked the boxes she wasn't supposed to and didn't say anything about it and didn't change this and got the preferential loan, or she didn't. It's very straightforward forward.

[Buck Sexton]

Not only that, and this is very important because what both Kamala Harris and Letitia James are taking advantage of is most people don't understand how indictments occur. Trump and and or his attorneys, right. The Eastern District, I believe, of Virginia, Lindsey Halligan, the grand jury indicts. So if you don't like the fact that an indictment came down, it's ultimately not the decision of Donald Trump or Lindsay Halligan or anyone else. It's the grand jury. And again, I come back to this and this is where honest media would follow up with all of these statements and say, wait a minute, this is a deep blue jurisdiction. We are already fighting uphill. This is not where I am down on the Florida Panhandle. Buck. This is not Walton County. South Walton county. Beautiful place. I feel very good about the chances that you would get an indictment in in the panhandle of Florida against Letitia James or against James Comey. This is not Williamson County, Tennessee, where I live, which has a 7030 Republican bent, where I would not be surprised. This is deep blue Northern Virginia. They are not inclined to be in favor of Donald Trump. They are not inclined to be in favor of Lindsey Halligan when it comes to either this case or the James Comey case. So this is where it gets hard, I think for they're still trying to argue it. Even James. I treat my body like an amusement park. Jeffrey. Sorry. I treat my body like an amusement park. On on Zoom videos Tubing said, I've got this cut. This is another thing they're saying on cnn. So the. The one chick Casey Hunt was like, everybody commits mortgage fraud, which is a very, very funny take. Well, everybody commits mortgage fraud. Uh, Jeffrey Toobin, who never pointed out Trump facing charges in four different jurisdictions as being a significant cross the Rubicon moment, says, this is unbelievable what has happened. Cut 20. I just don't know how I like Jeffrey Toobinbach. Notwithstanding the masturbation issues, I like Jeffrey Toobin. He is actually a very talented writer. The People vs. O.J. simpson is one of the great true crime trial players.

[Clay Travis]

I don't know if you like Jeffrey Toobin. I think you respect some of his ability, but you don't respect his lack of self control.

[Buck Sexton]

That is that is well said. But what I'm saying is he is not an unintelligent lawyer. So I don't understand. You know, Alan Dershowitz. You might disagree with Alan Dershowitz. He's been on this program quite a lot. He is traditionally a man of the left, but he stands on principle. Sometimes that means he's defending Trump. And even in Martha's Vineyard, that means they won't feed him the. Did you see the videos that went viral over the summer where I think it was a pierogi stand. Wouldn't. Wouldn't feed him, wouldn't sell him pierogies. I think it was. I bet. Who knows, Maybe, maybe Alan Dershowitz is roommate also taught him about the defining finer delicacies of Polish sausage. But here is Jeffrey Toobin reacting and saying, this is just so utterly chilling. Cut 20.

[Clay Travis]

What is so chilling about this case is that ever since Watergate, presidents have imposed on themselves the rule that they do not interfere in criminal prosecutions, much less demand them. But here you have a demanded prosecution and one that the career people in the Eastern District of Virginia thought was a unworthy case.

[Buck Sexton]

That's a really chilling example of how.

[Clay Travis]

The criminal justice system is not supposed to work.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, again, why would Jeffrey Toobin not say the grand jury made this decision? I don't have any problem with Trump saying. I think the first part is this is just another example of lawyers being wrong. And there are a lot of lawyers who are wrong about a lot of cases, trust me. Um, Lindsey Halligan goes in there and gets grand jury indictments against James Comey and against, by the way, James Comey's brother in law in the office. You think he might have had an impact in whether there were charges being brought. And now she gets indictments against Letitia James. It's actually a sign that she's doing a good job. But again, the grand jury puts down the indictments, not the, Not Trump or his attorneys.

[Clay Travis]

I know, but I, you know, you're, you're focusing Clay, on, on the process part of this, which as a lawyer, I understand. What about the. Did she do it or not? Right. No one's saying she didn't do this thing.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

And it's a very straightforward thing.

[Buck Sexton]

You know, we told you on this program that she was going to be indicted because I looked at this evidence and I said, this is not complicated. I said it on the show five months ago or whenever this broke. I said, I think she's going to get indicted.

[Clay Travis]

If Letitia James was caught driving 120 miles an hour in a 35. Okay. And was arrested for that. They can say all the blah, blah, you know, it's Trump and the deep state is whatever they want. Did she do the thing or not? Did she break the law or not? And you're noticing no one is. All they're doing is saying prosecutors, other prosecutors looked at this and, and Trump is so bad and all this other stuff. Did she do the thing that this grand jury apparently thinks it's very possible she did do and which is a very straightforward act. Did she lie on this form to get a preferential loan? I've already said I think that these laws are too harsh and absurd. But this is what the law is. She used it against Trump. She has to sleep in the bed that she has made over and over here. You know, I just, no one's even trying to say she didn't do it.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, that's a good point. That's a great point. And again, we told you the evidence suggests that she did it. And this is not a very complicated case and she will get an opportunity to defend herself in a court of law. And she's entitled to a presumption of innocence like everybody else. She's not entitled to remain the chief law enforcement officer of the state of New York though. And that is where this story in my opinion should go. In addition to the question of whether she's guilty or innocent, I'm telling you, she's procured.

[Clay Travis]

Step down. She's not going to step down. It's not going to happen. No way. No way.

[Buck Sexton]

It shouldn't be even buck. I'm telling you, when I said in the legal ethics courses that we all had to pass, I'm telling you my eyes rolled back into my head because I'm like nobody loves to self, self mythologize more than lawyers. And what are our ethics and what is our duty bound obligation?

[Clay Travis]

And these people have no ethics. She has no ethics. She run around saying I'm going to ruin Donald Trump. She broke some of the most red, bright red line ethics of a prosecutor. She did the show me the man, I'll show you the crime. She is the worst.

[Buck Sexton]

So I don't, I don't disagree with all of that. But I think there has to be something statutorily from a long time ago maybe in New York law. I don't understand how you. I'm telling you man, there's not facing felony charges. I just think people are moron. I just think people are morons and nobody actually thinks the next step, Buck, they disbarred Rudy Giuliani in New York and I think in D.C. for just asking questions in public forums and they bankrupted him. They took away his law license. You know, when Bill Clinton, I mean, let's use a Democrat. They took away Bill Clinton's law license in Arkansas over the impeachment proceedings and lying under oath and all those things.

[Clay Travis]

He also broke. He also very clearly broke the law.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes, agreed. But he wasn't the chief law enforcement officer of Arkansas. So she actually has a higher standard as a lawyer of behavior and of ethics. Look, I'm just saying, if you were.

[Clay Travis]

If I were, I don't know if.

[Buck Sexton]

I'd say that as a, as a, as an ag. I think she does because the President.

[Clay Travis]

Of the United States, of the executive branch and is also a lawyer himself, by the way. We could debate that another time based.

[Buck Sexton]

On the fact that she is the chief law enforcement officer. From a legal perspective. I'm not talking about from like a power perspective, like Pam Bondi as a lawyer has ethical obligations that Donald Trump as a non lawyer does not.

[Ted Cruz]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

And so I look at this and say this is not a tough case. Again, Buck, just think about this. If you were charged right now in the state of New York with mortgage fraud or with lying on a bank form, your immediate response is going to be, how can I be prosecuted by someone who is also facing these same felony charges. She's conflicted and I think the courts would look at this and say, yeah, this is a mess.

[Clay Travis]

But, but counselor, you're stating facts not in evidence here with New York State law. Like there is nothing to make her step down other than it's really gross and obviously she should. And that is nowhere near enough to make her step down. Yeah, all right.

[Buck Sexton]

I have some faith still in the, the legal community. I'm actually going to reach out to a bunch of experts in the law and ethics and see what their take is on this. But I will say here's what I would agree with you on. Much as we said, President Trump faced a two fronted war. There was the legal attack against him, which was its own story, and then there was the political attack against him which was its own, its own story as well. Letitia James politically benefits from these charges. I really do agree with you on that because New York is so crazy and anti Trump in many parts.

[Clay Travis]

So can I give you the process, by the way? The process for removing the Attorney General in New York is at the recommendation. I knew it was going to be something like this, right. Every state, Tennessee has its own version of this. You know, it might be different, might be similar. At the recommendation of the governor, a Democrat and then at the action of the state senate controlled by Democrats, the AG can be removed. That's it.

[Buck Sexton]

I want every defense attorney out there, any of your clients facing felony charges. I want to actually see how this works in the court proceedings. How can Letitia James, who is facing her own felony charges, prosecute your clients who are facing their own felony charges charges? I actually think that's a tough putt for the state of New York to sink. Now maybe she recuses from all criminal prosecutions, but she's still making decisions. She is the chief law enforcement officer of the state of New York. If they indicted Pam Bondi, Buck, I don't think Pam Bondi would be able to stay as as the Attorney General of the United States. Now this is messy, but Tish James has made quite a mess for herself with all the alleged lies that she has told in order to get preferential treatment on her mortgages. You know what's not a mess? The start of our prize picks pick for the week. I gave you four yesterday. I said, hey, I think that Jalen Hurts is going to throw a passing touchdown he did last night. I think that Jackson Dart is going to throw a passing touchdown he did last night. Congratulations by the way to long suffering New York Giants fans. You may have found yourself a quarterback. That means that 1/2 of our prize pick special has already hit. Second half of it is we need Cam Ward to throw at least one passing touchdown and we need Drake May to throw at least one and a half. More than one and a half. So two passing touchdowns if that hits five to one. Cha Ching. Cha Ching. Cha Ching. I'll give you a new pick on Thursday of next week. You can also jump on and play the back half of this. Cam Ward to throw a touchdown and Drake May to throw one and a half touchdowns or more. But already the first half of my brilliant pick has hit. Can we have the second half hit? Fingers crossed you can play along with this. Price picks.com code clay, you can play in California, you can play in Texas, you can play in Florida, you can play in Georgia. 40 plus states great American owned and founded company. My guy Adam, he's a Georgia fraternity guy and he just said you know what, I'm going to build a great American company and he's done a tremendous job of that. Price picks they want to appeal to all of you who just love sports. We got Major League Baseball in action. We got even. The NBA is about to start off in China. You can get hooked up with whatever you want. Prizepix.com Code Clay that is prizepix.com Code clay Geek out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck Podcast a new episode of Every Sunday. Find it on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Washable Sofas Advertisement Voice]

Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces. Anime is the only machine washable Sofa Sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Propane Advertisement Voice]

The U.S. electric grid is approaching a breaking point. As demand soars from data centers and home energy use, our aging infrastructure can't keep up and the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready, powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather. Learn [e-mail] When I told people I.

[Leon Neyfak]

Was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked why Benghazi?

[Clay Travis]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Leon Neyfak]

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

[Podcast Announcer]

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre?

[Leon Neyfak]

Bad faith, political warfare, and frankly, bullshit.

[Clay Travis]

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

[Leon Neyfak]

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy?

[Buck Sexton]

Benghazi is a Rosetta Stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

[Leon Neyfak]

I'm Leon Naifak from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco Benghazi.

[Washable Sofas Advertisement Voice]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Buck Sexton]

Yes, that's right. Lock her up.

[Leon Neyfak]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Ferguson]

I'm Ben Ferguson.

[Ted Cruz]

And I'm Ted Cruz. Three times a week we do our podcast Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Ben Ferguson]

Nationwide, we have millions of listeners.

[Ted Cruz]

Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, we break down the news and bring you behind the scenes inside the White House, inside the Senate, inside the United States Supreme Court.

[Ben Ferguson]

And we cover the stories that you're not getting anywhere else.

[Ted Cruz]

We arm you with the facts to be able to know and advocate for the truth with your friends and family.

[Ben Ferguson]

So download Verdict with Ted Cruz now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. Melania Trump just had a press availability. She has gotten more involved and has been speaking out much more aggressively in the second Trump term. This just happened, she says. Eight Ukrainian children have been reunited with their families after ongoing talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin. This is the first lady cut 32. Just happened a little bit ago.

[Melania Trump]

Much has unfolded since President Putin received my letter last August. He responded in writing, signaling a willingness to engage with me directly and outlining details regarding the Ukrainian children residing in Russia. And since then, President Putin and I have had an open channel of communication regarding the welfare of these children. For the past three months, both sides have participated in several back channel meetings and calls, all in good faith. We have agreed to cooperate with each other for the benefit of all people involved in this war. My representative has been working directly with President Putin's team to ensure the safe reunification of children with their families between Russia and Ukraine. In fact, eight children have been rejoined with their families during the past 24 hours.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, good for Melania Trump. Isn't it interesting all of the things that Trump is doing and now Melania as well, that are just basic, good, human, decent things to do. They're stacking together a lot of good. We'll talk about this and more. In talking about bad, by the way, how about Democrat Governor Abigail Spanberger, candidate? She was awful.

[Leon Neyfak]

Last night when I told people I was making a podcast about Benghazi, nine times out of ten they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes or just asked why Benghazi?

[Clay Travis]

The truth became a web of lies.

[Leon Neyfak]

From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco Benghazi.

[Washable Sofas Advertisement Voice]

What difference at this point does it make?

[Leon Neyfak]

Listen to Fiasco Benghazi. The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Ferguson]

I'm Ben Ferguson.

[Ted Cruz]

And I'm Ted Cruz. Three times a week, we do our podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Ben Ferguson]

Nationwide, we have millions of listeners.

[Ted Cruz]

Every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, we break down the news and bring you behind the scenes inside the White House, inside the Senate, inside the United States Supreme Court.

[Ben Ferguson]

And we cover the stories that you're not getting anywhere else.

[Ted Cruz]

We arm you with the facts to be able to know and. And advocate for the truth with your friends and family.

[Ben Ferguson]

So download Verdict with Ted Cruz now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.