Hour 1 - New Trump Talking Point

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show: Hour 1 - New Trump Talking Point

Release Date: March 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, hosted by Premiere Networks, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into a significant national security mishap involving the inadvertent inclusion of a prominent journalist in a sensitive government group chat. The hosts analyze the implications of this incident, discuss operational security within governmental communications, and explore potential improvements to prevent future breaches. Additionally, they touch upon breaking news related to the Ukraine-Russia ceasefire.

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1. The Signal App Group Chat Incident

a. Background of the Incident

The episode centers around a recent security breach where National Security Adviser Mike Waltz inadvertently added Jeffrey Goldberg, editor of The Atlantic, to an 18-member group chat on the Signal app. Signal, known for its end-to-end encryption and privacy features, is commonly used for secure communications. However, in this case, the inclusion of a journalist in the group chat raised concerns about potential leaks of classified information.

• Buck Sexton (00:30): “Introduced the topic of the group chat involving Mike Waltz and Jeffrey Goldberg.”

b. Implications on Operational Security

Clay Travis and Buck Sexton discuss the severity of the breach, emphasizing that while Signal is a secure platform, the mistake of adding an unauthorized journalist can lead to unintended disclosures. They debate whether this incident constitutes a significant threat to national security or if it’s primarily a political embarrassment.

• Clay Travis (05:18): “From a national security harm perspective, there was no harm. The harm was non- realized... Jeffrey Goldberg did not try to sabotage national security.”

c. Evaluating the Severity

The hosts weigh in on whether the information shared in the group chat was classified and the potential repercussions of such an inclusion. They suggest that since the shared information didn't lead to any realized harm, the incident might be more about political maneuvering than actual security risks.

• Buck Sexton (06:00): “The new talking point is this encryption failure.”

d. Quotes Highlighting the Discussion

• Buck Sexton (07:19): “We just say that by way of disclosure, like, or they’re people that we are friends with... they are patriots.”

• Clay Travis (10:21): “He didn’t try to... …that’s to all of our benefit.”

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2. Operational Security and Communication Tools

a. The Importance of Secure Communication

Clay, drawing from his time at the CIA, underscores the critical nature of operational security (OpSec) in governmental operations. He highlights the challenges of maintaining secure and classified communication among officials who are often geographically dispersed.

• Clay Travis (12:29): “This is where operational security comes in... it’s on everybody to be protecting sensitive information all the time.”

b. Modernizing Government Communication

The discussion extends to the need for updated communication systems tailored to modern methods, especially for younger officials accustomed to instant messaging and group chats. The hosts argue for the development of secure, government-designed communication tools that can prevent such accidental inclusions in the future.

• Buck Sexton (30:20): “Why would a communication like this be taking place in your mind? What does it suggest?”

c. Balancing Privacy and Security

They debate the balance between maintaining personal privacy through apps like Signal and the necessity of safeguarding national security. The conversation touches on how technological advancements require corresponding security measures to adapt to new communication habits.

• Clay Travis (13:40): “First and last line of classification in reality... you determine in all of your communications.”

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3. Listener Interaction: Brett's Call

Listener Brett from Louisiana calls in with questions about the incident, seeking clarity on why Mike Waltz included Jeffrey Goldberg in the group chat and expressing skepticism about Goldberg's presence given his journalistic stance.

• Brett (38:22): “Why did Waltz add Goldberg to this chat and why is he even communicating with this guy?”

a. Hosts' Responses

Clay and Buck acknowledge the confusion surrounding Goldberg's addition to the chat. They speculate it might have been an accidental inclusion or a result of misidentification, given the similarity in names. Clay emphasizes the importance of responsible communication and the ethical duty to prioritize national security over sensationalism.

• Clay Travis (40:46): “If I were in this chat, I would say, hey, guys, you know, I'm going to duck out now.”

• Buck Sexton (41:07): “Why is no one asking the question? Why didn't he immediately just withdraw?”

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4. Breaking News: Ukraine-Russia Ceasefire

Amidst the ongoing discussion about the group chat incident, the hosts briefly address breaking news regarding a ceasefire agreement between Ukraine and Russia. They highlight the potential economic benefits of resuming trade across the Black Sea, such as stabilizing grain exports from Ukraine and reducing energy costs due to the return of Russian oil to the markets.

• Clay Travis (19:29): “The White House says that Ukraine and Russia have agreed to cease fighting in the Black Sea and a halt to strikes on energy facilities.”

• Buck Sexton (20:25): “If we can get trade to resume across this area, it would actually have massive deflationary impacts because Russian oil would come on the markets again and we would be able to get goods cheaper.”

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5. Concluding Thoughts

In wrapping up the episode, Clay and Buck reiterate the importance of transparency and honesty in addressing national security issues. They assert their commitment to keeping their audience informed with accurate information, even when it involves delicate or politically charged topics.

• Buck Sexton (24:02): “Our job is to be honest with all of you about big stories... intelligent, even if it's not the perfect story.”

• Clay Travis (25:35): “And I was in the CIA and faced imprisonment if I messed up these rules. So I know what I'm talking about.”

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Key Takeaways

• Operational Security is Paramount: The accidental inclusion of Jeffrey Goldberg in a sensitive government group chat highlights ongoing challenges in maintaining secure communications within governmental bodies.

• Need for Modern Communication Solutions: As communication methods evolve, so must the security protocols and tools used by national security officials to prevent accidental leaks.

• Balance Between Privacy and Security: While apps like Signal offer privacy, their use in government communications requires stringent oversight to ensure national security isn't compromised.

• Commitment to Transparency: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton emphasize the importance of being forthright with their audience, fostering a well-informed listener base.

• International Implications: The Ukraine-Russia ceasefire has significant economic and geopolitical ramifications, underscoring the interconnectedness of global events and national security.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Clay Travis (05:18): “From a national security harm perspective, there was no harm. The harm was non- realized...”

• Buck Sexton (07:19): “Some of these individuals are friends of ours... they are patriots.”

• Clay Travis (13:40): “You determine in all of your communications, if I'm talking to somebody on the phone...”

• Buck Sexton (29:29): “Just this is how people who are under the age of 50 overwhelmingly communicate.”

• Clay Travis (30:19): “I have a very different opinion. I think our job is to be honest with all of you about big stories...”

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Conclusion

This episode sheds light on the critical issue of operational security within government communications, using the recent Signal app group chat incident as a case study. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton provide insightful analysis on the balance between maintaining secure channels and adapting to modern communication practices. Their commitment to transparency ensures that listeners are well-informed about the complexities surrounding national security and the ever-evolving landscape of information sharing.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

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[Maria Konnikova]

I'm Nate Silver.

[Dr. Laura]

And I'm Maria Konnikova. On our podcast Risky Business, we talk everything from politics to poker and from.

[Maria Konnikova]

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome in Clay Travis, Buck Sexton SHOW Appreciate all of you hanging out with us as we are rolling through the Tuesday edition of the program. I promise that all my texts are going to the right people as we begin with the story of the day. So, you know, by the way, part of me feels like I should just bail on the show right now, Buck, because we have Dr. Laura. Famous Dr. Laura. Is it Slushinger? Is that her last name? I think if I'm not mistaken, many of you know Dr. Laura. She's a relationship expert. Producer Ali sent messages to our wives saying, hey, can you potentially fill out, you know, do a 30 second talk back question for Dr. Laura, relationship expert. I am told that my wife said 30 seconds is not enough and sent in a 2 minute long question. And a part of me feels like, fuck, I should just. I should just wave right now and just go ahead and leave. I have no idea what the question that my wife sent in was, but she needed two minutes instead of 30 seconds. So anyway, that's our two, our only guest today, Dr. Laura, featuring a question from. From my wife Laura and your wife Carrie, like, wanted less, less, had less. She hasn't been married 20 years, but she has written a question correct for Dr. Laura.

[Clay Travis]

She preferred to just write it out. And I will read the question to Dr. Dr. Laura. So both of our wives took different, different pathways on this one, I would just say, though, the reason I know I did not, I had heard of Dr. Laura before. I know she had a very big show for a long time on radio. But it's because sometimes my wife, like right after we got married, for example, you know, Carrie would, I would come home or there'd be dinner on the table and she would say things like, well, you know, Dr. Laura says, and I noticed this trend of whenever Kerry would say Dr. Laura says about a relationship thing, I was like, yeah, that's good. I like that. That's good. So you help.

[Buck Sexton]

You are. You think she gives good advice in general based on your experience?

[Clay Travis]

Excellent advice from my own experience of a wife who's been listening to Dr. Laura for many, many years. Everything that she has picked up from Dr. Laura, including some of the tough love stuff, is, you know, for the audience, is very solid.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I'm excited for that. That is our two. Speaking of tough love. All right, so newest story, if you have not heard, is that as we prepared to bomb the Houthis, which by the way, I think was totally the right decision to try to free up shipping lanes and send a message to Iran, there was a group chat. Based on my research, Buck, you can correct me if I'm wrong on any of these facts. I think there were 18 people involved in a group chat on the Signal app, which is designed to be a high privacy way to basically send text messages outside of doing so from a regular cell phone network or an Apple cell phone network. I would imagine most of you probably are sending text messages. And you, if you have an Apple phone or an Apple device, they're blue. If you're sending outside of the Apple universe, they're green. I don't know. What do you think? Maybe 10% of our audience has downloaded the Signal app. The Signal app, I have it on my phone is sometimes ways that people, I've noticed it in media in particular that want to communicate things, but they don't want to send them on a traditional text message network because they're concerned about somebody else surveilling them. For lack of a better way to.

[Clay Travis]

Describe this, now, it has end to end encryption. It's considered one of the better platforms for privacy and security out there. But there's what's good for your privacy and security versus what a nation state entity can break into and can surveil. Right. So it's, it's, it's one thing for you and me to sit here and say, well, I'm not worried about some Random hacker getting our information. It's a different thing to say, can the Chinese Communist Party's intelligence apparatus get our information? That's the. The question.

[Buck Sexton]

So in this, I believe it was 18 people accidentally. This is unfortunate. It appears National Security Adviser Mike Waltz added Jonah Goldberg, who is the editor of the Atlantic. And in general, probably there are a lot of people you could have added the. The editor of Atlantic to this group chat was not the person that you wanted to add. And now that the price of eggs are back to normal, remember that talking point. And now that the stock market S&P 500 at least is back above where it was on election day, they need a new talking point for Trump is awful.

[Clay Travis]

And.

[Buck Sexton]

And the new talking point is this encryption failure.

[Clay Travis]

Did you say it's Jeffrey Goldberg?

[Buck Sexton]

What did I call him?

[Clay Travis]

I think you said Jonah, who has made jokes about how he is not Jeffrey Goldberg. Jonah Goldberg is a different media Goldberg. I thought you were making a joke there. I was waiting for you to point this out. It's Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic.

[Buck Sexton]

My bad. Not the actor from the big short. Is that the wrong guy?

[Clay Travis]

Jonah Hill?

[Buck Sexton]

Jon Different Clay. Get your Goldberg straight. I am. I am. I am out till lunch here. Already on the start. Anyway, this guy is the editor. He's not a movie star. He is not a fat person who has the same name Jonah that got skinny and then got fat again because his career collapsed when he got too skinny. This is not Jonah Hill. Not Jonah Goldberg. Jeffrey Goldberg, editor at the Atlantic. All right, so he is on this text thread and he decides that he's going to write about the security failure for the Atlantic. Does it yesterday afternoon. About time our show ended. And so it has been the biggest story in the last 24 hours. Okay, so clearly I'm not the intelligence expert here. Let me go to you first, Buck. Like, we know Pete, we know JD we know probably most of the people on this text thread. You certainly know everybody, probably on this text.

[Clay Travis]

Yes. And then these are. Some of these individuals are friends of ours. And we just say that by way of disclosure, like, or they're. They're people that we are friends with, have socialized with. So, you know, I'm going to be as unbiased as I can in this situation. Right. But when I'm talking about someone like Pete or Tulsi, their friends, they're patriots. I know where their heart is. I know what they're trying to do for the country. And so I come at everything from. From that perspective first. But let me just I'll back back into this play for a second. First up, I don't want to help the Democrats in any way in this moment in time by giving them more than they should have in terms of political ammunition. All right, so that's, we are cognizant of that here. It was, as you mentioned, the price of eggs. Oh, the price of eggs. Oh, the stock market. Now it's oh, the national security. Please, they need to calm down, take a step back and recognize that the situation they're in right now as a political entity, the Democrats are in this situation because their party went insane and they deserve exactly what they are going through right now, the sort of excruciating humiliation of Trump doing all the things that he's doing to better the country. Okay? They should like it, but they don't. They find it humiliating. National security and classification, classification is broken down by the expected possible harm that could be done due to unauthorized disclosure. So I think that's an important foundational understanding for this. Right, Clay? So when you talk about confidential, secret, top secret, compartmented, these things exist, they're separated based upon the sensitivity generally of the sources and methods of the collection. Right. So if, if some guy on the street somewhere shares his opinion about whether there's going to be like another Arab Spring revolution, you know, that's going to be confidential maybe because if he told it to people in a public forum, but you don't want his name to be out there too much or, you know, he said it out in public anyway. You go all the way up the chain, if we have some super secret squirrel laser from outer space that could zap all of the information they have in like the Kremlin. Ok, well, that's going to be very high level. The stuff that I have seen so far that they have talked about here, we have to keep in mind the, that Pete and others have said it's not classified. And now here's the thing. I don't think that they would lie about that because it's something, it's something that Jeffrey Goldberg got to be careful. Jeffrey Goldberg could make them look particularly foolish and dishonest on top of everything. If they said, oh, this isn't classified, and then he shares the screenshots, which I'm sure he has. He's already shared some that shows it is clearly classified. This information did not get out before these strikes were taken. So from a national security harm perspective, there was no harm. Let's start with that. There was no harm. And you know, Jeffrey Goldberg I think recognized you are an American. Like, this is important stuff. Do not mess with an impending military strike because you think it'll get more clicks. That is just. That is true. That is fair.

[Buck Sexton]

Right?

[Clay Travis]

He didn't try to. And sometimes journalists really do. Like the New York Times has done things in the past where I've said they are sabotaging American national security. I do not think that that happened here. And I think that that's to all of our benefit. And I'm not sure that it could have happened because I'm not sure the information that was, that could have been shared would have been sensitive enough to change things around. So nothing bad happened here in terms of US national security. The harm was non realized. Whether it could have been realized or not is a question. Whether there was anything classified in there. Ok, Clay, then we get to the next part of this, which is operational security. Opsec. This is a blunder. Obviously, there's no way around that. You don't want a journalist that you don't know is on the text thread getting access to anything that you're talking about as a senior policy official. So this is where Trump has already come out and said there was a lesson learned here and, you know, we're going to tighten things up going forward. This is not the, oh my gosh, Watergate moment that the media is pretending that it is because they want to attack the administration.

[Buck Sexton]

I got still a lot of questions because I'm a regular, you know, sort of not super sophisticated person when it comes to sharing information like this. So let me ask you this question and I think we can probably take some of the questions from, from listeners because you're an expert in this. How much of this buck is about the fact that it's very difficult to get all of these people in one room with when they're presumably traveling all over the world. And shouldn't we have a method of communication given that these guys, for the most part are around our age? People like you and me and a lot of people our age are used to communicating on rapid fashion in these group text chains, whether it's serious things or not serious things. And to me, it, it, it oftentimes I would think would be difficult to get everybody on secure lines so that 18 people all over the world could have a conversation about this. Does that make sense?

[Clay Travis]

This is where. Yeah, absolutely. This is where operational security comes in. And I will say, at my time in the CIA, this was taken incredibly seriously and with good reason because we were doing. We the US Government, maybe we the CIA who knows? We were doing drone strikes, we were doing operational hits on high value target. I mean, you know, we were doing takedowns of cells that were going to try to blow up a whole bunch of planes. I mean, there was. And we knew about that stuff before it was happening. Right. If we're working with a partner nation, if J Sock is going to go in and do a raid, I mean, look at something like the bin Laden raid, for example. So there was a need for operational security at a very high level. We understood that everybody is always their own, really. First and last line of classification in reality. Meaning. I'm not saying that that's terrible, technically true, but meaning you determine in all of your communications, if I'm talking to somebody on the phone and I'm not being careful, I could bleed over into classified talk instantaneously. Right. So it's on everybody to be protecting sensitive information all the time who has access to it. Because there's no such thing as. I'm only. This, I think, goes to your question, Clay. I'm only operating on the high side. I'm only operating.

[Buck Sexton]

Right.

[Clay Travis]

Classified networks. No, you have to be taking phone calls. You have to be calling your wife or your husband and saying, I'm going to be home late tonight, honey. Right. So you're always going to be interacting in the low side, the high side, classified and unclassified world. Did they bleed over a little too much here? That's part of. That's. That's a question that people are fighting over right now. I haven't really seen much to suggest that they did. And I. And again, I think that they. This isn't like they can get away with lying about it because Goldberg would have had the. The screenshots, but I. Do you want. There's more here?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, I want to. I. I just. I have a layman's knowledge here, and I actually just have a lot of questions. I also think there are people out there. If you know that you are on a group chat that you shouldn't be on, shouldn't you leave it or tell people, hey, like, the fact that he stayed on this thing and allowed all these text messages to come in seems suspect to me as well.

[Clay Travis]

Well, ab. Abs. Absolutely. But, you know, journalists. It's interesting now because you realize the journalists are really mostly activists, Clay. And I would say one thing that has always been. It's kind of funny to me is when people will say to me that I'm talking to. You know, we're off the record here, right. And I sit there and I go, I have to say we're on the record for if anyone's talking to me as a human being and they think that they have my confidence, I don't break that. I don't care, you know, government official, person in my private life, you know, whatever. If you think you're talking to me, Buck, as a person that you can trust, you can trust me. But journalists operate in this other space of they get to determine what's in the, you know, what the public needs to know and not. And what we find out is that really it's whether it hurts my party or not. Which is where the Goldberg situation comes in.

[Buck Sexton]

This is why I've never been an anonymous source in any story that I'm aware of. Like, if I'm going to be quoted, I just tell you exactly what I think. For better or worse, I tell you exactly what I think. I don't want to be somebody who's giving an anonymous quote. I don't think I've ever done it. And. But yeah, to your point, let's have more conversations about this. By the way, if you have talkbacks and you have questions for Buck in particular, because he's the expert on a situation like this and I'm kind of fascinated by it, but I'm intrigued to learn more. Look, did you know your cell phone service bill will shrink to about 50 bucks a month when you switch to Pure Talk? And you won't sacrifice any quality at all. In fact, with your with Verizon, AT&T or T Mobile, you can make the switch and immediately save 50 bucks or more. For just 25 bucks a month. You can get unlimited talk, text, 5 gigs of data on America's most dependable 5G network. And just to give you perspective, the average size family of four can then save more than $1,000 a year when they switch to PureTalk. And with PureTalk's US customer service team, you can switch hassle free and in as little as 10 minutes. You can even keep your same phone and your same phone number using your cell phone. Here's how you do it. Dial pound two five zero, say Clay and Buck to make the switch and you'll save an additional 50% off your first month. Again, dial £250, say Clay and Buck. Start saving today. Pure Talk Wireless by Americans for Americans Saving America. One thought at a time.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Dr. Laura]

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[Dr. Laura]

Now that March Madness is upon Us, we're talking bracket strategies and a whole lot more. Join us and listen to Risky business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We got some breaking news. We're going to get back to the discussion of what's being treated as the biggest news story in the country, which is a signal thing. Again, I don't think it's that big of a deal. And that's why we're giving you all of the truth around it and the context you need so that when your live neighbors like endangered national security. Please. It's going to be fine. All right, Libs need to calm down. Need to figure out something other than just crying all the time. But we have breaking news here. I just want to bring you because we're live as you know. Want to bring you up to speed as soon as we go. The White House says that Ukraine and Russia have agreed to cease fighting in the Black Sea and a halt to strikes on energy facilities. This is just breaking news now in the last couple of minutes. And Clay, it is certainly an advance in the right direction here toward a ceasefire, diplomacy and negotiation, no doubt.

[Buck Sexton]

And this would be huge. It already is a big deal because the interdiction and danger that has been involved in trying to use the Black Sea, for instance, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, but Ukraine is one of the largest grain producing countries in the world. If we can get trade to be able to resume across this area, it would actually have massive deflationary impacts because Russian oil would come on the markets again and we would be able to get goods cheaper. So this could be a huge win. Not only, as Trump said to me on Saturday, 2500 people a week are still dying in this war right now. And he would, I think if he gets this thing brought to a close, I think he would deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. I don't think there's any doubt at all in terms of significance to end the biggest war in Europe. And since World War II, when the.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. All right, good news coming out of Ukraine as that continues to move, we hope, towards a resolution and a ceasefire. We are talking about the signal story, the discussion that involved Jeffrey Goldberg, an Atlantic editor and writer and some people, including Brian here. When we make a mistake, your job is not to keep the story alive. Sometimes you should just shut the f up for shade. Brian sending me that email, I have a very different opinion. I think our job is to be honest with all of you about big stories. And sometimes when big stories are being talked about in a way that we think is dishonest, we should explain to you why. When you're getting on Facebook and you're seeing somebody sharing a story that isn't representative of what actually happened, or when you are out and about and somebody in your social circle brings something up, we want to make sure that you are well informed with every possible argument. This is the biggest story of the day so far. And I think we have a responsibility, obligation to talk about it intelligently, even if it's not the perfect story. And so, you know, Brian, I appreciate the email, but my job is to tell you exactly what I think, good or bad. And if you don't like that, there's lots of people who will tell you only what you want to hear every minute of every day. I think it will keep you worse informed, but that's just, I think, a fundamental disagreement that we have about what exactly we're doing here.

[Clay Travis]

So I think that, I think that we always have, you know, there are a few, few things that we have to serve this, serve this audience daily, right? And that's always, you know, we just did an interview recently about crossing 555 stations, you know, no big deal. And Clay and I were talking to people in the media about how, you know, we work for all of you day in and day out. And we want to bring you the best information we can. So if you listen to this show for an hour, you're going to know everything that's going on. And if you give us three hours, we're hoping to, you know, give you a tremendous analysis and fun and tell stories and. Right. Give you a fully immersive experience. But one of the things, Clay, that I think we do. Sorry, I was, I was weaving there a little bit, guys. But, you know, as one does, one of the things that we do is I never want anyone who listens to this show to feel like, oh, but if I'm at a, if I'm at a party or I'm at. I'm at the office or wherever and someone challenges me on this issue, I'm not ready for it. Yeah. So I don't want you to be in a situation where you're annoying sister in law or, you know, you're, you're, you know, Bob from accounting or, you know, Sally from, from HR is like, did you see the big national security mess up? Whatever? And you go, well, I don't, I don't know. I've told. We're telling you everything you need to know about it. These are patriots. They didn't mean any harm. There was no harm done. Better practices next time. Sometimes mistakes happen. They will adjust, and it's not that big a deal.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, so that's well said, I think.

[Clay Travis]

And I was in the CIA and faced imprisonment if I messed up these rules. So I know what I'm talking about.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, so my thoughts. Couple of things as a layman here. One, why do we not have our own version of a signal app that could. And I want you to explain this to me because I've been doing reading because I want to know more about it. It's hard to get everybody in a secure location when you've got people traveling all over the world. And I think this is important. And you want to make sure that everyone is well informed with what the United States government is doing so that Tulsi Gabbard doesn't turn on the television and find out on Fox News that we have attacked the Houthis. Right. And maybe she's in Yemen or wherever the heck she might be. And Pete Hegseth right now, I know because the pictures are out. Is touring the Pacific and these 18 people are in six different time zones. And actually, the easiest way sometimes to communicate is text message. So point one, shouldn't we have a designed system that is forward Thinking from a security perspective for younger people who are used to communicating in this manner. And by the way, take it back 100 years or 80 years or whatever it was, and I'm sure people were like, we can never communicate on the telephone. Any secret knowledge. Oh, my goodness, this is crazy. And then everybody who grew up using the telephone expects for the devices to be created that are able to be used in this method. Step one, step two, and this is just a layman question, this guy Goldberg, I think he should have had to. I mean, it. It feels to me like a big part of this story is his dishonesty and also staying involved in a conversation that he was aware he was never intended to be tagged on, and yet he stayed in there and continued to receive these messages. In your own lives, if you were a part of a group text chain that you were not intended to be on, which I bet if you're under the age of 50, is something that has happened to almost everybody out there at some point in time. Certainly if you're under the age of 40, wouldn't you just leave the group chat? Either publicly say, hey, wrong guy, or just leave on your own volition? The fact that he stayed in there and kept receiving all of these messages makes me think that his behavior was quite nefarious, to say nothing of waiting to drop the story like he did.

[Clay Travis]

Well, this is where journalists like to have it both ways, right? They're patriots and they care about the country, too. When I say journalists, I mean the, the journos, right? This guy is an activist. He's a left wing Democrat. This has been clear for a long time. He was the one who had his fingerprints all over the Trump suckers and losers thing from Arlington Cemetery, which I never believed for one second. You know, I'm not saying Trump is perfect, but Trump does not think people who gave their lives fighting for the military are losers. That was just total. I mean, I can't even say on radio what it was. It's total nonsense. But, Clay, what they'll say is, well, I have an obligation as a journalist. I need to know whatever I can find out about the upper echelons of government and, you know, the sharing of information and everything else that's going on there. You know, I. Look, if I were on this and I'm in text contact with some of these people, to be clear, right? I mean, this is the thing. This is what happens when you have people from the media and that you've known for many years who are now running massive departments of the government clan. I know these people. I know them personally.

[Buck Sexton]

Just this is how people who are under the age of 50 overwhelmingly communicate. We don't get on phones and have long form conversations. Most of our communications is via text.

[Clay Travis]

Right. But what I'm, what I'm, you know, shining a spotlight on is, is just that, you know, these, these are individuals who are doing the best practices that they can to speak quickly to each other about info, about things that matter. And if I were on, if I felt like I was in, you know, in the room when I shouldn't be in the room, so to speak, in this case the chat room, I'd be like, hey, guys, hey, guys, I'm out. Because I wouldn't want them as senior government officials who've clearly made, you know, I'm not a nefarious foreign actor. Right. I'm not. I'm not trying to run information ops for Al Jazeera over here. If I'm in this, I would say, hey, guys, you know, I'm going to duck out now. I know you got to talk about stuff because I'm an American and this is the Secretary of Defense and the Director of National Intelligence.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

And, you know, my desire to get a scoop is infinitely less important to me than, especially we're talking about something like a military strike than my desire to protect US national security secrets. I mean, look, I'll tell you, I mean, I had an example of this, Clay, when the Benghazi story broke on tv. I was actually on air at the Blaze when Benghazi broke initially, and we went live for hours on it. I had to sit there and be like, I don't know what's going. I knew exactly what had happened in terms of, like, a lot of stuff that came out. I'll just put it that way. And I had to just sit there and be like, no. Because I had had classified access before and it wasn't my place to blow any. So I just sat there and was just as things were coming on the news where I'm like, oh, look at that. Look at that. I could have been, oh, let me tell you what's really going on here and really what the operations are. And, you know, hey, you guys know I was in CTC in the CIA, and here's no, nothing, because my obligation to my, to my clearance and to my country matters a heck of a lot more than breaking the story and getting some attention. And this is a different thing in this era where we have a lot of people that work in public facing jobs who have had access to high level national security information. Right. It's on you as an American to always put country first over job. You know, I mean, like, like role in. I'm not talking about job in the Pentagon. I mean job in like a media organization. I could have been out there telling everybody stuff about Benghazi that would have made me the first guy. And they're like, oh, what's the people? Like, what's the annex? And there's all this stuff. And I'm like, I have no idea, guys. I had to sit there and be like, I don't know. And it was early in my career and I couldn't make a big thing of it. But I knew what those guys, the risk that they had taken by being there. I didn't know what the follow on operations were going to be. I didn't know what was blown. I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't know anything. And so I just sat there and had to just read information as it came across the news wire like everybody else. And I'm saying, you know, Jeffrey Goldberg is like, oh, no, I need to get the information, as much of it as I can, and then I'll make the determination about this. Is that in the best interest of national security, you don't think you want to give these guys a heads up that, hey, I'm not supposed to be on this chat? I mean, to your point, yeah, what really matters to him?

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, my initial reaction when I'm on a group chat that I don't think I should be on is, hey, I want to get out. First of all, a lot of you probably get dragged into group chats if you're a mom or a dad. Little league group chats, gymnastics group chats, dance team group chat. Like, oh my God, do I need to be on this? Right? You might want to, you might want to get out. But if you're dragged into something that, you know, you have no business seeing, I, I just, it feels like to me like you would immediately withdraw and, and not stay there. Second part, and I want to get your answer on this when we come back in the next. Do we need to update communication capabilities and standards for people involved in defense industries? Because I was, I was actually just looking at Elon Musk and he was talking about just, the government is so far behind in the tech that often it has relative to what other private sector organizations might have. In other words, whatever you do for a living, if you're a, if you're in Defense industries or something like that. I'm sure they have high tech communications capabilities. How would these 18 people have been able to talk if they're in four or five different time zones all around the world? How can they communicate easily?

[Clay Travis]

Well, we have high, I mean we have this, we have high side. I mean we have classified channels.

[Buck Sexton]

I guess my question for you, we come back, why would this conversation exist in the way that it does?

[Clay Travis]

There are, there are the equivalent of, let's say, let's say there's the equivalent of, of text communication within the national security sphere that is real time and that you can, it is classified. Classified, like you can talk about what you need to talk about when we come back.

[Buck Sexton]

Then why would a communication like this be taking place in your mind? What does it suggest? Again, I think the ultimate result here is that nothing, thankfully very significant happened other than the embarrassment. And I think primarily this is being played because it is relatively insignificant in terms of its impact in this situation. More for humor than anything else. And I think it's probably a 24 hour story that will go away, but I do think it's, it's worth talking about what exactly should happen to ensure that something like this doesn't become a bigger story in the years ahead. Look, you need energy to thrive during the course of the day and that's why you need chalk. We were talking with our buddy Seaton yesterday. Buck got back in shape to a large extent thanks to being able to use chalk. Male vitality stack, man. It gives you more energy. It can increase overall your testosterone by 20% in just three months time. They also have a female vitality stack. Use my name, Clay, and you'll get the best possible deal on any subscription for life. If you're dragging a little bit, you're sitting around here and you're thinking, boy, big weekend coming up. Spring has sprung in many parts of the country. Maybe you're going to be out and about more than you ordinarily have. Dinners, kid events, grandkid events. Get hooked up right now with chalk. The male vitality stack. 20% testosterone reach levels increase in just three months time. Great offer. Our buddy Seaton. You're gonna love this website. Check it out. Choq.com that's choq.com My name Clay. Massive discount on any subscription for life. Making America great again isn't just one man, it's many. The Team Team 47 podcast, Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your Podcasts.

[Maria Konnikova]

I'm Nate Silver.

[Dr. Laura]

And I'm Maria Konnikova. We're both journalists and professional poker players. And on our podcast Risky Business, we talk about taking risks in everything from poker to politics.

[Maria Konnikova]

And we talk about betting. From betting on elections to betting on your favorite basketball team. We've learned a lot about taking risks through our own research and sometimes even our own bets. And we share what we've learned with you.

[Dr. Laura]

Are you still doing sports betting? I had no idea that you'd wagered over a million dollars for your research.

[Maria Konnikova]

I bet almost the entirety of the 20, 22, 23 NBA season, all the regular season and about half the playoffs. And I learned that, I mean, it's probably what I should have expected, but I learned that it's pretty hard. I went on a huge heater at the start of the NBA season where it was up like 70,000 bucks. I'm like, man, I'm really good at the sports betting stuff. But then, but then things change.

[Dr. Laura]

Now that March Madness is upon us, we're talking bracket strategies and a whole lot more. Join us and listen to Risky business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

All right, welcome back into. Clay and Buck want to tell you all, make sure you're drinking crack of coffee because it celebrates American history. It's a company that you are all building. We appreciate each and every one of you who has tried the coffee so far. To our subscribers, we love you. Thank you for becoming Crockett subscribers. And as a little token of our appreciation, you can get still a signed copy of Clay's American Playbook if you use code book. Look, we're giving 10% of the profits at the Towers Foundation. Couple of weeks, we're going to have a whole new product. It's exciting, new, different than what a lot of you are thinking. It's going to be delicious. You're going to love it. And so please try this coffee out and support what we're doing. We got people now who are full time Crockett employees, all good, conservative patriots. So put your money where your heart is on this one and go to crockett coffee.com. it's also delicious coffee. I drink it every day. I'm gonna go get some in a few minutes. Let's take some calls here. Brett in Louisiana. What's going on, Brett?

[Buck Sexton]

Hey, Clay. Buck, thanks for taking my call. Great job. Thank you. My questions are why did Waltz add.

[Clay Travis]

Goldberg to this chat and why is.

[Buck Sexton]

He even communicating with this guy?

[Clay Travis]

And what else has he sent to Goldberg? I think that's an excellent. I think that's an excellent question, Brett. Now, let me say that President Trump is aware of the situation and has said that Mike Waltz learned a lesson. I believe Mike Waltz is reported as the guy who added Goldberg. Now, not to, not to bring this up again, Clay, but he may have had more than one. You know, Clay said. Clay said Jonah, Jeffrey. You know, we're definitely getting different names in here. Mike might have had more than one Goldberg on his phone. It. Or it might have also just been the first initial of the name, which is what happens in a lot of these, you know, AI enabled chat apps and things now where, you know, if I type in a C on my phone, it's probably going to show up as Clay because. Oh, actually, no, it'll show up as Carrie. Sorry, sorry. It'll show up as my wife. I was trying to pick one that was.

[Buck Sexton]

You're blowing yourself up here, Buck.

[Clay Travis]

Well, you know, it'll show up as Care Bear, but anyway, I will. The point is that it might have been an accident in that regard. The other question, though, that Brett gets to is, well, why would Jonah Goldberg. I'm sorry, Jeffrey. Jeffrey Goldberg. Why would Jeffrey see Clay? I blame you for this. Why would Jeffrey Goldberg be on Mike Waltz's contact list? I don't have regime media names in my phone. If I went through my email because sometimes they'll ask me for a comment or something and I don't talk to Democrat regime media as a rule. I just, I mean, Clay likes to, you know, Clay likes to mock them and humiliate them. I just ignore them. Generally. I'd write fair, I think fair. When they come after you.

[Buck Sexton]

I do enjoy. Yes, yes, I do.

[Clay Travis]

Clay likes to mix it up with them. I just kind of, you know, ignore them. But I don't have a good answer for that. You know, I know Mike Waltz a bit. He's a good guy. He's a patriot. He served his country SF many, many years. Maybe he'll give some kind of an answer to that. But I know people, Clay, are like, why would you be talking to somebody who's trying to destroy Trump? It's a fair question.

[Buck Sexton]

Unintentional seems to be clearly the answer. Maybe there was somebody else again on.

[Clay Travis]

But why is he in his contact list? I don't have. I don't have Jeffrey Goldberg in my contact list.

[Buck Sexton]

Same here. I don't either. He was a congressman before. Maybe there was some story that Goldberg. I don't know I'm just. I'm just working through why that would have happened. You know, it would have been far.

[Clay Travis]

Like, if you told me that you tried to send me something and it went to Paul Krugman instead, I'd be like, clay, why is Paul Krugman in your contact list?

[Buck Sexton]

My big takeaway here is if I had been accidentally added to this Group 2 chat, which could have happened if you had been absolute accidentally added to this group chat, we would have immediately said, hey, guys, don't think I'm supposed to be on here. Why is no one asking the question? Why didn't he immediately just withdraw?

[F]

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[Dr. Laura]

And I'm Maria Konnikova. On our podcast Risky Business, we we talk everything from politics to poker and.

[Maria Konnikova]

From betting on elections to betting on your favorite basketball team. Sports bettors need a bit more street smarts, because there's this whole second side to sports betting of how do you actually. How do you get your money down good if people think that you're a winning better. And now that March Madness is upon us, we're talking bracket strategies, odds, how to maybe actually win your office pool. You can listen to Risk Cubist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.