Hour 1 - Obama Won't Be Indicted

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – "Obama Won't Be Indicted" (Hour 1, Released August 5, 2025)

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, hosted by iHeartPodcasts, explores significant news, political developments, and current events with a blend of intelligence and humor. In the August 5, 2025, episode titled "Obama Won't Be Indicted," Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the latest updates surrounding the Russia collusion investigation, particularly focusing on the potential indictment of former Obama administration officials.

Introduction to the Grand Jury Probe

Clay Travis opens the discussion ([00:00]) by highlighting a critical development: the Department of Justice (DOJ) has referred a list of names related to the Russia collusion investigation, which was previously perceived as a "soft coup" attempt against Donald Trump. This referral has now led to the formation of a grand jury tasked with probing Obama-era officials involved in the investigation.

Notable Quote:

“Tuesday edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show kicks off right now and we've got a lot to discuss, including the referral to the DOJ of those names from the Russia collusion soft coup attempt of years past and now the impaneling of a grand jury.” ([00:00])

Legal Framework and Challenges

Buck Sexton emphasizes the significance of the grand jury's location ([03:18]). He posits that if the grand jury is empaneled in Washington, D.C., the likelihood of indicting Obama administration figures is exceedingly low due to perceived political biases.

Notable Quote:

“If they did a D.C. based grand jury, I think the odds of anybody inside of Obama's administration getting indicted for anything related to Russia collusion are virtually zero.” ([03:18])

Clay Travis concurs, asserting that former President Obama is unlikely to face charges due to presidential immunity. He firmly states that Obama will be protected similarly to how Trump was shielded.

Notable Quote:

“Obama is going to be protected by presidential immunity the same way that Trump was protected by presidential immunity.” ([06:49])

They discuss the complexities of pursuing charges such as conspiracy, highlighting the difficulties in linking multiple separate incidents into a single legal case.

Notable Quote:

“I think connecting all of those issues to argue it's one grand conspiracy is actually a challenging legal proposition.” ([09:26])

Statute of Limitations and Potential Charges

Buck Sexton and Clay Travis explore the hurdles posed by the statute of limitations, especially concerning potential charges like RICO and wire fraud. They agree that the temporal gaps make it improbable to secure convictions based solely on these statutes.

Notable Quote:

“The statute of limitations is going to be a problem once they get into court because they don't believe that the recent acts clause in the conspiracy will hold up.” ([21:01])

Caller Insights and Expert Opinions

Caller Mike from North Carolina, a seasoned law enforcement veteran, shares his perspective ([20:57]). He underscores the challenges prosecutors face, particularly the difficulty in proving perjury and the limitations imposed by the statute of limitations. Mike remains skeptical about the likelihood of securing significant charges against Obama administration officials.

Notable Quote:

“RICO is going to be lacking the myriad of minor crimes. Minor, but the lesser crimes and wire fraud is probably going to get a real tough one to do too.” ([21:01])

Buck Sexton further elaborates on the improbability of mounting a successful perjury case against high-profile bureaucrats, comparing it to past cases like that of Bill Clinton.

Notable Quote:

“But the way that he would answer questions, he said, you know, there is no relationship there... The only reason, by the way, Bill Clinton got caught for perjury... was because Monica Lewinsky saved the dress.” ([22:48])

Political Accountability and Public Perception

The hosts discuss the potential for public backlash should indictments occur, questioning how major news outlets and their audiences might react to such developments.

Notable Quote:

“What is the average MSNBC viewer or New York Times reader going to think if suddenly indictments come down for lies associated with Russia collusion?” ([30:26])

Clay Travis emphasizes the importance of public awareness and political accountability, even in the absence of criminal convictions.

Notable Quote:

“The more people know how gross and underhanded these efforts were, it stays with them longer.” ([28:42])

Subpoenas and Related Legal Matters

Towards the end of the episode, Clay Travis briefly touches upon recent subpoenas related to the Epstein case issued by James Comer, indicating ongoing legal entanglements and their political ramifications ([37:46]).

Conclusion and Future Outlook

Clay Travis and Buck Sexton conclude by reiterating the complexities of the legal proceedings against former Obama officials. They emphasize that while criminal indictments are unlikely, fostering public understanding and political accountability remains crucial.

Notable Quote:

“This is the political accountability part of it... The more people know how gross and underhanded these efforts were, it stays with them longer.” ([28:42])

Summary of Key Points

• Grand Jury Formation: A grand jury has been empaneled to investigate Obama-era officials involved in the Russia collusion investigation.
• Location Matters: The location of the grand jury (D.C. vs. Florida) is critical in determining the likelihood of indictments.
• Statute of Limitations: Legal challenges, including the statute of limitations, make it difficult to prosecute past actions.
• Presidential Immunity: Former President Obama is unlikely to face criminal charges due to presidential immunity protections.
• Perjury and Conspiracy Charges: Proving perjury and linking separate incidents into a single conspiracy poses significant legal hurdles.
• Public and Political Reactions: Potential indictments could lead to varied public responses, with possible perceptions of illegitimacy from certain audiences.
• Ongoing Legal Cases: Subpoenas in related cases, such as the Epstein investigation, continue to unfold, adding layers to the political landscape.

Overall, this episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the potential legal actions against former Obama officials within the context of the Russia collusion investigation, highlighting the legal challenges, political implications, and public perceptions involved.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

This is an iHeart podcast. Welcome everybody. Tuesday edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show kicks off right now and we've got a lot to discuss, including the referral to the DOJ of those names from the Russia collusion soft coup attempt of years past and now the impaneling of a grand jury. A grand jury is now in the mix on this. We shall give you the latest on it and where we think this is going. Prosecutors are starting that grand jury probe into the Obama era officials of the Russia collusion investigation. Interesting note, Clay. You know I talked to our friend Miranda Devine on also our friend legitimately, these are friends of ours are also our friend Will Kane show yesterday. Were you on Jesse last night? Was that right? Where'd I see you were somewhere. You, Hann Kennedy, you were on someone's show last night.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh God, I don't even.

[Clay Travis]

I don't know one of them.

[Buck Sexton]

I was on. I was on what? I don't know. I was on Will's show too.

[Clay Travis]

Oh, okay. Will show. I saw a clip. Okay. There we go. Yeah. So, yeah. But point being, we're talking about this. Clay is. Clay is omnipresent. You know what I mean? Those jackets that he wears, you guys have demanded more.

[Buck Sexton]

I'm on Fox News has got me basically on every day somewhere. So when you asked me, I was like, I couldn't even remember there for a sec. Where on America's Newsroom this morning.

[Clay Travis]

That's okay. I saw you there and then you're real show. My point being he's talking about the Pam Bondi stuff. I'm talking about the Pam Bondi stuff. Everybody's talking about what's going to happen here in this Russia era Russia collusion investigation. And part of it is I spoke to Miranda Devine on Will's show and she said something I thought was interesting and maybe we should ping Miranda to come talk to us more about this because she raised this and I hadn't heard this before. So I'm just putting this out there. You know, that's the thing. You get to do a hit with some, some great people. You know, a hit is a r shorthand for TV appearance, if anyone's wondering. And, and you sometimes will even learn things in the process. She said, Clay, that the statute of limitations issues that clearly would come up in some cases because five years, five years. When you're talking about something happened 10 years ago, there's not a tough call. Ten year statute of limitations also applies to some things. Federal crimes that would have run. But if the conspiracy was continued and there was cover up and it even endured during some of the Trump years and beyond, perhaps into the Biden years, that would. Now, I hadn't heard this before, but she, she indicated this on tv, that that could be a part of all of this. Because short of that, I look at this, Clay, and I say I don't understand what the statutory framework would be for the charges yet. I'm not a lawyer, but Clay's a lawyer. We're going to get into this. I think the grand jury probe into Obama officials is an interesting step. I am still not convinced it is likely that any of them will face, even with a grand jury looking at them, criminal charges. But I'm certainly open to. And no, I could be wrong. What do you see? Given where this is right now, there.

[Buck Sexton]

Are so many different angles that you can analyze this report from. The one that I think is paramount and matters more than anything else is where is the grand jury going to be empaneled? And I haven't heard this widely discussed because to me it's the only thing that matters. Because if they did a D.C. based grand jury, I think the odds of anybody inside of Obama's administration getting indicted for anything related to Russia collusion are virtually zero. And so I think you would have to find a hook to move the grand jury out of D.C. and put it somewhere else. Now, what I've heard being discussed is because of the Mar A Lago raid, maybe the grand jury is going to be empaneled in somewhere in South Florida as the Mar A Lago case was. Here is the challenge with that.

[Clay Travis]

Do you think I could put on like one of those glasses with mustache outfits and be like, hello, fellow citizens, put me on this grand jury?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, it would be funny because in theory you could be impaneled as a South Florida resident on one of these grand juries. But I imagine that you would be stricken from the jury pool quite quickly.

[Clay Travis]

I would imagine so, too. Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

But here is the challenge. So, one, everything else, all I think that matters is where's the grand jury located. Two, is there a, is the grand jury, if it were located in Florida, is that a valid grand jury? And that's where you try to argue, oh, this is all part of one grand conspiracy to get Trump and it includes even the Mar A Lago investigation and raid from the FBI. I would imagine that almost immediately you would see where the grand jury is located as a major part of any defense that was offered. And remember, this became an issue because initially, Jack Smith tried to empanel the Florida classified documents case in D.C. and then up at the last moment and recognized that he had a jurisdiction issue, a venue issue, and he suddenly moved it to South Florida. This is me being a legal nerd and telling you where this case is headed. Part of me wonders, Buck, whether this is partly just a exercise in following through on promises. And if the jury declines to indict politically, the Trump team can just throw up their hands and say, Democrats won't indict Democrats for committing crimes. We did everything we could in this case. And then they think they win politically because it retains the issue here, but they did everything they could do. From a legal process perspective, does that make sense? And by the way, we can take calls on this, because I know it's complicated, but I think you've got the number one question that has to be resolved is where is this grand jury going to be? And for those of you out there that don't know, usually indictments are handed out by a grand jury. And if you have a grand jury in D.C. that is 96% or 95% or whatever the heck the percentage is, maybe 97% inclined to favor Democrats. I don't believe they're going to indict Hillary or former Obama officials. Continue.

[Clay Travis]

If it's in D.C. there's, there's no, there's, I would say, no chance. I mean, which is when, like 99%.

[Buck Sexton]

No, it's just a political move because they can say, we took this to the grand jury, but the D.C. grand jury would not indict. Remember, I give credit to the president because he's also said this, but we were the first show that I heard even talking about it. Obama is going to be protected by presidential immunity the same way that Trump was protected by presidential immunity. And there are people out there that will tell you that that's not true. And maybe you listen to some of them. I believe they are wrong. And I believe they are getting you fired up with the idea of, oh, Obama's gonna face charges. Obama, I would be stunned beyond belief if he faced charges. And if he did, he would immediately defend himself by saying, hey, the same Supreme Court precedent that applied for Trump related to 2020 also applies for me.

[Clay Travis]

There's no chance in my mind, zero. Obama's going to face any. And I'm just being honest with all of you. I don't think anybody should think that that's going to happen. It's not. It's just not going to happen. He has Immunity while he's president and trying to prove something after. And people can write in, well, what if we find something? Well, you know, what if a million different things you could say. But the reality is that's not, I think going to now showing, doing what Tulsi Gabbard has done and showing the way that the Obama officials were clearly being disingenuous and dishonest in all of this is important for people to see. The other problem is with a lot of this stuff you're going to run into anytime it's an interpretation of analysis, trying to say it's criminal is going.

[Buck Sexton]

To be very hard.

[Clay Travis]

Even if anybody should have known, I mean, you saw this with the FISA warrants they ran against Carter, against Papadopoulos, Carter Page, FBI stuff. They can say, well, maybe it wasn't a lock, but we thought that this was good enough, that we should use our authority for the following reasons. Now there was that one guy who lied. Now we're going back into the. This is a thing I've been covering for a decade, right? So I gotta go back in the memory banks here. There was that lawyer who lied and changed evidence so that they could get DEFISA on. I think it was Carter Page and removed that he had been in good standing with the intelligence community previously, something along those lines. He was prosecuted and nothing actually ended up happening to him. So just remember, I mean, he did not get punished at all. So it's. This is a challenge. And it was in D.C. this is the point. It's in D.C. to Clay's point, if they bring it in South Florida or somewhere else, then things can get a little bit spicier. That could be a little bit more interesting.

[Buck Sexton]

Here is another legal weeds analysis. I question whether all of these things are connected. So in order to have a conspiracy and argue that it's an ongoing conspiracy, I actually think there are different crimes and I think they have beginning and end dates. I think that what happened with Russia is one crime, right? The Russia collusion, the hoax, everything associated with that. And it lasted for several years. And I think that is one thing. I actually think that's different than the Mar a Lago raid and also the 2020 investigations and all those things. So I think connecting all of those issues to argue it's one grand conspiracy is actually a challenging legal proposition. Because usually, and I'll just give you an example, if you and I buck, engaged in a conspiracy to rob a bank and then the bank robbery ended up happening one day, and that was a finite finished scenario. And then we engaged in an additional conspiracy and we decided to steal a boat. I would argue that those are, you know, hopefully we don't do either of those things, but I would argue that those are two distinct crimes. And our partnership, even though we're involved in the same thing, would not necessarily be a conspiracy because they have an open and shut closed date. I think that's going to be a challenge to argue that all of this is interconnected, continuous matters, because that would then give the, that that's the hook that allows the jurisdiction to be outside of DC because otherwise I think most people would say, yeah, the Russia collusion case should be D.C. and, and by the way, I think the 2020 investigation into the election would be D.C. but mar a Lago is different. So I see those as distinct.

[Clay Travis]

I also think part of the frustration, and that's why I believe it's necessary for us to all set our expectations within what is likely. Like I said, I could. Pam Bondi, there could be an announcement, there could be a press conference in a couple of, in a couple of weeks, whenever, hey, you know this guy, that guy who worked for Obama is facing falling charges. I'm not saying that's impossible or not on the table. I think it's highly unlikely. But I think that part of the frustration and it's unlikely for procedural reasons. Right. I don't, I don't need anyone to email me and remind me I lived, eat, ate, rather ate and breathed Russia, collusion, conspiracy for years of my life, are doing a solo radio show. Before I teamed up with Clay, this was we, day in and day out, they were spying, they lied, there's nothing with Rush. So trust me, I'm well aware of all the nasty and evil things they did. But we have a system and within that legal system, there are some challenges to going after these individuals even knowing what they did. Now, I think part of the frustration on this, Clay, is we've all seen that when the shoe is on the other foot and when Democrats are in a position to do so, whether it's the Mar A Lago raid or the FISA warrants or the special counsels or the, or the impeachments or the four criminal prosecutions or all the. They abused their authority in bad faith as a political weapon against their opponents. And the real question for maga, I think in this moment, for everybody who supports the President, is do we play within this system as boy Scouts, no offense, Boy scouts, or do the brass knuckles come out in what we can justify, what we can get away with justifying we do through the system instead of operating in the best possible faith within the system. I think that's a real discussion or a real thought process that's going on here. Meaning, you know, do you bring a charge even if you know you can't prove it because you're going to make them lawyer up and mess them up and the process is the punishment? That remains to be seen.

[Buck Sexton]

I think that's important, too, because you could get indictments, and then the indictments are. The underlying crimes are going to be litigated for years. Remember, they got indictments on all the Mar A Lago raids. And then before Trump won reelection, the judge down there tossed that entire case, I believe, In July of 2024, if I remember correctly. So my concern would be, just because you get an indictment doesn't mean that you've got a valid upstanding going to with withstand all of the criminal challenges that will be coming. So this is complicated. We'll take calls. We're not talking about what should necessarily happen as much as the challenges that have to be followed in order to put something in place. I think beyond a shadow of a doubt, they have to do it in Florida if they're going to even hope to get an indictment.

[Clay Travis]

And I also think that as all this unfolds, I get it. A lot of people want an eye for an eye attitude now that Trump and his team runs the system. It's an, you know, we used to, I'll just point this out. Conservatives, Clay used to be, we don't want the other side to get canceled. We just don't want anyone to be canceled. You know what? That didn't work until all of a sudden you had the Bud Light effect. Until you had people that were suffering consequences for their bad actions. They kept doing it and doing it and doing it. An eye for an eye within the system. As long as it's within the system and you can justify it, I think some people want to see that. And that's where a lot of the frustration comes. And I'm aware of that. All right, look, every day, thousands of women across our nation are contending with an unplanned pregnancy with so few options in front of them. At least that's what they're told. But thanks to preborn, there are options. There's hope. The preborn clinics offer life and support for that child and that mother, and they have a level of understanding and compassion for pregnant women that is just so incredible. And it's saving so many lives. Day in and day out. Over 350,000 babies have been saved through this life giving work. Mothers like Valeria who thought she didn't deserve to have a child until her search led her to a Preborn Network clinic. Now she has a beautiful baby daughter. This is happening every day. That's why your support is so critical. Just $28 a month can save a life. That's the price of a preborn ultrasound, which they give to any pregnant woman who walks in for free. They introduce mother to child through that ultrasound and then the conversation about life becomes so much easier. Dial pound 250. Say the keyword baby that's pound 250. Say the keyword baby or go to preborn.com buck preborn.com b u c K.

[Buck Sexton]

Saving America One Thought at a time Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in Clay Travis, Buck Sexton show. Appreciate all of you rolling with us. We got a ton of you weighing in with VIP emails. Maybe we can run into some of these and a lot of people saying if Obama. Here's Michael and we'll get into some of this. If Obama can't be prosecuted, can he be called to testify under oath? No. Criminal liability? No. Fifth Amendment. Seems like he must testify truthfully on pain of perjury. You could still take the fifth Amendment. Yeah, I mean this is, I've seen people saying oh if you can't be prosecuted, you can't. I mean you could still have to be sued civilly. Like there are lots of ways that you could be liable for what you say and in some way in court. So again, I just think that a lot of you are chasing this idea of Obama's going to walk out in handcuffs because there are people who have sold this idea.

[Clay Travis]

I know.

[Buck Sexton]

And I just.

[Clay Travis]

They're being, they're being dishonest. Sorry to just. They're being dishonest with their audience. Ok. I'm not even, I'm not going to name some names. They know Obama's not going to get arrested. They know Obama's not going to be prosecuted. But, but they know that it's going to cause a lot of online clicks. I don't like that behavior. I think that that shows a disrespect for the people who give you their time. Obama is 99.999% not going to be criminally indicted over any of this. He can't be. He cannot be.

[Buck Sexton]

Trump. Trump said it. I give credit to Trump for pointing out again, the Supreme Court that they claimed was rigged by Trump has given all presidents expansive protection. Democrat, Republican, Independent, all for both past and present actions to come. We'll take some of your calls. We'll read some more of these emails. In the meantime, two of my three boys have cell phones. The youngest does not. We let him communicate via a rapid radio, which is great. These are a lot of fun. If you remember being a kid, maybe you had like the old GI Joe radios and you ran around with them. It's a great, easy way to communicate with a kid without having to worry about them being able to get on the Internet. It's also good football seasons coming up. Maybe you're going to be in a crowded tailgate situation. Maybe a lot of cell phone networks are going to be overloaded. Rapid Radios can find a way to communicate because they search all of the available networks. They get you hooked up. Also works great in times of catastrophe. No setup required. Pull them out of the box, press a button, boom, you're ready to go. Rapidradios.com to save 60% off. That's rapid radios.com get hooked up today.

[Clay Travis]

I welcome back into Clay and Buck. We're talking about the impaneling of a grand jury to look into the Russia collusion conspiracy that has spanned a decade now and was really the original ultra dirty trick used against Trump to try to stop him before MAGA could even get going. It was meant to, you know, smother MAGA with a pillow. It was really an insidious effort using the media elements of the deep state within the intelligence community. And yes, the White House in the control of the Obama regime at the time. And we're just trying to tell you where this stands now, where it's likely to go. And with that in mind, let's, let's dive into some of these emails and some of these calls. Clay, we have Mike in North Carolina. He's a caller. Right. Let's hear from Mike. What's going on?

[D]

Hey fellas, thanks a lot. You guys are doing a great job.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you.

[D]

I am almost a 50 year veteran of law enforcement. I've got lots of contacts that are federal prosecutors that have wrote, that have risen to just about the highest position short of Pam Bondi's office. And I've discussed this whole issue with them and it's not good. So everybody probably shouldn't get their hopes up too high. The statute of limitations is going to be a problem once they get into court because they don't believe that the recent acts clause in the conspiracy will, will hold up. They don't think that they can use it. RICO is going to be lacking the myriad of minor crimes. Minor, but the lesser crimes and wire fraud is probably going to get a real tough one to do too. The good point is, is that perjury will definitely be in play because once, once the conspiracy and the lies came out, they continue to push it while under oath. So that's a good thing.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you for that. Thank you for the call. Let me, let me dive into this a little bit, Buck, and I'll start in reverse because he finished with perjury. Perjury is really hard to prove. It is just really hard to prove, especially if you're dealing with someone who is actually sm. And I'll go back to, you know, that depends on what the meaning of the word is is. For those of you who remember the Clinton era, you know, remember when, well, he committed perjury.

[Clay Travis]

But that's okay. He actually committed perjury. Right.

[Buck Sexton]

But the way that he would answer questions, he said, you know, there is no relationship there. There are lots of angles where you're able to dodge around. The only reason, by the way, Bill Clinton got caught for perjury, correct me if I'm, is because Monica Lewinsky saved the dress. And they were able to prove, yeah.

[Clay Travis]

I did not have a sexual relationship with that woman. I mean, he was a liar, he committed perjury. Black letter, clear, obvious perjury. But I could give you.

[Buck Sexton]

But only I think because she kept that dress. If that dress had not existed, I think it would have been hard to prove it. Would have been a he said, she said. And it would have been hard to prove whether or not Monica Lewinsky was being honest or he was, I will.

[Clay Travis]

Say, a great example of somebody who has not faced any charges and will not face any charges despite being a liar. But he's a creature of the bureaucracy, is Fauci. Everything he says, he goes, you know, the data was coming from multiple sources. And I looked at this and I looked at that and it was complicated. And it was. If someone can turn your brain to mushroom with kind of vague non answers on, it's very hard to get them with perjury unless you have a thing. I brought this up in the context of counterterrorism cases. Why did guys who were. And it was guys who were raising money for Al Qaeda or, you know, bought a weapon illegally for a guy who was an Anwar al Awlaki sympathizer, things like that, why did they get nailed on perjury charges? Because they would. The investigators, usually FBI. The investigators would sit down with them and ask them answers to questions they already knew and hammer them on a few times. And they didn't realize because they didn't have a lawyer with them. It's very illegal to lie to the FBI about whether you bought explosives material for somebody or something like that. Right. So even if you couldn't prove the criminal terrorist conspiracy, you had them dead to rights on the lie. And then they end up pleading and they take five years or, you know, seven years with a terrible terrorism enhancement, something like that. You're not going to get that with these guys. This is got to remember. I know, I know that we think of them as. As bumbling buffoons and they are at some level. But they're also creatures, Clay, of the intelligence community and the bureaucracy. People like Brennan and Clapper. They've been mumbling through testimony for as long as I've been alive. This is what these guys do. So thinking that they're going to say, you know, oh, I'm telling a big obvious lie. You can prove, maybe you get them on this, but very unlikely. You haven't. We haven't got them on it yet.

[Buck Sexton]

I would also. Usually perjury has a very set statute of limitations and much of the testimony relating to Russia collusion, I believe would be past the perjury.

[Clay Travis]

It's all five years. It's all that. The perjury is all five years. And I just say this. People are saying now, put them through the process and get them to lie. They don't have to testify. Everything will be through lawyers. They're not more. They're not. I mean, I say things sometimes like they're, you know, there's different levels of moron. But you're not going to get John Brennan to perjure himself when he doesn't even have to testify about one of these matters. You know, this is, we just need to keep this in the realm of reality a little bit. That's, that's what I think is important. I mean, people, by the way, a lot of people call in Clay. They, you know what? And this, this I get. They just want the process to be the punishment.

[Buck Sexton]

I understand there is a. Let me say this by the way, on the conspiracy element. When I was in criminal law class, we had a great professor, Don hall, and he used to say, this is the reality inside of criminal prosecutions. They will say, boy, we don't have them on hardly anything. Let's just get them on a conspiracy.

[Clay Travis]

Right?

[Buck Sexton]

So this is a very broad based charge. My concern on the conspiracy, again, this is where we started the show is how do you locate the conspiracy charges in Florida? The only way to do that with the Russia collusion case is to argue it's one grand conspiracy. I think that's a very hard putt to sink. So my concern is getting Russia collusion charges to me would almost certainly require a D.C. grand jury, which I don't think a D.C. grand jury is willing to indict. So you have to get it to Florida to. But then you get the challenge of is the conspiracy actually the appropriate venue in Florida? I understand this is complicated, but I'm trying to tell you where we are headed from a legal process and procedure. And this is why it's complicated. Now to your point, Buck, some people are just like, screw it, bring the charges, get the story out there. Who cares what happens?

[Clay Travis]

This is the eye for an eye approach, which, by the way, I understand, like, I'm not, I'm not discounting it. I'm just saying that that's a different thing than I think we'll be able to take this all the way. Get criminal convictions that will be upheld on appeal and that people are going to go to prison. That's a different thing than screw it, let's just make these guys pay whatever price we can. We know that they're scumbags. That's also, that's also a valid philosophical position. Let's get Roger in Astoria, Queens. What's going on, Roger?

[D]

Hey, guys, you just stole my thunder there. Oh, what I was going to say is what I was going to say is, I think it's. What's going on now is a success. You know, you've got Obama, you got Comey, you got Brennan. And to them, their egos are so large that, you know, they want to be thought of as gods. And this is bringing them down. This is showing the people just, you know, what type of political hacks they were. And, you know.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, that's the. Thank you, Roger. This is the political. Ken. Yeah, this is the political accountability part of it, which I think I do think is important and valid. So thank you for calling in on that. I think that's clay. I think that's real. The more people know how gross and underhanded these efforts were, it stays with them longer. And some of these people still think they should have a say. I mean, certainly Obama does in our public discourse and in national elections.

[Buck Sexton]

I also think this is important to build on what he said about the process and having some sort of public hearing on this and a reckoning, for lack of a better way to say it. You know, when Trump got charged, we told all of you for months, they're going to charge him. This is coming. We don't think it's legitimate, but we're laying out all of the different parameters associated with it. On the left, if charges come down, does that audience have any idea that there's enough legitimacy for charges to be brought here? Because they've been told all of Russia collusion was true. They've been told everything that Tulsi Gabbard said is made up. There's no legitimacy to it whatsoever. You guys, meaning everybody listening to us right now, you were super well informed. We covered it aggressively on New York City, on Atlanta, on south Florida, on D.C. and we really kind of told you where we were headed, what was likely to come. I don't think any of you were shocked by what you saw transpire there. What is the average MSNBC viewer or New York Times reader going to think if suddenly indictments come down for lies associated with Russia collusion? I think that's a real. Now, they're probably going to say, oh, this is unprecedented. This is a precedent.

[Clay Travis]

They'll say it's invalid. But I think the point you're making is they will be completely blind, shot out of nowhere like lightning.

[Buck Sexton]

This could occur.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, yeah, I think. I think that's right. Greg in Orlando, Florida. What's going on, Greg?

[D]

TRUCK driver. So my favorite time of the day is 12 to 3 here in Florida.

[Clay Travis]

But I love our truck drivers. Thank you, Greg.

[D]

No problem. What's that quote? All stares, Love and war. I think it should be love, war and politics. I think we should go blow to blow with them. And if we can't get them legally, at least, we at least try to get them on accountability a little bit more. And like Clay saying, bring the light to what they're doing, more people will know. And if we can't get them legally, at least morally and ethically, people have a little bit bigger open eyes and realize what they've done. And remember that with future elections and anything else that comes up, I think.

[Buck Sexton]

That'S a great call. And I think that's really what you should expect and hope to have occurring here is just a public reckoning. Even if we don't get a criminal court reckoning. Because I'm telling you, this is going to get bogged down, by the way, a lot of three and $4,000 an hour criminal defense attorneys in D.C. buck, that are just rubbing their hands with glee because they want charges to come down. Because you know who the real winner here is? Criminal defense lawyers. Because Democrats are going to pay them tens of millions of dollars in legal defense fees that all their rich benefactors, the Soroses of the world, are going to fund. And those guys are just like, it's bonus season, baby. I'm gonna go buy a new house. I'm telling you right now, this is exactly the conversations they're having.

[Clay Travis]

Ruth in Cape Coral, Florida. A lot of Florida representatives, representation rather on today's show. What's going on, Ruth?

[E]

Hi, good afternoon, Clay and Buck. Yeah, I was calling about presidential immunity, but before I get into my point on that, just wanted to make a quick observation about grand conspiracy. You were indicating that you felt that the parts of the grand conspiracy were all separate. But I think if they have evidence showing that the same people coordinated all these efforts.

[Clay Travis]

Just to be clear, Clay thinks that it's very hard to prove the. I'm Buck, he's Clay. He thinks it's very hard to prove the grand conspiracy all ties together. So you're saying you think it'll be easier than. Than he maybe thinks if.

[E]

If they have evidence showing that the same people perpetrated the conspiracy.

[Buck Sexton]

That is, I think my argument with that is, let me just say, like, Barack Obama was definitely involved in the Russia investigation and collusion. I don't think Barack Obama was involved in the decision for the FBI to raid the Department of Justice. Right. So, yes, sorry to raid Mar A Lago. He was not in office at that point. So for him to be involved in that. I think it's hard to have conspirators that are part of a conspiracy for one conspiracy and not for another. And so I think it's separate.

[Clay Travis]

Ruth, you had another point, though. We got only about 30 seconds, but go for it.

[E]

Yes, I do. I do. Okay. With absolute presidential immunity, there were two parts to that Supreme Court decision. One was absolute immunity. The other was presumed immunity, and they kicked it back to the lower courts so that they would have to determine which were official acts and which were not. But if you remember, it was one of the liberal justices, Ketanji, Brown, Kagan or Sotomayor, that said, oh, what if he orders somebody to go out and kill somebody? You know, blah, blah, blah.

[Clay Travis]

So you're saying that this wouldn't be covered under official acts?

[E]

I am saying yes. I am saying they have some emails right now, as far as I understand, that the Russians had hacked into either the DNC or Hillary's computer that show that Obama and Hillary knew that they were contriving the Russia conspiracy. And that is not an official president. Presidential.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Thank you. Thank you, Ruth. I don't think that there's any Obama emails or he's like, hey, those fake emails, let's pin them on Trump. I'm not saying that. That he didn't do it. I'm just saying I don't think there's any emails that will show it. With that level of clarity, here's the problem. Any conversations that Obama as president at the time is having with the FBI director, with the CIA director, any of that is going to be considered under his official duty in terms of decisions made within their purview of surveillance, of contact with the press, all of that, you're never going to get around that.

[Buck Sexton]

What Ruth said is there was a hypothetical. My recollection is, what if the president just decided he wanted to assassinate someone? Could.

[Clay Travis]

If the president killed a maid in the Oval Office because he was in a bad mood, that's not an official act. That's clearly not covered. But talking to the FBI director about surveillance, that's going to be covered, or.

[Buck Sexton]

Ordering Seal Team 6 to take out somebody in a foreign country, arguably that's within the presidential provinces, too, Right? So I think Obama just. You got to take him off the table. It's unlikely to happen.

[Clay Travis]

I know it's that people don't. You know, I get it. It's frustrating to hear. But I'm just telling you the truth. And Clay sees it the same way if we're wrong, we will show up on the air and Mayor Culpa and you know, we'll take our lumps. Look, part of my health journey has involved this right here. I'm holding it up on the video. You can see chalk daily. I've got it in my hand here. Boost free and total testosterone. Contains 400500 mega milligrams rather prima v shilajit and supports lean muscle mass. This stuff is awesome. I take it every day. I've got it here on my desk. Doing the show. Proper supplementation along with diet and exercise is critical for your health. And chalk is there for you. The male vitality stack by the way, that's where I would start. It helps with so many things. Energy drive and yes, boosting Testosterone. Go to chalk.com today, see what they've got. Choq.com get set up like I am. Massive discount when you use my name Buck as your promo code. Go to chalk choq.com use promo code Buck.

[Buck Sexton]

Patriots Radio hosts A couple of regular guys, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[C]

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show rolling through and having some fun with all of you. We'll take some more of your calls as we continue through the program next hour. Buck Sorry Buck. There are subpoenas that have gone out in the Epstein case from James Comer. We will tell you a bit about those. Everything basically is in the legal process at this point in time and what I would say to you is don't miss sometimes the larger scale successes for the individual day to day storylines. Because one reason that this is all happening is because the economy, border crime, Trump's rolling on. And so it feels sometimes like there are bright, shiny distractions that are occupying everybody's attention. But I think big picture, economy, border crime, Trump is delivering on all three fronts. We'll talk about that when we come back. And the latest on the subpoenas going out from Washington, D.C. to the Clintons and more related to Epstein here on Clay and Buck.

[Clay Travis]

This is an iHeart podcast.