Hour 1 - Open for Business!

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode Title: Hour 1 - Open for Business!
Release Date: November 13, 2025
Host(s): Clay Travis & Buck Sexton
Special Appearances: President Donald Trump (clip), Caller Dave from Elk Grove, CA

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Overview of the Episode

The first hour of this episode centers on the reopening of the U.S. government after a prolonged shutdown, Trump’s take on the situation, and the political strategy behind such shutdowns. It then pivots into a nuanced debate about the H1B visa program, juxtaposing caller experiences, Trump’s public comments, and deeper questions about American education, workforce competitiveness, and immigration. There’s also lively rapport between the hosts with an eye toward the upcoming midterms and how these issues may shape the future political landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Government Shutdown Ends — Trump Signs Bill

[02:05]–[04:00]

• The federal government reopens after a 43-day shutdown.

• President Trump’s comments about the shutdown are played, highlighting his position that Democrats gained nothing and attempted to "extort" the country over immigration spending.

  "[T]he country has never been in better shape. … Democrats thought [the shutdown] would be good politically. … It's an honor now to sign this incredible bill and get our country working again."
  — President Trump ([02:50])

  "For the past 43 days, Democrats in Congress shut down the government … to extort American taxpayers for hundreds of billions of dollars for illegal aliens … They wanted to pay them $1.5 trillion … We will never give in to extortion because that's what they tried to do…"
  — President Trump ([03:19])

• Clay Travis expresses skepticism about whether Democrats learned anything and wonders if they'll repeat the tactic as elections approach.

  "Why will they not just do this again maybe multiple times in 2026 as we come up on the midterm elections?"
  — Clay Travis ([04:00])

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2. Political Strategy & The Filibuster

[04:00]–[12:00]

• Buck discusses how the shutdown may become a midterm "referendum," noting Democrats will leverage the issue to push affordability and health care as central campaign talking points.

• Clay argues for changing Senate rules to prevent minority-party-fueled shutdowns, citing risks such as interruptions to air traffic control and referencing "Breaking Bad" to illustrate real-world consequences.

• Both hosts assess the political "arms race" that adjusting filibuster rules could ignite—drawing parallels to prior changes on judicial appointments.

  "If we modified the filibuster when it comes to Supreme Court appointments, then why in the world would we not modify the filibuster to stop the minority party from effectively throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down the government?"
  — Clay Travis ([09:55])

  "There's something of an arms race that occurs within the Senate procedural rules … But if you want Trump to have a functional government and not just allow Democrats to throw tantrums like this … then it makes a lot of sense."
  — Buck Sexton ([10:40])

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3. H1B Visas — Debate, Caller Experience, and Policy Critique

[12:27]–[39:05]

Set-Up and Trump/Laura Ingraham Exchange

[12:27]–[22:32]

• Clay and Buck set up a listener call segment focused on the real impact of H1B visas, referencing a debate between Laura Ingraham (critical of H1Bs) and President Trump (defensive of the policy in some cases).

• Trump argues some specialized foreign talent is essential for advanced industries and gives an example involving battery manufacturing.

  "You can't take people off an unemployment line and say I'm going to put you into a factory … to make missiles. It doesn't work that way."
  — President Trump ([20:03])

• Buck contextualizes that while there's a cap of roughly 85,000 new H1Bs/year, there are about 750,000 H1B workers currently in the U.S.—highlighting the scale and public misconception.

Caller Dave’s Perspective

[23:45]–[25:49]

• Dave from Elk Grove, CA shares his first-hand experience as a business owner who sponsored H1B visas for highly skilled structural engineers from Kenya and Turkey.

  • Stresses the need for a global “meritocracy” in technical fields.
  • Refutes the idea that H1Bs are typically underpaid or replace Americans for cheaper labor.

  "To oppose this program to me is opposing the meritocracy, honestly. … You have to reach out and get the best talent available wherever you can find it … It's not like you're going to roll out of bed and become an engineer."
  — Dave ([23:45])

Economic and Policy Concerns

[25:51]–[34:44]

• Buck points to studies showing H1B workers often earn 20%-30% less than their American counterparts, and argues the program is often abused for cheaper labor, especially by large tech companies.

  "The program is being abused on a massive scale."
  — Buck Sexton ([27:55])

• Clay shifts to the educational angle, questioning why U.S. colleges aren’t producing enough highly skilled workers if the jobs are so lucrative.

  "Isn't it a huge indictment of the American educational system if we aren't producing enough people with so-called hard education skills?"
  — Clay Travis ([28:25])

• Buck brings up how 75% of H1Bs are from India, raising questions about the fairness and transparency of the process, and notes the loopholes and broader implications with family sponsorships and possible fraud.

• The hosts touch on the irony that many legal/illegal immigrants receive public assistance—contrary to stated policy—compounding affordability and entitlement costs.

  "It's just been a massive scam. The elites have sold out the American people…Trump is supposed to stop it."
  — Buck Sexton ([32:29])

Future of H1B Visas Amidst AI Changes

[33:26]–[34:44]

• Clay notes that rapid AI evolution may make the entire H1B debate moot by automating most of these technical jobs.
• Buck remarks on how “coding” is about to become as basic and universal a skill as typing once was.

  "Coding is about to become a lot easier. … It's going to be like operating an iPhone today instead of operating like a DOS system computer in 1990."
  — Buck Sexton ([33:57])

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4. Education, Meritocracy, and Societal Priorities

[34:44]–[37:05]

• The hosts lament cultural emphasis on sports over academics, noting that technical fields need to be more valued and rewarded in society.

  "Maybe we need to pay them a lot more and maybe our society needs to get a little more attuned to—we actually need people who can do some of these things."
  — Buck Sexton ([34:59])

• Clay lampoons liberal arts degrees as out of sync with job market realities, referencing high tuition for low-market-value degrees.

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5. Hosts’ Banter and Show Dynamics

[15:19], [41:03]–[41:44]

• Clay and Buck tease an upcoming conversation with Bill O’Reilly about Gavin Newsom’s political future.
• Light-hearted discussion about “old man strength” and grip, riffing on Bill O’Reilly.
• Buck jokingly chastises Clay for public speakerphone use:

  "I'm sitting here defending civilization while Clay is just helping it crumble with his speakerphone use in public…" ([41:44])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shutdowns & Political Strategy

  "They may still believe that they gain politically … my concern is why would they not do this potentially multiple times in the upcoming year with the election cycle?"
  — Clay Travis ([04:00])

• On H1B Visas

  "To oppose this program to me is opposing the meritocracy, honestly."
  — Dave, caller ([23:45])

  "The program is being abused on a massive scale."
  — Buck Sexton ([27:55])

  "Isn't it a huge indictment of the American educational system if we aren't producing enough people with so-called hard education skills?"
  — Clay Travis ([28:25])

• On Societal Priorities

  "We need the NBA equivalent in terms of skill set coming out of our universities."
  — Buck Sexton ([34:59])

• Hosts’ Banter

  "I'm sitting here defending civilization while Clay is just helping it crumble with his speakerphone use in public…"
  — Buck Sexton ([41:44])

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Important Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:05] — Start of main content; government shutdown ends
• [02:50] — Trump statement on reopening the government
• [03:19] — Trump accuses Democrats of political extortion
• [04:00] — Clay raises the filibuster question
• [10:26] — Buck/Clay discuss filibuster reforms and Senate procedural arms race
• [12:27] — Call for audience input on H1B visas
• [19:02] — Play of Trump/Ingraham H1B visa exchange
• [23:45] — Caller Dave from Elk Grove shares H1B experience
• [27:55] — Buck cites H1B abuses and wage concerns
• [28:25] — Clay critiques U.S. education system’s shortcomings
• [34:44] — AI’s likely impact on H1B-relevant jobs
• [41:03] — Hosts’ banter on speakerphones and society

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Summary Conclusion

This episode is a tightly woven conversation about two high-stakes domains—federal government funding and the future of high-skilled labor. Clay and Buck dissect the just-ended government shutdown, probe political tactics and reform needs, and then launch into a robust debate on H1B visas, balancing firsthand accounts against research and public sentiment. Underpinning it all are worries about American education and readiness in a rapidly changing technological world. As always, the show features both sharp critique and playful asides, keeping the tone engaging while tackling weighty issues.

Transcript

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome in. Appreciate all of you as we roll through the Thursday edition of the program. Rejoice. The Government is back Open Last night, President Trump at 10:24pm Eastern officially signed the bill put on his desk from the House and we are now back up and running. And let's go ahead and take you into that evening event. If if you missed it, as many of you may have already been in bed or you may not have been paying attention, here is what Trump said last night, sitting at the Resolute desk in the Oval Office as he officially began the process of opening the government by signing the bill, cut three.

[Buck Sexton]

I.

[President Donald Trump]

Just want to tell you the country has never been in better shape. We went through this short term disaster with the Democrats because they thought it would be good politically. And it's an honor now to sign this incredible bill and get our country working again. Thank you.

[Clay Travis]

One more thing, Buck. He also said for 43 days, Democrats had no argument. That argument has not changed. This is cut for.

[President Donald Trump]

For the past 43 days, Democrats in Congress shut down the government of the United States in an attempt to extort American taxpayers for hundreds of billions of dollars for illegal aliens and people that came into our country illegally from gangs, from prisons, from mental institutions. They wanted to pay them $1.5 trillion, which would have really hurt our health care businesses and our recipients at levels never seen before. Today we're sending a clear message that we will never give in to extortion because that's what they tried to extort. The Democrats tried to extort our country.

[Clay Travis]

Okay? So I think the number one question most people have, including myself, and I'm curious how you would break this down in terms of the likelihood is what is going to come next? Buck, is I'm glad that we are now back open. The Democrats gained absolutely nothing. They seem to have made this choice despite the fact that there was no benefit to them at all. Why will they not just do this again maybe multiple times in 2026 as we come up on the midterm elections? That's question one for you, Buck, and I think for everybody out there, too. And the second part here, I don't understand why we can't modify the filibuster in this particular fashion where we don't allow the minority party to shut down the government just over having basically a tantrum. My concern is, yes, Democrats have recognized after 43 days, hey, we didn't gain anything. Trump's not going to bend. But they may still believe that they gain politically. So my concern is why would they not do this potentially multiple times in the upcoming year with the election cycle?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I think that the midterm is going to be something of people overuse the term referendum. Right. First of all, what is it, you know, what does a referendum really mean? A lot of people don't know, so how much of a referendum it would. It would be. But I think the midterms will factor into the assessment of whether this kind of tactic is effective or not, because a lot of the narrative is going to be built off of this. Right? There's going to be a lot of posturing about how we fought, we stood up to Trump and, and I think they'll see this as an opening to talk about health care, the problem Democrats have. And this is, this is getting really deep into it. And Clay, this feels like something that has been building for a long time because again, I, I started talking about politics for a living right around it was the Tea Party era, right around when Obamacare was the thing. Right. Obamacare was the big fight in this country politically. It shows how, shows how long, how far back we're going now we're talking 15 years. And they managed to, with the obvious advantages they had in the media and the, the whole apparatus around Obama himself and the worship and everything, they managed to both roll out the goodies. Oh, you can be on your parents plan. Oh, we're going to expand coverage. Oh, we're going to make mental health and physical health give it parity and all this, all these things that people go, oh, well, that sounds kind of good. With this promise of you're going to keep your doctor, it's going to bring down costs, it's going to make the health care system more efficient. All of that is a total failure. In fact, it's worse than a failure because it went in the other direction. It made, you know, it's one thing to not achieve your goal, it's another thing to make it worse. If I was giving somebody, you know, special diet cookies and they didn't lose weight, that's bad. If they gained 50 pounds, that's even worse. That's what the Obamacare bill has actually done. And I think that health care is going to be a big part of what the midterms, because health care goes right into affordability. You're going to hear that word, affordability, I might add, ad nauseam. You're all going to get sick of it. We're all going to get sick of talking about it, but it matters. This is, this, this is the new version of kitchen table economic issues. So, Clay, about the shutdown, I think it's the beginning phase of Democrats trying to convince the American people to enough of them that they can regain power. Remember, they're not trying to gain, they're not trying to convince you, me or this audience, but they're trying to regain power through convincing enough Americans that they stand against, they stand against Trump. That's point one. No matter what that means, we stand against Trump. Yes, no kings. And point two, we're going to make your life style more affordable. Somehow I think that's going to be the whole, the whole thing. They don't want to say we're to kick open the borders and let criminals run wild on the streets. That was kind of a loser for them in 24.

[Clay Travis]

That wasn't a good, that wasn't a good take. But I still think they're going to do it again. And so if you're out there and you're saying, what are the consequences for Democrats doing this? Yes, they have an internal civil war. Yes, Chuck Schumer is under siege. But I don't know that they actually lost anything. And if anything, I think there's an incentive to try this again, which is why I would solve this. And I'm saying this on behalf of Republicans, who may be the minority party again. Almost certainly at some point in the next decade, Republicans won't have control of the Senate. Why in the world would we not put in place procedures to stop this from happening? Because leave aside the temper tantrum aspect of it, I'm concerned. And I know you talked about this, an air traffic control error that led to the deadliest plane crash, if I remember, was it in Brazil you were talking about, Buck, where 500 people died when, when two planes collided. My concern is we created a situation where that could happen in the United States when all the air traffic control guys and gals are not getting paid what they should have gotten paid. They're not getting their paychecks. And we started to have to restrict the amount of flow of airplanes all over the country. And so many of you got caught up in the chaos. We could have had a real disaster there. That's the area, I would argue, of our federal government that is most important given the consequences of being wrong. In fact, you, I know you're a big fan of this show, too. You remember one of the seasons of Breaking Bad actually opens with an air traffic controller losing track of what's going on and allowing two planes to collide in the air. For those of you out there that are also big Breaking Bad fans, but I don't understand why we have allowed this process to occur and why we would continue to allow it to occur. To me, if we modified the filibuster when it comes to Supreme Court appointments, then why in the world would we not modify the filibuster to stop the minority party from effectively throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down the government like this, that, to me, seems like an easy resolution.

[Buck Sexton]

Going forward there, there was a lot of talk from Trump about getting rid of the filibuster.

[Clay Travis]

And then I think getting rid of the Whole filibuster is a step too far. But this, to me would make sense.

[Buck Sexton]

This is what I was going to say is that this is the halfway measure is. Well, on this one, on this one, we are going to change the rule. Now, to be, to be fair and to be clear, Harry Reid did something of a halfway measure with the judges, too. Right. It was for federal judges, but not for Supreme Court. And then when we were in the majority, we were like, you know what? You're going to play that game. We're going to play that game. So there's something of an arms race that occurs within the Senate procedural rules that we will be engaging in here. But if you want Trump to be able to have a functional government and not just allow Democrats to throw tantrums like this, then I think that this makes, then I think it makes a lot of sense to do. We just have to understand that there will be a cost, there will be a consequence on the other side at some point. I do think there's understanding already, Clay, among Republicans and among the Trump faithful, among all the Trump voters out there, Democrats will be back in power at some point. You know, the triumphalism of the first six months because it felt like such a, a sound and resounding defeat of Kamala and the forces of, of evil, also known as Democrats, that has given way a little bit to, oh, wow, they can still make people like Spamberger win in Virginia. Kamala was closer than we think, as awful as she was. I mean, that's what I always like to remind people of. They almost won with Kamala and they did win. I know the shenanigans, but they did win with a dementia patient and Joe Biden. Yes. So there's a lot of Democrats out there, everybody, and a very powerful machinery around them. So we need to be prepared not just for this midterm, but get ready for what things are going to look like if and when they take power again.

[Clay Travis]

All right, you want to set up this conversation? Let's go ahead, because we talked about it yesterday, the H1B visas, and some of you may have strong opinions. In fact, I'll open up the phone lines on this 800-282-2882. For people who have used H1B visas before, business owners management, I would be interested in hearing your experience. I candidly have not ever as a business owner been involved in anything involving these visas. But there was a significant discussion between Laura Ingram, who is very opposed to these, and President Trump, who in general has been in favor of them. And you mentioned yesterday, Buck, that this kind of blew up the it was during Christmas break, if I remember correctly. Vivek Ramaswamy stepped into the H1B visa discussion on social media and he hasn't even been that active. Vivek hasn't on social media by and large, since.

[Buck Sexton]

Look, you know, I was, I've talked to Vake a little bit in the past. I was very skeptical of his run because to me it felt like it was just for attention and brand building and it was successful in that regard. But I liked a lot of what he said and I think a lot of what he said was in earnest. That tweet was one of the worst self destructive tweets I've ever seen a Republican politician put out in my life because it really, it really was like a swipe at America and, and it felt like it was something he really believed and that is not good. And by the way, you know, his opponent in the, the Democrat opponent in Ohio, what do you think the first thing that she's attacking with already on that is I do think America doesn't have a culture of excellence. Where do they have a culture of excellence, Vivek? Explain that one to Clay. One of the worst tweets I've ever seen. I mean, not as bad as writing a memoir about shooting your dog, but.

[Clay Travis]

But bad, bad we will. The positive is Vivek appears to be on track to win Ohio comfortably, which would be important and I do think he would be a good governor. But when we come back, I want to hear phone lines are open, 800-282-2882. I'm not wanting your opinion on this. If you haven't interacted or used these, I want people out there in our audience who have used the H1B visas. We're going to dive into this. We'll talk about it some during the course of of this hour. We also are going to be joined by our friend Bill O'Reilly at the top of the next hour, much to discuss, including Bill O'Reilly. Didn't he say this? He's totally wrong on this. We'll have to tell him that Gavin Newsom has no political future in the Democrat Party, basically as the president.

[Buck Sexton]

We may tag team Uncle Bill on this one, Clay, but just remember, he's got old man strength.

[Clay Travis]

You know, that is certainly true. I'm getting to be an old man. I think I'm starting to have some old man strength.

[Buck Sexton]

What is it about you reach an age and the grip, the grip strength that you have is like terrifying. You know all of a sudden you're.

[Clay Travis]

Like just it's like when people used to say that somebody was farm strong. It's like you have lived a life where you if you are physically active, it's carrying around kids, it's dragging the chairs to the beach. It's just all of the non gym related muscle musculature it adds up to like.

[Buck Sexton]

I don't think Uncle Bill would be be great at deadlifting, but I think he could probably crack a billiard ball in his left hand like no problem.

[Clay Travis]

Potentially. So we'll talk about this but H1B1 you guys loaded lines. I can already see poor producer Greg. I only want people who have experienced it, not your opinion on this. I want to hear from people that have actually used these Cell phone service.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Making America great again isn't just one man, it's many. The Team 47 podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck Podcast feedback. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Buck Sexton]

All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck. We're gonna have a discussion that we meant to have yesterday but we just ran out of time because we had so much going on on the show. It has to do with H1B visas. OK. And H1B visas are very contentious for a whole bunch of reasons. We're going to get into. But I want to start with this. President Trump, Laura Ingraham did a really good interview on Fox News with President Trump and President Trump was talking about this issue and I think that it was a little people take out of context or rather aren't understanding the full context of what Trump is saying. We'll get into this. But first, this is the clip we do have time for. Let's play at 27. Does that mean the H1B visa thing will not be a big priority for your administration? Because if you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with with tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.

[President Donald Trump]

Also do have to bring in talent when.

[Buck Sexton]

No you don't.

[President Donald Trump]

No you don't.

[Buck Sexton]

We don't have talented people.

[President Donald Trump]

No, you don't have. You don't have certain talents and you have to people have to learn. You can't take people off an unemployment like an unemployment line and say I'm going to put you into a factory. We're going to make missiles or I'm going to Put.

[Buck Sexton]

How did we ever do it before?

[President Donald Trump]

Well, let me give you an example. In Georgia, they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants. They had people from, from South Korea that made batteries all their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated. It's not an easy thing, and very dangerous. A lot of explosions, a lot of problems. They had like five or six hundred people, early stages to make batteries and to teach people how to do it well. They wanted them to get out of the country. You're going to need that, Laura. I mean, I know you and I disagree on this. You can't just say a country's coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and going to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked in five years and they're going to start making missiles. It doesn't work that way.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, Clay, this is very important. We'll get into this because there has been some further explanation of it. Some people were a little upset at what the President said. What he's saying is true in context of what he's.

[Clay Travis]

What he's.

[Buck Sexton]

I will explain in a minute, but just you asked a really important question that I think sets the stage for this really well. They always say, well, there's only 65,000 H1Bs a year. That's how many new ones are given. There are 3/4 of a million H1B workers in America right now. 750,000 give or take. No matter how safe you think your neighborhood is, there's always the chance you'll be the victim of a home intrusion, a burglary, home invasion, and it's happening across the country. You just want to be prepared for this. Hopefully it never is something you have to think about, but it is something you have to be prepared for. That's where our sponsor Saber comes in. Saber makes the most effective non lethal protection tools out there. You can go big with their pepper spray projectile launcher shaped like a pistol or a rifle, or get one of their innovative, innovative 2 in 1 pepper lights. Both a flashlight and a pepper spray. Sabre is spelled S A B R E. Their website is sabreradio.com clay and I know the CEO of this company. It's been a family business for over 50 years. He relies on these products to protect his family. Clay and I have them in our homes and use them just the same way. Sabre, the number one pepper spray brand trusted by law enforcement. Go to sabre radio.com that's S A B R E radio.com or call 844-824 safe.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis, Buck Sexton SHOW we appreciate all of you hanging out with us. All right, we just laid out a little bit of the details. We played you the cut of Laura Ingram who disagrees with President Trump on this issue. There's a cap of roughly 85, 000 a year. But as Buck pointed out, these can be multi year contracts that are brought in the so called H1B visas for people with special skills. They are brought into the country. They're now I believe Buck under Trump is a hundred thousand dollar tax per H1B that is being introduced. And these are supposedly jobs that are super skilled and difficult to find Americans that they can do. And we got a bunch of you. I actually want to hear from some of you. Let's start with Dave in Elk Grove, California. You are a small business owner and you sponsored two people coming here. Give us a rough idea of why that was necessary and what your take is on the H1B debate.

[Caller Dave from Elk Grove]

Okay, so structural engineers, it's highly technical, takes great skills in math, physics, science. I'll put it in a sports analogy. You're putting a team together and you want to win. You're going to draft the best players you can find from wherever they're born on the planet. Okay. To oppose this program to me is opposing the meritocracy, honestly. So anyhow, it worked out great. Sponsored one individual from Kenya, another from Turkey brought them on board. Both Ph.D. folks, tremendous assets contributed company. Oh, and I want to say too, we paid them on par or more than others in the firm because of their qualifications. So it's straight up it went also then they sponsored them through the legal process so that they could become legal residents on the path to citizenship. It was a win win. So because they were.

[Clay Travis]

You're a Trump. I mean I assume you're a, you're a Trump voter. So this is something you would agree with the President on, not with Laura Ingram and others. Let me ask you this. These are people that in your opinion, they had a skill set from these foreign countries. You could not find Americans to do the job that you hired these individuals for. Because sometimes the counter argument is you're paying less. I don't mean you specifically, but people who get H1BS are paying less to foreign workers because they're desperate to come to America instead of otherwise hiring qualified Americans. Is that not an accurate attack in your mind based on what you have seen in this program?

[Caller Dave from Elk Grove]

Absolutely. The talent pool in this tech, highly technical world is so thin, you have to reach out and get the best Talent available wherever you can find it. It's not like you're going to roll out of bed and become an engineer. Okay. When I was in school, we used to make fun of the liberal arts majors because, you know, five units for a class where I did, you know, true false questions versus a three unit class and statics where if you failed it, you were out. I mean, it was, it's just, it's night and day.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, thank you for the call.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, this is, this is. So this is where this gets a little tricky. I'll just say that you're. We're, we can, we'll take calls on both sides of this. I know and I know people personally who fall on both sides of this debate. They'll, they'll do something. Oh, I hired, you know, someone to do coding work from Georgia, the country, not the state. And they were fantastic. Or I hired somebody to. And I couldn't find anybody in it. Okay, well, but someone has to explain to me then a few things. First of all, I mean, you can go and find the Economic Policy Institute, for example, is one place you can find all these different studies that show H1B workers in the same role are making 20 to 30% less than American, American competitors. Okay, so that's, we need, we need to figure out whether this is true or not. I mean, if you do a simple search on this, people can say, oh no, we paid, you know, we paid Tony or Ahmed or whatever more than the role would. Okay, well, you can say that for the job that you hired. But what's actually happening with the 750,000 H1B workers across the country? Also, why are so many H1B workers from one country, which is India? That's, I think, an interesting story in and of itself. There's a lot of countries out there, a lot of places that you would think would be turning out so called talent. And remember, it's supposed to be talent that you can't. That is not capable of being found here in the Marketplace. There are 340 million Americans and God knows how many illegals. You're going to tell me that there's no one who can do these jobs here. There's a million people that are doing now to the point that Trump was making. Clay, I was at TSMC in Taiwan. Very interesting Taiwan trip. I've talked about it a lot. Do we have the know how to run a fab, a fabrication facility for microchips at the level that TSMC does with the current US Workforce? No, we don't and that's very important, but they're changing that. And that's what Trump was trying to talk about. I think what people, what bothers people is when Amazon is hiring H1BS to do menial coding work or to do phone bank stuff or, you know, whatever customer service. Because they're cheaper. Yeah. And they're undercutting American workers. And that is happening. So one individual story about oh, but I found this great H1B. OK, that's fine. The program is being abused on a massive scale.

[Clay Travis]

I think the biggest challenge to me is let's presume that what President Trump is saying is true and what our caller just said is true. From Elk Grove, California. Isn't it a huge indictment of the American educational system if we aren't producing enough people with so called hard education skills, which is what our caller was just talking about, doing the hard work of going in and getting a advanced engineering degree. My college roommate Buck went and got a PhD in economics from Georgetown. Super hard field to get a PhD in. He was the only American born guy in his Georgetown PhD program. They were all Asian. And I do think this is a failure to that I think ties in with the larger educational environment. If it's such a great advantage to get elite American academic education, which I think to a large extent it still is, why would we bring in so many people from foreign countries, train them up and then send them back to our. Well, this is the other, this is.

[Buck Sexton]

The other huge, huge part of the argument this was even the case. I remember a long time ago visiting an Ivy League school when I was looking at schools and the guy running their electrical engineering department told me that they could take three classes of Chinese, of only Chinese students for electrical engineering with perfect, you know, perfect boards, perfect testing. And he said that there's some concern they weren't really, you know, all in on the, some concern that that may not be a good idea. So yeah, one of the reasons, I might add, that they still take Americans in a lot of these schools is legacy and donation. That's why. Yeah, there's a lot of, that's a.

[Clay Travis]

Big, that's a big part of you with me there that if there are all these great jobs in America you mentioned 750,000 of them that require incredible educations, why isn't the United States producing those people? Look, I'm all.

[Buck Sexton]

But this is, I think that's not true is the point, I think over. Well, I think that if you were to really dig into this, I'm throwing out a number here. But based on everything I've read, and I've read about this pretty extensively, 10 to 20% max of the H1B program as it exists now is within the realm of what it's actually meant to be. The rest of it is people who are hiring for lower wages. You have less bargaining power because you're tied to the company that you are working for. Oh, by the way, you also get to sponsor your family and bring them over here. And then you get to try to get a green card. And if you get a green card, guess what? Then you can try chain migration and sponsor everybody else, too. There are huge American concerns and interests in this program that go beyond the quarterly stock statements of whatever the. Whatever the company is that is putting these people forward. Right? So that's. That's the part of this that people have started to hone in on.

[Clay Travis]

Well, the one thing I will say is at least these immigrants have substantial skills. Whereas if we're going to be bringing in a huge immigrant population. One of the things that I think I've been reading about that kind of stunned me, and I bet a lot of you didn't know this data either, is the number of immigrants we bring in that immediately go on, snap. Like, that's a record scratch moment for me, right? We're bringing in people who can't afford to feed themselves. And you and me and all American taxpayers are bringing in foreign residents. Now, intentionally. I'm not talking about.

[Buck Sexton]

And it's a violation of immigration policy. We are. You are not. This is very clear in existing statute, you are not allowed to be in this country and be on any form of public assistance whatsoever. Millions and millions, tens of millions of legal and illegal immigrants are. And people are waking up to the scam. You want to talk about affordability? You know, let's say there are 15 million. And by the way, I know that's low. Okay? I know that's low. But let's say there are 15 million illegals in this country. They live somewhere. They live in houses. Maybe they're, you know, doubling and tripling up in some cases with whatever. But you want to talk about a housing crunch and the ways that things would move markets for people that are having a tough time affording a place. You have 15 million people in the country who are, by the way, they're not paying into. They're not paying income tax. So you start to look at the goods and services that they are going to consume just by being here versus the output in many cases. Clay, this is why? The more you pull at this, the more. It's just been a massive scam. The elites have sold out the American people and a lot. The American people, all Americans. And that is the part of this that I think is really both. It's critical to deal with, but also it's shocking and saddening that this has happened in this country that we've been taken advantage of in this way. And Trump is supposed to stop it now. He's taken some big steps, but there's a lot more to do.

[Clay Travis]

Here's the scary part, and we'll take some more of your calls. 800-282-2882. I want people who have had experience with H1B visas. I want to hear your perspectives out there in the audience. AI may make the H1B visa argument just seem like it's so when you look at the number of jobs that are going to be eliminated, the idea that these jobs even exist, I think. I think a lot of these H1B jobs are going to vanish as a part of AI to learn to code.

[Buck Sexton]

Was actually terrible advice because coding is about to. Coding is about to be a thing that, you know. You know, when typing was a really unique skill. You remember we were typing class when I was in grammar school, I was like, why do we have to learn how to type? What a waste of time. It turns out being able to type pretty important, but everyone can do it now. Coding is about to become a lot easier. It's going to be like operating an iPhone today instead of operating like a DOS system computer in 1990. And. But, Clay, another thing on the H1B, 75% of H1B visas in recent years come from India. 75%. There's over 200 countries in the world this is really about. India is the only place that's, you know, you start to pull at this, too. What's going on there? There's a bit of a cartel effect happening.

[Clay Travis]

I think this is. There's so many different angles to examine. The one that frustrates me the most is there are great jobs that. That according to this argument, American educational institutions are not producing enough of.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, and maybe part of the problem is, you know, while we're paying NBA players 30 million, $40 million a year, I don't even know some of these NBA players that are making this kind of money because they're in a global marketplace for media, right? You turn around, you say, well, we need super geniuses coming out of, you know, we need the NBA equivalent in terms of skill set coming out of our universities. Well, maybe we need to pay them a lot more and maybe our society needs to get a little more attuned to. We actually need people who can do some of these things. Making a lot of money. Look at what the money, Clay, they've been throwing around for AI recently.

[Clay Travis]

Crazy.

[Buck Sexton]

Is astonishing. But I have no problem with it because you know what? It's really important.

[Clay Travis]

Well, and also, it's the ultimate meritocracy. Right. There are relatively few people with incredible talents. And. And if you have those talents, you can be paid a superstar salary on a level, frankly, that has never occurred before. And again, I just. I want kids to be. I love that caller because he was kind of making fun of the liberal arts grads. But, you know, the number of people that go to elite schools, and I'm not trying to take a shot at this, but go to elite schools and major in gender studies and you come out and you're 22 and you're like, hey, I went to. I don't know, I went to Northwestern and I got a gender studies degree. And I'm looking around like the parents. You spent 400k so your kid could get a gender studies degree at Northwestern?

[Buck Sexton]

It's a joke. What are you doing? The whole system is. Well, I mean, Clay, even I. I got into Columbia Business School in New York City, which was like, oh, my gosh, I can go to Columbia Business School. This is fantastic. I'll get my mba. Glenn Beck convinced me to get into media instead. Top five decisions I've ever made. You know, number one, marrying my wife. And then like, this is probably number three, four. I don't know. I'd have to think about this, but at the time, people thought I was nuts. Well, you're not going to get an Ivy League, NBA. Why aren't you going to do that? That's such a ticket to. Actually, not always. No, this was much better. This is a lot more fun. I didn't think I'd get to sit here and hang out with you for 15 hours a week. And look how it all happened.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, look, this is part of a big picture discussion. We'll take some of your calls. I think it's not an easy answer, but it is something that I think many of you are grappling with as you contemplate the rapid evolution that is going to occur with AI with high tech jobs and with the people that are going to fill them and how those jobs are filled. Look, I love Cozy Earth. I absolutely love this product. I slept and sleep in their sheets every night. I was thinking about this. You ever get in your bed and the temperature is such that if you have two one big cover on, you get too warm and you don't have enough on, then you get too cold. I was just sleeping under my Cozy Earth sheets the other night. They were absolutely perfect. Somehow they are adjusting for my temperature. I didn't have to have a big cover yet. It's not super cold in Nashville yet. And I just, I think that this is an incredible company with so many different awesome offerings. And so I'm telling you right now, we are what, less than six weeks I believe from Christmas. Buck's already got his Christmas gifts.

[Buck Sexton]

I got all my Christmas gifts for my family in New York. Cozy Earth everything. Clay sheets, blankets, towels, pajama sets. All done. All done. Thank you. That's right.

[Clay Travis]

40% off with code Clay right now. C O Z Y earth.com that's cozyearth.com my name Clay as the promo code for 40 off. That's cozyearth.com code Clay 40 off cozy earth C O Z Y E A r t h cozyearth.com check them out today. You're gonna love these products. Sometimes all you can do is laugh and they do a lot of it with the Sunday hang. Join Clay and Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Buck Sexton]

This is the story of the 1. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the Line up and running is a top priority. That's why he chooses Grainger, because when a drive belt gets damaged, Grainger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs. And next day delivery helps helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. Coming up in a few minutes here we'll have uncle Bill. Bill O'Reilly, huge best selling author, commentator. You all know Bill O'Reilly latest book, confronting Evil, Assessing the worst of the worst. And to that I would put people who speak on speakerphone in restaurants and other crowded public places. The worst of the worst. Clay, what say you?

[Clay Travis]

I speak on speakerphone sometimes, but good hell, I had. I have trouble sometimes hearing the phone. The whole, the concept of using a phone to make a phone call has basically vanished. I can get on and, you know, buy anything on the planet and get on the Internet, be great. The phone basically doesn't work for me to have an actual conversation on it anymore. So sometimes like I go on speakerphone, not so much in public, but if I'm like driving around in the car trying to talk to somebody because otherwise I can't hear anything, the phone doesn't exist to actually have conversations anymore. It's kind of crazy that I'm sitting.

[Buck Sexton]

Here defending civilization while Clay is just helping it crumble with his speakerphone use in public around other human beings. Clay, they have to listen.

[Clay Travis]

Sometimes I have really interesting conversations wishing.

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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This is an iheart podcast.