Hour 1 - Sometimes the Juice Isn't Worth the Squeeze

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 1 – Sometimes the Juice Isn't Worth the Squeeze
Date: January 30, 2026
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Summary by ChatGPT

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Overview

This episode centers on the breaking news of Don Lemon’s arrest, the implications for free speech and journalism, and why the hosts believe the legal process may ultimately benefit Lemon’s reputation more than it hurts him. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton use their legal and media backgrounds to analyze the issue with humor, skepticism, and political insight, drawing parallels to past cases and engaging callers on related topics.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Presidential Executive Orders and Sports Spectacle

• President Trump signs a set of executive orders, including hosting an IndyCar race in D.C. and potentially an MMA fight for the nation’s 250th anniversary.
• The hosts discuss D.C.’s suitability for such races due to its European-style boulevards.

Breaking News: Don Lemon Arrested

• Don Lemon (referred to as “Don Lamond” at times for comic effect) is arrested, along with others, in connection with a protest at a church in St. Paul, Minnesota.
• The arrest was made after a grand jury indictment—highlighted as neither a personal decision by Pam Bondi (Attorney General) nor a fiat from the executive branch, but due to a finding of probable cause.

“A grand jury indicted Don Lemon. So this was not some sort of grand executive decision... The grand jury in a blue state, Minnesota, determined that there was probable cause that Don Lemon had committed a crime...”
— Clay Travis (05:44)

Political and Legal Implications for Don Lemon

• Both hosts argue that the arrest is probably a career boon for Lemon, making him a martyr in the eyes of fellow journalists and progressive circles.
• They predict that the process will be short-lived, ultimately dismissed, and result in immense publicity for Lemon, possibly leading to future opportunities at networks like MSNBC.

“Nobody loves their profession more than journalists love to argue that they have the most important profession on the planet. And so the regular journo crew is going to line up behind Don Lemon.”
— Clay Travis (06:49)

• The meaning and limits of the First Amendment in the context of protests and trespassing, especially compared to the Capitol riots on January 6th, are hotly debated.
• The hosts highlight that there’s a legal difference between covering a protest and actively participating in one; if Lemon was told to leave and refused, he crossed into trespassing.

“You don’t have a right to march into private locations and, and scream your First Amendment rights...there is no First Amendment issue here in what Don Lemon did...Lots of journalists dream, Buck, of actually being the target of people in power.”
— Clay Travis (11:28)

Parallels to January 6th and Other Legal Precedents

• Clay references several journalists charged for their presence in the Capitol on January 6th, noting that no one in mainstream media defended their “journalist” status as a shield.

“At least eight defendants...identified themselves as journalists or filmmakers on January 6th and were charged...All judges rejected their defense as saying they were journalists.”
— Clay Travis (26:41)

• Buck brings up David Daleiden, who was denied First Amendment protections for undercover journalism at Planned Parenthood, emphasizing inconsistency in how the law is applied.

Media and Public Reactions

• Clips and responses from Mika Brzezinski and Brian Stelter underscore the media’s tendency to frame Lemon as a victim of political targeting for his criticism of Trump.

“So he is a Trump foe. And this is another example of the administration targeting a Trump foe.”
— Brian Stelter (24:08)

• The hosts suggest liberal fallout over Lemon’s arrest is melodramatic, dubbing them “communists” and “flying the hammer and sickle at half-mast” (20:05).

The "Juice Isn't Worth the Squeeze"

• The hosts' recurring theme is that, in this instance, the attempt to prosecute Lemon may hurt the administration more than it helps—further energizing the opposition and boosting Lemon’s notoriety.
• Clay coins the episode title: “Sometimes the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. To me the juice isn’t worth the squeeze here.” (11:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Lemon benefiting from his arrest:

“This is the best thing that’s ever happened to Don Lemon in his entire professional career.”
— Clay Travis (06:49)

On differences in legal treatment:

“As far as I can see on that video...Don Lemon is trespassing. So if he trespassed, why is that going to be—well, clearly the grand jury thought so.”
— Buck Sexton (29:42)

On the First Amendment argument:

“People shout the First Amendment a lot...It’s not clear to me at all that Don Lemon, compared to what happened on January 6th and those defendants, has a stronger defense.”
— Buck Sexton (31:32)

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Engaging Callers: The Martha Stewart Debate & Lemon’s Notoriety

• A spirited debate about the effect criminal prosecution can have on celebrity careers, with Martha Stewart as a prime example; Clay asserts such notoriety aided Martha (17:24), while Buck is skeptical (17:15).
• Callers argue that, like Stewart, Don Lemon will ultimately profit from this controversy.
• The case of Jim Acosta is cited as another journalist who benefited from antagonism with Trump (18:39).

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:32–03:33: Trump’s executive orders, IndyCar in D.C., sports and spectacle.
• 04:07–08:55: Don Lemon’s arrest—media coverage, legal process, political implications.
• 11:28–14:14: Limits of the First Amendment, “juice not worth the squeeze.”
• 15:55–18:58: Caller debate—Martha Stewart, celebrity notoriety, press antagonism with power.
• 20:05–21:07: Liberal & media reaction to Lemon’s arrest.
• 23:43–33:09: Legal analysis—First Amendment precedents, January 6th, Planned Parenthood, journalistic privilege.
• 35:44–37:23: Callers react, including further support for the career-boosting effect of legal infamy.

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Takeaways

• The Lemon Arrest is Likely a Short-lived Legal Affair with Long-lasting Media Benefits: The hosts repeatedly argue the process will elevate Lemon’s status rather than damage it.
• Legal Nuance Around Journalism and Protest: The episode delves into complex constitutional questions, showing that the dividing line between protected journalism and criminal trespass is blurry and often politicized.
• Hypocrisy and Inconsistency in Media & Legal Responses: Clay and Buck argue that when it comes to journalists supporting their own, principles are selectively applied—Don Lemon’s defenders ignored similar cases involving right-leaning journalists.
• Pop Culture Parallels: From Martha Stewart to Jim Acosta to Donald Trump himself, the show examines how prosecution can bolster—not sink—careers, especially in today’s media climate.

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Next Hour Preview: Discussion shifts to the 3 million-page Epstein file release and what (if anything) listeners should expect from this massive data dump.

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Note: All timestamps are approximate for ease of listening reference. Ads and non-content segments have been omitted.

Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[NBC/Peacock Announcer]

Friday, February 6th. Kick off the Winter Olympics in style with the opening ceremony from Italy, featuring a special performance by Mariah Carey. Celebrate the greatest athletes from around the globe as they come together to go for gold. The opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics.

[Buck Sexton]

Ilia Malinin, redefining this sport.

[NBC/Peacock Announcer]

Friday, February 6th.

[Buck Sexton]

NBC and Peacock welcome, everybody. Friday edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show, also known as Clay and Buck to many of you across this land. We got a lot going on. It's a Friday, but it's very cold in some places. People are glued to their screens, their TVs, their radios, if they're in the car, if they're at home listening right now to the president signing, as we speak, executive orders in the Oval Office, including an executive order launching an IndyCar race in D.C. oh, that's super cool. It is cool. It's fascinating, isn't it? Whether it's the ballroom or the IndyCar race or perhaps even the MMA fight on the 250th anniversary of our nation's founding, which I believe that is also going to be a thing that happens with all of that going on. President Trump deciding to just do cool stuff. You can actually just do cool things as president that everyone can go, oh, wow, look at that. So we will discuss, we'll give you more of this. We've got a whole bunch of folks who are in the Oval Office right now, so there'll be some, some sound bites as we need it. But if you're really into IndyCar racing, Clay, when was the last time you watched an IndyCar race?

[Clay Travis]

I would say the Indianapolis 500. I should have.

[Buck Sexton]

I should have known. What do you mean? I was in the pens. I was helping change the oil.

[Clay Travis]

You know, I did, I wrote, I rode the track at the, at the Indy 500, which was really cool. I'd never been before. I got to ride around and I got to say, anyway, so not, not to big time it, but it was, it was pretty awesome.

[Buck Sexton]

And you know that I get, I get hate because whenever I go to a sports thing now, I usually am tagging along to one of your sports things. And people say that I haven't, like, earned it by going to much lesser games. So now people get mad at me. They're like, you just go to the national championship game.

[Caller/Listener]

You're.

[Buck Sexton]

It's like, I'm sorry I didn't go to the Little League games, too. Like, what do you want me to do? So anyway, but this is. It's It's a. It's a high class problem. What can I tell you? Uh, do you. Are you pulling something off the screen right now? Cause we gotta talk. Don Lamont. Don't worry, guys.

[Clay Travis]

We're getting to Don Lemon. No, I'm just trying to check and see who's actually in the Oval talking right now about all the different things that are going on.

[Buck Sexton]

We have Sean. Sean Duffy, who's honestly one of just the nicest guys. He's so nice. Yeah, I'm a big. I like Sean Duffy. Really good dude. Transportation Secretary Doug Burgum, the Secretary of the Interior. Some dudes with white hair who I think are executives of sports and. Or media is my guess just based on looking at them and their suits. That's who I've got. But we've got Duffy talking right now, and we've got Burgum in there and Trump signing some Eos. Indy car race in D.C. that's, by the way, a great idea. Really cool. I mean, why not do some sporting events like this in DC they should do an F1 race in DC if they actually set it up properly, it would be really cool to do that.

[Clay Travis]

D.C. is actually a great place to have a race because the boulevards are so wide and were designed, you know, as you well know, before any cars existed, but modeled after great European capitals. And so it's actually the perfect place. I mean, they have the ability, I think, way better than most to be able to fit all this in. So pretty. Pretty awesome. Cool thing. But, yes, let's. It's Friday. We're going to have some fun with all of you. But the Don Lemon story broke this morning, and everybody has got so many takes now.

[Buck Sexton]

I told Clay, I said, I actually have Don Lemon's phone number. Do I text Don Lemon and ask him for a comment on this? I'm. I'm not. I'm not sure. I think he'll probably. If he hasn't blocked me. Well, I've never. I haven't texted him in, like, 10 years. But if he hasn't blocked me, I don't think he'll respond. He might respond with something colorful.

[Clay Travis]

He. He's.

[Buck Sexton]

He knows that I am not a fan of his work, but we'll see. I'm.

[Clay Travis]

I'm thinking about it.

[Buck Sexton]

I usually don't antagonize people that I have their personal phone number. I'm not trying to antagonize. I really do just want a statement like, I want to know, and maybe he wants to share it. Uh, but I'm. I'm thinking about it. And in the meantime, let's just set the table, my friends. Attorney General Pam Bondi put this out on X. It's amazing. Now X is basically replaced. Remember the old days when the White House would just, like WhiteHouse.gov would put out a statement and everybody would have to repaste? It just comes out on X now. Uh, but Attorney General Pam Bondi, at my direction. Early this morning, federal agents arrested Don Lamond Trahern, Gene Cruz, Georgia Fort and Jamail Lidell Lundy in connection with the coordinated attack on city's church in St. Paul, Minnesota. More details soon. Clay, there is, oh, my gosh, a lot of left wing lunatic anger in the air right now over this one. We will give you more on the Don Lamont arrest from the media, but for right now, your top level reaction, sir, to journalist in quotes Don Lamond, now a national communist hero.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, so my. My biggest takeaway is, and I think it's important, and you're not hearing any of the discussion surrounding this at all. A grand jury indicted Don Lemon. So this was not some sort of grand executive decision by Pam Bondi or anybody in the Department of Justice. The grand jury in a blue state, Minnesota, determined that there was probable cause that Don Lemon had committed a crime and issued an indictment for which he was arrested in California. No one is talking about this. Everybody is skipping right over it. I know it's a little bit of a legal procedural nerd take, but a grand jury had to indict Don Lemon. The President of the United States did not wave a magic wand. Pam Bondi did not wave a magic wand. This was necessary to happen in order for him to be arrested. Okay, that's point one. I think that's significant. Point two, this is the best thing that's ever happened to Don Lemon in his entire professional career.

[Buck Sexton]

I know.

[Clay Travis]

And so everybody is exalting out there who dislikes Don Lemon and everything else. If I had been asked, if I had been asked, Clay, how is this going to play out? Is this going to be beneficial to Republicans or is it going to be beneficial to Democrats and to Don Lemon personally? It's going to be the best thing that ever happened to Don Lemon's career. And let me say this, Buck. If you or I got arrested for something that we did that we could argue was in any way related to journalism by a Democrat president, it would be the best thing that could happen to our careers, too. Because nobody loves their profession more than journalists love to argue that they have the most important profession on the planet. And so the regular journo crew is going to line up behind Don Lemon. I do not think we are gaining a massive beneficial outcome, personally, from Don Lemon being arrested. You tweeted this, too. I think we're in similar cahoots on this. Um, look, some judge is going to dismiss the indictment, going to say that Don Lemon is, you know, is. Is not going to be held accountable for this. He's never going to prison. He's never going to jail. They're not putting him in solitary confinement. I understand the perspective under which people want there to be accountability. I'm not diminishing that. I'm just saying the practical impact of this, I think, is more negative for Trump and the DOJ than the benefit that is gained by indicting Don Lemon. And I'm not even going into the particulars of did he or did he not commit this crime? Because I think it's likely that he did. I'm just saying the consequences for him will be incredibly beneficial, and the negative impact of this will be very minimal. And I don't like that balancing of the equation, if that makes sense. How would you take it? That's my big picture, you know, legal and political sort of analysis writ large.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, Lawyer Clay, I think, did an excellent job there, Counselor. I think that Vanderbilt Law School education has suited you well today. I think that that's all accurate. Look, there's a case to be made for many of you have been making this case as well that the process is the punishment. We're just here to warn you that this process will probably be very short lived. Therefore, the punishment will be very short lived. And actually, the payoff for Don Lemon is likely to be immense for his. What does Don Lemon want? Don Lemon was making millions of dollars a year when he was at cnn. And my sense is, you know, he's got a house in the Hamptons. He's got a fancy place in New York. You know, he's got plenty of money. He wants to be back in the game. He wants to be the center of attention. You know, this is a guy. I don't think he has any kids. I think he is married, but I don't think he has any kids.

[Clay Travis]

I think that's.

[Buck Sexton]

This is a guy who. There's nothing better for him in this moment in time than everybody talking about him. And I can tell you he loves attention. I know Don Lemon. He loves attention. So this is unfortunately going to, I think, play into his brand in a big way. However, I see the other side of this too, which is the administration's got to try because he, I think he did break the law. Clearly. So did a grand jury. As you pointed out, so does the doj. I don't think you're allowed to just go along with some gang of maniacs and disturb and menace a church service. And by the way, I don't think you should be able to do that at any church. The most left wing, you know, trans flags on the outside, you know, non denominational church in the middle of Portland, Oregon. Or you know, like a pretty conservative, you know, old school Latin mass, Catholic, just like I don't care. I don't want anyone to be able to do that. You don't have a right to do that. It's not free speech. So I do understand bringing the, or pulling the levers that are there to try to get some kind of a punishment. I think we're just realists here. But Clay, we'll see. We'll see. There are some federal Trump judge, federally appointed Trump judges who maybe could be in the mix here. I think there are, there's one or two in Minneapolis. So also goes to remind everybody how the judge appointment thing is so important, it's so critical. Sometimes we talk about it and I think it sounds a little like wah, wah to people because we're sitting here and we do politics for a living. But trust me, whether you get an Obama or Biden appointee or a Trump appointee, if you go before a court in civil or criminal court, Clay, it makes all the difference. It really does. With what kind of law you're being presented with.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, a hundred percent it does. And by the way, we'll open up phone lines because 800-282-28A2. I do think the significance here again is that a grand jury indicted him and that he likely committed a crime. But the, this is a play that, that sometimes makes sense in all facets, but particularly given the guy's last name is Lemon, sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze. It's a cliche. To me, the juice isn't worth the squeeze here. And by the way, for people out there who say, oh, this is a First Amendment, you, the lack of ability to understand content based restrictions on where you can actually protest it blows my mind. You don't have a right to march into private locations and, and scream your First Amendment rights. You don't have the right to walk onto somebody's front lawn of their house and stand there on their front porch screaming your Political opinion. And so, to me, there is no First Amendment issue here in what Don Lemon did. I'm sure that he's going to try to wrap himself in the First Amendment and defend himself that way. And lots of journalists dream, Buck, of actually being the target of people in power. So this is not only Don Lemon's fever dream, this is the fever dream of every journalist in America to be arrested in a manner like this, where they can drape themselves in victimization, get all their name in the headlines. Don Lemon is going to end up making way more money about this. You tweeted that he might end up getting a job on msnbc. It wouldn't stun me at all. This is the greatest thing that could happen to Don Lemon's career. Uh, by the way, President Trump is taking questions right now live on cnn. I'm sure he'll be asked about this, and that will further this story. There's also, we should mention 3 million pages of Epstein files that have been released today. Both Buck and I would be stunned beyond belief if there's anything of any substantial nature in those 3 million pages. But it is worth mentioning for everybody screaming about the Epstein files. Three million more pages, thousands of videos, all of that stuff being released as well. Um, and anyway, we'll continue to take your calls and we will react to everything and allow you to react to everything. But this, to me, again, I just think the juice not worth the squeeze. I think Benef Don Lemon benefits more than anyone in the Trump administration or anyone who believes in the Trump administration's perspective, which you and I clearly do, benefits.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Making America great again isn't just one man, it' many. The Team 47 podcast, Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NBC/Peacock Announcer]

Friday, February 6th, kick off the Winter Olympics in style with the opening ceremony from Italy featuring a special performance by Mariah Carey. Celebrate the greatest athletes from around the globe as they come together to go for gold. The opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics. Ilya Malin, redefining the sport, Friday, February 6th, on NBC.

[Clay Travis]

And Peacock, welcome back in Clay. Travis Buck Sexton Show. We are rolling through the program Friday edition. A lot of people weighing in. We got a call already, Don in Stuart, Florida here you got to take Don on. Don Lemon, Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Just wondering, you suggested that maybe Don Lemon's move is suggesting that crime pays.

[Clay Travis]

Oh, 100%. Thank you for the call that's going to pay for him. I mean, the reality is, Buck, if you are famous enough, you know, Martha Stewart, if anything, being imprisoned for insider trading only helped her because it made her more famous. Now, if you're going to be put in prison for years like Diddy or someone of that nature, I think that the, the impact can be super negative. But being charged with crimes, when your audience thinks that you shouldn't have been charged with crimes, I think a lot of times it benefits you. I think Trump benefited from, I think.

[Buck Sexton]

If you're a rapper and you're arrested for weapons possession, it does, I don't think Martha Stewart going away for six months was, was good for her.

[Clay Travis]

Oh, I think it, I think Martha Stewart is more famous now and makes more money because she was insider trading.

[Buck Sexton]

I think she was already like a, like presiding over a multi billion dollar empire for people that wanted to make pies and make their napkins look nice for dinner parties.

[Clay Travis]

But you, you girls knew that the average dude had didn't know anything about Martha Stewart. Now she's in every super bowl commercial and everybody knows her notoriety.

[Buck Sexton]

She's in the midst of a comeback, I think still. Anyway, we don't have to get too.

[Clay Travis]

Deep in the Martha Stewart thing, but that's Martha's. We disagree on Martha Stewart's career trajectory, as you all expected on the Friday edition.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, I think, I think peak Martha Stewart was early 2000s, correct me.

[Clay Travis]

If I'm wrong, but that I think she's peaking now. I think she's more famous and makes more money now just because she's doing the sports.

[Buck Sexton]

I don't, I don't know. Way I don't.

[Clay Travis]

She's. I had no idea who Martha Stewart was in 2003. I feel like everybody knows Martha Stewart now.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, Clay, given that you told us that you don't boil water at home, I'm pretty sure that Martha Stewart was not someone you were spending a lot of time reading, eating in the early 2000s.

[Clay Travis]

If you can't put it in a microwave, I don't really know what the point is. So, yes, I don't think it's true that I was. Of all the people in America, I am definitely outside of the Martha Stewart target range. I don't know that I've ever consumed her content.

[Buck Sexton]

But think about someone like here, the Don Lamond thing that comes to mind with this would be, and I know that it's not a criminal issue, but remember when that guy, the CNN White House correspondent was lost his hard pass to get into the White House.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. Jim Acosta. Right?

[Buck Sexton]

Jim Acosta. Jim Acosta is like, it's tyranny. It's tyranny. There's better. Best thing for Jim Acosta's career at the time that ever happened to him was Trump yelling at him and saying he was a jerk. No question about it.

[Clay Travis]

100%. 100%. These people dream of being antagonists for people in power like Trump.

[Buck Sexton]

Trump, in some ways the best example of all of this. They brought four prosecutions against him, and I've never seen the base so motivated to get behind one candidate. They didn't even want a primary. They're like, it's Trump.

[Clay Travis]

Everyone be quiet.

[Buck Sexton]

It's Trump.

[Clay Travis]

Not even just the base buck. He won the popular vote. He's the best example of getting charged and then benefiting from it. Look, got to tell you, chalk can make a huge difference for everybody out there. It's Friday. Are you headed into the weekend and you're already thinking, oh, man, we got a lot of things we got to do on Friday night. Saturday, Sunday, kids, grandkids, whatever you've got to keep up with. Chalk can help restore your natural energy with a 20% increase in your testosterone. If you take it, it's all natural and it can make a huge difference in three months time for you. Check it out. This month only when you subscribe with my name Clay as the promo code, you get a free $99 bag of chalk lit powder with your first delivery. That's chok.com my name clay chalk.com code clay.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. So get ready for the libs to be flying the the UN flag at half staff all across the country. They're very upset. Don Lemon has been arrested. Very sad. The communist the, the hammer and sickle will be flying at half master. Very upset about this. Don Lemon facing charges for his role. Mika Brzezinski fresh off the croquet course and ordering around her servants. But she cares about the people here she is telling everybody that Don Lemon was just doing what journalists do. This is cut three breaking news for you.

[Caller/Listener]

Former CNN anchor Don Lemon was arrested late last night on federal charges tied to a protest earlier this month at a Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. Lemon says he was reporting as a journalist when demonstrators interrupted a service to protest immigration enforcement.

[Buck Sexton]

Lemon says he was, he was, he was just filed the protestant to cover it. Clay had had no part of it whatsoever. What is the difference between somebody covering and being a part of in this context? This is what we're have, we're going to have to get into.

[Clay Travis]

Well, that's the league, the entire legal argument. Right. He is going to say I was. And this is why again, I don't think the juice was worth the squeeze. He's going to argue all I was doing was following in these protesters. It's the job of a journalist to be doing this. Now here is an easy question that I think would be interesting to see how it was applied. And I don't know, frankly, if there are any precedents. Some of you might, Julie Kelly probably certainly would. Maybe we can reach out to her on this front. Ali and producer Ali and you can see what her take is on this and maybe she would want to come on. Were there any right wing journalists that were charged related to January 6th who argued as part of their defense? I wasn't there to protest. I was not trespassing as a January 6er. I was merely there broadcasting the live stream of the events that were taking place there because that's honestly the precedent that I would say would apply on some level here. Now, obviously, church versus United States Capitol, those are different dynamics because there is traditionally lots of news that comes out of the United States Capitol. I would argue that being there is much more akin to a newsworthy location than being inside of a church. This is the lawyer in me analyzing the facts in real time. But are there any examples of January six defendants who argued, hey, I was charged and I'm actually in the process of journalism There, I don't know the answer. That would be an easy precedent that you could potentially look at and say, okay, how was that treated? I guarantee you that CNN and MSNBC didn't say, oh my goodness, Joe Biden is destroying the First Amendment. If any of these individuals were charged associated with January 6th, then again, maybe we can get Julie Kelly on this because I feel like that argument had to be made by some people who got caught up in the wash on Jan.6 because there were a lot of people who were podcasters or reporters that would have been in that crowd. I'm curious if that argument was made or how it worked.

[Buck Sexton]

You know who we haven't heard from in a while. It's been a while since he's made an appearance on the show. Brian Stelter, everybody. He is a constitutional scholar, a journalist extraordinaire, and a man who will make your testosterone levels drop with the mere sound of his voice. Here he is on the administration's targeting of a Trump foe. This is Cut five Play.

[Brian Stelter]

I view this in context with Trump administration attempts to target other perceived critics. Think about Letitia James, think about James Comey. Don Lemon is another figure on that list. President Trump has repeatedly attacked Lemon, both when Lemon was an anchor here at cnn. But again, more recently, Trump has made no secret of his disdain for Lemon. And Lemon, of course, has been harshly critical of President Trump for many years as well. So he is a Trump foe. And this is another example of the administration targeting a Trump foe. And you're going to see some people on the MAGA right who are going to chee at the same time, many First Amendment groups are going to say this has a real chill because Lemon walked in. Yes. With a microphone and a camera to document what happened at the church. And frankly, I think viewers are better off for him having told us what happened in the church that day.

[Buck Sexton]

Now this, this gets, this gets interesting, Clay, because I can tell you that a lot of direct action elements of antifa, of black bloc, of these different left wings paramilitaries, if you will. These, you know, direct action elements, people that break laws, don't engage in open, outright lethal violence as part of their political agenda, but they're sort of like less than lethal terrorists, I would say, right? They'll, they'll break stuff, they'll punch cops, they'll spit at them, but they don't. Here's the thing. A lot of the people that are at those protests and involved in all of that, their job is to document it and to egg it on. Right? I mean, if you see any time there's people who are there and they have this stuff and they're saying, yeah, you know, get them or do this or do that, you know, it's. It's. Where is the line here between being a part of a movement, a direct action like this, or being somebody who's just there? You know, I even had this, for example, when I would go back when I used to work at the Blaze. And I did. That's right. I did media, like journal journalism coverage, stuff. Like, I just. I would write it up. I would. And I would go, clay, if I held up a placard and was chanting. I mean, I have a First Amendment right to do that, but I'm definitely a part of the protest then, right? We all know I'm not a journalist now. Now I'm a part of it. This is. The line here is very. The line here is very blurry. I hate to say it, actually, I don't hate to say it, but the line here is very blurry with the Don Lemon situation. How do you assess that? Like, what's the legal test for if Don Lemon's there on video and he's like waving everybody in, he's like, come on guys, let's go. Like, yeah, you know, helping people line up to shout and interrupt the service. How is he any different from the people interrupting the service?

[Clay Travis]

Now here is Grok, which I just did real research. Julie Kelly, by the way, says she can join us to discuss this. According to Grok, at least eight defendants, citing the Associated Press, identified themselves as journalists or filmmakers on January 6th and were charged they were affiliated with non mainstream sources like infowars, right wing sites or self described activist media outlets. Elliot Resnick, former editor of the Jewish press, was charged, later pled guilty with obstructing law enforcement during the riot. Prosecutors stated he was not acting as a journalist that day. John Earl Sullivan, activist who sometimes filmed events, and others faced charges after entering the building. They said that these cases involved people entered the Capitol, unlawfully impeded officers or engaged in disorderly conduct. And so they were. All judges rejected their defense as saying they were journalists.

[Buck Sexton]

Now this is also people. Yeah, this is interesting too, Clay, because you're going to get into. We'll have Julie Kelly on to talk about this. That's very important context that they. And you know, I'm just going to say this, Julie Kelly, we would have her on this show, but we were a show who was talking about the plight of. And yes, Clay even donated to their legal defense. Well done, Mr. Clay. We were all, we were, we did not forget the J6 prisoners. Just taking them, a lot of everyone now, now that Trump won and everything else. You go back, you go back to the darkest days of the Biden White House. And we were talking about the plight of J6 prisoners here day in and day out, day in and day out. So I, I, I just think that there's a moment here. And all of you know, those of you who've been with us, we're coming up on our five year anniversary. We, we were on that because it was the right thing to do. And we were on that from the beginning. So anyway, back to this situation with Don Lemon. Now he's, it's different insofar as they were claiming that the moment they went past, now I know, please, there's going to be this. They went past the barricades, but they were invited past the barricades. I get all of that. The claim will be made, though, that Don Lemon was allowed to be on the premises even though it's private Property, whereas the J6 people were inherently trespassing. I think they're, they'll try to make that distinction as this moves along. I'm not sure that that's a valid distinction. I'm just saying, I think that's one thing they'll say. But Don Lemon antagonizing that priest when he has been told to leave. Don Lemon, the moment that pre said, I want you to leave and Don Lemon stays there. You don't have a first amendment right. Actually, you are a trespasser now. So Don Lemon, as far as I can see on that video, Clay, and you, you know, give me your legal hat analysis here. Don Lemon is trespassing. So if he trespassed, why is that going to be? Well, clearly the grand jury thought so.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, look, I actually think that cuts against Don Lemon because as a general rule, news occurs at the Capitol all the time and journalists are covering news related events in the Capitol all the time. Has there been a news related event that has occurred in that church in years? I, I would be doubtful that that is the case. So when I look at a trespassing allegation, I think one of the first things you would ask is, okay, is the place that was trespassed regularly involved in news related aspects? When the answer is yes, then to me it's much more colorable to claim you are a journalist. In other words, Buck, if I went into a school in the middle of a day, and as a journalist, I trespassed into that school. I think it would be harder. Let's say there's a protest going on and the kids are out on the street and then they go back into the school and I followed those kids in. As a journalist, I think it would be harder for me to argue inside of the school. Oh, I'm a journalist. I have the right to enter this location where otherwise I would have no reason to enter as opposed to a city hall or as opposed to a place a legislature or a place of typical public news. I actually think these, this, the Capitol, the Jan6 defendants have a better argument than Lemon. And I also think where you're affiliated by it might not be fair but is an impact as well. If you're at CNN or the New York Times, then, then Don Lemon would have a better defense than donlemon.com or whatever the heck his news organization is now.

[Buck Sexton]

Now also we'll remind the all of you who are have been in the pro life fight here for a long time. You will recall some years ago, David delayden who did these series of undercover videos in Planned Parenthood conferences and even some abortion clinics. And Clay the 9th Circuit held against him. He was sued by Planned Parenthood. The claim was that they were citizen journalists and they got millions and millions of views for what they did. And the reason Planned Parenthood was so upset was because people were actually seeing what goes on in those clinics and what people say about the tiny babies that are being chopped up. So but they gave them no protection whatsoever for using subterfuge in undercover journalism to get access to those conferences and those facilities. So, you know, using fake names, fake signatures, you know, things like that, they said no, sorry, undercover journalism or not, you're liable for whatever damages to Planned Parenthood's reputation. So you know, people, people shout the First Amendment a lot like that's like that. It's like shouting the Constitution. Ok, well what does that really mean though? It's not clear to me, not clear to me at all that Don Lemon, compared to what happened on January 6th and those defendants, Don Lemon has a stronger defense than they did. It's not. I see a lot of similarity.

[Clay Travis]

I think it's weaker because again, I think the location, just to be clear.

[Buck Sexton]

I would co sign that I think it's weaker.

[Clay Travis]

And by the way, did anyone in left wing media defend, maybe I missed it, those eight individuals who argued that they were journalists or filmmakers and again, they were not affiliated with major news organizations, but neither is Don Lemon. So I think this story we can hear from some lawyers out there. I think the story is actually pretty fascinating and one of the rare occurrences where legally I am truly intrigued by by how this would play out. I think Julie Kelly is going to join us. We'll ask her because she's really the expert on all these charges that were brought, but I don't remember the New York Times or CNN or MSNBC even mentioning any of these individuals when they were charged by the Biden Administration. Total Towers foundation supports America's greatest heroes. These include the U.S. service members and first responders who died or have been severely injured in the line of duty, as well as homeless veterans. The Foundation's Gold Star Fallen First Responder, Smart Home and Homeless Veteran programs honor the sacrifices made for us by the men and women who risked their lives and bodies for our country and our communities. The Foundations Never Forget Programs engaged thousands of people in 911 remembrance across America through hundreds of runs, walks and climbs and golf outings every single year. In fact, I'm going to be down in March engaged in an event with Tunnel to Towers as I often do. I was up in October for an event with Tunnel the Towers. Try to do everything I can to help them raise money. Their 911 Institute helps teachers educate children in kindergarten through 12th grade about America's darkest day, enabling our nation to keep its vow to never forget. Help support Tunnel the Towers and its important programs. Never forget 911 or the sacrifices of our country's greatest heroes on that day and thereafter. The if you haven't yet supported Tunnel the Towers all the good work they do. Join us in donating $11 a month to Tunnel the Towers at t2t.org that's T the number two t.org geek out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with Clay and Buck podcast, a new episode every Sunday. Find it on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NBC/Peacock Announcer]

Friday, February 6th kick off the Winter Olympics in style with the opening ceremony from Italy featuring a special performance by Mariah Carey. Celebrate the greatest athletes from around the globe as they come together to go for gold. Lipsy for Sensational the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics. Ilya Malinin redefining this sport Friday, February 6th on NBC and Peacock welcome back.

[Clay Travis]

In play Travis Buc Sexton Show A lot of people wanting to weigh in as we always try do on the Friday edition of the program. But again, I'm trying to research this in real time and I think the best response is honestly going to be for anyone who is arguing first Amendment. What about the journalist eight of them who were charged by the Biden administration for entering the Capitol on January 6th. I actually think it's a. It's a really interesting precedent that anyone who is truly examining this in the light of the arrest today would have to acknowledge. But. But a lot of people want to weigh in. Let's run through some of these calls as we finish off the first hour, and then we're going to talk. Some 3 million pages of the Epstein files have been released. Hundreds of thousands of pictures and videos as well. We'll talk on that a little bit at the top of the next hour. But, Matthew, in Weatherford, Oklahoma, the big debate, the big disagreement of hour one. Martha Stewart. What you got for us, Matthew?

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, Martha Stewart, she's white collar gangster. That's why she hangs with Snoop Dogg.

[Clay Travis]

So you agree with me that she benefited from the charges?

[Buck Sexton]

Get out of here. Oh, she did, Yeah. I mean, before. Before she went to prison, the old. Only people that watched her were old ladies watching her cooking shows. But after that, I mean, everybody knew she was synonymous with being a white collar gangster.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, thanks for the call. I think Matthew's 100% right. I've always agreed with the people of Oklahoma. They have great, great skills at discerning arguments. Kelly in upstate New York, what you got for us? Kelly?

[Caller/Listener]

Hi. Okay, so I watched the Dom Lemon video, and he walked with them to the church. He was outside congregating with them at the church. So to me, him walking in that church would be no different than one of the protesters pulling out their cell phone and recording it. But with that being said, how come all those other protesters haven't been arrested as well? Why are they focusing just on him?

[Clay Travis]

Well, I think they have charged around seven or eight people, if I'm not mistaken. Buck, I know they arrested three, then they got five more. I think it's eight people total have been charged. I don't know exactly how many people entered that church. And. And I'm not sure the totalities, but yes, eight total, for sure. Which is. Which is certainly.

[Buck Sexton]

Are you gonna take us into the Epstein's file release next, Mr. Clay?

[Clay Travis]

Yes, I'm gonna talk about the Epstein files. So everybody out there obsessed. Why don't you talk about the Epstein files? This is your dream come true. We're gonna talk about the Epstein files.

[Buck Sexton]

I don't know if they all sound like that.

[Clay Travis]

That was what the Epstein file people sound like. Yes, I think so.

[Buck Sexton]

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