Hour 1 - The Best of Clay and Buck

Summary

Podcast Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Host/Authors: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton
Episode: Hour 1 - The Best of Clay and Buck
Release Date: July 4, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In the inaugural episode of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into pressing issues surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic, media integrity, and personal development. The episode features insightful interviews with investigative journalist David Zweig and Fox News' Dana Perino, offering listeners a blend of political analysis and practical life advice.

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Interview with David Zweig: Unveiling Pandemic Policies

Timestamp: [02:49]
Guest: David Zweig, Investigative Journalist and Author

Clay and Buck welcome David Zweig to discuss his new book, An Abundance of Caution: American Schools, the Virus, and a Story of Bad Decisions. Zweig provides a critical examination of the public policy responses during the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly focusing on the prolonged closure of public schools in the United States.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Initial Pandemic Response and School Closures

   • Zweig's Motivation: Zweig shares his personal observations of his children's struggles with remote learning, prompting him to research the necessity of prolonged school closures.
   • European Comparison: He highlights that while European schools reopened by mid-2020 without significant negative consequences ([05:28]), U.S. public schools remained closed, exacerbating educational disparities.

2. Shift in Medical Guidance Under Political Pressure

   • American Academy of Pediatrics Turnaround: Initially advocating for immediate school reopenings, the academy revised its stance under political influence, emphasizing financial concerns over public health ([09:27]).
   • Suppression of Dissent: Zweig recounts how many medical professionals voiced concerns about the policies but were silenced by institutional pressures.

3. Media Complicity and Legacy Media Trust

   • Manufactured Consensus: The media perpetuated the establishment's narrative without adequately questioning or presenting opposing evidence, leading to a misinformed public.
   • Impact on Public Perception: Zweig argues that this undermined trust in legacy media, as individuals who sought alternative viewpoints were labeled negatively ([21:06]).

Notable Quotes:

• Zweig on Media Failure: “Journalists shirked their core duty, which was to actually question the statements by those in power.” ([11:45])
• On Institutional Pressure: “When I contacted the CDC, they told me there were no errors, even though the data clearly told a different story.” ([12:58])

Conclusion of Interview:

Zweig emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and evidence-based decision-making, urging listeners to question established narratives and seek the truth beyond mainstream media portrayals. His book serves as both a historical account and a guide for future crises management.

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Interview with Dana Perino: Building a Great Career and Meaningful Life

Timestamp: [23:42]
Guest: Dana Perino, Former White House Press Secretary and Author

In the second segment, Dana Perino discusses her latest book, I Wish Someone Had Told Me: The Best Advice for Building a Great Career and a Meaningful Life. Drawing from her extensive career in politics and personal experiences, Perino offers actionable advice for achieving professional success and personal fulfillment.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Balancing Career and Personal Life

   • Work-Life Integration: Perino emphasizes the importance of intentionality in balancing professional ambitions with personal relationships and family life.
   • Personal Anecdotes: She shares her experience of meeting her husband on an airplane and the life-changing decision to prioritize love over career apprehensions ([33:21]).

2. Overcoming Anxiety and Decision-Making

   • Practical Advice: Perino advises readers to assess the worst and best-case scenarios when facing anxiety-inducing decisions, noting that often the reality falls between extremes ([35:47]).
   • Stoic Philosophy: The discussion touches on Stoic principles, resonating with the idea that “we suffer more in imagination than in reality.”

3. Mentorship and Continuous Learning

   • Guidance for Young Professionals: Perino highlights the value of seeking mentorship and being open to evolving one’s career path based on changing life circumstances.

Notable Quotes:

• On Taking Risks: “Ask yourself, what is the worst thing that could happen to you if it fails?” ([28:15])
• On Self-Investment: “Investing in yourself and in meaningful relationships can significantly enhance both your personal and professional life.” ([32:04])

Conclusion of Interview:

Perino encourages listeners to embrace uncertainty, prioritize meaningful connections, and maintain a balanced perspective between ambition and personal well-being. Her insights aim to empower individuals to navigate career paths with confidence and purpose.

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Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Throughout the episode, both interviews underscore the themes of questioning established narratives and striving for personal growth amidst societal challenges. David Zweig's critique of pandemic policies and media inertia serves as a call for greater accountability and transparency, while Dana Perino's guidance provides practical steps for personal and professional development.

Overall Notable Quote:

• Zweig on Preparedness: “You can't say stuff without providing evidence.” ([12:58])

• Perino on Life Choices: “Choosing to be loved is not a career-limiting decision. It actually made all the difference for me.” ([33:21])

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Conclusion

"Hour 1 - The Best of Clay and Buck" successfully combines investigative journalism with motivational discourse, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of recent historical decisions and their long-term impacts, alongside actionable advice for personal success. By featuring guests like David Zweig and Dana Perino, the show sets a strong foundation for future episodes that promise both depth and practical insights.

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Note: Advertisements and promotional segments were omitted to focus solely on the core content and discussions of the episode.

Transcript

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And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor.

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[Christiana Amanpour]

This is the best of with Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. We are joined now by David Zweig, investigative journalist and author. He's got a brand new book. I think you guys are going to love it. I've already started to check it out. We've got it at the home. Buck is holding it up right now. An abundance of Caution, American Schools, the Virus, and a Story of Bad Decisions. David, thanks for joining us in our New York City studio. I know we've had you on before, and I think it's fair to say that a lot of your reporting was not necessarily well received by people on the left and that you are not some far right wing conspiracist conspiracy theorist. You just did something wild. You looked at the data and you were willing to write about what the data showed. And you were, as Buck and I have both been, profoundly angered and still angry over the failures of American public policy as it pertains to Covid. What pushed you to write this book and what do you hope that people take from it?

[Jamie Rubin]

That's a very good assessment. Yeah. In the beginning, very early on, it seemed reasonable to me. I wasn't knowledgeable about what was happening. I live right outside New York City. Okay, the schools are closed, everything's shut down. But very quickly after that, I watched my kids just wilting away in the kind of the gray light of their Chromebooks, sitting alone in their bedrooms. And I was like, this isn't going to work for a long period of time like this. This. How can this be? And from there I just started kind of researching and digging in. I was in the middle of writing a book on a totally different topic at the time, but this was just so crazy what was happening. I wanted to learn more about what was going on. And very quickly I started to speak with experts in Europe and elsewhere because you couldn't speak to them in the United States. And it was very obvious that there was no reason for the schools to remain closed. And that kind of set me off on this path. And as you noted, this very much was, you know, what was termed a contrarian view against the establishment. And it was certainly a challenging position for me writing for mainstream publications to get my reporting in. There But I pulled it off. And I think people kind of perceive me, I think it's true, as basically the only guy who's really able to do that. To write a number of pieces, they were all backed by evidence showing why the establishment view was so wrong.

[Riley Herbst]

David, you said something I want to return to if I can. You said that there was no reason for. For the schools to be closed. There was no medical reason for the schools to be closed. But I am sure in the course of your research you found a whole slew of non medical reasons or rationales or horse trading that led to the continuation of public school closures. While, you know, I grew up in New York City, so I know that system pretty well. Went to Catholic school there. There's private schools, parochial schools. Public schools, parochial and private, were open for business in that fall after the initial pandemic. And yet public schools were remote.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Why?

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that's so remarkable and it's almost astonishing that this actually happened in real time. And it's kind of one of the main reasons of why I wrote this book was to make sure that what happened isn't just memory hold. And the idea, as you noted, kids were in school in private schools. They were in school in red districts and in red states, while at the same time a kid could be down the block in public school and he was kept home while his best friend in a different area or went to private school was in school every day. So the irony to me is that on the left, which traditionally perceives itself as being the heroes of the underprivileged in our society, they championed the rules and the guidelines and the policies that actually harmed underprivileged kids the most. And it's like one of the most tragic ironies of the pandemic to me, that this was the result that you had people vigorously. It wasn't just advocating, but as you know, anyone who disagreed was immediately vilified. You were some right wing crank. You were a piece of garbage if you disagreed with them.

[Riley Herbst]

Well, I mean, I am a right wing crank, so I can imagine what it would be like for you being a one.

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah, I was a turncoat.

[Riley Herbst]

You're not one.

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah, I was Benedict Arnold here. I was immediately cast aside. I was called a murderer. How could you do this? One of the things that's so important, and this is kind of like the original sin that I talk about in the book. At the end of April and the beginning of May in 2020, schools began to open in Europe and It's not just like some little school in Tibet somewhere with 12 kids. We're talking about. Millions of kids were back in school. And the European Union, the education ministers met in May, and at that meeting, they said, we have observed no negative consequences of opening our schools. They met a second time in June. They had the same determination. No one reported this. I ultimately reported it myself in June. But this is kind of an astonishing thing. This wasn't a random blog. This wasn't an obscure medical journal. This is the European Union. And their official announcement regarding opening schools where millions of kids were in. There was. There was no negative consequence. And as far as I am aware, no one in the U.S. media reported on this meeting. That sort of set things on the course, you know, where we were just kind of never to come back from that.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Okay, so I want. That's an important point. I want you to expound upon something that happened that a lot of people have forgotten in June of 2020. And I may get the official name wrong, but it was like the American association of Pediatricians or something like that, said schools needed to open back up and we could do it safely. That was a big story in June. And then Randy Weingarten and the American Federation of Teachers somehow kind of got into their universe and they ended up. You probably. I'm sure it's in the book.

[Jamie Rubin]

It is.

[Christiana Amanpour]

They ended up reversing their guidance. What do you think now when you see Randy Weingarten going around on show saying, oh, I never said that I wanted schools to be shut down. What does the evidence show us? And how important was it from a science perspective for those pediatricians? And I remember their argument being, David, correct me if I'm wrong, that while the virus wasn't going to go away, kids had far more to gain by being in school than they did to fear from the virus. That was June of 2020. And then they completely reverse themselves under political pressure.

[Jamie Rubin]

So what happened was the American Academy of Pediatrics put out guidance that was unambiguous. It said, we've got to get kids in school. Don't even worry about six feet of distancing. If you can do it, great, but if you can't, don't worry. Just three feet is fine. Whatever. Just get the kids in the building. Shortly thereafter, Donald Trump tweeted, we must open schools in the fall. All caps with a bunch of exclamation points. Within days, the American Academy of Pediatrics put out a new statement. Gone was any mention of don't worry about distancing Gone was the idea of get kids in school no matter what. And instead they mentioned money. It's really important for a lot of money to flow to schools. And then the second important thing about that revised statement was who authored it. And it wasn't just the American Academy of Pediatrics. It was co authored with the two largest teachers unions in the country. It was so stark what happened that even NPR reported on this. But I gotta tell you, this is part of a larger thing. And I talk about this a lot in the book where I show this behind the scenes thing that was going on. So as I started writing these articles challenging the sort of dogma and the establishment view, people started reaching out to me from around the country. Parents, regular people, but also a lot of doctors. And these are doctors, not just some suburban pediatrician, but people who are at elite institutions, our top, you know, university hospitals in the country. And they were saying, saying, hey, thank you so much for writing this. I just want you to know I think it's terrible what's happening with kids. I think these policies for keeping schools closed and these mask mandates, there isn't good evidence behind this. Schools are open in Europe, all these things. And they said, but all this has to be off the record because they were afraid to be cast out by their peers. Or in many instances, they were explicitly told, and I have examples of this in the book, they were explicitly told by their superiors, by the administrators at their hospitals, do not say anything about this. So I had this bizarre experience where I'm observing this narrative that's going on in the culture, this sort of manufactured consensus that wasn't real. And I had this very lonely, strange experience where I'm getting all these text messages and emails and I'm talking with all these doctors who are disagreeing with this. But the dissent was silent. I wasn't allowed to talk about it and they were too afraid or weren't allowed to speak about it themselves. So my book gives what I hope is this deep behind the scenes account of what actually happened during the pandemic, not the narrative that we were all fed. And I'm hoping that when people finish reading this that they're going to be armed with enough information so they can actually understand and see how the gears turn within the legacy media and how they turn where they were working in conjunction with different institutions of power. So it's not just for a pandemic, but for when any other crisis happens that your listeners, and they're like, oh, I read about that in Zweig's I see exactly what's happening now.

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[Riley Herbst]

We're speaking to David Zweig. The book is an abundance of caution. I have my copy in my hands here. American Schools, the Virus and A Story of Bad Decisions. One of the reasons we want to have you on, David, is we like to reward people who were right when it mattered and did good work when it mattered on this issue. So congrats on the book and we hope people will. Will pick up a copy because I think that's very. It's very important. Right. It's a lot easier for people to jump on the bandwagon now, but we know that you were early on this and you got heat to that end. Just one. I mean, Clay might have a question for you in closing. I don't know if you're a sports fan or you like the SEC or anything, but that's always a possibility here at the end, too. But if you were to walk around right now, you know, sort of tell us what it's like on the other side a bit, because they'll still talk to you. They won't talk to us that much. Some of them listen to the show because it is so entertaining. But generally speaking, we have a center to right audience. If you walked around Park Slope or you walked around, I don't know, you know, Santa Monica and just talk to people who watch, I don't know, CNN read the New York Times or the LA Times and said, hey, guys, the next time around we're all clear that we don't shut down the schools for this, right? Are they clear on that?

[Jamie Rubin]

I think there's been a softening. So I think that's the good news. The bad news is that there is this revisionist history. There's this narrative that they've been pushing, which is in the beginning it was, we have to close schools. We have to do all this stuff. Eventually, when it was so obvious that that wasn't beneficial, it was so obvious this was only causing harm, then they shifted. Then the narrative was, well, this is regrettable, but it was an understandable thing. This was a fog of war decision. It was chaos. We did the best we could. And what I show in the book over and over is that information was known in real time. And that example about the European Union is just one of many. They knew what was happening. It was ignored or it was dismissed. So when you asked me that question, my fear is that when the next crisis happens, and it doesn't have to be a Pandemic that once again the, that there's this excuse of we're building the plane as we fly it, we don't know, sorry, we're doing the best we can. Don't accept it, it's not true. Demand evidence. And that's what my book is about at its core is you can't say stuff without providing evidence. And over and over, and I cite these long examples in the New York Times and all these other media outlets, they kept quoting all these experts saying things, but they didn't provide any evidence. They never challenged them. Journalists shirked their core duty, which was to actually question the statements by those in power. So I'm hoping my book will act as a counter, as a corrective, as this is an actual real history of what happened and it works as its own guidebook to help arm people to understand how the gears turn behind the scenes so we can try to prevent something like this from happening again.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Last question. You came from the left and Buck's right. I'm just curious from your perspective, we hope that the historic record 20, 40 years, 60 years from now is going to be a worthy lesson. How much less faith do you personally have in the so called legacy media than you did before COVID happened? So David Zweig 2019 compared to David Zweig 2025, how are you different?

[Jamie Rubin]

I would say, if I may, not just the legacy media, but the entire left establishment, if you will. My, my experience during the pandemic and what I observed and what I experienced as a journalist, actually chasing down the evidence and the facts has completely shattered my entire worldview that I had. I was a smug liberal, I've always been an independent. I was not like a staunch Democrat, so I was an independent minded person. But I tended to believe in these institutions and what I observed and experienced was the absolute failure and these people who are the good guys. I recount some stuff in the book about. I had evidence from Arizona, the state itself, which differed from a study that the CDC put out. And when I contacted the cdc, I said, hey, I have evidence that I have data that's differing from what you have in your study. And I knew what they had was wrong because I had the official data. And their response to me was, we look through it. There are no errors when you can't come back from something like that. And like, I remember just like kind of hunched over with like a migraine that night talking to my wife, so. So to answer your question, I'm. I just feel entirely differently about how the world works and and you just can't recover from something like that when you know, you would think something like the NSA or defense department might pull some type of BS on that. This was, this was a health department and the cdc, they were lying through their teeth right to me in email saying there were no errors. When I knew we they knew that I knew and I knew that they knew that I knew that this was complete BS and they didn't care. You can't recover from something like that. So my book is filled with kind of that type of stuff where I this was, this was almost like a cathartic endeavor where I had to set the record straight. So people and hopefully not just your audience though I know they're going to be receptive I think but I'm hoping that I can persuade some independent minded people as well. That's my real goal is like to help people see what's really going on.

[Riley Herbst]

David Zweig everybody. An abundance of caution. David, thank you so much.

[Christiana Amanpour]

You're enjoying the best of program with Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

[Riley Herbst]

We're take a few moments to chat with our friend Dana Perino of Fox News.

[Christiana Amanpour]

You all know her.

[Riley Herbst]

She's got a book that just came out this week. I wish someone had told me the best advice for building a great career and a meaningful life and perhaps we'll even get her to weigh in on flutes versus fifes and other fascinating conversations today on the show. Dana, thank you so much for being here.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Hey, I thought you were having me on and talk about the NFL draft.

[Riley Herbst]

Oh no, that's my Dana don't. That's my area of expertise. Maybe you and I can do a whole segment where we discuss the draft because Clay had to tell me that this was even happening. So I had zero idea.

[Christiana Amanpour]

But now I love the idea. Dana Reed Sports is one of my favorite parts of Fox News. I love the idea of Dana and Buck try to figure out sports related issues like you guys just with no help just come together and try to determine some sports related conclusion.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

I got. I really loved the I love watching the NFL draft because I like watching all the people like like in the families and like their excitement. I think that's so fun. And live tweeting the draft is some one of my favorite things to do. So I'm going to make sure I'm doing that tonight. Like who wouldn't want to like who wouldn't want to live in Arizona. That sounds fun. They got cute uniforms too.

[Riley Herbst]

Yes. I would just tell you I've actually never seen the draft. So I think we've established that Dana's knowledge clay of this exceeds substantially. I've never watched an NFL draft in my life, so maybe tonight will be my first time. Dana, tell us about, about the book a little bit here. I mean, you have a, you've had a huge career. You were White House press secretary under Bush. Now you're at the five Fox doing all this amazing stuff. What's the book telling everybody out there?

[iHeart Podcast Host]

So it's called I Wish Someone had Told me the Best advice for Building a Great career and a Meaningful Life. And I'd done a book before called Everything Will Be okay. And actually I remember you all had just started your show together and when, when that book came out, you had me on and it was such a fun conversation. I remember exactly where I was standing and where we did that. And that book was really targeted to young women going through their quarter life crisis. This book is post Covid and it is not geared just to young women. I made it much more broad based. And also because I have advanced in years since when I left the White House, a lot of people that I mentored back then are still coming to me for advice. And they've become executives, moms and dads. They are looking for the next step in their life. They're making big career transitions. And so I realized I didn't have all the answers myself. I interviewed over 40 people. Many of the people here at Fox News, like Gutfeld, Harold Ford Jr. Jesse Waters, Sandra Smith, Jimmy Faylor, you name it, they're in here. But also like my college roommate, my husband and Dirks Bentley. That's what I was thinking. Of course, I was thinking of Nashville. I'm thinking Clay Travis, Nashville, Dirks Bentley. Just talk to them. Everything from how to start, how to get your foot in the door, how to get a promotion, how to be intentional with your time and a work life balance. And I know, Buck, you're a new dad and all of this is, I'm sure you'll be able to write a book of advice for dads anytime soon.

[Riley Herbst]

Oh, I would. I would love that. But I have to tell you, Dana, as I'm talking to you, it's always reassuring when I find out that my wife is actually listening to the show and she texted me and says, make sure you tell Dana that I got a lot out of her book. Everything will be okay. So Kerry Sexton is a fan of book one and now will be a fan of your most recent book.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

I am sure your wife is so lovely. Well, you know, I love hearing that. And one thing I did find out, guys is when Everything Will Be okay came out. It was a big success. Everybody loved it. But there were younger guys, especially around here at Fox were like, what about one for us? And there's an insatiable need of young people who they really want to be successful and they're just looking for us to give them the blueprint and we don't have the answers. Of course. One of the best things that I've learned and that I could pass on is that I really worried away my 20s for no reason. I was so trying to plan out my life and everything that happened great in my life is not because I planned it. And if you are an educated American, you already won life's great lottery. And so all you have to decide is how hard do you want to work.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I think that's so well said and thanks for coming on, Dana. I had a professor at Vanderbilt Law School, Larry Soderquist, who has since passed, but he was an incredible business professor and his big thing to us when we were in law school and I'm sure there's some kids out there that are going to grad school or you're going to take the bar exam soon coming up this summer. And he said you are already set. He said you guys have done the hard work of getting into law school. He said the question you have to decide going forward with your legal careers is how do you want to work this, this, this law degree? Said but you're never going to be homeless, you're never going to be hungry. The big concerns in life you have taken care of and you should think about that more than you do, all of you. And I thought that perspective was super important. And I think it reflects upon what you said where there are a lot of kids out there in their 20s, they get out of school, they get out of grad school, they have these quarter life crises. I had one myself. And they wonder what else is out there. And I think this is an important lesson that you're trying to teach them is that one you're still going to be trying to figure out a lot of things when you're in your 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s. Nobody has all the answers. But you're probably going to be okay.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Oh, absolutely. And one of my favorite mentors was President Bush. And I remember he would talk about the importance of not being so risk averse, that America was built on people willing to take a risk and to be pioneers. And I think about Elon Musk Right. Like, he takes risks all the time, like landing rockets on chopsticks. But because he was able to, he was willing to take a risk. You can get great reward. And I remember I was really hesitant to start my own business after I left the White House because I had a million reasons that were stupid, really looking back. And the President said to me, ask yourself this. What is the worst thing that could happen to you if it fails? So I sort of hemmed and hawed for a minute, and he said, so you're telling me the worst thing that could happen to you, an educated American woman who was the White House press secretary, starts her own business, say it fails, and the worst thing you have to do is go back and work for another PR firm. That's the worst thing. And you said, I'm not persuaded by that. And that's really helpful to me. I learned from Dr. Samantha Boardman, when people are dealing with anxiety, and of course, we all do, and also we're surrounded by young people who have a lot of it, you ask yourself, what's the worst thing that could happen? And what's the best thing that could happen? And usually what happens is somewhere in the middle, and it can calm you down pretty quickly.

[Riley Herbst]

Yes. I think there's an old quote from one of the great Stoics that we suffer more in imagination than reality. It might have been Seneca or it's one of them. So it's a version. You know, Dana's updating it for the 21st century, but this is very true.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Believe it or not, when I interviewed him for this book. Jesse Waters talks about the Stoics as well in this book.

[Riley Herbst]

Well, Jesse Waters and I are apparently brothers from another mother. I had no idea. Fun fact. Jesse doesn't even know this, but maybe he was in. I think it was like a English 101 class at Trinity College with my.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Older brother at one point.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Point.

[Riley Herbst]

To give you a sense of what a small world it was then Mason transferred, went to a different school. But yes, Jesse and I have.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Give me the tea.

[Riley Herbst]

Yeah. Jesse and I have been ships passing the night. Mason assures me he might have popped his collar, but he was a very nice guy. But, yes, we've got Dana Perino with us right now, and she's got a new book out which you guys should all check out. And her books have been huge successes up to this point. So what's, you know, if you're looking now for the. The people out there who are going to be grabbing this book, if there's One thing that you want them to really take out of it today, or rather one thing that they would read and you hope they could apply to their lives as soon as possible. Dana, what would that be?

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Well, I think we've covered a lot of it, and especially what I'm hoping is that when people read this, they will realize they don't need to worry as much. One of the reasons that you seek out a book like this is because you're trying to get some answers to things that are bothering you. So I'm hoping that that is true. But I would also pass on this advice. Most of the mentees that come to see me, they are definitely interested in professional guidance, but they also are looking for meaningful personal lives. They would love to meet somebody, they want to get married, they want to have families, and they want to find a work life balance that will allow them to have a great, wonderful, meaningful life. And my experience was unusual. I met my husband on an airplane 28 years ago. And there's a million reasons why we might not have met or that we could have talked ourselves out of it. But choosing to be loved is not a career limiting decision. It actually made all the difference for me. And I'm hoping that young people can take that away and realize that investing in yourself, in a commitment is a great way to enhance your life and your career.

[Riley Herbst]

I gotta wait, I gotta reverse for a second here. Take us into this. This is a great story of romance. You met your husband on a plane. Like how. What was the first move here? Did he spill his. His peanuts or his seltzer in your lap? Like, how did he get this going?

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Well, okay, so it was 1997. So let's go in the way, way back machine. Nobody had phones, nobody had AirPods. Okay? So I was carrying a book. I was working for a congressman. I was coming back from Washington, from Denver, going Denver, Chicago, Chicago, D.C. and I was on an American Airlines flight. I almost missed the plane because it was my first time driving out to the new Denver International Airport, which might as well be in Kansas. It's so far away.

[Christiana Amanpour]

That's accurate.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

And so the last two people to get on the plane were myself and this guy. And I sat down in the window seat and he said, would you like me to put your bag up above? British accent, Strong move.

[Riley Herbst]

Strong move, yeah.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Accents. Accents are helpful. No wedding ring. Handsome. And he had a book called the Tailor of Panama by John Le Carre. I said, oh, how? I said, do you like that book? So we started talking about books and for two and a half hours. We talked for a long time. I remember asking him, what do people in Europe think about Bill Clinton? And he said, they think he's a clown. And I was like, oh, wow, we're going to get along great. But then I remember looking out the window and saying a prayer to God that I know I asked you to help me find someone, but he's much older than me. He lives in England. My career is on the right track. I didn't think I would meet somebody on an airplane, but I couldn't eat, sleep, drink, concentrate, anything after I met him. And about six weeks later, we had our first date when he was back in the States, in New Orleans. And six months later, I moved to England 20, 28 years ago.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Wow. What was the reaction when you told people, I'm just kind of curious, hey, I'm going to move to England. I met a guy on an airplane?

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Okay, so you didn't. You hit the nail on the head of. One of the reasons I wrote the book, because one of the things I worried about my 20s was, how am I going to get a job? How will I succeed? How will I pay my bills? Then how am I going to meet somebody? How am I going to. Then what are people going to think about me for wanting to be with this man who is much older than me, lives in England, and that I'm leaving my job and career to go live in England, and who knows what's going to happen to me? And I worried myself to death. And this. A woman, a family friend said, don't give up on this chance to be loved.

[Riley Herbst]

And can I throw something in there? Dana, One superpower that I've learned is to not care what people think who don't matter to you.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

But you know what? It's so interesting is that we have to learn this lesson over and over again. Because your parents teach you that when you're young, or maybe you learn it in Sunday school or from a teacher or from other friends. And all of these young people are always thinking about what others are thinking about them and how they're being judged. And what I remind them is that actually, we all just think about ourselves all the time. Nobody has time to think about you.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And by the way, especially in a social media age, people are even more obsessed about how they're being perceived than they would have been in the past. Quick question. Can I ask her a question?

[Riley Herbst]

Dana, do you think that. Do you think that women. I'm putting you on the hot seat a little bit here. Everybody loves Data Perino. Everyone's going to love this book. You're on the hot seat now. Do women in this era care too much about men's height?

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Gosh, you know, I am barely. I'm not even quite five foot one, so. Even Gutfeld is a little tall to me. Just kidding. He is not tall to me. Too much about height? I mean, maybe. I mean, I know that it's sort of awkward. It depends. Like, I don't. You don't see a lot of.

[Riley Herbst]

How tall is your husband, Dana? How tall is your husband?

[Jamie Rubin]

Let's just.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Let's just go through this about.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

I would say 510.

[Riley Herbst]

Okay. This is like, he's like tall, but not, you know, you didn't date. Like, you're not a 51 lady who married a 6 foot 5 guy. We've had some conversations on the show recently about this.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

He's tall for someone from Scotland. How about that?

[Riley Herbst]

Fair enough.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Fair enough. Yeah.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I don't even know if that's just a shot at Scottish men, by the way, that you just. I wouldn't have tall for someone from Scott. Scottish men are short. Is this true?

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Christiana Amanpour]

The book, by the way, is fabulous. I have met her husband. He is fabulous. Dana has taken us out like he would.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Probably canceled if he had a radio show.

[Christiana Amanpour]

He is great. He is fantastic. Well, hey, by the way, you're listening to a guy who may get canceled at any moment. No idea what might happen from one second to the next. The book is. I wish someone had told me and Dana Perino. Go buy it. You're going to like it. Dana, we appreciate the time. You do fantastic work.

[Riley Herbst]

Thank you. Same to you, Clay. I was struck by something as we're talking to Dana, who. It is true. Everybody. My wife loves Dana. Everybody loves Dana. Her book is fantastic. I'm sure the last book was fantastic. I have a book title for you for your next book, because we know the topic. I have a title for you. Do you want me to tell you the title now or when we come back?

[Christiana Amanpour]

I want to hear your title when we come back. We've got a title for the book and it's probably not going to surprise you, but I'm curious if your title is somewhat similar to the title. We've got an idea.

[Riley Herbst]

Now that you're telling me this, I feel like it could be. But you have. Just to be clear, Clay has not told me the title of his forthcoming book. I have a title in mind for him, and I think some of you are really going to like it. So that's what we call a tease in the business.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And you switch. Is it me or you who's supposed to know?

[Riley Herbst]

It's me. It's me.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Oh, I blew it. Sorry.

[Riley Herbst]

The leaf blowers are throwing you off, buddy.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I need some leaf blowers. Just track me everywhere. I hate those guys.

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[Christiana Amanpour]

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[Riley Herbst]

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[Christiana Amanpour]

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[Riley Herbst]

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[Christiana Amanpour]

Do this. Go to PureTalk.com Clay you'll save an additional 50% off your first month. You can be switched over to PureTalk in less than 10 minutes. That's PureTalk.com Clay and to switch to Pure Talk wireless by Americans for Americans.

[Riley Herbst]

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[Christiana Amanpour]

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[Rodney Williams]

Edu I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Investing.

[Rodney Williams]

It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle, and relying on your community to create something bigger. And that's exactly why we created the wealthbreak. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles, and real wins. We're here to talk about the journey you're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same. So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Wealth Brave podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[Christiana Amanpour]

You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Welcome back in Clay Travis, Buck Sexton show. A little bit of a quick turn here. By the way, I want to say Dana Perino maybe the nicest person on air at Fox News, but if she had to get into a royal rumble with the other nicest person, in my experience, Shannon Bream versus Dana Perino for the title of nicest person on the air at Fox News would be like the Jordan LeBron debate of the Fox News era. But they're the two nicest people on the planet.

[Riley Herbst]

I would, I would concur. They're two of the nicest people I've come across in this, in this business and just in general. But Clay, your book is going to be about masculinity in America today. I think your book title should be the First Amendment.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And dudes, that's good. You are going to be it's the book title is going to be Buck Balls B A L L S How Trump Won Men. And it all it has on the COVID is just two big basketballs. 100%. This is, this is what this is. Yes, you're all very welcome. That is Buck's title is very good. But the title of my book is legitimately just Balls B A L L s And yeah, it's gonna be fun. Introducing family freedom from T Mobile.

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[Rodney Williams]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance. Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

[Rodney Williams]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.

[Travis Holloway]

What happens when it doesn't go right? How do you cope with it?

[Rodney Williams]

Because wealth isn't just about money, it's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[Christiana Amanpour]

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[Jamie Rubin]

And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor.

[Riley Herbst]

To both Presidents Clinton and Biden.

[Christiana Amanpour]

We were married for 20 years and divorced for seven. Now we've joined forces on the X Files to make sense of how we ended up with no world order. Listen to Christiana Manpour presents the X files on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. The following heartwarming yet informative scene is brought to you by Trust and Will Son.

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