Hour 1 - WWI with Drones

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 1 - WWI with Drones
Date: August 18, 2025
Podcast Host: iHeartPodcasts
Summary by Section and Timestamps

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Main Theme & Overview

This episode centers on the high-level diplomatic efforts unfolding in Washington, D.C., where President Trump convened with European leaders and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to seek an end to the Ukraine-Russia war. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton analyze the current deadlock, comparing it to World War I trench warfare but with modern tech like drones. With humor and frankness, the hosts dig into what both Russia and Ukraine want, the role of American diplomacy, the effectiveness of sanctions, historical analogies, and the weariness now shaping attitudes—particularly in Ukraine and among Western leaders.

Major topics include real-time geopolitical strategy, behind-the-scenes diplomatic maneuvering, war fatigue, and the practicality of achieving a lasting peace.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Opening: The Diplomatic Push in Washington

[00:34 - 03:53]

• Clay sets the stage: multiple European leaders and Zelensky are headed to the White House in what he says is one of the "largest collections of leaders to ever visit the White House at one point in time."
• Clay outlines the fundamental conflict: Russia wants full control of Donetsk (and beyond), while Ukraine demands security guarantees and refuses to cede territory but may need to concede some land for peace.
• He draws a parallel to the Korean DMZ as a model and suggests a similar outcome may be the "most likely": a tense peace with security assurances.
  • Quote (Clay): "That feels to me like the most likely outcome here. Ukraine gets some form of security guarantee, Russia gets more of the Ukrainian land, and we have a tenuous peace..." [02:13]

Framework for a Settlement: The Role of Security Guarantees

[03:53 – 07:19]

• Buck agrees broadly but emphasizes the challenge of trustworthy security guarantees for Ukraine.
• Draws a “blackmail” analogy: If Ukraine concedes land, will Russia continue to demand more in the future?
• Highlights the issue with a NATO-style guarantee—it would be a red line for Putin and politically untenable in the U.S.
  • Quote (Buck): "The challenge on the security guarantee front is that starts to sound a lot like NATO Article 5 to people, which is a huge red line for Putin..." [05:30]
• Sanctions, Buck argues, are not a sufficient answer.

The Trench Warfare Analogy and the Nature of the Current Fighting

[08:03 – 10:09]

• Buck describes Ukraine’s heavily fortified defensive lines, listing barriers comparable to WWI—now updated with drones and surveillance.
  • Quote (Buck): "This is World War I trench warfare with drones and satellite communications. That's where we are." [08:08]
• Details the brutality: elaborate fortifications, anti-tank ditches, mines, and deadly drone strikes.
• Both discuss heavy casualties ("hundreds of thousands" killed or wounded).

Stalemate, Mediation, and Weariness

[12:14 – 29:12]

• Clay and Buck discuss the "Korean solution"—a DMZ or a demilitarized line that stops the war but doesn't resolve all issues.
• Buck: Fortifications now span “hundreds of miles”—not just isolated spots.
• Buck praises Trump’s unique diplomatic potential: "The only person who could bring this together... is Donald Trump. And that is not some Trump worship thing. That is the truth." [12:53]
• Marco Rubio (Senator, via audio clip) explains: a deal requires both sides to give and take, complicated by years of bloody stalemate and shifting leverage. [18:45]
• War fatigue in Ukraine: Public opinion has shifted—most Ukrainians now prefer a negotiated settlement (citing CNN's Harry Enten: “69% want to negotiate to end the war as soon as possible, compared to just 24% who want to fight until Ukraine wins.” [25:41]

The US Role: From Mediator to Security Guarantor?

[22:12 – 25:41]

• Clay uses the analogy of mediation: US is not a direct party, but a mediator, shuttling between Russia and Ukraine.
• He raises the question of future US involvement: if America provides security guarantees or “property interest” in Ukraine (e.g., mineral rights), does that make intervention more likely?
  • Quote (Clay): "The United States effectively is the mediator here. We are trying to bring peace." [22:32]

Trench Warfare, Attrition, and Russian Psychology

[28:06 – 29:12]

• Buck: Russia has more people and the authoritarian willingness to accept high casualties, unlike democracies.
  • Quote (Buck): “Autocrats can just feed people into the meat grinder until they decide enough is enough.” [28:06]
• First World War analogies and references to the movie “All Quiet on the Western Front” to illustrate the human cost and nature of the fighting.

Western Involvement and the Nature of “Accessorial” War

[29:12 – 31:26]

• Clay notes the contradiction: The US claims to be neutral, but sends the bulk of Ukraine’s weaponry.
  • Quote (Clay): “If you are constantly giving someone weapons that they're using to kill other people, at some point, most people would see that as you being an accessory.” [29:22]

Historical Analogies and the Reality of End States

[31:26 – 34:56]

• Buck recounts the Soviet-Afghan War, comparing it to today’s Ukraine war (attritional, unwinnable by force alone).
• Clay and Buck acknowledge that some in eastern Ukraine might prefer Russian control—a nuance often left out of Western media.
  • Quote (Buck): “There are some people in the Far east who would rather be a part of the Russian Federation.” [33:49]
• Suggests that a “business as usual” rule, similar to post-2014 Crimea, may be the least-worst outcome for some regions.

Cost of War and the Need for Resolution

[34:56 – 35:29]

• Buck points out the staggering costs—potentially a trillion dollars to the US and Europe collectively.
  • Quote (Buck): “We are not just bystanders trying to bring about an end. We're also very much incentivized for that end to happen.” [34:56]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Clay Travis (re: settlement):
  “There is no world in which Ukraine does not have to give up land. The question is how much." [01:32]

• Buck Sexton (on US security guarantees):
  "Sanctions are a tool. They are not an answer." [06:43]

• Clay Travis (war analogy):
  "This is World War I trench warfare with drones and satellite communications." [08:08]

• Buck Sexton (on US involvement):
  "Autocrats can just feed people into the meat grinder until they decide enough is enough." [28:06]

• Clay Travis (on US role):
  "The United States effectively is the mediator here. We are trying to bring peace." [22:32]

• Marco Rubio (Senator):
  "The only way to reach a deal is for each side to get something and each side to give something. And that's been very difficult." [18:45]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:53: Buck outlines problems with security guarantees and NATO.
• 08:03 – 10:09: Discussion of the way modern trench warfare with drones works.
• 12:53: Buck asserts Trump is the only person who could broker a deal at this stage.
• 18:45: Senator Marco Rubio explains negotiations require mutual concessions.
• 25:41: Data from CNN showing majority of Ukrainians now back a negotiated settlement.
• 29:22: Clay highlights US as major arms supplier (accessory, not neutral).
• 34:56: Buck on the war’s cost and American/European interest in ending it.

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Overall Flow and Tone

The episode maintains a casual but urgent tone, blending humor, analogy, and pointed commentary. Clay and Buck balance critique (especially of prior American policies and the limitations of sanctions) with realism about war fatigue and the unlikelihood of a total Ukrainian victory. They frame Trump’s mediator role as pivotal, dissect the pros and cons of potential endgame scenarios, and repeatedly ground their discussion in both historical analogy and hard-nosed pragmatism about what is possible—and palatable—either for Ukrainians, Russians, or Americans.

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Concluding Takeaways

• The conflict has stabilized into a modern version of WWI trench warfare, with drones and advanced tech causing horrific casualties.
• Peace will require Ukraine to cede land, and Russia to accept security arrangements that deter further aggression—but no one will get everything they want.
• The US is deeply involved both as mediator and as Ukraine’s principal arms supplier, raising questions about future responsibilities and risks.
• War fatigue is shaping the views of Ukrainians and Westerners alike, with a shift toward prioritizing a negotiated settlement over total victory.
• The war's end will be shaped not just by Ukrainian and Russian choices, but also by broader geopolitical factors—like China’s support for Russia and the effectiveness (or not) of Western sanctions.

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This summary gives a comprehensive look at the episode’s analysis, personalities, and key arguments for anyone who missed it and wants to understand the stakes and current dynamics of the Ukraine conflict as discussed by Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

Transcript

[Mary Kathryn Hamm and Carol Markowitz]

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome in Monday edition Clay. Travis Bucks Exton show. We hope all of you had fabulous weekends and boy, we are jumping right into the deep end of the pool. With a major news day underway. We will discuss the outcome of the Anchorage summit, but already it is being replaced by Zelinsky on his way to the White House along with many of the top leaders from throughout Europe. This will be one of the largest collections of leaders to ever visit the White House at one point in time. Here is the list. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. Well, that's not a good one to start with. I have no idea how to pronounce that last name. Von der Leyen, Von der Leyen, is that right? Italian Prime Minister, Georgia well, anyway, Italy, France, Britain, Germany and Finland, along with the secretary general of NATO, all going to be participating in this huge meeting. And buck, let's just dive right into it because I think this is the essence of the question. It seems to me, and you sign off or you take issue with, with my analysis here, it seems to me that we now have a sense for what both sides want. And the question is can there be some sort of negotiated settlement, ceasefire? And I've got an idea of how this ends, but I want to see if you sign on or if you think it goes a different direction. The thing that Israel, the thing that Israel, the thing that Russia wants the most is the province of Donetsk or Donetsk, or however you pronounce it. And it seems quite clear that that is their primary aim here. And they have about 80% of it so far and they want 100% of it. Right now Ukraine is saying we will not give up any land. I understand that argument. I think that is past. There is no world in which Ukraine does not have to give up land. The question is how much. What Ukraine most wants is some form of security guarantee. And it seems to me that there is a resolution of this conflict that would potentially look something like what happened with north and South Korea. I don't know that you have a demilitarized zone necessarily, but we still have a ton of troops in South Korea. Technically, that war has never really ended, but we provided security guarantees and. And as a result, there is a sort of a tenuous peace that is now extended for multiple generations. That feels to me like the most likely outcome here. Ukraine gets some form of security guarantee, Russia gets more of the Ukrainian land, and we have a tenuous peace that is put in place with the security guarantee in some way trying to act as a major point of dissuading Russia from ever invading more parts of Ukraine going forward. Do you sign off on that idea, that framework in general? If not, what do you think needs to be added to the equation?

[Buck Sexton]

Yes. We now know after the meeting with Trump and Putin, which I saw, of course, a lot of people in the media who are anti Trump were rushing to say, see, they don't have a deal. There wasn't going to be a deal because Ukraine's not there. It's about laying the groundwork for a deal. This is the biggest, nastiest, most horrible conflict, military conflict, in the world right now. It is not something that you can just snap your fingers and it goes away. Trump is trying to bring this to a conclusion. If he does so, it will be the most successful act of diplomacy from an American president in, I don't know, clay, since Reagan bringing down the. The Berlin Wall and ending the Cold War. I mean, really, you'd have to go back quite nothing. Clinton did nothing, Bush did, certainly nothing Obama did. And Biden wasn't even really president, as we know. So this is high stakes, the highest stakes. And yes, you're right, this is really what it comes down to. You have the Ukrainians who don't want to cede even more territory than the Russians currently have, and that's what's. So what the Russian demand is right now is, is we want everything we've got and then some to stop this war. That's what's come out of this. Sit down with Trump and Putin. The Ukrainian demand is, look, before we could even say, we'll give you anything, we need to know that this is really it. You know, it's a little bit like, if you're being blackmailed, what's the big question for somebody? And this is a form of blackmail, in a sense, this invasion, Right. The big question is, ok, if I give you a bag of money, is this the last bag of money, or are you going to show up every six Months demanding more. Is Russia going to just think this is a pause and then they can take more of Ukraine? That's where the security guarantees come in. Now, Clay, the challenge on the security guarantee front is that starts to sound a lot like NATO Article 5 to people, which is a huge red line for Putin and has been all along, and I think for a lot of Americans too, it would be. Hold on a second. So now if Russia does decide to go more, we are going to, you know, send in troops or we are going to be military. Now, I'm sure what's happening is it's going to be European partners, you know, financial and economic sanctions arrayed. The problem though is that that's not enough. And this is something that we've all seen over and over again. Sanctions are a tool. They are not an answer. They were not an answer in Iraq with Saddam Hussein. They were not an answer with, well, the Gaddafi thing, there's a whole bunch of stuff we could say about that. But sanctions alone, because he was actually going in our direction when we decided to topple, when, you know, the Clint, the Obama, Clinton apparatus decided to topple him. But sanctions alone don't just end things for you. So, Clay, this is where, this is where the detailed negotiations really matter. You know, what is a security guarantee? What security guarantee for Ukraine is sufficient other than we will put US Troops in harm's way or US Troops will be the cavalry if after this deal Russia decides to restart hostilities? I don't see us doing that. I don't think we should do that. And so then what is it? What's a realistic security guarantee for a country that the uk, Russia and America all promised when it gave up its nukes? Big mistake. We will guarantee your security 40 years ago or whatever it was. So it's, this is tough stuff.

[Clay Travis]

I'm sympathetic for Ukraine because as you hit on, it's not that they're concerned about necessarily how this conflict resolves. It's that the last decade plus of Russian behavior has shown them that they never stop. They always want another bite at the apple. And I believe Ukraine's position is we have a very strong defensive works and if we give up this particular part of our country, that is going to gum up the apparatus to allow us to have a strong defensive line going forward. To say nothing of the fact that Ukraine believes this is their line, that it's, that it's their territory and they don't want to give it up. So I think that's the thing this.

[Buck Sexton]

Has turned into to really Understand, and I've been over the weekend, I was kind of going through as much of the more detailed analysis of this as I could. Clay. This is World War I trench warfare with drones and satellite communications. That's where we are. So you have a very detailed. I mean the Wall Street Journal had this layout of the fortifications. They have a six layer fortification barrier. And everyone's saying, you know, kind of like a Maginot line, which of course does not. Historically, the French Maginot line did not work out well. But this one is being specifically built to be anti tank as well in nature. So the way the Journal laid it out, they've got barbed wire and metal coils that are low vis, low visibility to intentionally entrap and ensnare Russian. Not just armor, but the Russians have been using motorbikes to try to just break through small areas in the lines. Then it's an anti tank ditch. Then it is anti vehicle barriers they call Dragon's teeth, these cement pyramids that they're putting down. All of you who are gwad veterans, remember the HESCO barriers, Jersey barriers, HESCO barriers. Huge thing was these cement, big cement blocks essentially to stop vehicle borne improvised explosive devices. Then there's a second anti tank ditch, Clay, and then a third anti tank ditch with mines and then a sixth layer of additional barbed wire and metal coil. So this is very reminiscent of the trenches in the first World War. It's just higher technology and they have to be very cognizant of these drones, these anti personnel drones that can, that are coming down at you from the sky. Right. So it's almost like artillery rounds, but they're smart rounds in that someone is using a camera to find you and get you. And the. I mean it is brutal warfare. A lot of people are being caught up in the coils and the wire and then they wait and then a drone circling overhead and the drone comes in and blows them up.

[Clay Travis]

Trump said. And I don't know how accurate this is because sometimes casualties get conflated with deaths. Trump said 20,000 Russian troops died in July. Again, that is the most recent number that I've heard publicly out there. Now maybe it's 20,000 casualties because again, sometimes those numbers get used, used in fluctuating ways. I think it's clear that hundreds of thousands of people have been severely injured and or killed on both sides of this, of this fight so far. And so really I do think the benefit of the meeting in Russia is, Sorry, with Russia in Anchorage is we now know, I think somewhat we what Putin wants. And a lot of people are focused on, well, we didn't get an immediate ceasefire, and I understand that that would be better in theory, but really the goal is peace. It's not a ceasefire. And so Ukraine's going to have to give up land, and there's going to have to be some sort of security guarantee that is put in place.

[Buck Sexton]

I think the big. The asterisk, though, Clay, is we know what Putin wants now, and I think that's where there's a big stumbling block here for Ukraine. That's what gets in the security guarantees. If they could be certain that the territory that Russia already has, maybe, plus a little bit, would be the end of this. That's one thing I think they. They feel that this war has been going on not just since the major invasion, but before that, the Russian Mascarova, the. The deception war, the. Oh, there's some separatists who are all just Russians being ordered out of Moscow.

[Clay Travis]

That.

[Buck Sexton]

That it would be a ceasefire and then give it some time, and then the Russians break through again. Right. Because why not? And so I think that's where this becomes really hard. You have to be damn sure on the Ukrainian side, and Zelensky does that whatever the concessions are, it'll be. It'll be like north and South Korea, where you're not just going to punch through that line and do whatever you want afterwards. And that's been going on for a.

[Clay Travis]

Long time, which is why I think maybe a solution here is some form of demilitarized zone. I know it's more complicated because no one lives in the demilitarized zone. And this would theoretically be places where people have been living, but that seems to me the best way to potentially solve it.

[Buck Sexton]

That's basically what they're building. I mean, when you're talking about the expansive. It's hundreds of miles of these fortifications, Clay. It's World War I redux in that sense. I mean, this is not. It's not a few places where they're dug in. They're dug in along an entire front of hundreds of miles.

[Clay Travis]

So, yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy what they have built.

[Buck Sexton]

That's what this war has turned into. So this is. It's very tough stuff. I still have a lot of faith. You know, I even think it's the wrong thing to say, because I heard Marco Rubio talking about this over the weekend. It's not just, I have faith that if anyone can get this done, it's Trump. The only person who can get this done is Donald Trump. And that is, that is not some Trump worship thing. That is the truth. The only person who could bring this together at this point in time, who has the gravitas, who's in a position to bring this horrible war that's killing hundreds of thousands of people to an end is Donald Trump. And I just say that because everyone, especially Ukraine flag waving, Slava Ukraine, Americans and Europeans should be rooting for maximum success here. And anything short of that, I think is is a really ugly manifestation of of Trump derangement syndrome. We'll get into more of this. We'll take your calls on this as well. Here's if your cell phone service is with Verizon, AT&T or T Mobile, you're overpaying. And what you're mostly paying for are thousands of retail stores you never go into. You're paying for sponsorships you'll never benefit from, and you're paying a massive premium for what you think is superior 5G service. But guess what? That's not true because PureTalk uses the same 5G network on the same 5G towers. The only difference? PureTalk doesn't overcharge you for their cell phone service. You get unlimited talk, text and plenty of data for $25 a month. That's less than half the price of the big guys during a time when saving a buck really matters. And with Pure Talk you can keep your phone and your number. Do this from your cell phone, dial £250 and say the keyword Clay and Buck. You'll save an additional 50% off your first month. You can literally be switched over to Pure Talk in about 10 minutes time. Dial £250, say the keywords Clay and Buck and switch to Pure Talk Wireless. Buy Americans for Americans.

[Clay Travis]

The world has gone insane. Reclaim your sanity with Clay and Buck. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. High stakes diplomacy going on today at the White House. We have some really important stuff underway here. European leaders are. They've, well, they're, they're set to arrive. I believe they've arrived. Zelensky is supposed to be arriving at the White House around 1pm and so while we are on air with you today, you will have the other piece. The first piece of this was Putin Trump, Trump's top team. So Rubio Hegseth in Alaska. But the other part of this, the other necessary part of this is the other party to a possible deal, Ukraine and really the Europeans. And that comes together today. So we will have Trump in the Oval Office with Zelensky. I don't think anyone's going to be able to say there's a deal done today either just to manage expectations. This is to get down on, on paper, so to speak, what the Ukrainian needs are in this situation and what the Europeans are going to do in order to ensure that that's happening. Here's Secretary of State Rubio. This is cut to on why Zelensky is up today at the White House.

[Senator Marco Rubio]

Whether it's in business or in politics or in geopolitics, the only way to reach a deal is for each side to get something and each side to give something. And that's been very difficult. If it was easy, this wouldn't have been going on for three and a half years. Understand, the longer these wars go on, the harder they are to end, unfortunately, because one side is always looking for leverage on the other. In this particular case, the Russian side as well. And so I think that that's the core of what we're trying to work through here. That's why Zelensky's coming tomorrow. That's why European leaders are coming tomorrow. That's why the president, them from the airplane spent two hours in the middle of the night talking to them. And that's why we've been engaged with them every step of the way is we are trying to find what can we get to that both sides can agree on. And it's been difficult. This is a hard issue.

[Buck Sexton]

Said it is difficult. And Clay, there's also the added emotional component of this for leaders on both sides. I know people say, well, Putin's a sociopath and he doesn't care at all. I think he cares about Russia. I think he does at some level care about the Russian people. He thinks this is the right thing to do. I think it's evil and wrong, but, you know, this is what he has decided to do. The sunk cost of this, Clay, the casualties, the blood and treasure spent, both sides want to get the maximum they can. You know, this is not, this is not a minor thing for them.

[Clay Travis]

No. And I mean, it's just, I come back again and again to what is the benefit at all for Russia. I understand that Putin finds the humiliation of the Soviet empire to be unacceptable and sees this as traditional Soviet lands. I don't think if he had been able to look into the future and know that hundreds of thousands of Russians were going to be killed. I don't think he would have thought that this was a worthy decision to make. I think he expected that the Russian army would take over all of Ukraine very rapidly and there would be some sort of negotiated satellite state that Russia basically would control. And that has not happened to the credit of the Ukrainian.

[Buck Sexton]

Imagine, imagine if his initial blitzkrieg, which we reported on together here on the show three years ago, was successful. They took, they took Kiev and Zelensky fled the country and it was just okay, unconditional surrender. He would, he would be up there in the Russian mines with the greatest Russian leaders of all time. Unfortunately, that's not what happened for everybody.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. And I think he expected that to happen.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. Just because the casualties have gotten so much higher than anybody would have anticipated. I think at that point. All right. Our federal government has a spending problem. Decades of spending beyond our own means have put our government in a tough situation. Finding the necessary funding without huge tax rate increases. Doge cuts will help. Tariff income will help, as will massive business investments by companies making commitments bringing jobs back to our cities. Our federal government will have to be more industrious to reduce our deficit and start paying down debt. But there is hope for a solution. According to Jim Rickards, a 50 year government insider who's advised four presidential administrations, President Trump's on the verge of a breakthrough that could help our federal budget a lot. Rickards says America is anything but broke and he thinks investors could make a fortune in the months ahead. If the Trump administration's future move in this regard is correct, it could solve the government's problem coming down the road. Jim Rickards thinks If you're over 50, this is a great chance to build lasting wealth. For the full story and learn how you can profit, go to birthright2025.com today. That's birthright2025.com paid for by Paradigm Press.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. All of the European leaders are arriving exactly right now as we are speaking to all of you walking into the White House. I think one way that is the easiest to kind of explain Trump's perspective here, and I think some of you will understand it because you may have been through it before, is before you end up in a courtroom. Almost all major disputes go to mediation and Trump is effectively the mediator. And I, I, I know that everybody wants immediate outcome. But for those of you who have not been to a mediation before, both parties are in different rooms and sometimes it's in the same venue, other times now with technology, it's basically set up on a zoom call or whatever it might be. And you have a mediator going back and forth constantly trying to figure out a way to get a solution to the problem. And so I think that's the easiest way to kind of structurally think about what exactly is going on. From the Trump perspective. The United States effectively is the mediator here. We are trying to bring peace. And I do believe we have a little bit better idea after the face to face meeting, what Putin wants, what his most desired outcomes are, where he might be able to give. And I think the same thing is true. After today, we will have a better sense for exactly what Ukraine's so called red lines are, what is and what is not acceptable. And as anyone who has ever been involved in a mediation knows, it is often very unsettling because nobody gets everything that they want, nobody get. Ukraine wants Russia to put down their arms and leave and say, hey, you know what, that boundaries in place for a reason. We never should have invaded your territory. We apologize, we're going to go back to Russia. We'll just pretend the last three and a half years never happened. And Russia wants for multiple parts of Ukraine, certainly the parts that it has taken so far, to become a part of the Russian homeland as a part of the Russian territory. And so to me, Buck, I think the most difficult question for the United States is what exactly is our role going forward? Because right now we can be a neutral arbiter. We are effectively the mediator. We are Switzerland in this respect. But going forward, what sort of security guarantees will we be a part of enforcing? And remember, this was a big part of the mineral rights. The whole aspect of Ukraine giving up their mineral rights, which turned into a big issue in the White House earlier this year, was that the United States, when it has a property interest in Ukraine assets, in theory is more likely to protect those assets. That's the gamble that effectively Ukraine made in giving up some of the purported value of their mineral rights. And that's why I keep coming back to the Korea situation. Seems to me the best historical analogy at this point to hope for.

[Buck Sexton]

You have CNN's Harry Entin here. I think this is worth noting as well because there are Democrats in Congress, for example, senators and some Republicans. Lindsey Graham are very hawkish on. We need to do whatever we need to do to get Ukraine to victory. And the challenge here is that victory for Ukraine would mean pushing back. It's not just holding what it has now, it would mean pushing Russia out of where it currently is. And I think there's no chance whatsoever that that is going to happen. So Ukrainians are getting weary of this fight as well. This is what the Data says to CNN's Harry Anton. Play five Ukrainians on the war versus Russia. You go back to 2020, to the start of the war. Fight until Ukraine wins. Look at this. The vast majority, about 3/4, 73%, agreed with that position. Negotiate to end the war as soon as possible. Only 22%. Look at where we are now. It's a complete flip. It's the inverse now. 69% want to negotiate to end the war as soon as possible, compared to just 24% who want to fight until Ukraine wins. That's a 49 point drop in this position. Now, of course, negotiating to end the war as soon as possible, that's a bit more nuanced. Right. Ukrainians don't want to agree to all of Russia's demand, but I think the idea of even there being some territory that would be not formally recognized as being given, that Russia could in fact stay in, that does have majority support. But the idea of formal recognition of Russia's demands. Absolutely not. Clay, this is the challenge when you're dealing with the Russian military is you have to be. You have to be ready for the fact that, that they will make blunders. They will do things that make it seem like there's tremendous incompetence in the ranks of leadership. They will make big mistakes, but they will keep the meat grinder of Russian casualties going. And I think historically, and we could get into this another time, maybe, like the Russian psychology around warfare is whatever it takes, however many it takes. And they have a lot more people than Ukraine. So if you're in a World War I trench warfare style setup, which is effectively what they are, this Is Trench Warfare 2.0 on the Ukraine front. If that's where things are. You're also in a war of attrition, which, you know, I find the First World War both fascinating and horrifying.

[Clay Travis]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

When you read about the history of it and any of you who haven't seen it, just as an aside to get a sense of what it was like, that movie All Quiet on the Western Front that Netflix put out is a fantastic movie. Harrowing. I mean, it's not like a pleasant watch in that sense, but it really shows you what trench warfare in the First World War was like. And now we're in a place where the casualties are Mounting, but Russia can afford far higher casualties than the Ukrainians. And because there's no political mechanism of pressure on Putin, really, no internal political mechanism of pressure, it just keeps it going. And this is this. When you're up against autocracy, and Russia is an autocracy, we understand that when you're up against an autocracy, this is one of the challenges democracies have to care about body counts. Whether you think Ukraine is truly democracy or not. I know he sees. But Ukrainian people, certainly they think that they should have more of a voice in this than, than what you have with the Russians. Autocrats can just feed people into the meat grinder until they decide enough. Until they decide enough is enough. And that's where Putin, I think Clay has positioned himself. Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

And again, I think the Trump mediator role also then becomes. How involved does the United States get? And I do think, I know everybody wants to pretend that we're not involved. I still think the fact that we're giving almost all the weapons that are being used to kill the Russians, it's kind of a big deal. I mean, right. I mean, I know nobody really wants to talk about it, but if you are constantly giving someone weapons that they're using to kill other people, at some point in time, most people would see that as you being an accessory. I mean, this is the entire argument about Iran's involvement with Hezbollah, Iran's involvement with Hamas, Iran's involvement with the Houthis and so many other different terror groups. It's that they fund the weaponry that allows them to execute the terrorism. If I lived in Russia, the idea that the United States is claiming that it is in some way not involved, when every weapon that is basically being used to kill Russian troops is produced and provided by the United States, by and large, I know there's some European assistance, weapon wise, I would find that hard to accept. And so when I think about what the security agreement's going to look like, Buck, we've provided a certain level of securitized and securitization to Ukraine already, so boots on the ground is a little bit different. But when you're providing all of the weapons, I do think it's hard to say, well, the United States is completely unbiased, participant, non combatant here.

[Buck Sexton]

You know, there's, I don't think enough of this part of the Soviet Afghan war that is in the, in the public consciousness because, you know, everyone's seen Charlie Wilson's war pretty much very slick, a little glib, but it's a slick It's a good movie, it's a good watch, but it glides over some stuff. You had about a million Afghans killed in that war and the upper estimate is more like 2 million, a million people dead in, in that, from all kinds of Soviet, you know, everything, the enemy fire and, you know, execution.

[Clay Travis]

A lesson maybe that we should have thought of before we went into Afghanistan, by the way, like in recent history about that place basically being unconquerable or.

[Buck Sexton]

The lesson that two British wars in that region learned very painfully or Alexander the Great learned very painfully, or go down the list. It's just an ungovernable region for a whole bunch of reasons really. The topography is a huge part of it. And having seen that topography, especially when you get up in a helicopter and you see Afghanistan, you're like, how's anyone going to control this place? This place is wild. It's very hard to control. You know, I was, this is a, I know quite an aside, but I was just an apalachicole. It's very hard to control mountain people who don't want to be controlled, especially in a pre computer, pre industrial age. So that's something that all over the world, all throughout history, whether you're in Scotland or you're in Southeast Asia, people who live in the mountains tend to tell the government to, you know, to leave, you know, bleep off if you will. But back to the casualty rates here. This is why, you know, early on, I mean, I kept saying, and I'm remembering this because there was a tremendous ebullience once. And to be clear, I don't wish that Putin had taken the capital of Ukraine and cut the country in half. I'm just saying I just wish the war had ended a long time ago. Like one way or another, this thing being over would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. That would have been a better outcome, I think, given all the people who are now killed. And you're talking about the switch of territory, switching territory in areas where, you know, Russia is not Nazi Germany. Ok, they're not going to exterminate all the Russian speaking peoples in these areas or something. You're talking about Russian Federation versus Ukrainian control at the end of the day. And you know, they're not, the Russians are not going to be operating death camps for. They're not, they're certainly not doing in Crimea, which they took. Right. So I think we have to also keep that into context here. We're not trying to hold back the Russian Federation from committing genocide against a civilian population. Once it has control, I don't think that's going to happen at all. There are a lot of Russian speaking peoples in the East. This never gets talked about, but I've actually known some of them. I've known Ukrainian, Russian speaking Ukrainians, Clay, who actually would. This is, you're not, this is like, I know this is a traitorous comment to the Slavia Ukraine, but there are some people in the Far east who would rather be a part of the Russian Federation. They see it as a much more powerful country with much better long term prospects. That is reality too. Right. So I think that has to be taken into account when we're negotiating this. It's not, are you going to be in East Berlin or West Berlin.

[Clay Travis]

It's, it's not north and South Korea. Like you can't leave North Korea.

[Buck Sexton]

Right.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, we want to continue to have ingress and egress outside of these countries going forward.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, the perfect example is to be, look at Crimea. Are you hearing stories about, you know, death camps in Crimea for the Russian speaking. No, Russians control it now. They have Russian passports. And it's kind of business as usual in a lot of ways over there. Now, I'm not trying to be flippant about it, but that's what's gone on there. That is the outcome that we really want to see to stop the carnage in Eastern Ukraine. Russian Federation takes over. I know it's, you know, upsetting to a lot of people in Ukraine, a lot of Ukrainians, but if, if they don't like that as the end state, they have to come up with what's the better answer. And we, the American people, have to always in the background be thinking America first. We just want this thing to end.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

The most important thing, we don't want this conflict to continue on. It is bad for humanity, it is bad for business, it is bad for us because we are funding this thing. I think I said when it started, it'll end up costing a trillion dollars. I think, Clay, when you look at the European and American cost in this, it will be pretty close to that. When all said and done, it's already in the hundreds of billions. We're already on the hook for, I think 200 billion on this. So we are not just bystanders trying to bring about an end. We're also very much incentivized for that end to happen.

[Clay Travis]

No doubt we'll take some of your calls, by the way, your reactions and a lot more as this is ongoing. And keep in mind, we don't know exactly how this is going to go. Remember the last time Zelinsky, I believe, visited the White House? It kind of got some fireworks. So we may have to break in. We may have press conferences we don't expect. Again, all the European leaders in the White House right now. Zelinsky there. We will see how all of this continues to play out. But wanted to tell you as we're breaking down all of this ongoing news 911 more than a day in history. It's a day still taking lives. We remember the 2,977 people lost on 9 11, including many first responders, yet even more have died since from related illnesses. We have a whole generation of kids now. It's kind of crazy to think about that. Know basically nothing about 9 11, little to nothing for sure. And that's why the Tunnel of the towers 911 institute is righting that wrong by helping teachers educate kids in grades K through 12 with nonfiction resources. That's full curriculum units, scripted lessons, activities, background for teachers. They also provide first person accounts told through videos and the Discovering Heroes book series, even a 911 speakers bureau for classrooms to never forget. We must educate future generations and help our nation keep its vow. Donate $11 a month to tunnel the towers at t2t.org that's tthenumber2t.org.

[Buck Sexton]

Clay Travis and Buck Sexton telling it like it is.

[Clay Travis]

Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Mary Kathryn Hamm and Carol Markowitz]

Hey there. I'm Mary Kathryn Ham. And I'm Carol Markowitz. We've been in political media for a long time, long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane. That's why we started Normally, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity. We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling and with a healthy dose of humor. We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously. So if you're into common sense, sanity and some occasional sass, you're our kind of people. Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, welcome back into Clay. Anne Buck, everybody. It is a big day at the White House. You've got European leaders, Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine, Donald Trump, his top team sitting down, trying to solve the biggest in terms of casualties, in terms of men and materiel, the biggest conflict in the world right now. And we will bring you updates on this. We're also obviously very much watching what's going on in Israel and in Gaza. There seems to be some possible breaking news there. Clay, do we have it confirmed yet about.

[Clay Travis]

Well, and Hamas has evidently agreed to some of the terms in terms of a ceasefire and prisoner exchange, and we haven't heard Israel's response. So a lot of different big stories in geopolitics happening in real time right now.

[Buck Sexton]

You want to talk about boosting the, I mean, not that everything's about the economy, but sort of boosting the global economy. We end that war, you know Israel finishes the job, ends that war. This war in Ukraine comes to a conclusion. The world could be at peace. Actually, it could happen for a while here, at least most of the major conflicts. Let's take James in North Carolina. What's going on, James? Yes. Good afternoon, you guys. Yes.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, fire away. We got you.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes. I was a student of the Limbaugh Advanced Conservative Studies, and one of the things that Rush definitely said was there's some exceptions, but for the most part, until there's a decisive victory, there's just no peace. That may be the case here. And that's the challenge. That's the problem. Remember, In World War I, the decisive victory only came with American intervention. So that's a little bit of a scary. I'd say that's not necessarily the historical parallel we want to be citing.

[Clay Travis]

I also think, Buck, the calendar matters here. We've talked about this a little bit, but the weather is so brutal in the winter there that moving men in material becomes very difficult. So. And the winter obviously hits faster in Ukraine than it does here. So you're only talking about a fighting season of two and a half, three more months at this point, too.

[Buck Sexton]

Mike, in Massachusetts. We got about 40 seconds. Go for it. Okay, real quick. One of the things I don't think you guys have mentioned is how China fits into this equation and how they have essentially been a bulwark for the Russian economy. When this whole thing started, I think one of the objectives of the Europeans and probably the Democrats here, was their hatred of the Putin was a driving force in thinking we would bleed Russia dry eventually and that Putin would basically be overthrown. That doesn't seem to be playing out.

[Clay Travis]

It's a great point, Buck. And we should talk about the China impact. Also the economic side on the backside of this when we come back, second hour, good quality call. We'll discuss.

[Buck Sexton]

We'll dive. No, we'll dive into that. Because remember, the sanctions were supposed to destroy the Russian economy. That's what they said three years ago. Not even close. We'll talk about why I Heart presents.

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[Mary Kathryn Hamm and Carol Markowitz]

This is an iHeart podcast.