Hour 2 - Alan Dershowitz on Epstein

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Detailed Summary Episode: Hour 2 - Alan Dershowitz on Epstein
Release Date: July 17, 2025

---

Introduction and Senator Marsha Blackburn’s Interview (00:04 - 11:43)

Guests:

• Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee

Key Topics:

1. Senate's Rescission Package:

   • Rescission Focus: Senator Blackburn discusses the Senate's push to cut $9 billion from this year's budget, targeting discretionary spending areas such as NPR, the Corporation for Public Broadcast, USAID, and the State Department. Over a decade, these cuts could save approximately $90 billion.
   • Blackburn’s Remarks: “Taxpayers do not want their funds to be used for the Corporation for Public Broadcast addressing some of this wasteful spending...” [00:23]

2. Defunding NPR and Public Broadcast:

   • Rationale: Citing historical efforts by Ronald Reagan to defund NPR, Blackburn highlights perceived media bias against conservatives, particularly in coverage of political conventions.
   • Quote: “The Democrat convention was nearly all positive coverage and the Republican nearly all negative.” [01:00]

3. Trump’s Policy Successes:

   • Economic and Border Achievements: Blackburn emphasizes President Trump's success in controlling inflation, implementing tariffs, securing the southern border with the lowest illegal entry rates, and rebuilding the military.
   • Quote: “He’s dealing with inflation, he is dealing with tariffs, he is dealing with our standing in the world...” [03:23]

4. Judiciary Nominations and Senate Process:

   • Emil Bove’s Confirmation: Blackburn details the successful committee approval of Judge Emil Bove, despite Democratic opposition rooted in alleged past misconduct.
   • Quote: “The Democrats are trying to hold up every U.S. attorney, every U.S. marshal, every judicial appointment...” [07:51]

5. Tennessee’s Economic Environment:

   • No State Income Tax: Blackburn attributes Tennessee's robust economic growth and business-friendly environment to the absence of a state income tax, now enshrined in the state constitution.
   • Quote: “We have made certain that we will never have a state income tax. We actually now have it as a part of our state constitution.” [10:40]

Ad Breaks (13:31 - 37:05)

Advertisements for LegacyBox and washablesofas.com are presented. These segments are skipped in this summary.

Discussion on Maureen Comey’s Firing and Transition to Alan Dershowitz (37:05 - 38:55)

Key Topics:

1. Maureen Comey’s Termination:

   • Context: Buck Sexton and Clay Travis discuss the recent firing of Maureen Comey, daughter of former FBI Director James Comey, by Attorney General Pam Bondi.
   • Reasons for Firing: The dismissal is attributed to Comey’s perceived failure in prosecuting high-profile cases, such as Sean "Diddy" Combs’ sex trafficking case.
   • Quote: “Maureen Comey getting fired by Bondi... it's about performance.” [07:51]

2. Implications for Judicial Confirmations:

   • Senate Dynamics: Blackburn criticizes Democratic tactics to delay and obstruct judicial nominations, urging Senate leadership to expedite confirmations despite partisan resistance.
   • Quote: “We should be working all night, every night and every weekend until we get people confirmed.” [07:51]

3. Introduction to Alan Dershowitz:

   • Upcoming Interview: Buck Sexton introduces Alan Dershowitz, hinting at an in-depth discussion on Jeffrey Epstein and related investigations.

In-Depth Interview with Professor Alan Dershowitz (38:55 - 35:44)

Guest:

• Professor Alan Dershowitz, Defense Attorney for Jeffrey Epstein

Key Topics:

1. Trump’s Involvement in Epstein Files:

   • Refutation of Claims: Dershowitz denies any improper involvement of Donald Trump in Jeffrey Epstein’s illicit activities.
   • Quote: “There's no evidence that Trump is accused of having done anything improper...” [23:18]

2. Conspiracy Theories and Foreign Intelligence:

   • Mossad Assertions: Dershowitz dismisses theories linking Epstein to Israeli intelligence (Mossad), clarifying his own lack of involvement and confirming no contacts existed.
   • Quote: “It's absurd to think Epstein worked for Mossad or CIA...” [26:53]

3. Sarah Ransom’s False Accusations:

   • False Claims Exposed: Dershowitz highlights the fabricated accusations made by Sarah Ransom against prominent figures, emphasizing the absence of a client list detailing Epstein’s alleged victims.
   • Quote: “Sarah Ransom admitted to the New Yorker that she made up the whole story...” [29:09]

4. Epstein’s Plea Deal Critique:

   • Evaluation of the Deal: Dershowitz argues that Epstein’s plea deal was not a "sweetheart deal" but rather a standard agreement based on comparable cases in Broward and Palm Beach counties.
   • Quote: “Epstein was furious at that. He fired me, wouldn't pay my legal fee...” [29:29]

5. Prosecution Failures:

   • Overcharging Critique: Both Dershowitz and the hosts criticize the prosecution’s aggressive and ultimately unsuccessful approach in charging Epstein, suggesting simpler charges could have secured convictions.
   • Quote: “They could have gotten him on gun charges or drug charges... So the fact that they screwed all of that up to me is, I think an indictment of her that would justify moving on.” [29:29]

6. Public Distrust and Transparency:

   • Call for Complete Disclosure: Dershowitz advocates for the full release of all information related to the Epstein case, including negative details about accusers, to ensure a fair public judgment.
   • Quote: “What's fair is to reproduce everything so that the public court of public opinion... can make fair judgment.” [32:37]

7. President Trump’s Position:

   • No Direct Involvement: Dershowitz confirms that Trump has not sought his advice regarding the Epstein case and remains unaccused of any wrongdoing.
   • Quote: “No, no, not at all. I have no interest in the case at this point.” [35:14]

Final Remarks and Upcoming Segments (35:44 - 38:55)

Hosts' Commentary:

• Clay and Buck's Opinions: The hosts express skepticism over the current prosecution approaches and share their support for Dershowitz's perspectives.

Teasers for Next Episodes:

• Third Hour Preview: Topics include immigration discussions and Shane Gillis’ controversies.
• Final Ad Break: Sponsored by Preborn, promoting their mission to save unborn children through support and free ultrasounds.

---

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “Taxpayers do not want their funds to be used for the Corporation for Public Broadcast addressing some of this wasteful spending...” – Sen. Marsha Blackburn [00:23]
• “He’s dealing with inflation, he is dealing with tariffs, he is dealing with our standing in the world...” – Sen. Marsha Blackburn [03:23]
• “We have made certain that we will never have a state income tax. We actually now have it as a part of our state constitution.” – Sen. Marsha Blackburn [10:40]
• “There's no evidence that Trump is accused of having done anything improper...” – Alan Dershowitz [23:18]
• “Sarah Ransom admitted to the New Yorker that she made up the whole story...” – Alan Dershowitz [29:09]
• “Epstein was furious at that. He fired me, wouldn't pay my legal fee...” – Alan Dershowitz [29:29]
• “What's fair is to reproduce everything so that the public court of public opinion... can make fair judgment.” – Alan Dershowitz [32:37]

---

Conclusion

This episode of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show" delves deep into GOP legislative successes with Senator Marsha Blackburn, scrutinizes the judicial nomination process amidst partisan struggles, and features a comprehensive interview with Professor Alan Dershowitz concerning the controversial Epstein case. The discussions highlight key political maneuvers, economic strategies, and ongoing legal debates, providing listeners with insightful perspectives on current political and legal landscapes.

Transcript

[iHeart Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome in. Second hour of Klan Buck kicks off now. Senator Marsha Blackburn of the great state of Tennessee joins us. Senator Blackburn, always good to chat with you.

[Marsha Blackburn]

Well, it is so good to chat with you. And of course, we've been a little bit Busy here in D.C. yes.

[Buck Sexton]

And some good things happening, I think. So often in the world of commentary and talk radio we have to not only point out the serial failings of the Democrats, but try to prod the Republicans to move a little faster or a little further on something. But in this case, I think a little bit of a golf clap may be necessary, a little bit of a high five. The Senate has pushed forward this rescission package. Tell us a bit about what's contained and how does it feel to be able to be a part of the Senate, Senator, as they do something that Republicans have wanted to do for pretty much my entire adult life.

[Marsha Blackburn]

Well, you're right about that. And I was looking at something this week. Ronald Reagan started to push to try to defund NPR and the Corporation for Public Broadcast. And of course we know that many times they have a very biased view. They are anti conservative. And you can see it when you go through and look at how they covered the Democrat convention and the Republican convention. The Democrat convention was nearly all positive coverage and the Republican nearly all negative. Taxpayers do not want their funds to be used for the Corporation for Public Broadcast addressing that, addressing some of this wasteful spending that has taken place through USAID and the State Department. When you look at vegan food for Zambia or electric buses in Rwanda or voter ID programs in Haiti then and the list goes on and on. We could talk for hours of things that we were able to uncover that these agencies were taking their appropriated funds for and spending them on. And taxpayers don't want their hard earned dollars going for that. So 9 billion out of this year's budget drawing a red line through those discretionary spending items, which is what rescissions are for. And then if you say out of a 10 year budget window, all of that is gone. That's about $90 billion in savings.

[Clay Travis]

We're talking to Senator Marsha Blackburn about all of the successes that are taking place. Trump basically ran on on economy, border crime. It seems like he is delivering on all three of those fronts. And I know sometimes they overlap. So for instance, the border in crime, we certainly know they're illegal, violent perpetrators of crimes that should be removed from this country. Can you remember you've been in politics for a little while now. Can you remember a more consequential in terms of delivering results on what someone ran on first six months for a president and what we have seen so far from Trump, because I can't, I cannot.

[Marsha Blackburn]

The way he has, has really buckled down. And you know, Clay, we've talked about this a lot in the last week. As we remembered a year ago on Sunday, his, that assassination attempt, he has been very intentional, very purposeful. He made promises, he has kept those promises. He, he's dealing with inflation, he is dealing with tariffs, he's dealing with our standing in the world. He has secured that southern border. It is the lowest illegal entry into this country we have ever seen. And we know that he is making certain that things get done. We're rebuilding the military, we are addressing waste, fraud and abuse in government programs. That is what people voted for. He is delivering and it is a joy to work with him. And when you see every single day how he is sending power and authority and money back to the states, getting it out of D.C. draining the swamp, which he said he would do, and sending power back to the people, whether it's education or energy or regulations or health care or benefits, and saying, here, let's get it out of D.C. let's get this money back where it belongs.

[Clay Travis]

I think, I know I did. When you put out, I think it was a 20 point plan for President Trump as basically the Republican platform for 2024, it was super succinct. It was very understandable. If you go back and look at that, I think it's very worthwhile maybe to bring that back around to circulate so people can see is one of the most remarkably, hey, I'm going to do this. And then he's delivered on it. And I get sometimes why he's a little bit frustrated because I don't know that we've ever seen anything like that. Lots of politicians say they're gonna do things and then they don't deliver. That's a very transactional document. And he's delivered on virtually every point on that document that you guys put out.

[Marsha Blackburn]

You're right about that. And it was a joy to chair that platform committee for him. And he was very much engaged with that and is delivering. And as we did, the big beautiful bill, no tax on tips or overtime. And a provision I have worked on for years, no tax on Social Security. And of course we do that by a $6,000 bonus deduction per senior per year. So a couple married, filing jointly that are 65 and over, that's $12,000 in bonus income, income tax deductions for that couple. And that allows them to utilize those funds basically tax free. But President Trump made these promises. He said, this is what we're going to do. And he is delivering on every point. And the American people are responding. You see, his polling numbers are better than they have ever been. The Democrats, our friends on the left, have gone so far off the cliff on the left that many of my friends who are independents and Democrats are going, oh, my goodness, I can't go there with them because of how radical they have become and some of the socialist ideas that they have truly embraced and are promoting.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Blackburn, I know you're on the Judiciary Committee, and a very interesting and certainly very qualified nominee just got put through the Senate panel, right? Emil Bove, who had defended President Trump in the past, a former federal prosecutor. I was wondering if you could speak to the level of opposition to somebody who seems to be so eminently qualified for the U.S. court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit from Democrats is, well, why? Why are they so opposed to this one? And then also just give us a sense as to how the judge confirmation machinery in the Senate is working under Trump's term so far. Are you getting through the nominees? You want to, you need to. How's that all going?

[Marsha Blackburn]

Well, we are working on some more today. And earlier this week, we did the First Circuit Court court appointee, and that is Whitney Hermandorfer out of Tennessee. She'll be on the 6th Circuit. And you're referencing Emil Bovey. And Emil had represented President Trump at one point and had worked with Todd Blanche. And we got him out of committee today. The Democrats were so upset about this, they did not want to approve him because they felt like he had done this, that or the other wrong. But, Buck, what they're going to do is nitpick. They're going to try to find something, and something's wrong with everybody and everything that's related to President Donald Trump because they have Trump Derangement syndrome. It is alive. It is out there. They are living it. And what we did as the Democrats got up and walked out after the vote had started, we continued the vote, and he was approved and he has. Now he will move to the floor for his confirmation vote, and I hope we vote him very swiftly. Now, the Democrats are trying to hold up every U.S. attorney, every U.S. marshal, every judicial appointment that we have because they want to impair the ability of President Trump's administration to carry out their agenda. So we are encouraging Senator Grassley to find a to force the issue of moving forward with these nominees. Don't hold them over. Let's just as we do the hearings, let's move them to the floor so we can get them up for the vote. Because the Democrats are calling cloture on every single nominee, which for your circuit judges is 30 hours on the clock. And for the others and for your U.S. attorneys, it's two hours. So if they're not going to work with us, we should be working all night, every night and every weekend until we get people confirmed.

[Clay Travis]

We're talking to Marsha Blackburn. I want to finish Senator from Tennessee. I want to finish with this and I'm going to be hammering at home because I think there's a lot of New Yorkers listening right now and I know there's a lot of Californians. Senator Blackburn is the primary reason why there is no state income tax in the state of Tennessee. And for people out there who are looking at commie mom dummy that's coming in in New York City. We've got a pretty good economic environment in the state of Tennessee, wouldn't you suggest?

[Marsha Blackburn]

I think we have a great economic environment. You know, Clay, we talk a lot about how leading that fight against the state income tax in Tennessee and killing that thing that required our state to go through a reset and look at the programs where we were spending money and to actually reduce what we were spending because we didn't have the funds and we have a balanced budget amendment for our state. And I think that the reason you see Tennessee regularly as the number one or two or three or four state for business and relocations and business growth and GDP growth, it is because we are a well managed state and we have made certain that we will never have a state income tax. We actually now have it as a part of our state constitution.

[Clay Travis]

Amen. We'll talk to you again soon, Senator Blackburn. Appreciate the work and we'll talk and we look forward to chatting again soon maybe about a big announcement. When you be amazed by what people can find when it's time to move out of the family home. Going through the process right now here in the Travis house. I don't know when our house can be finished, but I do know we have so many different memories stacked up right now, ready to move. And a lot of those are old school, right? Photographs, not digital because we got married right before everything went digital. So we still have some old school. First son was born before everything went fully digital. But how many of you out there have great, incredible family memories that might be generations old. Heck, they might be a hundred years old or more that have never been digitized. Maybe they're in grandma's house. Maybe they're in grandpa's house. Maybe there is a keeper of the family history and lore and what would happen if they passed or that just got lost or God forbid you had some sort of fire or a flood or a natural disaster that might destroy some of those family memories? Why not preserve them forever? Right now digitally with our friends at LegacyVox, once a digital file is created, it can last forever, certainly longer than any videotape would. You'll be able to watch the digital files anywhere, be it on your phone, laptop, or smart tv. Legacy Box has done this for a million and a half families, including my own. Visit legacybox.com clay today for 50% off your order. That's legacybox.com clay stories of freedom, Stories of America. Inspirational stories that unite us all each day. Spend time with Clay and Buck. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices with sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anibe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus, our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh hey, welcome back into Clay and Buck. We've got Alan Dershowitz joining us a couple minutes. We want to bring up to speed on some of the stories we're going to be diving into with Professor Dershowitz himself, so he'll be with us. He had that article in the Wall Street Journal laid out some of a clear insider perspective on the on the Epstein case and so we'll ask him about some of that. And we've also got interesting news from yesterday that just will Bring to Professor Dershowitz's attention, which is that Pam Bondi, AG Bondi of the doj, has fired Maureen Comey. That name is familiar to all of you because Maureen Comey is the daughter of James Comey, also known as Sanctacomy to those of you who have been rolling along with us for a long time, the most sanctimonious and smarmy federal prosecutor and former FBI chief of perhaps all time. And Maureen Comey has been fired from the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan. She had previously worked on the prosecutions of Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, and most recently. And what I think was a clear failure of the prosecution to do a good job. The Sean Diddy Combs case. The Sean Combs sex trafficking case in New York, where they went with a RICO charge, which Clay and I knew. I'm not even a lawyer, and I was like, that's a bad idea. And lawyer Clay agreed. So when the two of us see it that way, guess what? We were right, Clay. Maureen Comey getting fired by Bondi. I don't know if we have more on this other than can't the AG fire. Are you. You're serving at the pleasure of the President when you. At some level. Right. You're appointed by the president to be the U.S. attorney for. So I assume you're at the pleasure of the president. Therefore, the ag, on behalf of the president can just fire you because they want to fire you.

[Clay Travis]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

Is that. Is that not how it works?

[Clay Travis]

I think. I think that is an accurate read on it. I would also point out that she just failed on the Diddy prosecution.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, yeah, so I just.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, I mean, but I mean, I think if you are just want to say, hey, this is a entire. It's not based on who your dad is. It's not based on his relationship with Trump. It's just you aren't getting the job done. What is the conviction rate for federal prosecutions? 99%.

[Buck Sexton]

Basically 98 or so. It's some. It's. If they bring the charge, you're probably doing a plea deal because if you don't, you're going to prison for a very long time.

[Clay Travis]

That is a tremendous swing and a miss by federal prosecutors. So I actually think you could justify Levocide, whatever her last name is. I actually think that case was such a mess and they so aggressively overcharged it. As we said on this program, we were not surprised by the not guilty verdict, but also they passed over very routine convictions. They could have gotten him on Gun charges. They could have gotten him on drug charges. Things that were not complicated and didn't need to get into trafficking or consent or coercion and all this complicated things for a jury. All they had to do was say, hey, he had, didn't he have guns with serial numbers filed off? Yeah, I mean this is easy case stuff. I mean, drugs in your possession. These are routine cases now.

[Buck Sexton]

They don't in fact co located illegal drugs and firearms. That alone is that now, now you're talking federal. That's a charge on, on its own. If you've got like a kilo of cocaine in the safe next to an, next to your AR15, big problem. Big problem.

[Clay Travis]

So it's not as if they had a massive challenge. All they had to do was just basic blocking and tackling and they would have gotten convictions on those cases. So the fact that they screwed all of that up to me is, I think an indictment of her that would justify moving on. Now, does she not get the benefit of the doubt because her last name is Comey? Probably. We'll talk about this a little bit with Dershowitz. Yeah, I think it's fair to say we'll talk about that a little bit with Dershowitz when we come back again. He had the big interesting Wall Street Journal editorial and he was the defense attorney for Jeffrey Epstein during all of these investigations that began back in 2005. Ish. So we will talk with him and get the absolute latest there. But maybe you're dragging a little bit. Maybe you don't have the energy that you used to. Maybe you just want to be able to put up a little bit more weight at the gym. Have you thought about chalk? Have you thought about adding a little bit of extra energy to your life so you don't sound like one of the Democrats are going to play you who had to go to punch. Sorry. Got post traumatic stress because you watch Trump get shot. You don't want to be in that camp. You don't want to be in that camp at all.

[Buck Sexton]

I sent chalk last week to my in laws. So they, they like it when they're doing yard work and stuff around the house. Gets them fired up, Clay. They're like machines.

[Clay Travis]

It'll hook you up. Go check it out. If you haven't Already, go to chalk.com that's choq.com youm don't want Joe Biden energy. You want Donald Trump energy. Make sure you have [e-mail] My name Clay for a big time discount on any subscription for life. That's chalk.com. my name Clay. Get hooked up today.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We'll be with hopefully Preston Dershowitz here in a second. Busy man. We'll be calling him in the meantime. But we had President Trump just now. We're not, let's not play the audio. Apparently the audio is so low quality that for all of you listening all across this country of ours, you be tough to make it out. I'll just tell you, he was asked about by a reporter, would you consider appointing a special counsel to investigate the Epstein investigation that just happened? And President Trump responded, I have nothing to do with it. So I think it is very, very unlikely that that will happen. I've heard some people saying that that's what they would like to happen here. Some commentators out there. Clay, as far as I can see it, there would have to be some reason for a special counsel. And the reason is generally that there's a conflict of interest. And so now, now you're, you would be appointing a special counsel because you'd be saying, I can't be trusted, my administration can't be trusted, the DOJ to handle this internally. To me, that you're just creating more problems. I don't see why that would be helpful at all. And, and I think Trump is, there's almost no, no chance in my mind he's going to go through with something like that.

[Clay Travis]

Well, I think you can just go to the precedent of the first Trump administration. I think a lot of people would say they got knocked off their feet by his frustration with his first attorney General Sessions. I think I'm remembering that correctly. Right. The former Alabama senator who was Trump's first attorney general, not being willing to just say, hey, there's nothing to this Russia collusion allegation. Instead, you had the step back, hey, I've got a conflict. I can't look at this. Here's the other challenge that I would say. So I, I tweet about this a little bit to me, the solution is pretty simple. You need to have AG Pambandi and Cash Patel have a joint press conference, answer every question that you possibly can on it. And by the way, we're waiting on Alan Dershowitz. And, but I thought, and so then you kind of draw the line there. I think the challenge is how many people out there are going to say, hey, I now trust the decision that was rendered by the independent counsel if it endorses the decisions made before by Pam Bondi and Cash Patel. And by the way, I do Think the political aspect of this. Okay, we've got Alan Dershowitz with us now. And Professor Dershowitz, we appreciate you joining us. We read some of your editorial yesterday in the Wall Street Journal, and I just want to start with this question because probably the number one question that this audience has before we dive into a few others. You wrote about it in the editorial. Elon Musk said Trump is in the Epstein files. This larger Epstein universe of investigation, you say that is not true based on what you know as the defense attorney for Jeffrey Epstein for many years. What is Trump's role or involvement in any way in this larger context?

[Alan Dershowitz]

There's no evidence that Trump is accused of having done anything improper, wrong, sexual. Donald Trump knew Jeffrey Epstein in Palm Beach. They hung out together. He said some nice things about him in an article for Vanity Fair, and then they got into a fight either over a real estate matter or about an impropriety of Epstein in relation to the daughter of one of the guests at Mar a Lago, and their relationship terminated. Of course he's in the files. Half the people in Palm beach are in the files. I'm in the files. Of course, I flew on his airplane. I was his lawyer. All of his lawyers flew on the airplane. But we never. I never flew with anybody who was young or underage or anything like that. So there's a big confusion about the file. The file contains, you know, so many people, thousands and thousands and thousands of innocent people. And then there's the accusation. So there. There are two issues as to the accusation. There is no client list. Let's be very clear. Jeffrey Epstein never compiled a list of people to whom he allegedly trafficked any young woman. It just doesn't exist. It never existed. And I've never said it existed. Nobody I know has ever said it existed. Nobody has ever seen it. What there is is this. The FBI interviewed some of the alleged victims, and the alleged victims named some people, and those names have been redacted. I know who those people are. There's nobody in current government. There's no Donald Trump. There's no Bill Clinton. There's nobody. I'll give you an example. A woman named Sarah Ransom wrote a series of emails to the New York Post, to Maureen Callahan of the New York Post. In it, she accused Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and Richard Branson of having underage sex with minors and said she had videos of them. This was in the run up to the election of 2016. Wow, wow, wow. Big news. So they did an investigation, and this woman, Sarah Ransom, admitted To the New Yorker that she made up the whole story, the whole cloth. She didn't know anybody. She just made up the story because she wanted to have something on Jeffrey Epstein. So that's the kind of thing you get these kinds of fake accusations. And of course the courts reveal the fake accusations because they want to protect the so called victims. Now, Sarah Hranson was not a victim. She's a perpetrator. She falsely accused people and admitted. But she is being protected and the people that she accused are not being protected. So that's what is going on here. And that's why some of the courts have been so concerned about revealing half truth accusations without going and looking at who the accusers are.

[Buck Sexton]

Professor Dershowitz, on the issue of the allegations conspiracy, however one wants to frame it of foreign intelligence contacts specifically, the allegation has been leveled by some pretty, pretty big voices out there. You mentioned, I think in your editorial that this has happened, that they're saying it's Israel, that there's Mossad connection here and you address that. Could you lay out your case here? As a former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein, why you say the foreign intel thing just doesn't hold water?

[Alan Dershowitz]

Well, first, I was also a former lawyer for the Mossad. I represented the Mossad back in the day when five of their agents were arrested in Cyprus. And the Mossad retained me pro bono to represent these five people. And I got them out. I have good sources in Israeli intelligence and I can tell you with 100% assurance there's never been any contact between Israeli intelligence or Israel in general and Jeffrey Epstein. He became friendly after all this happened with Ehud Barak, the first former prime Minister. They did business dealings together, but there's never been any contact with intelligence. And the former Prime Minister of Israel, Bennett looked into it again and stated on behalf of Israel basically that there's no truth to it at all. And this logical, it would be impossible. What if he had worked for any intelligence agency, Mossad, CIA, any agency. Who's the first person he would have told? His lawyers, me and the other lawyers when we were trying to get a good deal for him. The best thing we could have had going for us is oh my God, the guy worked for an intelligence agency. Leave him alone. He never told us that. And quite the opposite. He denied any information that would be helpful to him along those lines. So it's a completely made up story. Now I know the reason for the made up story. Made up story had the following basis. His former girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell is Now in prisons, father Robert Maxwell, who was a publisher in England, may well have had some connections to the Mossad. And so Tucker Carlson probably said, oh, my God, if his girlfriend's father had connections, he probably did, too. But then Tucker Carlson goes further and says, everybody in Washington knows. Everybody in Washington knows that he worked for the most side. That's just blatant bigotry, and it's just wrong, and it's just not. Not credible. And he ought to take that back. Nobody in Washington knows that. The CIA doesn't know it. The White House doesn't know it. I don't know anybody credible who believes that Jeffrey Epstein would have been hired by the. By the. By the Mossad or by the CIA. It's absurd.

[Clay Travis]

A lot of people point to the initial prosecution. You were the defense attorney for Jeffrey Epstein. That was called a, quote, sweetheart deal. You say Epstein was actually upset with the deal that he got. How does that deal compare to you, to other criminal defendants? Was it a sweetheart deal that he got initially?

[Alan Dershowitz]

No. In fact, it was a worse deal. What we did is we did a complete analysis of every single case that was comparable. And remember, the only thing he was charged with, the only thing he was charged with was having sexual contact. Not sexual intercourse, sexual contact, massages with two women, one way above the age of consent. And the. But for money. So it was a crime. And the other, I think, three or four months below the age of consent, 17 and a half years old. That's. We did a thorough analysis. I did that analysis personally of every case in Broward county and Palm beach county and Miami and Dade county of people who were charged with that kind of thing. Not a single one of them got any prison time. So we went to the. The people in charge and we said, you know, care is fair. Let's give him a sentence that corresponds to past sentences. Ultimately, we worked out a deal where he sentenced to 18 months in. In jail and he'd have to register as a sex offender. Epstein was furious at that. He fired me, wouldn't pay my legal fee, thought I was a terrible lawyer because I got him such a bad deal. You know, I thought it was a pretty good deal. And as a result of that deal, by the way, that's how the feds got involved, because the police officials in Palm beach county thought they could do better. And so they went to the Fed.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, they thought. Professor Dershowitz. They thought there was a lot of others. I mean, there were a lot of other allegations of more serious stuff that were out there. That certainly came to light later.

[Alan Dershowitz]

That's right. But he was not charged with any of that.

[Buck Sexton]

Right.

[Alan Dershowitz]

So he pleaded guilty. The only things he's ever pleaded guilty to or these two charges involving a 17 year old and I don't remember 21 or 22 year old, something like that. Those are the only hitting you have ever charged with until later. And then years later, I was not his lawyer after that. I stopped being his lawyer once this was over. The first case was over. He was charged with lots of lot, lot more. By the way, the reason that he was charged with a state case, not a federal case back in 2006, because they had no proof that he had ever taken women across state lines. All the young people that he had any contact with were from Palm Beach. These were mostly teenagers who worked in what were called. I had never heard this term before, but I learned that when I was doing the investigation, whack shacks. They were places in the, in the West Palm beach where you'd go and pay $100 and you'd get a happy ending massage. And so Epstein would go and his people would go and they'd go to. These young girls were making 100 bucks and said, you know, we know a guy who'll give you $200 if you do the same thing. And that's how it started. So it was all local and they couldn't get him on federal charges because it's not a crime to pay for sex locally. It's not a federal crime, it's a state crime. So he pleaded to that state crime.

[Clay Travis]

We're talking to Professor Alan Dershowitz. I put up a poll. 70% of people who respond to that poll said they believe that Cash Patel, Pam Bondi, Donald Trump are lying about what's in the Epstein case in front of them right now. I imagine that those same 70% are going to say, well, of course Alan Dershowitz is going to lie now too. What should happen?

[Alan Dershowitz]

What interest would I have in lying? I have no interest in the case at this point. I've been completely cleared and vindicated of anything improper or wrong. I'm just there to try to straighten out the record. I know the facts. I looked at the investigation. What should happen is, is what I said should have happened from day one. Everything should be revealed. But by everything, I mean not only the accusations, some of which are false. We know that the Sarah Ransom accusations were false. Everything should be revealed, including the negative information about the accusers. And there's lots of negative information about the accusers Some of the accusers ultimately helped Epstein recruit young women. And so everything should come out, but what shouldn't happen is selective release. That is just the accusations without the negative information about the accusers. That would be unfair. What's fair is to reproduce everything so that the public court of public opinion, people can make fair judgment as to who's guilty and who's not. Look, we know the names of people who have been accused. They are some of the most distinguished people. These are public records. George Mitchell, the man who brought about peace in Ireland and peace in the, in the former Yugoslavia. He was accused of having unprotected sex on a half a dozen occasions. Another person was Bill Richardson that's been made public. He was the former ambassador to the UN Another person was Ehud Barak. And so we don't know whether there's any truth to any of these accusations. We know they're out there and you know, they've been covered widely in the press. The Miami Herald wrote article after article after article by a totally one sided and biased journalist who was trying to get the Pulitzer Prize and didn't because her, her reporting was not. Was that accurate.

[Clay Travis]

Last question about this for you here and we appreciate the time. Has President Trump asked your advice about what he should do? And just to reiterate, he is not named accused, anything like that based on everything you've seen?

[Alan Dershowitz]

No, no, not at all. Not. I can tell you categorically he's not accused and no, he's not sought my advice. I have written my op ed in the Wall Street Journal. I talked about it in shows like yours. I'm, you know, right now on a book tour promoting my book the the Preventive State. And so I'm anxious to have television and radio interviews. And while I was on my book tour for the Preventive State, this story broke. And so I've been talking about the story more than I've been talking about my book.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you. Time, sir.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you so much, sir. We'll be right back.

[Clay Travis]

Got a lot to unpack there. Yeah, you ain't imagining it. The world has gone insane. Reclaim your sanity with Clay and Buck. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Time for a sofa upgrade. Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe. Where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large. Spaces. Anabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop [e-mail] Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, welcome back into Clay Ann Buck. We'll dive into some stuff on the interview we just did with Jeffrey, I mean with with on Jeffrey Epstein with Professor Dershowitz. And we will also dive into some immigration talk and Shane Gillis lighting up the sbs. Big third hour coming your way. But first up here, Preborn. Incredibly important work day in and day out. The lives of 67,000 babies were saved last year by the efforts of the Preborn staff. You know the name Preborn? It's a nonprofit that focuses on saving the lives of unborn children. If last year's activities are any indication, they're doing an incredible job of this and they're doing this day in and day out. Right now they need your donations. They need support from the pro life community. They don't get any government funding. Preborn brings in moms who are making that key decision whether to give life or choose abortion for their baby. And they offer them a free ultrasound so they can meet the child growing in their womb. And then it's so much easier and so much more likely that that mom is going to choose life. And Preborn is there to offer love and support. $28 is the cost of that free ultrasound. So if you have the means, please consider donation. And someone out there right now who is truly blessed and wants to spread their grace and has been very lucky in life is willing to donate a new ultrasound machine. I know it. It's $15,000. But a $15,000 donation from one person listening right now would save thousands and thousands of tiny babies. It's 100% tax deductible. So please, someone out there step up and save thousands of tiny babies. Dial pound 250 and C say the keyword baby. That's pound 250. Say baby or visit preborn. Com buck preborn. Com buck sponsored by preborn.

[Alan Dershowitz]

This is an I Heart podcast.