Hour 2 - Buck's Crazy Credit Card Story

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Hour 2: Buck's Crazy Credit Card Story

Date: January 13, 2026
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this hour, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton dive into several hot-button issues at the intersection of politics, law, and everyday life. They analyze the Supreme Court's deliberations on transgender athletes in women's sports, discuss the geopolitics surrounding Iran and parallels to the fall of authoritarian regimes, and shift gears to heated debate about proposed credit card interest rate caps—with Buck sharing his own personal credit card horror story. Throughout, there's a consistent blend of analysis, humor, and personal anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Supreme Court Case: Transgender Athletes in Women’s Sports

[00:04 - 14:17]

• Background: The Supreme Court heard arguments on whether states (specifically West Virginia and Idaho) can bar biological men from competing in women’s sports. This case is seen as foundational for the future of gender and athletics in America.

  • Clay expresses disbelief that this is even a question at the Supreme Court level.
  • Both hosts predict a likely 6–3 decision along “conservative vs. liberal” lines.

• Main Arguments:

  • Language Manipulation: Buck accuses the “gender communism movement” of constantly shifting language (sex vs. gender) to confuse and control debate.
    • “One of the main hallmarks ... is to constantly change the language and to make people feel like they can't even speak about this without running afoul… avoiding the central issue, which is that men and women are different.” – Buck Sexton [04:08]
  • Biological Realities: Buck insists, “There are actual physiological, biological differences between us. This is fundamental to society.” [05:04]
  • Delusion Theory: Buck introduces a central theme from his forthcoming book ("Manufacturing Delusion"): “Menticide”—authoritarian regimes force people to repeat obvious untruths to breakdown rational thought.

• Memorable Quotes:

  • “It’s pretty easy open and shut case to me ... Are there any boys that are suing because girls have decided to identify as boys and dominate in boy’s sports?” – Clay [07:44]
  • Clay references an unexpected editorial from The Washington Post that takes a stance against trans women in female sports:
    “The Supreme Court has the chance this week to save women's sports ... separating the sexes exists to mitigate biological gaps...” [08:50]

• Cultural Shift: Both express surprise at The Washington Post echoing arguments they’ve made for years, suggesting the tide is turning in mainstream discourse.

  • “Even the Washington Post ... is now writing on their editorial page the exact arguments that you or I have been making basically on this show for years.” – Clay [09:38]

• SCOTUS Dynamics: The hosts anticipate liberals on the Court (Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson, Kagan) will dissent on ideological grounds, not scientific ones.

  • “It is religious belief for Ketanji Brown Jackson, for Sotomayor ... their objection has to be on the record to perpetuate this fantasy.” – Buck [12:52]

• Looking Forward: Clay speculates if Democrats will back off or double down following an expected Supreme Court loss. Buck is certain: they will double down to avoid admitting error.

  • “They won't give it up ... Not because just of the arrogance ... but because that means we were right. And that's unthinkable to them.” – Buck [14:17]

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2. Personal Asides: Haircuts, Beards, and Rapid Radios

[16:47 - 18:06]

• Clay compliments Buck’s “Miami fade” haircut, joking he’d be popular with high schoolers.
• Buck pokes fun at Clay’s beard compared to a “Khalid Sheikh Mohammed style”—injecting lighthearted, bantering energy.
• Brief mention of Rapid Radios, a communication device, used by both hosts’ families.

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3. Credit Card Interest Rates and Buck's “Crazy Credit Card Story”

[19:01 - 36:40]

• Political Context: Trump has proposed capping credit card interest rates at 10%. Clay raises legal doubts and frames this as a populist, political maneuver designed to address voter frustration over affordability (“the 2026 election is going to be decided on affordability…” [25:02]).

  • Ted Cruz’s view (from earlier): Caps could restrict credit access to riskier borrowers.

• Host Experiences:

  • Buck never carried a balance, avoids debt:
    “I never ran up a debt on credit card companies when I had no money and when it would have been a lot of fun to go buy like a new jet ski, I did not do.” – Buck [22:19]
  • Clay flags predatory banking/credit card practices: “Banks will screw you at every opportunity that they can too.” [24:23]

• Buck’s Credit Card Horror Story:

  • [26:39 - 28:38]
    • In his CIA days, Buck closes a zero-balance credit card. Capital One mails an undisclosed $5 account closing fee to his old address.
    • Eighteen months later, a collection agency informs him that the debt had ballooned and his credit is ruined.
    • “They sent a $5 charge to shut it down ... I heard nothing ... I got a call 18 months later from a collection agency saying I owed them like $300 now, and my credit was wrecked over $5. ... Credit card companies act like scumbags sometimes is my point.” – Buck [28:02]

• Financial Literacy:

  • Strong agreement that lack of financial education (credit cards, compound interest, mortgages) leaves people vulnerable.
  • “Finance should be required ... they don't teach it because they want you to be debt slaves.” – Buck [36:25]

• Listener Calls:

  • [34:23] Hank in Annapolis: Warns cap might backfire—people rack up balances at 10%, then ballooning rates crush them.
    • Clay: “That's actually a really good point ... Maybe you take on more because you're like, it's only 10%.” [34:45]
  • [35:23] Sheila in Memphis: Teaches 10-year-old grandson about compound interest and debt traps. “You're getting it, buddy.” [36:16]
    • Clay: “This is one of the things ... that I think should be standard in every school.” [36:18]

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Notable Quotes

• Buck Sexton [04:08]:
  “One of the main hallmarks...is to constantly change the language and to make people feel like they can’t even speak about this without running afoul...avoiding the central issue, which is that men and women are different.”

• Clay Travis [07:44]:
  “Are there any boys that are suing because girls have decided to identify as boys and dominate in boy’s sports?...Of course it doesn’t happen.”

• Buck Sexton [28:02]:
  “They sent a $5 charge to shut it down.... I got a call 18 months later from a collection agency saying I owed them like $300 now, and my credit was wrecked over $5...Credit card companies act like scumbags sometimes...”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Supreme Court transgender athletes case: [00:04 - 14:17]
• Washington Post shift editorial:
  • Clay reads excerpt: [08:50]
  • Buck and Clay reflect: [09:38]
• Buck’s credit card story: [26:39 - 28:38]
• Listener calls on credit cards: [34:23 - 36:25]
• Financial literacy rant: [36:25 - 36:40]

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Tone

Insightful, unapologetic, occasionally sarcastic, and rooted in personal experience.
Buck and Clay frequently joke and riff, using relatable anecdotes, but consistently thread pointed political and cultural critiques throughout the episode.

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Takeaways

• The show’s hosts see the Supreme Court case as a pivotal culture-war issue but believe the biological distinction is clear-cut and the public sentiment is shifting—evidenced by the Washington Post editorial.
• There’s bipartisan skepticism about financial institutions; both hosts relate personal stories or opinions about the pitfalls of credit and banking.
• Strong advocacy for greater financial literacy, starting in adolescence, as a defense against predatory practices.
• The political underpinning of Trump’s credit card interest cap proposal is recognized, but the hosts warn listeners to read past the headline promise to practical realities and risks.

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For first-time listeners, this hour is emblematic of Clay and Buck’s style: robust debate, real-world stories, a dash of humor, and a consistent pulse on what resonates with their largely conservative, middle-American audience.

Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis BUCK SEXTON SHOW we appreciate all of you hanging out with us. Trump was just asked, so let me kind of set the table here. We just talked with Senator Ted Cruz. Appreciate the time he spent with us talking about Iran. We've been talking about Minneapolis. We're soon going to talk about the Supreme Court case today dealing with basic questions such as can men be able to compete against women in women's sports or should they be kept out? We will update you on that. We are actually scheduled to be joined by Jennifer say, who has been a huge part of this battle. Producer Ali, she's going to join us at 2:30. I meant to say that during the last break, I forgot. So we will discuss that case in the third hour. But President Trump right now is in Detroit area at a Ford dealership, Ford factory, sorry. And he was just asked about Iran as a part of those travels. And he said you're going to find out and it's a good idea if Americans, if there are any there, evacuate from Iran. You just heard what Ted Cruz said. I think that it is quite clear. I really thought it was interesting that Senator Ted Cruz told us that he thought potentially certainly within the next 90 days and then he said maybe within the next few hours the Ayatollah could fall in Iran. And he said that on the heels of a trip he just took with Secretary of War Pete Hegseth to go visit Space X and Elon Musk. They were in Texas yesterday. So that is all out there. It is certainly worthy of paying attention to. It is right now the biggest story in the world we could be, could be dealing with a 1989 like moment in this country where much as Ronald Reagan, I know it happened in the bush one, the senior bush first term back in 1989. It was after Reagan left office. But but the Berlin Wall coming down, if you look at Venezuela, if you look at what is going on right now in Cuba, if you look at what is going on in Iran right now, certainly Russia is struggling in the Ukraine war. America's adversaries are at their weakest point that we have seen in some time. And it is worth paying attention to because we could have a modern day echo of the Berlin Wall when it comes to evil being defeated. Now with that in mind, we also buck are dealing with a Supreme Court case and we kind of touched on this early in the show. The Supreme Court heard a case today about whether men should be able to compete in women's sports about whether boys should be able to compete in girl sports. I can't believe that we have reached a point where this is an actual Supreme Court case. But the states of West Virginia and Idaho are being sued because they, along with many other states, have put in place policies that do not allow men to be able to compete in women's sports. And this is a very foundational element of sports. It's why we have separate men and women's sports. And it seemed, based on the questioning, Buck, you got to hear some of it. I got to hear some of it. I didn't hear every question and hear every aspect of this, but it feels like to me, the six conservatives, the six sane Republicans, are going to say this is permissible and the three liberals are going to say this isn't. Is that the read you've kind of got on this as well?

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, absolutely. They're doing everything they can, pulling all of the mental gymnastics possible, Whether we're talking about specific, most, mostly Sotomayor and Catanja, Brown, Jackson, but also Kagan. They're doing everything they can to keep gender communism alive because it is on the ropes right now. If you get this decision, if this comes down and it is made quite clear that you're allowed to have sports segregated by gender. And gender is real, and sex and gender, these games they play. It's not gender, it's sex. It's not sex, it's gender. One of the main hallmarks, Clay, of this entire gender communism movement is to constantly change the language and to make people feel like they can't even speak about this without running afoul of or being ridiculed for not understanding the latest jargon or the latest very thin slicing of the onion that goes on, and using that as a means of avoiding the central issue, which is that men and women are different. Women, we have penises, they have vaginas, and there are actual physiological, biological differences between us. This is fundamental to society. And yes, I write about this, Clay. This is an entire chapter in my book coming out February 17th, Manufacturing Delusion. I talk about what's called menticide, the destruction of essentially your mind, the homicide of your mind. This is. Has been practiced by authoritarian regimes, whether it's the Nazis or the Soviets or the Chinese Communists. And one of the fundamental approaches, the foundational approaches, is not to get people to lie about things that are. That they think or they have opinions on, but to break you down by. By lying about the most obvious things over and over and over again. You know, you know Were you the guy who assassinated Abraham Lincoln? Yes, it was me. Yes, I did it. I mean, they do this intentionally because it effectively scrambles your mind after a while when you have to say things. And there's some line, actually, I think I quote it in the book. But it's a line that came across in my research where it's not. The big lie is not that you can tell, that you can convince people of your ability to move mountains. It's to convince them that the mountains that they've always known are there are actually gone. And in this case, gender is a mountain that we have always known is there, and they're saying it's not there. Actually, that's. Even. You could always say we can change something in the future. And they can say, well, we don't know yet. We don't know yet. But to change something that you know and have always known is to rewrite the basic script within your mind. Again, chapter in the book Manufacturing Delusion and Clay. On this one, the Supreme Court justices, you could see what they were trying to do, the ones trying to keep this alive. What about the one in a million chance that you have somebody who is able to take the, the, the hormone suppressants after puberty, and it's. And it limits them so much that they no longer have the biological advantage. Isn't it unfair to that person? By the way, this is like a theoretical human being. I mean, now, now we're basically saying, what if somebody is born with, with three heads, don't they have to have three helmets available to them? Or if not, it's a violation of, you know, equal access. Like, this is crazy at some point, but they can't allow the issue to be decided. They have to try to keep open this possibility of hope that gender and sex and all these things are not as clear to us now as they've always been.

[Clay Travis]

I would just point out it's pretty easy open and shut case to me. Are there any boys that are suing because girls have decided to identify as boys? Like, if gender, if gender were truly just this construct and there were no actual impact, wouldn't there be some girl out there who decided to identify as a boy that was showing up in boy sports and dominating? Of course it doesn't happen. They can't even make the team. Uh, that's a pretty good sign that gender may exist. Now, Buck, I want to read you some quotes. This is probably going to blow your mind when I tell you, unless you've already read it, in which case the exercise is not going to be as successful. The Supreme Court has the chance this week to save women's sports, allowing states to restore a level playing field for girls by excluding biological men and thereby correcting one of the worst excesses of America's cultural revolution. Uh, and let me just read you one more paragraph. Um, none of this will surprise anyone who watched Leah Thomas rocket from a middling Division 1 men's freestyler at the University of Pennsylvania to an NCAA women's championship. Those are the facts for anyone tempted to disbelieve their lying eyes. Separate sports divisions exist to mitigate biological gaps. It's impossible to construct a coherent case for unfettered trans inclusion that fits those facts without ultimately arguing for the abolishing of women's athletics entirely. Okay, where did that. Where am I reading from right now, Buck?

[Buck Sexton]

I don't know.

[Clay Travis]

The Washington Post. That is the Washington Post official editorial board newspaper opinion that came out yesterday.

[Buck Sexton]

You.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, I think the manufacturing delusion argument is a really interesting one. This, to me, is an example of where all of a sudden people said, you know what? We've tried to build a bridge too far, such that even the Washington Post, patron saint of left wing intellectual, political thought, so to speak, in the nation's capital, is now writing on their editorial page the exact arguments that you or I have been making basically on this show for years. That we've certainly been making an outkick for years when everybody was telling us that we were transphobes, bigots, all these other things. The perspective of the culture has shifted to such an extent that now the Washington Post shows up just before the Supreme Court rules and writes exactly what I just read for all of you.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, it also came across in the Supreme Court arguments that you'll notice no one is barring. If women want to compete on the men's teams, go for it.

[Clay Travis]

They can't make up.

[Buck Sexton]

Go for it.

[Clay Travis]

Yes, that's exactly.

[Buck Sexton]

No one has any. Why is it that no one has concern if gender doesn't matter? And it's all this other stuff, you know, and also this idea that testosterone and the hormonal differences between men and women do not have a clear biological effect. Do you know what? Guys who are running gear, as they say, which means they're using steroids, anabolic steroids. You know what? Their foundation, usually their foundation is taking very high exogenous doses of testosterone. Yeah, testosterone in high number at a high dosage is effectively an anabolic steroid. So it's a little bit like saying, clay, hey, Is everybody who takes an anabolic steroid really going to have an advantage in Sports? I mean, yeah, 99.99999% of them. Are everybody. Okay, We.

[Clay Travis]

We.

[Buck Sexton]

You could see the. You know, the data on that is incredibly clear. And yet they pretend that the male, female difference is not every bit as clear. In fact, on. On Bill Marshall. And Bill, to his credit, is good on this issue and has been when he had on that guy, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, right? Was Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[Clay Travis]

No, no, the. The foremost science thought.

[Buck Sexton]

One of the top sort of celebrated pop scientists. And if you want to hear him talk about the cosmos, you know, he knows about that stuff and it's nice, but he says, I don't know if there's a difference between men and women in sports. This is like saying we can't really know anything and therefore we have to pretend that we know nothing. Therefore there is no difference between men and women. And it's all just. And look, we saw what they do with this. It's not about being polite. It's not about being friendly because they're deeply impolite and unfriendly to people that don't want to play along with the delusion. And it is a delusion, which is why it's the title of the book. It is. It is crazy. It is delusional. They want to force you. They want to use the force of the law. They want. There was just a case recently, Clay, where some woman was in prison, I forget where it was. And was raped by a trans inmate. The state completely failed that woman. She should be in a woman's only prison. But there is a woman with a penis who sexually assaulted her in her cell. And this happens, and we've been saying this is going to happen for a long time on sports. It could not be more clear. But it just goes to show you, this is. It is religious belief for Ketanji Brown, Jackson, for Sotomayor. And they know that they can't win across the board on this. So their hope is to try to carve out now they're going to lose. This is. There's. I mean, in my mind, there's no way that this. But I do think it's going to go six three, Clay, because their objection has to be on the record to perpetuate this fantasy that there isn't a difference between men and women when it comes to sports or in general.

[Clay Travis]

Okay. So the question as we go to break to think about if they likely lose six, three. As you and I both believe, based on the way the questions went today, do Democrats use that as an excuse to stop arguing on this issue going forward because they recognize that they've lost this issue in the larger court of public opinion, notwithstanding what the Supreme Court itself does? Or do they double, triple, quadruple down on this take on this crazy take and argue that the Supreme Court illegitimately appointed by President Trump, as they often do when they don't like opinions and continue to fight going forward on this.

[Buck Sexton]

Issue, it's going to be the latter. They won't give it up. They won't give it up. Nope. They are true believers in this because to admit that they were wrong about this is to admit that you and me and all of you listening, we saw the obvious all along and they're the idiots. And they won't admit that. Just like it's like masks, Clay, it's Covid. It's the same thing all over again. No matter how wrong they are, they can't actually change their minds. Not because just of the arrogance involved that's a part of it, but because that means we were right. And that's unthinkable to them. The troglodyte Trumpers were right on gender. Can't be. It can't be so, Clay. It would rock their whole world. But we are right. Isn't that interesting? If you are somebody who hasn't put a portion of your savings or retirement account into gold or silver, let's work on changing that.

[Clay Travis]

Okay?

[Buck Sexton]

The long term thesis for gold and silver is very strong. Look at what gold has done in the 21st century and going back 25 years. Look what silver has done over the same period of time. Multiples, multiples of increase. And gold continues to rocket up over 60% last year. This isn't about day to day price though my friends. This is about a long term thesis. Is gold a precious metal that has been valuable for all of human civilization and silver? Are they going to be more valuable in the future with the money printing and the nonsense going on with central governments and instability globally? Yes, yes they will be. And this is why Birch Gold Group wants you to get some gold and silver until January 30th. If you are a first time gold buyer, Birch Gold's offering a rebate of up to $10,000 on qualifying purchases. If that gets your attention and it should claim eligibility and start the process. Just text My name Buck Do 989898 Birch Cold can help you roll an existing IRA or 401K into an IRA in gold and you're still eligible for a rebate of up to $10,000. Make right now your first time to buy gold and take advantage of a rebate of up to $10,000 when you buy by January 30th. To get started, text My Name Buck to 989898 Claim your eligibility today. Text Buck to 989898 Want to be.

[Clay Travis]

In the know when you're on the go the Team 47 podcast. Drop highlights from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. We definitely want to get to some of your calls and so let us up here 800-282-2882 emails and all the rest of it. Also want to tell you to please subscribe on our YouTube channel, YouTube.com clayandbuck and if you do, you can see that I went to my, my Cuban Americans here and I got a new do and Clay says I look very Miami right now.

[Clay Travis]

Very Miami and honestly, very youthful. I actually also said my teenage boys would be jealous, I think of the haircut that you have just gotten. You would be very popular, very popular in their high school right now. If you rolled in, you would definitely be the cool teacher with. It's not quite broccoli hair as the boys call it these days, but it is definitely.

[Buck Sexton]

It's like a Miami fade that I got. I just went in and just said make my hair shorter and this is what happens.

[Clay Travis]

Kid hair. I haven't gotten a haircut in a long time, so I do not have cool kid hair. But yes, you, you would 100% be very popular teenage.

[Buck Sexton]

But I'm a little, I'm a little sad right now because you have trimmed your Santa Claus beard and the white puffiness. You haven't. Oh, okay.

[Clay Travis]

No, it's just, it's, it's coming in. I have not shaved my beard since December 19th.

[Buck Sexton]

I think. I think you keep letting it go like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed style. You see his beard after he was in custody for a few years. Oh yeah, just let it roll.

[Clay Travis]

All right.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

BUCK SEXTON SHOW we thank all of you for hanging out with us. We are talking about a lot of different stories out there that continue to get much attention. Minneapolis, the Supreme Court decision coming now in the wake of the oral arguments that were heard in the trans sports related issue. And but Buck, you said as we were, I think it was last hour right before we had Senator Ted Cruz on, we were discussing the credit card debt idea and the in particular, President Trump tweeted that he was going to try to cap credit card interest rates at 10%. Right now I believe the interest rates have crept up often north of 20% is the current credit card rate. So I've got a couple of thoughts on this. To me, basically what we talk about when we talk about credit card interest rates is what is the rate that we will allow to happen. Right. Because we're basically capping them at 25% ish and saying that's as high as we will allow them to go.

[Buck Sexton]

I think they're capped at 36%.

[Clay Travis]

36%. Is that as high as it's allowed under traditional credit cards?

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, I think I have credit cards that are at like 29. So I mean it's definitely higher than just like 20. It's, it's upwards of 30%.

[Clay Travis]

It may partly be state determinant too. I will be honest with everybody out there. I am not an expert on credit card interest rates or what the rates are that are allowed. And I know they're different depending on where you might live or what your overall credit rate is. First of all, I don't know that the president has the authority to be able to do this legally. I know there's bills out there that would potentially cap this. Ted Cruz said, hey, here's my concern. He was just on with us last hour when you asked him this question. To what extent does that curtail the amount of interest that is available in the market? Because I think what the credit card companies would argue is the reason we have to have rates that high is because if we're going to extend credit to people that that may not pay us back, we have to have an ability to make sure that we make the best possible profit that we can to alleviate the risk that comes with making credit card credit available to everyone. Now you just said buck your credit card interest rate you think is 29% on your credit card. I don't even know what my credit card interest rate.

[Buck Sexton]

I think that's if I miss a payment.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Then they jacket, they skyrocket it up. If you miss one payment, they've changed some of this stuff. I mean, look, I'll just tell you this. I have, I was in my 30s and had a net worth in the hundreds of dollars at one point. Okay. So this is not like, oh, I always pay my, I had basically a paycheck to paycheck existence until like five years ago, maybe six years ago, something like that. So what I'm saying is I never carried a credit card balance that entire time. Never once did you just pay cash.

[Clay Travis]

Or you had a debit card.

[Buck Sexton]

I just paid it off every month. Every month I paid off my credit card.

[Clay Travis]

Okay. Yeah. Not that you didn't use credit cards. When you say you didn't have a balance, you mean you paid it off every month. You made sure that it was not.

[Buck Sexton]

I'm saying I never, I never ran up a debt on credit card companies when I had no money and when it would have been a lot of fun to go buy like a new jet ski, I did not do. Now I understand some people it's groceries, some people it's, I get all this. But what I'm pointing out is you, you really don't want to run up credit card debt and it should be something that people are far more educated on because the rates are super high and it is non dischargeable in bankruptcy, which is the other part of this. So I, I've been on both sides. I also think that some of the credit card stuff that they do, I actually got hit by this once when I was in my 20s. They would change the due dates.

[Clay Travis]

Oh yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Kind of arbitrarily. So I'm just going to be clear. The credit card companies have engaged in predatory behavior. That has happened. That has been a real thing in recent years. They have had to be, they have had to been told stop acting like a loan shark mobster, ok? Moving the, moving the due date around in the hopes that somebody's auto payment is, is then late and then they can hit you with the 30% APR. That's a scumbag, honestly fraudulent move. Like it's fraud to do this. And the credit card companies had to get hit, had to get slapped with that. So they're not the good guys. I'm, I'm not taking them the good guys. But what Ted Cruz says is also true. If people need access to credit, what are you going to do? Like you get into this moral hazard thing, like what, what do you do if somebody needs to have an emergency thousand dollars that they can go to on their credit card for whenever something comes up? What are you going to do? You got to force people to give them the money. You're going to force people, you're going to force credit cards to try to give a lower rate. By the way, it's just going to be, it's like price controls. They're going to squeeze at one end and then you're going to get squeezing at the other end. This is what ends up happening. The money has to come from somewhere.

[Clay Travis]

I would also point out banks will screw you at every opportunity that they can to. So a lot of people talk about, you know, unfair fees that are hitting them on credit cards. Banks hit you on unfair fees all the time too. My number one advice to the extent that you can, you can do it is and, and I think most, a lot of financial advisors out there would say this. You are way less likely to spend money if you use cash. Because in your brain, this is just the way we're all wired cash. You feel it in a way that you do not when it comes to paying with a credit card. And the reason why the credit card industry works is because people live beyond their means and they take advantage of you. You ever fly on an airplane, you ever notice how often they walk around trying to get you to sign up for four credit cards on an airplane? It's because the airlines now make as much money just about off their credit cards as they do actually off of the airline itself. It's one of the craziest things out there. If you're ever on a college campus, the reason why they're trying to give you away a sweatshirt to get you to sign up is because they know what the long term value of this is is going to create for them. Because the numbers are the numbers a little bit like a casino. Once they get you signed up, they know that you're going to be worth a decent amount to them going forward. Now I said it. I don't know that trump has the ability to do it. Well, what I will say is this in conjunction with Trump last week talking about trying to limit the number of homes that people could buy, meaning big companies buying up all the homes. They. This is Trump pivoting, because I think his team has recognized that the 2026 election is going to be decided on affordability, and people are angry over how much prices went up during Joe Biden. And so sometimes you put out policies that are populist in nature that don't necessarily have a chance of happening just to show people that you're listening to them and hearing their complaints.

[Buck Sexton]

That's exactly right. That's what this is, the Trump gambit. This is Trump saying something that's going to do a few things without getting into the details right now, because he's moving the focus and changing the pressure here. So you point out, Clay, people feel like credit card companies, and that's why I said what I said before. But I will tell you guys something. This is actually a personal little personal anecdote. This is true. When I was in the CIA, and I think I made $38,000 my first year in the CIA, something like that. And so I had no money. And my parent. I had no money set aside for me or anything like that. Okay? So I just started my job at the CIA. I moved because I couldn't afford the rent increase in the initial apartment, which was the cheapest studio apartment in this massive building. Living in D.C. i moved. And capital one, Clay, I had a zero balance, because I always had a zero balance. Capital One sent via snail mail to my old address, a $5 account closing charge. I had never, you know, was this in the fine print of my contract somewhere? Yeah, whatever. But I shut down the credit card when I moved because I was like, I never use this card. It was an emergency card that my parents set up for me when I was in college that I actually never used. One time it was like, use this if, you know, you break your leg, you're in the er.

[Clay Travis]

He was like, break the glass. Emergency card if you need money. And you.

[Buck Sexton]

And I realized I had $500 limit, which isn't a hell of an emergency, let's be honest. So I shut it down. They sent a $5 charge to shut it down. I found. I heard nothing about this. I got a call 18 months later from a collection agency saying I owed them like $300 now, and my credit was wrecked over $5. That the notification they sent was completely unsatisfactory. They could have emailed Me, they never emailed me. I mean there are a whole credit card companies act like scumbags sometimes is my point. That was a total, that was a total scumbag move. This is 20 years ago.

[Clay Travis]

And they will screw you on your credit rating, which is ultimately probably the number one most valuable financial asset that most of us have. And a lot of times you have like parking ticket on there or you've got a cancellation fee on there that they're taking you with.

[Buck Sexton]

This was the only missed payment of any kind like this I have ever had of any kind. I've always been very. Look, I'm going to be honest with you. He's a, he's a competitor on radio. I love the Dave Ramsey approach on this. I'm very, you know, take cash when you can. Do not carry a balance. The whole point is the discipline. It's supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be frustrating that you can't buy the Jet Ski right now. Okay, you save, you figure it out. You get there the right way. You don't go buy that, you know, that Firebird or that, I don't know, you know, Ford Mustang that goes vroom, vroom, vroom, super loud and pay like a 20% APR on the money. Like that's. You can't. These are bad decisions, ok? They're bad decisions. So at some point or at some level you want people to be disincentivized from doing some of these things. And a high APR does that. But I'm just saying, I also understand this. Why is it non dischargeable? But they would say if it wasn't non dischargeable that would have to then factor into the risk profile and you'd have the same problem of not having the higher rates. This is a complicated issue, but here on Trump Clay, due to your point, because I think it's brilliant. One, sorry, I just got fired up because I still remember opening, I still remember that call from the collection agency and I was just like, you scumbags.

[Clay Travis]

You know, I mean everybody has experienced that where it is completely unfair and they're trying to take advantage of you.

[Buck Sexton]

And I'm like, and I'm like, my credits ruined. The credit card company is getting like a 60x return on $5 for nothing. For literally nothing. For shutting down an account is absurd anyway. And yeah, I think I wouldn't have qualified for a Fannie Mae loan based on this one thing at that time. That's how bad it was because it had gone on for like a year. And once it goes on Once it goes beyond 90 days, you're screwed. My point is Trump understands this and he knows that he's putting heat on the credit card companies and he knows whether he has the right or rather the legal ability or not. Clay, he has the political ability right now to maybe get some concessions out of them, maybe get them to not do some of the grosser stuff they do, maybe move them in the right direction. So that's the Trump gambit as I see it.

[Clay Travis]

I would also point out we're basically making a policy decision on what we're allowing the credit card companies to set their rates at. We're saying, like you couldn't have a 75 interest rates on a credit card, right? We wouldn't allow it. So to some extent it is just a policy choice because I'm sure, look, credit card companies would take a 75% interest rate if they could, right? Yearly APR, they would take it as high as they possibly can. This is to where people say, okay, we're going to balance this. And Trump is saying to his credit, this is a one year thing, which also looks even more political, right, to be fair. Oh, the one year happens to correspond with the midterm when you'll be on the ballot basically for the last time of your political career. Again, it's political in nature. I think it's acknowledging affordability related issues. I'm not sure how impactful in terms of getting it to actually occur this will be. You guys can weigh in, by the way, 800-28228A2 and if you're trying to have more energy in your life, if you're going to be traveling a lot, if you're coming out of the holidays, you got kids, grandkids, you're trying to work more hours, you're trying to get more packed into a day. That's what chalk is designed to do. It's to help restore testosterone levels. Because once guys hit over 40 years old, our testosterone starts to naturally decline. And that is the overall engine of the male, male body basically is testosterone. How much would you like for your testosterone level to come back up towards the rate when it might have been in your 20s, your 30s, maybe even when you were a teenager. Chalk's male vitality stack will help to make that happen. Chalk, spelled C H O Q creates all natural supplements that help American men and women maximize energy every single day. 2026 make it your goal to make yourself more energy efficient in [e-mail] choq.com Unlock the New Year's Special this month only when you subscribe with the promo code Clay, you get a free 99 bag of chalk lit powder with your first delivery that choq.com my name clay chalk.com news you can count on and some laughs too.

[Buck Sexton]

Clay Travis at Buck Sexton.

[Clay Travis]

Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck. Let's, let's get into some of this. The credit card thing. It's one of these, Clay. It's a little bit like the minimum wage conversation. It sounds at first like it's, oh, it's like technical and financial. No, people really feel this one people the same way people really feel gas prices when they're high. When you get people fired up about credit card companies, especially because like I said, I'm familiar with this. It happened to me. And I know credit card companies have had to be slapped down because they're doing scumbag stuff. That's just the truth. They have. You can go back and look at this. They've had to pay different settlements and things. So they're not like the good guys, but we also kind of need them. Right? So that's the other part of this BB podcast listener Hank in Annapolis. Play BB here.

[Hank (Caller)]

Hank here in Annapolis. Just responding to the credit card issue. It sounds great. 10% interest rate for one year. But then people, a lot of people rack up huge balances and then the credit cards go back up to 20 and 21%. Then what? So I think you better be careful what you wish for on this one. Not good.

[Clay Travis]

That's actually a really good point because many people have multi year credit card balances, so it comes down to 10%. Maybe you take on more because you're like, it's only 10%. And then you.

[Buck Sexton]

That was part of the, that was part of the mortgage meltdown with, with mortgages where people had a resetting variable.

[Clay Travis]

Apr, variable interest rate mortgage, which is.

[Buck Sexton]

So like at first your mortgage rate it was like 2% and then a few years in it went to 10. Yes, well, guess what? It's really easy to pay the 2%, but the 10 starts to bite, doesn't it? Sheila Memphis wants to talk about this. Yep, go for it.

[Sheila (Caller)]

Hi guys. I sat down with my 10 year old grandson last summer because he was asking for something and he goes, well, you can just put it on your credit card. And I said, okay. I said, is this something you really want? A won't need, or is this something you just want? Why would I want it. I'm like, okay, let's. Let's go through this exercise. And I said, hey, you've got a $300 credit card, and you buy something for $300 and your payment comes in, and you only owe $35 for your minimum payment. I said, now how much do you owe to the credit card company? And he said, well, that's easy, $265. I said, no, because we're going to add interest now on your $265. So now you owe us $310. Well, that's not fair. And I'm like, you're getting it, buddy.

[Buck Sexton]

Yep. Well done.

[Clay Travis]

I'm glad down, because this is one of the things, Buck, that I think should be standard in every school.

[Buck Sexton]

Financial literacy required. Finance should be required. They don't teach it because they want you to be debt slaves. This is true. It's not conspiracy. I'm sorry. Everyone should learn about credit cards. Compound interest. Everyone should learn about mortgages. And you should.

[Clay Travis]

Mortgages.

[Buck Sexton]

You should learn about this in the, like, the ninth grade. And yeah, maybe it's complicated for some people, but they should at least learn what they can from it. Everybody should learn about this stuff because otherwise you're paying for that jet Ski for the next 50 years. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.