Hour 2 - Covenant School Report

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Hour 2: Covenant School Report

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: Premiere Networks
• Episode: Hour 2 - Covenant School Report
• Release Date: April 2, 2025

Description: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the most pressing news stories, politics, and current events with a blend of intelligence and humor. In this episode, they navigate through significant political developments, analyze the motivations behind the Covenant School shooting, and discuss a controversial incident involving parental responsibility and law enforcement.

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1. Political Landscape: Florida Elections and Wisconsin Supreme Court

Timestamp: 00:29 – 03:46

Clay Travis kicks off the episode by addressing the recent political shifts in Florida and Wisconsin:

• Florida Special Elections: Both Florida 6 and Florida 1 saw Republican victories by approximately 15 points each. Travis commends voter turnout and acknowledges the significance of these wins.

  "Appreciate everybody who got out and voted there." [00:29]

• Wisconsin Supreme Court Race: Despite the Republican loss in the Wisconsin judicial race, Travis highlights that Democrats now control the Supreme Court, which may influence future redistricting efforts. He emphasizes a positive outcome where Wisconsin voters overwhelmingly support the implementation of photo ID requirements for voting—a measure Travis views as common sense.

  "Overwhelmingly, Wisconsin voters said you should have to show a photo ID to vote, which seems like basic common sense to me." [02:10]

Travis also notes the historical closeness of Wisconsin as a battleground state, referencing its tight races in the 2016 and 2020 Senate elections, and expresses hope for more reliable elections moving forward.

2. Analyzing the Covenant School Shooting

Timestamp: 03:46 – 39:50

The core of the episode revolves around the Covenant School shooting in Nashville, Tennessee. Clay and Buck provide a thorough analysis based on the newly released 48-page report by Metro Nashville Police.

A. Shooter's Motivations and Target Selection

Travis reads excerpts from the report detailing the shooter’s rationale:

• Targeting a Christian School: The shooter chose the Covenant School specifically because of its Christian affiliation, believing that “students were too young to effectively fight back or flee” and that the faith of those present would render them “meek and afraid.” This perception gave her confidence in executing the attack.

  "She believed the Christian faith of those within would make them meek and afraid, which further assuaged her self doubts." [04:15]

• Desire for Notoriety: The shooter initially planned the attack for April 13, 2021, the anniversary of the Columbine massacre, aiming to gain international attention. She meticulously evaluated potential targets based on factors like geographic isolation and the likelihood of media coverage.

  "She considered offenders who killed a low number of people to be amateurs who weren't worthy of her respect." [12:35]

B. Political and Social Implications

Maria Konnikova and Buck Sexton delve into the intersection of the shooter's transgender identity and her political motivations:

• Left-Wing Ideology: The shooter’s actions were influenced by left-wing ideology, particularly the narrative around trans issues. Travis refers to her as a “trans left-wing terrorist,” highlighting her intent to shape the narrative post-attack.

  "She is a trans left wing terrorist who intentionally targeted Christian kids because she thought she would think it would be a better narrative." [07:40]

• Systemic Failures: The hosts critique the delay in releasing information, suggesting political motivations hindered timely public awareness. They argue for accountability in how the situation was handled, emphasizing the importance of transparency for public safety.

  "Holding it this long was done not for public safety, not for privacy, but for politics." [09:00]

C. Protective Measures and Gun Control Debate

The discussion transitions into the effectiveness of armed security in schools:

• Armed Resource Officers: Konnikova advocates for the presence of armed officers in schools as a deterrent against such attacks, countering the argument against gun bans by asserting that “bad guys don’t care that it’s a gun-free zone.”

  "Gun free zones are idiotic. It is absurd. The bad guys don't care that it's a gun free zone." [11:11]

• Personal Responsibility: Both hosts emphasize personal responsibility in safeguarding schools, suggesting that measures like concealed carry for willing teachers could enhance security.

  "The idea that this should be banned from schools and that you should even be like face imprisonment if you're a lawful gun owner... is absurd." [11:12]

D. Heroism Amid Tragedy

Travis and Konnikova commend the actions of law enforcement officers who intervened during the shooting:

• Law Enforcement Valor: They praise the officers for their bravery, contrasting their swift response with previous incidents like the Uvalde massacre.

  "They didn't hesitate. They didn't pull a Uvalde. They realized there were lives at risk and they went in there and they eliminated the threat and they took out the demon." [13:03]

3. McDonald's Incident: Parental Responsibility vs. Law Enforcement

Timestamp: 22:31 – 36:50

The latter part of the episode shifts focus to a controversial incident in Augusta, Georgia, where a 24-year-old father, Chris Lewis, was arrested for leaving his three children—aged 10, 6, and 1—to attend a job interview.

A. Case Details and Public Reaction

Travis and Konnikova dissect the circumstances and public outcry surrounding the arrest:

• Lack of Sitter: Lewis left his children at a McDonald's playground nearby his job interview location. Upon returning, he was arrested for child endangerment, sparking debates about parental responsibility and law enforcement overreach.

  "He went to go to the interview and when he came back, somebody had called the police on the fact that these three kids were in the playground. And since this, he was arrested." [22:45]

• Sympathy and Criticism: The hosts express sympathy for Lewis, questioning whether the arrest was warranted given the short duration and the challenges of finding immediate childcare.

  "I don't think the guy should have been arrested. I certainly, I think they're going to dismiss the charges." [24:35]

B. Societal Standards and Legal Implications

The discussion highlights varying societal and legal standards regarding the age at which children can be left unattended:

• Age Considerations: They debate the appropriateness of leaving children of different ages alone, particularly focusing on the youngest child, the 1-year-old, whose needs are more demanding.

  "The 1 year old is really, really young." [25:22]

• Intent and Circumstances: Travis emphasizes the importance of intent, suggesting that Lewis was attempting to secure employment to support his family, and that such intent should mitigate legal repercussions.

  "Intent matters here. You're trying to do something to help your family be better off than they otherwise would." [27:13]

• Public Safety vs. Compassion: While acknowledging the necessity of laws to protect children, the hosts also critique the rigidity of law enforcement in applying these laws without considering individual circumstances.

  "What's the age at which you're allowed to leave a kid in public alone and not get arrested?" [36:50]

C. Community and Legal Support

The hosts encourage community support for Lewis, suggesting that with more information, the public can better understand the nuances of the case and advocate for fair treatment.

"He's got a GoFundMe that's kicking up." [28:47]

4. Concluding Thoughts and Audience Engagement

Timestamp: 40:02 – End

As the episode wraps up, Travis and Konnikova acknowledge the heated responses from listeners regarding both the Covenant School shooting and the McDonald's incident. They invite further audience participation, encouraging listeners to share their perspectives and experiences related to the discussed topics.

"We got every line lit, tons of VIP emails coming in, so we'll take some of your calls." [40:17]

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Notable Quotes:

• "Overwhelmingly, Wisconsin voters said you should have to show a photo ID to vote, which seems like basic common sense to me." – Clay Travis [02:10]

• "Gun free zones are idiotic. It is absurd. The bad guys don't care that it's a gun free zone." – Maria Konnikova [11:12]

• "They didn’t hesitate. They didn’t pull a Uvalde. They realized there were lives at risk and they went in there and they eliminated the threat and they took out the demon." – Maria Konnikova [13:03]

• "Intent matters here. You're trying to do something to help your family be better off than they otherwise would." – Clay Travis [27:13]

Conclusion: In this episode, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton provide a comprehensive analysis of significant political outcomes and delve deep into societal issues highlighted by tragic events and controversial legal actions. Their discussions emphasize the importance of understanding underlying motivations, the impact of political ideologies on personal actions, and the delicate balance between enforcing laws and considering individual circumstances.

Transcript

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in our number two Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We're rolling through the Wednesday edition of the program. Bunch of news stories out there. We talked about the Florida special elections, Florida 6, Florida 1. Both Republican wins by around 15 points. Appreciate everybody who got out and voted there. Wisconsin judge lost. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court will be in the control of Democrats. That could have consequences, unfortunately, when it comes to redistricting potentially costing Republicans a couple of different seats depending on how things play out there. I will say very positive result which is getting some attention, probably deserves more. Overwhelmingly, Wisconsin voters said you should have to show a photo ID to vote, which seems like basic common sense to me, but has become an opposition issue of paramount importance to the Democrat Party. But actually vast majorities of voters believe that that should be a law, that we should make sure that those who are voting are who they say they are. And it's a bare minimum to require somebody to show up and produce a license or a passport or some form of identification in order to cast your ballot. And overwhelming numbers of Wisconsin voters believe that. In fact, Ryan Gardusky, I saw our data analyst guru as part of the Clay and Buck podcast network, said around 200,000 Wisconsin voters voted both for there to be a voter ID requirement and for the left wing judicial nominee. So I think what that reflects is that even Democrats believe that that amendment should be law. And so hopefully in the years ahead as Wisconsin has become ultimate battleground state, it was the closest of all the states in the 2024 election. It was very close in 2016, 2020 Senate races coming down to thousands of votes in one direction or the other, hopefully that will allow Wisconsin elections going forward to be more reliable than they otherwise would be. TRUMP 4:00 Eastern, scheduled to announce his tariff decision. I will say if you use the stock market as any sort of proxy stock market actually having a good day, suggesting perhaps that there is not going to be as much of an economic impact as some investors had feared. Stock market S&P 500 up about a percent today, which is a not inconsequential number. And for those of you out there who pay attention to this on a regular basis, the stock market is roughly the same place that it was on Election Day. So about six months it has come down certainly from where it was in February, but it's about the same place it was six months ago. Now other news, there has been a release Buck and I was reading it during the last commercial break the Covenant School shooting. This is the transgender shooter in town.

[Maria Konnikova]

The trans terrorist in Tennessee, my hometown.

[Clay Travis]

Of Nashville, who shot up a Christian school. There is finally a report out about the motivations of that shooter and I want to read some of these for you because I do think it's important for everybody out there to be aware of what exactly took place. First of all, this shooter chose this location particularly because of the Christian school. And I'm reading from the official report released by Metro Nashville Police. Even though she was concerned the layout of the school would give students and faculty more places to hide and more time to flee, she was emboldened by the idea students were too young to effectively fight back or flee far. She believed this is a direct quote from the report that was just released in the last few minutes. She believed the Christian faith of those within would make them meek and afraid, which further assuaged her self doubts. The age of the children and the school being considered a Christian school made her recognize the instant notoriety the attack would bring. This is also particularly difficult. Again, I'm reading from the report she initially planned to attack another school in April of 2021. The April 13th of 2021, overwhelmingly, and I'm trying to avoid using this this woman's name because the report says that she was focused on trying to have international notoriety. And she initially chose April 13, 2021 as her attack date because it was the exact same day as the Columbine attack in Colorado, April 13th of 1999. She considered it a fitting tribute to the memory of those two killers. She then decided to postpone her attack to get additional training on her firearm to ensure she would be proficient with it to kill as many people as possible. I mean, this is an awful, awful human being. This is from the report.

[Maria Konnikova]

This is a demon.

[Clay Travis]

On April 8, 2021, she canceled the attack on that school, changed her target to Covenant, this Christian school. She then listed the pros and cons for each target in her notebooks, focusing on the physical structure, security of each location, agent, backgrounds, and the public reaction she would receive based on this analysis. Listen to how chilling this is. She chose the Covenant school as the better target for three reasons. One, Covenant was more geographically isolated than this other middle school, which she felt would give her more time to kill. Covenant was a private Christian school. She believed she would receive more notoriety for killing Christians due to the student body at Creswell Middle School being predominantly black. She was afraid she would be seen as racist, which would affect how much control she had over the narrative after her death and allow others to state her motive beyond the attack. I mean, Buck, this is pure evil. She is a trans left wing terrorist who intentionally targeted Christian kids because she thought it would be a better narrative.

[Maria Konnikova]

But didn't she also not go after a school because she was concerned that she would be viewed as racist?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, that's exactly what it says right in the report. Yeah, like she is concerned that she would be racist.

[Maria Konnikova]

Steeped in left wing thinking even when she was, she was plotting the mass murder of defenseless children. She's like, well, I'm going to kill a bunch of kids, but I want them to be kids who are Christian. And I. And I don't want anyone to think that I'm racist though. Yes, think about that, everybody. She is or was, thankfully, exactly what we knew she was right away. And they hid this from us for months and months and months. Exactly why we thought, because the system, even in a state like Tennessee, the system does not want us to start to think about. Hold on a second. Is there, is there anything here with her being trans and psychiatric dysfunction and violence and, you know, no one's allowed to even consider that at this time. When she did this shooting, there was a whole theory on the left that was being expanded on in the media that there was a genocide and that was the term that they would use, a genocide of trans people that the Christian right was perpetrating and that states were engaged in this horrible behavior of stopping the gender mutilation, the genital mutilation of children because of the trans agenda. And she, she chose the targets based upon her left wing ideology. She did this at a time when the Democrat mainstream, the mainstream Democrat party was arguing in favor of trans in kids. And if you tried to stop this, if you're a parent, maybe the kid should be taken from you by the state. And that there was violence against trans people as some kind of national epidemic. All lies, all nonsense, I might add. So everything that we thought was true about this monster, now it comes out it was true. And all that stuff about how, oh, we can't know and yeah, we can know. We should have known this right away. They held it for political reasons. We knew it the whole time. They. And there should be some accountability for the politics that were played here because the public had a right to know. And holding it this long was done not for public safety, not for privacy, but for politics.

[Clay Travis]

I'm reading and continuing to read. This is a 48 page report that has just been released by the Metro Nashville police. I am going to, you know, continue. I'm going to share this. So if you want to go read it yourself again. This individual wanted to be famous. So I think trying not to use names, trying not to make her famous because that's the reason that she did this. They say buck 16 notebooks were seized. Two found within her vehicle after her death, the other 14 inside the bedroom in her residence. All sorts of details about the planning of this particular attack.

[Maria Konnikova]

And she went to a school without an armed resource officer. Armed security. There were schools with armed security. The school she went to didn't have armed security. Another thing, I might add, that we're not somehow allowed to talk about that she specifically goes, oh, this school is further from police help. There's no armed officer at the school. She did target scouting of these locations beforehand.

[Clay Travis]

That's right.

[Maria Konnikova]

And you know, the people that are saying, oh, but we're going to ban guns, they're idiots. They're not going to stop anything. That's not going to help. But what might have helped and what could help is having a armed resource officer on campus, having secure, having concealed carry for teachers who want to do so, you know, who want to be able to protect their campus and their, you know, people that are, that are, look, I mean, I conceal carry. People that conceal carry, they're walking around in states where it's legal. They're walking around the mall keeping you safe, whether you know it or not. They're walking around, you know, crowded areas keeping you safe, whether you know it or not. The idea that this should be banned from schools and that you should even be like face imprisonment if you're a lawful gun owner and even leave the gun in your trunk of a, of a. Because schools are gun free zones. Gun free zones are idiotic. It is absurd. The bad guys don't care that it's a gun free zone. And this again goes to show, Clay, it's just isn't the frustration here is they know this. It's hard to get as much attention for now that we have the facts and can really discuss this, they don't. You know, the left that wanted to, you know, oh, this is about, don't demonize the trans community, or this is about gun control or all the things that they want to say, they said. And now that we can actually present the facts. Story's old. A lot of people have, you know, the public consciousness, obviously not the families, the tragic tragedies of what happened here. But for a lot of the country's attention right now, it's not on this issue.

[Clay Travis]

Totally. And I'm going to keep reading this during the break because I think some of these details continue. Uh, she rated other mass killers based on the number of people they killed in her documents, what targets selected, level of notoriety. She considered offenders who killed a low number of people to be amateurs who weren't worthy of her respect. Uh, I mean, this is an evil, evil person. I mean, just. I'm going to continue to read this.

[Maria Konnikova]

It's as demonic as it gets. Choosing to murder helpless children because they're helpless and because they're Christian, because their families might have some connection to God. I don't know what could be more demonic than this. Just God bless that officer who. And both those officers who showed us how it's done, who, who stopped the threat, who ran into that building. We all saw it on video. They didn't hesitate. They didn't pull a Uvalde. They realized there were lives at risk and they went in there and they eliminated the threat and they took out the demon. And they deserve so much credit for that. And I know so many of you in law enforcement across the country, you would do exactly the same thing. And it's good that we, we see that, you know, heroes can, can arise in the midst of just the most depraved acts of evil, which is exactly what this trans terrorist did. All right, let's talk about our sponsor here for a moment. Switching gears. Rapid Radios. They make incredible walkie talkies, the kind you can use to connect to anyone nationwide who has a rapid radio. They've innovated those old school walkie talkies that we grew up with, with new technology to make them even better than ever before. The 2025 version by Rapid Radios empowers you to talk to anyone. Because these devices have a nationwide LTE network they connect to. There aren't any monthly fees, no contracts assigned, just a small annual fee that keeps your device current and up to speed. We've used rapid radios. They're practical, they're fun. They're they come in very handy when there's severe disruptions caused by weather. This is a fun tool to have around the house day to day speaking to elderly relatives. Having with your kids also should be part of your preparation plan because when stuff hits the fan and you want to be able to talk to family member family members a mile or hundreds of miles down the road, Rapid Radios is there for you. They were there for my family. Go to rapidradios.com you'll get up to 60% off. Free UPS shipping from Michigan plus a free protection bag. Add code radio and get an extra 5% off. That's rapid radios.com up to 60% off there. Plus when you add code radio you'll get an extra 5% off.

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[Maria Konnikova]

All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck. You know, we were talking in the first hour quite a bit about the Wisconsin Supreme Court race. Susan Crawford beat Brad Schimmel 55% of the vote to 45% of the vote. We're getting a bunch of talkbacks on it and, and also email. So why don't you address some of those. Where is the talkback guys where he's saying we are whitewashing angry at us. He's upset. He's a little upset. Wants us to be a little more hard on the Republicans here. So I think we should address that. I think that's a fair BB BB thank you. Clay and Buck. You guys are really whitewashing the Wisconsin results. Republicans were caught flat footed. Where was their ground game? How come didn't get out the vote? This was totally unacceptable and it was not necessary. Okay, so just so everyone's clear, the we obviously were disappointed by this. And it's 10. It was 10 points. Brad Schimmel got 1,063,000 votes. Susan Crawford got 1.3 million. So 200 and give her about 240,000 more votes than Brad Schimmel. Schimmel's 1.06 million votes is higher than any Democrat vote total in the history of the Wisconsin Supreme Court, according to Seth Keshel here on a political analyst who follows this up on X. I'm going to check that number. But I can tell you this. Yeah, no, Republicans didn't win this one. Democrats had a better ground game. There are ballot drop boxes. Democrats were very hyped up on this. Wisconsin was the tightest state for Trump in the last election. So, yeah, this was going to be uphill. I also, you know, I'm a big Elon fan in general. I don't know if Elon was helpful in Wisconsin specifically. I'm not sure how that plays among Wisconsinites. That he became very sort of front and center in this Clay.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, look, also, I mean, the turnout, this is what I think you have to focus on to a large extent. What did you say? She got 1.3 million votes and he got roughly one ye. So Trump got right at 1.7 million votes. Kamala Harris got 1.668 million votes. So you're talking about roughly a million more people voted in the 2024 presidential election than voted in this Wisconsin election. So it wasn't just Democrats and it wasn't just Republicans not showing up. I mean, Trump got 700,000 nearly more votes than this Wisconsin, this Wisconsin judge did. And the, and the winning judge, the Democrat got nearly 400,000 fewer votes than Kamala did. So look, is it frustrating? Yes. Have I come to expect, and should Republicans come to expect on some level that Democrats are better organizing, getting out their base in special elections? Yes. This is why I think Elise Stefanik was pulled in New York because they knew that Democrats performed better here. Speaking of performing better, I want you guys to all perform better. Have some fun with prize picks. Right now. I'm going to be out tomorrow playing the live golf event. I am going to have a pro crushing the ball next to me. You can play along with golf. You can play along with baseball. You can play, play along with basketball, whatever sport you like. Certainly when football comes back this fall, you can get hooked up right now at prize picks. You can play in California, you can play in Texas, you can play in Georgia. If you're feeling left out, all you need to do is go to prizepix.com use my name Clay. That's Clay to get hooked up and get $50 when you play $5 all over the country. 13 million playing prizepix.com code clay Sign up today. Welcome back in Clay. Travis Buck Sexton show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We're ro through the Wednesday edition of the program. And Buck, there's a major viral controversy out there and it has turned into a really sort of cultural flashpoint. You have the facts I think in front of you right now. But there was a dad who was trying to get to a job interview and he had three young kids and he took them to McDonald's. The interview was close to the McDonald's. The kids are 10 years old, 4 years old and 1 year old.

[Maria Konnikova]

10, 6 and 1.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, 10, 6 and 1. And he left them at the McDonald's to do the interview. Where did this take place?

[Maria Konnikova]

So this was in Augusta, Georgia and it was one of those McDonald's that has the attached playground.

[Clay Travis]

Right.

[Maria Konnikova]

And so he, and it was right next to where the job interview is. This guy's 24 years old, Chris Lewis, he's a father, he's a black guy. Augusta, Georgia, 10 year old, 6 year old, 1 year old children. He went to go to the interview and when he came back, somebody had called the police on the fact that these three kids were in the playground. And since this and he was arrested, okay, they arrested him. They didn't just sort of give him a warning, they arrested him. And now this has gotten a lot of attention because people are saying, hold on a second. You know, he doesn't have money for a babysitter. His family situation is difficult. He's trying to get a job to do things the right way, to put money, you know, in the bank account, food on the table for the kids and himself. And you're going to arrest this guy and give him a record over this. A lot of people are saying, you know, 10, 10 year. If you go to, if you just throw this out there, I haven't done this. But my, my little brother went for a visit to. There's like 8 year olds riding the subway alone in Tokyo. Oh, okay. Like, I mean this and like all, not just Tokyo, like all over Japan there are cultures where 8, 9, 10 year olds move about freely. And I think it actually says a lot more that we're all so have to be so freaked out in this country that a 10 year old is going to be kidnapped in public. You know, it says a lot more about how we need to work on public safety here. But. Okay, what, what do you think? I, I gotta say, I find myself in the, you know, I think this is, I don't think the guy should have been arrested. I think the cops probably should. Hey man, like you know, keep it, you know, keep a closer eye on your kids, you know, you know, bad things can happen. I don't think he should have been arrested. I certainly, I think they're, the judge is going to dismiss the Charges. A lot of big name celebrities have gotten involved in this. What do you think? I mean basically, okay, a 10 year old maybe that's too. Is a 12 year old too young?

[Clay Travis]

Okay, so I've got, I've got three kids that would have been at some point in time roughly akin to these ages. Right. At one point I had a 10 year old, 6 year old and a 2 year old or some, something like that. So I had three boys around these ages. I need more info. How long were they at the McDonald's? Right. That factors in to me on some level. The one, and I think most parents are going to flag this. A one year old is really, really young. So is it like a 1 year old meaning it's a 12 month old or is it like a 1 year old and it's a 22 month old? The reason why I bring up the 1 year old is 1 year olds need diapers changed. They. Is the 10 year old changing the diaper? Like how long was the dad there with the. Leaving the kids?

[Maria Konnikova]

I'm just going to go out on a. I don't think he was, I'm just guessing. I don't think he was going for like three hours of interviews at McKinsey or something. Like he probably would sit down with a guy, talk to him for 15 or 20 minutes.

[Clay Travis]

That's the question.

[Maria Konnikova]

You know what I mean?

[Clay Travis]

I would not.

[Maria Konnikova]

Standard. Again, not casting any aspersions, but I think it's probably a pretty standard job interview. You know, I don't think they were asking him to do multi variable calculus.

[Clay Travis]

The 10 year old in general, every other, every parent out there is going to understand this too. There's a wide range of 10 year olds when it comes to their responsibility. Like some 10 year olds are, I mean that's fifth grade. Some can be. I've got a 10 year old right now, fourth grade. Again, you don't know exactly when they're turning. Are they old? About to be 11 now.

[Maria Konnikova]

You know what if for example, if he had said, just throwing this out there, if he had said to one of the employees at McDonald's hey can you keep, can you keep an eye on my kids? I'll be back in 20 minutes. I've just got to run down the street for a job interview. Can you keep an eye on them? Everybody cool with that?

[Clay Travis]

Everybody that would actually draw more attention to you not being there?

[Maria Konnikova]

Well, but, but you know, I'm just. So what, what are the.

[Clay Travis]

What are so I want to know. So first of all, I don't think the guy should be arrested. But again, I want to know more info because as more info comes out, sometimes the cops look more reasonable. What if the kids were there for two hours? What if, what if the one year old was crying and the 10 year old couldn't get it to stop and eventually they had to say like, what's going on here?

[Maria Konnikova]

According to the Augusta Press, it was a short time and he came back immediately. Now what is a short time? I mean, a short time is not two hours. I think, you know, less than an hour is a short time in my mind for this kind of a thing. So maybe the kids are there. Let's assume they're there. I don't.

[Clay Travis]

He's trying to do the. The point is, I think intent matters. He's trying to take care of his family. You don't know what might have happened with the babysitter. Did somebody get sick? Did grandma not be able to help out?

[Maria Konnikova]

Like, it's not like, you know, he left the kids so he could go to a strip club in the middle of the day or something. It's also. Right. But I'm just saying, you know, the public sympathy for someone trying to show up for an interview, trying to get a job, trying to earn money the right way is, is substantial here.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, I think I would not have. Again, I always want to give the cops benefit the doubt because so many of these stories go viral and then more details come out and you're like, oh, it was two hours and oh, it was a baby and the baby was crying and people were concerned about, I think the 10 and the 6 year old, it wouldn't have been noticed because I think the 10 and the 6 year old, the 1 year old there, that's the 1 year old that throws the.

[Maria Konnikova]

I think that's very, I mean, 10.

[Clay Travis]

And 6 year olds can go to the bathroom on their own. They can play inside of a play area on their own. A lot of 10 year olds aren't responsible enough to watch a one year old again. It could be a one year old that's almost two and the one year olds playing in the, in the area itself too. But I'm sympathetic to the dad because. Or the mom.

[Maria Konnikova]

I would also just say keep in mind because it's at a McDonald's with the attached playground.

[Clay Travis]

That's right.

[Maria Konnikova]

There are not only just people, but there are adults who work there who are, you know, you would assume the 10 again. Look, it's clearly not a perfect situation. It was not the right move. But Is it a arrestable, you get a criminal record move is really where people have said, hold the, hold on a second.

[Clay Travis]

No, I don't think it's an arrestable move, and I think it's a warning. And again, I want to know more details. I would love to hear from the guy. Has he done an interview yet? Like, this is something that I think would be a.

[Maria Konnikova]

He's got a, he's got a GoFundMe that's kicking up.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, well, I like the GoFundMe, but we have a huge audience in Augusta. I think we have nearly the number one radio show in Augusta, Georgia. Masters are coming up soon. I bet there's people who own businesses that would be interested in hiring this guy if, again, he's got a, the willingness to try to put his family first. So, yeah, that's the point.

[Maria Konnikova]

I think you said the word intent, and I think that that needs to be always such in most statutes. It is not always, but I think it should always at least be taken into account before you're going to charge somebody and give somebody possibly a criminal record. People trying to do the right thing, absent recklessness or, you know, some very specific set of circumstances, should certainly be always taken as a mitigating factor. Like, I wasn't trying to do anything wrong. I was actually trying to do a good thing and had an error of judgment, you know, and look, judges do take this into. I don't think this guy is going to end up getting a criminal record.

[Clay Travis]

I think also, again, it's also the case every single parent has had this happen where you try to do everything right and you've got a babysitter and you've got somebody to watch your kid, and it doesn't happen. Every single parent listening to me right now has had grandma or an aunt or a babysitter scheduled. And then at the last possible moment, you get a call, babysitter sick, babysitter just isn't that reliable, doesn't show up. And this guy, if he had the interview again, I would love to hear the full story because I think we could get this guy hired in Augusta, Georgia, just based on our Augusta, Georgia listenership. If the story is as it has been reported and he's trying to bust his ass to help take care of three young kids and he knows he has to get this job, what other options do you have? He it's hot, right? You don't want to leave the kids in the car because God forbid, that's way more dangerous.

[Maria Konnikova]

Clear safety issue as a whole Set. That would be child endangerment. No question.

[Clay Travis]

Now you could show up at the interview with the kids and be like, hey, this is why I need the job so bad. But again, like he probably doesn't want to look like desperate or unreliable that you need to bring. Bringing your kids to a job interview.

[Maria Konnikova]

What is the, what is the age at which you're free and clear to let a child stay, you know, in a state either. Well, I think home is probably different than in a public.

[Clay Travis]

Totally different. Right. That is true.

[Maria Konnikova]

So, but what would be the age at which we would all say, oh, it's fine that you let your kids stay alone at McDonald's while you went down the block for an hour. Is it, is it 13 an hour, everybody?

[Clay Travis]

An hour is a long time. The 10 and the 6 year old, I think a lot of parents would say McDonald's playground. If suddenly you had to run next door for 20 minutes, you wouldn't want to do it. Dad, by the way, way more likely to do it than mom. Let's be honest. Like dad. Dads have a little bit higher risk tolerance for kids than mom does. But I think a lot of dads, 10 and 6, it's the one that I come back to.

[Maria Konnikova]

Yeah, the one is that one year.

[Clay Travis]

Old is like, I mean you're in a, you're basically in a carrying case if you're a young one year old. If you're one and a half.

[Maria Konnikova]

I mean when me, the one year old was in a stroller basically in the shade. Again, we don't know all the details of situation. One year on the stroller, they're in the playground. You know, I, if I were him, I would have said, hey, can you keep an. I get. Well, I would have tried not to do this whole thing obviously, but in a worse, worst case basis, like, oh my God, my house is burning down, I need to run down the street. I think I would have told somebody, McDonald's, hey, could you just do me a solid and keep an eye on my kids, you know, because you can see them from.

[Clay Travis]

Well, I think again, I would love to talk to this guy to find out the details. Presumably another parent is the one who raised the issue. Was their kids, were the kids misbehaving inside of the play area?

[Maria Konnikova]

Details matter a lot.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Maria Konnikova]

You know, so for some reason did the kids look like they were in distress? Were they all. Was one of them, were they crying and they felt like they were abandoned? Again, we don't know everything.

[Clay Travis]

Did one of, one of the parents there Say, where's your dad or your mom? And they're like, oh, he left us.

[Maria Konnikova]

But what is the age as a parent where you are in America now, where you are? I mean, I bet we could have people call in who are like, I was, you know, 11 and like driving a pickup truck down the road and, you know, we're in a rural area and like, you know, I know that would have been 40 or 50 years ago maybe, but I think things have changed.

[Clay Travis]

I think the standards are a lot different even than when we were kids. I mean, I rode the school bus home in fifth grade, got out, walked home. Nobody else was in the house.

[Maria Konnikova]

What are you, like 12?

[Clay Travis]

11. 11, yeah. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Is this kid fifth grade?

[Nate Silver]

Fourth.

[Clay Travis]

I've got a fourth grader now.

[Maria Konnikova]

Yes, I, I think it's. I think a 13. I think if someone says, oh, you know, can your 13 year old be alone in public for an hour without parental supervision under certain circumstances, I think most people would say, oh, 13 is 100% right.

[Clay Travis]

Like 13 year old go to the mall and walk. But so I think, I think the 10 year old is right on that level because 10 year old can be fifth grade. 10 year old can be fourth grade. Like you are reliable. Also, does a kid have a phone, you know, some ability to be contacted. And again, how long were they actually left there? Did they buy food? Like, I think that factors in too, because if you own McDonald's and you just drop your kids off and you don't buy any food, don't buy any drink, I think people would say, you know, like, that's different too.

[Maria Konnikova]

I'd be curious for any of. If you're a parent and you have a. We. We want. If you have a strong take on this one way or the other. Yeah, he should have been arrested. You can't do this reckless, the one year old or. This is nuts. Why would some. Because, you know, Clay and I have both been kind of going back and forth in it. If you think it's crazy he got arrested. He wasn't trying to. Let's. Let's hear from you on this. And also if you're from law enforcement, I'm wondering if you have any experience with this kind of thing and where you draw the line. I'm probably in different states, there's a different. There are different guidelines about this, but when is it. It was like endangering a minor or something like that was what he was. Deprivation of a minor was the charge. He was arrested for okay, well is that, is that kind of up to the discretion of the officer in a situation, you know, absent abuse, anything bad happening, is that up to the officer? I'm kind of curious. I have no idea.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, and I'm curious on the responses. And again in Augusta, this is a 24 year old guy. Now it says that he has a 10 year old, May not be his kid.

[Maria Konnikova]

Right.

[Clay Travis]

I mean he may be taking care of other people's kids, maybe some of the kids are his. I just need more information to have a full on opinion on it. But what do they always say? I think it's 100% true. You know who the best employees are? Men with kids, man with the kids, man with a family is going to show up and he's going to come to work. As a general rule, more reliable than single guy is vip.

[Maria Konnikova]

Email from Gary, Is this correct? How about the fact that he's 24 with a 10 year old kid? Kid.

[Clay Travis]

Well that's what it says. So I was just saying is it actually his? Is it actually his kid? The oldest 10 year old, is he in charge of taking care of multiple kids? Again, there are a lot of details.

[Maria Konnikova]

I didn't even think about that. Now there's stuff we don't know definitely.

[Clay Travis]

Need to be fleshed out. But I mean there are people who have young kids, have kids at young ages and are trying to do the right thing. And to me, if you're trying to get a job to take care of your family, intent matters here. You're trying to do something to help your family be better off than they otherwise would. Which is why I want to know more details. But again, I also think you have to be fair to the police because the police oftentimes don't get their full story told. How many times have we seen a viral story where the police are the bad guy and the police are the bad guys here. And then the details come out and it's like, well, the kids are there for an hour and a half.

[Maria Konnikova]

I won't, I wouldn't even say the police the bad guy. It might, it might be, it's kind of like with a teacher in school, sometimes they don't have any police might, it might be mandatory because of the age of the one year old. No parental. So I, I actually don't blame the officers without knowing what all the facts are and being on the. I'm not blaming the officers. Like there's a lot that's. But the bottom line here is what's the age at which you're allowed to leave a kid in public alone and not get arrested.

[Clay Travis]

I don't I 10, 6 year olds I would be okay with. Some of you are going to say.

[Maria Konnikova]

This, but it might not be actually be a function of law in some states. I don't know.

[Clay Travis]

I don't think they would have arrested him if it had just been a 10 and a 6 year old. I think the 1 year old is the, is the tough part here. Job number one. Most of us out there protect our families and the safety of our homes. Most of the time communities are safe enough, protected enough, so maybe you don't have to worry about it. But what about when you do? What about when something does emerge as a problem? Sabre, they make products you can defend yourself and your family with. Family owned business. They've been at this for 50 years. And how you best protect yourself and your family? Well, Saber products, they got all sorts of stuff. Non lethal pepper sprays. A lot of you out there with daughters, granddaughters, going off to school, driving around all day. Really great. You can put it on the keychain. My wife has got it. You can have it as well. Also they have home defense projectile pepper spray launchers. I've talked about this. I got two teenage boys. Uh, maybe you've got young kids in your house that are coming back in. They're 17, 18 years old. They may not always make curfew. Maybe you got kids off way of college, maybe they're in their 20s. But they still swing by the house and come in at odd hours. And you don't want to have lethal force, but maybe the alarm goes off and you want to make sure you're protected. That's what the pepper spray launcher from Sabre can do. We tested these down in South Florida recently. They're awesome. Dozens of products. This is family owned business. You need to check them out. S A b r e radio.com 15% off everything when you go today. Check them out. Protect you, your family. Non lethal. S A B R E radio.com you can also call 844-824-SAFE. That's Saber Radio. S A B R E radio.com news and politics. But also a little comic relief. Clay, Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nate Silver]

I'm Nate Silver.

[Unknown]

And I'm Maria Konnikova. We're both journalists and professional poker players. And on our podcast Risky Business, we talk about taking risks in everything from poker to politics.

[Nate Silver]

And we talk about betting from betting on elections to betting on your feet, favorite basketball team. We've learned a lot about taking risks through our own research and sometimes even our own bets. And we share what we've learned with you.

[Unknown]

Are you still doing sports betting? I had no idea that you'd wagered over a million dollars for your research.

[Nate Silver]

I bet almost the entirety of the 20, 22, 23 NBA season, all the regular season, and about half the playoffs. And I learned that. I mean, it's probably what I should have expected, but I learned that it's pretty hard. I went on a huge heater at the start of the NBA season where it was up, like, 70,000 bucks. I'm like, man, I'm really good at the sports betting stuff. But then. But then, things change.

[Unknown]

Now that March Madness is upon us. We're talking bracket strategies and a whole lot more. Join us and listen to Risky business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Konnikova]

All right, welcome back. Welcome back into Clay and Buck. Got a bunch of calls. Bunch of people weighing in. Here we go. Oh, people are fired up to this one. You're not up to speed. Oh, is it the end of the guys? We're have to. I just realized we're at the end.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, yeah, we'll take some calls. Top of the hour. We'll break all this down.

[Maria Konnikova]

Yeah, yeah, we'll jump into this because we want to hear from all of you. We got every line lit, tons of VIP emails coming in, so we'll take some of your calls. Hold through the break here. And we'll also tell you about the latest in tariffs, as today is liberation day.

[Clay Travis]

Not only that, maybe TikTok getting officially purchased. There's reports that it could come out today. Who's going to be buying?

[Maria Konnikova]

Clay's gonna start popping up on Jim Cramer's show at this.

[Clay Travis]

You know what I mean?

[Maria Konnikova]

You see him on Fox all the time. All of a sudden, Kramer's gonna be like, clay, buy or sell?

[Clay Travis]

I'll probably be better at it than Kramer based on his track record lately.

[Maria Konnikova]

Fair point.