Hour 2 - GA Gov. Brian Kemp

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – “Hour 2 - GA Gov. Brian Kemp”

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics, and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, they guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with engaging conversations and opinions.
• Episode: Hour 2 - GA Gov. Brian Kemp
• Release Date: July 14, 2025

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1. Introduction and Episode Focus ([00:04] – [03:32])

Clay Travis and Buck Sexton kick off the episode by highlighting upcoming topics, including significant national and international issues like Ukraine and the Epstein case. The primary focus shifts to Georgia Governor Brian Kemp and his role in securing and maintaining election integrity in the state.

Key Points:

• Election Integrity in Georgia: Post-2020 election challenges led Governor Kemp and the Georgia legislature to implement the Elections Integrity Act aimed at enhancing security, reliability, and transparency in Georgia’s voting process.
• Atlanta Braves All-Star Game: The episode connects the significance of the All-Star Game being hosted in Atlanta to Georgia’s improved election processes, emphasizing the state’s commitment to progress and stability.

Notable Quote:

• Clay Travis ([00:04]): “The All Star Game was set to be played in Atlanta several years ago back in 2021, after the 2020 election and the difficulty of counting votes and all of the difficulty surrounding the voting process in general in the state of Georgia…”

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2. Interview with Governor Brian Kemp ([03:32] – [09:55])

Governor Kemp discusses the Elections Integrity Act, addressing criticisms from President Joe Biden and Democrats who labeled the act as racist and akin to Jim Crow laws. He defends the legislation by highlighting successful court battles and increased minority participation in elections.

Key Points:

• Defending the Elections Integrity Act: Kemp asserts that the act made voting easier while preventing fraud, countering claims of suppression.
• Legal Success: The Governor mentions winning every lawsuit filed by Stacey Abrams and other Democrats against the act.
• Increased Voter Turnout: Elections following the act saw heightened minority participation, contradicting allegations of disenfranchisement.
• Economic Impact: Hosting the All-Star Game positively affects local businesses, especially those previously harmed by moving the event.

Notable Quotes:

• Brian Kemp ([01:59]): “President Biden, Stacey Abrams, the rest of the left, a lot of the national media… really most of the national media were over the Elections Integrity Act that made it easy to vote and hard to cheat in Georgia.”
• Brian Kemp ([03:32]): “We’ve seen minority participation increase in those elections. So, like, all the things that they said never happened, and we knew they weren’t going to happen because we knew what was in the bill.”

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3. Georgia’s Political Landscape and Senate Races ([09:55] – [11:33])

Clay and Buck delve into Georgia’s political dynamics, particularly focusing on recent Senate races and future elections. Governor Kemp shares his insights on the challenges and strategies for the Republican Party to secure future Senate seats.

Key Points:

• Upcoming Senate Races: Discussion about the competitive nature of Georgia as a swing state and the importance of strong Republican candidates.
• Fundraising and Ground Game: Emphasis on robust fundraising efforts and grassroots campaigns as critical components for electoral success.
• Presidential Support: Kemp highlights the necessity of unified support from Republican leadership, including the White House, to back Senate candidates effectively.

Notable Quote:

• Brian Kemp ([07:10]): “We built our own ground game. We did all this work, phone call and everything. We raised the money for it. And we’ve done that two cycles in a row now. And it’s worked in our state and I believe it’ll work again in 2026.”

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4. Brief Segment on Ghislaine Maxwell ([15:06] – [17:57])

A listener named George from Tallahassee raises concerns about Ghislaine Maxwell potentially testifying before Congress. The hosts discuss the implications and possible repercussions of her testimony.

Key Points:

• Ghislaine Maxwell’s Testimony: Maxwell, a convicted felon serving a 20-year sentence for trafficking girls for Epstein, is reportedly ready to testify in front of Congress.
• Security Concerns: Discussion about the unprecedented nature of bringing Maxwell out of federal prison for testimony and the potential risks involved.
• Speculation on Motivations: Analysis of whether Maxwell’s testimony could implicate high-profile figures, though Governor Kemp emphasizes the importance of credible evidence.

Notable Quotes:

• Buck Sexton ([16:42]): “Do you think she has put a target on her back… she might be Epstein before she knows it.”
• Cobey Cruz ([17:57]): “Do you believe Trump, Pam Bondi, Cash Patel and Dan Bongino or not when they say that there are not right now actionable information inside of the government files that would allow people to be prosecuted?”

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5. Trump’s Escalation in Ukraine Conflict ([18:10] – [30:08])

The conversation shifts to President Donald Trump’s recent decisions regarding Ukraine, specifically the provision of Patriot missile systems to Ukraine. The hosts analyze how this move represents a significant escalation in U.S. support and its potential implications for the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Key Points:

• Provision of Patriot Missiles: Trump announces the deployment of Patriot missile batteries to Ukraine, marking a shift from solely defensive aid to more offensive capabilities.
• Strategic Implications: The deployment aims to pressure Russia by enabling Ukraine to target Russian infrastructure directly.
• Technological Advancements: Discussion on the evolution of drone warfare and Russia’s tactics, including drone swarming and missile strikes on critical infrastructure.
• Political Ramifications: The move challenges previously held Republican narratives and affects political calculations both domestically and internationally.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump ([20:29]): “Everything is Patriots. It’s all of them. It’s a full complement with the batteries.”
• Clay Travis ([22:13]): “This is a drone war of attrition. That is what we’re in, as well as a human being one.”
• Brian Kemp ([25:05]): “Vladimir Putin thinks he’s winning because he is winning. He is going to be able to out punch in this match what the Ukrainians have.”

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6. Listener Insights and Expert Opinions ([32:11] – [35:06])

A listener named Jimmy, with experience in operating Patriot missile systems, provides technical insights into the capabilities of the Patriot missiles being sent to Ukraine.

Key Points:

• Patriot Missile Upgrades: Jimmy explains the advancements in Patriot missile technology, including increased launcher capacity and improved impact precision.
• Effectiveness Against Drones: He emphasizes that upgraded Patriot systems are well-suited to intercept and neutralize modern drone threats posed by Russia.

Notable Quotes:

• Jimmy ([32:26]): “Patriot systems… now they carry about 16. … the impact on impact on impact when it comes to taking out a drone…”
• Clay Travis ([34:25]): “It’s a drone versus drone war. It’s crazy already what we’re seeing going on here with thousands and thousands of these things being deployed.”

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7. Analysis and Future Implications ([35:03] – [36:39])

Clay and Buck analyze the broader implications of the U.S. escalating its support to Ukraine, discussing potential outcomes and strategic shifts in the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Key Points:

• Negotiation Tactics: Trump’s provision of advanced weaponry serves as a negotiation tactic to force Russia into ceasefire discussions.
• Escalation Risks: Concerns about mission creep and the potential for increased militarization and conflict intensity in the region.
• Domestic Political Impact: The shift may alter the Republican base’s perception of support for Ukraine and influence future political strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Buck Sexton ([36:26]): “This is very different than, hey, we’re going to. Even the Biden team… we’re going to negotiate an end to the conflict. That was the plan.”
• Clay Travis ([36:39]): “Putin’s having his way with us while we have these negotiations… we’re concerned about mission creep in the Middle East. We’re concerned about mission creep in Ukraine.”

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Conclusion

In this episode, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton engage in a comprehensive discussion with Georgia Governor Brian Kemp about election integrity and its broader political implications. The conversation transitions into an in-depth analysis of President Trump’s recent policy shifts regarding Ukraine, highlighting the strategic and political ramifications of escalating U.S. military support. Through expert insights and listener interactions, the hosts provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the evolving political and international landscape.

Final Notes:

• Event Attendance: Governor Kemp confirms his attendance at the Atlanta Braves All-Star Game, emphasizing the positive economic and communal impact of the event.
• Upcoming Topics: The hosts tease future discussions on prominent national issues, maintaining engagement and anticipation for subsequent episodes.

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Timestamps Overview:

• Introduction: [00:04] – [03:32]
• Interview with Gov. Kemp: [03:32] – [09:55]
• Political Landscape: [09:55] – [11:33]
• Ghislaine Maxwell Segment: [15:06] – [17:57]
• Ukraine Conflict Analysis: [18:10] – [30:08]
• Listener Insights: [32:11] – [35:06]
• Final Analysis: [35:03] – [36:39]

This structured summary captures the essence and key discussions of the episode, providing a clear and informative overview for those who have not listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in our number two, Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us as we're rolling through the Monday edition of the program. Lots of things going on right now. We're going to continue to break them down, whether it's Ukraine, whether it's Epstein and beyond. But we're headed now to talk to the the governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, because I think this is one of the great untold stories that lots of people are going to pretend just never happened. But I know a lot of you who are baseball fans, certainly, and definitely, if you are Atlanta Braves fans, were very, very excited. The All Star Game was set to be played in Atlanta several years ago back in 2021, uh, after the 2020 election and the difficulty of counting votes and all of the difficulty surrounding the, the voting process in general in the state of Georgia, Brian Kemp, governor of Georgia, along with the legislature in the state of Georgia, said, let's clean up, let's provide more security, let's provide more reliability, transparency, all of those things for our elections going forward. And the president at the time, Joe Biden, said that this was the equivalent of Jim Crow. He actually said it was even worse than Jim Crow. He said it was Jim Eagle. He said it was racist. He said it was awful. And a lot of people, again, have forgotten about this. They have memory. Hold it. I know the governor of Georgia has not. He is with us now. Brian Kemp. The All Star Game is in Atlanta tomorrow. The Home Run Derby is tonight. But I want to give you an opportunity to tee off on Joe Biden and all the Democrats who said that what you guys were doing was a direct attack on democracy. Thank you for joining us. The floor is yours, Governor.

[Brian Kemp]

Well, thanks for having me on, guys. Good to be with you. I'm still trying to figure out what the whole Jim Eagle thing meant anyway, you know, all these, all these years later. But, you know, it's really outrageous how really overstated. President Biden, Stacey Abrams, the rest of the left, a lot of the national media, really most of the national media were over the Elections Integrity act that made it easy to vote and hard to cheat in Georgia. And I know you went through, Buck, a lot of the things that we did to secure the vote, but we also gave more opportunity for people to vote in that bill. And even though we did that, the Democrats said it was, you know, suppressive and racist and Jim Crow and it wasn't the case. You know, we got sued. We won every single lawsuit that Stacey Abrams and her cronies filed against us. We've also had a bunch of elections since then where we've had, you know, secure, accessible, fair elections in Georgia. We've seen minority participation increase in those elections. So, like, all the things that they said never happened, and we knew they weren't going to happen because we knew what was in the bill. They overplayed their hand, really made a bad political mistake. And, you know, the commissioner in Major League Baseball and some corporations did the same thing, and now they know that they were wrong in that regard. But we're certainly glad to have the All Star Game being in Atlanta this year. It's going to be great. It's a great ballpark. It's a great area up there. And it's great for the small business people that got screwed last time when they moved the game.

[Buck Sexton]

And actually, the voting, and I think this is important, voting numbers actually went up after the security bill that you guys put in place in 2022 compared to prior midterms and up again in 2024. Doesn't it seem like there should be some consequences for all of those lies? I know Trump won Georgia. I know you won big. Uh, but the fact that they all said this, they pulled the All Star Game. Now they're coming back. It's like everybody just wants to pretend none of this ever happened.

[Brian Kemp]

Well, we got to make sure we never forget. And, you know, first of all, there's a couple of things, you know, it just shows you when you get political in sports, it always ends up being bad. You know, so one thing that unites people on both sides of the aisle and people that don't even care about politics. So why, you know, drag sporting events in the middle of that? I told the commissioner he was making a mistake that, you know, he already had. You know, the people on the left that were mad at him because he hadn't moved, and then when he pulled the bill, he had made everybody on the right. Man. I said, now you're in the middle of a circular firing squad. You're never going to make the left happy. And, you know, that's. That's just what happened. But we shouldn't have politics in sports. And that was the first big mistake. But the other thing is, it was really one of the first times coming out of COVID where we stood up and said, we are not going to run from our values. It's kind of like the, you know, boys and girls sports argument. You know, finally the right and people just. Just saying people are standing up and going, enough is enough already. We're not going to be bullied around by a corporate boardroom or Major League Baseball or anybody else. We're going to stand up for what our values are and what we want to do in our state to make sure our elections are secure but also accessible. And that's really when people started coming after us. We just took the fight right back to them because I knew what was in the bill. We had worked very hard with the legislature to make sure that we addressed the issue, you know, the mechanical issues with the election that we all saw and that we needed to fix, but also making sure that it wasn't suppressive, it wasn't going to keep anybody from voting. And then we had a secure system, and that's what the people want. And we stood up and fought for that and pushed back and didn't bow down. And, you know, there's been a lot of great governors that have done that since then, a lot of other people that are just saying, hey, enough is enough. And now you're seeing the pendulum start to swing back against all this just craziness in the world. And, you know, Republicans are pretty good at, you know, live and let live and not trying to dictate people's daily lives, but the other side's not, you know, they want to push their agenda on us. And I think it's, you know, for the last several years, including with President Trump and like, in my reelection, a lot of other people been standing up and going, you know, this is what you've gotten and this is not what you want. And it showed at the ballot box over the last couple of cycles.

[Clay Travis]

Governor Camp, it's Buck. Appreciate you being here with us. And look, I'm, I'm a. I'm a Yankee. Don't hold that against me. But who has a particular soft spot for Georgia? I love your state. I do have a complaint, though, which is that we have lost some very winnable Senate seats in Georgia in some recent elections. I know the Democrat Ossoff is going to be up in this next cycle. It's early, but how are you seeing that political landscape? I mean, Trump against Kamala was what, 51, 49? When all things are considered, Georgia is this critical swing state. Do you feel confident that the state Republican Party and just the people of Georgia are going to make the right decision the next time around and we'll pick up a Republican Senate seat? How do you see that?

[Brian Kemp]

Well, it's going to be a tough race. I mean, anytime you're trying to beat it incumbent. It's going to be very tough, especially in a state like Georgia. I mean, I personally think the generic ballot In Georgia is a 5248 kind of state. We saw much of that with President Trump's reelection. You know, we had a lot better get out the vote effort, lot better targeting effort, lot better daily track and Poland, you know, going after low propensity voters. And in the 24 cycle, we were a big part of helping that with not only our legislative candidates, but also winning at the top of the ticket with the President. But we also did the same thing in 2022 in my re election campaign. We built our own ground game. We did all this work, phone call and everything. We raised the money for it. And we've done that two cycles in a row now. And it's worked in our state and I believe it'll work again in 2026. If we have really good candidate, we raise a lot of money and then we do the fundamental things that we need to do. And I am going to be 100% engaged in making sure that we're raising that money and doing those fundamentals. And I've been, you know, talking to the White House and to the President about us uniting behind the candidate that we can all get behind, because that's really, in my eyes, the only way that you're going to beat a tough incumbent. He has a very vulnerable record, but make no mistake, he'll have unlimited money from the billionaires on their side and he's the shameless politician and he'll be tough to beat. But that said, he's got a record where we can beat him. If you think about the Democrats being in control of the Congress and the White House From 2020 to 2022, the millions of people that they just let come unabated across the border creating 40 year high inflation and high costs that we're dealing with today, high mortgage rates, high rents, housing prices. I mean, it's affected everybody out there from the bottom up. You know, supporting boys, playing in girls sports and then voting against arming Israel. I mean, those are things that are his record. He is going to have to defend that. And that is not going to be an easy thing to do in the state of Georgia.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, you know, Governor, I wanted you to run. So you're not going to run now in the Senate. I think you've said that. Is that still you're not running, right? Is that fair?

[Brian Kemp]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's. That's correct. I mean, it's just not a good time for me and the family. I've got a great job now. I want to continue to focus on that. I'm also chairing the Republican Governors association, so I'm committed to raising a lot of money to help reelect and elect Republican governors in the 26 cycle this year, in 25 in New Jersey and Virginia. And then next year we have 36 races. So we have a lot going on. I've committed to doing that and, you know, very happy where I am very flattered that a lot of people wanted me to run. This is not a good time for me right now.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, so do you then you mentioned the importance of having really good candidates in 26 for both governor and Senate and what will be a huge battleground state, as you said, 5248 state. Do you anticipate endorsing for the Senate and or the governors? And what would that look like for people out there? What would your timeframe look like on something like that?

[Brian Kemp]

Well, in the governor's race, I'm not getting involved in that right now. I mean, look, I know everybody that's in there. I've worked with them, had a great relationship, got a great record in the state that we've all done good things to keep our state moving forward. And, you know, someone will let them hash that out, at least for right now anyway. In the Senate race, I've told everybody that's running, people that are thinking about running, that my goal is to try to work and get President Trump and I on the same page of supporting a candidate in the U.S. senate race, because I think that is the single best way that we could beat Jon Ossoff. You know, us being on the same page in the 2024 cycle worked great for helping him win the state of Georgia, helping us hold the state House. We beat an incumbent Democrat in the district that Kamala Harris won in our state and held three incumbents in district that she won. And so we had great success at working together. My goal is for us to do that again in the 2026 cycle, and we're working on that as we speak.

[Buck Sexton]

What do you think the timeframe is on that in terms of trying to pick a guy or gal?

[Brian Kemp]

Well, you know, I think it's hard to say. I mean, it can't be forever from now, but we still have a little bit of time, being that we're in the middle of the dog days of summer.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, well, I see you at the All Star game tomorrow. I'm betting you're going to be there.

[Brian Kemp]

I am going to be at the All Star Game tomorrow. Atlanta Braves, they're a great organization. They've been very supportive of things that we've been doing in the state. And you know, really, I know they wouldn't want to be dragged into this whole mess with MLB because they didn't have anything to do with that. And we're just excited for the organization and all the people that put so much work into having a great week in Atlanta. And, you know, it's a great way to showcase that ballpark. And plus the battery around it, it's a great, great economic impact venue. If you've ever been there, it's incredible. If you haven't, you should go. It's really a cool place to see a ball game and experience some great entertainment outside the ballpark.

[Buck Sexton]

Amen. I'll be there. Governor, knock it out. We appreciate the time and enjoy the game.

[Brian Kemp]

I see you guys. Thanks for having me on. Go Dogs.

[Buck Sexton]

Governor Brian Kemp, for those of you who don't know Go Dogs at the end there, the SEC media days underway. Georgia Bulldogs, which by the way, Buck, your wife would probably not love because she is a Florida Gator. And I think that's one of the great rivalries in all the sports out there. Gators versus Dogs. Look, it said art can imitate life. Take a good crime drama on tv. And how many times do you see where the episode is centered on, hey, is the will there? Is it real? Can we rely on it? This is dramatic oftentimes, but it's also reflective of what happens, unfortunately, when someone passes in real life, oftentimes there isn't a will. There's not a trust. People don't know what choices you would have made. And my goodness, why not go ahead and solve that once and for all? You likely spend a huge portion of your life trying to make sure that your kids, that your grandkids, have the best possible advantages they can have going forward. You do everything to try to help them. But if you thought about what will happen when you're gone, have you tried to limit the fighting? Have you tried to limit the disagreements? Have you really dove into this? A lot of you haven't. I've got to trust in a will. Buck's got a trust in a will. We want you to take care of this as well by going to trustandwill.com they make it simple, affordable, and the result will give you peace of mind so that your surviving family members have clarity and you're trying to limit what they might be fighting about after you're gone. You spend your whole life trying to take care of your family. Why not limit all of the uncertainty when you're gone? You take control of this yourself. @trustandwill.com they're experts creating personalized trust and wills that will protect your legacy. That's trust and will. Com.

[Unknown]

Stories of freedom, stories of America, inspirational stories that unite us all. Each day, spend time with Clay and Buck. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck. Let's get your calls, your talkbacks. Remember, if you want to chat with us, 800-28228. The talkback is a fantastic feature found on the iHeartRadio app. Sorry I paused there for a second because like a bolt of lightning just went off right here. Felt like right near my head here. And in Miami, that happens out of nowhere sometimes. So if you want to talk to us, the Talkback is fantastic. I heart app. Download it, have it and press the microphone button, record and you'll be good to go. Let's get to George in Tallahassee, my state capitol. What's up, George?

[Unknown]

Just, just watching the world go by. Guys wanting to make a point that Giselle Maxwell has now come out and said she's ready to testify in front of Congress and name names and places and dates. She did make it a point to say that Donald Trump was not on that list. As you know, she's in the FCI here in Tallahassee and it's made news everywhere. I think she's just put a target on her back and she might be Epstein before she knows it. But I just thought that was really interesting with the timing of everything. And now she's ready to talk and, and just, you know, she's got, she's got a copy at list. Make no mistake about it. And I was wondering what your guys take, you guys take was and, and whether you think she has put a target on her back.

[Buck Sexton]

Ghislaine Maxwell is, I believe, and team in New York. You can fact check me on this. I believe she's a convicted felon serving 20 years in prison for trafficking girls for, for Epstein. I don't know what the precedents are, candidly on pulling someone out of federal prison. I believe she's in federal prison and bringing them to Capitol Hill to testify. I don't know if you can think of one Buck. I can't think of very ever occurring where you pull somebody out of federal prison to come testify on Capitol Hill. Maybe it's happened before. I just don't know what the precedent and the security apparatus around that is. Do I think that they could probably.

[Clay Travis]

Have her virtually testify?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, maybe that's the answer. Maybe that's the answer is they could have a virtually testify. I don't know candidly enough about what the congressional testimony rules are in terms of who can be a witness and who cannot. And so if she's going to testify to things that could be useful, then I don't have any problem with it at all. And I do think that probably given some of the other witnesses in this case, that the danger to her inside of prison, not insubstantial. I mean, in other words, would it suddenly astound you if something violent happened to her based on how this story has gone down? It would not. And I think probably a lot of you would acknowledge that too. I do not. He said that she has said publicly some things about what she might testify about. I do not know a lot of details, frankly, surrounding what she might testify to. And so that's my, you know, kind of analysis in general. Again, ultimately this comes down, in my opinion, to do you believe Trump, Pam Bondi, Cash Patel and Dan Bongino or not when they say that there are not right now actionable information inside of the government files that would allow people to be prosecuted? That's the question.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

Press Clay Travis, Buck Sexton SHOW Appreciate all of you hanging out with us as we are rolling through the Monday edition of the program. Okay, let's dive into some situations that I actually think are hugely, we were talking about this off the air, hugely important and largely not being talked about at all. So Trump has now said, hey, I'm going to basically give Ukraine all the weapons they need, including weapons that could be used in an offensive manner. Okay, what do I mean by that? That means that weapons, missiles, attack weaponry that could theoretically even reach Moscow, we are now going to give to Ukraine. This is a substantial escalation in the overall quality of weapon that we have provided because to a large extent, we said in the past, hey, we're only going to provide Ukraine with defensive weaponry that is designed to attack Russia when they are coming into the country, but not these long range tactical weapons. It now appears that we are going to be providing long range tactical weapons. This was from the White House a bit ago. Earlier today, Trump asked about exactly this. What kind of weapons are you going to send to Ukraine? This is cut 29. Will these be Patriot missiles specifically or Patriot batteries that you're planning?

[Brian Kemp]

And when do you, when do you.

[Donald Trump]

Everything is Patriots. It's all of them. It's a full complement with the batteries.

[Brian Kemp]

And when do you expect them to arrive in Ukraine?

[Donald Trump]

Well, we're going to have some come very soon, within days. Actually, a couple of the countries that have Patriots are going to swap over and we'll replace the Patriots with the ones they have and Matt will coordinate with NATO. But so it's going to be, they're going to start arriving very soon.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, I'm going to ask Buck about this in a sec. I want to play one more cut. Trump said, I got home and talked about the first lady about his calls with Vladimir Putin and Melania said, well, just listen. Cut 31.

[Donald Trump]

I go home, I tell the first lady and I spoke to Vladimir today. We had a wonderful conversation. She said, oh, really? Another city was just hit. So it's like.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, so Melania's paying attention to what Russia is doing. She's from Eastern Europe. Probably not a surprise that she would be paying attention to what's going on in Eastern Europe because it's her homeland. Buck, I want to ask you this. Everybody is focused on a lot of other stories right now. Am I crazy to think us giving these kind of weapons to Ukraine, given what has been said over the past several years about, hey, we want to limit the spread of this conflict, is actually a huge Story, part one, part two. Is there a way that Trump wants this to be out publicly to Putin to try to pressure him? Hey, we better get a ceasefire or else there are going to be consequences inside of Russia. How do you analyze this? As a former foreign policy guy inside of the CIA.

[Clay Travis]

I think that he's changing his position based on the reality of the conflict. I think this is a change in posture from Trump, which is based on the, like I said, the experience of seeing what it is that Vladimir Putin is really all about. And the problem here is it was very popular with the Republican base going into this election to say that we were going to stop. Well, it wasn't really even clear what it was. We were just, Zelensky is money laundering, they say, and Zelensky is doing all these bad things. And, and, you know, we don't want to get involved in another war. Okay, yes, absolutely. We don't want to get involved in another war, but are we going to stop sending them stuff or not? And that was the question that really wasn't answered on the right. And anybody, I think, who was being honest and paying attention would, Would. Would admit, I mean, we just never got a full and clear explanation other than we're going to negotiate an end to the conflict. That was the plan. The plan is they're going to negotiate an end to the conflict. Putin doesn't want to do that. And this is what we've really seen. So I think we need to look at this with what's actually happening. Putin sees a Ukraine that. It's fascinating stuff. Take, take apart the humanitarian, you know, casualties, catastrophes and awful stuff that's going on. It's fascinating just to see how quickly the war is evolving. Whereas now they're saying that drone technology is. Every 90 days, there's new drones with new capabilities that are being deployed on this battlefield. There's. There's suicide drones that are kind of like a missile with drone capability. There's Russian versions of the Reaper drone, which has both surveillance and offensive capability. There's all. I mean, there's drones that are launched by individual soldiers, drones that are, you know, 12ft across and are operating more like an unmanned plane or strike craft. I mean, there's a lot of stuff, and it really comes down to manufacturing capacity and technology, and that's what's really moving the front lines here. Part of what's going on is the Russians are just swarming Ukrainian air defenses with so many drones that they're running out of countermeasures. And then the Russians Hit them with missiles and the cities and hit critical infrastructure and really try to punish them. So that's what's going on here. I mean, this is now a drone war of attrition. That is what we're in, as well as a human being one. I mean, they're taking serious casualties on the front, but it's a drone war of attrition. And the problem that Trump is facing right now is that Vladimir Putin thinks he's winning because he is winning. He's, he is, he's going to be able to out punch in this match what the Ukrainians have. And so Trump is saying, all right, Putin, you jerk. And Trump's been pretty salty in his language about this. I'm not exaggerating. He's like, all right, for all the.

[Buck Sexton]

People out there that spent years telling us Trump was Putin's stooge, he's actually aggressively going after Putin, frankly, on a level that most politicians, particularly on the Republican side, have not been willing. Right. I think that's kind of significant.

[Clay Travis]

Yes. And he's saying, I'm going to do. Now, remember, Trump is the one who was willing to escalate in support of Ukraine at different points. All along it was Trump, not Obama, who was willing to give lethal aid to the Ukrainians back in the early days of this Russian slow motion invasion. And so Trump is now willing to say, ok, look, we try to get these guys that, you saw him, he smacked around Zelensky and said, all right, you don't have the cards. We've got to get you to negotiating table. We've got to end this thing. And Zelensky, you could tell, was cowed by this a little bit or was a little like, ok, like, fine, yes, sir. And then he sits down with Putin. He goes, all right, buddy, what do we need here to make a deal? And Putin's like, oh, you know, sure, let's make a deal. And then he keeps firing the missiles. Melania's spot on here. I just say, and this is the game that Putin is playing. He's saying, I want peace too. And then he just keeps firing missiles and doing even more. So he's making Trump look bad. And making Trump look bad is not smart because he doesn't take well to that. So I think that you're going to see a major escalation here of the kind of munitions that we're giving. But I just want to be clear, that is a shift in policy. And the Trump base should be aware of that. That is a major shift in policy. That is underway right now.

[Buck Sexton]

I'm actually surprised that this has not. We had a massive debate about whether we should get involved in Iran, right? Everybody out there who voted for Trump, there were people who said, oh, it's gonna start World War Three. Oh, there's gonna be thousands of Americans that die. Oh, gas prices are gonna go to over $10 a gallon. All untrue. But there were people out there making the argument that if we joined Israel and attacked, that there would be major consequences. Hey, this was not America first. This is not what I voted for. Suddenly, on Ukraine, there's almost no discussion about this at all. Such that I think a huge percentage of you out there are hearing about this for the first time. Now, my analysis is that Trump is trying to, by doing this, let Russia know, hey, it's time to put down the weapons. And if you're not going to do that, there may be consequences for you Russia, that you have had not to contemplate prior to now. The downside of this is if that doesn't work, then we are looking at an accelerated amount of fighting that could be occurring not only in Ukraine, but also in Russia. So I don't know how this is going to play out, but I think what Buck just said is very important. This is very different than, hey, we're going to. Even the Biden team basically said, we're only going to give defensive weaponry, if any. And I think part of this is it's. It's upsetting the political calculus, which is what Trump candidly does regularly, such that the left would have to say, wow, Trump is actually more supportive of Ukraine than Biden ever was. And that many people on the right would have to say, wait a minute, this is different than what we thought we were getting. And so a lot of people just pretend it's not happening, candidly.

[Clay Travis]

Well, this is. This is a pivot. And I don't see this going in some other direction. I don't think it's a head fake, Clay, because Putin has slapped away Trump's outstretched hand on this one a few times. And instead of even he has. He has used the period of Trump's outreach to bring together some kind of a. At least a real ceasefire, a durable ceasefire on this to escalate attacks. And so clearly what he's doing is he's showing Trump that he doesn't care. He doesn't care about these casualties at all that are happening. In fact, he plans to punish the Ukrainian military and the Ukrainian people more. And I just would say the concerns about the United States being dragged further into this should still very much be in play for everybody because now you're talking about giving Ukraine weapons that can reach into Russia and hit Russian infrastructure. Because if you don't do this, Russia is just going to effectively overwhelm and, and become so dominant in this conflict that then you're really not going to be able to get them to stop. But how does Russia escalate and what is the Russian response to this? And you talk about Patriot missiles. This is an advanced system that we're going to be operating inside of Ukrainian territory. We're going to, you know, where do we stop this? So I'm just very aware of the fact that we're concerned about mission creep in the Middle East. We're concerned about mission creep in Ukraine. The mission's creeping a little bit. It's creeping a little bit. That's happening right now.

[Buck Sexton]

Isn't it super fair to say that there's almost no discussion about this and it was 100 or a thousand to one. The debate about in terms of coverage and contemplation and debate in terms of what we should do with Iran, associated with Israel and now this Ukraine, Russia decision by and large isn't getting any attention at all. I just think that's very interesting. And again, I think anyone trying to predict how Vladimir Putin is going to respond to anything, it's difficult. I think the calculus that Trump is putting in play here is the only thing that Putin responds to is force and, and threat of force. And so Ukraine needs the ability to threaten Russia in their home country or else there's no way to get these two sides to the table. Is it right? I don't know. It's a big gamble. I think it's fair to say decisions about health care coverage and which plans right for you don't come easily in most cases. It's like choosing the best of the worst, something as important as healthcare insurance. You want to feel good about the choices you're making. Why settle for a government plan like the Affordable Care Act, AKA Obamacare when there's a better option out there? It's called Ease for Everyone and it offers affordable health care for as low as $262 a month. You can keep your doctor, never pay a deductible and access over 400 prescription drugs for free. Go online to the website, see what plan is right for you and your family. Ease for Everyone was developed by forward thinking experts located in in my hometown of Nashville. Visit ease for everyone.com Clay to join today that's ease for everyone.com Clay two.

[Unknown]

Guys walk up to a mic. Anything goes. Clay, Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. Get some talk back, some calls. Some good things going on here. Jimmy in Texas love us used to run Patriot missile batteries. Jimmy, you're the expert. Tell us what's going on.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, so far I start just want to say I'm a big fan. Glad you'll take over for wrestling, boss.

[Clay Travis]

Oh thank you sir.

[Jimmy]

Yes, sir. Want to give a heartfelt message. Thank you all for the coverage that you all got in Texas. So I appreciate that. I'll make it short and quick. Patriot systems back when I was getting out, they cost what, 20 million a missile basically. But they're they were really long, really thick. Now they're short, they're small. One launcher used to carry four. Now they carry about 16. And maybe that's probably even more than what they have now. But the technology is definitely upgraded back then, you know, the point to explosion ratio was I think maybe about 10 to 15ft. I'm sure it's down even closer to that, maybe by a foot when it comes to impact and explosion on impact. So being able to take out a drone, I don't think that they any of our allies, any if Ukraine got the upgraded systems or if they got the older systems would not have any issues. But I would not doubt that President Trump would not allow that to happen when it comes to making sure that Ukraine has a correct defense system against Russia.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, Jimmy, my understanding is that they're going to try to use the Patriot missiles to shoot down the more traditional missiles with a heavier payload that Russia sends in after they do this tactic of drone swarming to throw off the counter, you know, the counter battery fire or the counter UAV fire, etc. And they so they do a draw a drone swarm and then they send the missiles in. So I think the Patriots are for those missiles and the drones. This is a drone versus drone war. It's crazy already what we're seeing going on here with, with, with thousands and thousands of these things being deployed.

[Jimmy]

Well, it's very tactical. I mean I wouldn't doubt that. I would basically call it the sam. You know, the same missiles is probably what Russia still has, is what they're still using when it comes to fighting wars as well as their they have an upgraded technology when it comes to their Russian planes. But I if they give them the older systems yes. Then they may have a different area of being able to explode when it, when come in contact or whenever it's close. But if they are going to be focusing on those old, I would say old school Sam, that Russia probably may still use, then, yes, the Patriot, the old Patriot systems are not going to.

[Brian Kemp]

Be a problem when it comes to that.

[Jimmy]

So I appreciate it, gentlemen.

[Brian Kemp]

All right.

[Clay Travis]

Hey, thank you so much and thank you for your service. Thanks for being with us and shedding some expertise on the situation. We appreciate you, sir. Thank you.

[Buck Sexton]

Corey. Says here, Buck, everyone knows how anti war President Trump is. This is probably just a tactic for negotiation, showing Putin we will supply certain weapons to Ukraine, ultimately making this negotiation tactic to get a ceasefire. I don't think Trump wants that notch in his belt. He brought America into new war, peace through strength. I think that is the argument that Trump would make, which is the argument that we made on the show, that it's really about showing Putin some consequences for not engaging in a ceasefire, which frankly, he may not feel right now. The downside is, Buck, ah, he's not.

[Clay Travis]

Feeling the consequences, folks. He's gonna have to do something. Putin's winning this war and we're looking like we can't do a damn thing to stop it right now. And that's why, you know, so. So as a negotiating tactic, the negotiations have gotten us nothing so far. No, look, I could be wrong. You want to bet on a. Corey, Corey, if I'm right and we send the patriots and we send more stuff, you got to email in and say, wow, Buck, he knows something. Because the problem is, problem right now is Putin's having his way with us while we have these negotiations. Go negotiations going on. Clay, I don't think the threat of maybe doing something is going to get Putin to do anything.

[Buck Sexton]

I think that's the challenge. And I think Trump is getting frustrated because he thought that he could get this stopped. And so far he has not been able to. And so he's figuring out, hey, what can I do? How do I change the game plan here?

[Clay Travis]

I mean, trust me, Trump in these calls with Putin is probably saying, look, buddy, you don't want to go behind door number two. And Putin saying, maybe I do.

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Is an I Heart podcast.