Hour 2 - Global Terrorism and Domestic Policy Collide

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 2 - Global Terrorism and Domestic Policy Collide
Date: December 23, 2025
Guest Host: Brett Winterble
Notable Guest: Bill Roggio (Foundation for Defense of Democracies / LongWarJournal.org)

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Episode Overview

This episode, guest-hosted by Brett Winterble, blends sharp commentary on breaking legal and education news in California, ongoing debates about gender identity and healthcare policy, and hard-hitting analysis of terrorism’s global and domestic intersections. A major segment features terrorism expert Bill Roggio, offering listeners vivid insight into the post-ISIS threat landscape and concerns over financial flows potentially fueling radical organizations abroad. The latter part of the hour brings in callers for an economic and political debate about tariffs and trade policy, reflecting the show’s mix of current events, listener engagement, and right-leaning critique.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. California Education Policy Ruling

(03:16 – 13:52)

• Summary:
  Brett Winterble discusses a federal judge’s ruling that struck down California policies enabling schools to hide students’ gender identity switches from parents. Judge Roger T. Benitez’s injunction emphasized parental rights, religious freedoms, and teachers’ ethical conflicts under the old policy.

• Notable Arguments:

  • The policy’s “trifecta of harm:” to children (who lose parental guidance), parents (denied information and their role), and teachers (forced to deceive parents).
  • Winterble reflected, “The regular teacher, the average teacher does not want to have to go and deal with gender pronouns or anything like that at all. They don’t want to be a part of that because it makes them feel obviously that they’re deceiving the parents.” (09:34)

• Concerns Raised:

  • Potential confusion and risk if a student is injured at school and parents arrive unaware of the new identity.
  • Ethical unfairness toward teachers tasked with navigating complex circumstances beyond education’s scope.

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2. Gender Affirming Care and Medicaid Debate

(16:35 – 22:34)

• Summary:
  Representative Ayanna Pressley’s remarks on Medicaid and gender-affirming care are played and critiqued. She equates gender dysphoria with childhood medical conditions like broken bones or diabetes, arguing for Medicaid coverage of gender-affirming treatments.

• Winterble's Reaction:

  • Strongly questions the parity drawn between gender dysphoria and physical medical emergencies:
    “How do you say diabetes, a scraped knee, gender dysphoria... and just package that in the middle?” (17:58)
  • Concern over federal funding for transgender surgeries when "[you've] got people, homeless veterans, people who can't get eyeglasses." (20:29)

• Pressley Notable Quote:

  • “Care that for some children is the difference between despair and hope, between isolation and community, between surviving and thriving.” (19:08)

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3. Global Terrorism: ISIS and Threat Vectors

With Bill Roggio (22:34 – 34:17)

• Bondi, Australia Attack Analysis (23:32):

  • Despite official statements, ISIS remains active and capable. The recently exposed plot in Australia, targeting Jews at a Hanukkah celebration, involved operatives with ties or training in the Philippines.
  • Roggio: “Just because we want this war on terror to be over doesn’t mean that the jihadists themselves... think it’s over.” (24:44)

• ISIS Funding and Organization (26:10):

  • Extensive funding networks through criminal enterprises, taxation in controlled areas, and hawala (informal banking/honor-based transfer systems).
  • Terror groups maintain training and recruitment even when out of public spotlight.

• Minnesota Money Laundering Concerns (29:05):

  • Discussed the probability that fraudulently obtained welfare funds from Minnesota could have been channeled via hawala to terrorist groups in Somalia.
  • Roggio: “Not only is it a possibility, it's a probability… there’s a large Somali cadre from the United States that has supported Shabab, which is Al Qaeda's branch in Somalia.” (29:05)

• Soft Targets, Domestic Radicalization (30:39):

  • Violence at non-ISIS-related settings (e.g., shootings at Brown University) can inspire, and be mimicked by, terrorist actors—tactical overlap helps spot vulnerabilities.

• Key Ongoing Global Hotspots (32:41):

  • Recent deadly attack on US soldiers in Syria—points out how accountability is muddied by shifting alliances; the US might be retaliating against one group for attacks carried out by another.
  • “There’s some cover being provided here… our response is to go after the Islamic State, which, by the way, is the enemy of the Syrian government, which is responsible for killing Americans.” (33:01)

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4. Economic Policy: Tariff Debate

Listener Call Segment (37:17 – 40:55)

• Caller 'Mike' from Minnesota Critiques Tariffs:

  • Believes tariffs are merely “a tax on top of all the other taxes we pay. Nothing good can ever come out of tariffs.” (37:57)

• Host Response:

  • Engages in live debate about fair vs. free trade, reciprocity, and America’s leverage in global markets.
  • “Our market is such an important place… everybody wants to trade here. We can knock back all of these tariffs… as long as everybody’s playing ball. But if they’re not playing ball, we have to hit them with it. Like, why should we give anybody a free ride?” (39:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On California’s School Gender Policies:
  "The permanent injunction includes language that bars any employee in California's education system from misleading the parent or guardian of a minor child... whether by directly lying to the parent… or using a different set of preferred pronouns and names when speaking with the parents."
  – Brett Winterble quoting Judge Benitez (06:10)

• Winterble on Teachers and Parental Rights:
  "Teachers don't want to be a part of this. By and large, the regular teacher, the average teacher does not want to have to go and deal with gender pronouns or anything like that." (09:34)

• Ayanna Pressley:
  "For some children, [gender-affirming] care is the difference between despair and hope, between isolation and community, between surviving and thriving." (19:08)

• On Global Jihadist Networks:
  “We have to keep in mind that just because we want this war on terror to be over, doesn’t mean that the jihadists themselves... think it’s over.”
  – Bill Roggio (24:44)

• On Money Potentially Funding Terrorism:
  “Not only is it a possibility, it’s a probability... there’s a large Somali cadre from the United States that has supported Shabab, which is Al Qaeda’s branch in Somalia…”
  – Bill Roggio (29:05)

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Timestamps for Core Segments

• 03:16 – California ruling on gender policies in schools
• 16:35 – Debating gender-affirming care and Medicaid (Ayanna Pressley audio & reaction)
• 22:34 – Interview: Bill Roggio on ISIS, terrorism funding, and Syria
• 37:17 – Call-in: Tariffs and trade policy debate

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Tone & Style

• The episode balances serious, critical commentary with energetic engagement and opinionated banter, maintaining a conversational—sometimes confrontational—style that both informs and entertains.
• Listeners are directly addressed and invited to contribute, keeping the show fast-moving and interactive.
• The expert segment with Bill Roggio adds depth and specificity, while the open lines segment reflects the populist, crowd-sourcing spirit central to the show.

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For further information on terrorism and global security, visit:

• longwarjournal.org (via Bill Roggio)

Listener Line: 800-282-2882

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This summary covers the substantive content of Hour 2, skipping non-content sections, ads, and promotional material.

Transcript

[Brett Winterble]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Clay Travis]

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[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Buck Sexton]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whim Sound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $299. From quiet mornings to lively holiday gatherings, WinSound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whimsound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound that's W I I M S O U N D Buck Sexton here.

[Brett Winterble]

And the entire Clay and Buck show.

[Clay Travis]

Wish you and your family a warm Christmas season and a joyful new year he's heard on WBT in Charlotte, North Carolina. Please welcome Brett Winterbol, filling in for Clay and Buck.

[Brett Winterble]

No place I'd rather be than with each and every one of you on this program. It's great to be with you. I'm in for Clay and Buck, as you heard. And you can reach out to us. Everything is fair game today. 800-282-2882 is the telephone number. It is great to be here. One of the things that the progressives like to do is they like to try to sneak things in that shouldn't be part of policy.

[Bill Roggio]

Okay.

[Brett Winterble]

And what I see and what I hear from so many people is that just feels like we are paddling upwind and all this kind of stuff. No, you're not. We're actually winning a lot more than you might be realizing. So let me go over to one particular location. It's the Epoch Times, and they have a piece that I think is really interesting because it is something that happened in California. Federal judge strikes down California's policies hiding Gender switches from Parents Now, I had to read that like two or three times before I understood what they were actually saying. But the permanent injunction includes language that bars any employee in California's education system from misleading a parent. This is California federal judge on December 22nd. Just yesterday, while we were all talking about the things that we're going to do, ruled against the California policies that prevent parents from learning their children. Gender switches. Sounds like a piece of mechanical material. But no, what this is is kid goes to school, kid identifies as a different person than what they are when they go to school, then they come back home, et cetera, et cetera. Now, you cannot find that out. You're not allowed to find that out if you're a parent, because all you are is the parent. The state is really excited about all that sort of stuff. And you know why that is, right? It's because it's gonna mean there's gonna be more money pushed into the system and all that sort of stuff. U.S. district Court Judge Roger T. Benitez entered a permanent injunction that bars officials from enforcing the policies. The state's desire to protect vulnerable children from harassment and discrimination is laudable, wrote Benitez in a 52 page decision. But he said the parental exclusion policies create a trifecta of harm. They harm the child who needs the parental guidance. The possibility mental health intervention to determine if the incongruence is organic or whether it's the result of bullying, peer pressure, or a fleeting impulse. They harm the parents by depriving them of the long recognized 1413th Amendment right to care, guide and make health care decisions for their children and by substantially burdening many parents. First amendment right to train their children in their sincerely held beliefs. And finally, they harm the teachers who are compelled to violate the sincerely held beliefs and a parent's rights by forcing them to conceal information they feel is critical for the welfare of the student. That is a totally smart, obvious take, but in California, everything is upside down among these sorts of policies. Among the policies are rules prohibiting teachers, prohibiting teachers from telling parents when their children begin going by a different name and gender, and forcing teachers to use those new names and pronouns when parents are not around. I know there are tons of teachers listening to the Clam Buck show. I know there are tons of people who are, who have to try to keep everything straight in their mind because, well, let's say you're in a, a big time school and, and you've got, I don't know, how many classes do you teach? Maybe four classes, five classes, six, whatever it is. And you got 30 kids in each, so you have to be responsible for like 180, 200 kids. You got to know whose gender is what. And this is that. And the other thing is this.

[Clay Travis]

Come on.

[Brett Winterble]

Lawyers for the state said the policies were part of providing a safe learning environment, including making sure that children can learn without the fear of being outed to their parents before they're ready. So let's take a hypothetical here for a second. Right now, what do we have? We have the holiday coming up, we got Christmas coming up, new New Year's, you're out for winter break, all that sort of stuff. So if you go to school and you identify as a completely different person and then you come home at night, you, you, you do that whole sort of thing where you, you just kind of do what you're doing, how are you being, how are you being protected during the period in which you are not at school for the two, three weeks of the holidays? How do you, how do you do this? It seems to be a undue burden for the teachers to have to carry that weight, number one. And number two, to see what these kids are doing when they're not at school. That interest is too broad and not narrowly tired, tailored to respect parental rights, the judge said. In articulating their interest, the state defendants completely ignore the fact that parents of students possess a free exercise right to direct a child's religious teaching. The permanent injunction includes language that bars any employee in California's education system from misleading the parent or guardian of a minor child in the education system about their child's gender presentation at school, whether by directly lying to the parent, preventing the parent from accessing educational records of the child, or using a different set of preferred pronouns and names when speaking with the parents. That is being used at the school. By the way, the attorneys who brought this for the Thomas More Society are representing teachers in the case, and they are celebrating the ruling. Teachers don't want to be a part of this. By and large. The regular teacher, the average teacher does not want to have to go and deal with gender pronouns or, or anything like that at all. They don't want to be a part of that because it makes them feel obviously that they're deceiving the parents, the first teachers. And that, ladies and gentlemen, shouldn't, shouldn't be the factor. What, what should be happening here is you raise your kid, you may have some trauma, you may have some drama, you may have some of that, but it's not a public educational institution's responsibility to do this sort of stuff. I, I would love to, to hear from any of the teachers who were out on break if you've had to deal with this sort of stuff. This is a very important thing. And this, this ruling that, that the judge put through is, Is significant in a very big way because you're not lying to your, to, to. To your. The teacher. The teachers are not lying to the parents. What happens if the, if the person who's identifying with a different name or, or dressing differently gets injured at school and suddenly you come over to go render aid and the parents are called and suddenly they're wearing different clothes and their name is different and all that sort of. To me, it's, It's. I think it's profoundly unfair to the teachers. There's a whole lot of issues you can grapple with when it comes to teaching. But, but the fact of the matter is this sort of stuff is, is. Is a real, real tough set of circumstances that they shouldn't have to deal with in that regard. And I can tell you that. I can tell you that because I know people who are teachers. I'm close to people who are teachers. They want to go in and they want to teach their subjects. They don't want to have to go in and, you know, do the thing that these, that these middle schoolers, maybe elementary schoolers, high schoolers want to do. That's. That's way out of the jurisdiction of educating people. At least that's my, that's my take. Maybe, maybe you think I'm wrong, and that's totally okay. You can Absolutely. Say, Brett, you're out of your mind. You don't know what you're talking about. But I do know and I understand teachers have it pretty tough. I know, I know you get nice mugs at the end of the, of the holidays. That's very nice. You get a couple of, you might get yourself a little, a little, you know, Starbucks card or something like that. But to force these teachers to have to do this kind of stuff, that is just onerous, onerous in the extreme, as they would say. All right, my name is Brett Waterbowl. I'm in for Clay and Buck. Our telephone number, if you'd like to opine. Everything is fair game between now and the end of the program. 800-282-2882. We're going to be joined later on on the program on this hour with Bill Raggio. I'm very curious to see what he's thinking about in the world of terrorism, especially with Bondi and all that sort of stuff. We want to certainly get his thoughts. I'm Brett Waterbowl. You're listening to the Clay and Buck show.

[Clay Travis]

Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Mic drops. That never sounded so good. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know? Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PC Mag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000. This is where mindset comes in. Someone will be eliminated.

Pressure is coming down.

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To big savings is that big blue envelope in your mailbox. Valpak. It's brimming with deals from big name brands and your favorite local spots. Dining services, stuff you're already buying. All for less. And you could score $100 or other instant prizes just for opening it. Or save even faster with mobile coupons you can use right [e-mail] Valpak there's definitely something in it for you.

The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep. This winter, show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider usskiandsnowboard.org and join today.

[Buck Sexton]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim sound. That's W I I M S O U n d welcome back.

[Brett Winterble]

I'm Brett Waterbowl in for Clay and Buck. Great to be with you. Merry Christmas. I love this time of the year. It's incredible. It just, it makes me so happy, you know. It doesn't make me happy. I'll tell you what doesn't make me happy. We were just talking about schools and, and, and identity politics and all this sort of stuff that's a part of the conversation. Let's not, let's not overlook what the left wants to do, okay? And I'm gonna do this for you right here, right now. This is going to be cut number seven. Still, still on the sort of gender affirming thing that we were talking about. Cut number seven. This is Representative Ayanna Pressley from Massachusetts letter RIP7.

[Ayanna Pressley]

Every parent wants to keep their child safe, wants their child to grow without pain, to sleep through the night without fear or suffering. But when our children are growing up, it is inevitable that they will need medical care. A fall from a bike, A broken arm on the playground. Parents rush into the doctor's office. They bandage scraped knees. They hold their child's hand and wipe away tears while their pediatrician lays out a plan. And in these moments, that urgent question on that parent's mind is, what does my child need to be okay? A broken bone, Asthma, Gender, dysphoria, diabetes. Whatever the presenting issue is, a treatment plan takes shape.

[Brett Winterble]

Hang on. For some families, what your children need to just stop it. How do you stack that that way? How do you do that? How do you say diabetes A scraped knee, gender dysphoria, some other thing. You just package that in the middle of that. Like, that's. See, this is. This is why people get so frustrated with the progressive left, because they're like, hey, you know, I mean, look, maybe you're trying to get some reproductive treatment, and then all of a sudden, now you're gonna go and do this other thing. And then, by the way, yeah, we're just gonna go ninth month. We'll just abort the baby. And then you're like, what. Wait, what was that last one you said? This. This. If the left decided they just wanted to come out and they wanted to speak to a specific position, that they want to do, that, that would be one thing. But you can't take this. Can you re. Fire that up? I'm sorry. I just. That. That was such a weird transition. No pun intended, but you know what I'm saying. Can you just give me this one more time? Mike? I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Ayanna Pressley]

Every parent wants to keep their child safe, wants their child to grow without pain, to sleep through the night without fear or suffering. But when our children are growing up, it is inevitable that they will need medical care. A fall from a bike, a broken arm on the playground. Parents rush into the doctor's office. They bandage scraped knees. They hold their child's hand and wipe away tears while their pediatrician lays out a plan. And in these moments, that urgent question on that parent's mind is, what does my child need to be okay? A broken bone, Asthma, Gender, dysphoria, diabetes, Whatever the presenting issue is, a treatment plan takes shape. For some families. What their children need to be okay is access to gender affirming care. Care that is safe, evidence based, and recognized as essential by every major medical association. Care that for some children, is the difference between despair and hope, between isolation and community, between surviving and thriving. And yet, today, we are debating a bill that would tell parents on Medicaid that their child's pain is unworthy of care, that their doctor's judgment does not matter, that politicians know better than parents sitting in exam rooms. Cole, a young person from Massachusetts wrote to me and said transgender people deserve the same chance to thrive and live fulfilling lives as everyone else.

[Brett Winterble]

Okay, the operative word in that conversation was Medicaid. So we're going to do Medicaid transitions. Is that what I heard? I think that's what I heard. I'm pretty sure that that's what I heard, that she's talking about Medicaid, meaning the federal government is going to do transgender surgeries at the same time. You've got people, homeless veterans, people who can't get eyeglasses. What is that? What is shit she talking about? For the life of me, I can't figure it out. Maybe you can decode it. Maybe you know what it is, because I sure as heck do not know what she's talking about. I didn't know that Medicaid was for gender transformation. I'll have to look into that. Can you help me with my tennis elbow? No, absolutely not. But. But what are we doing now? You see how this is going. You give an inch, they take a mile. You give them a mile, they take two miles. This, ladies and gentlemen, is not the way to run a health care system. We have to do better. We must do better. And frankly, we will. I'm Brett Wood. And I am Brett Witterball. It's a pleasure, pleasure to be with you here today on the Call in Buck program. It's a great, great platform. I love all the feedback we're getting. It's really awesome. And by the way, if you want to opine, 800-282-2882, it is my pleasure to welcome to the program guy who I always like talking to. It's Bill Raggio from the foundation for the Defense of Democracies. And of course, obviously, longwortjournal.org Bill, thanks so much. Very Merry Christmas to you and thanks for making time for us today.

[Bill Roggio]

Brett, always a pleasure. Merry Christmas to you and to Clay and Buck and to all the listeners.

[Brett Winterble]

So happy New Year. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think 26 is going to be a very momentous year. So let me take us back about a week. This horrible attack that took place at Bondi beach in Australia. Two guys working together, father, son, decide that they are going to do their thing for isis, trying to murder as many people as they can, specifically targeting Jews at the Hanukkah celebration. What is the state of this fight against isis? It seems to be metastasizing in some ways. Can you give this audience sort of a sense of what it is that, that we're seeing and how it is that we have to deal with this eminent threat?

[Bill Roggio]

Yeah, Brett. So look, despite proclamations from both the Biden and Trump administration that the Islamic State has been defeated, I think what we witnessed at that attack in Bondi, the horrific attack, is an indication that they're not these, these two fathers and team, they. They went to the Philippines. Well, they decided when to carry out an attack. The son had ties to ISIS that was brought up in or discovered in 2019. Yet the Australians decided he wasn't a threat. That I guess a big oops there. They traveled to the Philippines apparently for straining. I think what you, what we witnessed on those videos was they, they had some proficiency. Look, it's difficult to become a proficient two man fire team, particularly with the limited weapons. They had shotguns and a rifle, but it was enough to kill 15 people and wound scores more and create the chaos that we all witnessed. The Islamic State isn't defeated. You know, look, people thought the Islamic in Southeast Asia was an afterthought and that clearly isn't the case. If there, if these individuals did indeed go to the Philippines for training, which I believe they did, the Australians believe they have as well. Despite denials from the Philippine government, it shows that even though these groups aren't highly active, they maintain capacity to recruit, to indoctrinate, to train and to execute attacks. And that's. We have to keep in mind that just because we want these, this war on terror to be over, doesn't mean that the jihadists themselves, who clearly don't think it's over, they get, they have a word, you know, they get the last word and they got their word in, in Bondi and this won't be the last attack.

[Brett Winterble]

When you, when you look at this and you look at the way ISIS is operating, I'm looking towards, you know, down the road and the horizon and things like that. How, how do they supply themselves? How do they put this stuff together? Obviously we know that ISIS is an incredibly dangerous organization broadly, but the cells that are making up these attacks, whether a lone wolf or, you know, other people working that way, how do they get funded? How do they get the, the, the approaches that they're using to, to try to kill as many people as they can.

[Bill Roggio]

Yeah, so the Islamic State, you know, look, it's very active in Africa, in West Africa, in the Sahel, in East Africa. They even have a cadre in Somalia that is spreading cash to other theaters. They make, they raise their money via, in areas they may control, they'll tax, they'll take, you know, from businesses they demand or payment. Basically think of it as a tithe from the people where they're under control. They run criminal enterprises, they're moving money via either crypto or hawala, which are basically Islamic banks where it's, you know, complicated. But just think of it as like, you know, a word of mouth, Western union promissory way of exchanging money and that is used to fund their operations, to execute operations. I mean, they're certainly not devoid of individuals who have been in combat that can provide training. For instance, in the Philippines, where this area in the Philippines, there's several groups, there's Abu Sayyaf group, which part of it's loyal to Al Qaeda and part of it's loyal to the Islamic State, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. All these groups, they may be down. This is the problem with the entire war on terror is we want these groups to be defeated because they're not openly controlling territory.

[Brett Winterble]

Right.

[Bill Roggio]

But they exist on a cellular level and they continue to they take advantage of the of the situations. And in the case of this, they it looks like they grabbed two individuals who are who had proclivity to launch an attack, and they aided them in carrying out that attack.

[Brett Winterble]

Visiting with Bill Raggio from LongWarJournal.org and of foundation for the Defense of Democracies on the and Buck show, let me take you to to this scandal that is emerging in Minnesota. And obviously you're familiar with this. You understand you have a large Somali presence in that area. The governor is saying, okay, we we lost a lot of our money. We it's a real problem, 18 billion or 9 billion or whatever that is. I raised this because you talk about hawala and is it impossible that money left Minnesota to go to Somalia to feed some of this sort of effort? Because from what I see from people, whether it's Ilhan Omar or other people, they're saying we have absolutely no connection to terrorism at all. It shouldn't even be talked about. Is that is that a is that a real possibility, BILL oh, not only.

[Bill Roggio]

Is it a possibility, it's a probability. It's a strong probability when once that money is being transferred overseas, again, these groups, they have a way of either extorting that money or there may be individuals and I can't you know, look, there's a large Somali cadre from the United States that has supported Shabab, which is Al Qaeda's branch in in Somalia somewhere, four or five Americans who served as suicide bombers.

[Brett Winterble]

Yes.

[Bill Roggio]

Inside of Somalia. They came from the Minneapolis area. I remember talking to I'm not going to say who, but an individual who knew a quite a lot about this over a decade ago was warning me about these problems about problems, money being transferred, individuals were either sympathetic or supportive. So I you know, to claim that not a single dime of that money that was stolen from the people of Minnesota and I would imagine, I don't know, federal funds are involved.

[Brett Winterble]

Yeah.

[Bill Roggio]

But if not Then people in the United States, you know, your tax dollars at work here, it's highly likely that some of, I'm not going to say $9 billion or 19 or $18 billion went to support your bob, but if it's 1% of it or if it's 10% of it, that's just a lot of that money goes a long way in a poor country like Somalia.

[Brett Winterble]

I'm going to tie this together with something else that I think is important. So you were familiar with what happened at Brown University, the shooting and that sort of stuff that, that, that was happening. And we know it's not. The guy who did this wasn't, as far as we know, an ISIS guy or anything like that. But do the ISIS fighters, do these people pick up ideas, looking at things like this, where you either have a fifth column that's spending time on, on, on elite campuses where they can operate or, or they decide that they want to go and attack very soft targets like universities and things like that. Do they go to school and all that sort of stuff, Bill?

[Bill Roggio]

Yeah, they're certainly watching. You know, there's not a lot difference in the attack, you know, at least from the tactical level, from the, you know, the employment of that attack between what happened in Bondi and what happened in Brown. Right. An individual gets a hold of weapons, is radicalized in some way. So they see this and they're looking for individuals that they can recruit, and they recognize that if you can get that person access, don't even have to be weapons. It doesn't have to be firearms. It could be a knife. Between night attacks in Europe and the United States.

[Brett Winterble]

Yep.

[Bill Roggio]

Ramming attacks, they've happened here, you know, so they're, they watch and see how other individuals or groups that may not be tied to Islamic terrorist organizations, but they're going to mirror those tactics. And part of me wonders how much, like, you know, the shooter in Brown is mimicking attacks from the Islamic State, or is it the other way around? But, yeah, they certainly watch and learn to try to discover our weaknesses and what they can do and how to exploit them.

[Brett Winterble]

Okay, final question for you. Very generous with your time. I always like talking to you. In our last two minutes, where are the things that we should be paying close attention to? What's popping up on your, on your radar?

[Bill Roggio]

Yeah, I would say the attack in Syria that, where two American soldiers were killed, and this was by a member of the Syrian security forces. The centcom and the US Government, the Trump administration insist that this was the Islamic State. The Islamic State never carried out, never claimed credit for this attack. Keep in mind, if they gave a US soldier a hangnail, they would claim credit for it on their propaganda outlets. Not a word from them. And yet our response when this attack is carried out by a government that used to be, supposedly used to be part of Al Qaeda. It's, it's comprised nearly solely of Islamist groups, many of them linked to Al Qaeda or directly reporting to them. And our response is to, to target the Islamic State. There's some cover is being provided here. Remember that Tom Barack, the envoy to Syria, said that there is no plan B for Syria if we don't support Shara, the president of Syria, who used to be Al Qaeda's leader in Syria, that we, you know, there is no. If we don't support him, we don't have any other options. Meanwhile, he's going to get away with killing, you know, his people, killing his jihadists in his rank and file, killing Americans. And our response is to go after the Islamic State, which, by the way, is the enemy of the Syrian government, which is responsible for killing Americans.

[Brett Winterble]

Where do people go to get more information on what you do?

[Bill Roggio]

Yeah, you can go to longwarjournal.org thanks so much, Bill.

[Brett Winterble]

It's a pleasure to be with you. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and let's get together again next year, my friend. I appreciate you.

[Bill Roggio]

Same to you, my friend. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year to all.

[Brett Winterble]

Absolutely. That's Bill Raggio. I'm Brett Wooderbol. I'm in for Clay and Buck today to 800. 282. 282. Back after this news you can count.

[Clay Travis]

On, and some laughs, too. Clay, Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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Pressure is coming down.

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The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider.usski and snowboard.org and join today.

[Buck Sexton]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Whimsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound that's W I I M S o u n d Clay Travis with.

[Brett Winterble]

The Clay and Buck Show.

[Clay Travis]

Wishing you and your family a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year.

[Brett Winterble]

And welcome back to the Clay and Buck Show. It's Brett Waterbowl in four Clay and Buck, 800-282-2882. We've got a couple people on hold. Let's jump out and talk to Mike in Minnesota. Line one. Welcome to the show.

[Caller Mike]

Hi, welcome. Merry Christmas, Brent.

[Brett Winterble]

Thank you.

[Caller Mike]

Yeah, I just, I'm kind of upset how conservatives are just on board with all these Trump tariffs. And I just heard the news clip where Trump or the White House just praised how all the economic gains are due to his tariffs or a lot of it is. And I mean tariffs are just a tax on top of all the other taxes we pay.

[Bill Roggio]

Nothing.

[Caller Mike]

Nothing good can ever come out of tariffs. And it's. Yeah, it's just. I don't know how. I'm just, like, disappointed that so many conservatives are fooled and have bought into this.

[Brett Winterble]

Well, if you have a tariff, right. If so, like, let's say you, you exercise a tariff and I exercise a tariff, and you have to pay X amount, and I have to pay X amount. The way to get to a fair position is for both of us to drop the tariff. Right. I mean, isn't that kind of, kind of how this is supposed to work?

[Caller Mike]

Let's say, let's say we trade with Germany and they impose tariffs on their people for imports. They're hurting themselves when we impose tariffs. We're just taxing Americans that be kind of foolish. It's not, you know, we need free trade, not this fair or balanced trade, which. Fair. Balanced trade means big government protectionism where the government manages economic activity.

[Brett Winterble]

Right.

[Caller Mike]

Because the thing is, it's a huge myth. We don't lose a penny on the trade deficit. The word deficit confuses a lot of people. Protectionist thinks we lose money on trade deficits.

[Brett Winterble]

But if the United States, if the United States. Right. If Donald Trump goes over and talks to the, to the chancellor in Germany and says, hey, we want to cut a deal, we're not going to hit you with tariffs, you're not going to hit us with tariffs, then it just goes away. The reason why they erect the tariffs to begin with is because it's to try to claw back what the other side is, is taking from us. So if we decide that we're going to just have tariffs, then everybody's going to have to pay the vig to get into the club. But if we all agree to not do that, then everything is cool. We don't. We don't do that. There are countries who I can't think of very many of them that are very aggressive towards the United States at this stage of the game, because we have been essentially the people who are saying, yeah, we are going to be. It's all reciprocal, right? It's, it's. If you're 20%, then we're going to be 20%. Or if you're 20%, we're going to be 40%, then they're going to give us 60%, then we're going to go to 80%. Our market is such an important place. The marketplace that we run is an incredible machine. Everybody wants to trade here. And so we, we can, we can knock back all of these tariffs, and they don't ever exist. Again, as long as everybody's playing ball. But if they're not playing ball, we have. We have to hit them with it. Like, why should we give anybody a free ride? It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Caller Mike]

When we impose reciprocal tariffs, we're hurting ourselves. That's where the disagreement is.

[Brett Winterble]

Right. But we're getting. But they're stealing from us.

[Caller Mike]

Charge 20%.

[Brett Winterble]

Okay. Then they don't get to sell nothing. Then they don't get to sell here. It's the impact. It makes total sense to me. I appreciate the call. Thank you very much. We've got another great hour straight ahead. Taking your phone calls and of course, don't forget Father Bill Nicholas is going to be joining us right around the corner. You're listening to the Clay and Buck show. Our our number 800-282-2882. I'm gonna tell you you a special story in this next hour, one that nobody knows. You got to hear this. It is so great to be with you on this day before Christmas Eve. I'm Brett Woodble. We've got plenty more straight ahead. Enjoy this time. Back after this.

[Clay Travis]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptop tops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Podcast Advertiser]

10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000. This is where mindset comes in. Someone will be eliminated.

Pressure is coming down.

Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th. Watch the trailer on trainergames.com your ticket.

To big savings is that big blue envelope in your mailbox. Valpak. It's brimming with deals from big name brands and your favorite local spots. Dining services, stuff you're already buying. All for less. And you could score $100 or other instant prizes just for opening it. Or save even faster with mobile coupons you can use right [e-mail] Valpak there's definitely something in it for you.

The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now. You can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider.usski and snowboard.org and join today.

[Buck Sexton]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8 inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just 299. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound that's W I I m S O u n d this is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.