Hour 2 - School Security and Mental Health

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Hour 2 – School Security and Mental Health
Date: August 29, 2025 | Host: iHeartPodcasts
Guests: Alex Berenson (author, journalist)

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Overview

This hour of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show centers on the political and social fallout from a recent school shooting in Minneapolis. The hosts examine issues surrounding school security, the role of mental health and drug use in violence, and the media's coverage—especially concerning the shooter's transgender identity. The episode features a long-form, in-depth conversation with journalist Alex Berenson on the links between drugs (especially cannabis, SSRIs), psychosis, youth health, and public safety.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Minneapolis School Shooting: Media, Gender, and Accountability

• Main Issues:
  • Media outlets are, according to the hosts, misidentifying the shooter's gender for ideological reasons.
  • The role of the shooter's parents, the lack of cooperation with investigators, and potential culpability.
  • The trans identity of the shooter and hormone treatments are discussed as potential contributors to mental illness.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Clay Travis:
    "They are worried about misgendering, and as a result, they aren't even talking about the trans element here... They changed the gender of this kid at 17 years old. I think we should be talking in earnest. How many different drugs was this kid on? How screwed up did that potentially make the mental capacity of the kid, and how much did it exacerbate what is likely mental illness already to be suddenly flooding the body with hormones?" [06:08]
  • Buck Sexton:
    "That anyone would take even a second to worry about the courtesy of the preferred pronouns of this maniac is itself maniacal. It is absolutely unacceptable." [08:29]

2. Mental Health, Gun Access, and School Security

• Main Issues:
  • Parents' responsibilities in recognizing and addressing mental illness in their children, particularly regarding access to firearms.
  • Critique of calls for mental health legislation ("new laws") as ineffective or potentially infringing on rights.
  • Emphasis on "hardening soft targets": physically securing schools and employing armed guards.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Clay Travis:
    "If you are a parent, also understand that your individual kid may not need to be in possession of a gun... If they have mental illness or they have depression or they have some form of psychoactive issue that you are aware of as a parent, they shouldn't be around firearms." [09:24]
  • Buck Sexton:
    "What's the law? You mean they're going to try to take guns from veterans who have PTSD? Right. Because that's going to happen in blue states... It'll be used as a tool, weaponized immediately and right away." [13:02]

3. “What Should Be Done” — Policy and Practicality

• Focus on real, practical safety measures versus political talking points.
• Proposals to place armed security in all schools—public and private—drawing on comparisons to other countries (e.g., veterans securing Israeli schools and places of worship).
• Criticism of vague political rhetoric that doesn't specify actionable solutions.
• Deterrence logic: visible and possible concealed armed presence changes the calculation for would-be shooters.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Buck Sexton:
    "All security measures are imperfect on their own, but that doesn't mean they're not yet useful. And it's certainly useful. I would even advocate for a program that says, look, why does concealed carry work so well... the bad guy has to think somebody here might have a gun and that changes the calculation." [16:13]
  • Clay Travis:
    "Every single public and private school in America should have security guards armed... I don't understand how this isn't standard operating procedure." [14:26]

4. Guest Segment: Alex Berenson on Drugs, Psychosis, and Public Health

• Hormones and Minors:

  • Concerns about medicalization of gender transition in minors and unknown long-term health effects.
  • Ethical and public health questions about hormone use in youth, especially with mental health vulnerabilities.

• Cannabis Use and Mental Illness:

  • Discussion of Berenson’s book, Tell Your Children, and growing evidence that high-THC marijuana use is correlated with increased psychosis and schizophrenia, particularly in youth.
  • Cannabis seen as more dangerous to mental health than commonly believed, especially as a substitute for more regulated substances like alcohol or tobacco.
  • Emphasizes that while alcohol is more directly lethal, cannabis is more damaging to brain health and may contribute to violence in a subset of users.

• SSRIs and Psychiatric Medication:

  • Pushback against the political right’s blanket demonization of SSRIs; distinction between drugs of abuse and necessary prescription medications.
  • Acknowledgment that while SSRIs may be overprescribed, for some with genuine mental health disorders, they are vital and not recreational.

• Advice for Parents:

  • Warns that "there’s no free lunch" with recreational drugs—THC, Adderall, etc.—all come with costs, and the narrative that cannabis is harmless or medicinal is misleading, especially for teens and young adults.

• Policy Imminence:

  • Berenson urges President Biden not to reschedule (i.e., reduce restrictions on) cannabis under federal law, arguing such a move is driven by industry rather than public health.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Alex Berenson:
    "Cannabis is less physically dangerous than alcohol... but cannabis is more dangerous to your brain than alcohol... People are more dangerous to the people around them in general than somebody who's using alcohol." [33:31]
  • Alex Berenson:
    "There's no free lunch. OK? A drug that gets you high, that alters your relationships to the world, you're gonna pay a price for it... It is coming. That's what I would say to them. That's what parents should tell their kids." [39:44]
  • Alex Berenson:
    "The distinction isn’t between a drug you prescribe and a drug that’s not prescribed. The distinction is between drugs that get you high and drugs that don’t get you high." [38:05]
  • Alex Berenson (on policy):
    "The President should go with his gut... he should keep cannabis as a Schedule 1 drug and he should listen to people who don’t have money in this." [46:20]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Main Minneapolis shooting and media coverage – 02:29 to 08:49
• Parental responsibility & firearm access – 08:49 to 11:16
• Policy rhetoric & school security ideas – 12:01 to 17:30
• Listener calls: practical limitations of security – 23:11 to 24:15
• Interview: Alex Berenson — hormones, cannabis, youth mental health – 25:34 to 40:33
• SSRIs, medication, and public perception – 36:06 to 39:12
• Closing: Berenson on policy & President Biden’s cannabis decision – 44:52 to 46:28

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Memorable Moments

• Media & Gender Identity Discussion:
  • Clay and Buck argue forcefully that legacy media is misrepresenting facts to maintain ideological narratives.
• Armed Security in Schools:
  • The hosts reiterate their practical solution: “Every single public and private school in America should have security guards armed. I don't understand how this isn't standard operating procedure.” [14:26]
• Alex Berenson’s Clarity on Risks:
  • Berenson’s summaries on the dangers of high THC and the social consequences of drug liberalization are clear and firm.
• Quick Parental Advice:
  • “Don't make the mistake of thinking cannabis and THC is medicine... These drugs are addictive. They change your brain chemistry and you will pay.” [39:44]

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Takeaways

• The core focus is a critique of media narratives, an emphasis on parental responsibility and mental health in mass shootings, and detailed discussions about the public health impacts of drugs ranging from prescription SSRIs to recreational cannabis.
• The hosts’ stance combines skepticism toward mental-health-based gun laws, strong advocacy for school security through armed guards, and a parental, almost paternalistic concern for youth mental health and safety.
• Guest Alex Berenson expounds at length on his research, pushing for caution in drug policy and honest public information, especially as legislative decisions on cannabis loom.

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For more engaging and informative conversations like this hour, find The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show on the iHeartRadio app or your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

This is an iheart podcast.

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[Clay Travis]

Now you can stream Fox News Live on the Fox One app. Stay on top of breaking news and the biggest stories live as they happen, all from the FOX voices you trust, bringing you the coverage you won't find anywhere else.

[Buck Sexton]

Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one we live for live streaming now.

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[Clay Travis]

Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show Appreciate all of you hanging out with us, our friend Alex Berenson gonna join us at the bottom of the hour. Then Mary Katherine Ham in the third hour. Two hours left of the week. We appreciate all of you hanging out with us as we are rolling into Labor Day weekend. I know many of you either already on the roads or potentially going to be traveling. Worth mentioning that we are at a four year low in gas prices. You have to go all the way back TO I believe 2021 in still the Democrats are not driving on the interstate era or if they were, they were wearing masks in their cars by themselves to when the price of gas was this affordable. So if you factor in inflation as well, which unfortunately Joe Biden brought us, it's even better because the average cost of goods have gone up substantially. Yet gas is cheaper now than at any point in the next four years. And this is primarily going to be a driving weekend for a lot of people out there. I know people also flying. I'm going to be driving a decent distance and so many of you are as well. So just a good sign there. And as we move into winter I would expect for prices to come down again as usually you see a bit of a surge in gas prices during the summer because so many people are traveling. Cracker Barrel, by the way, is in full on retreat. We may have some fun with that before all is said and done. But I do think it's worth us continuing to share with you some of the basic lies that are being shared with so many people out there relating to what happened in Minneapolis, most places. Still not really addressing the fact that this was a trans terrorist that took these lives of these innocent kids in Minneapolis. And in fact they're not even being honest about the gender of the person who did this. This was a man pretending to be a woman. CNN is worried about misgendering the shooter such that they keep referring and so does New York Times, so does the Washington Post. They keep referring to this shooter as a her. And this is what it sounds like. They won't even tell you who this person was in the context of their own gender or that the trans identity might have been involved. Here is cut 11 what you heard on CNN. This is Andrew McCabe.

[Commercial Voice]

Listen for the mother to not even return to the state to answer law enforcement questions to try to provide some assistance. I'm sure she's grieving for her daughter, but this is, yeah, it's a really perverse and strange element of this story. It's inexplicable to me at this point.

[Clay Travis]

I mean you can hear him pause there.

[Buck Sexton]

Inexplicable.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. He says daughter. They are, they are doing this, Buck, on msnbc, New York Times. They are refusing to say this was a boy. They are claiming that it's a girl. They're saying that this, these parents have lost a daughter, meaning the killer. They are worried about misgendering, and as a result, they aren't even talking about the trans element here. Now, I think the parent discussion should be a part of this because they changed the gender of this kid at 17 years old. I think we should be talking in earnest. How many different drugs was this kid on? How screwed up did that potentially make the mental capacity of the kid, and how much did it exacerbate what is likely mental illness already to be suddenly flooding the body with hormones? Buck, here's something I was thinking about last night as I was doing some prep when I got back home late last night. And I know we've touched on it a little bit, but I feel like it's almost verboten to even discuss what is the health impact long term going to be for these trans people as they enter into their 50s, their 60s and 70s, and start to age and have real health problems, as most people do as they age. When you're talking about people with open wounds that are constantly flooding their body with hormones, is there any way these people are going to have remotely normal lifespans? It's like you're not allowed to discuss it, but some of these people are so young when they got this done that we haven't really dealt with. Hey, what happens when you're 65 and you had trans surgery? These people are going to die decades younger and earlier than they otherwise would have. And with the ones that they're starting at 13 and 14, I mean, their bodies are never going to fully develop. Their bones are not going to. I just get angrier the more I think about this.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, it's. It's horrible what has gone on. And part of the problem is that a lot of damage has already been done. And so the people that are involved in that damage are very unlikely to ever admit what has gone on.

[Clay Travis]

Right? Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, on the, on the medical side of things and the fact that you. I honestly, I hadn't heard that sound bite yet. So the fact that this is being done where you have people saying that a dog, that they. That the parents of the shooter lost a daughter. This is crazy talk.

[Clay Travis]

Yes, yes.

[Buck Sexton]

This is crazy. This is not acceptable. This is not something we go along with. It was A crazy guy who killed children and tried to kill a whole lot more. Remember this individual, this, this mass shooter, it's a horrible tragedy that he killed an 8 year old and I believe an 8 year old and a 10 year old at prayer in a church or walking into a church to pray. This person with the guns that he had there and the fact that it was an undefended soft target, it could have been so much worse in terms of the casualties and people were hit and they thankfully survived quick action by the first responders and by, you know, emergency rooms in the area to save lives. But Clay, that, that anyone would take even a second to worry about the courtesy of the preferred pronouns of this maniac is itself maniacal. It is absolutely unacceptable.

[Clay Travis]

And remember, this is the former acting director of the FBI. So you would think of anyone out there, if you are an investigator, you would think that you would want to stick to the facts way more than anybody else. And the facts are this was a boy trying to identify as a girl. The way that he hesitated there and the fact that he actually pointed out that the mom is not cooperating with authorities is all very strange because what it would suggest is that maybe she knew that her son was. I don't see how she could not knew that her son was a potential threat to everyone. And so far she is not talking because she is afraid that she might get charged in relationship to the shooting because somehow this crazy person had access to guns. And let me just reiterate this all the time, you can strongly believe in the second amendment and if you are a parent, also understand that your individual kid may not need to be in possession of a gun. And I don't mean that because you're worried about them shooting up other places or killing other people. I mean your kid, if they have mental illness or they have depression or they have some form of psychoactive issue that you are aware of as a parent, they shouldn't be around firearms. Like this has nothing to do. I get so fired up about this because I've got three boys, Buck. I just don't believe that in any of these mass shooting situations there weren't tons of clues that these parents saw and they just pretended that it wasn't there and they let their kids remain in possession of or in ownership of firearms. Right. And so I look at this. This mom is hiding, it sounds like from investigators not participating in the investigation. I think it's probably going to come out that she knew her son was a threat both to himself and to others. And she just pretended it was going to go away. I think that's what's going to come out also. It's not going to surprise you, but I wanted to play this. The WNBA coach in Minneapolis, she has decided to weigh in and she says, hey, we can't tell kids anything positive because we don't care about them. This is woke WNBA nonsense, but I wanted to play it for you, too. This is what you might be hearing if you were watching CNN or msnbc.

[WNBA Coach (Guest Clip)]

It's such an indictment of our society and our lack of regard for life. There are things that we can do about it and we know, but for some reason, as Americans, we value something different. It's sickening. Sad for the kids. Sad for the kids to grow up like this. Sad for kids to walk through the door and not know what's going to happen. Hearts go out to. Obviously, the. I've lost kids that are hurt, teachers that have to go through this, families that drop their kid off of school. Hearts. Hearts go out to them. The sad thing is we can't sit here and tell them that help is on the way because we're not going to do a damn thing about it.

[Clay Travis]

Okay? And she's not talking about doing a damn thing about it. As in investigate what's going on with trans. She means she wants all your guns taken. And let's.

[Buck Sexton]

You know, they always want to talk about mental health.

[Alex Berenson]

Should. Should.

[Buck Sexton]

Should being trans bar you from owning or buying and owning a firearm? I mean, the left would absolutely freak out about that. But are we going to. Now they. They want mental health checks. They want. This is why again. Yes, sir. You can all hear the conversation with Trey. I was shocked at Mr. Gowdy's. I thought he misspoke on which.

[Clay Travis]

Which is how we started that interview with me giving him an opportunity to say, upon reflection, because you do live radio, you do live tv, you're not perfect. So I thought he would take back some of what he said. He did. Not at all.

[Buck Sexton]

Not at all. He's like, we need a new law. We need a new law that's going to stop people from. And I say, okay, what's that law going to be? Is, well, if someone's adjudicated mentally. Okay, well, first of all, a lot of places already have something on, you know, that's similar. The problem is adjudicating somebody mentally deficient. The problem is figuring or, you know, mentally incompetent to own basically a danger to themselves and others. What do you think the system that we have is going to catch everybody. That's crazy. Good luck with that one. And what are the. What are the implications, the civil rights and First Amendment and other implications of. Oh, we're deciding that you're crazy, so we're taking away your right. Everybody knows I'm saying this, and a lot of you are already nodding your heads. Oh, you mean they're going to try to take guns from veterans who have ptsd, Right. Because that's going to happen in blue states. You mean they're going to try to take guns from people? You know that. A whole range of things. It'll be used as a tool, weaponized immediately and right away. And so what's the law? And to the point being made here by. What was a W. He said it was a wnba.

[Clay Travis]

Wnba head coach.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, head coach.

[Clay Travis]

Okay.

[Buck Sexton]

They say, we know what to do, say what it is.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

If the whole. The whole point here is that people get to point at their political adversaries and say they're the bad people because they won't do the good thing, what's the good thing? What's the thing that we'll say? You know, yesterday with Trey, I even said, look, we're talking about putting more armed guards at schools. We're talking about maybe having a program that specifically puts veterans who have firearms training to protect our kids, to protect our houses of worship. A lot of places have armed security all over the country. Why not protect our kids? That's something. And that's something that might actually work. Passing a law that. That.

[Alex Berenson]

That what?

[Buck Sexton]

That says if you're the most insane, vile lunatic on the planet, you can't get a gun? Well, yeah, we gotta find out who the insane, vile lunatic is before they shoot everybody. And that's the part of this that they don't even address. They don't even talk about.

[Clay Travis]

I just. Every time this happens, I do not see this as political. Every single public and private school in America should have security guards armed. They are 20, you know, every hour that the kids are there. I don't understand how this isn't standard operating procedure. I've said it. I always think about it in the context of, would I want this for my kids? And if the answer is what? I want it for my kids, almost without exception, my answer for all of you is going to be, I want it for your kids and grandkids, too. My kids, public and private school, have had armed security. I don't understand why the immediate response from this when we look at what we spend and waste dollars on. You ran through the math, basically. I mean, this is $10 billion a year nationwide that we could put in place and say, let's do it. When, when I look at the way that we waste money protecting kids, lives at school, young innocent kids, and letting every bad guy out there know, hey, there's armed security at this school. Because what did we see with Covenant? These, these evil people are doing stakeouts of the schools to see whether or not they're secure. And if they are, maybe it makes them change their minds just a little bit. The bridges is a good example of this. I was talking about this with my wife the other day. You know, they put fences basically higher up on bridges to try to limit, limit suicides. And people drastically do not commit suicide at the same level when they just have to climb up a little bit more over the top of a fence or secure area.

[Buck Sexton]

That's the whole basis of fences as a security system.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Make it harder, slow people down. By the way, true at the border as well.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

I've seen at the border people scaling the fence, but you know what, you see them, it slows them down and then you can arrest them. On the other side, it's not people go, if you have a 10 foot fence, I'll have an 11 foot ladder. Guess who's waiting for you on the other side of that fence? If it's well constructed and it's double layer and there's sensors in place, Border patrol, all security measures are imperfect on their own, but that doesn't mean they're not yet useful. And it's certainly useful. I would even advocate for a program that says, look, why does concealed carry work so well? Clay? And total credit to more guns, less crime. John Lott on this, what you find out is that it's not that everyone has to conceal carry, it's that in places where there is concealed carry, the bad guy has to think somebody here might have a gun and that changes the calculation. Sometimes they do and they go for it anyway and then there's a good guy with a gun there. But on this, in the school system, if you even just had, let's say if a state said, you know what, we're going to have a program, some uniform, some out of, you know, some open carry, some concealed carry changes the calculation for school shooters inherently. And there's no loss of attendant rights. There's no, I'm going to harass people who are good people who haven't done anything. Like that's the part of it that also has to be taken into account.

[Clay Travis]

I wish if we were going to have a conversation nationwide about, that's the one we'd go to. It's the one that I try to push every single time any of these incidents happen. Look, talk with any Israeli citizen these days. They'll tell you peace and quiet's the top priority. No one wants the current conflict in the region to go away more than the average person living in Israel, but there is still a huge demand for security. Your gift to the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews creates new bomb shelters across Israel, necessary supplies for those existing bomb shelters out there. We know, unfortunately, how much all of these shelters are going to be needed. Now is the time to help Israel's most innocent and most vulnerable. To rush your gift, call 888-488 IFCJ. That's 888488 IFCJ. You can go online to IFCJ.org that's IFCJ.org stories of freedom, stories of America. Inspirational stories that unite us time with clay and buck. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Clay Travis]

Now you can stream Fox News Live on the Fox one app. Stay on top of breaking news and the biggest stories live as they happen. All from the Fox voices you trust, bringing you the coverage you won't find anywhere else.

[Buck Sexton]

Start your 7 day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox One for complete terms and conditions. Fox WeLive for live streaming now.

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

And all your biggest workloads right now with zero commitment. Try OCI for free. Head to oracle.comclay that's oracle.comclay hey there.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I'm Mary Kathryn Ham.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz. We've been in political media for a long time.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's why we started Normalely, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor.

[Carol Markowitz]

We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass, you're our kind of people. Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday.

[Carol Markowitz]

And Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck and want to remind you all. Please send us Your talkbacks, your thoughts, all that good stuff. And also call us. We are live and we love our live callers. So let's get to Rob in Oklahoma. Let's talk. Rob, what's going on?

[Alex Berenson]

Well, I wanted to let you guys know, Buck, your discussion with Trey Gowdy, you were brilliant. That guy has lost his. I used to love him. But here's, here's my point is all of the things that we're talking about are. I agree with you, I agree with you 100%. Armed security in the, in the schools, whether it's veterans, whether it's police, whether it's armed teachers, you know, trained, armed and trained. All good, all good. But my understanding is this guy shot from outside the school.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, Rob, I mentioned this when we were talking about this. You're totally correct, by the way. I'm just jumping and tell you, I said in this instance, maybe armed security would have been able to. Look, there were two killed and about a dozen wounded. Maybe armed security would have been able to respond, but they wouldn't have been able to neutralize the threat, most likely right away. Because if you're going to shoot at a building from the outside, but the shooter didn't make it into the building.

[Clay Travis]

I believe he shot for four minutes. I think that's the report. And we're going to get more and more details about that. Yes, the initial.

[Buck Sexton]

Rob, your point is well taken, but I think still armed security. He much rather had armed security there than not, is the point. And, and so, but yes, we're totally looking at the tactical analysis of this with an understanding that some maniac's gonna be firing a rifle at the side of a church. I mean, the stained glass isn't bulletproof. We get it. All right, look, cell phones aren't meant to last forever. They're built to be tough. But the inner workings of a cell phone slow down over time, just like a laptop computer, maybe even faster. Thanks to PureTalk, your cell phone is something you can upgrade very easily if it's time. Switch to PureTalk this month, they're going to give you a Samsung Galaxy A36 for free with a $35. $35 a month qualifying plan. Those 35 bucks a month provide for unlimited talk, text and plenty of data. And a free Samsung phone with scratch resistant gorilla glass and a battery that lasts all day on America's most dependable 5G network. Look, supporting companies like PureTalk is a good thing. You win by cutting your cell phone bill in half. They win by hiring more Americans. And hiring and helping veterans make the switch in as little as 10 minutes. I've done it. You can do it too. Pure Talks, my cell phone company. Dial £250, say the keywords clay and Buck to get your free phone today. That's £250, say clay and Buck to switch to America's wireless company. Pure Talk.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show, our friend Alex Berenson, formerly of the New York Times, write about almost everything on Covid. Remember back mattered. Now it's just like everybody wants to pretend Covid never existed and there were never restrictions. And they never said, hey, go sit in circles in public parks. They never said, hey, take your, put your mask on to walk to a restaurant. Then you can take your mask off as soon as you sit down. That none of this absurdity. Schools weren't shut down all these things. I thought about it this morning because I'm still angry about it. When I took my kids, we had a doctor's appointment and you had to wear a mask to go to a kids pediatric appointment for years in much of the country. But Alex, we want to talk with you now about the school shooting and in Minneapolis. We have been talking about this quite a lot and we're going to get into a variety of different angles that you think are significant. But let's start here. How much attention do you think there should be? You're a parent. Buck is now a parent. Obviously. I've got three kids on the idea of minors being given drugs relating to their gender. In the wake of the school shooting in Nashville and the school shooting in Minneapolis, is it reasonable to say, hey, let's look at what we're giving these minor kids. Is it having an impact in their decision making?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes. I mean, I think if you frame it that way, the answer is 100% yes. And you know, that's not to say that, you know, most trains kids or kids getting, you know, or, you know, or even young adults getting trans hormones are in any way violent or dangerous. But you know, this has now happened a number of times. And I think it, you know, it raises this bigger question, right? Like these are very powerful drugs. You know, sex hormones are, you know, they're very powerful even though they're naturally occurring. That doesn't mean they're not powerful and are when you frame it as are they affecting kids decision making. That's a, that's a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

[Buck Sexton]

Now, Alex, I know you are very vocal about your, what you see as a connection between psychosis from Marijuana, thc.

[Alex Berenson]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

The psychoactive drug. That, that is what people are smoking the weed for and in general, just the psychosis of it. But you also think that the. Walk me through here what you believe, because I've seen you on Twitter talking about this, or rather writing about this. Do you think there's a link between the psychosis that has, has been a huge factor obviously in some of these horrific shootings and marijuana use? Talk us through that.

[Alex Berenson]

Sure. So, so start with this. Cannabis. And you know, listen, I wrote a book, right, in 2019 called Tell your children that that went into this connection in depth. And, and so although I'm not an MD or a PhD, I believe that I am qualified to talk about this in a serious way. And I've read, you know, basically all the literature that I can find on it. And the evidence has really only gotten stronger since Telluturin came out, which was six years ago. There's been more studies done. So look, cannabis, thc, because as you said, THC is the active ingredient in cannabis. It's the drug in cannabis that makes people high, can cause and worsen psychotic episodes in people. There's, there's no question about that. I think even the cannabis lobby would acknowledge that. And there is now, I would say, very good evidence that in some people, especially if you start using cannabis at a young age and especially if you use a lot of it, and especially if you use high potency cannabis. And unfortunately, all those three things are all connected. If you're doing that, you increase your risk of developing schizophrenia. And schizophrenia is essentially a permanent psychotic condition. Right? So people with schizophrenia will become psychotic, they'll maybe manage their psychosis with drugs, drugs called antipsychotics. They may get a little bit better, but then they're likely to become psychotic again. They'll relapse, sort of. The definition of schizophrenia is that it's a psychotic condition that's not drug related. It's not related to dementia, it's not related to anything else. And it just comes and goes. And it's a really terrible. Okay. About one in 150 people have this illness. And for the most part they don't get married, they don't work, they don't have kids, they die about 20 years younger than other people on average, because you really can't function very well in society with schizophrenia. The other thing about schizophrenia and about psychiasis is that people who have it are much more likely to become violent. There's no question about that. They're also more likely to be the victims of violence. So let's be clear about that too. But you know, when the classic line, the line that I use and tell your children is when you see somebody, if you're just an ordinary person, you're on the subway platform in New York City, you see somebody talking to himself who clearly hasn't showered or, you know, bathed, might be homeless at the other end of the platform or near you, you walk over to the other end of the platform because you intuitively know that psychosis is dangerous. Human beings know this. They know that people who are disconnected with reality can be dangerous to them. And that's particularly true when the psychosis has a paranoia flavor. So if I become mentally ill and I'm convinced that you're out to get me, I might lash out and hurt you. And that might be if you're a stranger. It might be if you're my child, it might be if you're, you know, a police officer, right? So once I become convinced that you're a risk to me, I will lash out against you. And this is a real connection. I don't think anybody serious in the psychiatric community, in the medical community would doubt any of those things that I've just told you. So the question then becomes, in encouraging people or allowing people, or allowing an industry to spring up that encourages the use of cannabis and thc, which is a known psychomimetic drug, it. Are we essentially facilitating or encouraging? Encouraging is the wrong word. But. But are. Is it like.

[Clay Travis]

Let me cut, Let me cut you off here for a sec. Let me cut you off for a sec, Alex, because I think this is important. I mentioned that we're all parents. I think a lot of people around our age, and we're all around the same age, actually bought into the idea that weed, that THC is in some way healthier to use and less damaging than Alcoh. And if you look, if you look at the data right now, and I think this is important, alcohol use among young people is hitting record lows. They are not in any way using alcohol like past generations have. Also, nobody young, by and large smokes, right? Like nicotine. And the idea that you would smoke a pack a day, the use of cigarettes has collapsed among the young. But use of thc, use of weed related products has surged. And the idea has been, Alex, that this is healthier and better for kids, better for young people, young adults. What you're telling us is that the evidence is actually that we're trading less dangerous objects for more dangerous ones based on Some of the data that you're seeing.

[Alex Berenson]

So. So it's more complicated even than what you just said, and here's why. Alcohol use is down. Okay? But it is not clear that people who use cannabis use less. Alcoh. Okay? People who use drugs tend to use drugs.

[Clay Travis]

Okay?

[Alex Berenson]

So what you get is sort of an additive effect where people are using alcohol and cannabis. And by the way.

[Clay Travis]

So there's not as much of a substitution as my question implied based on what the data you see shows.

[Alex Berenson]

That's right. There are some people who are just using less drugs. Right. Just the way their kids, you know, kids, like, I would say teens and young adults, they have sex less. Some of them don't drive, which just seems absolutely crazy to me. They seem perfectly content, a lot of them to sit at home and essentially do nothing. And those are not the. And some of those people are using cannabis, but some are not. But there's definitely a group that is using cannabis and other drugs, even including psychedelics in addition to alcohol. So what I would also say is it's not. People say to me, how can you say cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol? Nobody ever, ever OD'd on cannabis on THC, which isn't quite true. People can OD on it. Mostly. They don't die on it. And here's the answer to that, the true answer to that. Cannabis is less physically dangerous than alcohol. No one could seriously disagree with that. If you drink too much alcohol, your liver can stop and you'll die. All right? That is not very likely. I mean, it's not going to happen if you use cannabis. But cannabis is more dangerous to your brain than alcohol. People don't get psychotic, except in very, very rare times or in very late stage alcoholism from using alcohol. They do get psychotic, paranoid and psychotic all the time when they use cannabis. Okay. It's almost a feature of the drug. And so. So those are. People are more dangerous to the people around them in general than somebody who's using alcohol. And so. Alex, can I just. Yes, Sorry.

[Buck Sexton]

No, no. I want to ask you. Finish your thought. I have something else. Go ahead.

[Alex Berenson]

So. So the question is, like, as a society, we're sort of trading. We're trading a bar fight for like a mass stabbing or a mass shooting. Right? So. Or maybe we're trading 10 bar fights or 100 bar fights for a mass shooting, but that is a real trade that we're making. This idea that somehow substituting cannabis for alcohol was going to be good for public health doesn't look like it's the case at all. And by the way, people, one last thing on this. This idea that when people are high and they drive, they don't speed. It's not true. So this idea that people who use cannabis have better mental health is 100% not true. In addition to this, what I'm talking about with psychosis.

[Buck Sexton]

So, Alex, I hate weed, too, just to be clear. So everything you're saying here, it jives with what I think. But I want to ask you something else that's related, but. Because when these things happen, you have a lot of people that will say, oh, you know, and I'm seeing this on the right, particularly, which is why I want to talk about it. They go, oh, they start blaming SSRIs.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

And this. I think there's a lot of misinformation or a lot of people need to understand. Like, I mean, I just say this. I knew someone very well, many years ago who was bipolar. And I knew this person. Someone, you know, it was a woman who I was dating on meds, totally normal, doing great, very successful in life, off meds, cannot function. And so I just think that, you know, people, there's this thing of, like, the SSRI zombies are running in and killing people. The right needs to understand that actually, in the mental health world, there are people who are. Their lives are saved by being on these drugs, actually. And a lot of veterans who deal with ptsd, whom I know have gotten tremendous benefit from ssri. So can you speak to this a little bit? Because I think people just are like, everybody on SSRI should get off them. Like, that is a terrible idea.

[Alex Berenson]

It's a terrible. So I don't understand the hate for SSRIs. Okay, look, I think SSRIs are overrated as drugs. And most people who have mild depression are going to recover from that depression on their own whether or not they take an ssri, but there are some people out there who have really severe depression who really can't function very well without an ssri. And by the way, if you have psychosis, there are drugs called antipsychotics. And those drugs, those are difficult drugs for people. They cause a lot of weight gain. They cause movement disorders in some people. But if you. If you have psychosis, you need an antipsychotic. Like, those drugs help people. And. And I think there's a really important distinction to make that gets lost between essentially recreational drugs, drugs of abuse, and SSRIs and antipsychotics. And. And so people will say, when I say this, like, People are like, he's a. He's a simp for pharma. And I say to them, like, do you know who I am? Pharma? Yeah, Me.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, this is why. This is why I wanted you to talk about it, Alex, because I. When I try to point out reality, people, too, I'm like. Like no one's, like, sitting around just popping lots of Prozac because it's so fun.

[Alex Berenson]

That's exactly right. So the distinction isn't between a drug you prescribe and a drug that's not prescribed. The distinction is between drugs that get you high and drugs that don't get you high. So what gets you high? Stimulants get you high. So that's like an ADHD drug. Adderall. That's Amphetamine. Those drugs get people high. Benzos, anti anxiety drugs people take to get high. Nobody takes Prozac to get high. Nobody takes Viprexa, which is an antipsychotic, to get high. Those drugs have no street value because they don't get you high.

[Buck Sexton]

And the people who need them really, really need them, in many cases, 100%.

[Alex Berenson]

Right. And so, again, like, our SSRI is potentially over prescribed. Sure. I'll tell you something. Right now, Right now, most SSRIs are off patent. Okay? Prozac, off patent. Lexapro off patent. Okay? That means that the companies don't make any money, basically, from them, and they're still being prescribed. Why? Because there are some people out there who need them. And you're totally right to make that point. Again, I'm not like I agree with you. I don't understand why the right has suddenly gotten fixated on SSRI.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, they're demonizing SSRIs, and they're.

[Clay Travis]

And they're wrong.

[Buck Sexton]

Honestly, a lot of the people that are doing this are just wrong. And they don't know what they're talking about. And I'll just say it out loud because I know it's true.

[Clay Travis]

All right, let me ask you this, Alex, as we go to break, because I do think so many people listen and their moms and dads, their grandma and grandpas, what would you want them to tell their kids who are 15 or 16 years old and have bought into this idea that you use THC products as much as you want, and there's nothing to be concerned about with that. In 30 seconds, what would you want.

[Alex Berenson]

Them to know in 30 seconds? And then I. And then I hope you give me one final segment, but in 30 seconds, what I'd say to you is. It's not just about THC and it's not just about alcohol. There's no free lunch. Okay? A drug that gets you high, that, that alters your relationships to the world, you're gonna pay a price for it. And it may be a small price and it may be a price that you're willing to pay to have that euphrate euphoria or that intoxication in the moment. But don't make the mistake of thinking cannabis and THC is medicine. Don't think that if you're, you know, popping your Adderall to stay up all night and you want to feel good like that, there's not a price to be paid. These drugs are addictive. They change your brain chemistry and, and you will pay. And you may be able to tolerate that price, but it is coming. That's what I would say to them. That's what parents should tell their kids.

[Clay Travis]

We got to go to break to hit the hit the read. We'll come back and get one minute from you to close out the hour if you'll stick with us. Yeah, regular season football is here. Let me give you a pick. Buck is playing. I'm playing Ohio State Texas tomorrow. Phenomenal. Tennessee's playing Syracuse. That's where all these picks are from. You get 50 bucks right now if you go to prizepix.com code Clay Jeremiah Smith, star wide receiver for the Ohio State Buckeyes. More than eighty three and a half yards yards. This game is at noon tomorrow. DeSean Bishop, running back for Tennessee. More than one half of a touchdown rushing or receiving. This will be [e-mail] Arch Manning more than 1/2 touchdown passes if that hits 4 to 1. Regardless, you get 50 bucks when you play. $5 prizepix.com college football is here. Code Clay Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, California. You can play everywhere. 40/states 13 million playing pricebooks.com code clay stories of freedom. Stories of America. Inspirational stories that unite us all. Each day spend time with clay and box. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts this Labor Day.

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[Clay Travis]

Now you can stream Fox News Live on the Fox One app. Stay on top of breaking news and the biggest stories live as they happen, all from Fox voices you trust, bringing you the coverage you won't find anywhere else.

[Buck Sexton]

Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one we live for live streaming now.

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[Alex Berenson]

Ooh, just and real.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Hey there. I'm Mary Kathryn Hamm.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz. We've been in political media for a long time.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's why we started Normaly, a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor.

[Carol Markowitz]

We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass, you're our kind of people. Catch new episodes of Normally every every.

[Carol Markowitz]

Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or Wherever you. Listen.

[Buck Sexton]

Alex, you want, we're just gonna give you the floor for a second. You had more on this one. You're in fuego. Go ahead.

[Alex Berenson]

So listen, here's what I, here's what I wanna say. The President of the United States right now has a very important decision that he's, that he's trying to make about whether or not cannabis should be rescheduled. Rescheduled as a, as a less dangerous drug under DEA rules. And so, so if he does that, okay. By the way, it's currently called Schedule 1, but that doesn't affect your ability in a legalized state to buy it. It doesn't mean anybody is arrested for possessing it or using it. All that stuff is under the current situation. Okay? But the cannabis industry desperately wants him to reschedule because it will be a huge boost to their profits. Okay? And that will mean more pot ads, it will mean more dispensaries, it will mean more kids and young people and young adults smoking a lot. This is what they want. And they don't want it because it's going to change public health or get it or they don't want it because it's going to get, you know, kids out of jail because it doesn't change any laws. It just will make their lives easier. And you, me, Laura Ingram, we, we don't have money in this. Okay? We are talking about this before because we think it's important for the health of kids and young adults. And I know it's a tough choice, but the President should go with his gut. I know that he's concerned about substance abuse. I know, you know, he's seen its effects on people and he should keep cannabis as a Schedule 1 drug and he should listen to people who don't have money.

[Buck Sexton]

Alex Berenson, everybody. Alex, thanks for being here. Guys, Hour three coming up. Stick around around.

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[Clay Travis]

This is an I Heart podcast.