Hour 2 - The Dark Truth on Stolen Organs

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Hour 2 - The Dark Truth on Stolen Organs

Date: May 15, 2026
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode Theme: A deep dive into the shadowy world of "killed to order" organ trafficking in China, political developments in the American South, and high-profile debates around cancel culture and comedy’s boundaries.

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Episode Overview

This episode features a bombshell interview with Jan Jekielek, investigative journalist and author of Killed To Order, exposing the horrifying reality of state-sponsored organ harvesting in China. Clay and Buck also analyze recent political redistricting and race-driven narratives in Southern states, touch on ongoing culture war controversies—including reactions to edgy comedy—and wrap with vibrant listener engagement.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Redistricting Battles and Racial Politics in the South

[03:22 – 07:14]

• Clay Travis: Shares updates on Congressional map changes in states like Tennessee, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi (“they are going to do a post-primary change of the map in Georgia…” [03:54]), with specific focus on how these changes are being debated as racially motivated.
• The resignation of Representative Steve Cohen in Memphis is interpreted as a political move to facilitate a black representative amid accusations of racial gerrymandering:
  • “Steve Cohen is stepping back to allow there to be a black representative for the 9th congressional district in Memphis.” ([05:08], Clay Travis)
  • Media, including CNN, stoking racial discord with segments urging black athletes to avoid Southeastern Conference schools over voting rights decisions.

2. Controversy Over Comedy, Cancel Culture, and BLM Protests

[07:14 – 16:32]

• Buck Sexton & Clay Travis: Play audio from a BLM press conference condemning a George Floyd joke during a Netflix roast of Kevin Hart, highlighting the tension between free speech, comedy, and social justice movements.
  • “We are here today to call your attention to the fact that an egregious, disgusting joke was made about George Floyd… It is unacceptable and it is unconscionable.” ([08:24], Jan Jekielek quoting BLM)
• Full segment critiques the sanctification of George Floyd in American culture and claims of BLM's destructive legacy:
  • “George Floyd was a scumbag… died of heart failure from fentanyl overdose. And we all have to sit here and pretend that this is somehow a referendum on race relations…” ([09:20], Clay Travis)
  • “BLM is destructive. BLM has been wrong on everything.” ([09:41], Clay Travis)
• Buck and Clay argue that “outrage” over jokes at roasts is misplaced and draw comparisons to jokes about Pete Davidson’s 9/11 loss and other dark humor:
  • “Roasts are awful, often cringe-worthy humor. I tend to like them because I tend to like cringe-worthy humor. I have a little bit of a dark sense of humor.” ([10:41], Buck Sexton)
• The hosts staunchly oppose call-out culture and “canceling” comedians, equating such activism to efforts that stifle free speech and set dangerous precedents.

3. Interview with Jan Jekielek – “Killed to Order”: Organ Harvesting in China

[22:11 – 37:20]

Introduction & Context

[22:11 – 25:52]

• Clay Travis & Buck Sexton: Introduce Jan Jekielek and his startling investigative work exposing the Chinese regime’s "kill to order" organ harvesting industry:
  • In China, organs can be “scheduled” and acquired for wealthy buyers in just days, far faster than anywhere else in the world.
  • “Someone can come in and pay 100 or 200 grand for a new heart and they can get it in two weeks or less scheduled.” ([22:35], Jan Jekielek)

The Mechanism and Historical Context

[25:52 – 31:07]

• Organ transplants in ethical systems rely on tragic accidents and matching—but in China, those impediments are erased through the targeted incarceration of “black classes,” especially Falun Gong practitioners and later Uyghur Muslims.
  • “China has this history of creating what are called black classes… They turned on this group called Falun Gong practitioners… 70 to 100 million people.” ([26:59], Jan Jekielek)
• Key Mechanism:
  • Prisoners are exhaustively blood-typed, tissue-typed, and organ scanned; this is databased so a matching “donor” can be killed on demand to supply organs to paying customers.
  • “Now if I’m the wealthy transplant tourist… there’s a person that’s been pre-matched for me, and the moment I make that transaction… that person can be shipped and killed to order.” ([28:52], Jan Jekielek)

Evidence and Research

[31:07 – 36:14]

• Multiple lines of evidence:
  • Early phone recordings from Chinese hospitals arranging quick transplants for paying foreigners, including specific requests for “Falun Gong organs.” ([31:26], Jan Jekielek)
  • Online price lists (later forced underground).
  • Tribunal led by Sir Geoffrey Nice, documentation at chinatribunal.com.
  • Peer-reviewed studies in the American Journal of Transplantation found explicit admissions in Chinese scientific literature violating the “dead donor rule.”
    • “They found 71 instances… where the dead donor rule was very clearly violated. In other words, the person was killed by having their organs removed.” ([32:48], Jan Jekielek)

Scale and International Complicity

[34:24 – 37:01]

• Estimate: 60,000 to 100,000 transplants annually in China, a $9 billion annual industry.
  • “In America, the record number of transplants last year was 40,000… [in China] it’s about a $9 billion annual industry.” ([35:14], Jan Jekielek)
• International complicity: Western surgeons training Chinese doctors, lackluster global response; urgency for American legislative action.
  • “One of the big issues… is our own complicity. We’ve trained some of these transplant surgeons, and there’s all sorts of other ways that we’re kind of involved that we should stop.” ([37:01], Jan Jekielek)

How to Learn More

• Interested listeners can find Jan’s book at killtoorder.com and the evidence archive at chinatribunal.com.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Steve Cohen is stepping back to allow there to be a black representative for the 9th congressional district in Memphis.”
  — Clay Travis [05:08]

• “George Floyd was a scumbag… died of heart failure from fentanyl overdose. And we all have to sit here and pretend that this is somehow a referendum on race relations for the last 200 plus years or whatever. The whole thing is absurd.”
  — Clay Travis [09:20]

• “Someone can come in and pay 100 or 200 grand for a new heart and they can get it in two weeks or less scheduled.”
  — Jan Jekielek [22:35]

• “Now if I’m the wealthy transplant tourist… there’s a person that’s been pre-matched for me, and the moment I make that transaction… that person can be shipped and killed to order.”
  — Jan Jekielek [28:52]

• “In America, the record number of transplants last year was 40,000… [in China] it’s about a $9 billion annual industry.”
  — Jan Jekielek [35:14]

• “One of the big issues… is our own complicity. We’ve trained some of these transplant surgeons, and… we’re kind of involved that we should stop. And that was part of the testimony the other day, right, that we’re basically talking about trying to have legislation and executive action to basically at least cut into this a little bit, because it’s a crime against humanity and we shouldn’t be a party to it in any way.”
  — Jan Jekielek [37:01]

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• Southern Redistricting and Political Strategy – [03:22 – 07:14]
• BLM vs. Netflix: Comedy and Cancel Culture – [07:14 – 16:32]
• Interview with Jan Jekielek: “Killed to Order”
  • Introduction and “How It Works” – [22:11 – 25:52]
  • The Black Classes and Falun Gong – [25:52 – 31:07]
  • Evidence and Tribunals – [31:07 – 36:14]
  • International Impact and Solutions – [36:14 – 37:20]
• Listener Comments and Political Economic Realities – [41:37 – 44:36]

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Tone & Language

• The hosts strike a blunt, irreverent, and at times acerbic tone—challenging mainstream narratives and calling out what they see as hypocrisy or overreach in political and cultural activism.
• Their handling of Jan Jekielek’s research is serious and urgent, pivoting from culture war banter to sobering journalistic inquiry.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a hard-hitting mix of incisive news commentary, culture war skepticism, and investigative reporting. The centerpiece—Jan Jekielek’s harrowing account of “killed to order” organs in China—adds a jaw-dropping layer of global human rights urgency, transcending the day’s political squabbles. For listeners, it’s a fast-moving, provocative conversation shedding light on both domestic and international crises.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Martha Stewart]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

our number two Friday edition, Clay and Buck. Uh, we've got a bunch of different guests coming your way starting at the bottom of this hour. Uh, but there are a bunch of different tour stories worth following. And Buck, as we are moving closer and closer to primary day in California, the stories that are emerging there are super impactful as it pertains not only to the mayor of Los Angeles but also to what's going to happen in the governor's race there. But one bit of news I want to share with you that I am seeing reported. Tennessee changed their map. There are a bunch of different states in the south in the wake of the Louisiana decision that have changed their maps. They changed the maps in Tennessee. They are in the process of changing Louisiana and Alabama. Likely South Carolina may or may not. They still have a decision to make there. They are going to do a post primary change of the map in Georgia that will be prospective that is going to 2028. They are going to have a legislative session designed for that because their primary is Tuesday in Georgia and we certainly encourage all of you to get out and vote. A lot of big decisions to make there in both the Senate and the Governor's race among many others in Georgia and also Mississippi has said they will adjust to their map after this cycle. The long serving member of the House from Memphis, Steve Cohen, who is a Jewish white guy that has been representing Memphis, the 9th congressional district in Tennessee. Today is the filing deadline for the new maps which have so far been upheld despite court challenges. He is not going to run. So one longtime incumbent Democrat House member is not running. Some people are celebrating this online. Buck, let me tell you what I think is going on here. Steve Cohen is not running because Memphis area Democrats have tried to say this map is rooted in Racism. But then a lot of people have pointed back and said, wait a minute, it's represented by a Jewish white guy. And he actually has defeated very often in those races, a black woman who is the Republican candidate. I think what's happened here is Steve Cohen is stepping back to allow there to be a black representative for the 9th congressional district in Memphis. So they can scream this is racist and try to argue that this is overturning the Civil Rights act as part of their midterm agenda. And if you question whether I'm right about this, I'm letting you know, I think what their strategy is going to be. Buck. I don't know if you've seen this. I tweeted about it a little bit. Yesterday, CNN had a segment saying that black athletes should not go to Southeastern Conference schools because of the voting rights decision rendered by the Supreme Court, which they say are disenfranchising black voters. Why do I bring that up? I think it's significant because they're going to try to drive racial angst and discord to drive up voter turnout. I think if you question whether I'm right about this, Steve Cohen choosing not to run in this district, I believe, is directly attributable to that. So I wanted to play. Do we have the audio of the. Yes, we do.

[Clay Travis]

Blm.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. This ties into it.

[Clay Travis]

Let's do this.

[Buck Sexton]

I wanted to play this. This is a hundred percent real. Our friend who runs a site called In Wokeness, the Twitter. The Twitter account. In Wokeness, a BLM leader has held a press conference because they are upset about Netflix allowing a George Floyd joke. Guys, can we grab the George Floyd joke, too so we can play it for people? This was a roast of Kevin Hart, a popular black comedian. I want to play the joke for you, too. But first we will play the press conference. You never want to be the person who is out there saying, remember when Dave Chappelle had the jokes about trans people and they had a huge protest outside of Netflix's headquarters? So this is BLM saying this was an unacceptable joke in a comedy roast. This is a real press conference. Cut 27. Again, it is not a laughing matter. We are here today to call your

[Jan Jekielek]

attention to the fact that an egregious,

[Buck Sexton]

disgusting joke was made about George Floyd. Here we are about to memorialize George Floyd for year six after his brutal murder at the hands of the Minneapolis Police Department. Our community is still experiencing grief and trauma. We have young people in our community who were children at the time. They're now teenagers still dealing with the impacts of the police killing of George Floyd. Floyd. And instead of allowing our community to grieve in peace, to celebrate George Floyd in peace, we have Netflix comedians making light of the brutal killing of George Floyd. It is unacceptable and it is unconscionable. Tony Hinchcliffe made a grotesque joke saying.

[Jan Jekielek]

Saying that George Floyd is looking up

[Buck Sexton]

at us laughing and he can't breathe. When I saw the clip online, it made me sick to my stomach. We are here to declare today that there needs to be accountability for Kevin Hart's Netflix roast.

[Clay Travis]

Can I just say, what does that mean? We need more George Floyd jokes. More. If they really think that they're allowed to shut down comedians because of, remember, this is actually a joke that was made. This wasn't just like a mean thing that was said. It was actually a joke. It's not so threatening to kill a politician or something and then saying, I was kidding. No, this is an actual joke at a roast. George Floyd was a scumbag. George Floyd died of heart failure from fentanyl overdose. And we all have to sit here and pretend that this is somehow a referendum on race relations for the last 200 plus years or whatever. The whole thing is absurd. BLM is destructive. BLM has been wrong on everything. No respect whatsoever for the entity. No respect whatsoever for what it has, quote, done, accomplished. Unless you think that a higher murder rate for the entire nation is something to brag about. So I'm glad that they're upset about this Be upset

[Buck Sexton]

team again, if we can grab it, we'll play the joke. I would point out there were a lot of distasteful jokes, as one often hears in the roast of Kevin Hart, including jokes at the expense of Pete Davidson's dad. Pete Davidson was one of the roasters,

[Clay Travis]

died on 9 11.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's the joke about his dad dying on 9 11.

[Clay Travis]

Like he made a joke about that.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. They also made a joke about Charlie Kirk getting shot, which is far more recent. So again, roasts are awful. Often cringe worthy humor. I tend to like them because I tend to like cringe worthy humor. I have a little bit of a dark sense of humor. I don't know what the consequences they want to be. And if you're saying, okay, that name sounds a little bit familiar. Tony Hinchcliff was the roast comedian that they had at the Madison Square Garden. He made the Puerto Rico joke that

[Clay Travis]

was going to cost Trump the election. No, it didn't.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, it was going to cost Trump huge support. Among Hispanic voters. I mean it was like a week long story that they ran with on Tony Hinchcliffe, Total media Astroturf.

[Clay Travis]

On that one though, we all knew that was not that people weren't actually upset about it. It was preposterous. Well, you haven't really weighed in on like why is George Floyd is sacred? You know, I've got some words that

[Buck Sexton]

I can't say on radio about what I think about that Derek Chauvin was unjustly. Well, first of all, let's play the joke so you guys can hear it for yourself. This was on Netflix. It's a Kevin Hart roast. And this was Tony Hinchcliffe who is the roasting comedian. Here is the joke. Listen, you've done good though, Kevin. The black community is so proud of you. Right now George Floyd is looking up us at us all laughing so hard that he can't breathe. All right? And Hitchcliffe a little bit stepped on the joke himself because he miss misreader the joke a little bit. But the joke is that George Floyd is in hell and he's looking up, laughing so hard saying he can't breathe. Ok. Edgy joke, but a joke that I think is squarely within the bounds of roast level humor, which is basically their own.

[Clay Travis]

Let's just revisit. Let's we talk about history and fact and truth and how important it is. George Floyd was a career felon and drug addiction who had during a home invasion that he was a part of, pointed a loaded firearm at the belly of a pregnant woman and threatened to execute her and her unborn baby unless they shut up while he robbed their home.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

That's who the Democrats build murals to all across the country. That's who BLM thinks should be treated like a saint. He was not a good person. Ok. And he also did not die from police brutality. I know we're all supposed to sit here and go, oh my gosh, no.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, that's where I was. That's where I was. That's where I was going to go. The data actually reflects that he did not die because a police murder, a police member murdered him. I think Derek Chauvin should be out of prison. Yeah. But also that entire trial was held with the idea being if he's not convicted, we're going to burn more things down. Right. I mean the, the entire premise of that trial was that that basically you got to throw Derek Chauvin and by the way, the other guys who were also convicted who didn't even touch George Floyd really were just Standing off to the side. The whole premise was, if you don't convict, Derek Chauvin will riot even more and burn down even more of Minneapolis. So there's no way that jury felt like they had actual ability to weigh the evidence. It is, to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was definitely, again, you look at that evidence, you look at the. The toxicology reports, there is a huge, huge amount of evidence that should have risen to reasonable doubt status, in my opinion, to keep that conviction from occurring. And. And even on appeal, I think if you look at the toxicology reports, it's far more likely that George Floyd was dying because of the toxic substances in his. In his body. So I don't even think that's a controversial opinion at this point. But again, this all spirals out of the joke. And if you find yourself having press conferences to demand that jokes from Roast not be allowed, I think you're in a tough spot now. Doesn't mean sometimes you cannot say, hey, I think that joke was in poor taste. I said this recently. Comedian Drew Ski put on whiteface and pretended to be Erica Kirk. And I think this whole treatment of Erica Kirk in the seven months since her husband was brutally assassinated has been one of the most indefensible Internet actions collectively that I've ever seen. If your husband gets murdered in cold blood.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, sorry. Sorry, I didn't interrupt. You. Go ahead.

[Buck Sexton]

No, I was just saying, if your husband gets murdered in cold blood, even if you don't love the person, maybe just give a little bit of grace to the widow, I would just point that out. It's been seven months.

[Clay Travis]

I would also just point out that neither you nor I had been to a Turning Point event in, I don't know, a decade. So I was friendly with Charlie, but I didn't know him well, and I wasn't a part of anything that he was doing at Turning Point. And a lot of people really wrote on Charlie's coattails for years at every Turning Point thing, always using Turning Point for their own. Everything else. There's. They're all. They're all so pro Charlie, and they have not been willing to defend his grieving widow publicly while she is being maligned by lunatics.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

And I think that says a lot

[Buck Sexton]

about figure out who the people are. A lot of people, one of us ever spoke at any of these Turning

[Clay Travis]

Point events, and we just. Erica.

[Buck Sexton]

And we're like, this is unacceptable that you would be treating her like that, in my opinion.

[Clay Travis]

And there are people that, you know, every photo of Charlie. They're standing right next to him for the last decade is. And now his widow is under assault by. By lunacy. They don't have a word to say about it. It's really tells you a lot about some people's character. There you go. We're here. And like I said, I've never even met Erica. Neither is Clay.

[Buck Sexton]

I. I've. And I've spoken at a Charlie event. I've met Erica a couple times just to shake hands. Oh, sorry. You better haven't.

[Clay Travis]

I haven't even met her.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, but I don't have any relationship with her.

[Clay Travis]

And you know, just. We just know what's wrong. It's just horrible what people have been doing. So. But also we're not calling a press conference trying to get people thrown in prison for a joke. That's the other thing. This whole BLM thing is just, you know, so sensitive. Oh, George, Floyd, please give me a break. Protecting your family, your own home is critical. Could get a home invasion. We're just talking about a home invasion before. And it's all on you because there are bad people out there. There are bad people. No matter what Democrats want to tell you. There are people out there who are going to kept getting let out. Let out, let out. And they prey on their fellow human beings. So you have to take your safety and your family's safety into your own hands. I got a safe full of guns because I've been trained with firearms since I was a teenager and I want to have a lethal option to fend myself. But I also have tools from Sabre because I want force escalation if that is what the situation calls for. You know, if somebody tries to break through that door, maybe I go non lethal first and I give that a shot because that so often does stop the threat. Also, if I'm carrying it or if I'm in a place where I can't carry, for example, there are Saber tools that you can have on you. And Kerry prefers Sabre and the product that they have because she wants nonlethal self defense as her option. Sabre home defense launcher is easy to use. Delivers seven powerful pepper or impact projectiles. That's two more than most competitors right now. You can save up to 15% on select bundles. Sabre is spelled S A B R E. The website is saberradio.com. when safety matters, America chooses Sabre, the number one brand trusted by police and millions worldwide. Don't wait for a close call. Get protection [e-mail] that's S A B R E radio.com or call 844-824 safe

[Buck Sexton]

looking for normal in a world of

crazy clay and buck? Have your back.

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by By Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Ever wonder

[Martha Stewart]

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[Clay Travis]

free meat@truenature meats.com welcome back here to Clay and Buck. We told you we have some fantastic guests today on the program and one of them, I believe, is he with us. Guys, do we have Jan? We do. We have Jan with us now and he has a phenomenal, really interesting, really troubling new book out that we want to talk to all of you about and he is going to tell us about it right now. So yon, your book Killed to Order is about what exactly? I mean, it's, the title is gripping. We just had this big visit with Trump and Xi Jinping. What is your book getting into?

[Jan Jekielek]

Well, Communist China has what I call a Killed to Order. That's the title of the book, Organ trafficking industry, which is something that's completely next level, very different from your run of the mill. Also horrible, frankly, organ trafficking on the black market, all that kind of thing. So, I mean, you've got this situation where someone can come in and pay 100 or 200 grand for a new heart and they can get it in two weeks or less scheduled. I mean, and that was actually a whistleblower we had back in 2006, 2005 that had a patient like this. He was a transplant surgeon from Israel. And this patient went and did this. And sort of the way you get to that is a whole kind of story that I'm happy to lay out for you and pretty quickly if you'd like.

[Buck Sexton]

No 100% when we come back, we will dive into this. But we wanted to give you a little bit of a tease of this story because it's kind of wild. It sounds like something that's out of sci fi. Basically, there are adult humans that are being harvested their organs for others who have the money to be able to pay for it. Again, it sounds like something that would be sci fi. And we'll get more details on this. It's a story that is, that is crazy coming out of China in the wake of President Trump's state visit now being complete there. So we'll talk more about that with Yawn when we come back. In the meantime, next time your electricity goes out or the cell phone towers are overwhelmed, I hope you have rapid radios. We have it here in the Travis household. Rapid radios aren't Just another way to communicate with family, friends or coworkers. They can be a lifeline. That's why we own Rapid Radios. Instant push to talk communication coast to coast. No range limits, no contracts, no monthly fees. You just turn it on, start communicating. Right now they're including over $300 in free gear with your order including a tactical radio bag, USB charger and EMP Faraday bag. Plus every order includes a 30 day money back guarantee. Go to rapidradios.com use code radio for 5% off and free shipping when you need to be heard no matter where or when. Go to rapidradios.com you can join 500,000 other Americans that are own a pair of rapid radios and you will be glad when you do it. We got it for my young son. We got it for my mother in law. Rapid Radio's communication redefined. Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. You just heard us talking about the book Killed to Order. Yan is with us right now. Chinese organ donation. And I just want to go back to this because Jan, it says absolutely. It sounds absolutely insane. It sounds like something that would come out of science fiction. So what you were telling us as you went to break is in China, if you are wealthy enough, you can basically purchase any organs that you need that would be necessary for you to sustain life. In other words, if you have a kidney that is failing right here in the United States, we have a huge organ donation list. Hopefully a lot of you are organ donors on your phones. But in China you could just say, hey, I'm super rich, go buy me a kidney. And even crazier things like hearts.

[Jan Jekielek]

So that's exactly right. So actually, let me lay out how it is very briefly in an ethical system like in the U.S. okay, if I need a new heart, I need to get it from a catastrophic accident. Someone has to. It's usually a car accident or a motorcycle accident. And then that person can't be completely dead. Once the circulation stops, the organs degrade really quickly. So they have to. It's this very particular type of accident. Maybe the person's head's crushed, but there's still a bit of circulation or something like that. And then our bodies also reject foreign things, right? Like organs as well. So we control for that by matching for blood type and histology for tissue type. The size of the organ has to kind of match for the recipient as well. The point here is that the supply is a lot, lot less than the demand. Okay? That's the reality. So there's always a lot of Desperate people out there that want to get that organ. And this is where communist China comes in, okay? Because basically here, as I mentioned, right, you can actually get. And we've had multiple examples of this, the organs being procured within days, if not weeks. And so let me give you a little bit of context, okay? China has this history. It's a unique situation to China. China has this history of creating what are called black classes, okay, over decades. The first one of them were landowners. So they wanted to. They became, you know, the Communist Party seized power, they wanted to take those people's land. So they had to kind of convince the population this is somehow okay to do that, right? So they pushed this mass dehumanizing propaganda through the system. Actually very similar talking points to what you would have heard in 1930s in Germany. The Nazi propaganda, okay, Basically make these people dangerous kind of pariahs beneath you, all of that. And now it kind of activates this quirk in our psychology and human psychology that you can kind of accept bad things being done to people. And even. And for some people, they may even sort of participate in that, okay? They have this long history of doing this. And even now with these advanced media tools, it's even more powerful. In 1999, the Chinese Communist Party created its newest black class. It turned on this group called Falun Gong practitioners, okay? This was 70 to 100 million people. One in 13 Chinese were doing this slow motion exercise, practice, living truthfully, compassion, forbearance, these kind of principles, okay? But it was very, also very unusual. This is what sets up this unique circumstance where you can get this killed to order. It wasn't structured. It was like, you know, there's no roster in it, there's no hierarchy, there's no worship, even though there's kind of a deep spirituality, like you're not joining anything. People are very self directed, okay? And the regime discovered there's more people doing this than Communist Party members. They turn on them, they turn them into a black class. But kind of for the first time in history, it turns out that these people are not re educating easily, right? When you turn up, make a black class. You're not kind of killing everybody or something like that. You just need them to confess their sins. The land, you know, I was wronged to be a landowner. You guys deserve it. Whatever they want to make you say, the Falun Gong were not going to accept being called evil and all these kinds of things. So they incarcerated huge amounts of them. There was this kind of unwritten rule in those prisons that Torture of these people would be considered suicide. In other words, you can work on them as far as you need to to break them, because they wouldn't break easily. And this is what set up kill to order. Because now what they did is they started blood typing, tissue typing and organ scanning. These people, they created a database of all of these vitals. Remember the stuff that I talked about earlier, what you need in this ethical transplantation system. So now if I'm the wealthy transplant tourist, I could even be from America. This has happened from Germany, from many countries. And of course, mostly it'll be from within China. There's actually someone in the database because there's so many people incarcerated, so many people in this database. There's a person that's been pre matched for me, and the moment I make that transaction, I pay that money. That person can be shipped and killed to order. That's the reason that's the name of my book. So this is a very extreme thing and like you said, it's like science fiction. In the early years, it was hard for me to even talk to people about this. People would literally clue out in the middle of conversations. It's just so horrifying, right?

[Clay Travis]

Speaking of Jan, Jan Yekalik and you, Calic, rather, and his book is Killed to Order. Can you just. For anybody who's skeptical about this, and I think anyone who has a familiarity with how things operate in China, actually believes that this could very well be happening. But to people who maybe are just like, hold on a second, just what, what are the sources? I mean, what are the ways that you could convince a skeptic that this is going on? Like, what are the sources that you draw upon? Where else has this been either written about or research been done on this? Because it is so horrific that it, it is, it feels hard to imagine that this is going on, the second most powerful country in the world, and that the leadership of that country is not only aware of it, but directly benefiting from it. I mean, it sounds like Xi Jinping might have somebody else's liver,

[Jan Jekielek]

100%. So there's as one of the researchers of this, David Matus, actually he helped hunt down the last Nazi war criminal hiding in Canada. He calls it an evil yet to be seen on this planet. And he also says that the problem with this situation is there's too much evidence and not enough. But let me give you a few lines of evidence, right? Some of it was literally people would call in the early days until they figured out we were doing that. People would call The Chinese hospital and say, how quick can I get an organ? I've got the money. Do you have Falun Gong organs? And we have recordings of people saying, yes, absolutely. And it would come in two weeks. We'll set you up. Okay, so that the problem partially also is the moment that you do that, right? Then very quickly the word spreads and there aren't people answering the phone like that anymore. Another piece of evidence there was literally ads. Ads would list prices online. Okay. Of course, when we publicized this, they also went underground. But we have, of course, archives of this, both the wait times under two weeks and the price lists. Okay, so that's just to give you a starting point. There's a whole tribunal that was held 2019 to 2020. Sir Geoffrey Nees, who had prosecuted Slobodan Milosevic back in the day, he held this international tribunal, put all the evidence together. Okay. So there's actually, if you, if you want to check out chinatribunal.com and look at the, the body of evidence that exists there. But let me give you one example. Okay. There's a paper in the American Journal of Transplantation from just a few years back. What the authors did was they wanted, they thought to themselves, we know that this kill to order is the standard way. That this is just how the system in China works. I wonder if it's gotten so normalized because remember, this has been happening now for 26 odd years, right? So I wonder if it's so normalized that they're actually writing into the scientific methods of their publicly available peer reviewed research papers that they've killed people to order. Okay, so what they, they looked at about 2,000 papers of the scientific, the Chinese scientific transplant literature, and they found 71 instances. And these were very stringent criteria. I actually think the number is much higher than this. But given the most stringent criteria, okay, they found 70 studies where the dead donor rule was very clearly violated. In other words, the person was killed by having their organs removed. They had actually written that into their scientific peer reviewed research methods in their paper.

[Buck Sexton]

So, yeah, this, this is, this is kind of crazy stuff. How much more expansive do you think it could become? And one of the challenges of. I know this because I've done a few cases related to it, and I'm sure some people unfortunately have had to deal with it themselves. Sometimes organ donation doesn't take, right? You have somebody who, who doesn't take a kidney or they don't take. I mean, this is, this is really kind of dark stuff. How prevalent do we think it really is. I mean, it doesn't surprise me that the leader of China could do this because obviously he's an authoritarian. If Putin wanted somebody's kidney, it wouldn't surprise me if they just took it in Russia. But how commonplace do we think this actually is right now?

[Jan Jekielek]

So I testified in front of the Congressional Executive Commission on China yesterday, and with me up there was Ethan Gottman, one of the hero researchers of this whole thing. He's written a number of his own books. One was called the Slaughter on this sort of development of the system. Another one's called the Xinjiang Procedure. By the way, people not having done anything really like the international community really didn't respond to this for a great number of years. So by 2015, starting around 2000, we got this geometric growth of transplant hospitals based on the Falun gong incarceration. By 2015 and 2016, the regime turns on another group, the Uyghur Muslims, okay? And they're in a very isolated region in the northwest of China. They dehumanized them. They incarcerated a million of them and started working on them. And then they even started taking these vitals in people's homes, okay? So they added the second group. Now, going back to your question, okay, it's the estimate that Ethan offered, okay? He offered an estimate of what's happening in Xinjiang now, but the overall estimate that he offered is about 60 to 100,000 transplants annually. Okay? 60 or 100,000 transplant, we estimate it's about a 90. So pardon me, not a 90. A $9 billion annual industry, okay? Now remember, in America, we had the record number of transplants last year that was 40,000. Okay? So there's always this big, big supply limitation in the transplant community in general. And people have come to know now, people that have these very loose morals that are, you know, don't want to know where the organ came from or are happy to take an organ that someone was killed for. They know they can go to China to do that. And from what we know, we have examples of people from all over the world having done it.

[Buck Sexton]

This is a crazy story. We appreciate the time. If people are interested in more, how do they find it?

[Jan Jekielek]

So thank you for asking that. Okay, killtoorder.com, that's the short link to the Amazon link, and I would love it if you got the book. You might be skeptical. Listen, I got hit over the head by the evidence back in 2006. I didn't want to believe it was true then, okay? But check it out for Yourself. I have a whole chapter dedicated to the evidence and also what we can do. One of the big issues just super quickly is our own complicity. We've trained some of these transplant surgeons, and there's all sorts of other ways that we're kind of involved that we should stop. And that was part of the testimony the other day, right, that we're basically talking about trying to have legislation and executive action to basically at least cut into this a little bit, because it's a crime against humanity and we shouldn't be a party to it in any way.

[Buck Sexton]

Amen. Thank you for the time today.

[Clay Travis]

Great work. This is fascinating stuff, by the way, man. I really. I remember when I talked to you about it when I saw you in D.C. like, we got to have them on Clay. I mean, it's. It's horrible, but it's important. You know, it's. People got to know about this. All right. Thank you, John.

[Jan Jekielek]

No, and I wanted to say thank you guys for taking this on. It means the world to me. It's, you know, 20 years of work and, you know, finally people really want to know. From my heart to yours.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you.

[Buck Sexton]

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there when you need them most.

[Buck Sexton]

Clay and Buck just preset them on the iHeart app.

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[Martha Stewart]

is Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret when prepping for cooking and baking, get ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper. Just lightly wet the counter so the paper grips. Lay it down and drips and spills stay on the paper, not on your counter. Cleanup is as simple as lifting it away to reveal clean counters. Effortless it is thanks to Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper. Wet it, set it, prep it done. Available in the Reynolds Wrap aisle at Walmart, Target, Amazon and Costco.

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[Clay Travis]

to Clay and Buck. Racked and stacks on the top batch. Tell you special [e-mail] you can get assigned. You can get a signed copy of Manufacturing Delusion and as a new subscriber for 1999, which is a discount off the hardcover price, it's also signed. Go get your copy cracked coffee.com A lot of you saying I want to get signed books. There you go. Signed books signed by my own hand. There you go. Exciting stuff. Let's get to and become a new subscriber to crack a coffee because it's the best coffee you get anywhere. Wow, we have so many talkbacks. A Mike in Milwaukee. Hey, Clay and Buck, here's the deal. You don't pay your bills with your portfolio. You pay your bills with your paycheck. And that's what's wrong. We don't. It's not that we don't feel it, we don't see it. Our paychecks did not grow in accordance with the cost of living and inflation. So we're backwards on our monthly budgets, and that's the problem.

[Buck Sexton]

So this is actually significant. Over the last three years, paychecks have outpaced inflation. But inflation was so bad in 2022 and for much of the Biden regime that paychecks did not surpass inflation. And I would argue Mike's comment is actually an incredibly astute one. I would argue the most significant data point out there is our paychecks outpacing inflation because that's how people legitimately get more money in their pocket. Most recently, in the data that just came out, that was not true because the price of oil and gas has gone up. This was the first time in the Trump era, I believe the first monthly reading, where wages did not outpace inflation. So again, that is the biggest challenge. Mike is hitting on it. I would say, again, lots of people, it does matter significantly if you're.

[Clay Travis]

But he's right on the perception. He's right on the perception. I, I see what he's saying. I think that's correct. And perception matters a lot in politics. B. John from Ohio. Hey, you know, those Taiwanese are pretty petite people. And if Buck's feet look anything like his humongous head, I'm sure that would be considered very weird to them.

[Buck Sexton]

Brenda?

[Clay Travis]

Well, John, hurtful but funny. I'll give you that. Hurtful but funny.

[Buck Sexton]

That's what that's like, a rose. If yesterday, was it yesterday's program or the day before where you said that the Taiwanese were making fun of your feet.

[Clay Travis]

Well, I only, I only knew this because they were saying it in front of Steve Yates, who speaks Mandarin and he was like, oh, Buck, they think

[Buck Sexton]

your feet are weird.

[Clay Travis]

And, and it is true. I actually have a, A broken fifth metatarsal called the Jones fracture that never healed properly from when I was in high school. So I have a weird bump that's like basically a bone sticking out on the side of my foot. That's what they were noticing. Yeah, it's weird. I know they were right. The Taiwanese ladies were not incorrect. And they also had a name. They called me Godzilla head, which was. I made that part.

[Buck Sexton]

That is very funny. You should get that foot fixed. Is that a serious surgery to get it fixed?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, you got to get a screw. They basically have to like re. Break and then they have to put a screw into it.

[Buck Sexton]

It's like a lot of what surgeries deal with.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. Foot and ankle surgeries are very, you know, kind of caveman era compared to knee and hip hop. Knee and hip stuff. Because of all the old people. They're, they're, they've really gotten those down. Ankle and foot is. I don't know if we have like a world class ankle foot surgeon. Reach out to the show. Maybe you can help me out here. We got, Sorry, we got, we got more. We got a whole lot more. Talk about Katie Zachariah.

[Buck Sexton]

The.

[Clay Travis]

The gentleman in the audience have asked, where's Katie? And I said she will come on and talk about politics in California. So there we are.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. LA mayor's race and also what's going on in the primary season. How is that all shaken out? They just had the final California debate yesterday. Ballots are out, votes are starting to come in. We'll discuss next.

[Martha Stewart]

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