Hour 2 - The Left Wants to Abolish ICE

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 2 - The Left Wants to Abolish ICE
Date: January 15, 2026
Hosts: Clay Travis & Buck Sexton
Guest: Tudor Dixon

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Overview

In this episode, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the renewed push from some Democrats to abolish ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). The discussion covers the origins of the "Abolish ICE" movement, current efforts in Congress, the effects of Trump-era immigration policies, and the cultural and political implications of ongoing border policy debates. The hour also features a detailed segment with Tudor Dixon on the economic and political outlook in Michigan, as well as lighter banter on college football and a brief touch on health care policy proposals.

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Key Discussion Points

The Return of "Abolish ICE"

• Historical Context:
  • The “Abolish ICE” movement traces back to 2018, led by figures like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC). The hosts recall her infamous photo at the border and the slogan catching fire among progressives. (04:00-06:00)
• Current Push:
  • Rep. Shri Thanedar (D-MI) has introduced new legislation to abolish ICE, reviving the debate. Hosts mock Thanedar’s appearance and accent, using him as a symbol of what they see as out-of-touch immigration policy. (05:19-06:12)
    • Notable quote:
      “He also speaks with a very thick foreign accent. Okay. And he is the...you have the guy with probably the thickest foreign accent in Congress telling everybody that we need to get rid of the agency that enforces immigration law.”
      — Clay Travis (05:30)
  • Audio clips are played of Thanedar and Tudor Dixon (as a commentator) calling ICE “beyond reform.”

Democrat Strategy and Open Borders

• Political Calculus:
  • Buck and Clay argue Democrats support de facto open borders by opposing meaningful enforcement, but don’t want to explicitly repeal immigration law, so they target the agency (ICE) instead. (06:14-07:00)
  • “The Democrat position...they want the system to be broken. They broke it.” — Clay Travis (06:19)
• Trump’s Immigration Stats:
  • The hosts praise Trump’s policies, claiming unprecedented drops in net migration “for the first time since the 1920s,” and reference Tom Homan’s statistics about self-deportations. (07:17-08:30)
    • Notable quote:
      “Tom Homan believes that 2 million people roughly have self-deported...So roughly that would mean about 10% of the illegal population left in year one.”
      — Buck Sexton (07:52)

Attacks on ICE and Escalating Tension

• Demonization of ICE:

  • Clips of Hakeem Jeffries and other Democrats claiming ICE “brutalizes immigrant families” and “targets law-abiding families” stir sharp rebuttals from Clay and Buck, who accuse the left of cynically priming the public for violence against ICE. (09:23-11:30)
    • Notable quote:
      “This is why you have so many people...show up and scream and bang pots and pans and honk horns and insult and spit on all these ICE agents out there.”
      — Buck Sexton (11:12)
  • Hosts strongly suggest that left-wing rhetoric is fostering hostility that will eventually get ICE agents killed, predicting media will then blame law enforcement. (11:30-13:25)
    • “I know that ICE agents are going to get murdered. It’s just a question of when.”
      — Clay Travis (11:58)

• Media Narrative:

  • Buck critiques CNN's coverage for blaming ICE “tactics” when violence occurs, likening the argument to blaming law enforcement for violence against them. (12:39-13:53)
    • “The vehicle stops are dangerous because the gang members they’re trying to arrest don’t want to be arrested.”
      — Clay Travis (13:18)

Law Enforcement Backlash Expands

• Targeting Other Agencies:
  • After an incident in Minnesota, the hosts clarify it was FBI, not ICE vehicles that were targeted, highlighting a broadening hostility towards federal law enforcement. (20:03-21:05)
    • “It’s not just about ICE. It’s going to be about anyone...willing to enforce these laws.”
      — Clay Travis (21:05)
• Endgame Analysis:
  • Buck pushes the central question: “What is the end state supposed to be?” He and Clay agree the left is angling for open borders and no effective removal of illegal immigrants, arguing Democrats have no limiting principle. (21:58-23:18)

Economic and Michigan Politics Update (with Tudor Dixon)

• Trump Economic Agenda:
  • Tudor Dixon reports renewed optimism in Michigan with Trump “bringing manufacturing back,” highlighting bipartisan support for new policies among auto executives and workers. (24:45-26:06)
• Midterm Election Landscape:
  • Dixon describes Michigan as a bellwether for the country’s political direction, noting rising grassroots enthusiasm and economic concerns as key issues. (26:35-29:44)
• Governor’s Race Dynamics:
  • The rare “independent” campaign by Detroit’s former mayor Mike Duggan is dissected for its unpredictability and potential impact on Democratic chances. Dixon expresses skepticism at Duggan’s independence, suspecting he remains a Democrat at heart. (30:30-32:12)

Lighter Segments and Final Discussion

• College Football Banter:

  • Clay, Buck, and Tudor share predictions for the upcoming college football championship and reminisce about regional rivalries. (33:40-34:45)

• Healthcare Announcement:

  • Caroline Levitt, from the White House press briefing room, outlines Trump’s new “Great Health Care Plan” focused on lowering prescription drug costs, redirecting subsidies, price transparency, and holding insurers accountable. (40:29-41:36)
    • Notable quote:
      “The Great Health Care Plan will maximize price transparency by requiring any health care provider or insurer who accepts either Medicare or Medicaid to publicly and prominently post their pricing and fees to avoid surprise medical bills.”
      — Caroline Levitt (41:12)

• Economic Affordability as 2026 Midterm Theme:

  • The hosts see Trump’s focus on affordability across sectors (housing, healthcare, credit) as a strategic response to lessons learned from past midterm losses over healthcare. (41:36-43:39)
    • Notable quote:
      “Government gets out of the way, things get cheaper. Government gets involved, things get way more expensive.”
      — Buck Sexton (43:39)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “ICE is beyond reform...We need to make ICE go away.” — Rep. Shri Thanedar (05:58)
• “The Democrat position...they want the system to be broken. They broke it.” — Clay Travis (06:19)
• “Tom Homan believes that 2 million people roughly have self-deported...So roughly that would mean about 10% of the illegal population left in year one.” — Buck Sexton (07:52)
• “ICE is using taxpayer dollars to brutalize American citizens and to unnecessarily and viciously target law abiding immigrant families and communities.” — Hakeem Jeffries (09:39)
• “I know that ICE agents are going to get murdered. It’s just a question of when.” — Clay Travis (11:58)
• “What is the number that would be too many illegal immigrants in the country?...For most Democrats, 20 million is fine. So what if it were 40? What if it were 60?” — Buck Sexton (22:20)
• “We are bringing manufacturing back...auto manufacturing coming back to the United States...even the CEOs of the big three automakers saying they are thrilled with what Trump is doing.” — Tudor Dixon (24:45)
• “The Great Health Care Plan will maximize price transparency...” — Caroline Levitt (41:12)
• “Government gets out of the way, things get cheaper. Government gets involved, things get way more expensive.” — Buck Sexton (43:39)

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Important Timestamps

• [04:00] – History of “Abolish ICE” movement revisited
• [05:19] – Commentary on Rep. Shri Thanedar’s bill
• [07:17] – Trump-era immigration and deportation statistics
• [09:23] – Hakeem Jeffries’ criticism of ICE
• [11:58] – Prediction of violence against ICE agents
• [13:18] – CNN’s take on ICE “tactics”
• [20:03] – FBI vehicles targeted in Minnesota incident
• [21:58] – Open borders as perceived Democratic endgame
• [24:45] – Tudor Dixon on Michigan’s economic outlook
• [30:30] – Michigan governor’s race and the “independent” candidate
• [33:40] – College football banter
• [40:29] – Trump’s new healthcare plan announced
• [41:36] – Focus on affordability for midterms

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, direct, and combative, characteristic of talk radio
• Frequent sarcasm and mockery of Democratic figures and policies
• Use of statistics and anecdotes to bolster arguments
• Blending of serious immigration analysis with banter and lighter segments (sports, weather)

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Conclusion

This episode zeroes in on the return of the "Abolish ICE" push, situating it in a broader debate over border security, Democratic strategy, and Trump-era policy outcomes. The hosts argue that Democrats pursue de facto open borders and warn of rising anti-law enforcement sentiment. Tudor Dixon provides an on-the-ground view from Michigan, forecasting a strong Republican resurgence tied to economic factors. The hour wraps with new health care proposals and reflections on affordability as a wedge issue for the 2026 midterms.

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Transcript

[Clay Travis]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

Second.

[Clay Travis]

Hour of clay and Buck kicks off now. Yogi Berra once said it's deja vu all over again. He was a clever fellow, that Yogi Bearer, who's a sports fellow too.

[Buck Sexton]

But from what I understand, great Yankees.

[Clay Travis]

Catcher, and here we have that feeling because a member of Congress has returned. You will recall to what a previous member of Congress said. I think it was back in 2018 when AOC was leading the charge on abolish ICE. Aren't you seeing the connections here, my friends? Trump's first term, what was really the first thing that wasn't Russia, collusion, where they really dug in. Now, that was all a fabrication, as we know. That was a lie. It was deep state soft coup and all of that. But it was on immigration, Clay, that they made their first real stand against Trump policy. And it had to do with the family separation policy. That was the thing. Oh, my gosh. And it was aoc, remember that in. Dressed all in white, crying, holding the fence, and you started to hear Abolish ICE was the. Was the slogan. That was the phrase we're going to abolish. The problem with that, of course, is why wouldn't you get rid of the law that ICE is enforcing? Well, because then you'd have to just be open borders and everybody would know it. So what they want to do is get rid of the agency that enforces this law, but keep the law on the books, because then you won't have to have the political conversation and members of Congress won't have to take votes to show that they are open borders anyway, that it fizzled. But it is very much now back this time not because of border enforcement, because Trump got that one down. He figured out, you want to talk about learning from the first time out, Trump 2.0 has locked this border down. It is secure. Trump 1.0, they got them on the family separation issue because this was all being exploited. It was all parts of immigration law that were. There's complexities in this, but basically they figured out if you show up with a kid, you get to just come into the country. So then everyone starts showing up with kids. They go, well, we're gonna start, you know, processing the parents and we're gonna. And the kids are gonna be held in a separate facility. And then, oh, my gosh, you're breaking up families. Whole thing, Clay. I bring this up because this guy who's a member of Congress, which is even for Congress, pretty hard to believe. When you, when you check this guy out, SRI Thanadar, you see this guy?

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, yeah, he's the one with the ridiculous hair. For people who have. I mean, that's maybe not saying it, but I mean, this guy looks. His hair may be the most ridiculous Wig in all of Congress.

[Clay Travis]

It's pretty remarkable. He also speaks with a very thick foreign accent. Okay. And he is the. So you have the guy with probably the thickest foreign accent in Congress telling everybody that we need to get rid of the agency that enforces immigration law. Cut 12 wants to abolish ICE.

[Buck Sexton]

Listen to this.

[Clay Travis]

ICE is beyond reform.

[Tudor Dixon]

ICE is totally out of control.

[Clay Travis]

And this week I intend to, to introduce a bill to abolish ice. We need to make eyes go away.

[Buck Sexton]

I just want to know, Come on, Clay.

[Clay Travis]

They did this before, though. This isn't the first time we've been here. Abolish ice.

[Buck Sexton]

So.

[Clay Travis]

So everyone gets to your question before about how many illegals everyone gets to stay. Yeah, the Democrat position. You're increasingly seeing all that stuff about how they want to enforce the law too. And they want to. They just. The immigration system's broken. They want to fix it. No, actually they want it to be broken. They broke it.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, they want open borders. And I think that guy we just heard from, if I'm not mistaken, team in New York, you can research it. I think he was the first one to introduce impeachment proceedings against President Trump. I mean, obviously did not get very many votes. But that is the reality under which this motivation is occurring because Trump has for the first time, I don't know if you saw this, this story out there for the first time I think in several generations. I think going back to before Reagan, there were fewer people that came into the country. During Trump 2.0, like we actually had a decline in migrants.

[Clay Travis]

An entire net migration play is negative in last year for the first time since the 1920s, which is an incredible data point.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

Here I've actually got the numbers monthly flow. I've got the monthly flow of net immigration 50. It's basically been 50,000 a year for the last 30 years. And then under Biden, it went to 200,000. Biden just kicked the borders open. Everybody. This is what they did. And now with Trump, it's negative 145,000.

[Buck Sexton]

Per month so far in the first year. And now look the exact numbers. Tom Holman, I actually saw him yesterday at the White House. Tom Homan believes that 2 million people roughly have self deported that has leave the left the country on their own. And we know that there's been deportation of around 600,000 people. So the number out there, I think that that that number is based on that you just referenced, is roughly 2.6 million people leaving. Now, Tom Holman said that there's 20 million illegals in the country. So roughly that would mean about 10% of the illegal population left in year one. The challenge you're seeing there if you do basic math on this is even if Trump kept the exact same pace up and the self deportation percentages remain the same, we're still basically getting to a place where, I mean, we're getting down to 12 million illegals instead of 20. It's a huge number. And this was really the calculus behind Biden opening up the border. It was that when all these people get here, it basically becomes impossible to ever get them to leave. And that's the calculus. This was not a four year plan. This is a multi generational plan by which they want to change the character and, and the populace of the United States. It's very calculated in intent and Trump is pushing back against it.

[Clay Travis]

You have some really crazy and reckless things being said by members of Congress. For example. Well, one here is Hakeem Jeffries, former Speaker of the House. This is cut 16. He's just saying, he keeps repeating this thing about how they're brutalizing immigrant families. Play 16. Clearly significant reform needs to take place as it relates to the manner in which ICE is conducting itself. ICE is using taxpayer dollars to brutalize American citizens and to unnecessarily and viciously target law abiding immigrant families and communities. The whole premise that Donald Trump sold to the American people was that this immigration enforcement activity was going to target violent felons. It's not targeting violent felons. They're targeting American families, brutalizing American communities. And now, as we've seen, killing American citizens. This is out of control.

[Buck Sexton]

This is what they brutalize. Yeah, this is, look, I mean, Renee Good, deep down when she was shot, every Democrat politician like Hakeem Jeffries was excited by this. And you can say, well, Clay, you're being cruel there when you say this. Not really. Axio said they had a story this summer where they specifically laid out that Democrats were training people and they were hoping that there would be a violent act so that they could use that as an argument of a political nature to try to stop these ICE raids from occurring. That is, this was their hoped for action. I hate to say it, but they hope that others will be shot too. They are willing to sacrifice on the altar of politics, life. And it's quite clear because then they can come out and they can say, see, this is what happens. American citizens are being brutalized and killed by ice. This is unacceptable. This is what they wanted to happen. This is why they're telling everybody to show up with their phones. This is why they're telling everybody to get in the face of all these ICE agents. This is why you have so many people, so many people that have decided to make it their life's work to show up and scream and bang pots and pans and honk horns and insult and spit on all these ICE agents out there. And they're just making the situation, danger, violence is going to ensue. And this is why I said earlier in the last hour, Buck, I'm already angry because I know that ICE agents are going to get murdered. It's just a question of when. We've already seen it. They have. They have set the kettle to boil and it's inevitable what's going to happen. You know it, I know it. Every person out there listening knows that we're going to turn on our televisions or we're going to look down at our phones and there's going to be innocent ICE agents murdered. And you pointed out, Buck on Blue sky, they'll be tap dancing on their graves.

[Clay Travis]

They're, they're also. Absolutely. And they're also preparing to blame ICE and the murdered ICE agents for the violence that you and I both see as imminent against them over at CNN. Abby. Phillip, the tactics of ICE, that's putting them at risk. Play 14.

[Tudor Dixon]

DHS says that this was a targeted enforcement operation and that the ICE officer was attacked. And I do think that is exactly the type of situation that we want few of those situations as possible to transpire. And yet it seems like all the time there are all kinds of interactions happening where ICE officers are put in danger. And I'm not sure if it's all just because of, you know, violent people attacking them sometimes. It's also the tactics that I think are putting them in at risk with vehicle stops, which there have been some reporting about how these vehicle stops are so dangerous.

[Clay Travis]

The vehicle stops are dangerous because the gang members they're trying to arrest don't want to be arrested.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Clay Travis]

Go figure. This is crazy stuff that is. But I'm telling you, this is going to be the thing. Well, if they hadn't been in these communities, the terrible thing that you and I think is going to happen. I agree with you. I think it's going to happen just a matter of days. If they hadn't been in these communities, it wouldn't have happened. Imagine if we took that approach to straight up like gang enforcement activities by cops. Right. Oh, if they hadn't been making those arrests. Of the Bloods and the Crips. They wouldn't have had the cops to shoot at in the first place.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, this is the argument they made in Washington, D.C. when the guy traveled across the country and killed two innocent National Guards people, I guess killed one and severely wounded the other. I believe that's the final result. I think the one of. I think they were both from West Virginia, if I'm not mistaken. I think one of those individuals survived. They said this is Trump's fault for calling out the National Guard. They created this situation. Um, look, they motivated that crazy person who, if I remember correctly, was an Afghan refugee who was led into the country without being soundly vetted, who lost his mind, who drove across the country and killed two or attempted to kill two innocent people, among others. When this happens with ice, what did they immediately say? Even the media put up like, oh, look, Trump made these people targets by trying to reduce violent crime, by trying to make the city of Washington safe. You notice, Buck, you're not hearing much about how effective that has been. I'm in Washington, D.C. right now. City is way safer statistically than it has been almost in a generation. Nobody's talking about it.

[Clay Travis]

This is what the left does, whether it's fighting against any kind of terrorists, fighting against crime. It's always the thing you're doing to address the problem is the real problem. Yes, the fighting against the bad thing is the cause of the bad thing. Classic communist tactic. Total nonsense.

[Buck Sexton]

Yesterday, I saw President Trump in the Oval Office and I actually thanked him for the impact that the surge is having in Memphis. Again, nobody's talking about it. New Orleans, way safer. Washington, D.C. way safer. President wants to go into a lot of other cities and make them infinitely safer, too. You'll notice when he has that success, the story just vanishes. Remember, Buck, everybody said, oh, that's never going to work. Oh, there's no way. If you put more people on the streets that things are going to get safer. Uh, actually, things got way safer.

[Clay Travis]

Yes, they did.

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in Clay Travis, Buck Sexton show one bit of correction. The cars looted and broken into last night in Minnesota, they weren't even ICE vehicles. They were actually FBI vehicles, according to Secretary Noem speaking a little bit earlier today. So it wasn't even the case that all these people who hate ice, Buck, were even engaging in anti ICE behavior. They were actually breaking into and stealing FBI related paraphernalia and details. And you could speak to this because your time in the CIA, hopefully that information that they stole isn't actually going to significantly endanger the lives of some FBI agents who might be undercover and suddenly have their information floating around in the streets of Minneapolis, to say nothing of the weapon that was seized as well.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, I think it's indicative also of how this is just going to continue to expand and get uglier and more reckless. It's not just about ice. It's going to be about anyone on the law in the law enforcement community who's willing to enforce these laws. That's what's going to happen. That's going to be the reality here. So anyone who is working alongside ice, because there will be places where there are other agencies like, like this one FBI, other agencies involved. You know, U.S. marshals could be involved, a whole range of different entities, and they're going to have maniacs, you know, throwing things at them and spitting at them and calling them names and everything else, too. It's disgraceful. You know what's so interesting to me, Clay, is the people that are so angry about all of this are unwilling to say what it is that they really want the end game here to be.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

What is the end state supposed to be? And the end state is supposed to be open borders, no enforcement of immigration law.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Clay Travis]

Because even when they find out that the guys that they were going after in some of these cases are really bad hombres to bother borrow from Trump, they still don't like what ICE is doing. So then what does that mean no.

[Buck Sexton]

Look, they're perspective is that these people should be able to stay here forever and that nothing should happen to them at all. And that's why I come back to. To me, the real question is, what is the number that would be too many illegal immigrants in the country? Because clearly for most Democrats, they've decided 20 million. Tom Holman's number. 20 million is fine. So what if it were 40? What if it were 60? At what point would Democrats say, you know what? I think we have too much of an illegal immigrant population in this country. When would they draw the line? For a lot of us, our line is we shouldn't have any right. If you want to legally immigrate to this country, that's fine, but we should have a secure southern and northern border and we should have no one here who doesn't belong in this country. No one violating our laws. Democrats have basically decided that it is their party orthodoxy to defend everyone here illegal and argue that they should be able to stay.

[Clay Travis]

Madness. Madness, my friends. All right. There are a lot of reasons why you should be a Lifelock member, but the number one reason is their online systems. Do something you cannot do on your own. LifeLock monitors billions of online transactions weekly, looking for evidence that your online identity has fallen into the wrong hands and is being used without your permission or knowledge. What a cyber hacker can do in an hour with your credit card info or even your Social Security number is incredible and incredibly scary. If it wasn't illegal and totally violating, it would be something you'd have to say, wow, look at the ingenuity. Scary part is you have no knowledge that that's happening, though. But LifeLock notifies you the minute something's going on with your online identity. You need Lifelock. I've had it for years. Lifelock will let you know. And if not, if you somehow still become a victim, Lifelock will assign you a Restoration Specialist. Join now. Save 40 off your first year with promo code BUCK. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK or go online to lifelock.com use promo code BUCK for 40% off terms apply. Welcome back in to Clay Anne Buck. We are joined by our friend Tudor Dixon. She comes to us from the great state of Michigan. She's the host of the Tudor Dixon show on the Clay and Buck Podcast network. Tudor, been a bit happy 2026. Great to have you on. Tell us a bit about Trump's visit to Michigan. He was just in Motor City, Clay's wife's hometown, and he was talking about the economy. What do you make of where he's taking things, how things are looking, and how are things going up in Michigan?

[Tudor Dixon]

Yes. Happy New Year. Everything is going well now that we have President Trump in office, because we are bringing manufacturing back. And you could see that when he was there at the auto factory, because everybody obviously is very excited that we have auto manufacturing coming back to the United States, because that means we will actually get business in Michigan. Because if you know a little bit about the history under Gretchen Whitmer, she was really pushing the historical auto industry out of Michigan and saying, oh, we're going to bring EV batteries to Michigan and we're going to have a future of automotive that's going to be electric. Obviously, that wasn't working out, but interestingly, even in her plot to do that, she wasn't actually getting the battery factories from Biden. He was looking past Michigan and going all different places. They were going to Indiana, they were going to Ohio. Michigan was really struggling and our autoworkers were going, eh, we want to support her, but what's going to happen? And then Trump came in and they just totally flipped. They said, we're done with Democrats, we're going with Trump. Even Sean Fain has had to come out and say that he is happy about auto manufacturing coming back. And you've got the CEOs of the big three automakers saying they are thrilled with what Trump is doing. It could not be going better with Michigan manufacturing under President Trump.

[Buck Sexton]

Tudor, if I had to pick, and I told you this, I mean, I was up with your Republican event at Mackinac island this summer, but if I had to pick one place that I sort of could point to and say, tell me what happens in this state. I'll tell you how the midterms are going to go. It would be Michigan because you have an open governor's race, you have an open Senate seat. How would you assess the on the ground vibe right now in Michigan as we sit, you know, basically nine, ten months away from the midterm?

[Tudor Dixon]

Absolutely. Michigan is, I believe, the way Michigan goes, goes the nation. I think that the Senate seat is critical for how people are going to vote in general for Republicans. But we are seeing so much more energy in the state than we even had in 24. We had a lot of energy for President Trump in 24, but I think now that they're really seeing the results. We have such high prices in Michigan. It is even. So everything is a higher cost in Michigan. In the Midwest, we. We are the highest when it comes to energy. When it comes to gas. And as people in Michigan start to see gas prices going down and they hear President Trump saying, I'm going to work on your electric bill in your house. I'm going to get your groceries down, there is more energy for him because they're actually seeing it. You know, they were promised this under Joe Biden. They were promised this under Gretchen Whitmer. They are now actually seeing it. And they're saying, we know what can happen if things go sideways in these midterms, because we already have people promising to impeach him. I mean, we've got Shri who is out there saying he's going to abolish ice. We've got Rashida Tlaib, who is threatening the president constantly. I mean, we have some of the worst of the worst Democrats. So people are well aware of what could happen if Republicans don't win.

[Clay Travis]

What do you think are the most important areas other than immigration enforcement? Looking into more the economic side of things, things which we know it's always going to be a huge player in the midterms, and we are already in that midterm cycle. It's early, but we're in it now. What do you think are some of the key initiatives that Trump can push for that will be helpful, not just in your home state of Michigan, of course, but across the country?

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, I think it really is lowering costs and getting and promising that we're going to have a better situation with the Fed, that we're going to get interest rates down when it comes to buying homes. People, that housing crisis that I keep hearing about from Democrats, I really believe that message is give us money and the government will own all of the property. President Trump has a totally different message. I'm going to make sure that your interest rate is lower so you can actually go out and buy a house and you will build it and you will own it and it will go back to the hands of the people. The Democrats want to take everything from us. So as long as it is about you're going to be able to afford things and you're going to be safe doing it, that's going to be the message. But I'm going to say in Michigan, I will say we have the highest electricity costs in so highest energy costs in the Midwest. And for us specifically, we have a lot of fears over these data centers. We had Howard Lutnick on your show actually, over the holidays, and he was talking about how President Trump is going to ensure that the energy, we have an increased source of energy, and we're going to be able to go into the future with AI and all of the new technologies that are coming, but it's not going to cost you. You're actually going to see lower prices in your own personal energy bill. And that's what people. People want those fears to be taken away. They want to make sure that they're safe and that their cost is going to stay low.

[Buck Sexton]

We're talking to Tutor Dixon. She guest hosted thank you. During the holiday break. She's a part of the Clay and Buck podcast network. You can find her there going into this Michigan governor's race because we got a big audience in Michigan. It's really weird and I think it's going to get more attention as it goes forward, but I don't know how many people have noticed it yet. There is an independent who is currently the. The mayor of Detroit, or was the mayor of Detroit, Mike Duggan. You don't see this happen very much. You've got the Republican, you've got the Democrat. They've got the primary to figure out who the nominees are going to be. But Mike Duggan is saying he's going to run as an independent. Do you feel like he's going to run? How is this going to play out as the Detroit mayor? This feels like it will throw a total wrench into the equation there.

[Tudor Dixon]

Well, it is throwing a total wrench. I mean, even pollsters are like, we don't know how to pull this race now because an independent is really hard to factor into the whole equation. So he's a. He's a Democrat. Let us be clear about something. He is running as an independent. He was a. His son worked for Kamala Harris. He was a delegate. He is a Democrat who through and through. He thinks right now that if he comes out as an independent, it makes it easier for him to run. But interestingly, I think there are a couple of factors at play right now. I think he's seen that Jocelyn Benson will be the nominee for the Democrats. If he doesn't get in, he could still jump back into that race as a Democrat and he would likely kick her butt, which would be very interesting because if he jumps into that race as a Democrat, that does hurt Republicans. We want him to stay as an Independent if he stays as an independent. Right now, Democrats don't win the governor's race in the state of Michigan. But Democrats are also very slippery and sneaky, and they could very easily go to him and say, hey, buddy, you're one of us. Come on, let's not lie we'll grease your palm here. We'll get you there, we'll move you around. You'll have a big position. Get out of this race. The ballot is not set until it is actually printed. There's another factor. Jocelyn Benson controls that. She is the Democrat running for governor. She's the Secretary of State right now. Remember what she did with rfk? Wouldn't let him off or wouldn't let him off the ballot. Wouldn't put Cornel west on the ballot. She controls a lot of this. She could easily say he doesn't have the signatures. I looked at him myself. She could keep him off the ballot and there would be no check on her power because it's all Democrats in control.

[Buck Sexton]

Last question for you, Tudor. Encourage you to all go subscribe Tutor Addiction Podcast, part of the Clay and Buck Podcast Network. Do people in Michigan, and I know to a certain extent Ohio and Pennsylvania look around and say, boy, at least we're not Minnesota. Those people have gone totally crazy. It is culturally kind of interesting how Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania tend to move together and Minnesota's just kind of spiraled off into its own world of cocoon of crazy.

[Tudor Dixon]

I mean, I think it's sort of like, remember the Chaz Zone where we were all like, what is happening out in Seattle? Like, these people are n. It is sort of like this weird progressive zone. We don't see it here because we don't actually have someone who is actively fighting ICE in Gretchen Whitmer right now. I'm not saying that she wouldn't. I'm just saying that she wants to be president. So she's a little smarter about how she vocalizes things. Tim Walls is a moron. So he's out there every day like, I'm going to start a civil war. And people are shocked about that, but they don't see it as real life. I don't think the rest of the country sees that as real life. I think they see that as kind of like one of these dust ups like we saw with the Chaz Zone and oh, that'll settle down eventually. But Tim Walls in the meantime, is telling people to go put their lives in harm's way. He is reckless, reckless and it's dangerous.

[Clay Travis]

What's happening out there, Tudor On Monday, Clay is taking me to the national championship college football game. Who is going to win this game?

[Buck Sexton]

Indiana. Miami is the championship game. Tutor. Since Michigan has been eliminated, Ohio State has been eliminated. As a Michigander, Indiana or the University of Miami, who should buck? Ruth.

[Tudor Dixon]

So you know, you know Sarah, who works with me, is an Indiana grad. She is literally sitting in front of me right now like threat daggers in her eyes saying, it's Indiana, don't you. She would. She will kill me if I say anything else.

[Clay Travis]

So, see, I was wondering if you were going to, as a Michigander, throw Indiana under the bus as a little bit of rivalry. But I know that's only for Wisconsin, right? You only, only kick snow in the face of Wisconsin.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, you actually Kentucky grads have a reason not to like Indiana from a basketball perspective. That was a good rivalry back in the day.

[Tudor Dixon]

Yes, exactly. But I have to be loyal to the people I work with.

[Clay Travis]

I guess Indiana. There you go. It's going to be my beloved Hurricanes play.

[Buck Sexton]

Buck is on the side of Miami. He's going to the big college football game. And for you Michiganders, this is not going to sound that tough, but it's actually going to be a bit nippy down at the game. It's going to be like 55 degrees at kick. I don't even know if people in Miami are going to be able to handle this. It's got cold for Miami on Monday. Tutor, keep up the good work. Thanks for guest hosting and keep rolling with the podcast.

[Tudor Dixon]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

[Buck Sexton]

That is Tutor Dixon. We were just talking about the college football playoff game. I'll be down in Miami. Are you prepared for this, by the way? 55 degrees. Are you ready? I mean, that's what it's supposedly going to be at kick in Miami. I mean, are you going to be able to be outside? Like, are you going to be your soft.

[Clay Travis]

Now what you will love is that there will be actual human beings in ski parkas walking around in Miami because there's only two. There's shorts, T shirt weather here and oh my God, am I on a ski trip. That's it. They have nothing else.

[Buck Sexton]

You know, when I lived in the Virgin Islands, I don't know how many other people have seen this. In the Caribbean, if you go to a grocery store, they dress like they're on a ski lift. The natives, the Caribbean natives do. Working in the frozen food department. I, I promise you, if you've never seen this, it is really remarkable. If you're in the Caribbean. When I lived in the US Virgin Islands, you would go in to go get milk or you'd go in to go get something that is in the frozen food aisle. And they walk. They legitimately look like they just stepped off the ski lift because it's the coldest. Place they could be. That's totally what I'm anticipating the game looking like at Hard Rock Stadium on Monday night. But I'm also going to be kicking back Saturday, Sunday watching the NFL and here is my pick for prize picks. Brock Purdy, Josh Allen, Bo Nix, Drake May all to Throw more than 1/2 touchdown all you have to do is click more. You can play in all 50 states buck get your prize picks app up. Use code Clay. I've already made this pick myself. Use code Clay. You get $50 in credits when you play, $5 when you use code CLAY. California, Texas, Georgia, nationwide, all 50 states. You can play along with us. Brock Purdy, Josh Allen, Bo, Nix, Drake May all to throw more than 1/2 touchdown. That's prizepix.com code clay download the prizepix app, go to prizepix.com Code Clay and you will be hooked up pricepix.com Code Clay.

[Clay Travis]

You ain't imagining it.

[Buck Sexton]

The world has gone insane. Reclaim your sanity with Clay and Buck. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Must be 21 or older.

[Buck Sexton]

In a jurisdiction where Better Picks operates, terms and conditions apply. Better Picks Sports just got better Chris.

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Stapleton's All American Road.

[Clay Travis]

With special guests. Get tickets Friday, January 16, 10am at.

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. We'll get into Kamala's $8 million house, maybe some in the third hour we'll about talk a little bit about Greenland. I was doing some Greenland research, but Caroline Levitt is right now in the White House press briefing room and I believe boys and girls, we have a couple of cuts of things that she just said. Let's listen.

[Caroline Levitt]

President Trump unveiled a health care plan for America called the Great Health Care Plan. The Great Health Care Plan will accomplish this through four common sense pillars. Number one, permanently lowering prescription drug prices. Congress can get this done by codifying President Trump's historic most favored nation initiatives into law to guarantee Americans the same low prices for prescription drugs that people in other countries around the world pay. Two, the Great Health Care Plan will stop sending big insurance companies billions in extra tax funded subsidy payments and instead send that money directly to eligible Americans to allow them to buy the health insurance of their choice. Number three, the Great Health Care Plan will maximize price transparency by requiring any health care provider or insurer who accepts either Medicare or Medicaid to publicly and prominently post their pricing and fees to avoid surprise medical bills. And number four, holds big insurance companies accountable by requiring them to publish rate and coverage comparisons up front on their websites in plain English.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, so Buck, clearly there has been a calculated attempt for the start of 2026 when you look at the president with plans on home affordability, health care even we had that big discussion about credit card interest debt. The President has decided that affordability is going to be a big part of 2026 and I think he's recognized that it may well decide the outcome of the midterm elections. Not necessarily what the data shows, but how people are feeling about the data and whether it feels like he understands the concerns of people like them.

[Clay Travis]

We got smoked in the 2018 midterms and the data show that it was health care got smoked. Remember, we're going to repeal Obamacare. We didn't repeal Obamacare. It was, it was a rough one. And so again, notice Trump, the team, they've learned lessons from the first, which is what you want, right? You want people to understand they're getting ahead of this, they're on it. And I think that really pricing and transparency and making as much of this as more of this market based is those are the basic principles you want to increase. I mean, we have screwed health care up in this country so much, so badly, it's, it's pretty astonishing actually how. And all you have to do is look at what it costs before the.

[Buck Sexton]

Government gets involved in anything. Look at what education costs, look at what health care cost. The more the government decides to wade in on anything that you go look at. Like compare healthcare cost. Buck, I saw a good graphic on this that I thought was super interesting. Compare the pace of health care cost with flat screen televisions. Do you remember a generation ago when a flat screen television basically cost an arm and a leg? I mean, it felt like when you got that first HD flat screen television, it cost four or $5,000 was how much those things cost.

[Clay Travis]

I remember needing help from friends in college to carry like my big ass TV up the stairs because I think it weighed about 100 and something pounds.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, it was a mess. And now you go to Walmart or you go to Costco or Sam's or any of these places, you can get a 45 inch flat screen television for like 200 bucks. I mean, it's unbelievable. Government gets out of the way, things get cheaper, government gets involved, things get way more expensive. Unfortunately, that's a lesson that a lot of people in on Capitol Hill still haven't learned. We come back, Buck Greenland, Greenland talk. Kamala Harris, your girl, 107 days. She now has an $8 million house in Malibu. We will dive into both of those stories. Among others, we'll keep you updated on what's going on in Minneapolis as well as we roll into the final hour Thursday edition of the program.

[Clay Travis]

I bet they paid her so much for that crappy book even though it didn't sell. This is the one. This is one of these. Because a lot of these big publishers, they're just run by libs or libs and they will write a huge check to some Democrat politician just as like it's good for the cause.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes.

[Public Ad Read]

No way.

[Clay Travis]

Kamala's book I read it is terrible.

[Buck Sexton]

It is terrible. The house $8 million she's cashing in. We'll talk about it next.

[Clay Travis]

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Days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere. You turn every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI.

[Clay Travis]

As a consumer, you decide which companies succeed with your purchasing power. PureTalk wants to say a heartfelt thank you for choosing them. Because of you, PureTalk had a record breaking year. You've helped them donate over half a million dollars to America's Warrior Partnership to help prevent veteran suicide. You also help provide 1000 hand sewn made in America flags to veterans. And you're supporting US jobs by choosing a proudly American company from the PureTalk family. Thank you for your trust and God Bless America.

[Tudor Dixon]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Clay Travis]

Guaranteed Human.