Hour 2 - There is No Kirk Conspiracy

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 2 - There is No Kirk Conspiracy
Date: July 7, 2026
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

This episode centers on the ongoing high-profile trial of Tyler Robinson, charged with the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton directly confront the swirl of conspiracy theories questioning Robinson's guilt, aiming to dispel online rumors and defend evidence-based reasoning. They also address the larger theme of American conspiratorial thinking, why it’s uniquely potent in today's climate, and the effects such thinking has on grieving families and public discourse. Throughout, their tone is direct, exasperated, and occasionally raw, as they defend rational analysis over “crazy town” conspiracy culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Evidence in the Charlie Kirk Assassination Trial

• Open-and-shut case: Both hosts repeatedly stress the overwhelming nature of the evidence against Tyler Robinson, referring to surveillance footage, ballistic evidence, and text messages.
  • Clay: “This guy is guilty. … It's red handed on video, all the text messages, everything that you could ever think would be present for this kind of a case.” (10:09)
• Transparency plea: They urge listeners to consult primary sources (videos, trial documents) rather than internet commentary, highlighting their own diligence as journalists.
  • Clay: “Go watch the trial proceedings right now that are taking place. You don't have to trust me. … There is source material that everybody should be able to operate off of.” (09:12)

2. Debunking Conspiracy Theories

• Motivations and logic: The hosts dissect the logic (or lack thereof) behind claims of a broader conspiracy, emphasizing how difficult it would be to coordinate a cover-up involving the Kirk family, law enforcement, and public figures.
  • Buck: “You have to be an evil person to believe that Erica Kirk…doesn’t want the person who killed her husband held accountable for it.” (12:15)
  • Clay: “Accusing someone of having someone that they care about deeply murdered is right up there with the worst possible thing you could say about a person.” (13:45)
• Cui bono (“Who benefits?”): They challenge listeners to identify who would actually benefit from an alleged cover-up, underlining that none of the involved families, witnesses, or high-profile supporters would have plausible motive. (26:18)

3. The Tumult of Modern Conspiracism

• Erosion of trust: The episode situates Kirk-related conspiracy chatter in a broader American context, where widespread government mistrust—fuelled by COVID-19, controversies involving the FBI, and public scandals—has created a culture where some believe “nothing.”
  • Buck: “So many conspiracies related to Covid ended up being true… people just don't trust anything now.” (06:31)
• Destructive online culture: The hosts lament the nature of internet ecosystems, in which inflammatory content gets more clicks, and even bereaved family members become targets for online abuse.
  • Buck: “Most of the people who have treated Erica Kirk the worst are on the right.” (15:14)

4. Audience Responsibility & The Media’s Role

• Don’t reward “crazy town”: They emphasize the need for audience members to demand accuracy and accountability from commentators, instead of gravitating toward outlandish claims.
  • Clay: “If you have an audience, the audience is actually the accountability measure.”
• Failings of the right and left: The hosts note that, while the left has exhibited “more hate” since the assassination, the right has produced the most extreme conspiracies. (15:56)

5. Engaging Callers: Conspiracy Thinking in Real Time

• Pushback against conspiracy advocates: Multiple callers express doubts about the evidence, invoking alternative theories about ballistics and the investigation. Clay and Buck remain firm, pressing them on logic and motive.
  • Caller Andy: “I just, I don't believe the official story at all.” (30:12)
  • Buck: “So, okay, who do. Who in your mind, who killed Charlie Kirk?” (31:15)
  • Caller Andy: “I can't speak to that. I don't know them at all. Never met them, you know.” (31:43)
• Hosts’ exasperation and methodical rebuttal: The hosts challenge callers by referencing personal experience, logic, and expertise, ultimately framing the callers’ beliefs as baseless and irrational.
  • Clay: “Do you think they [the FBI, the ATF] know more than you about this? … You say you don't trust the atf. You think they're framing somebody for Charlie's murder. I mean, really?” (33:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Clay: “There is a not insubstantial conspiracy community that has convinced itself that Tyler Robinson is not the shooter… The evidence, again, the jury will decide, but it seems overwhelming to me.” (01:40)
• Buck: “It's a very lazy way to get attention… to just say space aliens with lasers who look like lizards are the real people behind all of this.” (05:55)
• Clay: “There were Internet rumors about Mitch McConnell everywhere… So much for those Internet rumors, right?” (03:46)
• Buck: “You shouldn't 100% trust anybody in media because we can all get things that are wrong.” (09:12)
• Clay: “Accusing someone of having someone they care about deeply murdered is right up there with the worst possible thing you could say about a person.” (13:45)
• Clay: “There’s been more hate about Charlie on the left overall… but crazier things are said about the assassination on the right.” (15:56)
• Buck: “Most of the people who have treated Erica Kirk the worst are on the right… that's a huge indictment of the culture on the Internet of the right.” (15:41)
• Clay to conspiracy-minded caller: “Let me ask you respectfully. What do you know about gunshot wounds? And what do you know about ballistics?” (33:27)
• Buck: “I think a lot of these people, candidly, who think that Charlie Kirk was killed by someone other than this guy, I think they've gone into crazy town.” (29:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:06]: Episode theme intro – trial updates begin
• [01:40]: Detailed discussion of evidence against Tyler Robinson
• [03:46]: Online rumors vs. reality; CIA/cover-up dismissals
• [05:55]: Satirical breakdown of internet conspiracies
• [09:12]: Importance of referencing source material and trial transparency
• [10:09]: Dismissal of JFK-style conspiracism; emotional appeal for rationality
• [12:15]: Buck’s moral outrage at the suggestion of family complicity
• [15:14]: Discussion of treatment of Erica Kirk and internet culture failures
• [21:11]: Caller Charles breaks down “dangerous phenomena” of conspiracy culture
• [30:07]: “Andy from crazy town” caller segment; hosts’ patient deconstruction of conspiracy logic

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Tone and Language

The overall language is blunt, often exasperated, and deeply skeptical of conspiracy logic. Both Clay and Buck use strongly emotional and moral arguments (“you have to be an evil person…”) and regularly lapse into rhetorical questioning and sarcasm to highlight perceived absurdities. There is persistent encouragement to “be rational,” “go to the original documents,” and reject “cult behavior.”

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Summary Conclusion

This episode provides a robust, detailed debunking of conspiracy theories surrounding the Charlie Kirk assassination trial, serving as both a critique of specific “Kirk conspiracy” claims and a broader commentary on America’s recent susceptibility to outlandish, facts-optional thinking. Clay and Buck proceed methodically, emphasize transparency, and stress empathy for victims’ families, while repeatedly challenging callers and listeners to reconsider belief in massive cover-ups absent rational motive or credible evidence. Their frustration, humor, and personal appeals combine to make a forceful case for hard-headed skepticism and humanity in the face of “crazy town” culture.

Transcript

[Clay]

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[Clay]

Second hour of Clay and Buck kicks off right now. Thanks for, for being here, everybody. And a couple things going on right now. One is the beginning of the the early stages, I should say, of the trial for the alleged assassin of Charlie Kirk that is underway. Clay, you've been following this pretty closely. Are there any surprises, anything, you know, anything noteworthy so far other than what we've already reported and believe to be the facts of the case?

[Buck]

I think, yeah, it's a good question. There is a not insubstantial conspiracy community that has convinced itself that Tyler Robinson is not the shooter and let me just not the assassin of Charlie Kirk. And again, they're just releasing a lot of the evidence. They have this guy, Tyler Robinson, who has been charged with the assassination of Charlie Kirk. This is from Brecken Thes who is covering it for the Federalist. This trial that's taking place in Utah says the first part of the video that they have released shows Robinson on the parking garage. They show him on campus. They also then show a video. Again, all of this is video of him walking with a limp as he is going up the stairs. And it's very different from the other videos that are shown earlier in the day when he does not have a limp and the one of the legs is not bending at all. And one of the judge, one of the officers testifies that Officer Bagley did that. He is walking that way because he's got a rifle alongside of his leg and he's trying to avoid bending his knee because he can't bend his knee because he's got the gun that he's hiding. And then there's tons of evidence of him on the roof. I think, Buck, this is going to be an open and shut case. And I hope that they put all of this, as much of it public as they can because I think again, the fact that he visits all this time and is spending as much time on campus and there's all this evidence, again, the jury will decide, but it seems overwhelming to me based on all the evidence that Tyler Robinson committed this shooting. And I understand there are people out there that say, oh well, it could be somebody else again, that's going to be the defense. I don't think there's a very good defense for it being anyone else.

[Clay]

Now, are people who currently believe that there is a vast conspiracy going to change their minds on this issue no matter what evidence is presented? I think the answer, unfortunately is largely going to be no. And, and I can tell you, having now this is of course CIA guy saying this, right? I'm CIA, he's CIA. But a lot of stuff is said about the CIA that having been on the inside and been out now for a long time, 15 years, is just kind of laughable and absurd. And people believe it because they want to believe it. Who would, who would be a part of the justice machinery here, which includes state investigators, police, the FBI, that would all, imagine keeping them all quiet and having them all be a part of some cover up and conspiracy in this case, it's just absurd. There's no one who's come forward from any of this and said there's actually something amiss here in terms of the investigators are being stymied or there's some political pressure or there's some. And yet the Internet rumors about, look there, we just talked about this. There were Internet rumors about Mitch McConnell everywhere, Internet rumors. And then you get Scott Jennings, his friend, he says he called him, he's talking this morning and he seems to be in good spirits. So so much for those Internet rumors, right? Which were very loud and very prominent for the last 48 hours or so particularly. And now there's also a lot of Internet rumors about this. And I would just say, Clay, in a time where conspiracy unfortunately sells and gets clicks and gets attention in a very rapid way, it's very clear that's the case. It's also a very lazy way to get attention. You know, what's a harder thing to do to be consistently accurate, intelligent, insightful and creative in your presentation of News and facts and commentary. Or just say that there's actually space aliens with lasers who look like lizards who are. Who are the real people behind all of this. And just stay with me. In a few days, I'll be able to prove this to you. And anyone who tells you otherwise. By the way, they are part of the space alien lizard conspiracy, and it's exactly what they would say.

[Buck]

I agree with everything that you just said. I think the big challenge here, it's Covid, Some conspiracy. So many conspiracies related to Covid ended up being true that there is a, I think not insubstantial collection of Americans of all different backgrounds that just don't trust anything now.

[Clay]

Well, but so. So I think that there's. That's absolutely true. And I'm not trying to in any way ignore or downplay that, Clay, because obviously I agree with you, and I think that that's been a huge. It's been devastating. And also the FBI has taken a tremendous hit. Credibility and everything.

[Buck]

Yes.

[Clay]

But when you look at Covid or you look at the FBI and where it has failed in the past, you look at these things. There were a lot of us at every stage saying, guys, this is wrong. They're lying to you. Here's. Here's the. Here's what's going on here. Here's why Fauci's full of it. Here's why you can't trust. Here's why. You know. You know what I mean?

[Buck]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That.

[Clay]

That is something that you could. You could always look at and say, I'm not part of some, like, secret society that has. That thinks. It has the special answer here that nobody else who I've trusted and believed in and has been right, by the way, over and over in other things thinks is real. I think that may be a good way of understanding the conspiracy. Here are the people that align with your ideals and values on everything else also saying that this is a problem. You know, like Russia collusion, for example. Clay, was that a conspiracy? Yes, it was. I was saying it. Hannity was saying it. Glenn Beck was saying it. Rush was saying it. Mark Levin was saying. I mean, go to. You know, everybody was saying, hey, guys, this is a. Or, you know, there's a conspiracy. There's a. This is what's happening all across the board. It wasn't one person or a handful of people who claimed to have some secret truth that, by the way, they're not trying to convince anybody else in the movement of really, they're just trying to, like, Send people after them like, you know, feral maniacs to shout at them and say they're part of the conspiracy as well. This is. That's cult behavior. That's not political analysis and commentary. And with this Charlie Kirk thing, the facts are being presented. I don't want to hear about alternative facts or, or grand conspiracies or anything else. Unless somebody can tell me why what is apparent is false, I don't really want to hear it. I don't know what else there is to say.

[Buck]

This is why the trial needs to be as public as possible. And this is why I would encourage you guys to actually go to the source documents. You can go watch the trial proceedings right now that are taking place. You don't have to trust me. You don't have to trust Buck. I always come back to read the original documents. Watch the actual videos for yourself. Don't watch the way the media covers stories. Don't watch the way just Buck and I talk about the stories. There is source material that everybody should be able to operate off of. You and I read the source material. We watch the source material. We do lots of research to be ready for this show. And I would encourage you guys to do too. You shouldn't 100% trust anybody in media because we can all get things that are wrong. And a lot of times when you get things wrong, it's when you haven't gone back and looked at the actual source material. This evidence is damning.

[Clay]

Yes.

[Buck]

I mean, this guy is guilty.

[Clay]

It's red handed. Red handed on video, all the text messages, all the, everything that you could ever think would be present for this kind of a case. And to anyone who says, well, and this is where this stuff always goes by. This is also why, you know, the JFK stuff, it's also tiring people like, oh, when they release the files, then we'll know. No, we're not going to know. Okay? Because if we knew what was based on what was in the files, we would already know and they wouldn't just be sitting in files. What you're going to hear from people, I think now the Internet, the Internet ecosystem will produce. Oh, but it's not just that Tyler Robinson did this. It's that he was directed by some other entity or some other individual. Okay, well, that's not even what Tyler Robinson's defense is alleging. And now you're gonna tell me. Oh, well, they can keep him quiet. Really? He's facing capital murder. They're going to keep him quiet? How exactly? If he was doing this at someone else's behest or as part of some conspiracy. And this is one of the problems, though, and one of the reasons we don't spend time here talking about Internet conspiracies on the show is that you breathe, at some level, you breathe life into them just by talking about how they're not true. And on the other side, you allow them to go un, you know, unrefuted if you don't discuss it at all. And so then it's, well, if you clearly had a better explanation, why wouldn't you talk about it? A lot of the stuff that has been said about Charlie Kirk's assassination is reckless and gross and I mean, I would say defamatory. And it's, it's wrong. And I just hope that everyone watching this just goes with exactly what is being presented and what the facts are and just be rational about this. You know, if someone's going to tell you, if anyone is going to tell you, it's all b. It's all a sham. All the investigators are in. Really? How is that? How do you get all the investigators in? Let me tell you. In the CIA, if something was really juicy as a secret, someone leaked it to the Washington Post at some like,

[Buck]

you can't keep a secret also. Yes, all if it's really a challenge, there's lots of people inside the government that have a different take, right? I mean, when there's disputed outcomes for things like you, everybody's writing their memos and they're like, this is actually the way it goes. Here's the way that I would just bring it home. You have to be, I believe, an evil person to believe that Erica Kirk with a 2 year old and a 1 year old doesn't want the person who killed her husband held accountable for it. You have to be an evil person, in my opinion, to believe that Charlie Kirk's own parents who are there in the courtroom don't want the person who killed Charlie Kirk held responsible. Let me give credit to him. Donald Trump Jr. Has been in the courtroom both of the last two days. Do you think that Donald Trump Jr. Doesn't want the person who killed Charlie Kirk held accountable?

[Clay]

Well, I mean, you can even go further than this because people allege that all the people that say it's Tyler Robinson, this is a terrible, horrific assassination by a lunatic who hated Charlie for what he stood for and hated Charlie for his beliefs. By the way, there have been plenty of high profile assassinations in the past where that was exactly the motivation.

[Buck]

This is. I had a Trans, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever the hell it is. Right? That is undisputably true.

[Clay]

And, and so now you're going to tell me that all of these, these people that are, that's your point. That are very prominently at the court and you know, are Jack Posobic, who's a, who's a friend of mine, he's there as well. I mean, there are all these people that are there. They're all in on it. And someone's going to say that with a straight face, or they wouldn't. I even take it a level down from that because that's truly, that's truly crazy town. And there are people, you go online, there's people who are firmly in crazy town, which is sad. And, and you know, when you're talking about saying that people would have somebody that was very dear to them killed, I mean, that's about as. I mean, you could, you could wrongfully accuse someone of being like a child molester, and I think that may be the most defamatory. But accusing someone of having someone that they care about deeply murdered is right up there with the worst possible thing you could say about a person. And you should not ever say these things unless you are damn sure that there is a very solid basis for it. It should not be speculation. It should not be, and it's wrong. And I understand that there are a lot of people that are angry about being lied to by the government. They're angry about what institutions in this country have done in recent years, including over Covid. But we have to keep some moral compass on my friends. We have to keep some sense of reason, rationality and facts front and center, or else what are you doing here?

[Buck]

I agree. I echo all that. And I would just come back to Erica Kirk, to me, has been treated awfully by the general public. Most of the people that have treated her on Internet public, I should say, because I think in real life it's very different. But most of the people who have treated Erica Kirk the worst are on the right.

[Clay]

Yes, I mean, I, I mean, if,

[Buck]

if the left has treated Erica Kirk better in general than the right has. And that to me is a huge indictment of the culture on the Internet of the right that has been allowed to develop.

[Clay]

There's been more hate about Charlie on the left overall, to be sure, after his assassination, but crazier things are said about the assassination on the right.

[Buck]

Yes, that's a good, that's a good. Unacceptable.

[Clay]

Yeah, unacceptable. And, you know, look, I also say this, people, if you have an audience, the audience is actually the accountability measure. The audience actually has to demand more from a person. You know, people say, why don't you guys get more involved in all this stuff? We're not going to be able to convince anyone to stop saying crazy things if they think saying crazy things gets them what they want. It's up to the people that believe. You know, it's essentially up to the, in this context, the cult followers, if you will. They got to leave the cult or they got to demand more from the leader, at least. All right, in America's history. There's America's history, rather, and there's our own family history. We celebrated a milestone moment over the weekend, our nation's 250th birthday. But the number of moments for our families to celebrate and relive are far greater. Legacy Box knows that they digitally transfer old media like videotapes, film reels, slides and more so you can watch them again. That's why our nation's 250th birthday is such a big deal to Legacy Box. It's a reminder of our own milestone moments. When you send your old media to Legacy Box and treat it like the rare items they are, carefully transferring them by hand, you'll get everything back, along with brand new files on the cloud, ready to watch and share from anywhere. More than 2 million families have trusted Legacy Box. Their work is done in Tennessee, where Legacy Box has an impressive set of facilities full of dedicated people and the best technology to make digitizing your family history possible. Remember, your family story is part of the American story. Don't let those memories fade away. Go to Legacy Box's sale today legacybox.com buck that's legacy box.com buck preset your

[Buck]

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[Buck]

Welcome back in Clay and Buck, we're following following the World cup in real time. Argentina playing against Egypt down I believe that game's taking place just down the road from you in Miami at the Hard Rock Stadium. Buck, Argentina is losing would be a huge upset. Egypt just had a goal taken away. We have. Let's see Trucker Dan quickly here. You wanted to weigh in from Iowa. Fire away.

[Caller]

Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. And it's Trucker Don. Greg got it right again. You guys misread. But anyway, the reason I called is the World cup. The proof that we needed to see that if President Trump ever cured cancer, the liberals would root for cancer. Is this because the president weighed in and got our striker back for the World cup and liberals were insane and all voting for Belgium to beat the US in this game. In fact, a Fox Sports broadcaster last night was cheering on Belgium and you know, just, it was ridiculous.

[Buck]

I don't know about that. Thank you for the call. We'll talk more, take more calls. But I know the Fox Sports guys pretty well. Some of them are foreign, but the US Guys were definitely pro us prudent business owners do responsible things like buying business insurance. This is what super sure is all about. Do you have enough insurance? Do you have the right insurance? Do you even if you have 25 or more employees and you want to save money on insurance and make sure that you are covered, super sure will hook you up. One agent covering all of your needs, saving you a bundle. It costs nothing to find out. Supersure.com clay that's super sure.com clay no cost. Try it out today. Paid for by Super Sure Insurance Agency, llc, a licensed insurance agency agency.

[Clay]

Welcome back here to play and buck. Some of you want to talk about the Charlie Kirk trial and the situation around that. So let's do it. Let's have this. Let's have a conversation here, Charles in Columbus, Georgia. What's going on, Charles?

[Caller]

Yeah, with the Charlie Kirk conspiracy nonsense, I'm seeing a morph of two kind of dangerous phenomena here. One, you've got the actual nonsensical conspiracies, 911 truthers Sandy Hook was the government put on. Obama was born in Kenya. So you got those knuckleheads. And then you get real conspiracy. Fauci says you got to wear two masks and get a shot. That doesn't work. Joe Biden doesn't actually have dementia, and Hunter Biden's laptop is Russia disinformation. So you morph all that together, and then you've got the Internet that can rapidly share through social media, lies, AI generated pictures. We now have a significant portion of the population can't do critical thinking and doesn't know up and down anymore.

[Buck]

I agree with all of that.

[Clay]

Yeah.

[Buck]

I think all that you just said is 100% true. And look, because some things are. You're lied to doesn't mean you're lied to about everything. I think that's a tough thing for a lot of people. That's why I said Covid has, I think, fueled much of conspiratorial culture because we were lied to about so much. I think you also then add in the Hunter Biden laptop, all of those things. I get it. And Buck and I have been for the last five years pretty public on this show when we think, hey, there's strong evidence. We should look at this. I'm telling you guys, I have done and been involved in criminal defense work before. All of the evidence I am seeing, Tyler Robinson. There is way more evidence that he committed this murder than there is the average person being convicted of murder in the United States. Tons of video evidence, tons of ballistics evidence. This is, I think, clearly beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty. I hope that this trial is widely covered and you guys go watch and see all of the evidence coming out. But again, sometimes you just have to be rational, I think, and take a step back and say, okay, do you think that Donald Trump Jr. Is lying to you? Do you think that Erica Kirk is lying to you? Do you think that Charlie Kirk's parents are lying to you?

[Clay]

Can I also ask why?

[Buck]

Innocent man guilty. Yes, that's.

[Clay]

I mean, no. But, you know, your question is important. What reason would those people have to go along with this? How could you make someone go along with this? What would the pressure point be that you could exercise on so many people simultaneously? None of whom would say, I'm being coerced, I'm under duress. They would. All these conspiracies, my friends, they all fall apart the moment that you start to ask anybody, putting them forward. How could you even do all of this? How could you, you know, have this situation Happening. And like I said, for people who want to bring up the other conspiracy, when. When Fauci said masks don't work in an email, and then three months later, he was saying, actually, they're super important. We need to wear masks, A lot of us were saying, he's lying to you, and we're presenting you with why he's lying to you. That's. That's not one person saying it.

[Buck]

To your point, Buck, Fauci had a direct incentive to lie. He helped to fund gain of function research in China. And if it were to come out and he were to be held accountable for that, he would potentially face dire consequences. He has not because he helped to cover his tracks. I think your point you're asking is really important. So if you want to argue Erica Kirk is not being honest, and Charlie Kirk's own parents are not being honest, first of all, I would say to you, think about your own life. What would it take if a loved one of yours, if your son or daughter were murdered? What would it take for you to argue that someone who had. That was innocent had actually committed that crime? Most of you would say, there's nothing that could occur that would make me do that. If it were your spouse who was murdered in cold blood, what would you need to have occur for you to lie about who did it? So, just starting there and then the next one is that people say, oh, well, they're afraid. They're trying to protect their own families. They're afraid they'll be killed next. Okay, why would Donald Trump Jr. Do it? His dad's the President of the United States right now. He is the son of the most powerful person in the world. Why would Donald Trump Jr. Lie about who killed Charlie Kirk? I give him credit for being there. I think this is important to punch back against the conspiracist. But again, to your point, Buck, I think it's a really important one. Most conspiracies, the conspirators benefit. There are consequences if they are held accountable for their actions. Fauci clearly lied because he had engaged in behavior that would have held him accountable for Covid escaping a Chinese lab.

[Clay]

Yeah. Show me the incentive and I'll show you the result. Or I'll show you what's real. Right. Show me who benefits. Cui bono, I believe, is the old Latin, Right. Who benefits from this?

[Buck]

Yes.

[Clay]

And the stories you hear about it make simply just no sense at all. And so I just ask everyone to please be as discerning as you can about these things and watch the trial, watch the facts, the jury is going to come to a verdict. And I mean, but I do think that there are a lot of people, unfortunately, who believe that even if this guy were to say on the stand, you know what, I did it, I'm guilty, they would still say, well, he was forced to say it.

[Buck]

Yeah.

[Clay]

This is one of the ways that when I am asked, how do you argue with a leftist, how do you debate a leftist who's really dug in on an issue, usually like a policy issue, something like that. And one of the things that I like to try as a tactic is, okay, well, what, what would be true if what were true? Would it make you change your mind? And what you'll find with a lot of them is that there's nothing that could be true that would make them change their mind. You know, if we're like a climate change extremist, for example, you know, okay, what if all of these scientists that you always just refer to as like this collective. What if the climate scientists came out and said, you know, our data is actually as, actually off on this one. It's not as bad as, no, they'll say, well, that, that can't be true, or that won't be true, or there's no way say, well, so you're not actually basing it on data. You're basing it on what your emotional reaction is to what you insist the data will be.

[Buck]

And yeah, no, I love all this. I think it's really building on what you're saying. What percentage of people in America are willing to change their mind on a subject. This is where you really get. Because I would change your mind.

[Clay]

Well, what percentage will admit that they were wrong? What percent of people? I think a huge thing with Democrats, to bring it into our political framework here is a lot of people don't want to accept that they have been bamboozled, essentially, that they have accepted things or they have been a part of things that are wrong, that are destructive and that are. That undermine the society all around us, that make life, life worse for everyone. Because they really believed this stuff about how they're going to make life better for everybody. You know, they really believed that if we just didn't lock anybody up, there'd be less crime, for example.

[Buck]

All of these things are true. Buck. I was, you know, I traveled this past week quite a lot. The number of people wearing masks. Five years, six years. What are we sitting at? Since COVID six years, those people are never going to admit that masks had no impact. Because if they did. They would have to say to themselves, I gave away five or six years of my life for nothing. And I would submit to you, and this is something that I try to instill in my kids and look at the facts, look at the evidence and be willing to admit you're wrong, be willing to change your opinion. I would submit to you that the most successful people in the country are willing to change their minds. Because if you stay committed to something that the data doesn't reflect is, is accurate, eventually you're going to go off into crazy town. And I think a lot of these people, candidly who think that Charlie Kirk is, was killed by someone other than this guy, I think they've gone into crazy town.

[Clay]

Andy in Massachusetts. You want to talk to us? You want to talk to us about this? Andy, what's up?

[Caller]

I guess it's Andy from crazy town. I just, I don't believe the official story at all.

[Buck]

Baseball.

[Clay]

Let's, let's go through this piece by piece.

[Caller]

What.

[Clay]

What do you not believe?

[Caller]

I thought it was very suspicious that immediately they destroyed the crime scene. They dug it up and I mean they were making. They were ripping out the soil underneath where he was shot. Like what was it within like 24 to 48 hours. I don't believe that a, a 36 at 200 yards was stopped by a human spinal cord. I don't care how muscular you say his neck was. I mean, he was a fake guy, but even Brock Lesnar, you could make a model of his neck and shoot it. 100.

[Buck]

Okay, so you think someone other than who killed, who killed Charlie, you don't believe the video. You don't believe the evidence. Like you don't believe this guy walking around that they. Video of limping up the stairs. Fingerprints all over the gun things too.

[Caller]

Is I, I. Immediately after the shot was fired, they have video of him sprinting across the roof. Yeah.

[Buck]

They are able to see from a. So, okay, who do. Who in your mind, who killed Charlie Kirk?

[Caller]

I don't want to get into alternative theories. I'm just, I'm telling you, I don't think this is an open and closed case here.

[Buck]

Okay. Why do you think like. Let's just say Erica Kirk is his widow. His parents are in the courtroom. You think that they either are in on it or they are being lied to about who actually killed Charlie Kirk.

[Caller]

I can't speak to that. I don't know them at all. Never met them, you know. Right.

[Buck]

But I don't. Are you married?

[Caller]

Kinda.

[Buck]

That's a Heck of an answer. If your spouse were killed, do you have kids?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Buck]

Okay, let's go to kids then. Because that. If one of your kids was killed, like Charlie Kirk's parents are there, what would it take for you to show up in court, just put this into your own life, and be going to this trial and be wanting the person to be held accountable? What would it take for you to. I mean, is there anything on earth that could make you not pursue your child's killer to the utmost of your ability?

[Caller]

No, but, I mean, that's. That's not what I'm getting at here. I mean, that's like if somebody told me they shot my son in his next stop, the 36, I would say, no, there's something else going on here.

[Clay]

Okay, when you say a couple. A couple of things here, I do a lot of shooting. When you say stopped a 30 out sex we were talking about, you're saying the bullet lodged in his. In his neck and didn't fully exit with the wound? Is that. That what you mean? It didn't stop it like a bulletproof vest. Obviously, Charlie's dead. You're saying that it lodged in his neck.

[Caller]

The other thing, too, is that when I. I saw it. I saw it. I actually heard it from you guys. And I went on, you know, the phone immediately, and I started to look. I saw the gruesome videos, and I understand, you know, shoots. That was a very strange gunshot wound. There was no mist. You know what I mean? It was just like.

[Clay]

Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Let me ask you. Let me ask you respectfully. Respectfully, to the degree that I can be. What do you know about gunshot wounds? And what do you know about ballistics? And now, comma, hold on. The people that are investigating this for the state of Utah and also the FBI and the forensics labor, do you think they know more than you about this? ATF is actually doing it. And then also, if they know more than you and you don't know anything.

[Caller]

Yes. What. What?

[Clay]

You say you don't trust the atf. You think they're framing somebody for Charlie's murder. I mean, really?

[Caller]

Again, I'm not getting.

[Buck]

Why would they do that?

[Clay]

So you just don't want to believe that it was. That this is the guy. For some reason, you don't want to believe this is the guy? All right. I mean, I. I appreciate you calling. Hey. And you don't think it's the guy, or you do think it's the guy?

[Caller]

I. I don't think it was him. I. I don't think. I don't think he could have broke down the rifle that fast and ran across.

[Buck]

Okay, okay, so let me just ask.

[Clay]

Convinced you? Hold on, hold on. Who convinced you? Who can. Okay, hold on. Who convinced you that it's not him?

[Caller]

The evidence that they're trying to shove down our throat.

[Clay]

There was no. There wasn't a person. Who convinced you? You're like, there wasn't someone's analysis of this. You're just saying you came to this on your own.

[Caller]

As soon as they said he was shot at from 200 yards with a 30 OD6 and it didn't go through his neck, I started looking at it. And, yeah, I've heard a hundred different theories on it. And I mean, I, I can't believe the one that this kid ran up there, shot him within like a split second, had the barrel. You know, you need a barrel wrench to take apart that mouser.

[Buck]

Okay, so who do you think. Okay, so let me just step back, because you've got, You've got your theory. Who killed Charlie Kirk? In your mind, like, what entity? In order for this to occur, what you are saying, right, there would have to be a vast conspiracy that would incorporate not only one agency, right? FBI, the atf, the local police state, Utah, hundreds of people investigating this case, probably the most investigated case, murder, in the history of President Trump, who was

[Clay]

a personal friend of Charlie's, he apparently is going to just go along with all this.

[Buck]

Kash Patel, all of those hundreds of people had to decide that they were going to pick this random guy and say he did it to protect who.

[Caller]

Again, I'm not getting into alternative theory.

[Clay]

All right, I appreciate it. Thank you for calling in. There, there, there, there. We're. I'm. I hope this is a useful exercise for some people to hear. All right, this is National Grilling Month.

[Caller]

Yay.

[Clay]

Let's talk about grilling for a minute here. Whether you're grilling burgers or hosting a backyard barbecue, good ranchers will have you covered. Good ranchers partners with local farms and ranches to deliver 100% American meat straight to your door. It's pasture raised, has no antibiotics and no added hormones. It's the kind of quality you can feel good about serving to the people around your table. Everything is delivered in a specially created shipping box. I can't begin to tell you how excited I get when my good ranchers box shows up. Every month, like Christmas morning, good ranchers meat, chicken and pork, fill our freezer and fridge this month they're celebrating all 50 states. With $50 off your first order, just visit goodranchers.com use My Name Buck as your promo code at checkout. You get $50 off anything on their site. Remember, that's code BUCK for $50 off. You can also get free meat with every order on top of the 50 off. If you decide to start a plan today because this summer's one to savor good ranchers.com code buck for $50 off.

[Buck]

Keeping it real, Keeping it right Clay and Buck, find them on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay]

Consumer Reports just released a new survey of all the wireless brands in America. Only one company received five out of five stars in every category. And it shouldn't be a surprise that the Honor goes to PureTalk coverage. 5 stars Support 5 stars Value 5 stars Data 5 stars there's literally no reason to still be paying inflated prices to big wireless when you can get superior service like I do from PureTalk. Need one more reason. Right now, PureTalk is matching donations dollar for dollar until they hit $250,000. For America's warrior Partnership, who's on the front lines of supporting our veterans.

[Buck]

Go to PureTalk.com Klay to switch to the only wireless company awarded five stars in every category by Consumer Reports. PureTalk. No service contract, no cancellation fees. Just phenomenal US customer service on the 5G network that powers America. Again, that's PureTalk.com Clay to make the switch to PureTalk, a wireless company that actually lives up to your expectations.

[Joel Osteen Daily Podcast Announcer]

The Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.

[Joel Osteen]

God's plans for you are for good.

[Joel Osteen Daily Podcast Announcer]

Be inspired.

[Joel Osteen]

Get ready. God is about to exceed your expectations.

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Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.

[Joel Osteen]

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[Buck]

right when you need it.

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[Buck]

Welcome back. In closing up the hour here, we'll continue to take your calls. And again, we're talking about the Tyler Robinson trial evidence that is coming out day two of that hearing. We've also got the Graham Platner drama. US men have collapsed and Argentina no longer necessary to cry for Argentina. Buck, while we were doing that last segment, they have tied Egypt 22 in one of the continued scintillating games in the World Cup Messi with a goal the greatest of all soccer players. Sorry Ronaldo fans. And right now, Argentina is trying to win it in regulation. So we'll see what happens there. Final hour coming up, you can take more of your calls if you are a conspiracy theorist and believe that, in fact, Tyler Robinson did not commit this assassination of Charlie Kirk. But I do not think there is very much evidence that is very good for him. And I'm saying that as someone who has sometimes represented people in the world of criminal defense who have been charged with very serious crimes, and I suspect that that jury is going to convict him. But I would encourage you to go look at all the evidence yourself. Also, when we come back, I'll dive into a little bit more on the Grand Platner drama as Bernie Sanders has broken his silence. And maybe we will try and come up with some more bright, shiny, positive things to say about the US Law.

[Joel Osteen Daily Podcast Announcer]

The Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.

[Joel Osteen]

God's plans for you are for good.

[Joel Osteen Daily Podcast Announcer]

Be inspired.

[Joel Osteen]

Get ready. God is about to exceed your expectations.

[Joel Osteen Daily Podcast Announcer]

Joy Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.

[Joel Osteen]

You are coming out of that dry place into more than enough daily encouragement

[Buck]

right when you need it.

[Joel Osteen]

There are opportunities in your future bigger than you can imagine.

[Joel Osteen Daily Podcast Announcer]

Listen to the Joel Osteen Daily podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.