Hour 2 - Welfare and Warfare

Summary

---

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 2 - Welfare and Warfare
Date: October 8, 2025
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

---

Overview

In this episode, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the major headlines shaping politics and policy, weaving through topics such as gubernatorial drama in California, media interactions, and the ongoing government shutdown. The show features a deep dive into Democratic candidate Katie Porter's contentious interview with a CBS journalist, explores allegations about her character and leadership, and hosts a substantive interview with Senator Rand Paul on the fight over welfare and government spending, Obamacare subsidies, and the mechanics of the shutdown. Listeners contribute their diverse viewpoints in thought-provoking call-ins.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Atmosphere in Washington D.C. Amid Government Shutdown

• Buck opens with levity: D.C. is noticeably emptier and more pleasant with most federal employees off-duty.
  • "This government shutdown's pretty nice. Pretty nice." [00:28] (Buck Sexton)

---

2. California Gubernatorial Race: Katie Porter’s Interview Controversy

a. The Viral CBS Interview Clip

• Buck introduces a viral interview: Katie Porter (Democratic candidate for governor) clashed with CBS journalist Julie Watts.
• The exchange grows tense as Porter resists direct answers about her need for Trump-voter support in a general election and bristles at multiple follow-up questions.

Notable Quotes:

• "This is CBS... home team stuff for Porter. But if you ask her real questions, apparently she doesn't like it." [02:48] (Buck Sexton)
• "I feel like this is unnecessarily argumentative. What is question?" [04:07] (Katie Porter)
• "I don't want to keep doing this. I'm going to call it. Thank you." [05:17] (Katie Porter)
• "She can't handle that. What exactly... is the reporter maybe... are things getting a little lost in translation?" [05:21] (Buck Sexton)

b. Buck’s Analysis and Reaction

• Buck frames Porter’s reaction as ogreish, unprofessional, and revealing of her character.
• He brings up past allegations against Porter (via NY Post and Politico):
  • Claims of abusive behavior toward ex-husband and staff.
  • High staff turnover and reports of a toxic work environment.
• Buck generalizes that "nasty people in politics are always Democrats," referencing similar stories about Amy Klobuchar.

Notable Quotes:

• "Katie Porter comes across as a really nasty and unlikable person and unprofessional." [02:57] (Buck Sexton)
• "I use that term, people like that one online. Ogrish, as in befitting of an ogre." [05:35] (Buck Sexton)
• "Between the scalding hot potatoes thrown at her ex, the staffers who say that she is a brutish and nasty woman, and now this berating of a reporter for nothing... we can't do the benefit of the doubt thing anymore." [12:56] (Buck Sexton)

c. Listener Phone Calls on Porter Interview

• Caller Mike (Waco, TX): Asserts Porter’s hostility arose directly from being pressed for logical answers.
• Caller Gerard (Louisiana): Suggests Porter must have known the questions in advance; Buck theorizes it’s more about expectation of friendly coverage than prior knowledge.

Notable Quotes:

• "The outrage comes from, what are you doing? You're not supposed to do this." [18:49] (Buck Sexton)

---

3. Senator Rand Paul Interview: The Shutdown, Welfare, and Obamacare Subsidies

Interview begins: [21:13]

a. Root Cause of the Shutdown

• Sen. Paul: All Democrats previously voted for these spending levels; the current conflict is over renewing temporary Obamacare subsidies, originally set to expire by Democrat design.
• "This is all on the Democrats, and eventually they will fold and vote to reopen the government." [21:39] (Rand Paul)

b. Debate Surrounding Obamacare Subsidies

• Subsidies were described as pandemic relief but now benefit relatively wealthy individuals, not the poor.
• Funding the subsidies requires borrowing (often from China) or money printing, worsening the $2 trillion annual deficit.

Notable Quotes:

• "When you subsidize something, you're increasing the demand for it. You actually are in all likelihood increasing the price of things." [22:52] (Rand Paul)

c. Welfare for Illegals and Democrat vs Republican Policies

• Paul explains laws existing against welfare for illegal immigrants, but enforcement is weak and Democrat-led states are more permissive.
• Democrats are now moving to repeal restrictions preventing illegals from accessing welfare and voting.

Notable Quotes:

• "We do know that illegal people in the country are voting. We also know they're receiving healthcare as well." [24:33] (Rand Paul)

d. Shutdown Politics – Who Gets the Blame?

• Buck and Paul discuss the old narrative that Republicans suffer politically during shutdowns.
• Paul: Republicans aren’t emphasizing enough that Democrats previously approved these spending levels.

e. The Need for Real Spending Cuts

• Paul: Both parties are addicted to deficit spending; even Republicans resist meaningful cuts.
• His “penny plan” would balance the budget in five years by small annual cuts, but only about 60% of GOP Senators support it.

Notable Quotes:

• "The one thing that is bipartisan up here is spending money we don’t have." [27:09] (Rand Paul)
• "There are no Democrats that will vote to cut one penny... On the Republican side, there's a lot of lip service." [29:34] (Rand Paul)

f. Entitlements and the Political Will for Change

• Paul: No substantial reform is possible as long as entitlements like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are “off the table.”
• He stresses the disconnect between what GOP voters want (cuts and reform) and the actual votes in Congress.

g. How Long Will the Shutdown Last?

• Paul predicts Democrats will hold out through a “left-wing socialist rally” in D.C., then relent; some Republicans will likely side with Democrats to reinstate Obamacare subsidies.

h. Market Reforms for Health Insurance

• Paul proposes allowing large membership organizations (e.g., Costco) to collectively bargain for insurance for their members – a solution he says is currently stymied by federal law.

Notable Quotes:

• "If Costco were to buy your insurance for you, my guess is Costco can get a better price than you can individually." [33:06] (Rand Paul)
• "A way of injecting the market that actually would bring down health care costs." [34:07] (Rand Paul)

---

4. Listener Reactions and Calls

• Several audience members weigh in with skepticism about group insurance, arguing that modern technology could allow more individualized policies without group-based risk pooling.
• Buck responds, emphasizing the complexity of insurance economics and the necessity of healthy people subsidizing the sick to make insurance work.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:28 | Buck Sexton | "This government shutdown's pretty nice. Pretty nice." | | 02:57 | Buck Sexton | "Katie Porter comes across as a really nasty and unlikable person and unprofessional." | | 04:07 | Katie Porter | "I feel like this is unnecessarily argumentative. What is question?" | | 05:35 | Buck Sexton | "I use that term, people like that one online. Ogrish, as in befitting of an ogre." | | 12:56 | Buck Sexton | "Between the scalding hot potatoes thrown at her ex, the staffers who say that she is a brutish and nasty woman, and now this berating of a reporter for nothing... we can't do the benefit of the doubt thing anymore." | | 21:39 | Rand Paul | "This is all on the Democrats, and eventually they will fold and vote to reopen the government." | | 22:52 | Rand Paul | "When you subsidize something, you're increasing the demand for it. You actually are in all likelihood increasing the price of things." | | 27:09 | Rand Paul | "The one thing that is bipartisan up here is spending money we don’t have." | | 29:34 | Rand Paul | "There are no Democrats that will vote to cut one penny... On the Republican side, there's a lot of lip service." | | 33:06 | Rand Paul | "If Costco were to buy your insurance for you, my guess is Costco can get a better price than you can individually." |

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-03:00: Opening banter about the government shutdown in D.C.
• 03:06-07:29: Katie Porter’s tense CBS interview with analysis and commentary
• 12:00-15:00: Buck’s deep dive into Porter's character and staff allegations
• 17:07-18:49: Listener calls react to the Porter interview
• 21:13-34:07: In-depth interview with Senator Rand Paul (shutdown, welfare, Obamacare, debt)
• 39:29-40:32: Audience call on group insurance and Buck's closing thoughts

---

Tone and Style

• Witty, assertive, and opinionated – Buck and Clay mix sharp critique with conversational humor and straight talk, never hiding their personal viewpoints (especially Buck in his monologues).
• The interview with Rand Paul is serious and policy-focused, grounded in fiscal conservatism.
• Listener contributions reflect a range from critical analysis to personal frustrations, all forming a lively, talk-radio atmosphere.

---

Summary Takeaways

• D.C. is calm during the shutdown—and Buck enjoys it—but the calm belies deeper partisan gridlock over spending.
• Katie Porter’s campaign takes a PR hit: She’s depicted as hostile and evasive with the press, with commentary focusing on alleged patterns of abusive behavior.
• Welfare and warfare spending are at the heart of the shutdown fight: Senator Paul pinpoints unrestrained debt and entitlement spending as bipartisan failings.
• Obamacare subsidies are a sticking point: Democrats push for renewal, but Paul argues they only increase insurance costs and debt.
• Policy reform is stymied by entrenched opposition: Both parties resist real spending cuts; reforms like group health insurance pooling could help, but are blocked by legacy regulations.
• The show is characteristically partisan but information-rich, offering both critique and policy analysis alongside radio-friendly banter and listener engagement.

---

Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

This is an iHeart podcast. Second hour of play and buck kicks off right now. We're gonna have Senator Rand Paul joining us at the bottom about the government shutdown, which I have to say, for my own reasons here in D.C. i am loving every minute of. It's amazing. I feel like I could hop on an electric scooter and just do a little tour of the town and not have to stop anywhere because there's no one on the streets. It's fabulous.

[Clay Travis]

You know, I just put a little.

[Buck Sexton]

Scarf on, you know, in case it gets chilly on the scooter, and I go Capitol building, Georgetown. Stop by the White House. High five, Steve Miller. See how everybody's doing. That's the kind of day it is over here. It's wonderful. Wonderful. They don't have all the. All the bureaucrats, you know, jostling together and, you know, making the line at Starbucks 100 people long. None of that stuff. This government shutdown's pretty nice. Pretty nice. So let's dive into politics in California for a minute, shall we? Because a lot of you have seen this. It's gone viral. As you know. We have Steve Hilton on to talk about his run for governor in that state. Gavin Newsom. Hey, everybody, how you doing? He's termed out. He is going to run for president, quite obviously, and he has to give up his governor's mansion to whoever the next person to win that contest is going to be. And it's looking right now, at least on the Democrat side of things, it's looking like Katie Porter is the likeliest to win. Now, every state has different rules about how this stuff goes. California, as I understand it, and some of you live there, so you're going to know this better than I do, has like a top two situation. So you have all these people that are going to be running, and then the top two vote getters are going to be on the. In the general election, the ballot in November of 2026. I think that's right. If it's wrong, my team will tell me in a moment and I'll correct it. But I think that's basically how it goes. But Katie Porter is. Is getting a lot of attention she probably did not want right now. In fact, the Newsweek headline here is Katie Porter's chances of winning California Governor Election suffer Blow. And let's get into why that is. She sat down with a journalist. She sat down with a journalist and had the exchange team. Can I do this? Actually, Producer Mike let's, let's do a little. A little play Pause here. Right. So I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna say. All right, let's pause for a second here because this is a long one. It's a couple minutes long, so I want to get in and out of this sound bite, but I want you to hear the whole thing because, wow, Katie Porter comes across as a really nasty and unlikable person and unprofessional. So let's start this off. This is a CBS interview with Julie Watts of CBS News, California. Come on. It's cbs. And this is Communist Broadcasting Services. Like this. This is not. This is home team stuff for Porter. But if you ask her real questions, she apparently doesn't like it. This is how it goes. Play it.

[Julie Watts]

What do you say to the 40% of California voters who you'll need in order to win, who voted for Trump?

[Katie Porter]

How would I need them in order to win, ma'?

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Am?

[Julie Watts]

Well, unless you think you're going to get 60% of the vote. You think you'll get 60% all. Everybody who did not vote for Trump will vote for you. That's what you're.

[Katie Porter]

In a general election. Yes. If it is me versus a Republican, I think that I will win. The people who did not vote for Trump.

[Julie Watts]

What if it's you versus another Democrat?

[Katie Porter]

I don't intend that to be the case.

[Julie Watts]

So how do you not intend that to be the case? Do you. Are you going to ask them not to run?

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

No, no.

[Katie Porter]

I'm saying I'm going to build the support. I have the support already in terms of name recognition. And so I'm going to do the very best I can to make sure that we get through this primary in a really strong position. But let me be clear with you. I represented Orange County. I represented a purple area. I have stood on my own two feet and won Republican votes before. That's not something every candidate in this race can say. If you're from a deep blue area, if you're from LA or you're from Oakland, you haven't. You don't have an experience.

[Julie Watts]

You just said you don't need those Trump voters, but you asked me if.

[Katie Porter]

I needed them to win.

[Julie Watts]

So you don't need them.

[Katie Porter]

I feel like this is unnecessarily argumentative. What is question?

[Julie Watts]

The question is.

[Buck Sexton]

Let's pause there for a second. Let's pause there for a second because it's about to get really good. Everybody, I want to keep you on the edge of your seats. Argumentative. Argumentative. I got to tell you, as a conservative dealing with the media, like, that's like a, like a shiatsu massage. That's not argumentative. Like, are you kidding me? That's. She can't handle that. That's getting her all, oh, oh, you're just hearing the beginning of Hurricane Porter unleashed here. Things are, things are going to get worse. Keep playing.

[Julie Watts]

It is the same thing I asked everybody that this is being called the empowering voters to stop Trump's power grab. Every other candidate has answered this question. This is not argument.

[Katie Porter]

I support it.

[Julie Watts]

So. And the question is, what do you say to the 40% of voters who voted for Trump?

[Katie Porter]

Oh, I'm happy to say that it's the, do you need them to win Part that I don't understand. I'm happy to answer. Answer the question as you have it written and I'll answer it.

[Julie Watts]

And we've also asked the other candidates, do you think you need any of those 40% of California voters to win? And you're saying no, you don't.

[Katie Porter]

No, I'm saying I'm going to try to win every vote I can. And what I'm saying to you is.

[Julie Watts]

That, well, to those voters. Okay, so, so you.

[Katie Porter]

I don't want to keep doing this. I'm going to call it. Thank you.

[Buck Sexton]

Whoa, whoa, hey, hit the pause button. Hit the pause button. She can't handle that. What exactly is. Look, is there, is the reporter maybe. Are things getting a little lost in translation here about the numbers? Look, she's, she's a CBS journalist. She's trying to, you know, she could be doing like sideline reporting for the NFL or something. She happens to be here with this politician. Who cares? Here she is and she's trying to just, she's just trying to do like a decent job. This is not a gotcha. I know. Gotcha. Every time I used to go on cnn, it was like an ambush and I had to fight through it. I know what got you is like, this is not gotcha. This is trying to just clarify a point. But also you can tell Katie Porter has decided, Congresswoman Porter has decided to really, you know, sink her teeth into this. And I think just comes across as ogrish, if you will. I use that term, people like that one online. Ogrish, as in befitting of an ogre. It's not nice. Not nice, the way she's acting here. Not nice. Keep playing it.

[Julie Watts]

You're not going to do the interview with us?

[Katie Porter]

Nope. Not like this, I'm not. Not with seven follow ups to every single question you ask.

[Julie Watts]

Every other candidate has Answered, I don't care.

[Katie Porter]

I, I want to have a pleasant, positive conversation which you ask me about every issue on this list. And if every question you're going to make up a follow up question, then we're never going to get there and we're just going to circle around. I am an investigative had to do this before ever.

[Julie Watts]

You've never had to have conversation with. Okay, but every other candidate has done this.

[Katie Porter]

I. What part of I'm me, I'm running for governor because I'm a leader. So I am going to make.

[Julie Watts]

So you're not going to answer questions from reporters. Okay, why don't we go through. I will continue to ask follow up questions because that's my job as a journalist. But I will go through and ask these. And if you don't want to answer, you don't want to answer. So nearly every legislative.

[Katie Porter]

I don't want to have an unhappy experience with you and I don't want this all on camera.

[Julie Watts]

I don't want to have an unhappy experience with you either. I would love to continue to ask these questions so that we can show our viewers what every candidate feels about every one of these issues that they care about.

[Buck Sexton]

Isn't that amazing? Also notice the manipulation there. I'm not a psychiatrist, so I'm not going to say that has hints of maybe borderline personality disorder or causing a problem and then saying right away that you're not the one who wants to cause the problem that you just caused. You know, I, I'm not going to diagnose this, but I can tell you this. There are people who could. Strikes me as not a good moment for Katie Porter. But let's if you want. Maybe you're saying, you know, maybe she had a bad day, uh, she wants to be the governor of the fifth largest economy in the world. You know, maybe we should just say look to the record and get a sense as to what is the real Katie Porter like. You know, any, anyone can have a bad day, right? Anyone can have a bad day. Maybe you want. I mean I don't particularly want to take that position on this, but I want to bring you this story from 2023. Representative Katie Porter scalded ex husband scalp with boiling potatoes. Documents I shall read. The former husband of Representative Katie Porter said the California Democrat frequently abused him verbally. This is from the New York Post. And threw toys, books and other objects at him during their marriage. Even pouring scalding hot mashed potatoes on his head during a fight. According to divorce records. Matthew Hoffman, who Filed for divorce from Porter in 2013, said in a request for a restraining order dated April 30 of that year that he was routinely called a bleeping idiot and a bleak incompetent by his rage prone spouse, who also shattered a glass coffee pot on their kitchen counter in March 2012 when she felt their house wasn't clean enough. She's delightful. Delightful. She would not have let me have a cell phone because she said, quote, you're too bleeping dumb to operate it. Wow. When she gets angry, I'm quoting here, when she gets angry, she will claw and scratch her arms and then say to me, look what you made me do. Again, I am not a psychiatrist. But Google borderline personality disorder. Google some of what's going on here, the creation of the problem, and then the pretense, once you've created it, that you don't want drama. I'm not the, I'm not the one starting the fire here. I don't want anyone starting fires when you've thrown the gasoline all over the fire you started. Now, I know, I know what the Democrats would say here. They'd say, oh, but he retracted that and she ended up, oh, you mean that his far more powerful spouse and the very serious money interests aligned behind her were able to get him to retract something that he had already put it in a divorce proceeding because they made him an offer probably he couldn't refuse? You know, yeah, okay. But that did happen. So he, he retracted those things, but he said all those things in court documents and they were reported on, which I think is interesting. Again, I'm just looking at the totality of evidence. Are we going to say that Katie Porter had a bad day or were we getting a window into this member of Congress who wants to be the governor of California and from there probably would see herself as running for president. So I think it's a pretty fair game to get into all this. But you may say, buck, divorce proceedings can get ugly. I mean, who among us hasn't thrown boiling hot potatoes at somebody in a fit of rage at some point? Well, all of you, I'm sure. But you know, we're trying to be generous here, right? I'm, I'm trying to take the maximum benefit point of view for the Ogrish Katie Porter, the bullying Katie Porter here. And so that I would then just say, well, clearly she would have a lot of people who would come forward who have worked with her to speak to what an impeccable character she has, what a kind and Encouraging boss and mentor she is. And for that, I bring you Politico Katie Porter and the bad boss problem. Oh, hold on a second. This isn't that at all. This is pretty bad. Quote, some former staff, former staffers have said that she is, I'm trying to find the, the quotes here. Basically deeply abusive and nasty and prone to fits of rage and temper tantrums. And yeah, it's abusive to staff, Has a massive staff turnover problems. 65% of her staff turned over during her time there. And everyone basically says at least that has worked for her, says that she's horrible and really mean. So are we going to put these data points together? I think we should. I think we should. I don't think we can do the benefit of the doubt thing anymore. Between the scalding hot potatoes thrown at her ex, the staffers who say that she is a brutish and nasty woman, and now this berating of a reporter for nothing. I mean, it was, it was a nothing burger and she was not having it. So I just think that everybody in California should know. And my broader lesson on this is somehow the really nasty people in politics, I mean, the really nasty people in politics are always Democrats. I'm not saying there aren't people on the Republican side that can be a little slimy and, you know, not. But if you're talking about somebody who's really in a, you know, an abusive son of a gun situation, you know, Democrats, there's a reason for that. I know they want to say it's a both sides thing, but it's not a both sides thing. And in fact, most of the Republicans that I know on the Hill and I know many of their staffers, their staffers all say they're fantastic people and they really look up to them. That's very common. Very common. I don't, I mean, I don't hear that. I hear stuff about the Democrats. Oh, you're like Buck. Well, who else? I don't know. Maybe Amy Klobuchar of Senate fame, who is famous for eating her salad with a comb and throwing things at staffers. Yeah, true stories. Those were the allegations, at least. Allegations. Throwing things at staffers, eating salad with a comb. You know, do you have any, I don't know any Republicans who eat salad with a comb and throw. And throw things at their staffers. I'm just saying I do not know that happening. So if you do, please call in and tell me. All right, look, Israel represents the only true democracy in the Middle East. They've been a steady ally of the US since 1948, particularly when we needed friends in that part of the world. Israel is also home to the Jewish people, same people with a rich history that has benefited Christians alike for centuries. If you're of the Christian faith, you likely had a Bible lesson or two that tells the story of the Jewish people and you read or heard the words emphasizing the care and protection of looking after those that are Jewish, God's chosen people. Many Christians in America our standing with Israel this month by participating in a growing movement created by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. It's called Flags of Fellowship. This countrywide effort, the Flags of Fellowship, unites churches across America. Planting over 1 million Israeli flags across our land show the world that Israel is not alone. To get more information about how you can join the Flags of fellowship movement, visit IFCJ.org, that's IFCJ.org you don't know what you don't know, right? But you could on the Sunday Hang.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

With Clay and Buck podcast, life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Anabe, you never have to stress about Messes again. @washablesofas.com Discover Anabe Sofas, the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Clay Travis]

You know it's been two years ago the terrorists murdered more than 1200 innocent Israelis, took 250 hostages. And today it seems like the cries of the dead and the dying are being drowned out by the shouts of anti Semitic hatred. Yet as the world may look away, a light shines in this darkness. Now united in faith, Christians and Jews in America standing together with Israel this month by participating in a growing movement, it's the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Flags of Fellowship Now Flags of Fellowship unites churches all across the country, planting over 1 million Israeli flags all across the U.S. and together we will combat hate with the scourge of antisemitism. One flag at a time. And through our prayers, we can save lives, bring hope, and be part of seeing a brighter future unfold before our eyes. To get more information on how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement, just go to ifcj.org, that's ifcj.org today.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. And we got some calls coming in. Let's get to them. First up on the list, Mike in Waco, Texas. What's going on, Mike?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Yeah, hey, thank you. I just wanted to say that you said earlier that that candidate for governor, California, called out that reporter, got tested with her for no reason. And I'd like to submit to you that there was a reason. And the reason was that that reporter dared to question her and press her for a logical answer. Just like with when you say that it's not possible for a man to become a woman or a woman to become a man, people react sometimes like as if you're hateful by simply asking the question or.

[Buck Sexton]

Mike, I will, I will accept your editor, your addendum here. I think that's just a matter of speaking. I meant that there's no, you know, there's like no grounds for her to freak out. But you're correct, the grounds for her freak out are the questions. So, so I think, I think that's a fair, a fair addition. So thank you. I agree. Note or comment taken. Gerard in Louisiana. What's going on, Gerard?

[Senator Rand Paul]

I'm doing fine. How are you, Buck?

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, I'm having a great day here in a very wide open government shutdown D.C. it's the loveliest D.C. i can remember, honestly. But go ahead.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Sounds great. My question was that Katie Porter kept referring to the fact that if you keep asking follow up questions, we'll never get through all your questions. It seems to me that she is intimating that she had a copy of all the questions ahead of time.

[Buck Sexton]

Could be. Could be. I mean, I don't, I assume that she just, you know, that's, you could be right. I wouldn't jump there necessarily because she can assume that there's other questions that she's going to ask her. Were they submitted in advance? Maybe, but I think that I could tie in. Thank you, Gerard, for calling in. I can tie in your comment with Mike's comment, which is the problem here is that questions are being asked and followed up on and, and Katie Porter expects a CBS affiliate journalist to just sit there and do dictation from the likely Democrat candidate for governor after the primary's over. You know, so there's the, the outrage comes from. What are you doing? You're not supposed to do this. A little bit like the Dasha Burns lady who actually was the one who said the thing about the Pandora's box. Remember she, wasn't she the one who reported on Fetterman, who actually has been doing great for a Democrat. But I think she said that she talked to Fetterman and he seemed a little not all there and everyone went completely insane on her and it was clear that he was not all there. But you're not allowed to say that was the point. So the most obvious, it's like the Biden thing, the most obvious observation is not allowed if it goes against what the party dictates. All right. Prize picks. Our friend Clay Travis, let's be honest, let's not tell him this because I don't think Clay's ego needs any help. But he has been in fuego with his, his prize pick so far this year. He has been nailing it. He's got a bunch of the things where you get like four or five times your money. He is doing a phenomenal job and prize picks is so much fun, especially when you can drive, when, when you can rely on the expertise of somebody like our good buddy Clay. So millions of members, billions of dollars awarded in winnings, get started today on prize picks. Download that app. Get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5 and you download the Prizepix app. Use my name Buck as your promo code. Get $50 instantly when you play $5. That's code buck on prizepix to get $50 instantly when you play five bucks. Clay's going to be back tomorrow. He's going to be giving you his picks for the football games that are happening this weekend. I believe they occur on Sunday. I am told prize picks, that's or the college ones are Saturday. I know things. Prize picks. Download it. Use code Buck. Clay will be back tomorrow. Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. We are joined by Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Senator Paul, always appreciate you making time for us today.

[Senator Rand Paul]

No problem. Thanks for having me.

[Buck Sexton]

Government shutdown so far. I got to say it's pretty nice walking around the streets of D.C. i know that's a very basic view of things, but government seems to be working reasonably well for a so called shutdown. What is, as you, as you see it at issue today? Why have we seen no progress in the Schumer shutdown negotiations?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, I think the great irony of this situation is that every Democrat in the Senate and every Democrat virtually in the House as well, voted for these spending levels in December of last year. So this continuing resolution has spending levels that were actually set under Biden. These are the Biden spending levels. And every Democrat has previously voted for them. The reason they're not voting for them now, at least according to the Democrats, is, well, we want to renew these temporary Obamacare subsidies. Well, that's moving the goalpost because these people have all voted for the spending bill before, and it doesn't include the Obamacare subsidies. Never has. And the reason the Obamacare subsidies are expiring is because that's the law that the Democrats wrote. They wrote them to be temporary because they were trying to cram a lot of spending into a reconciliation bill, and the only way they could do it was to make things temporary. So really, this is all on the Democrats, and eventually they will fold and they will vote to reopen the government.

[Buck Sexton]

Now, why are the. If you could dig into this a bit, Senator Paul, why are these subsidies for Obamacare both so important to Democrats and so necessary?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, you know, the argument with Obamacare when it started, you know, back around 2010, was that it was going to keep health care insurance prices from going up and make healthcare more affordable. It turns out if you look at healthcare insurance prices, they've gone up ever since. There's been no slowdown in the increase in healthcare prices. In fact, when you subsidize something, you're increasing the demand for it. You actually are in all likelihood increasing the price of things. But they haven't been successful. These Obamacare subsidies aren't really going for the poor. They're actually going to relatively rich people now. And like I say, they were brought in by the Democrats during the pandemic. They were said to be, oh, well, people are having a tough time to the pandemic. We're going to give them extra money. The real problem, though, that nobody discusses around here is there is no money to give these people. I mean, the money literally has to be borrowed from China or printed up by the Federal Reserve. We're $2 trillion short with the current levels of welfare and warfare, frankly, and we're $2 trillion short a year. Where's the money come from? It's to be borrowed.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, well, with, with gold that, I think $4,000 an ounce now. I mean, I think people are starting to see that the printing press is very much in use, unfortunately. And I wanted to know if you could also look into or explain to us a little bit, Senator Paul, the argument over whether some of this funding or whatever the be makes it to subsidize care for illegals. You're an MD as well as a senator, so you have a particular insight into this. What is the truth of that?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, it's confusing in the sense that we do have many laws that say welfare is not supposed to go to illegal aliens, but we also have laws that say illegal aliens aren't supposed to vote either. And we know for a fact that illegal aliens are. The most recent prominent case of them voting was a guy that was that superintendent from Des Moines who was here in the country illegally and registered to vote and voting in Maryland and had been for some time. So we know that the states, particularly the Democrat states, have very lax rules. California and others, they just don't really police the situation. Also, we do know that illegal people illegally in the country are voting. We also know that they're receiving health care as well. So in legislation that previously passed by Republicans, language was explicitly put in to say it cannot and should not happen. And the Democrats are trying to repeal that language now and try to make it such that states could make the decision to give welfare and voting privileges to illegal aliens.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Paul, this isn't the first. I think this is the 11th shutdown. Right, but this isn't your first rodeo with this. And I think in the past, what has been at least a narrative the media pounds, whether it's really fair or true or not is, oh, the Republicans are being blamed. This is gonna hurt Republicans politically. I'm certainly not seeing that. And I don't think whatever data that can be trusted on this, to the degree can be trusted, shows that what is the. As you see it for the Democrats I'll speak to. Specifically, if you could speak to maybe on just the Senate side, what is their calculation here? Why have they decided that this is the Hill they wanna fight on?

[Senator Rand Paul]

I think they're miscalculated. They also, I think the Republicans have not hit them hard enough yet. I mean, the Republicans. I'm about the only one I hear reminding people that the Democrats all voted for these spending levels nine months ago. They're the exact same spending levels. One reason Republicans don't bring this up is Republicans used to be critical of the Biden spending levels, but now the Republicans are all voting for the spending levels. That's why I'm really the only Republican voting against not only the Democrat spending levels, but voting against the Republican levels because they incurred a deficit this year of about 2 trillion and are projected to incur a deficit next year of about 2.1 trillion. So I think both parties are terrible on the deficit. I'm voting against both the Republican and the Democrat plan because the one thing that is bipartisan up here is spending money we don't have.

[Buck Sexton]

We're going to be at 40 trillion then in this debt really soon. And, you know, Elon Musk came in with Doge and there seemed to be this moment in time, Senator, where there was at least the beginnings of a willingness to do something about this. It does not look like that has really come to come to fruition. Maybe that's putting it too gently, that we're even trying to turn the spending curve around. Do you think that there will be, I know the White House has spoken about this, some substantial trimming of federal employees that will occur during the shutdown. How does that work?

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, Doge did a lot of good things. I was a big supporter of Elon Musk and the things he brought to government. We did end up voting on two rescission packages or one, but then they did one as a pocket rescission. And so about 12 billion in foreign aid was reduced. You know, I've been championing reductions in foreign aid for a decade here and have introduced over 35 bills to do it. This is the first time we've done it since I'm here. But the problem is the continuing resolution that Republicans have put forward spends at the currently appropriated levels for foreign aid that doesn't include the $12 billion in cuts. So basically, if they pass the continuing resolution that Republicans want everybody to vote for now, it'll have the foreign aid back in it. And so if you want to get rid of foreign aid again, we will have to do the same thing again next year. So taking away the 12 billion that didn't become the new baseline, it's not a lower baseline for foreign aid. They're going back to the original one with this continuing resolution. So it's another reason not to be too excited about what the Republicans have put forward, is that we're going to start all over again with the things that Doge put forward and the rescission packages. We have to do it again next year.

[Buck Sexton]

Do you think there's any realistic scenario where there's a willingness on the Republican side to make what has to happen for real cuts to be made? I mean, I feel like we've been talking about this. You have.

[Clay Travis]

I have a lot of.

[Buck Sexton]

A lot of everybody listening now talking about this going back to the origins of the Tea Party. So this is looking like what, 15 years of when are we gonna make cuts? The debt is too high. The debt is too high. We just discussed that. It's gonna be at $40 trillion. When, when do we decide to do something about this? Or is it just a waste of discussion at this point because we haven't suffered the economic fallout from our profligate spending, so no one's going to do anything about it.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, the lay of the land is this. There are no Democrats that will vote to cut one penny of $1 of federal spending. On the Republican side, there's a lot of lip service. But when I presented my penny plan budget, which would balance over five years, I did this two weeks ago, 36 Republicans supported it. Now, that's the high watermark. That's the most I've gotten before. But it also means that I think about 16 rep. Do not support it. These 16 Republicans often are the leaders of the spending committees, the appropriations committees. And so there isn't a desire among them really to cut spending. And so until we have a Republican majority and a majority of those Republicans are willing to cut, we don't get anywhere. It also doesn't help when people say, well, we're not going to look at Social Security or Medicare and Medicaid. We'll do it sometime in two or three years from now. We'll make the date in the future. All of these things, when you take them off limits and you don't do anything to footstep food stamps. If you take all of these entitlements off the table, you really. There isn't enough waste and fraud to cut to actually balance the budget.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, what do we have to do? I mean, is this turning into the entitlement discussion again, which nobody wants to touch?

[Senator Rand Paul]

And it's about elections. You meet, you need more hardcore people. I think the people out there, you know, that I meet as I travel the country, they are ready to cut spending, they are ready for more significant cuts, and they're ready for somebody who would introduce a balanced budget. So I think if my penny plan budget were surveyed among the public, among the Republican public, I think you'd get 90% of the vote. You know, but up here, I'm getting about 60% of the Republicans for it. So really, the Republicans up here aren't all getting the message. They need to get the message that the debt is a real problem and it's time to start cutting spending. But a lot of them haven't Got that message yet?

[Buck Sexton]

How long do you think this shutdown's going to last? And is it a big deal to you whether it goes for another day or another two weeks? Does it really make much difference? How do you see that?

[Senator Rand Paul]

The rumor is that the Democrats have a left wing socialist rally in D.C. this weekend and they're afraid of their left wing, they're afraid of the socialists. And so they have to show they're putting up a fight for the Obama, the free stuff, the Obamacare, free subsidies. So the rumor is they will fight through the weekend and then give in next week. They'll give in because there'll be some sort of public, public promise that we'll negotiate on the subsidies. And frankly, there probably are 15 Republicans that will vote to increase or keep the Obamacare subsidies. They don't care that it has to be borrowed. They don't care that it's more big government. So what will happen is all the Democrats will BE for that, 15 or 20 Republicans will vote with them. And big government always wins. But I think the public's getting increasingly frustrated with it. So there's going to be a time at which the public is going to say, let's, you know, let's throw some of the bums out.

[Buck Sexton]

Why do we need subsidies if Obamacare makes health care cheaper? That seems to be a conundrum, Sandy.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Yeah, one of the things we could do, and I've proposed this for years now, I propose that we let people, consumers, people who buy health insurance, let them bargain collectively. What I mean by that is if you belong to Costco, there are 44 million members of Costco. If Costco were to buy your insurance for you, my guess is Costco can get a better price than you can individually.

[Buck Sexton]

If my wife could buy her insurance from Costco, by the way, it would have happened yesterday. She loves Costco, so keep going.

[Senator Rand Paul]

And the, the, the rule that's keeping us from doing this is a federal rule that says you can buy insurance with a group. You all have to be in the same employment. You have to be ditch diggers or carpenters or welders. You can buy your insurance together, but you can't be in multiple different employment, which is a really dumb rule. And last Trump administration, I got him to do an executive order. It was challenged in court, but I have a bill that would do this. It would change what's called the ERISA law and would let anybody who wants to join any group buy insurance. And then what you'd have is you'd have the head of the Costco's health insurance buying would sit down with the head of the big insurance companies and you'd really get a much better price. And so that's the one thing you could do that is a market phenomenon. It's a way of injecting the market that actually would bring down health care costs.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Rand Paul, always appreciate you, sir. Thanks for making the stop today with us.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Thanks for having me.

[Buck Sexton]

It was a time when dinner was more than just a meal. It was the hour every day when family came together. Actually, you know what? I'm going to tell you something right now. There was the Jesuit headmaster of my high school when my parents did the first parent teacher day, he sat all the parents together in the auditorium and he said, you know, one of the most important things you can do with your kids is have dinner together. True story. This is a guy who'd been an educator for like 40 years and very, very smart guy. He said one of the most important things. Now, I know people work, travel, busy, but the point is when you can, you should do it. And Good Ranchers certainly believes in that. Good Ranchers is calling Americans back to the table. From now through Thanksgiving. Good Ranchers is encouraging families to sit down and share a meal every Thursday. Doesn't have to be fancy, just has to be together. And here's the fun part. Every week, one lucky winner will win a free Thanksgiving ham for just sharing a photo of their gathering on their Instagram story and tagging oodranchers and using the hashtag backtoth. That's hashtag back to the table. So visit goodranchers.com use my name Buck as your code when you subscribe for an additional $40 off your initial order plus free meat for life. You get to pick that free meat gift. It's delicious. Code buck and $40 off plus free meat for life. It's a great deal. I eat the last meal I made with Kerry last weekend. We had Good Ranchers filets and I think it was boned in New York strip. Or maybe it was boned in ribeye. I get them both from Good Ranchers. It's all delicious, but I was working my magic on my cast iron with Good Ranchers. It was delicious and I'm gonna be doing it again this weekend. Go to goodranchers.com use my name Buck as your promo code. 40 off free meat for life. Check it out. Today, news and politics, but also a little comic relief. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your annabe sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return, shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back. Upgrade [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply it's been.

[Clay Travis]

Two years ago the terrorists murdered more than 1200 innocent Israelis, took 250 hostages and today it seems like the cries of the dead and the dying are being drowned out by the shouts of anti Semitic hatred. Yet as the world may look away, a light shines in this darkness. Now united in faith Christians and Jews in America standing together with Israel this month by participating in a growing movement, it's the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Flags of Fellowship Now Flags of Fellowship unites churches all across the country, planting over 1 million Israeli flags all across the U.S. and together we will combat hate with the scourge of anti Semitism one flag at a time. And through our prayers we can save lives, bring hope and be part of seeing a brighter future unfold before our eyes. To get more information on how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement, just go to ifcj.org that's ifcj.org today.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay Anne Buck. And we're going to be talking shortly to Senator Ron Johnson about the weaponization of law, the DOJ stuff, the testimony by Attorney General Bondi up on Capitol Hill. Also some very interesting statistics coming out from FBI Director Patel. So we shall dive into that momentarily. So make sure you stick around with us. And let's see, we have DD Jim from Rockland county listens on W O R Radio. What's up? Play it. As far as superheroes go, nobody beats Superman because he's the only one who has truly super human powers.

[Senator Rand Paul]

The Hulk just gets mad and big. Everybody Else needs some kind of gadget to protect them.

[Buck Sexton]

The only thing that takes Superman down is kryptonite. And I don't think kryptonite is just laying around that you can get on Amazon.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, maybe Amazon, but that's what makes Superman the best.

[Buck Sexton]

Very in depth analysis to our superhero analogy here. I have to say we're going way beyond my, my knowledge here. Although I feel like he's not giving Hulk his fair due. He's a rather, rather burly fellow, the Hulk. You know what I mean? Very, very muscular. Let's get call Brian in North Carolina. What's up, Brian?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Hey, Buck. I was just listening to your call with Rand Paul and it kind of ticked me off in a way because I've been thinking about this for years upon years about insurance. You know, you're discussing about group, group insurance and so on, and how if you go to Costco, you'd be able to get the cheaper policies because. Or not cheaper policies, but you'd be able to get policies that would provide you with cheaper medical coverage because you're in a quote, group. That whole argument to me seems outdated. Okay, that made sense 60 years ago, 40 years ago, before we had computers. The whole idea back then was we.

[Clay Travis]

Sell them in groups.

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, we'll sell insurance to it, to a business because, oh, they may have 2,000 people and I can get 2,000 people signed up. And then we'll admit it'll make administration of the policies easier. Well, today there's a thing called a computer and you can get online. And if I wanted to, I could go to Anthem or Blue Cross, Bruce Yield. I could sign up and buy their insurance policy, but I would have to pay the individual prices.

[Clay Travis]

And my.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, this is where insurance is a, is inherently so. I'm sorry we're at the end here, Brian, but thank you for calling. In insurance, just like on your house, there's a cost sharing component to it. And in healthcare, that gets very complicated very quickly because how old are you? How healthy are you? You need younger, healthier people to subsidize the older, sicker people or else you don't have insurance. Right. This is the question. This is the problem. This is the crux of the matter. This is an iHeart podcast.