Summary of "Hour 2 - WI Sen. Ron Johnson"
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Release Date: June 10, 2025

Introduction

In the second hour of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton engage in an in-depth conversation with Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. The discussion centers around the pressing issue of federal government spending, the burgeoning national debt, and the implications of the recently passed spending bill, often referred to as the "Big Beautiful Bill."

Overview of Federal Spending and National Debt

Senator Ron Johnson opens the dialogue by highlighting the alarming increase in federal expenditures over recent years. He states:

"We spent $4.4 trillion in 2019. Pandemic hits spent 6.5. And we never look back. [...] I'll spend over 7 trillion. That's a 58% increase."
[03:07]

Johnson emphasizes that the government has maintained a dangerously high level of spending since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, contrasting it with historical precedents such as post-World War II budget adjustments.

He further elaborates on the deficits under various administrations:

"Under the Bush administration, eight years, they average deficits of $250 billion a year. Obama came in his first four years, 1.3 trillion..."
[03:44]

Key Points:

• Federal spending surged from $4.4 trillion in 2019 to over $7 trillion post-pandemic.
• Historical deficits under Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations laid the groundwork for current fiscal challenges.
• Biden administration continued high spending levels, averaging a $1.9 trillion deficit over four years.

Allocation of Increased Spending

The hosts probe into where the additional federal funds are being directed. Senator Johnson clarifies:

"It's literally across the board. [...] we need to forensically audit every line, every program..."
[05:29]

He distinguishes between discretionary and mandatory spending, noting that beyond Social Security, Medicare, and interest payments, funds are also flowing into Medicaid and other mandatory programs. Johnson argues for a meticulous audit to identify and eliminate inefficiencies:

"We've never done it. [...] take the Doge team, transfer them over this process."
[06:04]

Key Points:

• Increased spending is distributed across various sectors, making it challenging to pinpoint specific areas for cuts.
• Mandatory spending, including Medicaid and other programs, constitutes a significant portion of the budget increase.
• Advocacy for a comprehensive audit to scrutinize over 2,600 federal programs.

Interaction with the Trump Administration

The conversation shifts to Senator Johnson's recent interactions with the Trump administration regarding the spending bill:

"I was in the White House last Wednesday [...] let Kevin Hassett and his economic team go through these."
[07:20]

Johnson recounts presenting his charts to President Trump, which reportedly made a significant impact:

"One chart saved the President's life."
[07:30]

However, he expresses skepticism about the bill's ability to address long-term fiscal issues, advocating instead for systemic changes to maintain pre-pandemic spending levels.

Key Points:

• Collaborative efforts with the Trump administration to address spending concerns.
• Recognition of the spending bill's immediate benefits but acknowledgment of its insufficiency for long-term fiscal stability.
• Proposal of a "forcing mechanism" to ensure sustained fiscal responsibility.

Political Feasibility and Party Dynamics

Clay Travis challenges the practicality of Senator Johnson's proposals within the current political climate, referencing Stephen Miller's stance on budget negotiations:

"Can you address that?"
[09:59]

Senator Johnson responds by discussing potential legislative pathways, including reconciliation processes and budget review panels, while noting internal Republican disagreements:

"I think we're going to make it more conservative. [...] there's some people who agree with you. Chip Roy, for instance..."
[10:34]

He critiques the House's approach to the spending bill, asserting that the initial reductions were insufficient and misallocated, particularly in areas like Medicaid expansion.

Key Points:

• Acknowledgment of internal Republican divisions regarding the extent of spending cuts.
• Critique of the House's allocation of $1.5 trillion in spending reductions, particularly within Medicaid.
• Emphasis on the need for bipartisan cooperation to enact meaningful fiscal reforms.

Impact of Chronic Debt and Inflation

Senator Johnson delves into the broader implications of sustained high deficits, including the devaluation of the dollar and the silent tax of inflation:

"Reagan in 98, a dollar you held in 1998 is worth 51 cents. That dollar is now worth 80 cents. That's permanent damage being done."
[25:07]

He warns of a potential "death spiral" where rising interest rates could exacerbate the debt problem, leading to increased borrowing costs and reduced fiscal flexibility:

"If they look at us as not serious about this, [...] bond markets has been telling that they're going to demand a higher and higher interest rate."
[33:20]

Key Points:

• Chronic deficits contribute to the devaluation of the U.S. dollar, eroding purchasing power.
• Inflation acts as an indirect tax, diminishing the real value of money.
• Rising interest rates may limit future government spending options and strain fiscal resources.

Future Strategies and Solutions

Seeking solutions, Senator Johnson proposes the establishment of a budget review panel and the employment of forensic auditors to meticulously evaluate federal spending:

"I propose a budget review panel, hire forensic auditors, take the Doge team, transfer them over this process."
[06:04]

He underscores the necessity of a sustained, methodical approach to fiscal reform, rather than relying solely on single legislative packages:

"A process to achieve and maintain [reasonable spending levels]."

Additionally, he emphasizes the importance of public awareness and accountability, highlighting the role of the media and constituent pressure in driving fiscal responsibility.

Key Points:

• Creation of specialized panels and hiring of forensic auditors for detailed budget analysis.
• Need for ongoing, structured processes to ensure long-term fiscal sustainability.
• Leveraging media and public opinion to foster accountability and support for spending reforms.

Views on AI and Economic Growth

The discussion briefly touches upon the role of technology and artificial intelligence in mitigating economic challenges. Senator Johnson expresses caution regarding AI, noting both its potential and limitations:

"Be very cautious of AI. [...] it is often confidently wrong."
[30:30]

He references Milton Friedman to illustrate the balance between technological advancement and employment:

"Milton Friedman was in China [...] he's asking the question, can you stay."
[30:04]

While acknowledging that productivity gains from AI could aid economic growth, Johnson remains skeptical about its capacity to offset the deep-rooted fiscal issues.

Key Points:

• Recognition of AI's potential to enhance productivity and economic growth.
• Caution against over-reliance on AI due to its propensity for errors and the complexities of integrating it into the economy.
• Emphasis on traditional fiscal measures as primary solutions to economic challenges.

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

As the episode progresses towards its conclusion, Senator Ron Johnson reiterates the urgency of addressing the national debt and advocates for comprehensive fiscal reforms. He likens the situation to familial financial responsibility, stressing the importance of prudent spending:

"It's easy to be the parent... Hey, we're going to go to Disney World. It's really hard to be the parent says, but we can't afford it."
[33:56]

Clay Travis summarizes the conversation by highlighting the critical need for sustainable economic policies and the challenges posed by entrenched spending habits. The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the importance of informed governance and fiscal accountability.

Key Points:

• Urgent call for comprehensive and sustained fiscal reforms to prevent economic collapse.
• Analogy of personal financial responsibility to national budget management.
• Reinforcement of the necessity for bipartisan efforts to achieve meaningful and lasting solutions.

Notable Quotes

• Senator Ron Johnson:
  "This is our budget, more than 2,000 lines of federal budget, more than 2,600 federal programs."
  [05:29]

• Senator Ron Johnson:
  "The first step in solving any problem is admitting you have one."
  [07:42]

• Senator Ron Johnson:
  "We've been living with a chronic debt crisis now for decades. It's called the devaluation of the dollar."
  [25:07]

• Senator Ron Johnson:
  "If they look at us as not serious about this, [...] the bond markets has been telling that they're going to demand a higher and higher interest rate."
  [33:20]

Conclusion

This episode offers a candid and comprehensive examination of the Federal government's fiscal policies through the lens of Senator Ron Johnson. The discussion underscores the gravity of the national debt, critiques current spending practices, and advocates for rigorous auditing and sustained fiscal reforms. The conversation serves as a clarion call for accountability and prudent economic management to safeguard the nation's financial future.