Hour 3 - Are You Following the P Diddy Case?

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show: Hour 3 - Are You Following the P Diddy Case?

Release Date: May 14, 2025

In the third hour of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the high-profile criminal trial of Sean Combs, widely known as P Diddy. The discussion provides a comprehensive analysis of the case, exploring the charges against Combs, the prosecution's strategy, potential defense arguments, and the broader implications for celebrity justice. Former NYPD Inspector and attorney Paul Morrow joins the conversation to offer expert insights into the trial's progression.

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1. Introduction to the Diddy Case

Clay Travis opens the discussion by highlighting the growing attention surrounding the trial of Sean Combs. He provides a background for listeners who may not be familiar with the details:

Clay Travis [03:00]: "We're gonna talk to Paul Morrow at the bottom of the hour who has been in the trial, I believe in New York City, which is starting to get a great deal of attention."

2. Overview of Sean Combs' Legal Troubles

Clay outlines the series of legal challenges New York City has faced, mentioning previous high-profile cases before focusing on Combs:

Clay Travis [03:00]: "In New York City, it feels like, has had one big trial after another... and now we have got Puff Daddy, AKA Diddy, AKA Sean Combs."

He recounts the initial incident that led to the trial:

Clay Travis [04:30]: "Everybody almost on the planet saw the 2016 hotel video of Diddy running out with, I think he was still in a towel and beating up his girlfriend Cassie."

3. Charges Against Sean Combs

The discussion shifts to the specifics of the criminal charges facing Combs:

• Sexual Racketeering: Combs is accused of cross-state prostitution activities.
• RICO Allegations: Accusations of operating a criminal conspiracy.
• Additional Charges: Possession of illegal firearms and drug distribution.

Buck Sexton [23:12]: "He faces potentially the rest of his life in prison for sexual racketeering, basically crossing state lines, prostitution allegations..."

4. Prosecution's Strategy and Challenges

Buck Sexton analyzes the prosecution's approach, noting the difficulty in proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt:

Buck Sexton [24:46]: "The prosecution's strategy, right. And it's way, way too early, I would argue, to be able to come to some sort of conclusion as to the likelihood of his conviction."

He emphasizes the challenge of linking personal misconduct to broader criminal activities required by the RICO charges.

5. Defense's Perspective and Potential Arguments

Leon Naifak and Clay Travis discuss potential defense strategies, questioning the criminal nature of Combs' actions despite reprehensible behavior:

Leon Naifak [06:26]: "He's a very bad person... but the criminal accounts that they're going after him on, I tend to agree with Clay. I am not sure that they are likely to get beyond a reasonable doubt on them."

Clay adds that the civil lawsuit initiated by Combs' girlfriend could undermine the prosecution's case:

Clay Travis [12:47]: "She filed a civil lawsuit seeking monetary damages... But the criminal charges entirely come out of the civil complaint that she filed."

6. Comparison with Other High-Profile Cases

The hosts draw parallels between Combs' trial and other celebrity cases like Harvey Weinstein and R. Kelly, discussing societal perceptions and the treatment of powerful individuals:

Leon Naifak [09:15]: "It's not dissimilar in some ways from Harvey Weinstein... these are some of the biggest people in our culture, and people around them knew that weird or deeply criminal stuff was going on."

Buck concurs, noting the evolving understanding of abuse dynamics in the legal system:

Buck Sexton [26:20]: "Our understanding of these sorts of things have very much evolved... we understand them better and we have to treat them differently."

7. Jury Composition and Its Impact

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the all-male jury and its potential influence on the trial's outcome:

Clay Travis [31:24]: "Eight men, four women on the jury... If I'm Diddy, I want as many men on this trial as I can get."

Buck acknowledges the strategic selection but also highlights societal shifts in perceptions of abuse:

Buck Sexton [32:17]: "As a society, we appreciate the control that an abuser can have over the abused... It's a very blanket statement, but it's one."

8. Insights from Paul Morrow

Paul Morrow provides an expert analysis of the trial's current state and future trajectory:

Paul Morrow [22:39]: "The prosecutor's strategy... establishing that he's not a good guy... But that doesn't supply enough beyond a reasonable doubt for a conviction."

He predicts that additional members of Combs' organization may testify, potentially strengthening the prosecution's case:

Paul Morrow [27:30]: "There are other members of this organization who are going to come in and they're going to button up the piece that you guys are saying is potentially missing."

9. Potential Legal Miscalculations by Combs

The hosts discuss Combs' decision to pursue criminal charges after settling the civil lawsuit, suggesting it might be a significant misstep:

Clay Travis [34:20]: "He settled it for reportedly eight figures... What a colossal miscalculation this was."

Buck speculates that the settlement may have led to increased scrutiny and additional lawsuits:

Buck Sexton [35:10]: "He may have decided that he was being blackmailed... and he has to call BS because this could go on forever."

10. Concluding Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Clay and Buck reiterate the complexities of the case and the high stakes involved, emphasizing the broader implications for legal proceedings against influential figures.

Buck Sexton [36:26]: "Hope to see you there."

They also hint at future discussions and related cases, maintaining engagement with their audience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Clay Travis [04:30]: "Everybody almost on the planet saw the 2016 hotel video of Diddy running out with... beating up his girlfriend Cassie."

• Buck Sexton [23:12]: "He faces potentially the rest of his life in prison for sexual racketeering... crossing state lines, prostitution allegations."

• Leon Naifak [06:26]: "He's a very bad person... but the criminal accounts that they're going after him on, I tend to agree with Clay."

• Buck Sexton [24:46]: "The prosecution's strategy... it's way, way too early to be able to come to some sort of conclusion as to the likelihood of his conviction."

• Buck Sexton [26:20]: "Our understanding of these sorts of things have very much evolved... we understand them better and we have to treat them differently."

• Clay Travis [34:20]: "He settled it for reportedly eight figures... What a colossal miscalculation this was."

---

This episode provides listeners with an in-depth look into the Sean Combs trial, offering perspectives on legal strategies, societal implications, and the challenges of prosecuting high-profile individuals. With expert commentary from Paul Morrow, the hosts present a balanced analysis, encouraging listeners to consider the nuances of justice when fame and power intersect.

Transcript

[Leon Naifak]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Paul Morrow]

Fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran Contra Affair.

[Buck Sexton]

The things that happened were so bizarre and insane I can't begin to tell you.

[Leon Naifak]

Please do.

[Paul Morrow]

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in hour number three, Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We are rolling through. We're gonna talk to Paul Morrow at the bottom of the hour who has been in the trial, I believe in New York City, which is starting to get a great deal of attention. First couple of hours, here's what we've been talking about. The incredible productivity of Trump's trip to the Middle east, analyzing everything associated with that. The continued fallout of the COVID up of Joe Biden's mental and physical deterioration which is now captivating the media in advance of the release of the book Original Sin, which is going to tell all of you all of the things that we have been telling you for years but but did tell you to be fair, that all of this would come out in the wake of the election and that all of the true stories about Biden's mental and physical decline behind closed doors would in fact eventually go public. And that is where we are, as Democrats are unable to figure out how to respond. And the CNNs and the MSNBC of the world, the journalist in quotation marks that are on air at those networks, all of those individuals are now scrambling to try to get out of the, the mess that they have made themselves by now claiming, oh, it was a cover up, nobody could have known. But we've broken down all of that. Big story, however, in the criminal justice system. New York City, it feels like, has had one big trial after another. They had the sham Trump prosecution, both the civil case and then also the Alvin Bragg case. In New York City, we had the trial of the subway hero who was charged with manslaughter, second degree murder. I don't even remember exactly what those charges were, but he was found not guilty. We had the Menendez gold bars trial, Senator Menendez and his wife both convicted in New York City court. And now we have got Puff Daddy, AKA Diddy, AKA Sean Combs. I think I'm just going to call him Diddy on the show because it's only one word and it's easier. And Buck, you and I were talking about this off air. This went mega viral. Everybody almost on the planet saw the 2016 hotel video of Diddy running out with the, I think he was still in a towel and beating up his girlfriend Cassie. So background, if you haven't been following this case. She filed a explosive civil lawsuit seeking monetary damages for what she claimed was outrageous behavior perpetrated against her by, by Diddy in a multi year consensual relationship. I believe they were boyfriend and girlfriend for a decade. Producer Ali, I believe you have been following this case somewhat closely too. So if I get any of these facts wrong or you want to step in and say, actually, Clay, just, I'm, I'm trying to set the table for people who might not have been following this. It is a criminal trial. Diddy had been housed with Sam Bankman, Fried, among others, that is celebrities that were being held in this New York City cell as they awaited trial. And, and so the case has gone to trial. Diddy faces potentially the rest of his life in prison for sexual racketeering, basically crossing state lines, prostitution allegations, all of these things. And I'm gonna be honest with you, Buck. I have been reading everything that Cassie is testifying to and based on what I have seen and I, by the way, 800-282-2882, if any of you are following this and want to weigh in as well, I don't think that this is criminal behavior. Beyond a reasonable doubt. Well, that's my take.

[Leon Naifak]

And you and I have talked about it. I don't think you mind me sharing. It's grotesque, reprehensible and demonic behavior, but.

[Clay Travis]

It may be not a good dude. Not.

[Leon Naifak]

He's a very bad person. Yes, he's a very bad person. I know. Judge not lest you be judged. Yeah, this guy's a very bad person. But the criminal accounts that they're going after him on, I tend to agree with Clay. I am not sure that they are likely to get beyond a reasonable doubt on them. And that's not to say that he isn't horrible, but for example, beating a woman, that's assault. It's disgraceful. Is that past the statute of limit? I'm talking about just the simple assault that we saw on. That's what they call it.

[Clay Travis]

That has passed the. That I believe in la had passed the statute of limitations.

[Leon Naifak]

Yeah. And so is that. So then the violence counts that you could bring under other circumstances are past the statute of limitations. So this is why they've gone for this rico operating a criminal conspiracy across state lines prostitution thing. And the problem becomes very quickly, I think, for the prosecution here, this is, you know, are these people who were being given lavish gifts and, you know, rides on private jets, but not in a quid pro quo for sexual services situation. And then also, was there any actual coercion? Like, can you prove coercion? You know, I don't want to not be invited to the next party, for example, would not be coercion. Or, you know, or. Or I don't want to upset somebody who's very powerful in my industry. I don't think that's criminal coercion. Do this or I'm going to hit you or hurt you is coercion. Right. So these are the. Again, I read up on this a little bit this morning. I tend to not. I'm not a. What's the. What's the thing that everyone is true crime. I'm not a big true crime guy in general, but I would say this, Clay, to the degree that this is of interest to our audience at all. And we'll talk to Paul Morrow, who is a true crime guy because he worked as a deputy inspector, which is just a couple of rungs below, commissioner for the nypd. This is why this is so big. Puff Daddy was. Or Sean Combs, formerly Puff Daddy, then P. Diddy, maybe the biggest star in the hip hop world for about a decade, I would say. And perhaps when hip hop music was at its Actual cultural peak you could make. This is an argument. But I mean, I grew up in a New York City. I mean, oddly enough, I grew up next door to P. Diddy. For a number of years he lived. And I mean next door, like, I used to see him on the street when I was a high school kid all the time. I would see his entourage. I saw his baby blue Bentley convertible, which was a very rare car, then parked out front. Some of the biggest security guys you have ever seen in your life standing around all the time. So, I mean, I was very aware of. Of Sean Combs at the time, Clay. This guy was an absolute celebrated cultural phenomenon for, for years by all the elites. I mean, you know, I can't even begin. If you're looking for photos, I'm sure there's photos of them with the Clintons, and I'm sure there's photos of them with Anna Winter of Vogue. And I mean, this guy was the absolute pinnacle of music culture and entrepreneurial success for a number of years. But people knew about some of this stuff. People knew that there was very bad stuff going on in the background.

[Clay Travis]

It's not dissimilar in some ways from Harvey Weinstein. Right. Like, everybody in Hollywood was like, oh, how could, could we have known?

[Leon Naifak]

You know, depending on these allegations being true or not, or someone like an R. Kelly.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Leon Naifak]

Where there was also a tremendous amount of smoke and fire, as we found out in that case. In this case. Well, this is where you get into the parsing, right? There's horrible behavior, there's grotesque behavior, which, which Sean Combs is absolutely. By the way, this guy should, should, like, be completely expelled from public life. No matter what happens this trial, what he did is the, the abuse of women and the, the just the, the grotesque behavior. And that is a matter of public record that he does not dispute. He just disputes that these things violated the law. Things that we really can't talk to you about on radio. Like, it would get. It would get into that. It's inappropriate. And also, you don't really need to hear it, but it's about as grotesque as you can imagine. Sexual stuff. More grotesque. I think that a lot of you can imagine, but I just think it's. It's another moment here, Clay, where how many of these, like, cultural icons, so to speak, you know, in quotes, right? So, but I mean, he was, for a while, are able to get away with horrific. I mean, you look at, you look at the stuff against Cosby, you look at R. Kelly, you look at Harvey Weinstein I mean, you know, and I'm not leaving out anyone on purpose. Right. I mean, go, you know, the allegations against Michael Jackson, whether one believes them or not is a whole other thing. These are some of the biggest people in our culture, and people around them knew that weird or deeply criminal stuff was going on. And no one comes forward, no one says anything for years, for decades. What does that say?

[Clay Travis]

Well, the only reason this is public now is because Cassie filed the lawsuit. So if I were analyzing this from a legal perspective, I have no idea why he didn't settle the lawsuit as he had an opportunity to do before it went public. Because the minute that it went public, I think he settled for eight figures, $10 million or more within a day of the lawsuit being public. So what did he, what, what did his legal team not see here? Because essentially the charges that are brought against him entirely come out of the civil complaint that she filed. But here's my thing, and look, there's a jury of 12 that's going to decide eight men, four women, based on the opening of the prosecution's case. I don't think they have proven that he committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, my big takeaway if I were sitting on the jury is this. She dated him for a decade. I'm not saying, again, to your point, that he didn't engage in a lot of bad behavior. Bad behavior is not necessarily criminal. And if you were dating someone for a decade, it's hard for me to argue that you were coerced into behavior for a full decade. You could have left. Right.

[Leon Naifak]

I know you agree with it. I do think it's necessary to just. Bad behavior is like, you know, stepping out on your wife or something. Okay. Like that's bad behavior. This guy was engaged systematically for years and years in demonic. I don't think anybody should listen to his music ever again or be seen with him in public ever again behavior. And that's not even the criminal stuff. I just mean the stuff that he's admitted to.

[Clay Travis]

Ok. And remember, he said publicly that he couldn't vote for Trump because of allegations about Trump's behavior, which is just hysterical on so many levels because even the worst things that have been said about Trump are a pinprick of what has been alleged in this trial that he was involved in. Right. So there's a lot of this Hollywood finger wagging related to Trump that has been do as I say, not as I myself have done. Having said all of that, I don't understand what the actual crime here is beyond A reasonable doubt that he is guilty of based on the first days.

[Leon Naifak]

Of the trial is underway and we'll talk to Paul Maura about that. I will tell you that Clay, it has been known for a long time. And again, I think as a New Yorker at the time who lived next door to him, I was particularly aware of the reporting on this. You know, there was a whole incident with a, with gunfire at a nightclub and it was alleged that it was, it was his gun and he tried to pay off a guy in the entourage. Oh yeah, there were very. There are widely believed and you know, known stories of him violently assaulting and threatening other music producers and record executives and, you know, in their offices. I think he beat a guy with a wine bottle and he had to go to the hospital. I mean, he got away with this stuff for a long time. Yes, it's because he was powerful. But also I think that, I think that prosecutors didn't want to bring down an icon. I don't think that they wanted to go after somebody who was a self made billionaire from the black community who was being held up as an incredibly important and powerful cultural figure. I think he got a pass for a long time on a lot of criminal stuff. I mean, just look at the hotel camera stuff that didn't come out until now.

[Clay Travis]

Well, he was found not guilty on the shooting charges and the guy who he was with went to prison for years and basically said, hey, I took.

[Leon Naifak]

The route, Clay, that the whole point was that he got paid. You know, the whole story was that he got paid off to do that.

[Clay Travis]

But this story I don't think is going to go away. We'll talk about it at the bottom of, of the hour as it is currently underway. And if there were cameras, this would be like the Johnny Depp Amber heard story that is just.

[Leon Naifak]

You can't look away. So lawyer Clay is very honed in on. And we'll talk to Paul Moore about this as well from the investigator and law enforcement standpoint in a few minutes. Gloria Clay is very honed in on the legality or illegality of the situation, which makes perfect sense. It's funny, I just can't get beyond. And we as a country should be ashamed that we hold people like this up ever. Honestly. You know, there, there should really be some soul search and for a lot of you are like, oh, I don't listen to. If you grew up in, you know, from 1994 until like I want to say the year 2000, Sean P. Diddy Combs, you know, you're hearing this song, you're hearing his music everywhere. He's at the M, you know, the MTV Music Awards. He's at the, you know, vh, you know, all the different, what are you called, the Grammys. I mean, he's at all these things. He's held up. He is the toast of the town. The guy's a horrible human being. I mean, really. And people knew about it and they just didn't say anything.

[Clay Travis]

A billionaire. He's a billionaire now. Not just, you know, somewhat successful legitimately. A billionaire.

[Leon Naifak]

Yeah. All right, look, I want, I want to talk about something else that can really help you. It's amazing. I'm coming up on 15 years in the media business after leaving the CIA. And it's funny because I'm a long time gold holder, somebody who has had gold. I've been a believer in having gold for the long haul for a long time. And I've just purchased some more gold recently. But I want to just walk you through a few things. If you're thinking, you're like, oh, well, Trump's got the economy. Things are okay. Yeah, you're not holding gold for six months. The idea is to build gold reserves over time to prepare for uncertainty in the economy down the line. But also look at the value increases of gold. Okay, gold is now more than $3,200 an ounce. That is a huge increase in value. Okay? If you look at what gold has done in recent years, it has been going up and up and up. And it's the best hedge that anyone's thought of against inflation and a weakening dollar, which is still a major challenge, a major problem. Diversifying into gold now is easier than ever. And if you just look, okay, when I first diversified my all cash savings account and purchased some gold, the price of gold was just over $2,000 an ounce. Today, that same gold is more than $3,200 an ounce, a 60% increase in value. So owning gold makes sense for the long haul if you look at it. You can, you can find out just by checking out the prices yourself because we still have that $37 trillion in debt because the Democrats are going to be in charge again at some point. So take action today. And if you have an old IRA or 401k that you want to see growing in value over time that you don't have to manage closely, you don't have to worry about, Birchgold can help you convert that existing IRA or 401k into a gold IRA for no money out of pocket. Birchgold is the best in the business at this. Check out what they can do for you today. Text my name Buck to 9,898 98 receive your free no obligation info kit on Gold that's texting my name Buck to 9,898 98 today you know them as conservative radio hosts.

[Clay Travis]

Now just get to know them as guys on the Sunday Hang podcast with Clay and Buck. Find it in their podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts, Man.

[Leon Naifak]

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[Paul Morrow]

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency.

[Buck Sexton]

Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir?

[Clay Travis]

No.

[Paul Morrow]

No one was letting it became known as the Iran Contra affair and I'm.

[Leon Naifak]

Not taking any more questions. In just a second, I'm going to ask.

[Paul Morrow]

I'm Leon Naifak, co creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today.

[Buck Sexton]

The things that happened were so bizarre and insane I can't begin to tell you.

[Leon Naifak]

Please do.

[Paul Morrow]

To hear the whole story. Listen to Fiasco Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We got a bunch of different people weighing in on a variety of different subjects. Oh man, just gonna start a war here. First of all, here's podcast listener Liz Ff.

[Leon Naifak]

Hey guys, I love the show. Listen every day. Hey, as far as going to the grocery store, not finding what you need, or getting the wrong thing, it does go both ways I never go to the parts store for my husband unless he calls ahead first and gets the part ordered that he wants for me to pick up. And I don't allow him to tell me what it is because I want plausible deniability. So anyway, just want to let you.

[Clay Travis]

Know that it's a good, actually, I, I don't think I would be great at going to the auto parts store and trying to figure out things there either. So that is a good policy. We got a bunch of funny responses there. We'll hit some of those. But we got our buddy Paul Morrow, who's going to join us from inside of that Diddy trial, tell us what he is seeing there. But in the meantime, I want to tell all of you all about our friends at Net Suite and what a tremendous difference they can make for you and your businesses because it makes a tremendous difference to have your business organized, to have everything in one place. And we know because we're running a business, Crockett Coffee, you know, you got inventory, sales, fulfillment, customer service, warehousing, supply chain pricing. Trust me, it's a lot of work. One place it can all come together. NetSuite by Oracle number one cloud based business management system used by companies making $2 million or more in annual revenue, many of them growing into hundreds of millions of dollars in annual sales. That's where we want to be, where many of you want to be as well. And netsuite by Oracle can help you get there. If you're a business operator, business owner, not yet using NetSuite, now's a great time to do so. You can gain visibility into everything by going right now online to netsuite.com clay free CFOs Guide to AI and Machine Learning that'll help your business as well. Check it out. Netsuite.com Clay N E T S U-I-T e.com Clay all right, welcome back into.

[Leon Naifak]

Clay and Buck with some law enforcement and legal expertise here. Our friend Paul Morrow is back, former NYPD inspector. He's an attorney as well, founder of Ops Desk.org and a Fox News contributor. Inspector Morrow, great to have you back on the show, sir.

[Buck Sexton]

Great to be with you guys.

[Leon Naifak]

All right, so I know it's early stages. You might have heard a little bit of what we were talking about before with the Sean Combs trial, a lot of really grotesque stuff, salacious stuff that is considered, I think, a matter of fact and public record now on both sides. But is it going to be able to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it is criminal. What are you seeing so far? How are you viewing the likelihood of, well, whichever outcome here in this trial?

[Buck Sexton]

So what I'm seeing is the prosecutor's strategy, right. And it's way, way too early, I would argue, to be able to come to some sort of a conclusion as to the likelihood of his conviction. What the prosecution very clearly is doing is establishing right up front that as you guys put it, not a good guy. Okay. And that the acts involved here are horrific. That in and of itself, however, does not supply enough beyond a reasonable doubt for a conviction. But by establishing that right up from, from the get go, first of all, you shade, you color the perceptions of the jury going forward in regard to everything here. That's kind of going on in the Karen Reed case as well, by the way. But you got to remember something. The charges here, he's the only guy charged and you have a RICO allegation here along with some other charges. And that means that there are other members of the organization and they were not charged, which means almost certainly there's some flips coming. And that is to say people that are members of this organization who are going to come in and they're going to button up in the prosecution's mind, they're going to button up the piece that you guys are saying is potentially missing. And I'm not disagreeing with you, we just haven't gotten to it yet. You're going to have testimony, I would argue, where they are going to put forth the idea that he had an organization, that it was coercive. And then there's all this other stuff marbled throughout it, including guns, drugs, physical assaults, there's even some allegations of arson. It's going to get very, very volatile, very lurid. And that's where they're going to put their meat on the bones of the indictment as it's written.

[Clay Travis]

Why do you think they started with Cassie, his girlfriend? She is the first witness bringing the case because to me that is the most salacious. But it actually, and I'm curious how you would analyze this, is one that he might have the best defense for because she was with him for a decade. And if you truly felt like you were being mistreated, I think most people. Right. I think most people out there, if they were in a decade long relationship and you kept in that relationship, a lot of people would say, hey, she had to have consented to a lot of this. She wasn't necessarily coerced. Right. To me, starting with this actually offers him the best defense, whereas if they had started with, hey, let me get into some of the particulars of what we think were criminal behavior, maybe by people who were his former colleagues, former co workers, people that he employed. It actually looks more like a clinical crime than a broken relationship, clearly between a guy and a girlfriend.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a very smart observation because you're right, that is very much the dynamic in this. And we've seen that from the get go because notice that Combs defense. Okay, who is Mark Igniflo, by the way? A very, very competent and experienced attorney. His wife, Karen Ignifolo, is actually the defense attorney for the Mangione case. She's got Mangione. So they're well known here in New York City criminal circles. They both work for the Manhattan DA's office. Probably around when you were there. Buck with us in New York.

[Leon Naifak]

Oh, yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

But that's it. Yeah. So, you know, they've been around and they know. And he's a very competent attorney. He's a lot of high profile cases. So, you know, he's got very good representation here. But what he's done, Clay, is what the prosecution has done. Excuse me, which is a. Two female prosecutors are the heart of the team. One of whom, by the way, is the daughter of James Comey. Not James Comey, his daughter is one of the prosecutors. So this stuff is all very New York at this point. But one of the things they're going to do now is to confront the dynamic, Clay, that you're talking about subsequent to Cassie. And as I said, what they did up front is just put the black hat on Combs. They made him a bad guy to the point that even his defense had to say, hey, you know what is a bad guy? He's a domestic abuser. But that doesn't make him a RICO perp. That doesn't make him a sex trafficker. Right. They're trying to draw that distinction. So now everything is going to be colored by that. But the question you pose is now what the prosecution has to overcome, which is, was it simply transactional? Was Caskey hanging around when she had ample opportunity to get away? Was she hanging around because she was getting something out of it? And this whole thing was kind of consensual, which is going to be the defense. And that occurs. That dynamic occurs in all these cases. We saw it in Epstein and we saw it in Weinstein. In the Harvey Weinstein case, you had a similar thing. It was all transactional. And I knew what they were getting into. And this comes down to a little bit of the evolution of America's perception of these things. You're seeing it in the Menendez case, where the argument is, and it's been a winning argument so far to my shock, that we have progressed over the decades in our understanding of certain dynamics in these things, and as a result, we understand them better and we have to treat them differently. And so it's going to come down to exactly, I think what you have put on the table, which is how much the other members of Combs organization, because I'm telling you, that's who's coming here, because it's a rico, right? There's going to be other members of the organization. They're not charged. So where is everybody? They're coming on the prosecution's case and they're going to have to say he had control of her. She didn't have independent will. He threatened her, he beat her up, she didn't feel like she could leave. And you can have all kinds of other allegations about how he controlled this organization. And that's going to be where the rubber hits the road.

[Leon Naifak]

Well, you know, Paul, this goes to my next question for you, which my understanding here, and this was from early on in the case and I checked to make sure they already know that they found illegal drugs, large quantities of cocaine and method and illegal firearms. That's actually something I do know quite a bit about, because if you've got illegal firearms, it was down here in Florida, it was actually in Miami is where I live. And I think he had the serial numbers filed off on some AR15s. A big, big no, no. Now this, this comes up in the RICO case. But if they've got him on those, can they just get him separately on those illegal possession charges? And I asked, because also to me, it indicates they must think they've got something really good on them. Right. Because back in the day, if they can get them on the illegal drugs and illegal guns, why not just put them away for years on that? They must think that they can prove this conspiracy at a higher level.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, another smart question. So understand something. He's got other charges. Everybody is focusing on the RICO charge because that's the thing that tracks to like the Mafia, Gravano, Flip Dongwatti. We've all heard those stories. But there are other charges here. I'm going to point one of them out. One of them is that there isn't a gun charge here in the superseding indictment. There is a drug charge charge, however. All right, he's got a Drug distribution charge. So there is that. And that's recent because that's from when the HSI did the raid. Right. He's also got an obstruction charge. And that almost certainly goes to the 2016 thing where he tells Izzy Flores, the head, the manager, don't do anything with this tape. You got to cover up this tape somehow. Rather, they brought the statute on that forward. I'd be curious to see how they do that. But relative to these other charges that appear, those remain on the table as an option for him. And you know, the one that's actually more serious than the RICO is the sex trafficking case, because. And here's why. And this is the thing I want to tease out. This is 18 title, 18 USC 1591. Anybody can look it up. It's not. It sounds very lawyerly. Just look those numbers up. This is sex trafficking of a minor. And that's trouble for him because that carries life and the statute.

[Clay Travis]

Sorry to cut you off on that. Who is the minor? Do we know anything about that?

[Buck Sexton]

You know. No, I don't. And that's not going to a very good chance. You're not going to hear that name because obviously it's a minor. So we may hear in some vague terms, and I don't know if the person is going to testify, but 18, 15 91, which nobody's really talking about it. I looked for this interview. I had a lot of the same questions you guys do. So I started looking into the actual indictment. I pulled down the PDF as opposed to talking about it off of People magazine, and I see that it jumps right out of me. So who's.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, no kidding. I didn't know that. Let me ask you this. Eight men, four women on the jury. Am I a awful. And the answer may be very much yes. Awful, sexist, mischauvanist. If I'm Diddy, I want as many men on this trial as I can get. Because I think guys are more likely in New York City to look at this and be like, hey, these women are getting on these planes. They're consenting to travel all over the world to go to diddy parties. They weren't just getting flown around for free. They understood that. Again, this is what I'm arguing. If I'm the defense attorney, do you think that the fact that he got eight men, knowing that he only needs one to refuse to convict, right? To say, hey, this is reasonable doubt. If you were the defense attorney, would you want more men on this jury than women? Do you think that draw is better for Him.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. I mean, look, you know, that probably makes me an awful, terrible, horrible sexist person as well, but it also means that we're both living in the real world, right? Yeah. The answer would be yes, of course. Now, that said, as I said earlier, you know, the understanding of these sorts of things have very much evolved. And I don't think there's any denying that as a society, we appreciate the control that an abuser can have over the abused. And our. Our understanding of that dynamic has come a long, long way. So, you know, it's a very blanket statement and we have to be careful with how we frame that. But yeah, of course, because women are just going to be more understanding of that situation they may have experienced themselves and not, you know, it's not always men controlling women. It can be the reverse. But let's speak factually. Generally, it is one. Especially when it's physical. You know, it's men over women. This goes almost to the argument of men and women's sports. Men just have stronger bodies in a general sense and blah, blah. You guys know this. So, yeah, you're thinking in terms of men who are going to look at this thing and say to themselves, this was transactional. Cassie, so far anyway, is the main witness here, and she stayed with him for 11 years. How is that possible? There must have been a point where she could have gotten out of the limo, run into the police station and spoken her piece. And she didn't do that until years later when she decides to file a civil suit which carries a monetary imperative. Right. There's a motive embedded in that. She's going to get paid. And, you know, not coincidentally, her. Her records, her music wasn't exactly number one at that point. So there's going to be this implication that she did it for money. And ultimately she was. She got what she wanted. He settled the day after, as you guys said. So, yeah, and it just comes down to whether the jury buys it. And, you know, there's also the reverse. Some of the men may feel like, you know what? I got to make sure that they don't come across as the guy you're talking about, Clay. And so maybe they're going to lean more into being protective.

[Clay Travis]

Let me ask you something like this.

[Buck Sexton]

And others. So we'll see.

[Clay Travis]

Let me ask you this, Paul, because you hit on it. He settled this case one day after the civil suit was filed. Leave aside the criminal. The only reason he's getting charged criminally is because that civil case went public. He settled it for reportedly eight figures Is this one of the all time miscalculations that you can think of? The guy's a billionaire. If he settles this case, he had the opportunity to before it ever went public. None of this probably ensues because the entire case seems to have been a roadmap based on that civil complaint. What a colossal miscalculation this was. Especially because you already went ahead and settled it for. For, you know, 10. For $10 million or more the day after it was filed.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, you know, look, we don't know the backstory, and there almost certainly is one. I would suspect that in light of the blizzard of civil suits that resulted from his settlement with her, and it's just been a steamroller, you know, it's been an ongoing thing. He may have decided that he was being blackmailed and he may have said to himself, you know what? Look, I just gave her 10 million. Now people that I said hello to in the street are coming after me for 10 million, alleging that I did this, something similar. And I have to stop here at some point and just say, you know what? I can't do it. I have to call BS because this could go on forever. And even a billionaire like me, you know, I could be bankrupt. He didn't put out any music for a long time. He had put out a more recent album, and he was kind of like, the way I read it and I'm, you know, look, I don't follow hip hop real close. I don't think that's any shock to anybody. But, you know, even I was aware of the fact that he was kind of in the twilight of his career. He wasn't one of the more relevant names. Yeah, he had been at one point the real cultural icon. Those days were over, and so he may have taken a look at his money and had a, you know, he was supporting two, three houses. He may have said, I can't do this indefinitely. And so I'm going to fight it tooth and nail. I'm not sure he ever saw it going like this, though, because I have a feeling that if he could have it back, he would. He certainly did not expect that HSI raid on his home in L. A.

[Leon Naifak]

All right, Paul Morrow, great to talk to you as always. Thanks for chatting with us here about it. We'll have you back on as this thing progresses.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you, guys. And listen, all of you out there, Fridays at three, the Karen Reed case on Fox Nation. Tune in. We're covering a different case with a lot of lurid details as well. Hope to see you there.

[Leon Naifak]

Go check that one out for sure. Thanks, Paul. You know, One of our VIPs, Diane, sent a wonderful message to us about Preborn. She wrote, after hearing your promotion for Preborn my husband paid for five ultrasounds in my name for Mother's Day. The best gift I could imagine. Diane, we share that sentiment. Preborn is a nonprofit on a mission to save the lives of unborn babies. They know what they're up against too, which is the ease of access to what's known as an abortion pill or the marketing efforts of Planned Parenthood backed by federal government dollars. But despite that, Preborn does all they can to save lives day in and day out. And they've saved 350,000 unborn babies to date and they have no signs of slowing down. Your support though, makes all the difference. They entirely rely on you. The pro life community Preborn clinics operate based upon your donations. They welcome in mothers with love and support and give them a free ultrasound to start that process of letting them really know about the incredible and precious life growing inside them. And then it's so easy for that choice to be made for life in 20 years time. Like I said, they've saved 350,000 babies and it is a great gift to put in your name or someone else's name to donate to Preborn. 100% of your donation is tax deductible. To donate securely dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250. Say baby. Five ultrasounds would be $140 and that was what was donated for Mother's Day for our wonderful VIP Diane in her name. Think about that $140. You could save five babies. Or you can go to preborn.com buck to donate. That's preborn.com buck sponsored by Preborn.

[Clay Travis]

Keep up with the biggest political comeback in world history on the Team 47 podcast Clay and Buck highlight Trump replays from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Leon Naifak]

Men if you're ready to reclaim your edge, listen up. I used to be held back by constant bathroom trips with multiple wake ups, my sleep and looking for restrooms whenever I was out. Then I discovered Better Man. After just two months I started experiencing fewer trips to the bathroom, less urge to go, and I even slept through some nights. I feel a noticeable boost in my overall well being, even sexual stamina. It gives me the freedom and confidence to live life on my terms. Betterman is clinically tested and trusted by thousands of men over 25 years ready to take back control. Go to be better now.com to order your supply today. That's be better now.com these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Uses directed. Individual results may vary.

[Paul Morrow]

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency.

[Buck Sexton]

Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir?

[Clay Travis]

No.

[Paul Morrow]

No one was letting it became known as the Iran Contra affair and I'm.

[Leon Naifak]

Not taking any more questions. In just a second, I'm going to ask.

[Paul Morrow]

I'm Leon Naifak co creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today.

[Leon Naifak]

The things that happened were so bizarre.

[Buck Sexton]

And insane, I can't begin to tell you.

[Leon Naifak]

Please do.

[Paul Morrow]

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Leon Naifak]

Closing up shop here. I want to remind you. Well, actually, we'll have one of our listeners remind you. This is a talk back from Freddie and Rochester. HH Play it. You guys are epic. You know what?

[Buck Sexton]

I was allergic to coffee, but I'm gonna get over it and I'm gonna start drinking coffee and deal with the sickness. Just because I celebrate America, I celebrate you guys, and I celebrate Trump.

[Leon Naifak]

He says he's gonna drink some Crockett coffee. You should join him in that one. Although if you're allergic, I don't know, that's a whole other thing. Consult with your doctor first. Crocket coffee. I didn't know. Can you be allergic to coffee?

[Clay Travis]

Crockett coffee. But evidently you can.

[Leon Naifak]

Yeah. Crockettcoffee.com Go sign up. Check it out. The mushroom blend is delicious, by the way. Mushroom coffee, I should say it's a total different kind of coffee. Half the caffeine and normal, but they got fantastic stuff there. And use code book. Get a copy of Clay's American Playbook. Get them while they last. Before our books come out at the end of this year. Let's see. Jj we got a funny one here. Go for it, JJ. Hi, Clay and Beth. This is Kitty from California. I sent my husband to the store one Christmas when I was making candy for butter. Just butter. Didn't care what kind, didn't care what brand. Told him that he came home with the only thing in the entire store that is clearly labeled not butter. As in I can't believe it's not butter. At least it makes a good story.

[Clay Travis]

Just try to be healthy.

[Leon Naifak]

That's a strong move right there, right? To be like, no, I'm not getting your butter. I'm getting you not butter instead of butter. Glad they're still married though. That's good. Made in America means something to us. When you invest 700 billion annually in American companies and the 13 million workers and families they support, you're investing in the success of Main Street. That's money powering growth in manufacturing, tech, energy and innovation. And it starts with private equity backing American ambition. Learn how private equity keeps American businesses [e-mail] paid for by the American Investment Council.

Men, if you're ready to reclaim your edge, listen up. I used to be held back by constant bathroom trips with multiple wake ups during my sleep and looking for restrooms whenever I was out. Then I discovered Better Man. After just two months, I started experiencing fewer trips to the bathroom. I less urge to go and I even slept through some nights. I feel a noticeable boost in my overall well being, even sexual stamina. It gives me the freedom and confidence to live life on my terms. Better man is clinically tested and trusted by thousands of men over 25 years ready to take back control. Go to be better now.com to order your supply today. That's be better now.com these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Use as directed. Individual results may vary.

[Paul Morrow]

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran Contra Affair.

[Buck Sexton]

The things that happened were so bizarre and insane I can't begin to tell you.

[Leon Naifak]

Please do.

[Paul Morrow]

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco Iran Contra on the IHOP iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Leon Naifak]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.