Hour 3 - Behind the Scenes at SCOTUS

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Hour 3 – Behind the Scenes at SCOTUS

Date: April 14, 2026
Host: Clay Travis & Buck Sexton
Guest: Sarah Isger

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Episode Overview

In this lively third hour, Clay and Buck dissect headlines from global affairs and domestic scandal to the inner workings of the U.S. Supreme Court. The episode notably spotlights breaking allegations against Rep. Eric Swalwell, their political fallout, and a deep-dive interview with Supreme Court correspondent Sarah Isger on her new book and the real dynamics of the current bench. The hour balances hard-hitting news with trademark humor and candid banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Iran Negotiations, Oil Prices & Market Calm

(Timestamp: 01:06–05:54)

• Regional Update: Clay opens with a briefing on U.S.–Iran–Pakistan trilateral discussions, the softening of oil prices, and the S&P 500 nearing all-time highs. He interprets these as markers of stability returning to the Gulf.

• Economic Analysis: The cost of crude dropped 5% that day, down to $88/barrel—a significant decrease since the conflict spike, albeit higher than pre-war levels.

  “To be fair, it's up about $20 from before the before the war started...but down pretty substantially from the early days of the war." —Clay Travis (01:56)

• Geopolitical Game Theory: Buck discusses the U.S. (now under Trump again) and Iran entering a test of endurance—economic pressure and the threat of “economic terrorism” in the Strait of Hormuz.

  "If you guys want to turn this into a version of medieval siege warfare, we can do that. And that just turns into who has better preparations...who can outlast the other.” —Buck Sexton (03:29)

• Sanctions and Leverage: Buck highlights the strategic use of U.S. military and sanctions to squeeze the Iranian regime, likening it to a checkmate scenario for Iran's economy and military.

  “Economically and militarily, Clay, it's checkmate on Iran.” —Buck Sexton (05:23)

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2. Eric Swalwell Scandal and Political Fallout

(Timestamp: 05:54–20:07)

• Breaking Allegations: Clay introduces audio from Lana Drews, who accused Swalwell (former California Congressman) of drugging and raping her—now public after a Beverly Hills press conference. Audio reveals explicit, emotional details of her allegation.

  "He raped me and he choked me...I lost consciousness and I thought I died. I did not consent to any sexual activity." —Lana Drews (accuser press conference audio, 08:51)

• Rapid Downfall: Clay observes the speed of Swalwell’s political collapse, linking the scandal to his recent dropping from the governor’s race and resignation from Congress.

• Political Fallout: Senator Reuben Gallego denies rumors he was involved in or present during related video scandals. He distances himself from Swalwell.

  “No, I was not sitting next to him. I was not in the room. I was nowhere. I don't even know where it happened.” —Sen. Gallego (11:08)

• Media and Party Reaction: Clay and Buck criticize the delayed reaction from media and Democrats, drawing parallels to prior delays in confronting politicians’ misdeeds (e.g., Anthony Weiner, Hunter Biden, Joe Biden’s family).

  "All the Democrats care about is power. The Democrat Party cares about one thing and one thing only. That is to be in power." —Buck Sexton (12:24)

• Hypocrisy & ‘Code Red’ Moments: They question why allegations surfaced now—perhaps because Swalwell was a gubernatorial frontrunner—and theorize about internal political maneuvering leading to his exposure.

• Historical Parallels: A caller (Mike in Atlanta) weighs in, citing political ego and power as recurring ingredients in scandal, referencing historic examples (Gary Hart, Michael Avenatti).

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3. Behind the Scenes at the Supreme Court (w/ Sarah Isger)

(Timestamp: 21:00–32:58)

Supreme Court's Current Role & Public Perception

• Misunderstood Institution: Isger explains how nearly every mainstream narrative about the Supreme Court is wrong; it’s not just a “6-3 partisan court.”

  “Basically every narrative we have about the Supreme Court is wrong. This idea that it's a 6-3 partisan court...The correct headline should say, Supreme Court says Only Congress can do Worldwide tariffs. Supreme Court says Only Congress can do Student Loan Debt Forgiveness." —Sarah Isger (21:41)

• Congress's Abdication: The Court is forced to rule on everything because Congress avoids legislating, pushing politics to the judiciary.

Justice Alito Retirement Rumors

• Odds & Intrigue: Clay asks about betting markets predicting Justice Alito’s retirement. Isger says it’s plausible but not certain, mentioning Alito’s relative youth and the tradition of strategic retirements.

  “It's basically 50, 50 at this point…Supreme Court justices tend to retire July 2, right before a midterm election…Alito is actually relatively young for a Supreme Court justice considering retiring." —Sarah Isger (23:37)

• Succession Planning: She discusses informal efforts to assure justices their “legacy” would persist through hand-picked clerks if they retire.

Supreme Court Dynamics and Personalities

• Who Gets Along (and Who Doesn’t): Clay probes rumors that Ketanji Brown Jackson is not well-liked by fellow justices. Isger explains the intra-court dynamics, detailing “institutionalists” vs. “individualists,” and how Jackson’s solo dissents and unconventional style may irk colleagues.

  “Justice Jackson and Justice Gorsuch are very similar in terms of being low institutionalists...She’s just not like a dues paying type of girl. And yeah, I think that can rub your colleagues the wrong way.” —Sarah Isger (25:32)

• Collegiality as Survival: Isger likens the court to “an arranged marriage for life,” requiring personal adaptation.

Life on the Court, Explaining SCOTUS to the Public

• Making Law Accessible: Buck asks Isger to compare explaining the Court on The View vs. to kindergarteners; she recounts her surprisingly successful guest appearance, noting universal frustration with Congress.

  "The one thing that unites Americans is that nobody...approves of Congress. They have, like, a 9% approval rating. And I am dying to meet one of those 9%." —Sarah Isger (28:30)

Big Decisions Looming

• Upcoming Major Cases: Isger details cases pending for the term — e.g., Voting Rights Act/gerrymandering, birthright citizenship, absentee ballot deadlines, immigration (remain in Mexico).

  “There's no question that that Voting Rights Act case...has loomed over this whole term...Louisiana's like, so what are we supposed to do? Have one or have two [majority-minority districts]? Because we get sued and we get found liable either way.” —Sarah Isger (30:17)

• Court’s Proper Role: She repeatedly emphasizes the Supreme Court’s function is simply to interpret Congress’s statutes, but political dysfunction has made the Court the de facto final policy-maker.

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4. Lighthearted Banter—Comfort Clothing and American Eating Tools

(Timestamp: 34:16–38:47)

• Pants Technology (Elastic vs. Buttons/Belt): Buck passionately declares elastic waistbands with drawstrings superior to traditional buttons or belts for pants.

  "The elastic waistband and drawstring for pants is the superior technology. All other versions...Torture device." —Buck Sexton (34:18)

• Zipper Dangers: Clay references the hazards of zippers with a movie callback and sides with Buck in preferring comfort over tradition.

• Eating Utensils Debate: Clay advocates for using forks over chopsticks at Asian eateries, regarding it as a plainly superior tool.

  "The fork is a better method to get food to your mouth than chopsticks or any other designed implement." —Clay Travis (38:14)

• Restaurant Shoe Policy: Buck riffs on the cultural tradition of removing shoes, suggesting it should be normalized in all restaurants for hygiene.

• Flip Flops for Life: Clay closes the segment touting his flip-flop lifestyle.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Iran strategy:
  “If you guys want to turn this into a version of medieval siege warfare, we can do that.” —Buck Sexton (03:29)

• On Eric Swalwell’s collapse:
  “Now the fallout. Swalwell is done. He may well face criminal charges again...I don't know that we've ever seen a political collapse happen this quickly.” —Clay Travis (09:51, 15:38)

• On Supreme Court:
  “Congress doesn't legislate anymore. The president is doing everything by executive power...So the Supreme Court is forced to play this role...But we're letting Congress off the hook and we're blaming the court.” —Sarah Isger (21:54)

• On chopsticks vs. forks:
  "The fork is a better method to get food to your mouth than chopsticks or any other designed implement." —Clay Travis (38:14)

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Important Timestamps

• Global affairs, oil markets, Iran update: 01:06–05:54
• Swalwell allegations, political reaction: 05:54–20:07
  • Lana Drews’ press conference audio: 08:51
  • Sen. Gallego’s denial: 11:08
• Interview with Sarah Isger (Supreme Court deep dive): 21:00–32:58
  • Congress’s failure, Supreme Court as sole policy arbiter: 21:41
  • Alito retirement speculation: 23:37
  • Court personalities & internal dynamics: 25:32
  • The View appearance & explaining SCOTUS: 28:30
  • Significant cases, Voting Rights Act: 30:17
• Elastic pants, forks vs. chopsticks banter: 34:16–38:47

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Tone & Style

The episode delivers rapid, informed commentary blending serious analysis with casual, relatable humor—typical of Clay & Buck. The language is conversational, sharp, and often irreverent, inviting listeners to both consider pressing issues and enjoy lighter cultural debates.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

You’ll come away understanding the dramatic shifts in global politics, the cascade of consequences from headline-grabbing scandals, and why the Supreme Court is both misunderstood and more crucial than ever—plus, you may just rethink your pants and what utensil you reach for at dinner.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

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[Clay Travis]

back in hour number three. Clay Travis Buck Sexton show we have got a bunch of different news stories that we are tracking for all of you. Reports that there may be yet another round of discussions in Pakistan between Iran and the United States as we are talking with all of you. S&P 500 up substantially only about 1/2 of a percent away. About 38 points in the S&P 500 from an all time record high for stocks. The price of gas continuing to decline as I am looking at it right now. Crude oil futures down to $88 a barrel in real time down about 5% today. The expectation of the blockade having a negative impact seems to have largely vanished. There are possible, like I just said, additional talks coming and that is the latest as it pertains to Iran. Buck, anything that you would add on the Iran news Again, Stock market near record high price of oil and gas down substantially today. Now to be fair it's up about $20 ish from before the before the war started in Iran. I think oil and gas prices 66 $67 a barrel ish and they are at 88 right now but down pretty substantially from the early days of the war. Reason why I mentioned markets in this respect is there seems to be a sense that things are calming down fairly substantially in the Gulf region and and if you're out there and you're thinking, okay, what does that mean for oil and gas prices? To me, Clay, they got up to about 120 bucks, and now they're back down to 88. So they have fallen pretty precipitously from their peak during the course of, of this, of this war.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes. I think that we are seeing the Trump administration tallying what the Iranians have in terms of leverage and weaknesses and what we have, or what Trump has on his side bring to bear the full force and weight of the United States military and saying, if you guys want to turn this into a version of medieval siege warfare, we can do that. And that just turns into who has more, who has better preparations, who has more stuff, who can outlast the other. Right. So that's where we are. I think it's, it's a bit of a waiting game with the pressures that are there. The things that could shake it up dramatically would be if we went in to take the uranium, that would be a big, that would be a big gamble. But that's something that may happen. Or if the Iranians decided, you know what, we're just going to blow up a tanker and see what happens, I don't see them doing that because it would cause such problems for them, too. But when someone is cornered, you never know what they're willing to do. And if we really have our foot on the jugular of the malacracy, they may react in a way that is hard to. Hard to foresee and could be very drastic. So that's how I see it. I mean, J.D. vance is saying, you see this here? This is cut 13. He's talking about economic terrorism that Iran has engaged in. And he's like, we can play this game. Play 13.

[Buck Sexton (additional commentary)]

Here's the very interesting thing about all this, is that the only thing the Iranians have been able to do, they haven't, of course, beaten us militarily. They've had their military been decimated. They haven't been able to prosecute the case when it comes to weapons of war. What they have done is engage in this act of economic terrorism against the entire world. They basically threatened any ship that's moving through the Straits of Hormuz. Well, as the President of the United States showed, two can play at that game. And if the Iranians are going to try to engage in economic terrorism, we're going to abide by a simple principle that no Iranian ships are getting out either.

[Buck Sexton]

This is what I mean by who can wait this out more? Who can handle the pressure better. Now, I think that the thing that the Iranians have going for them or the regime has going forward is they view this as existential and they're used to a lot of suffering and inflicting a lot of suffering as well as taking it themselves. We have a democracy, we have a republic. I know, but we have democratic elections and therefore we have to think about the political pressures. But economically and militarily, Clay, it's checkmate on Iran.

[Clay Travis]

It is. And for those of you out there, and I get it because I filled up my car over the weekend and price of oil and gas is up to around on average. I always like to have fun with this. On average about $4 a gallon and the overall price increases have effectively stopped. And again, I think you're gonna start to see a dial back pretty significantly between now and Memorial Day when prices are likely to go up again. It's just me analyzing the larger marketplace. Cause a lot more people go on the road, they switch out the type of oil and gas that is primarily sold. So if you're out there and you are using the price of oil and gas as a proxy for how the economy is going to Tom, then I think you're going to start to see those prices come back down based on what we are, what we are seeing in the larger marketplace. Okay, so again, stock market near record highs, about 1/2 of a percent off all time highs. If you had just not paid attention at all the stock prices and not paid attention at all to what's going on with Iran and just done nothing at all different, you would be in a good shape. And in the. We will see what exactly ends up happening going forward. But definitely the trend lines are positive. I did want to play this buck. Do we know producer Ali? Let me know. Is the audio good enough now to play of the accuser at the press conference? We played this earlier and some of you had a little bit of difficulty of hearing it. I don't know what happened. It was somewhat garbled. Let's see if that's true or not. This is cut 33. This is the accuser, Lana Drews, of Eric Swalwell. Pause for a sec before we play that. If you are just getting in your car. There is a new accuser of Eric Swalwell and she has gone public. She just had a press conference in Beverly Hills. She alleges that he drugged and raped her. This is a new allegation. Helps to explain why Eric Swalwell not only has dropped out of the governor's Race, as we discussed yesterday with Steve Hilton, but also why he has decided to give up his congressional seat. Listen to that.

[Narrator/Announcer]

My delay in taking action against Eric was driven by fear, not doubt, fear of his political power, his background as an attorney, and his family law enforcement ties.

[Clay Travis]

All right, so that was part of it. Here is a little bit longer version. This is her saying, I was drugged and raped in his hotel room. Cut 32.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I had contact with Eric Swalwell on three separate occasions. After meeting him socially, he offered me connections to further my software company. And I also had an interest in local politics. He invited me to two public events. I knew he was married at the time and that his wife was pregnant. He was my friend. On the third occasion, I believe he drugged my drink. I only had one glass of wine. We were supposed to go to a political event and he said he needed to get paperwork from his hotel room. When I arrived at his hotel room, I was already incapacitated and I couldn't move my arms or my body. He raped me and he choked me. And while he was choking me, I lost consciousness and I thought I died. I did not consent to any sexual activity.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, Buck, now the fallout. Swalwell is done. He may well face criminal charges again. That is a new accuser. Different than what the San Francisco Chronicle reported and different than what CNN had previously reported. There is a video that is circulating of Eric Swalwell, what appears to be making out with hooker. With a hooker in it. Looks like a hotel room of some sort. And Senator Reuben Gallego from Arizona, who was best buds with Eric Swalwell and just endorsed him as recently as a couple of weeks ago to be the next governor of California, now says that he had heard rumors, but he's been misled. There are people alleging that Swalwell is actually accompanied by Gallego in some of these videos, including the one that has now gone viral. Well, Gallego was asked about this and Greg, producer, Greg pulled this. He says he was not in the same room. It's not, not, not, not an accusation you want to be responding to. Buck says he was not in the same room as Swalwell making out with hookers. This is cut 36.

[Sarah Isger]

Is that you sitting next to him?

[Buck Sexton]

This example of the lies? No, I was not sitting next to him. I was not in the room. I was nowhere. I don't even know where it happened.

[Buck Sexton (additional commentary)]

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

[Buck Sexton]

Chris, La Savita and a bunch of other right wing political operatives are pushing this narrative that somehow was in that Room with Eric Swell. And that is an absolute lie.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, so Buck, I think one of these conversations that is going to spread rapidly is a lot of people are now what we talked about before, that journalists are okay doing propaganda until it starts to humiliate them, until it starts to look bad for them to be the propagandists. In the same way that everybody turned on Joe Biden almost immediately and said, oh, well, you know, it turns out he was no. After the debate. I do wonder whether there's a little bit of running for cover now starting to happen on Capitol Hill because as we've discussed, Swalwell's behavior was not a very well kept secret. And a lot of people were endorsing and encouraging others to support him. And now you're starting to see the heat get shifted from Swalwell to sort of the, you know, the, the downrange aspects of how did you allow this guy to stay in power and how did you protect him?

[Buck Sexton]

All the Democrats care about is power. The Democrat Party cares about one thing and one thing only. That is to be in power. There is no ethical constraint. There is nothing that they view as more important than that. And you see this from the fact that people were even comfortable effectively coming forward to say, oh, I've known that Swalwell has been doing bad things. Not, not as bad as the recent stuff necessarily, but that he was a, what's the kind of a lascivious.

[Clay Travis]

You're breaking out a lot of good vocabulary here today.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you. You know that he was, what's, what's the word that people will use for like an old man? A lecherous. There we go. That's another good one that he was got like a lecherous gross member of Congress. They, they were fine to come out and say, yeah, we all knew this, but you know, we needed him and he was really good on being. I'll notice something else about this. Notice how some of the people who are the most vocally anti Trump, Avenatti Swalwell, you see these people who are held up as heroes and there are other names that I'm sure you're shouting out right now, held up as heroes for their anti Trumpness. And then it comes out that they're degenerate scumbags and in no position to be calling out anybody for the, the behavior that they are so offended by. Democrats are perfectly fine with this. They're fine with elevating, oh, Anthony Weiner, by the way, huge attack dog for the Democrats against any Republican. That was his job to go on MSNBC and be kind of smug and snarky and attack, attack, attack. Could you imagine this guy? You're sending photos of your, of your genitalia to strangers on the Internet and you think you should be lecturing Republicans on how bad they are on tv. But sure enough, you see this over and over again with these Democrats where they get. Absolutely. But by the way, Joe Biden, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, the whole thing. These people are attacking Republicans all the time. You're Hunter Biden. You think you're in a position to attack anyone for anything? Or Joe Biden for that matter.

[Clay Travis]

I agree with that. How about Swalwell was one of the foremost accusers on the Epstein files.

[Buck Sexton]

Like and of Kavanaugh.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, but I mean, if you were engaged in behavior like, of like this, as, as he has been alleged to be involved in, are you going to be the guy running around saying, can you believe Jeffrey Epstein was trading on relationships and being involved with lots of women? And I just. It is to your point, Buck. Either he is a. He's got a mental illness of a incredibly high level, or in his mind he was. He had convinced himself that all of these acts were consensual and he was just a paragon of virtue, at least in his relationships with women. Even though obviously he's married, he's got multiple kids. And I just. This story is, is really kind of staggering. I don't know that we've ever seen a political collapse happen this quickly. And again, we've talked about it. Democrats to me, at some point basically ordered the code red on this guy and he ran for president. Nobody came after him.

[Caller Mike]

Right.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, usually when you run for president, if there's dirty laundry. Now maybe he was just such a far down the list of presidential candidates that nobody took him seriously. And maybe it's just that he was now the favorite in California. And that explains the code Red suddenly happening. Guy's been in Congress for a long time to suddenly have all of this happen.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures welcome back

[Buck Sexton]

into Clay and Buck. Mike in Atlanta wants to weigh in on our conversation. What's going on Mike?

[Caller Mike]

Hey guys, how you doing?

[Buck Sexton]

Great man, how are you?

[Caller Mike]

Good. Just wanted to just comment about the Swalwell situation. I think there is just an epidemic sometimes with some of these people in Congress that think that they can walk on water, that they get drunk on their own sort of power and they think they can do anything. If you go back in time and I know you guys are a little bit younger but you remember Gary Hart basically destroyed his whole campaign for president because he want he was taunting the media and they found that he was sleeping with Adonir Rice. And, you know, this is not necessarily a democratic thing. It's both parties. But when you look at people like Swalwell, he was so in love with himself, he. He could walk on water. And it's like people like Michael Avenatti, they just do things that they know they can get away with because either somebody's shielding them or they can do whatever they want to do. But then all of a sudden, time comes in and they have to sacrifice themselves.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you for the call. I just think the timing on this remains super fascinating to me. He's six weeks away from being as one of the two finalists for governor, and he already ran for president. He's been in congress a long time. Nobody, I mean, pretend he didn't run for governor. Would anybody have come forward with any of these allegations? Could he have served in Congress for the rest of his life? Is it just that he was reaching for a higher office and finally Democrats decided they had to take him out?

[Buck Sexton]

I.

[Clay Travis]

The whole story is very fascinating.

[Buck Sexton]

So, my friends, we are going to be having a discussion.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. We're joined by Sarah Isger, host of the advisory opinions podcast, editor of SCOTUS blog plays excited, author of the new book Last branch Standing, a potentially surprising occasionally witty journey inside today's Supreme Court. She is in our New York studio. Sarah, great to have you on the program.

[Sarah Isger]

Thanks for having me here, guys.

[Buck Sexton]

Um, let's just get to if I could this court. What is so interesting about it to you right now? Why'd you write the book? Tell us some things about the Supreme Court. You write for SCOTUS blog. That's where everyone goes to get their crib notes about what's happening.

[Sarah Isger]

That's exactly right. We do live blogs for the oral arguments for the opinion handdowns. And I wrote the book because basically every narrative we have about the Supreme Court is wrong. This idea that it's a 6, 3 partisan court, the idea that the court is, you know, the one that's left to decide all of our most important issues, I mean, let's just start with that one for a second. We are at the end of a hundred year failed experiment from the progressive era where like, let's not have Congress do anything because those, you know, dumb, dumb representatives and the voters who put them there can't be trusted. We should instead have experts decide everything. Fast forward. Congress doesn't legislate anymore. The president is doing everything by executive power, regardless of which party they belong to. And so the Supreme Court is forced to play this role, you know, deciding what Congress meant by some old statute that the president cites. And instead of the headline saying, you know, supreme Court strikes down Trump's tariffs or Supreme Court strikes down Biden's Student Loan Debt forgiveness, the correct headline should say, supreme Court says Only Congress can do Worldwide tariffs. Supreme Court says Only Congress can do Student Loan Debt Forgiveness. But we're letting Congress off the hook and we're blaming the court.

[Clay Travis]

Sarah, I got a bunch. I love this. The Supreme Court behind the scenes, everything else. Let me start with this one because I actually read the New York Times is now covering it, but the poly market says right now that Justice Alito is favored to step down this year, which would mean that we would have a Supreme Court vacancy sometimes at sometime after this term ends in June. Do you buy it? Do you think it is likely? Do you think that President Trump will get an appointment? How would you read the tea Leaves behind the scenes right now?

[Sarah Isger]

So, I mean, it's, it's basically 50, 50 at this point. The big thing that we have to go on is one, Supreme Court justices tend to retire July 2, right before a midterm election if they're sort of of that age. On the other hand, Samuel Alito is actually relatively young for a Supreme Court justice who's considering retiring. He's got a book coming out in October. You know, books sell better if you're an active Supreme Court justice. So I don't know. I can argue it either way. What's fun is to look at who Trump would potentially appoint and whether they might be trying behind the scenes to make sure Justice Alito knows that if he retires, they will appoint, for instance, one of his former clerks, like 5th Circuit Judge Andy Oldham to Take his spot. So, you know, don't worry, your honor, if you leave, your legacy will continue because we're going to pick someone from your clerk family. And, and in fact, three of the current justices are replaced their bosses. The chief replaced the old chief, Justice Kavanaugh replaced Justice Kennedy, and Justice Jackson replaced Justice Breyer. So that would be kind of in line with what we've seen recently.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Okay.

[Clay Travis]

Drama. You were talking about the Supreme Court relationships. Does it buy. Do you buy into the fact that Katanji Brown Jackson is the least liked justice by her colleagues on the Supreme Court right now? And the reason why I would ask is you've seen Kagan really kind of take aim at her. Amy Coney Barrett, that's on the left. Amy Coney Barrett is, seems very, very nice. She seems like a mom in a pickup line very much of the time. And she has, I don't know, 15 kids or whatever the heck she has. So she's used to putting up with frustrations, I would imagine, as a mom. She just took a two by four to Katanji Brown Jackson recently and her opin. What's going on there? What do you think about the interpersonal dynamics?

[Sarah Isger]

Yeah, I have little mini biographies of each of the justices in the book, what they like to binge watch, what shows they're into right now, Justice Kagan's poker game. And, you know, a way to think about the justices, there's no question is ideology. Right. Some justices are conservative, some are liberal. They're doing sort of different projects along that, you know, spectrum. But it doesn't really help you understand why, for instance, Justice Kavanaugh was more likely to agree with every other justice on the court except Jackson, other than Justice Gorsuch. Right. They're the same amount of conservatives. So why are they only together 50% of the time last term? And the answer, and don't worry, I'm getting to the Justice Jackson part is there's this other, you know, spectrum to think about the justices on. I like to think of it as institutionalism. And you know, Justice Gorsuch is like, it's just me. All I do is tell you what I think of the case. That's my only job here. He writes a lot of concurrences because of that. Like, ah, here's my take. Justice Kavanaugh thinks of this as more of a middle school group project. We're all in this together. We speak with a single voice when possible. It's not about me. Justice Jackson and Justice Gorsuch are very similar. In terms of being low institutionalists who see that, like, this is about what they think about the case, they don't have to think that much about what previous courts thought about precedent, for instance. So when Justice Jackson joins the court, she does a lot of things that are unusual. Like, I forget exactly how many years it took for the Chief justice, for instance, to write a solo dissent. About a decade. She wrote three her first year on the court. She's just not like a dues paying type of girl. And, yeah, I think that can rub your colleagues the wrong way. But there's only nine of them. They take collegiality very seriously. As Justice Barrett has said, it's kind of like an arranged marriage for life. Um, and so I, you know, she talks. Justice Jackson talks the most adorable argument. She's writing these solo dissents. She's, you know, in these 8:1 cases, like in the conversion therapy case, you know, Kagan and Sotomayor are with the conservatives. Nope. Jackson's off on her own. Yeah, I think that can tweak people.

[Buck Sexton]

Speaking to Sarah. Sarah Isger. And she has a book out, which you should all check out. Last Branch Standing, a potentially surprising, occasionally witty journey into just last Branch standing. Go find that on Amazon. Go buy it. You can get the rest of the title when you buy the book. So I'm glad you and Clay are having fun with all the legal nerd stuff. Nerding it out on the legal stuff. Clay wants to talk to you about previous Supreme Courts. You guys can do a whole podcast on that. I have to ask you something, which is, I heard you were on the View today. What was that like? And what is the similarity between explaining the Supreme Court and being on the View to explaining the Supreme Court to a kindergarten class?

[Sarah Isger]

So I will just tell you guys, I was so nervous about it. I've never been on the View before, obviously. You know, I worked in the first Trump administration. I worked in, you know, on a gazillion Republican campaigns during my career. And I was just like, oh, this could go really, really poorly. But I have to say, I actually had a great time because I like introducing people to the Supreme Court. And the audience was, like, nodding along and they were like, oh, yeah, Congress isn't doing its job. It's like, the one thing that unites Americans is that nobody, like, approves of Congress. They have, like, a 9% approval rating. And I am dying to meet one of those 9%. If, you know any, send them my way. So it's fun to explain to people that like, hey, you're being told this lie about the Supreme Court. Let me explain to you why that's not true and like who you should blame. And we all have control over that because Congress is the most representative branch. We get to vote on these guys every two years. So if they're not doing their job, but blame them, vote them out. The Supreme Court is supposed to be counter majoritarian. They're supposed to be a lagging indicator of our politics. They're actually doing their job.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, so we mentioned what the possibility might be going forward in terms of is Alito going to step down? Katanji, Brown, Jackson? We have a massive number, I would say, of significant cases still to be resolved between now and the end of the year. Birthright citizenship, the Voting Rights act in particular, gerrymandering, whether it is allowed on a racial basis. What do you think in terms of super significant decisions that we will see? Will anything upset the proverbial apple cart in terms of between now and when the final opinions are released near the end of June?

[Sarah Isger]

There's no question that that Voting Rights act case that you're talking about just has loomed over this whole term. You know, we've had tariffs and we've had birthright sent citizenship. But for the justices themselves, the Voting Rights act has kind of plagued them for years at this point. They keep having these cases come back. In this case, it's sort of. Funny isn't the right word. It's not like haha funny, but Louisiana draws their district and they get sued because they only have one majority minority district. So they're like fine, so they draw a second majority minority district. Then they get sued by white voters who are like you racially gerrymandered that second district. And Louisiana's like, so what are we supposed to do? Have one or have two? Because we get sued and we get found liable either way. So that's what the Supreme Court is having to decide. I personally am into sort of the some of the other statutory cases, if you will. So can Mississippi receive ballots five days after election day or did Congress say no to that because they said there's an election day as they send the oral argument. Do you have to consummate the election on election day? That was. People giggled in the courtroom, if you're curious.

[Clay Travis]

That is very much of a nerdy law joke that I would imagine would be very appealing to your average lawyer.

[Sarah Isger]

Consummate. There's this other case about the remain in Mexico policy and the question of whether Congress allows the administration to prevent someone from getting to the southern border to ask for asylum. But to put this in bigger context, all the court is being asked to do in those cases is to say what Congress said in their statute. So what's supposed to happen in our system, if it were functioning correctly, based on the Constitution, after the Supreme Court says one way or the other, it shouldn't actually matter because Congress the next day could amend their laws to fix it to whichever way they wanted it to say or what the people wanted it to be. But none of us believe that Congress will actually do that. So the Supreme Court becomes the last word, Then we blame the Supreme Court, and then the Supreme Court becomes really important. It becomes the focus of our politics, but it's not responsive to us. It's supposed to be against these majorities and as I said, like, a lagging indicator of our politics. And so we've really got to put that pressure back on Congress and stop saying like, well, the Supreme Court said so toss our hands up. Nothing we can do, like, no, no, no, we. Whether Mississippi can accept ballots is not a constitutional question. It's just up to Congress. That's it.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, go get the book. Last branch standing. Sarah, great to have you on the program. Thanks for being here with us.

[Sarah Isger]

Thank you guys for having me. Really appreciate it.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Clay and Buck on the I Heart app.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. So Clay wanted me to just jump into this because I. I just shared this. Sometimes I just have to let nuggets of wisdom fly on X. Formerly Twitter. And one is I just had to say to everybody, we all need to just accept this because I'm right and this is obvious, and that is that the elastic waistband and drawstring for pants is the superior technology. All other versions of keeping belts. My gosh. Torture device. Preposterous. Buttons with a fly. Unacceptable. You want drawstring and elastic waistband. Formal, casual. I don't care what it is. That is what all pants should be. Clay, the people are listening because wisdom has been solved.

[Clay Travis]

I don't think this is an awful take from you and I. I just go back to remember there's something about Mary where the guy's going to prom and he catches his genital in the.

[Buck Sexton]

Wow, you just took us to a quite a place play. Yes.

[Clay Travis]

Well, I'm just saying the zipper. The zipper is very dangerous on the, The, The.

[Buck Sexton]

The genital risk every time you zip it up. I mean, especially you're not paying attention. You've had a few drinks, guys go slow on the zip.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. So.

[Caller Mike]

And.

[Clay Travis]

And I'm not a fan a lot of times of the button, because the button can be a mess. I'm very anti belt, so. And I'm. Belts are horrible.

[Buck Sexton]

And people get you if you wear like a braided belt or a stretch belt. Look, that looks so informal. So I have to wear a piece of leather with no stretch in it whatsoever. I'm sorry. Not all of us have like an eight pack. When you sit down, you tend to have a little bunching. A little bunching around the middle. Just a little bit. Let's be honest, everyone. And the draw. Yes.

[Clay Travis]

I think you're. I think you're like, if it were able to be designed. Now here is the only flaw. When I saw this take, I was thinking through it. The only flaw of the drawstring is occasionally the string comes all the way out. You know what I'm talking about? Like, if you draw the string and you try to then, like, you gotta win, you know, kind of get it back. That's a.

[Buck Sexton]

That's right. But that's why. Clay, look, this is not nom. There are rules. I would be Willing to, to concede. If we could just all agree we want, we want elastic in the waistband with a button at a minimum. You got to have the elastic because then you have the expand and contract reality of sitting and moving around. It's much better. The drawstring is really just to sort of cinch it a little bit tighter. Yeah, the drawstring, I'm less, it's really elastic waistband. But this clay. I have wool suits in my closet which I try to, I guess I'll be wearing one on Thursday when we're doing an event. I try to avoid wearing them. They are not comfortable. Ok? I don't care what tailor I go to. I don't care what size or anything else. They are not comfortable. My elastic waistband drawstring pants are superior and every. Why do we guys, why do we have to live a lie? Why do we have to pretend that we don't know that I'm right?

[Clay Travis]

I will say this. I am traveling as soon as the show is over Tomorrow I'm in D.C. and then you and I are doing a charity event at Mar a Lago raising money, hopefully. Very positive. I'm all I was already thinking, now I have to travel with a suit. And I was already thinking this is just awful. I, I so I am very anti suit in general. I will say this. Do you sign on to my take? And by the way, all the talk backs we'll have some fun with this tomorrow. Do you sign on to my take that the fork is infinitely superior to the to the chopsticks. And I don't understand why in America when you go to a Japanese restaurant or whatever the heck it is, they don't just go fork. It's better, it's a better eating device than the chopstick.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, it's I think because people view it as a celebration of a foreign culture to try to chopstick. Well, you know, we're better than other countries at like everything pretty much.

[Clay Travis]

So I get it. But you're, if you're eating Japanese food, you're saying, hey, I like Asian food. Delicacy, whatever. Like you like the food. The fork is a better method to get food to your mouth than chopsticks or any other designed implement.

[Buck Sexton]

Let me think about mankind. It shouldn't just be Japanese restaurants where we take off our shoes when we go inside. Your shoes are filthy. Why should you sit there with your shoes on? We should all be able to go shoeless in the restaurant.

[Clay Travis]

This is why I wear flip flops. I'm always comfortable.

[Buck Sexton]

That is true he wears flip flops all the time. It is a reality. As much as I can, let me tell you. Go look for. Go look for elastic waistband pants. You can get some that'll go with a sport jacket, trust me.