Hour 3 - David Rutherford

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Hour 3 with David Rutherford (August 27, 2025, iHeartPodcasts)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the aftermath and discussion of the tragic mass shooting at the Annunciation Church in Minneapolis. Hosts Clay Travis and Buck Sexton are joined by David Rutherford—a former Navy SEAL, CIA contractor, and host on their podcast network—to examine the security failures, the shooter’s background, responses to such threats, and deeper issues surrounding mental health, specifically in relation to gender identity and youth medication. The hosts also take questions from listeners, often focusing on policy, security recommendations, and the contentious debate around transgender youth medical care.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Reaction to the Minneapolis Shooting

• Summary: The hosts open with late-breaking details of the church shooting, identifying the perpetrator as a "trans terrorist" and discussing the tragic loss of young lives and those still in critical condition.
• Quote:
  "This is absolutely preventable. The problem is it requires a focused and concerted effort by organizations that are soft targets like churches, like schools."
  —David Rutherford (03:12)

2. Security Recommendations for Soft Targets

• David Rutherford's Tactical Assessment:
  • Soft targets need layered security: either fortify with expensive infrastructure, arm staff (requiring significant training), or hire trained armed security.
  • Rutherford shares a personal anecdote about his children’s school choosing the armed-guard route, which comforted many parents.
  • Repeated argument: Shooters purposely target places, like schools and churches, that lack obvious defenses ("soft targets").
• Quotes:
  "Yeah, they're picking soft targets for a reason. ... What should be the most fundamental thing that we protect above all else in this world, and that's our children."
  —David Rutherford (05:45)
  "Isn't it just a no-brainer in all 50 states that we should have armed security at every school?"
  —Buck Sexton (05:10)

3. Medical Realities of Gunshot Trauma

• Combat Medic’s Perspective:
  • Rutherford draws on his experience as a combat medic to explain trauma response, highlighting the dangers of catastrophic injuries—especially in children—and the importance of quick, skilled intervention.
  • Emphasizes that even "stable" patients face lingering risks of complications.
• Quotes:
  "You have first responders who show up who don't have any medical training. ... The challenge is you have to stop the bleeding, focus on airway, and triage who has the worst injuries."
  —David Rutherford (08:08)
  "You're only okay when you're okay, right? ... The nature of gunshot injuries is really difficult to know until you're all the way through recovery."
  —David Rutherford (10:44)

4. The Shooter’s Background and the Role of Mental Health

• Discussion Points:
  • Noted similarity to the Nashville Covenant shooting: both shooters identified as transgender, scouted their targets, and had connections to the communities they attacked.
  • The shooter in Minneapolis changed gender identification as a minor, raising questions about the impact of early medical and psychological interventions.
  • Hosts express concern over untreated or mishandled mental health issues, especially with youth and "affirmation" medical care.
• Quotes:
  "You don't reinforce the health condition and the mental illness."
  —Buck Sexton (12:19)
  "Many, many, many, many children, thousands ... are being medicated at early ages, much less the hormone blockers and the stuff that's going on."
  —David Rutherford (12:45)

5. Societal Response: Mental Health, Medical Ethics, and Accountability

• Debate on Transgender Medicine and Surgical Procedures:
  • Hosts and callers argue against gender-affirming surgeries for minors, describing it as medical malpractice or "barbaric."
  • Call for lawsuits against providers and insurance companies who enable these procedures.
  • Question the logic of classifying such surgeries as "necessary medical care" covered by insurance.
• Notable Callers and Comments:
  • Listener from Missouri describes his daughter as an armed, specially-trained teacher—a model of school safety.
  • Another caller questions the logic: if gender isn't tied to anatomy, why change the anatomy at all?
  • Hosts recall previous global outrage over female genital mutilation, contrasting it to current acceptance of gender-related surgeries on minors.
• Quotes:
  "Doctors doing trans surgeries ... on minors should be bankrupted. ... The plaintiff lawyers should be ... suing so that hospitals and doctors understand—there are consequences."
  —Buck Sexton (23:21)
  "How does surgically altering [secondary characteristics] affirm gender? If it's not about physical structures, why must they be changed?"
  —Caller Joe, Florida (44:10)
  "It's not kind to tell people who have a mental illness that their mental illness is real."
  —Clay Travis (33:03)

6. Armed Civilians and Good Guys with Guns

• Perspective on Armed Response:
  • Recalls specific mass shootings that were interrupted by armed civilians.
  • Argues strong presence of armed security or trained individuals deters attacks and minimizes casualties.
• Quotes:
  "Those of us who know, know. ... The demo communists, they think disarming us all makes us safer."
  —Buck Sexton (46:51)

7. Cultural and Political Commentary

• Underlying Themes:
  • Critique of the political left for sidestepping uncomfortable facts about mass shooters' identities and broader mental health crises.
  • The concept of "toxic empathy"—where being too accommodating to mental illness leads to tragic outcomes for both individuals and society.
• Quotes:
  "This is a good example of toxic empathy, where we are being taken advantage of by trying to be kind. It actually is profoundly unkind."
  —Buck Sexton (35:48)
  "You have to be willing to take some slings and arrows … but I think we're right about something that is super significant and impacting so many different parts of our culture."
  —Clay Travis (35:48)

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Preventing Attacks:
  "Yeah, that's the way you respond to the possibility of these types of things, because they're going to keep happening." —David Rutherford (03:12)

• Soft Targets:
  "They're picking soft targets for a reason ..." —David Rutherford (05:45)

• Medical Realities:
  "You're only okay when you're okay, right?" —David Rutherford (10:45)

• Affirmation Therapy:
  "Aren't we just creating in conjunction with all of these drugs … a recipe for disaster after disaster?" —Buck Sexton (12:19)

• Manifesto Analysis:
  "What's interesting is ... he was very complimentary to his parents. ... But the key ... I wouldn't recommend any of you to read my journals … be warned." —David Rutherford (12:45)

• Toxic Empathy:
  "It's not kind to tell people who have a mental illness that their mental illness is real." —Clay Travis (33:03)

• Armed Security Example:
  "[In the Philippines] you can’t even walk into a McDonald's ... without an armed guard. ... We need higher security standards." —Listener email (27:59)

• Listener Call - Armed Teacher:
  "My daughter is an armed teacher at school ... trained every three or four months ... I'm proud of her, yet afraid." —Listener email (46:20)

• Caller Joe’s Question:
  "If secondary sexual characteristics … do not define gender, then how does surgically altering them affirm gender?" —Caller Joe, FL (44:10)

• Female Circumcision Outcry Parallel:
  "Do you remember the outcry about female circumcision … as horrific genital mutilation … How is that now acceptable on children?" —Caller Joe, FL (44:28)

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Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Intro and Shooting Context: [01:58–03:12]
• Armed Security Discussion: [03:12–06:53]
• Combat Medic/Medical Response Analysis: [06:53–10:59]
• Manifesto & Shooter's Background: [10:59–14:54]
• Trans Medicine/Mental Health Critique: [12:15–14:54, 23:21–35:48]
• Listener Questions and Commentary: [27:59–47:38]
• Callers on Gender Surgery Ethics: [44:10–46:20]
• Closing Reflections on Policy & Security: [46:51–47:38]

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Conclusion

The episode offers a detailed, often intense exploration of a tragic, high-profile mass shooting—using it as a launching point for debates on school and church security, the motivations behind mass shootings, and broader cultural trends in mental health and gender ideology. The hosts and guest David Rutherford advocate for increased armed security at vulnerable institutions, challenge prevailing approaches to transgender medical care, and call for transparency and accountability from the medical and legal establishments. Listeners are encouraged to engage in forthright, sometimes uncomfortable but essential national conversations about safety, sanity, and the limits of empathy.

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Transcript

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

All right, third hour of Clay and Buck kicks off now. We are continuing to follow very closely all the latest developments and the breaking news that's coming out about the horrific shooting in Minneapolis at the Annunciation Church. And we know now that it was a trans terrorist. We know that two children were killed, four are in critical condition the hospital, others wounded, but they will be okay. We're joined now by our friend David Rutherford. He's a former Navy SEAL and CIA contractor, a combat veteran and host of the Dave David Rutherford show podcast which is on the Clay and Buck network and is growing every single month since we've had him on as I knew it would, because more and more of you realize that's a show you should be listening to. Dave Rut, as I call him, Rut, Tell me. Let's start with this. You see this? We know it's heartbreaking from a security and tactical perspective. This guy comes and it's a guy. This guy comes in, he's firing off rifle a few minutes there. Do you think that armed security presence at the church is the only thing? I mean, how do you assess this in terms of the security aspects of this?

[David Rutherford]

Buck, thanks once. First of all, thank you to you and Clay for having me on. My heart goes out to the families, to the people who work at the church, and to the police officers, everybody involved in this, people who work at the hospitals and the kids, most especially. This is absolutely preventable. The problem is it requires a focused and concerted effort by organization, organizations that are soft targets like churches, like schools. And I think, you know, yes, if you were to have a armed security guard at the front gate, it would change things. I remember back after the shooting down here in South Florida a few years back, I went into my kid's school and I gave. I laid it out for him, and I said, here's your options. You know, one, you create a fortress so nobody can penetrate the perimeter, which is incredibly expensive. Two, you arm your teachers, your staff, the people who work there. Or three, which requires a tremendous amount of training. Or three, you hired an armed security guard, a former cop, a former military, someone that's got a lot of training, understands, you know, control in the different levels of threat and how to respond. And they chose the third one, put this wonderful guy Aubrey out in front of school, and all the parents felt great because the guy's an armed security guard at the exterior of the school. So, yeah, that's the way you respond to the possibility of these types of things, because they're going to keep happening.

[Buck Sexton]

I agree with everything you just said. We had a caller from Southern California, I believe her name was Katie, a mom who said, hey, my kids go to Catholics school and we've got armed security. My kids have gone both to public school K to 6, and then they go to private school 7 to 12, and we have armed security at all of their schools. Is it a no brainer to you that as we look at all of these situations, the reason schools are often attacked is because they do not have. In fact, we know with the trans shooter, she actually staked out in Nashville, the school, in advance to see what she needed to do to get to those schools and chose a school that did not have security. Isn't it just a no brainer in all 50 states that we should have armed security at every school?

[David Rutherford]

Absolutely, Clay. I mean now where we're at, whether you go to Uvalde, you go to Audrey Hale or you go to Devin Erickson or you go to all these, Dylan Butler, all these shooters that are coming out. Yeah, they're picking soft targets for a reason. I mean, I can't even tell you how many times where we would do an assessment of a target that we were going to go hit or take down or do a snatch. And when we did the assessment after, you know, the, we did a reconnaissance on the, you know, the place we were going to hit and we saw, oh God, there's two dudes there, they've got old AKs, they don't have kit. I mean, it's like, oh, this is incredible. Well, it's the same thing that these demented mentally unstable human beings are looking for. They're looking for soft targets. So what should be the most fundamental thing that we predict above all else in this world and that's our children. So, yeah, 100% we should have armed guards.

[Clay Travis]

Speaking of David Rutherford, host of the David Rutherford show on the Clam Buck Podcast Network. Hope you have all had a chance to listen. If you haven't, please go check it out. You can listen wherever you get your, wherever you get your podcast. The iHeart app is the best place to start. IHeartradio app. And David, you know you're also, I mean, because I know Rudd very well. Rub was a combat medic. So you understand and have seen gunshot wounds in real life and had to deal with them. What can you tell us? I mean, I don't know if you heard Dave, but we played earlier in the show one of a representative from the hospital who was saying we've got four who are in critical and then we've got a number of others who have been treated in the hospital. But they are state. Sorry, how many, Clay? Seven. Seven who are treated but stable in the hospital. So we. Those. The seven that are stable. Right. That's looking good. Those look like kids, are adults. They're going to be okay. The four. The four who are critical is the primary at this point is, is it just they've stopped the bleeding? Is it organ damage and repair that these doctors are working against the clock to do? Like what has to happen here that we can get the best possible news out of this hospital that There are no more fatalities.

[David Rutherford]

I think, you know, the challenge is. And I watched the video that was on YouTube before they pulled it. There's a bunch of people posting it right now. So I went through and he has a vivid breakdown of the weapon systems that he brought into it. You know, he had an AR platform, a shotgun. He had a night what looked like a 9 mil and a.38 that he said he was going to use for his. For his own death, if that. If it came to that. So, I mean, when you look at every one of those calibers, they're all catastrophic injuries. If you hit in obviously any, Any vitals. Yeah, yeah, any vitals. So like femoral, brachial, arteries, anything like that. But you also have, if you have like an open sucking chest wound and, you know, a penetration penetrating trauma to the thoracic cavity, you know, and the challenge is you have first responders who show up who don't have any medical training. So it just being able to contain bleeding out, like direct pressure probably. You know, if cops are first responders, thank God they'll have tourniquets on their kits and then. But you know, the other ones that are difficult are that penetrating trauma to the chest because then all of a sudden you can go into tension pneumo, hemothorax, where that, you know, that your lung collapses from, you know, the thoracic cavity filling with blood. And the problem with those is typically most patients, adults, adult men that I've seen have suffered from those injuries. They can resist. But kids, kids crash fast, especially with these types of catastrophic injuries. So that's the real concern I would have as a combat medic showing up is one absolutely triaging who has the worst injuries. Stopping blood and then really fixating on airway. Right. Making sure they're perfusing oxygen in the best possible way. But yeah, regardless.

[Clay Travis]

But the seven who are stable rut, they're going to be okay. It's those four that we're praying for are still critical. Right.

[David Rutherford]

Maybe they. They could have. They could have. They could, you know, let's say it grew. It grazed their liver or their kidneys or their stomach. You know, post infection from operations is a significant.

[Clay Travis]

Okay. So there's additional. So there's additional concerns. So we got to have prayers up for every single person who's been treated in that hospital. Meaning that no one's. No one's out of the woods totally yet.

[Buck Sexton]

Let me also.

[David Rutherford]

Is like, you're. You're. You're only okay when you're okay, right? Because the nature of gunshot injuries can. Can. Is really difficult to know until you're all the way through and you're through recovery.

[Buck Sexton]

A couple of other details that are coming out. Let me hit you guys with this. It's looking more and more like a Covenant School shooting situation reports that this shooter, that his mom was a former employee at the school. So there was a connection potentially from this trans shooter, as the prior trans shooter also had a connection to the religious school that she shot up. Appears this guy may have also done it. And we've mentioned this before, but I just want to reiterate. Court documents show that when this person was 17 years old, he legally changed his name from male to female and began to identify as a woman. So as a minor, for people out there, as a minor, this individual who went on to shoot up the school was deciding to identify as a different. As a different gender. So this was happening again in youth and person, I think is 22 years old. Now. What should we do? Buck and I both are of the opinion, and I understand we're probably going to get attacked to the high heavens for this, but I think Buck said it well, where if someone has bulimia, you don't tell them they look great and they should continue to not eat.

[Clay Travis]

If you are well, that's anorexia. Bulimia is throwing up. But yeah, similar.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay. Thankfully not an expert in the, in the eating disorder universe, but you don't reinforce the, the health condition and the mental illness when you say, hey, yes, you are an actual girl or you're an actual boy. Aren't we just creating, in conjunction with all of these drugs that we're pumping into people's bodies during this, a recipe for disaster after disaster?

[David Rutherford]

100%, absolutely. I think what we've categorically proven over the last, you know, all the way back to Columbine, is that many, many, many, many children, thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of children are being medicated at early ages. Right. Much less, you know, the hormone blockers and the stuff that's going on with, with that type of madness out there for these young kids. What's interesting is when I read the pages from his manifesto, he was very complimentary to his parents. You didn't do anything wrong. This is just me. You know, he even told his siblings, I'm sorry, what I'm going to do to your life. You know, but the key, you know, is the last piece on that manifesto for me, and it says pps, he does a PS to his sibling. You know, get over the argument with your mom and you. Then he goes to PPS and he goes, I wouldn't recommend any of you to read my journals, comma, unless you really want to, comma, but be warned. So, you know, there is a mental health reality to this individual that, that goes way before 2017. And I'm sure if we, if a psychologist or a forensic psychologist or whoever, criminal psychologist, goes and we look at the profile of these journals and these other manifestos, you see a fundamentally broken human being that no longer is able to concoct a reason for living. And you. And he actually says this in the earlier pages of that I hate how painful life is. I don't find a reason for shooting. And then when you watch the video of him walking around, it is, it's, it's homicidal in nature. Right? There's a underlying concurrent, like there's pleasure that he's going to receive from this final act of his, you know, very problematic and confused life.

[Clay Travis]

David Rutherford. Go, everyone. Check out the David Rutherford podcast. Former Navy Seal and good friend of ours, Dave Rut. Appreciate you being with us, man. We'll talk to you again soon.

[David Rutherford]

Thank you. God bless you, gents.

[Clay Travis]

You too. Look, it wasn't even a year ago that there was a dementia puppet in the White House who had given up when it comes to the AI race and figured, we'll let other people take the lead. Well, thankfully, the Trump administration has taken the stance that the AI race is critical to our future. Trump sees this as a crucial technology for Americans, for businesses in this country, for our defense capabilities, all of it. And he has identified a White House AI and crypto czar, as you know, to be very involved in this race. And there's this period right now we're in, we're developing, AI technology is going to determine the future of America. I'm calling this the Manhattan Project, too, because it's necessary for us to take a lead now in the AI arms race. And this administration is preparing a $2.2 trillion counterstrike against the Chinese advances in this. Look, it's a really important story, and I break it all down for you in a brand new interview. And there are companies that I believe could soar as a result of this as well. This is a new, exciting project I'm a part of. I want you to really please go check this out. Find this interview and all the details online at a new website. We're going to take this off air, so to speak. The website is off air25.com let me repeat this off air25.com it's a deep dive for you to see on what Trump is doing to help us win the AI race, but also the companies that can be affected by this that can make a huge difference when it comes to investments and your portfolio. Off air25.com this is my new project that I have launched. I want you to please go check it out. Buck Sexton for those of you Sometimes you get me confused with the other guy paid for by Paradigm Press.

[Buck Sexton]

You know him as conservative radio hosts.

[Clay Travis]

Now just get to know them as.

[Buck Sexton]

Guys on the Sunday Hang podcast with Clay and Buck. Find it in their podcast feed on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts this Labor Day.

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Start your 7 day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one we live for live streaming now.

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And all your biggest workloads right now with zero commitment. Try OCI for free. Head to oracle.com clay that's oracle.com clay Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes we're endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. GCU believes in equal opportunity and the American Dream starts with purpose. GCU equips you to serve others in ways that promote human flourishing and create a ripple effect of transformation for generations to come. By honoring your career, calling you impact your family, your friends and your community. You can change the world for good by putting others before yourself to glorify God. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, GCU's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal and professional goals. With over 340 academic programs as of September 2024, GCU meets you where you are and provides a path to help you fulfill your dreams. The pursuit to serve others is yours. Let it flourish. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University Private Christian affordable. Visit gcu.edu A lot of people weighing in thanks to David Rutherford, one of our excellent Clay and Buck Podcast Network members and any he was just on.

[Clay Travis]

He was just on the Sean Ryan show for seven hours, by the way, and doing like, you know, huge, huge numbers there. So Rutherford is, you know, he comes into clay and buck world. He's becoming a household name. He's a very talented guy.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. And I would point out whatever type of show you want. We talked to Carol Markowitz earlier who broke the news about who this shooter was in Minneapolis. She and Mary Katherine Ham do a great show together, normally about just being moms. We've got Nicole Sapphire on the maha side. We've got a lot of really good perspectives. Obviously Rutherford on the special ops world. And we used to have Sean Parnell who is now the chief spokesperson of the Pentagon. Anyway, if you haven't checked it out, go dive in and look at the entire podcast network.

[Clay Travis]

We were sad to lose our good friend Sean, but we were like serving your country in the E ring of the Pentagon. We'll allow it, we'll allow it, you know.

[Buck Sexton]

VIP email from Norman. If this person is trans and has had puberty blockers, aren't they under medical care? What role has the doctor had in this? I believe trans is a mental issue, but if doctors are part of the problem, the insane asylum will not be a solution.

[Clay Travis]

Big that's a very good point, by the way, on that doctor's issue. They are part of the problem with this.

[Buck Sexton]

I think that doctors doing trans surgeries, particularly those on minors, should be bankrupted. I, I, this is where to me the plaintiff lawyers out there who are listening, you guys should be, I believe for society's benefit, looking for these young people who had these surgeries before they really knew what in the world was going on. It's one thing for a 12 or 13 year old who doesn't know any better to make a choice, but for an entire medical establishment to affirm that choice to the point where they become sterilized, where their sex organs are sometimes removed, this is crazy. This is barbaric. And I think sometimes this is where the plaintiff lawyers can make society far better by suing so that the hospitals and the doctors understand. Yeah, we can't do this anymore purely for financial reasons. There are consequences. I think that should be happening right now.

[Clay Travis]

Totally agree. We'll take more calls. Talk backs from you on this one. Obviously the biggest story of the day today and we want to continue this discussion talking about defending yourself, obviously something we're all thinking about. And Sabre, if you're looking for non lethal options, is simply the best in class. There's nobody else out there who is as trusted when it comes to pepper launchers. Pepper sprays, pepper gels and a whole range of other home defense products. Like I said, I'm a two way guy. I got a lot of guns here, but I've also got a lot of Sabre products. Now that's in part because I like having force escalation opportunity, meaning I can go non lethal first if the situation calls for it. My wife Carrie, she's not a gun person. She prefers non lethal options. And Saber is the number one pepper spray brand trusted by law enforcement. Carrie's got Saber pepper gel here at home. I've given it to my in laws. Saber is spelled S A B R E. That's S A B R e. Go to saberradio.com that's saberradio.com you'll save 15% there. Or call this number 844-824 safe. 844-824 safe. Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. So Clay, you have some updates for us on this story of the, of the mass shooting just happened this morning in Minneapolis at the Annunciation Church. Two children killed. A trans terrorist shooter has been identified as the perpetrator. And you have more on the background here of that of that demonic attacker. What can you tell us?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, Steven Crowder has been going through and posting all of the manifestos, so to speak, that this, this shooter put out there. And I think this is so important because we've had callers about this. But much like the Covenant School shooting, this person did scouting to confirm that he was going to be able to engage in this attack. And he said back, focus my life. I am so locked into the plan. Went to school this morning, bunch of stupid people there. Performative routines. The teachers have been in the basement having their own training. I'm sure they briefly mentioned safety and active shooter training. I'm also sure they will not be expecting an attack during the first week of school. L M A O this is just chilling. This is why we need armed security at schools. These crazy people are scouting out schools looking at whether teachers are able to respond. And if you are out there and I know you, a lot of you are with kids in schools, grandkids in schools, your teachers, it is such an unbelievable no brainer to have security there. Now to Buck's point earlier, if you go back and listen early in the show, there are some things that even with security guards, it's very hard to stop. If you're standing outside and you've got a gun and you just want to start shooting in the windows of places, it is hard to stop.

[Clay Travis]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

It's hard to stop crazy people from being crazy. But shouldn't we put up as many obstacles as we possibly can to try to stop this from being able to happen at any school? And I think when you look at these stories Buck, they have specifically scouted in advance. These are very planned attacks to try to kill as many people as possible.

[Clay Travis]

We have a VIP email here from Noah. He writes 100% agree with you adding armed guards to all schools. My girlfriend is from the Philippines and a few years ago I went for five weeks. You can't even walk into a McDonald's or similar style fast food joint without an armed guard. Then go to the mall. Each entrance has three to five armed guards with fully automatic assault rifles and one or two with a 12 gauge shotgun. Then metal scanners. We need higher security stands as the Philippines is a third world country. Standards, I think is what he meant there. You don't see any smash and grabs there. The stores, the malls have two to five people to follow you around and get you everything. Food or drinks even at some stores. Look, he's saying, you know, there are other places where security is much more omnipresent than it is here in some cases in America. But at least we're talking about gathering places and places where a lot of people are somewhere. They're a soft target. And clearly this once again we had a trans terrorist who scouted out a location and made sure there was no armed security there and then chose that as the site of attack. Same thing with the Covenant School shooter. So are we. If we're going to try to counteract this, there's only one logical takeaway from it. Which is that armed security makes it harder to pull off this kind of an attack changes the calculation of the attacker and in some cases will either thwart the attack entirely or will mitigate casualties. Which is also really important to the point I was making before Clay. Okay, maybe this individual, this terrorist gets off a number of rounds but instead of four minutes before law enforcement arrives in the scene and he goes and kills himself, maybe it's two minutes, maybe it's 75 seconds. You know these things can be the difference between life and death for individuals on the scene. And we we've had in recent weeks even there was a. Wasn't it the mass stabbing and an armed good guy with a gun in the parking lot stopped the mass stabber.

[Buck Sexton]

Remember? Was it in Missouri? I believe you guys can look it up. But where the guy with his own gun. Somebody went into the food court, if I remember. And it was just a bystander took him out before he could injure a lot of people. I feel like it was in Missouri somewhere. Do you remember that?

[Clay Travis]

There's a very well known clip Clay. I don't remember where in Texas. Some of you will know where right away, but in Texas I believe. I'm pretty sure it was in Texas at a church. A guy came in with a shotgun. A deranged maniac.

[Buck Sexton]

Yep.

[Clay Travis]

Shot someone. And then there was a lifetime concealed carry instructor. I mean, exactly. The guy you want pulling security anywhere he draw, he was able to draw down and put one shot headshot from like 40ft away and stop the threat from killing more people. And it was a remarkable marksmanship. And you know, that happens. We have proof that this happens.

[Buck Sexton]

Let me go podcast listener RR asks a really good question that, that I think is worth examining.

[Clay Travis]

Rr.

[David Rutherford]

Clay and Buck, I agree with the gentleman's comments from South Carolina about the doctors, but you need to go one step further. Who is paying the doctors? Health care state, whoever shut that down first, go after them. No doctor is going to be doing this for free or very few go to the root of the problem. It's whoever's paying for it.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

And look, I think this goes to an important part of this story, which is they are classifying in many different respects trans surgery as necessary medical care, which means that insurance is often paying for these trans surgeries. And I think it's a good point being raised. First of all, they aren't necessary medical care. And I'll give you an example. Cosmetic procedures are generally not covered by insurance. Now, sometimes there are exceptions, right? So if you had double mastectomy, you could have breast replacement surgery as part of your recovery from breast cancer. I think most of you out there would say yes, I can understand why that would be necessary. But you don't typically just get to have cosmetic surgery and have it paid for by your insurance. Right. So when they are classifying this as medically necessary, that is significant because it's then getting insurance to pay for these surgeries. This shouldn't be. I mean, if you. This should be seen as a cosmetic surgery that you have to pay 100% out of pocket for, that would at least dial back, I would think some of these surgeries that are taking place. And again, I think we have to have a real conversation. And I'm not trying to be mean because I think a lot of people out there, particularly women, are afraid of being seen as mean on this issue. But I Do think the, the discussion surrounding. It's not kind to tell people who have a mental illness that their mental illness is real.

[Clay Travis]

It's actually deeply, it's actually deeply cruel to play along with a serious psychotic break or delusion. It's a cruel thing to do.

[Buck Sexton]

Buck talked about eating disorder. Same thing with schizophrenia. If someone is seeing things that are not actually there, if someone is hearing voices that are not actually there, it isn't considered to be a kind thing to say, oh, I hear those voices too. I see what you are seeing. It does not in any way help the health of the person to believe their mental illness is real. That's what we've done with the trans community.

[Clay Travis]

The more and I talked about the implementation or the desire to implement Sharia based amputations in Pakistan. It happened in Malaysia and a province of Malaysia as well. And this is within living memory. And there was, there was pushback on this from the medical communities there, many of whom were trained internationally, of course. Right. So if you train, you know, in the UK in medicine and then you go back to Pakistan, they're saying, hey, this guy, I don't, you know, he did something bad, cut his hand off, but, but use anesthesia, they're like, no, I don't, I'm not going to do that. Like, that's not what I, you know, do no Harm is a very good foundation for, for, for modern medicine.

[Buck Sexton]

Do no harm is the number one start of medical care.

[Clay Travis]

And there is a, there is a mental health, there's a mental illness called Body Integrity Identity Disorder. BIID We've talked about it before. It is a, when a person believes that a, it's usually a limb, that a limb is, they should not have it. And if it were removed, they would be happier. You might say, Buck. You are saying, buck, this is crazy. Yes, it is 100% crazy. It is, it is crazy the way that somebody who is skin and bones thinks they are fat because they are severely anorexic. And that happens. I knew somebody growing up, a friend of mine, sister almost died from anorexia. You know, it's a serious mental health issue that should be treated. And you know, these people need help. They need help. The point here is not to stigmatize it. No, the point is to help people. But what doesn't help them is to play. What doesn't help is, oh, you have body identity. Integrity identity disorder. You're right, you don't need that left leg. Let's help you safely amputate it and then you can Hop around on one leg the rest of your life because that will make you happier. What is the difference? Someone? The difference is this has become a left wing fad. This has become part of the communist gender destruction ideology that the left has been pushing for decades now. And we finally see how far they're willing to go. Let's go ahead, Clay.

[Buck Sexton]

No, I think that's. I think it's really well said. And I think this is a good example of toxic empathy where we are being taken advantage of by trying to be kind. And it actually is profoundly unkind. We're not helping the people here by trying to be kind. It's important to have a real conversation about what's going on. And that's what we're trying to do here. And by the way, get ready. Cause I bet I'm going to predict we are going to get attacked vociferously for sharing this opinion as widely as we are. But I think that's part of having a national conversation. Sometimes you have to be willing to take some slings and arrows. And especially when I think here we're right, and I think we're right about something that is super significant and impacting so many different parts of our culture. Look, I want to tell you, last week I went down to Chattanooga, Tennessee, my mom's hometown, and I got to tour the Legacy Box facilities. I got to see where the 8 millimeter family reels go through. I got to see all the VCRs. They have probably the biggest collection of VCRs out there. They're on ebay all the time at Legacy Box, making sure that they can get as many VCR machines as possible. Your old photos, going through this tremendous facility where they treat all of your family memories as of the utmost importance and they want to ensure that you're able to have those memories for as long as your family wants to be able to share them, which hopefully is for decades, maybe even hundreds of years from now. A lot of our materials, they degrade over time. Photos, 8 millimeters, VCRs, whatever you've got out there that's important for your family, it's not made to last. The digital era has taken over and you want to be able to easily share these items and also preserve them so they're not in somebody's attic, so they are not slowly disintegrating in somebody's hot garage. So maybe you have a fire in the house and your family's memories vanish once and for all. That's what Legacy Box is designed to take care of. Go right now to legacybox.com Clay it's summer. A lot of people get moving on this during the holiday season, but you can get an advantage right now because we're in the middle of summer. Go to legacybox.com clay50% off your order right now. That's legacybox.com clay fabulous company. Get hooked up today. Nick and Adam have really built something special down in Chattanooga. Legacybox.com Clay Keep up with the biggest political comeback in world history on the Team 47 podcast Clay and Buck highlight Trump replays from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one we live for live streaming now.

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

And I'm Carol Markowitz.

[Buck Sexton]

We've been in political media for a long time. Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane. That's why we started normally a podcast.

[Commercial Announcer]

For people who are over the hysteria.

[Buck Sexton]

And just want clarity. We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor. We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously. So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass, you're our kind of people. Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday.

[Commercial Announcer]

And Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Buck Sexton]

Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Closing the Wednesday edition of the program, we had a big discussion. Unfortunately, again, if you just get in your car, the brutal killing 8 and 10 year old kids in church pews in Minneapolis. A lot of the news breaking during the course of the program. We have been covering it and having a conversation about that that probably you're not going to hear in most media because some of the details make many people on the left uncomfortable about who's doing much of the shooting out there. Um, and let's Go to Jill in Pennsylvania. She's got a question for us. Jill, what you got?

[Clay Travis]

All right.

[Buck Sexton]

Not that Jill did not show up. What about Joe in Florida? Joe, what you got for us?

[David Rutherford]

How are you talking to me?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, if your name's Joe and you're in Florida, you're firing away.

[Clay Travis]

Yep.

[David Rutherford]

Okay. First of all, thanks for taking my call. This is not the point of my call, but I want to express my sympathies for, you know, the victims, their families, and the community there in Minneapolis for this, for sure. The point I called to make, though, is about this transgender surgery, especially on children. First question and the point. But I'm posing as the question, if secondary sexual characteristics like genitalia and breasts do not define gender, then how does surgically altering them affirm gender?

[Clay Travis]

It's an excellent argument that they have no answer to. Sir, let me say you're. You're kind of like mic drop. I mean, you're completely correct. If it's not about the physical structures, why must they change the physical structures to be the. To be the new thing?

[Buck Sexton]

That's a great point. And then you had a secondary point.

[David Rutherford]

Second point is everybody seems to have forgotten a few years ago when do you remember the outcry about female circumcision was it was appropriately decried as horrific genital mutilation?

[Buck Sexton]

Many.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

In many different. Sorry to cut you off. In African communities, this was unacceptable, but continued very widespread.

[Clay Travis]

It was going on a lot of sub Saharan African communities. Yeah.

[David Rutherford]

The cried is horrific and unacceptable on adults. How is that now acceptable on children?

[Buck Sexton]

I think you nailed two arguments that expose much of the illegitimacy, of the toxic empathy that has led to this being accepted. Buck, I think you probably would sign off on this, and I think many people out there have been taken advantage of on this issue because you're trying to be kind. You feel bad that someone has an idea that they are not in the body they should be in and has convinced themselves that if they were a different gender, that is the pathway to happiness for them. Increasingly, however, I think all of the data out there is showing that these surgeries do not make people actually happier. And that demanding that we treat a mental illness as a non mental illness actually has many destructive characteristics across all parts of American society. And we have to treat this as a mental illness, not as something where they're preying upon our kindness. And I think a lot of people. Me. You may have initially tried to be kind on this issue, and ultimately, it's not kind to enable people's mental illnesses to get worse.

[Clay Travis]

Yes. Completely, completely agree with that. Do we have any. Oh, we got. Sorry, go ahead.

[Buck Sexton]

No, yeah, I was going to read this email from Please don't give my name on air. My daughter is an armed teacher at school. She's been trained by retired Army Special Forces, Navy seals. She attends training courses every three or four months. A number of signs on building stating there are armed security members at school. We live in Missouri. I'm proud of her, yet afraid for if she has to ever use her training. Thank you for your daughter doing whatever she can to try to protect the kids under her care. I think she's a hero, frankly.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. There's so many veterans and just so many Americans listening right now who think, what, what more honorable thing could you do day in and day out than trying to protect our kids, our kids in school, our kids in churches. So I, to me it's just clear that there's nothing but upside to this to meaning to take these actions to protect us in more and more places. But again, I'm a guy, Clay, who, you know, I go out to dinner with my brother and I see that, you know, he's got his pistol and I got mine and I'm like, everyone in this restaurant is safe. Everybody in this restaurant is safe, whether they know it or not. And you know, those of us who know, know. And unfortunately, the demo communists, they think disarming us all makes us safer. More on this tomorrow.

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[Buck Sexton]

You want smart political talk without the meltdowns, we got you. I'm Carol Markowitz. And I'm Mary Kathryn Hamilton. We've been around the block in media, and we're doing things differently.

[Clay Travis]

Normally is about real conversations, thoughtful, try.

[Buck Sexton]

To be funny, grounded, and no panic. We'll keep you informed and entertained without ruining your day. Join us every Tuesday and Thursday Normally on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.