Hour 3 - Father Bill Nicholas on Christmas Meaning

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Hour 3 - Father Bill Nicholas on Christmas Meaning"

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Brett Witterble (in for Clay Travis & Buck Sexton)
Special Guest: Father Bill Nicholas

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Episode Overview

This special Christmas episode explores the deeper meaning of the holiday, focusing especially on the biblical, historical, and political context of Christmas. Brett Witterble welcomes Father Bill Nicholas to discuss the nativity story’s enduring resonance—from the political environment at Christ’s birth to its spiritual reflection for today. The episode integrates listener calls on topics ranging from current events to gun rights, before zeroing in on the core Christmas conversation with Father Bill.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. America’s Moment: Space, Economy, and Spirit

[02:45–13:35]

• Brett Witterble opens with reflections on a surging US economy and NASA’s Artemis 2 lunar mission. He frames these as symbols of American ingenuity and the nation’s persistent drive to achieve big things despite naysayers and political rhetoric.
• Brett laments a recurring theme in recent years: America being told it "cannot do big things," and stresses the need to reclaim national confidence and leadership.

Notable quote:

“When we achieve big things, the rest of the world looks at us. We are leaders...We must always understand that we can go farther and better.”
— Brett Witterble [12:15]

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2. Callers Weigh In: Gun Rights and Education

[16:16–21:33]

• Diane from California argues gun-free zones don't work and advocates for arming teachers with non-lethal defense tools, expanding on the need to actively practice constitutional rights.
• Brett agrees, noting the ongoing debate over the proper way to protect students and teachers.
• Gary from Pennsylvania calls in to clarify the role of tariffs as an economic tool and chimes in on the teacher/rights discussion, suggesting the importance of curriculum and teachers as role models regardless of ideology.

Memorable quote:

“We have to practice our rights. If we...don’t, they go away. That’s...taking away your rights, to say we have to be in these gun-free zones.”
— Diane, Caller [18:29]

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3. The Christmas Conversation with Father Bill Nicholas

[22:50–35:23]

Contextualizing the Nativity

• Brett introduces Father Bill Nicholas, highlighting the annual impulse to politicize Jesus's birth story.
• Father Bill unpacks the deeper meanings in the nativity narratives, distinguishing the real historical context from modern reinterpretations.

Jesus’s Birth: Political and Spiritual Dimensions

• Jesus’s birth occurred under Rome’s rule, involving a census—both an act of control and taxation that clashed with Jewish traditions.
• The census (as per the Book of Numbers and 2 Samuel) was historically offensive because only God was thought worthy to number His people.

Notable quote:

“We have politicians who try and attach their own particular agenda to the birth of Jesus...They forget Egypt was still part of the Roman Empire. It would be like moving from state to state in this country.”
— Father Bill Nicholas [23:39]

Power, Vulnerability, and the Nativity’s Paradoxes

• The “king of the Jews” claim directly challenged both Herod’s and Caesar’s authority.
• Herod’s massacre of innocents is linked to cyclical child sacrifice in pagan cultures and compared to modern issues like abortion, secularization, and the marginalization of faith in public life.
• The stable and its humble visitors (shepherds and magi) offer a radical redefinition of power: from domination to vulnerability, inviting reflection on elitism, inclusion, and the real meaning of leadership.

Memorable moment:

“Where is true power to be found, at least in the eyes of God?...We find Christ in the poorest of the poor.”
— Father Bill Nicholas [29:19]

The Birth as Creation Story

• Brett pivots to the theological view of Christmas as not only a nativity story but a “creation story.”
• Father Bill explains the Gospel of John’s opening—“In the beginning was the Word...” (John 1:1)—as echoing Genesis and marking God’s entrance into human history.
• He highlights the significance of Jesus entering the line of David not by blood, but by legal claim, thus restoring the promised eternal kingship.

Notable quote:

“God becomes the line of David not by bloodbirth, but by Joseph claiming Jesus as his own...God has now entered into the family of David, and that rule will be eternal.”
— Father Bill Nicholas [34:02]

Blessing and Closing

• Father Bill shares where listeners can find more of his homilies (YouTube: Father William Nicholas, website: FrBillNicholas.com).
• He offers a blessing for the audience and nation in celebration of Christmas.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Brett Witterble on American Achievement:
  “This country is predicated on coming to this continent, taming the continent...working hard and being remunerated...and we became the number one place people wanted to come.” [10:00]

• Father Bill Nicholas on the Census and Politics:
  “There was...a tradition...that only God would know the number...to conduct a census was highly offensive.” [25:07]

• On Countercultural Power of the Nativity:
  “There are also other circles that we do find [Christ], and that we need to reach out and be inclusive...mindful of our call to reach out to those on the margins.”
  — Father Bill Nicholas [30:45]

• On Jesus' Eternal Kingship:
  “God doesn't contradict himself. So how does he settle this? Well, in Jesus, God is now entering into the line of David...” [33:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• American accomplishments, Artemis mission, and national spirit
  [02:45–13:35]

• Caller Diane on gun-free zones, Brett’s reactions
  [16:16–19:11]

• Caller Gary on tariffs and teachers’ roles
  [20:21–21:33]

• Father Bill Nicholas joins, context of nativity and census
  [22:50–25:47]

• Jesus’ birth as challenge to power and parallel to modern issues
  [26:58–28:54]

• Meaning of the stable and power in vulnerability
  [29:19–31:10]

• Christmas as creation and fulfillment of Davidic promise
  [31:10–34:06]

• Father Bill’s closing remarks, blessing, and resources
  [34:21–35:16]

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Resources Mentioned

• Father Bill Nicholas’s content:
  • YouTube: Father William Nicholas
  • Website: FrBillNicholas.com

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This summary reflects the lively, insightful tone of the conversation, bringing out both Brett Witterble’s enthusiasm and Father Bill Nicholas’s thoughtful scriptural analysis, making key moments and deeper themes accessible even to listeners who missed the episode.

Transcript

[Father Bill Nicholas]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Clay Travis]

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[Fitness Show Announcer]

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[Caller Diane]

Pressure is coming down.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

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[Brett Witterble]

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[Whimsound Announcer]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound that's W I I M S O U n D.

[Brett Witterble]

While we're spending time with family this holiday season and Buck is stuck in a sound booth recording his new book, you can listen.

[Whimsound Announcer]

To us on the podcast.

[Brett Witterble]

Clay don't rub it in, but that's right, just fire up the iHeartRadio app and kick back with the Sunday hang, guaranteed laughs. Or check out any of our other great hosts in the Clay and Buck Podcast Network. There's so much content you won't even miss us. But we'll miss you and look forward to speaking with you again in the new year. Until then, SHIELD time. And welcome to the Clay and Buck Show. I am Brett Witterble, sitting in for Clay and Buck. So grateful to have this time with each and every one of you. Very exciting. If you don't know who I am, typically you will hear me over at WBT in Charlotte, North Carolina. It is a pleasure to be with you. Our telephone number. Everything is fair game. 800-282-2882. As we look at this incredible report that we got from the economy, right, we've got, we've got an unbelievable opportunity for growth and people are just sitting back saying, wait a minute, how did that happen? Well, how did it happen? It took a lot of work, it took a lot of effort. It took a lot of, of all that sort of stuff. Not only are we looking at a really nice economy, getting ready to bloom as we get into 2026, but what have I told you? We have astronauts suiting up for their journey to the moon. Now, admittedly, when I was looking at this story, by the way, Merry Christmas to everybody. As I was looking at this storyline, I was saying to myself, wait a minute, wait a minute. I remember when we used to send rockets out into space and then you would have people landing on the moon. But I guess we have become so, so cautious that we don't really try to do that kind of stuff anymore. But now we are so we've got a banging economy and we've got people going to their journey to the moon, but it's not the kind of journey to the moon that you might think think about. Astronauts are suiting up for their journey to the moon. The countdown is on. If all goes according to plan, four astronauts are set to become the first humans to travel past the confines of our planet gravity well to the moon in over half a century. NASA is hoping to launch its Artemis 2 mission a mere two months from now, two months earlier than originally planned. By launching the four individuals on board an Orion spacecraft mounted to its enormous Space Launch System SLS rocket. The goal is not to touch down on the lunar surface just yet, a goal that NASA has reserved for its follow up Artemis 3 mission, which is tentatively scheduled for 2027. But it's nonetheless a daring feat. The Artemis 2 crew will be flying around the moon and back in an enormous ark. No, no, no. Not. Not an ark like Noah's ark, but in an ark, the way they're going around to the farthest point from Earth that any human has traveled before, including the Apollo missions. And though drama has plagued the Artemis program, this next mission is starting to really come into focus. Over the weekend, NASA conducted a dress rehearsal for its scheduled February launch date. And image shows a Canadian astronaut, Jeremy Hansen, and NASA astronauts Victor Glover, Reid Wiseman, and Christina Koch dressed up in their bright orange Orion suits. According to the space agency, the countdown demonstration test simulated what will go down on launch day itself, including donning the suits and climbing in and out of the spacecraft. However, the SLS rocket is not on the launch pad yet, which forced the crew to board inside the NASA Space Center Vehicle Assembly Building, that famous place that you've seen so many times. Now, it remains to be seen if the SLS will roll out of the pad at Launch Complex 39B, which played a key role in the Apollo program. But the Orion was already stacked on the SLS in October inside the building, allowing astronauts to conduct the rehearsal. So this is us going back to space in a substantial way. It's an enormous and highly complex task, but with enormous payoff. The last time humans were anywhere near the moon was during NASA's Apollo 17 mission, which launched just over 53 years ago. See, we as a country have been told that we can't do important things, big things. I'm not talking just about military stuff or wars or things like that. I'm talking about us being the top of the pile. This is an important point when we decide that we want to go and chase these sorts of things and we are able to actually carry it out. Everybody in the country feels that accomplishment for a long time, and I don't want to make everything political, but for a long time, we've been told we can't do things, that it's impossible, it's too hard. It's. It's. It's just. It's one of those things where people say, well, you don't have to quit so easily. You don't have to stop so early. Just try to do these big things. When we achieve big things, the rest of the world looks at us. We are leaders. What you saw between the period of 2009 and the Trump presidency, in that first term, what you saw was an administration in Obama, Biden that did not want to do great things, things they wanted to just be thought of as just another country, just another person. When you go back to that time, you'll remember the famous line in which President Obama said, well, we are the exception, but the Greeks are exceptional and the Turks are exceptional and the Europeans are exceptional. He didn't even understand this teacher of law, did not even understand that the exception was the founding of our constitutional republic, that we could do great things, that we had the ability to be the first country that was talking about freedom and liberty and charting our own courses. The president of the United States did not even understand that basic concept. And then came Donald Trump, who talked to us in a way that said we need to do big things, great things, important things, until we ran into Covid and Joe Biden came to the White House and told us and scolded us and said to us that we are not that great. We cannot do big things. We cannot pull anything in any way or shape or form. What? We are just another cog in the. In the gear. That is not what this country is predicated on. This country is predicated on coming to this continent, taming the continent when it comes to building crops, building buildings, building universities, building all of these things, working hard and being able to be remunerated for that, all of that sort of stuff. And we became the number one place in the entire world that people wanted to come and see us, to be with us, to understand what it is that we are capable of doing. And for a number of years, we've hidden our lamp under a basket. Our lamp is now shining brightly to people in our country and around the world. Normally, I wouldn't pay so much attention about the idea of going back to space, but. But we were the people who did it. We were the people who achieved it. We are the people who looked and said, we are going there. In the words of jfk, this is what's important, to be back on top, not holding people back, but leading the way for the future. And you and I both know we have that ability to do that. We have that ability to return. This country is made up of so many different people with so many different backgrounds. It's nearly a guarantee that we would find people who were brilliant enough to be able to put these things together in the right pieces in the right time. And that is what we have inherited. But we must not sit on our. On our accomplishments. We must always understand that we can go farther and better. I'm Brett Wooderville, in for Clay and Buck. 800-282-2882. Back after this, Patriots radio hosts a.

[Clay Travis]

Couple of regular guys, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

[Brett Witterble]

Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Fitness Show Announcer]

Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000. This is where mindset comes in. Someone will be eliminated.

[Caller Diane]

Pressure is coming down.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th watch the trailer on trainergames.com it's the.

[Brett Witterble]

Most wonderful time of the year and.

[Clay Travis]

Valpak is here to make it even.

[Brett Witterble]

Better this month as you sip through holiday mail, don't miss the blue Valpak envelope. From dining to holiday shopping, there's a slate for full of savings in your mailbox, plus a chance to instantly win $100. That's right, you can find $100 Christmas cash inside. Want to save even more money on what you love? Go to valpak.com for local coupons and offers. It pays to open Valpak. No purchase necessary for instant win voip prohibited prices are randomly inserted. See specially marked Valpak envelopes for details.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

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[Whimsound Announcer]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8 inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just 2.99. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Wind sound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim sound beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search whim sound. That's W I I M S O U N D and welcome back.

[Brett Witterble]

I'm Brett Wooderville in for Clay and Buck. 800. 282. 282. Let's grab a couple calls here and see what's on people's minds. Let's go out and talk to Diane in California. Diane, welcome to the Clay and Buck Show. What's on your mind?

[Caller Diane]

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to speak my mind.

[Brett Witterble]

Sure.

[Caller Diane]

I'd, I'd like to comment on the recent school shooting. I believe that gun free zones have been an abject failure and that as a deterrent, I think that all teachers and people in the public should be required to carry non lethal firearms. I think it's a deterrent and it goes to a deeper point which is these are our rights guaranteed to us. And I think instead of posting the Ten Commandments at every public building, we should post our Bill of Rights. I'm sure there's a lot of Americans that don't know what they are.

[Brett Witterble]

Sure.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Yeah.

[Brett Witterble]

I think there's a few. Yes. I think there's a few indeed. Absolutely. Let me, let me ask you a question though. Hypothetical. So you're, you're advocating for something that is a absolutely reasonable combination. Right. Where you're saying we're not going to make you carry guns like actual gun guns, but you know, less than lethal sort of things. Are, are you confident that you would not run afoul? Not, not you, but the general you. That you would run afoul of just less than lethal weaponry? Because I think you would see these people coming around saying we can't even do that. What would be the answer to that question?

[Caller Diane]

Well, I think that if the idea is that we're trying to keep people safe by having gun free zones, it has proven to be unsafe and criminals often stake out these places which was in the case of this recent university shooting.

[Brett Witterble]

Yes.

[Caller Diane]

You know, and they know that there's, there's no way for anyone to defend themselves. There weren't even any cameras there.

[Brett Witterble]

Right.

[Caller Diane]

So.

[Brett Witterble]

Right.

[Caller Diane]

I, I think that it is a. We, we have to practice our rights. If we, we were given the rights and in a republic you have to practice the rights you were given otherwise they go away. That's, I, that's taking away your rights to say that we have to be in these gun free zones.

[Brett Witterble]

That's exactly.

[Caller Diane]

And I think that maybe teachers, and maybe it should be part of their education that they learn in this world that we Live in now they learn to use these non lethal weapons and learn to defend themselves rather than cowering.

[Brett Witterble]

I think that's, I think that's a, that's a great idea. No, no, I just, you know, I know like, especially a place like California, people be like, oh no, we can't have any kind of a weapon. There's no weapons allowed. Only the bad guys can have the weapons and all that sort of stuff. And it's unfortunate because we, we, we determine these sorts of outcomes and we have to deal with the blowback. That is so common sense. And I appreciate you calling, Diane. Really great idea. I think it's smart. I think it's important. I would, I would wish for everybody that we would have the ability to protect all of our kids, all of the kids. We should not have people coming on the campus with, with illegal firearms looking to murder people. I mean, my gosh, all we have to do is go back to Columbine, to this moment in time. And I mean it goes back much further than Columb. But when you think about these moments, this is, this is not the way the founders would have wanted it to be in any way, shape or form. Let's go out and talk to Gary in Pennsylvania. Gary, welcome to the Clay and Buck Show. What's on your mind?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Hey, Brett, you have the opportunity to take my call. Thank you.

[Brett Witterble]

Yes, sir.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

So a couple quick points here. Tariffs.

[Brett Witterble]

Yes.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Very few people recognize, and you don't hear it much, that tariffs are only a tool.

[Brett Witterble]

Yep. They're, they, they are not the end game.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

They are a tool to get to an equitable place. Everyone talks about equality. That's what tariffs are for.

[Brett Witterble]

That's right. That is right.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

And then concerning the, the teacher, the thing out in California.

[Brett Witterble]

Yes, sir.

[Caller Diane]

That's.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

A good example of, and I don't know these teachers, but I'm guessing there are quite a few liberal and conservative teachers out there. And I am guessing that we're talking teachers. Teachers have an agenda. Their agenda is to teach students and, and to give them good role models.

[Brett Witterble]

I think your teacher's agenda. Yeah, it should not be, it never should be. It should be the, the, the, the, the curriculum. That's what we've got to do. We should not surrender in that regard. Coming up, we got Father Bill Nicholas, he's going to be joining us. We're going to talk about Christmas and all of the blessings that comes along with that. I, I just, I'm so excited about this upcoming, Chris. I think it's going to be so awesome. It's going to be exciting. We're going to feel it and we're going to be where we need to be. And that is at the top of the pile in the world. And I'm proud of it. I'm not gonna hold it back. I'm Brett Witterble. You're listening to Clay and Buck. We back right after this. And welcome back to the Clay and Buck Show. I'm Brett Wooderville in for Clay and Buck. Our telephone number, 800-282-2882. It is my pleasure to welcome back to the to the airwaves one of my favorite people, and it is Father Bill Nicholas who joins us here today, the day before Christmas Eve. And it's it's a pleasure to have you on the, on the program here. Father BILL how are you doing?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Good. It's great to join you, Brett.

[Brett Witterble]

It's great to be with you and to to to sort of talk a little bit about the, the celebration that we are going to have on on Christmas Day. And one of the things that I was looking at, I was looking at the different sort of iterations of the birth of Christ. And one of the things that stuck out to me was the notion of the birth as a political act. This is a very interesting sort of a take a thought about the notion of Jesus being born under an imperial census and a tool of control and taxation. Can you can you talk a little bit about the different sort of iterations here that we see in the in the birth of our of our Savior?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Oh, sure. You're and as you know, no following the political news as you do, and as I try to every year, we have politicians who try and attach their own particular agenda to the birth of Jesus. One of my favorites is they say that that when they escaped to Egypt, Jesus, Mary and Joseph were migrants going from one country to another. When they forget Egypt was still part of the Roman Empire. And it would be like moving from state to state in this country. So it isn't quite the the connection that they're hoping to make. But certainly what's included in the story of Jesus, at least as is told in the Gospel of Luke, is that this occurred at a time in which the people were undergoing a forced migration to the family's city of origin, in Joseph's case, the city of David, Bethlehem, to engage in a census. And of course, what good is a political activity without a tax? And the implication in that is there was at least one tradition. Now, to be frank, the Book of Numbers begins with a Census of the people of God. But there was at least one tradition, some tradition out there in the ancient Jewish biblical understanding that only God would know the number of that uncountable multitude. Remember, he initially told Abraham, count the number of the stars if you can, or the sands on the shore of the sea, and that is the number that your descendants will be. And the idea is it's uncountable.

[Brett Witterble]

And.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

And so only while you still have that tradition in numbers that begins. That's why it's called the Book of Numbers. It begins with a census. There was also a tradition that only God would know the number. And to conduct the census was highly offensive to God. And case in point, on the very, very last chapter of the second book of Samuel, King David tries to conduct a census, and he's punished for it. And so you remember things like that. And you have, okay, Mary and Joseph expecting a child, having to take this journey to Bethlehem along with a lot of other people. And not only would it be crowded again, no room at the inn.

[Brett Witterble]

Yep.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

I would say most likely they weren't the only ones who couldn't find room. Probably not the only ones who had to take refuge in a stable, and probably not the only ones who had to take refuge in that particular stable. But they're in the midst of doing something that had a great possibility, was highly sacrilegious to them. You know, we have such songs, and I certainly am for singing them at Christmas, such as Silent Night, in which all is calm. I'm not exactly sure that was the case on the night Jesus was born. As Luke tells the story, I picture a city on the edge, really on the edge of possibly civil unrest. Not again in the sense that we would see it today, but people of great resentment that this foreign pagan power is forcing them to do something that at least in some biblical parts, would be highly offensive. And then, of course, Mary and Joseph, as she's ready to give birth. And so you have a political context in which this is done. And even the book of the Gospel of Luke begins telling you who's the ruler in Jerusalem. I believe he mentions the Roman emperor, and he even tells you who the high priest is in the temple at the time. So he puts it in a very particular context of the rulership of the time.

[Brett Witterble]

What about the notion of the king of the Jews? Right. That's got to be a direct challenge to Caesar, right? His claim of. Of divinity. How does that. How does that shake out?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Well, that there again, it takes you to another gospel and that's the Gospel of Matthew, where not so much the imperial power, but certainly King Herod. The story is that the magi from the east sought the king of the Jews where they would expect to find the king of the Jews. And that is in the halls of the Jerusalem palace. And Herod naturally feels threatened by that. But we also show a certain hint of paganism that had infiltrated the people at the time. Because you look at so many ancient pagan cultures, child sacrifice is a part of that ancient culture. Whether it's ancient Mesopotamia, which Abraham got away from, which sacrificed the firstborn, or you look at even Native American cultures, Aztec cultures, where you had human sacrifice and in some cases child sacrifice here at the beginning of Jesus life. The aftermath of that inheritance efforts to destroy the child is the slaughter of the innocents. And it's actually a feast day. We celebrate, I believe, two days, two or three days after Christmas. We remember the celebration of the slaughter of the innocents. And that certainly could be compared to what we see encroaching in our society today while we're celebrating Christmas. There's a strong secularization that wants to secularize our country. And we certainly are a country that sees a great deal of slaughter of innocents in the. The fact that abortion is still legal in this country, Granite Roe versus Wade has been overturned, but it puts it down to the states for the people to decide. And some states are going one direction, some states are going another. But we certainly see in any nation that gets away from the Christian faith, we do see children being victimized. And so you can certainly see parallels to that in the Christmas story.

[Brett Witterble]

Visiting with Father Bill Nicholas. It's always good to talk to him, a good friend of mine and a good friend of many people who listen to him and, and, and see what it is that's there. The, the stable becomes a sort of counter kingdom. Power redefined from domination to vulnerability. How does that come to be, Father?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Well, there we find the question of where is true power to be found, at least in the eyes of God? And, and where are we to find the presence of Christ continuing even in our world today? Mother Teresa, certainly in a very extreme example, reminded us we find Christ in the poorest of the poor. Pope Francis reminded much of the chagrin of certain circles, even in the Catholic Church. We find Christ on the peripheries. We find Christ in the outcast. Doesn't mean we compromise on church teaching, but we need to look. We need to look for Christ in the people who are marginalized, in the poor and those who would consider separate. And again, we live in a society in which there's a great deal of elitism in certain circles. And they probably would find it a great. A troubling notion that God isn't with them as much as he is with those who are not among the elites. And certainly Jesus being born in a stable, surrounded by animals, the first ones who visit him are shepherds and not elite members of Jewish society. Again, taking that's from the Gospel of Luke, the Gospel of Matthew, we have the magi, not even from the Jewish elite. These were astrologers who were foreigners. The first in the Gospel of Matthew to offer worship to Jesus. And it certainly does provide a countercultural expectation to where we find Christ. Christ is to be found everywhere, but where is that preference in how it's presented in that, you know, we can presume he's found in our inner circles, but we're reminded that there are also other circles that we do find him, and that we need to reach out and. And be inclusive, if you will, or at least mindful of our call to reach out to those who are lost, to those who are on the margins.

[Brett Witterble]

Final sort of question for you, because I always like talking to you about this. The Word became flesh, is that not birth story, but a creation story? How is that represented there, Father?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Well, again, that takes you to another gospel. And it's a gospel that doesn't have a story of the birth of Jesus, but it begins very much with the Incarnation. And that's the Gospel of John, just as the very first words of the Book of Genesis. In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth. In the Gospel of John, it starts, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And it goes on to say that everything was created through that word. And then at a certain point, it said the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. And in that word made flesh, we've seen the glory of God, the glory of an only Son coming from the Father. And that is one of the gospels that is read in the Catholic Mass, at least of Mass during the day. And it's a favorite gospel of mine and of deacons I've worked with, who in the Catholic Mass, if there's a deacon present, he reads the gospel. And they always like to remind me that that's their role on that day, because they love reading that particular passage because it speaks of it in a theological sense. But not only that. We look at what's mentioned in the Gospel of Luke with the annunciation to Mary. The angel not only tells her that she's going to give birth to a child to be a savior of the world, but he's going to restore the reign of David. And I mentioned David earlier with the census he attempted. But in the book of Jeremiah, the family of David, right before the fall and the exile to Babylon is cursed by Jeremiah, where he says of Jeconiah the king, he says none of his offspring will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Jerusalem. So record this man as if childless. And it's a dramatic moment that perhaps is overlooked a lot of times in the book of the prophet Jeremiah. So God has cursed the family that he promised would always sit on the throne. God doesn't contradict himself. So how does he settle this? Well, in Jesus, God is now entering into the line of David. And God becomes the line of David not by bloodbirth, but by Joseph claiming Jesus as his own. That's why I don't like to refer to Joseph as the foster father of Jesus. A foster father does not lend his name to the child he raises. But Jesus was considered a son of Joseph of the family of David. And there's where later on the gospel, the blind man named Bartimaeus, what gets Jesus attention is when he cries out, jesus, son of David. And so where God had cursed the family of David for falling so astray right before the Babylonian exile, he still fulfilled his promise to David by inserting himself into the line of David. And there's where the angel says he will rule over the house of Jacob forever. And others reign. He will have no end.

[Brett Witterble]

Why?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Because God has now entered into the family of David and that rule will be eternal.

[Brett Witterble]

That is fantastic. That is so great. In our last moment, where can people go and see your sermons to talk about, you know, this sorts of things? Where. Where's the best place for you to connect?

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Well, I'm in my new assignment now in Southern Indiana. It's gotten to be pretty busy. Unfortunately I haven't been able to update my YouTube channel, but there's a lot of archives on it as well. Yeah, and I have a YouTube channel that's basically fr. For Father Bill, Father William Nicholas. And I have a website that includes a regular podcast that I try and keep up to date. And that is Fr. For Father Fr. Bill nicholas.com One word. And the only period is after the death before the dot com. So it's FrBill Nicholas.com or my YouTube channel.

[Brett Witterble]

Father William Nicholas, thanks so much. Would you give us a quick blessing.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

I'd be happy to. And all the best for you and all your listeners. And a blessing on the whole nation, I suppose, as we celebrate the great center of our faith as a Christian society here in the United States. And may Almighty God bless everybody in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

[Brett Witterble]

Thanks so much Father. We appreciate you and look forward to catching up again soon. Thanks so much for being time with us.

[Father Bill Nicholas]

Glad to be with you. Merry Christmas.

[Brett Witterble]

Merry Christmas. Let's get a break in here. What a great conversation. I'm Brett Witterble in for Clay and Buck. Let's let's take a break saving America one thought at a time.

[Clay Travis]

Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

[Brett Witterble]

Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Clay Travis]

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Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000. This is where mindset comes in. Someone will be eliminated.

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[Brett Witterble]

Valpak.

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Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whimsound Smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From quiet mornings to lively holiday gatherings, WinSound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whimsound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whimsound. That's wiimsound.

[Clay Travis]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Fitness Show Announcer]

Ten athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract worth $250,000. This is where mindset comes in. Someone will be eliminated.

[Caller Diane]

Pressure is coming down.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th. Watch the trailer on trainergames.com your ticket.

[Valpak Announcer]

To big Savings is that big blue envelope in your mailbox.

[Brett Witterble]

Valpak.

[Valpak Announcer]

It's brimming with deals from big name brands and your favorite local spots. D services, stuff you're already buying, all for less. And you could score $100 or other instant prizes just for opening it. Or save even faster with mobile coupons you can use right [e-mail] Valpak there's definitely something in it for you.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and Snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to Insider, usski and snowboard.org and join today.

[Whimsound Announcer]

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From quiet mornings to lively holiday gatherings, whim sound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search whimsound. That's W I I m S o u n d this is an I heart podcast.

[Brett Witterble]

Guaranteed human.