Hour 3 - KY Sen. Rand Paul

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Hour 3 Summary: KY Sen. Rand Paul

Episode Details:

• Title: Hour 3 - KY Sen. Rand Paul
• Release Date: May 6, 2025
• Host/Authors: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton, iHeartPodcasts

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1. Introduction and Overview

The third hour of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show" features a comprehensive discussion with Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. The hosts delve into pressing political issues, including Donald Trump's proposal to impose tariffs on the movie industry, the implications of offshoring film production, and Senator Paul’s ongoing inquiries into Anthony Fauci’s involvement in gain-of-function research. Additionally, they explore international relations concerning Iran and trade tariffs, as well as the broader themes of government spending and national debt.

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2. Trump's Tariff Proposal on the Movie Industry

Key Discussion Points:

• Trump's Proposal: President Donald Trump suggested imposing tariffs on movie productions to encourage American-based filmmaking.
• Offshoring Concerns: The move aims to counteract the trend of producing films overseas, particularly in Eastern Europe, to reduce production costs.

Notable Quotes:

• Clay Travis [02:45]: "Trump looked at the offshoring trend and he is saying, well, this is not ideal. We need to be producing American movies in the United States. And I don't think he's wrong on that."
• Buck Sexton [03:17]: "It's cheaper to do a show or a movie in Eastern Europe... than to use empty studio lots in Los Angeles right now."

Insights:

• Economic Impact: Keeping film production domestic supports blue-collar jobs, from set builders to camera operators, many of whom are strong Trump supporters.
• Political Alliances: This policy creates unexpected alliances within Hollywood, traditionally seen as left-leaning, highlighting a divide between different segments of the industry.

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3. Whoopi Goldberg's Opposition

Key Discussion Points:

• Goldberg's Criticism: Whoopi Goldberg publicly criticized Trump's tariff proposal on "The View," arguing it infringes on creative freedom.
• Clay's Rebuttal: Clay counters Goldberg’s stance by emphasizing the importance of preserving American jobs and maintaining control over the domestic film industry.

Notable Quotes:

• Clay Travis [07:00]: "Right, Whoopi Goldberg is mad at Trump over trying to come up with a solution here on the View. She decided to instead say..."
• Buck Sexton [13:06]: "And let me just say again to Whoopi Goldberg, you moron, no one is saying if a movie set in Paris that the movie shouldn't be shot in Paris."

Insights:

• Creative vs. Economic Interests: The debate underscores the tension between artistic freedom and economic nationalism within the entertainment industry.
• Public Perception: Clay and Buck express frustration with what they perceive as uninformed criticism from Hollywood figures like Goldberg.

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4. Impact on Hollywood and American Jobs

Key Discussion Points:

• Job Preservation: Emphasizing that the majority of film industry workers who benefit from domestic production are not the high-earning stars but the behind-the-scenes staff.
• Economic Ripple Effect: Money spent on film productions supports a wide range of workers and contributes significantly to local economies.

Notable Quotes:

• Clay Travis [05:30]: "The monies that are spent on films trickle down in a huge way to the guy that's making a set and sitting there with a saw..."
• Buck Sexton [08:48]: "A lot of states are already hip to this, if you will. They get it."

Insights:

• State Incentives: States like Georgia and South Carolina offer significant tax breaks to attract film productions, creating competition among states to support the industry.
• Cultural Identity: Maintaining Hollywood as the heart of American cinema is seen as crucial for both economic and cultural reasons.

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5. Senator Rand Paul on Anthony Fauci and Gain-of-Function Research

Key Discussion Points:

• Fauci's Accountability: Senator Paul discusses ongoing investigations into Anthony Fauci’s role in funding gain-of-function research at the Wuhan lab.
• Evidence of Inconsistencies: Highlighting documents showing EcoHealth Alliance thanking NIH for lifting the gain-of-function pause, contradicting Fauci’s statements.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul [26:07]: "We think that's Anth Fauci and we're getting closer to that...they have EcoHealth alliance sending notes back to the NIH saying thank you for lifting our gain of function pause."
• Rand Paul [31:17]: "The next virus could be avian flu. Avian flu has a 50% death rate...this kind of research should not occur and the taxpayer shouldn't pay for it."

Insights:

• Transparency Issues: The Biden administration’s refusal to release documents has hindered accountability efforts.
• Future Risks: Emphasizing the dangers of unchecked gain-of-function research, which could lead to more deadly pandemics.

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6. Trump's Policies on Iran and Sanctions

Key Discussion Points:

• Houthi Deal: Discussing Trump’s negotiations with the Houthis to cease attacks in exchange for halting attacks on ships.
• Diplomatic Approach: Senator Paul praises Trump’s willingness to engage in negotiations, contrasting it with neoconservative reluctance.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul [33:56]: "Trump goes in with a firm hand, but he does get to the next step of negotiation. He did it with North Korea...the only realistic way of stopping them from getting a nuclear weapon is through diplomacy."
• Rand Paul [36:18]: "The kongress is currently considering tariffs but there are two camps...I think tariffs are misguided."

Insights:

• Diplomatic Strategy: Advocating for a balance of "stick and carrot" in international relations to prevent nuclear proliferation.
• Critique of Sanctions: Senator Paul criticizes extreme sanctions, like a proposed 500% tariff on Russian oil, as economically damaging and counterproductive.

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7. Trade Tariffs and India’s Potential Zero Tariff

Key Discussion Points:

• Tariff Debates: Exploring the divide between free trade advocates and protectionists within the Trump-aligned factions.
• India’s Proposal: India may be open to reducing tariffs to zero for American goods, which Senator Paul views positively.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul [37:02]: "I'm not for the Tariffs. And I think tariffs are misguided...If Trump is able to use as a negotiating technique the ability to lower tariffs with India and they get to a much lower level than when we started, I'll be the first to compliment him."
• Rand Paul [38:52]: "The tariff bill or the sanction bill that Lindsey is proposing on Russia actually would tariff because India and China are the two biggest purchasers of oil and gas from Russia."

Insights:

• Economic Rationality: Senator Paul argues for fair and reciprocal trade agreements rather than punitive tariffs, which could harm global commerce.
• Strategic Tariffs: Recognizing that certain tariffs, like those targeting Russian energy, are more about leveraging political outcomes than fostering economic equality.

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8. Government Spending and National Debt

Key Discussion Points:

• Spending Cuts: Discussing potential government spending cuts and their legislative challenges.
• Senator Paul’s Stance: Emphasizing the need for more substantial cuts beyond the minimal proposals currently being considered.

Notable Quotes:

• Rand Paul [39:10]: "None of them actually count until they come back to Congress. So if you say you've cut spending unless it's actually booked by Congress and Congress votes on it, it doesn't really, it hasn't been transmitted or accounted for."

Insights:

• Legislative Hurdles: Highlighting the difficulties in achieving meaningful reductions in government spending without bipartisan cooperation.
• Fiscal Responsibility: Advocating for more rigorous measures to address the national debt, warning of potential bankruptcy if current trends continue.

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9. Closing Remarks and Future Outlook

The hour concludes with final thoughts on the discussed topics, reinforcing the importance of domestic economic policies, accountability in public health leadership, and strategic international diplomacy. Senator Rand Paul’s insights provide a conservative perspective on these issues, emphasizing transparency, economic nationalism, and pragmatic foreign policy.

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Key Takeaways

• Economic Nationalism in Film: Trump's tariff proposal aims to rejuvenate the American film industry by keeping production domestic, thereby supporting a wide range of American jobs.
• Accountability in Public Health: Ongoing investigations into Anthony Fauci’s role in gain-of-function research underscore the need for transparency and accountability in governmental public health decisions.
• Diplomatic Strategies with Iran: Senator Paul advocates for a balanced approach of negotiation and sanctions to address Iran’s nuclear ambitions, favoring diplomacy over extreme punitive measures.
• Trade Policy Balance: The discussion highlights the complexity of trade policies, advocating for fair and reciprocal agreements rather than blanket tariffs that could disrupt global commerce.
• Fiscal Responsibility: Emphasizing the necessity for significant government spending cuts to address the national debt, warning against complacency in legislative processes.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Clay Travis on Trump's Tariff Proposal [02:45]: "We need to be producing American movies in the United States. And I don't think he's wrong on that."
• Buck Sexton on Offshoring [03:17]: "It's cheaper to do a show or a movie in Eastern Europe... than to use empty studio lots in Los Angeles right now."
• Rand Paul on Fauci's Accountability [26:07]: "We think that's Anth Fauci and we're getting closer to that...they have EcoHealth alliance sending notes back to the NIH saying thank you for lifting our gain of function pause."
• Clay Travis on Whoopi Goldberg [13:06]: "Whoopi Goldberg is mad at Trump over trying to come up with a solution here on the View. She decided to instead say..."
• Rand Paul on Diplomatic Strategy [33:56]: "The only realistic way of stopping them from getting a nuclear weapon is through diplomacy."
• Rand Paul on Trade Tariffs [37:02]: "I think tariffs are misguided. If Trump is able to use as a negotiating technique the ability to lower tariffs with India... I'll be the first to compliment him."

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This summary encapsulates the third hour of the podcast, highlighting the nuanced discussions between Clay Travis, Buck Sexton, and Senator Rand Paul. It provides listeners with a clear understanding of the key issues addressed, the perspectives shared, and the broader implications of the topics discussed.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

It became known as the Iran Contra affair. The things that happened were so bizarre.

[Rand Paul]

And insane I can't begin to tell you.

[Buck Sexton]

Please do.

[Clay Travis]

To hear the whole story. Listen to Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We are rolling through the third hour of the program, Tuesday Edition. Senator Rand Paul just had to reach out. He has had a last minute issue come up on Capitol Hill. He's gonna try to join us at the bottom of this hour hour, just FYI. We'll take some of your calls and continue to break down everything that is moving rapidly in the world as we are rolling today. I did want to mention I know we talked a little bit about this, Buck. Yesterday Trump announced a idea for tariffs for movies and it has provoked a ton of response. And I think this is very interesting, the idea and I actually don't dislike it and let me explain why in a little bit more detail. Interestingly, there was an article that came out, I think it was in the New York Times and I'm betting Trump read it and it was an article or his staff read was an article that dealt with the collapse of jobs in the movie industry in the Los Angeles area in particular. And there were several people who had worked on film and television for years and years that basically said, hey, there's no jobs here anymore. And you mentioned, Buck, that you can now go to Europe and make movies cheaper all over Europe, which certainly has crazy tax rates than you can in the United States. Was it Hungary in particular that you were citing Budapest, where you could go?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, it's actually, I think Rob Lowe in a podcast talking about this, a guy who's been in the business for like 50 years and he said it's cheaper to do a show or a movie in Eastern Europe. Think about that though. It's not that you're using Eastern European crews maybe somewhat to fly all of the cast and the director and the this and the that and everything over there, put them up in hotels, do all of that, than to use empty studio lots in Los Angeles right now. Think about that.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, so I think this is actually a good explanation of how offshoring has worked even for high end industry. And I want you to think about this for a minute. They're doing oftentimes this movie making and this television making in countries with much higher tax rates than the United States. So initially it was a lot of people started to move to Vancouver. Canada was giving huge advantages for making film and movies, television and movies in Canada. Even though Canada, as you heard Trump talking about earlier as a country, has much higher rates on average of taxes than people do in the United States and then European countries. England has, for instance, built up. I think they did all the Star wars movies and I think all the Harry Potter movies on huge studios that they have built outside of London. Well, we all know English taxes are much higher than they are in the United States. And so Trump looked at this and he is saying, well, this is not ideal. We need to be producing American movies in the United States. And I don't think he's wrong on that. And there has been some pushback because I think even people in Hollywood are kind of a little bit skeptical over this. But it is the same thing that has happened in Midwest with factory jobs. As I told you yesterday, a lot of these people that are working on movies, they're blue collar workers. They I know people think, oh, it's Hollywood, oh, it's movies. That's a lot of, you know, super rich limousine people. And yeah, if you're a movie star, you make a lot of money. But the monies that are spent on films trickle down in a huge way to the guy that's making a set and sitting there with a saw, to the person who's got to be pretty physically strong, that's running around with a mobile camera. And I've talked about, as a guy who did television in LA for years, I have met a lot of the cast and crew that are involved in producing television. I'm telling you all, a lot of them are big Trump supporters. So this has, I think, a really interesting conversation aspect to it. Trump, because it creates unnatural or unexpected political alliances.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, if you think about somebody like the key grip, right, who is involved with rigging for camera movements and the physical mechanical components of the camera guys, the lighting guys and gals. But a lot of them are going to be more sympathetic to, let's say, the Trump and capitalist point of view. It's really the producers, the actors in the writers room, where you tend to have much of the communist stuff.

[Clay Travis]

So, not surprisingly, many people have missed this aspect, which is just, hey, we should be on shoring. That is, making even more movies in America that are designed for Americans instead of shipping them overseas. Let's figure out how to do that in the most. The most capitalistic way imaginable. Right? Whoopi Goldberg is mad at Trump over trying to come up with a solution here on the View. She decided to instead say, hey, this is what's gonna happen. Listen to this. Okay, look, you can't do that, because what that equates to is you're gonna tell me how to write the story I want to write if it happens in Europe. You're telling me that if my book comes out and I want to write it, you tell me how to write it. You're telling me you're going to charge me for that? Well, you know, I. Could you. Look, could you please lower the price of eggs before you start this? Okay? The price of eggs is their talking point. It's actually going to be near historic low. They're at wholesale prices now. The prices that you pay in grocery stores are coming down. But she just doesn't under. I mean, this is embarrassing, I think, for someone who should be in entertainment and making movies. Trump is not saying, you can't set a book in Europe, you moron. He's saying, hey, American movies that are set in America shouldn't be filmed on European sound stages. Paying Europeans to make American films. The reason Los Angeles exists as a movie capital is, is historically because it rains so irregularly and the weather is so good, by and large, you could film on More days than almost anywhere else in the United States. And therefore Tinseltown developed. I think continuing to produce American movies in America is actually a really good goal because it gives Americans jobs to entertain Americans by producing these films.

[Buck Sexton]

Also, I would just point out, clearly a lot of states are already hip to this, if you will. They get it.

[Clay Travis]

They're competing.

[Buck Sexton]

There's.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Because they compete with each other for this business. Right. I mean, I think I. I have. It hasn't been something I've looked at in a while, but states like Georgia, I think South Carolina, there are states that gave some pretty hefty tax breaks to movie productions because they realize it brings a lot of good stuff into the state. A lot of dollars, a lot of attention, you know, maybe too much attention. I feel like some of you who live in Montana after the Yellowstone series are like, stop buying up outside of Bozeman. But that obviously affects the real estate markets. I mean, there's a lot to be said for bringing these productions into these places. And I think about something like New York City. So many great iconic movies and. And TV shows were filmed in New York when I was growing up in New York. And a lot of people film felt like they knew New York City from watching those, even if they grew up in Oklahoma. Right. That's not happening the same way anymore, and it's nonsense. And the fact that it's not even happening in California, the home of the movie industry, or really kind of the. The original birthplace of the movie industry, is something that is clearly indicative of how bad policy is. This is not a free market thing. This is a bad policy thing. And it's because California's wage and. And, you know, just job regulations and taxation are completely out of control.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, look, I think that's totally true. And California has got its own issues. I don't have a problem with Georgia deciding, hey, we're going to produce our own studio system. I think a lot of that actually emanated, if I'm not mistaken, from Tyler Perry, who had tremendous success making movies and television shows. And he said, hey, I'm from Atlanta. I want to build my own studio here. And I think there are going to be a lot of challenges. I saw quotes from Tyler Perry talking about, hey, man, I don't know exactly what needs to be built going forward, because I'm sure you've seen some of this buck, and certainly you guys have had fun with doing AI versions of us, but the ability of special effects with AI, it's going to make the making of Films, in particular, special effects, far more affordable. And that's different in terms of how the jobs are going to be associated there with a lot of the challenges that I think exist now, which is we shouldn't be competing with London for whether it's more affordable to make an American movie here or in London or in any other European country you want.

[Buck Sexton]

To talk about, in a sense, the incentives countries like Portugal and Hungary, and some of these are not. Portugal is not a rich country. A lot of Americans are moving there because it's actually such a good. Your dollar goes so far. It's become a popular producer. Ali just went there, she said it was amazing. I actually really want to go side note, but these countries, Clay, when they're giving incentives, it's kind of like a reverse tariff, right? When we start to think about it that way, you see that this is a game that people are playing in a whole range of ways. If you bring a movie to, let's say you're going to film a movie in Portugal and they're going to say, hey, we're going to give you the following financial incentives for you to make your movie here. Well, it's very similar to the mindset of we're going to have a tariff on external movies so that you'll make them here in America. Right. They're just. This is just cash exchanging hands one way or another to create an incentive structure. And I think that with the, with the movie industry, the TV industry, this is the one thing, I might add, that just traditional America needs to make. This is where we really need to push now, because the time has never been more ripe, more clear and more obvious, I think, for a film studio slash, you know, tv, some kind of a production house that's not going to make stuff that is necessarily like right wing or conservative, but that will appeal to the broadest possible audience, which will inherently seem conservative compared to some of the slop they've been putting out on Netflix and Hulu in recent years.

[Clay Travis]

I agree with that 100%. And let me just say again to Whoopi Goldberg, you moron, no one is saying if a movie set in Paris that the movie shouldn't be shot in Paris. Right?

[Buck Sexton]

Clay, she doesn't even read the news story she talks about on the show anymore. I mean, she really. She's mailing it in. You know, I, I've just. I've heard things from people in and who are around that world on the View that she doesn't really want to be there anymore. No, I'm Being serious. She doesn't want to be there anymore, doesn't want to do the homework if she ever did. And it just comes across now because what she's saying is so dumb that it's not even wrong.

[Clay Travis]

Well, you would. Yeah, no, that's. You would think of all of the subjects out there, Hollywood movies, given that she has been in Hollywood movies historically would be something.

[Buck Sexton]

That's some good ones. I know it's been 40. It's been 40 years, but she was in some good ones.

[Clay Travis]

You would think that she would be able to intelligently talk about that. But instead she's so reflexively anti Trump that even something that could make sense to help have more homegrown American jobs in the creative space, which I think is a good thing, she would be opposed to. It's just moronic. If anything, you can argue, and some of you may be of this disposition. I don't want to do anything for anybody that works in the movies because they're so left wing and everything else. I understand that argument. I'm just telling you that having been out in LA a lot and having worked a lot in television and movies, I think you would be surprised. The act, the actors and actresses get all the attention. They're going to be fine. They're super rich. But I think you'd be surprised by the regular guys and gals out there working on movies who love Donald Trump and just want to have a good job so they can take care of their families. We should have more of those in America.

[Buck Sexton]

And this is also a time when if you had the right group of conservative. And again, I just traditional, I would say traditional entertainment. Not even, not even. It's not about the politics. It's just about stories that are meant to inspire and appeal to people in the broadest possible way. The only stuff that even comes close to that has been like superhero movies for the past decade. Please don't send me. I love Kevin Sorbo and some of these people that have worked on more, you know, independent projects and stuff and they're doing the best that they can. I'm saying the big studios, I'm talking about what's getting made by Amazon and Netflix and these are the places that are Apple tv. Clay, the time has never been better to get your, you know, undaunted Lewis and Clark.

[Clay Travis]

It's a no brainer series in the.

[Buck Sexton]

No brainer because I think someone like a Jeff Bezos could, could tell the head of content at Amazon, hey, how about we make a kick ass series that isn't about how you have to trans your 12 year old. How about that?

[Clay Travis]

Let me give credit here. These guys live in my neighborhood. Andrew and John Irwin, Andy and John Irwin. They've been doing tremendous jobs making movies in a lot of the arena that you're talking about, Buck. And what they've seen is the math on these has really kind of taken off. They did the best Christmas pageant ever. They did American Underdog. They did. They've done a lot of different movies. I think we had them on. I can only imagine the Jesus music, the Jesus revolution. And they're involved in a lot of these, a lot of these different. The new David documentary that I think is just not a documentary but I mean it's based on a true life history in the Bible. It's killing it.

[Buck Sexton]

I love that Trump has gone after the stranglehold on elite academia with Harvard, etc. That's critical and it's part of the long term play of putting this country, you know, back in a sane place. But clay entertainment industry, yep, it, you know we, this is another place where we need to really make gains.

[Clay Travis]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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Go to PureTalk.com buck to make the switch and you'll save an additional 50% off your first month. Again, that's PureTalk.com buck to start saving today. Pure Talk Wireless by Americans for Americans. All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck. We got Senator Rand Paul joining us here. In just a few minutes, Senator Paul of Kentucky is going to get into all the news of the day. Some big topics to dive into with him. Might be able to get into this one here as well. Momentarily, breaking news, the Supreme Court has sided with President Trump and Secretary Hegseth allowing the transgender military service member ban to go into effect. This is from the it's a pending case. Okay. So this is an application for a stay. The application for stay presented to Justice Kagan and referred to the court is granted. The preliminary injunction entered into by the United States District Court is stayed pending the disposition. So it's not a final dis. I was going to say lawyer Clay explained this, but we have like five seconds. But it's not final. But at this stage it's, it's going the way of the Trump administration. Right.

[Clay Travis]

They have not stopped. It is the easiest way to, to kind of analyze this. And I know there's so many court cases your heads are and then heads are spinning around at all times. Look out there right now. NHL playoffs, Major league baseball, NBA playoffs all underway and prize picks. You can play in California, you can play in Texas, you can play it in Georgia. It will get you hooked up. Best way to get action in more than 30 states, 13 million of you have downloaded this, this app and you are going to love it. If you use Code Clay right Now, you get $50. You get $50. All you have to do when you play $5 pick more or less whatever you are into, whether it's the NHL, NBA playoffs. You guys know I love football. Football will be back sooner rather than later. But I also love major league baseball, my Atlanta Braves. You, you can pick more or less variety of different players. You can win up to $2,000 on your picks. Pricepix.com code clay that's pricepix.com code clay for 50 bucks welcome back in Clay. Travis Buck Sexton show. Appreciate everybody hanging out with us. We're joined now by Senator Rand Paul, a great state of Kentucky and Senator Paul I know there's a ton of things we're going to get into with you, but I want to start with this. Anthony Fauci. The evidence continues to mount that he lied about gain of Function, research. You uniquely, I think, in the entire political class have continued to hold his feet to the fire. What is the latest about that that you can tell us?

[Rand Paul]

We've been trying to get records on the deliberation of who made the call to send the money to Wuhan. The research, the lab, the league, who funded it. We know the NIH did it, but we want to know who met about it, who discussed it and who made the final approval. We think that's Anth Fauci and we're getting closer to that. The Biden administration refused to give us any documents. They basically refused for years to give any. Robert Kennedy has opened up the books to us. Jay Bhattachary at NIH is also helping us and we're sorting through it. We're going to begin interviewing everybody who's part of the process. So there's a committee over there that discussed it. When Fauci said everybody told him that it wasn't going to function. It's interesting though that the committee has documents and in the documents they have EcoHealth Alliance. This is a group that got the money that took it to Wuhan. They have EcoHealth alliance sending notes back to the NIH saying thank you for lifting our gain of function pause. So they were paused. The government quit funding gain of function between 2014 and 2016. They thanked them for lifting their pause on the same research that Fauci said was never gained function. So how do you lift a pause in funding for a project that was never gained a function if it was never again a function? So we've got evidence like that. But ultimately, once we've interviewed everybody, we will get to Anthony Fauci. That will be within a month or two. And we'll be having him come in and testify.

[Buck Sexton]

In terms of that testimony, what are you hoping to be able to get final answers from Foushee on? And given the Senator Paul, given the preemptive pardon that he was given, which is still pretty remarkable when I say that out loud that that even happened, what are you hoping the final disposition of this whole situation will be?

[Rand Paul]

You know, you realize that the preemptive pardon, where they don't even list your crime that he's pardoned for anything, stealing, you know, larceny, grand larceny, assault, you name it, he's pardoned for anything he could have done over a 10 year period. It's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I've never ever heard of a pardon. It's preemptive and also Includes any possible crime he committed over a 10 year period. I don't have high hopes that he's going to be ultimately held criminally responsible, but I think it's important that history judges him accurately and harshly. He made a decision that led to the million millions of people dying, basically a decision to fund a lab that was not up to safety standards and fund research that was incredibly dangerous. We also are concerned that this kind of research still goes on. So the President came out in the last day or so with a pause once again on gain of function research, importantly, not just in our country, but a pause on all funding we do around the world. Because of course, you know, Uncle Sam funds everybody's research lab everywhere in the world. And some of these, some of this, some people conjecture Anthony Fauci farmed out because he wanted less scrutiny. So he wanted, you know, for example, some of the most gruesome stuff that was done on beagles was done in Tunisia. They did in Tunisia, hoping that their sensibilities about sewing their eyelids open and infecting them with sand fleas and then cutting their larynx out so you couldn't hear the dogs cry, that there'd be less sensibility for that somewhere else other than the United States. But same way with gain of function, we think some of it was farmed out. We need to know the degree of this and we need to get to the bottom of it. We're also very concerned with a couple of labs near Fort Detrick. Kennedy closed one down and the media reported he was anti science. I heard the accurate story from Jay Bhattachary. The accurate story is someone's hazmat suit was purposely cut in one of the areas dealing with Ebola and different very dangerous viruses. So getting that kind of disease out of a lab if he were to have gotten infected, is incredibly dangerous. And so next to that lab is an nih, no, a DHS lab, Department of Homeland Security, that we now have reports are doing experiments aerosolizing Ebola. We think that somebody, you know, somebody representing the taxpayer and the citizens of the country ought to be able to take a look at these labs and find out what experiments are doing. And really should we be doing some of this?

[Clay Travis]

I think both. All of this you just said is really important because I think it answers two questions. One, it is backward looking in the context of Fauci should be seen as a villain of history and his full trajectory of stories and lies should be analyzed for years to come. That's backwards looking prospectively, as you just Laid out. The reason why this matters is if China created Covid, which I think it's quite clear that they did, partly based on having gain of function, access to American taxpayer dollars, we should be massively concerned about, as you just laid out, whatever the next iteration of the virus that could be created is, because it could end up far more deadly than anything that we dealt with with COVID I think that's kind of a synthesis of all of this for people out there who would say, okay, why are we still talking about COVID Well, you.

[Rand Paul]

Know, the next virus could be avian flu. Avian flu has a 50% death rate. Coronavirus, or Covid, was less than 1%. So avian flu currently, can you. Can a human can get it from chickens or from birds, but it doesn't go human to human. But there are experiments trying to get it to go human to human, mammal to mammal, through the air. These have been funded by nih. This is the kind of stuff that has to be discussed. Is it a death wish for humanity for someone to try to get avian flu and make it more transmissible among humans? I think we should be shouting this from the rooftops. This kind of research should not occur and the taxpayer shouldn't pay for it. But I don't know that we've actually gotten to that point yet. The Trump administration's ban, at least temporary or maybe longer on this is a good step. I have legislation that would do this. We actually have gotten bipartisan support. I passed it out unanimously at a committee last Congress. Do it again in the next month or so, and then we're hoping it can be included in some kind of legislation that's going to pass soon. But this would actually let President Trump appoint a panel of scientists who. And importantly, these scientists would not be ones who get NIH grants. So they can't be bribed to have an opinion. They will be independent voices, but experts in their field, and they will examine all government research, all classified and unclassified documents, and they will give their opinion on whether it should be funded and they will have the ability to stop funding. It will be a powerful committee, but it won't be a total ban. It would be. We're going to look at case by case. The reason you need that is if you just ban it, and then the next people come in and say, well, that's not going to function. That's what Anthony Fauci did said, oh, yeah, we were, we were had special safety for getting a function, but this wasn't gain of function. Anthony Fauci to this day still argues that the research in Wuhan that led to the death of six to 10 million people, he said that wasn't gain of function, which nobody else believes other.

[Buck Sexton]

Than Anthony Fauci speaking to Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Senator, on President Trump today, he spoke about the Houthis. I think he said there's a deal that they have now. Essentially it's please stop bombing us and we'll stop blowing up ships. But the Houthis are an extension and an allied with Iran. There's a lot of talk right now about one of kind of, I think you could say, a rare disconnect or disagreement at the senior levels of some of the Trump personnel. And it has to do with Iran and what we should do about Iran and its nuclear ambitions going forward. How do you see that? Where do you think Trump is on this, and where would you like to see this go?

[Rand Paul]

You know, I'm encouraged by the announcement today. And Trump shows great strength and they back down. So I think that is a good thing. And my hope is that we can get to a point where international shipping is safe to go around the bend there and up through the Suez with regard to Iran, my hope is that we can move forward. And this is where Trump is different than some of the neoconservatives. The neoconservatives never want to get to the next step of negotiations. So Trump goes in with a firm hand, but he does get to the next step of negotiation. He did it with North Korea. Didn't necessarily work out, but most of the neocons, from Hillary Clinton to Bill Kristol, would have never talked to North Korea. They would never talk to an Iran. Ultimately, getting to the point where we talk to them is good because really, the only realistic way of stopping them from getting a nuclear weapon is in all likelihood through diplomacy. I don't think you can bomb away their nuclear. I don't think once they have enriched uranium, you know, a cup full of uranium enriched to 95 or 98% is probably enough for a bomb. You know, you. Once you get six or eight or ten cupfuls of uranium, you're missed to that point. You have the rest of the technical knowledge to do it. You know, you can hide that thousands of feet below the ground where no bomb can get to. So, you know, I don't want that to happen. We want to stop it, but ultimately it has to be both stick and carrot. And so ultimately you have to talk to people and you have to. This is the same thing we should be doing with Russia. You know, they're wanting to put more sanctions on Russia. The Lindsey Graham bill wants to put a 500% tariff on everybody who buys oil from Russia. You know what that is? That's about 40 or 50 countries buy oil and gas from Russia. A 500% tariff would be a shutdown of basically all commerce in the world. I mean, it's a terrible idea. What we should be doing instead is going to Russia and say, you want to get back in the banking system, you want to get rid of some sanctions, bombing Venezuela, and let's have a ceasefire and peace talks. I think we have the ability to offer stuff, but I think it's. I think you. We have so many sanctions already on these countries that really, to get to diplomacy and get to the peace, the peace should be offering to remove sanctions and allow Russia back into the banking world. But they have to do something real. It has to be real ceasefire and has to really ultimately be a peace plan.

[Clay Travis]

All right, I know it's a complicated topic, but I want to give you an opportunity to weigh in on tariffs and analyze this. Reports today that India might be willing to go to zero tariffs for American goods. It seems to me that there is dual arguments here. One is, you hear it from a lot of Trump people. Hey, we want to actually eliminate many of the tariffs and have more free trade. The other argument is we need to have more protectionist trade, potentially with China, other countries. How do you analyze this? What should we do? And bigger picture, how does it impact the big beautiful bill? I know that's a big question, but the tax cut bill that's currently making its way along with border security through.

[Rand Paul]

Congress right now, there's two camps on tariffs. They're all pro tariff in the Trump administration, but two camps. One is the Neanderthal camp. The Neanderthal camp says that we keep tariffs on until there's no more trade deficits. Well, you think we're ever going to get to the point where Bangladesh buys as much from us as we buy from them? Same with Vietnam. We're a very, very rich country. And part of a trade deficit is when you're richer, you buy more stuff from other people than they buy from you. So it's just. That's a ridiculous Neanderthal sort of argument. The other camp says, well, we want reciprocal agreements, we want fairness, but we'll, you know, we'd like to see lower tariffs. That's a more reasonable camp. And I've actually said, well, I'm not for the Tariffs. And I think tariffs are misguided. If Trump is able to use as a negotiating technique the ability to lower tariffs with India and they get to a much lower level than when we started, I'll be the first to compliment him on that. But realize that the tariff bill or the sanction bill that Lindsey is proposing on Russia actually would tariff because India and China are the two biggest purchasers of oil and gas from Russia. And if you put a 500% tariff, that's going the opposite way. So I don't think we're going to zero. If we pass this new Russia sanction bill, that puts a 500%. A 500% tariff is an embargo. It's almost like a declaration of war, basically. So it's a really, really, really foolish notion. But if, you know, they come up with a deal with India, I will be the first to compliment the president and say great job. You know, if he gets, if he gets lower tariffs, we'll see what happens. But I think that should be the goal really with every country and I would say even including China, because I think the moment that we have no trade with China is the moment that they become less predictable and potentially more militaristic.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator, one more for you. Only got about a minute, but I just wanted to hear you weigh in on this because I know government spending and our unsustainable debt is something been for a long time. The doge cuts. I'm hearing there's been some cuts actually made a lot of cuts advised. What do you think? Where are we on that?

[Rand Paul]

None of them actually count until they come back to Congress. So if you say you've cut spending unless it's actually booked by Congress and Congress votes on it, it doesn't really, it hasn't been transmitted or accounted for. There's supposedly a rescission package. It can be voted on by a simple majority that's coming back to US of only 9 billion. That's a pittance. That's a rounding error. I'm for it. But I'll say send us more, please. We'll see. But right now we have, we've been hearing about that for two weeks and haven't seen that. And if that gets over here and the weak need Republicans won't vote for that. Then I say, Katie, bar the door. You might as well plan on a full scale bankruptcy of the country if the Congress can't even cut 9 billion.

[Buck Sexton]

On that note, Senator Rand Paul, thank you for being with us as always, sir, we appreciate it.

[Rand Paul]

Thank you.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, yeah, hopefully. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. He's right, by the way, on the numbers and he knows it. And always such a good conversation with the senator from Kentucky. Few nonprofit organizations can make this claim. 350,000 lives saved. But that's exactly what Preborn has done over the 20 years of its existence. The Preborn clinics nationwide welcome pregnant moms into their facilities when that decision is being made. Life or abortion. And here's what Preborn does They welcome in all those moms. They give them love, support, attention, care and a free ultrasound. Because when that mom meets the tiny life growing inside of her. I just went through this with my own boy going to those ultrasound check ins with my wife. It's incredible seeing that little heartbeat. And when mom sees that little heartbeat, the discussion is so much easier for oh yeah, life for my unborn baby. Preborn is on saving lives day in and day out. This way they do it with just $28 expense per ultrasound. 28 bucks. You could save a life with $28 of donation to Preborn. Some of you have very fortunate financial situations and you can do $280 or even more. Whatever you can spare Preborn will use for this incredible mission of saving tiny babies. To donate securely, dial 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250. Say baby or visit preborn.com buck preborn.com b u c K sponsored by Preborn.

[Clay Travis]

Keep up with the biggest political comeback in world history on the Team 47 podcast. Clay and Buck highlight Trump replays from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Want to keep your personal number private, but still stay connected? With line 2 you can get a second phone line right on your device with a super simple app. And no need for another phone. Whether it's for online shopping, dating or shielding your main number from spam, Line two is an easy way to manage it all. Ready for peace of mind without breaking the bank call, text block and more for only $9.99. Get started with line2.com audio or download line2 in any app store today. Line 2, your second line. Simplified in the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran Contra affair.

[Buck Sexton]

The things that happened were so bizarre.

[Rand Paul]

And insane I can't begin to tell you.

[Buck Sexton]

Please do.

[Clay Travis]

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rand Paul]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.