Hour 3 - Secure America or Die

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 3 - Secure America or Die
Date: June 10, 2026
Guests: Ann Coulter, Senator Rand Paul
Main Theme: Border security, criminal justice, media credibility, election integrity, and current conservative priorities

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Episode Overview

This hour of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show zeroes in on the latest national controversies and legislative actions. Buck Sexton hosts solo, joined by commentator Ann Coulter and Senator Rand Paul, dissecting the aftermath of a high-profile criminal case (the Carmelo Anthony verdict), the evolving crisis at the US border, media upheavals at CBS and CNN, urban crime control, and the Republican legislative agenda. With their trademark candor and humor, the hosts frame these issues in the context of culture, law, and the future of America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Carmelo Anthony Case & Racial Dynamics

Timestamps: [02:35]–[10:27], [41:49]–[45:22]

• Ann Coulter’s Take: Coulter expresses surprise that, compared to past cases (like O.J. Simpson), public support for Carmelo Anthony (accused of killing a white student) was relatively muted. She suggests a double standard in how racial groups respond to criminal defendants and argues that the “white guilt bank” has been closed since the O.J. verdict:

  • “One great thing about being white is we don’t have to instantly take the side of any white criminal. I think there’s only one group that does that.” — Ann Coulter [03:24]
  • She contrasts the Anthony case with Jake Gardner (white bar owner) and Derek Chauvin, criticizing widespread media narratives.

• Media Portrayal: Buck Sexton and Coulter discuss how the media perpetuates stereotypes when covering interracial crimes and reference infamous cases like Duke Lacrosse and Trayvon Martin.

  • “It’s always the Duke Lacrosse case...they’ve got their lacrosse stick in one hand and a bottle of Chardonnay in the other.” — Buck Sexton [10:22]

• Listener Reactions: Several listeners and callers express both agreement and dissent with the hosts, leading to Buck defending the importance of including critical voices, even on contentious issues [22:43], [41:49].

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2. Media Critique: CBS, CNN, and the State of Journalism

Timestamps: [10:27]–[14:25]

• Scott Pelley & Network Changes: Coulter and Buck lampoon CBS anchor Scott Pelley’s “pompous” attitude and the left’s reaction to new leadership at CBS (Barry Weiss) and CNN.
  • “He said what she is doing to 60 Minutes is like watching a spouse be murdered.” — Buck Sexton [12:13]
  • Ann calls the hysteria over Barry Weiss and moderate Republicans like Susan Collins “delusional,” pointing out how even centrist or left-leaning figures are painted as far-right.

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3. Urban Crime & Progressive Policies

Timestamps: [14:25]–[17:22], [15:18]

• Crime Reduction: Buck mentions significant drops in murder rates in D.C. and Memphis post-Trump policies, questioning liberals’ resistance to federal law enforcement aid in cities like Chicago.
• Coulter’s Analysis: She attributes liberal crime policy to an ideological obsession with releasing criminals, citing the success of Rudy Giuliani’s policies and the generational effects of treating minority voters as political children.
  • “Liberals just want to release criminals. It’s psychological.” — Ann Coulter [15:18]

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4. Election Integrity and California “Cheating”

Timestamps: [16:27]–[17:39], [31:56]

• Mail-In Ballots and Fraud: Coulter outlines her concerns about election integrity, specifically the risks of statewide “cheating” via mass mail-in ballots and so-called harvesting in California. She claims the system is susceptible to illegitimate voting by non-residents and even “illegals.”
• Structural Barriers: She argues Republicans don’t contest the process enough because CA is essentially a one-party state.

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5. Senator Rand Paul: Secure America Act & Policy Proposals

Timestamps: [25:10]–[37:29]

• Border Security Legislation:

  • Senator Paul celebrates the Secure America Act, signed by Trump, for providing increased funding for ICE and Border Patrol, marking a milestone in partisan-driven border security.
    • “This is going to be President Trump’s largest achievement...controlling the border.” — Sen. Rand Paul [25:37]
  • He proposes tighter controls on welfare eligibility for immigrants, criticizing exceptions for refugees and noting long-term dependency rates.

• Welfare Reform & Fraud:

  • Paul pushes for stronger enforcement and defunding avenues for welfare fraud, lamenting how even some Republicans resist tightening these rules.

• Six Penny Plan (Budget Cuts):

  • Paul introduces a sweeping budget-balancing idea: a simple across-the-board 6% cut to federal spending.
    • “You cut everything 6%. If there are things you really like, cut others more, but on average 6% and we could balance.” [30:01]

• Election Law Reform:

  • Discusses the Save America Act to require stricter ID and citizenship checks for voting, lamenting Democrat resistance to “common sense” safeguards and expressing concerns about unregulated mail-in balloting.

• Iran Negotiations:

  • Paul outlines his stance on Iran: favoring a verifiable deal where Iran gives up enriched uranium in exchange for trade, arguing it's necessary to negotiate with adversaries, not just allies.
    • “You don’t make deals with good people...if we receive the enriched uranium.” [35:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The white guilt bank closed after O.J.” — Buck Sexton [06:03]
• “People were so shocked — black people were thrilled [about the O.J. verdict], and I mean, they knew he was guilty. This was just a retaliation.” — Ann Coulter [08:55]
• “This is the first time we’ve done border patrol and border security through a partisan means...with only Republican votes.” — Sen. Rand Paul [25:37]
• “If you cut everything 6%, you can balance the budget.” — Sen. Rand Paul [30:01]
• “If you’re looking for hope, strength, or simply a reminder that you’re not alone, intouch.org is there for you.” — Buck Sexton (frequent sponsor mention)

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Listener and Call-In Highlights

• [41:49–45:22]: Listener and caller segments reflect national divisions on self-defense, policing, and culture-war terms like “Karen.”
  • Buck jokes about a male “Karen”: “What do you call a male Karen? A ‘Care-Him’? A ‘Ken’?” [41:49]

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Episode Structure & Flow

• 0:00–2:35: Commercials and sponsorships
• 2:35–17:39: Main guest segment: Ann Coulter
  • In-depth on Carmelo Anthony case, media bias, urban crime, election integrity
• 22:28–25:10: Listener mail, call-ins, ads
• 25:10–37:29: Main guest segment: Senator Rand Paul
  • Legislation breakdown, budget, welfare, border security, Iran
• 41:49–46:46: Closing thoughts, listener calls, cultural quips
• 46:46–end: Ads and show wrap

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Summary Takeaway

This episode captures the intersection of law, media, and politics as seen through a conservative lens. Using high-profile cases as a springboard, the conversation critiques progressive criminal justice and media narratives, extols Trump-era legislation on border security, and calls for tough choices on government spending and electoral integrity.

If you missed the show:
You’ll hear candid, sometimes provocative takes on America’s race relations, crime, media upheavals, and election security — with both humor and gravity, guest perspectives from Ann Coulter and Senator Rand Paul, and a window into the policy and culture flashpoints driving the 2026 political conversation.

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Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Ann Coulter]

Mom, can I have Lingokids?

[Buck Sexton]

Dad, Lingokids, please. When did we become the Lingokids House? No idea.

[Ann Coulter]

Last week it was Dinosaurs, this week it's Lingokids.

[Buck Sexton]

Why Lingokids?

[Ann Coulter]

Because it's the best thing ever. You can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.

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[Ann Coulter]

So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Rainbow cakes.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

third hour clay and Buck kicks off. Now we're joined by our friend Ann Coulter, 13 time New York Times bestselling author. Unsafe Is her substack. Go subscribe Bill's got a great podcast she's doing over there. Ms. Coulter, always a pleasure. A lot of news to dive into with you. Can I just. First, the Carmelo Anthony case. Are you at all surprised that people dug in on this one the way that they did? Given that it seemed like the facts were so clear from the beginning and only further verified from multiple eyewitness testimony, I don't see how this could. Why are people disputing the outcome here when it seems like it should be so obvious that this was the only just outcome?

[Ann Coulter]

Yes, 100% agree with you. And was I surprised? Well, that's my gift. I'm always surprised by behavior from the left. You know, a big line used to be, if everything could be exactly the same, how would you like to be to grow up black? And I've always said, well, one great thing about being white is we don't have to instantly take the side of any white criminal. I think. I think there's only one group that does that. My column is at least in part about the Carmelo Anthony case this week. And I'm glad to say that apparently the group of supporters Carmelo Anthony had was. Was relatively small. I don't think this is. This does not rise to the level of the response to the O.J. case. So I don't know, maybe we have advanced in this country. It seems like some really nutty black people standing outside the courthouse and saying really heinous things. But, you know, there are a lot of nutty white people. You do not see them taking the side of. Of whites who kill blacks, even when it's a justified killing. Like with Jake Gardner, the bar owner who was put in a chokehold during a BLM protest. And white people just en masse turned against him, evicted him, disavowed him, the white DA cleared him, and then. And then assigns a black prosecut to go get them. So Jake Gardner ends up committing suicide. I mean, even Derek Chauvin and Kim Potter, the police who killed black men, those were accidents. That was not an intentional. I'm plunging a knife into your heart. This was in the process of making an arrest to a resisting felon. And what's another one? Oh, there was the white Hispanic. What was his name?

[Buck Sexton]

Zimmerman.

[Ann Coulter]

Zimmerman, yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Someone yelled Trayvon outside the courthouse. Yes, Trayvon Martin.

[Ann Coulter]

Yeah, Trayvon.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, that one.

[Ann Coulter]

I think it's a little different when someone's knocked you down and is bashing your head into the concrete to claim self defense than when someone pushes you.

[Buck Sexton]

Pushes you. I went to a pretty upscale Catholic school. And there was a lot of shoving and no plunging of knives into the center of people's chests. And that's a darn good thing. But can you explain? Because I've cited this on the show before your. I forget which book you did this in, but I remember it. I remember like, yep, that's true. The OJ Verdict and the white guilt bank being closed.

[Ann Coulter]

Yes, yes, that's sort of the. It's my book mugs racial demagoguery from the 70s to Obama. And it goes through a lot of the wild cases from Manhattan when we were kids, you especially, I mean, it was like it is today. But I thought it went away after the O.J. verdict. You know, every case would be a mini George Floyd case. And then the facts would turn out to be the opposite of what the New York Times had been slapping on its front page for six weeks or months. And the correction would run on page A18 like they were just going to whisper to you, oh, yeah, everything we were telling you about that wasn't true. And then the OJ Verdict came. And people who aren't alive for that don't realize what a shock to the system this was. I mean, throughout America, in Burger Kings, at the prestigious Howard University Law School on the Oprah show, on college campuses, on high schools that were being filmed almost in unison, black people erupted in cheers.

[Buck Sexton]

When in my school, I remember it very, very pointedly in my school, some of the black students and started running around the entire school just yelling at everybody, in your face and like, laughing all over the school. And by the way, no one did anything about it. The deans. No one did anything.

[Ann Coulter]

Yes, yes. Well, I mean, as a general matter, the liberal approach to making up for slavery and, and Jim Crow, which I agree with, the concept of treating black people like children, I think is not working out that well. They are responsible adults with agency ought to be responsible for their own reaction. But there is just so much of an impulse in academia, among Democratic politicians, and certainly overwhelmingly in the media to treat black people like children. And, you know, think about raising a child. You spoil a child, you're not going to get a well adjusted, you know, responsible adult. But that, that is the overwhelming approach liberals have had. Well, that ended with the OJ verdict. At least it ended for about decade, maybe 15 years. Then we get Giuliani. One of the great things, I mean, it was the great. It was the best thing, you know, since the end of Jim Crow, I think, to happen to black people in America because they suddenly started being Treated like adults. And the pompous liberals going on about the legacy of racism, people, white people, were just done. It was, like I say in the book, like a subway car that doesn't work anymore. When you start crying about slavery and racism. Because people were so shocked. I mean, you talked to someone alive at that time, and everyone was just shocked to the core at how black people were thrilled. And as I think, you know, I mean, just a few years ago, which I always said at the time, black people knew he was guilty. They're not idiots. And a jurors come forward and said, oh, yeah, no, we knew he was guilty. This was just a retaliation to let off.

[Buck Sexton]

Right. Well, that was what we. We. I actually assumed at the time that the, like, the black students running around my school, they didn't think that OJ Was innocent. They were happy that they knew he was guilty and he got away with it. And, you know, at least Scott was. Was not guilty in that trial.

[Senator Rand Paul]

And.

[Buck Sexton]

And now I think, to this situation with Carmelo Anthony now. I think you're right. I think that this one, there's some very, very stupid people who are getting media attention because they're outside of this court. I mean, this. This one is not. This. This is not a close call. We have gotten some people calling in today or, Or. Or emailing in who sort of take a little bit of issue with that. But anyway, I think that that one, you know, this. This case is over and we can move on. But it is an interesting.

[Ann Coulter]

Well, if I could say, I. Yeah. In their. Maybe semi. In their defense, there's been a lot of false reporting about this. I mean, apparently it is not true that the fund. I mean, I think it's kind of embarrassing that he. That come out lo Anthony for stabbing a white kid in the heart instantly, you know, raises $600,000 yet, and still it was not spent on cognac and new houses, as I understand it. And also, I mean, I think it came out pretty clearly at trial that Carmelo Anthony was being asked politely to leave the tents that he was not supposed to be under. He wasn't a bully. White guy. It's. A white guy is always portrayed as, you know, some snobbish, preppy jerk out of a Hollywood.

[Buck Sexton]

It's all. The Duke lacrosse case. It's always the Duke lacrosse case. You know, they're just.

[Firestone Commercial Announcer]

They're good.

[Buck Sexton]

They've got their lacrosse stick in one hand and they've got a. You know, they've got a bottle of Chardonnay on the other. And they're just yelling at Consuela to go faster as she's cleaning. Like, this is the. The lie the media always creates. But you mentioned. I think you mentioned pompous liberals a second ago. This is. I just. Can we just talk about Scott Pelley for a minute here?

[Ann Coulter]

Because this guy.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, he. He actually is tweeting out from his yacht about how he appreciates, like, all the. All the respect and the love from everybody. He went in and basically told his boss stuff that you're a loser. I won't listen to you. This will get you fired.

[Commercial Announcer]

And.

[Buck Sexton]

But. But is this the end of the pompous, overpaid TV news anchor that we both grew up with, that we both had to listen to for decades?

[Ann Coulter]

I really want to encourage Scott Pell to keep doing as many interviews as possible. Oh, my gosh, he is a pompous ass, which I've always known. I've written about him in one of my columns, and doesn't really matter for what. But for being a pompous ass and being oh, so praised throughout the media, he was bravely called Donald Trump a felon because nobody's done that before. And whatever you think of Barry Weiss taking over CBS, I. I never watched CBS Anyway or 60 Minutes, but wow, boy, do I say, go, girl now. What a relief that she's taken over. They're acting like long.com.

[Buck Sexton]

they're acting like Bill O'Reilly took over. Like Barry Weiss, she was an. She was an editorial columnist at the New York Times. I mean, she's kind of a centrist Democrat, if you will. And they. They are apoplectic over there. This dude Pelly is crying when he talks about. He said it was like, what.

[Ann Coulter]

Did you.

[Buck Sexton]

Did you hear this, by the way? This was the best. He said that what she is doing to 60 Minutes is like watching a spouse be murdered.

[Ann Coulter]

No, I missed that.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes, that's a real thing.

[Ann Coulter]

I hope they all interview him. I think this is very important. And, yeah, as for, you know, Barry Weiss, this is like their. The left. Hysteria over. We've got to get rid of Susan Collins in Maine. Okay, okay. Maybe Platner is a racist and beat his girlfriends and makes fun of dying soldiers, some of which I think is silly, as you know. Yet, and still we have to vote for him to get rid of that fascist Susan Collins. What? She's like, the most liberal Republican there is. She voted for Kavanaugh. That's the only reason I support her. But to act like Barry Weiss and Susan Collins are these fire breathing right wingers, they've lost their minds I think

[Buck Sexton]

at some level too. And they, Barry, almost has an impossible task here because just from like a media and the future of media perspective, I think cnn, there is no regaining what it was and particularly regaining trust and credibility. I think that ship has sailed. Or do you think that there is some 2.0 version if it really gets. Because you know, she's in charge of that now too, which is hilarious.

[Ann Coulter]

I know that'll be great. No, I mean I kind of wonder about both CBS News and CNN since I don't think I know anyone under the age of 50 who owns a television set. So I'm not sure what this, I mean having lived through as you did, the end of magazines which were huge business in New York and pretty much the end of newspapers. I mean these star reporters out at various other than the New York Times and the Washington Post with its sugar daddy Jeff Bezos, newspapers are done over magazines, all the glossies, Rolling Stone and gq and they're done, done, done. And having lived through the end of one industry, I don't know, I kind of see the writing on the wall with cbs, ABC and NBC. Nothing to say nothing of cnn, Fox News and msnbc. But I guess we'll find out.

[Buck Sexton]

We will. What, what's the podcast on for this weekend? Your column is on partially Carmelo Anthony, tell everybody where they can go find it.

[Ann Coulter]

Yes, that'll be on my subject ann coulter.subsack.com by tonight or tomorrow runs in various newspapers and will be on Ann Coulter.com but if you sign up for my substack, it'll go right into your email box and that'll go up in a couple of hours. It's, you know, this week in hate crimes.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh wow. Just, just real quick before we let you go ahead, do you feel, I feel like the, the thing that the administration is not Trump mentioned it today during the press conference. Not talking about enough. They've brought down, I was just in D.C. the murder rate in D.C. is down like 60%. The murder rate in Memphis is down 70%. What is the liberal argument for Chicago to not work with federal law enforcement to deal with their murder rate at this point? Like what is,

[Ann Coulter]

is a very strange obsession that I, that I talk about in the book you just mentioned, mugs. I mean liberals, they, they want to release criminals. They are just desperate to release criminals. And we saw it when after O.J. mayor Rudy Giuliani came in and instantly dropped the murder rate to such an extent that when he ran for reelection, the New York Times itself endorsed him and made fun of Ruth messenger, who was running against him for claiming that crime wasn't better. And the New York Times officially, editorially had to say, are you out of your mind? Other cities imitated Rudy Giuliani's policies, and in those cities, the crime came down. And other cities just crossed their arms and listened to the liberal progressives, like the ones who are probably going to be the next mayor of, of Los Angeles, that. No, we need more community outreach and activists and the DA Of New York. Oh my gosh, no. Liberals just want to release criminals. It's, it's a psychological clay and I

[Buck Sexton]

have to do like, we got to do like a long form sit down with you because I always have more. Can you give me just a quick fire on this one in la Are they cheating or are they just that many crazy people in L. A?

[Ann Coulter]

Oh, I'm so glad you asked. That was the other thing I was thinking writing about this week. I may do it next week. No, it is massive statewide cheating. I am so rooting for Steve Hilton. He does have Sergey Brin behind him because Sergey Brin is dating a MAGA influencer, something I talked about on my Rumble on Subs video this week. She's the woman who may save California because Sergey's given Hilton enough money to try to reduce the cheating. But because California is a one party state, Republicans don't bother catching the cheating or changing the cheating. The main thing is, as I think people are familiar with from 2020, is having these mail in ballots. They are sent to every, quote, registered voters, voter, including registered voters at one time from a decade ago, who have moved, who have died. These, these, these ballots are just floating all over the state, other people, and

[Buck Sexton]

they have illegals, they have illegals being paid and to pick them up. We found that out from Steve Hilton himself. So I mean, that's just crazy. They're able to just go get them and you can put.

[Ann Coulter]

I was just gonna say it's baked into the system before you even get to counting the votes.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, crazy. Crazy. Ann coulthard.subsack.com, go check it out, guys. And thank you so much. When Clay's back, we'll have you back.

[Ann Coulter]

Thank you. Good to talk to you, Buck.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Ann Coulter]

Mom, can I have Lingokids?

[Buck Sexton]

Dad, Lingokids, please. When did we become the Lingokids house? No idea.

[Ann Coulter]

Last week it was dinosaurs. This week it's Lingokids.

[Buck Sexton]

Why Lingokids?

[Ann Coulter]

Because it's the best thing ever. You can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.

[Commercial Announcer]

With more than 4,000 interactive games, songs and shows, LingoKids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids.

[Ann Coulter]

So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs, rainbow kids,

[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

Let's get to. Well, we're gonna have Senator Rand Paul with us shortly talking about the big bill that Trump signed this morning. Kentucky Senator Rand Paul will be with us. He was in the Oval today about the Secure America act talking about that. But we got a talk back here. Dustin from Greensboro, North Carolina, play it.

[Ann Coulter]

Hey, Buck. Did your call screener stay out with Clay today because y' all are letting some trash in.

[Buck Sexton]

Hey, you. You stay. You lay off my producer Greg. He's been on the phones today. He's doing a great job. I sometimes am going to lean especially on when we have a contentious topic or we have something here that people are very passionate about. I want sometimes those voices who disagree, whether it's a live call or a talk back to get on the air here you so you know we can have a fulsome, well rounded conversation about all of it. So there's going to be people that disagree, obviously and I want to hear from them too. I mean I disagree the most with the guy who said, you know, that he hates all Karens, whatever. I think I, first of all, I don't even like that term. I think it's often kind of an anti white woman term that's thrown around. You only hear white women being called Karens. And so I don't really, I actually generally would stay away from using the term, although I would use it in the praise sense of I think sometimes it's a woman of any color who stands up and says, hey, can you guys. Because it's usually guys being disrespectful. Can you guys, you know, keep it down or be a little more respectful. And I think that's, I think that's an important thing and a good thing. We'll talk to Senator Paul here momentarily. Business owners know that carrying business insurance is a very necessary part of doing business. But like anything else, your business requires having a real understanding of what doing you're covered for and not should be the easiest part of the purchase. But sometimes that's just not the case. Super sure is a company that's now changing all of that. If your company has more than 25 employees, whether you're the owner, CFO or HR manager, it can just be too complex to buy a policy online. You want to talk to someone and understand what you're buying. Super sure is the super agency built for business owners. It's licensed in every state for your business insurance and employee benefits with year round support for you and your team. At super sure.com buck you can access tools like the Fine Print Facts tool so you know exactly what's going on with your policies. In plain English, it's an amazing, amazing thing super sure has got going on. Go to super sure.com buck supershore.com Buck paid for by Super Sure Insurance Agency LLC, a licensed insurance agency. We are joined by Kentucky Senator Rand Paul. He was in the Oval Office today while Trump was signing the Secure America Act. Senator, always appreciate you stopping by.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Thanks for having me Buck. Great to be with you.

[Buck Sexton]

So the significance of this. Let's start with what you saw in the Oval this morning. President Trump was there signing it. So we've got funding for ice, funding for Border Patrol. This is clearly going in the right direction. What does it mean? And do you think that the, the policy initiative is going to get kicked up again? Rather the the impetus to do more on immigration enforcement, because it feels to some like there's been a bit of drift from it.

[Senator Rand Paul]

You know, I think this is going to be President Trump's largest achievement in the Republican Congress's largest achievement, and that is controlling the border. I think the people spoke in the election, but also just the evidence of perhaps as many as 8 million people coming in during the Biden administration and then going to zero. So I think that is a. Is a big deal. This is the first time we've done of border patrol and border security, though, through a partisan means. Reconciliation is a simple majority way of getting around the filibuster rules. We did that, but with only Republican votes. So this is a first. But I think it's also something that President Trump will be remembered for, and it's also a large reason why I think people aren't trusting the Democrats. Now. I think there's something that we can push on top of this. What I've been saying is not only do we need a wall to keep people from coming into the country, we need a wall around our welf. So we passed years ago and said, oh, if you come into the country as an immigrant, you're ineligible for welfare for five years. But then they made all these exceptions. They said, oh, if you have a special visa, so if you came from Afghanistan, Iraq in the last because of the wars, you can get welfare. If you came in as a refugee from Somalia, you can get welfare. But then when we measure this, like the Somalis, it's like 85 to 90% on welfare for over 10 years. So I think we need now to move on to saying, yes, we're controlling the border, but we need to control the, you know, put a wall around the welfare state so these people aren't able to come in. You know, the American dream should be about jobs, not coming here to get welfare.

[Buck Sexton]

It's astonishing, Senator Paul, when we start to look into just how much, or rather how large the fraud is and how many dollars are going into this, it feels like it's just endless. It's a black hole. We're never gonna find every dollar, but it feels like we're just scratching the surface as well. Do you feel like J.D. vance as the vice president, and I guess he probably wouldn't want to be called the fraud czar, but you know what I mean? This is. His mandate, is to find this stuff. Are you hopeful that there will be reform and change, not just on the executive side in terms of prosecution, but is there a role here For Congress, for the Senate to act.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Well, yeah, I'm excited that the administration is looking at this and trying to call back and arrest and put these people in jail. But the other side is the funding source. So if someone's ripping off 20% of the product, you need to cut the spending by 20% or more. So I've introduced a couple of amendments to say that refugees should be ineligible for welfare. And I forced these to a vote. It's not easy because the powers that be don't want to vote on these things. But the two times that I've forced this vote, I've got about 20 to 24 Republicans supporting ending welfare for refugees, but I get about 30 of the establishment voting for it. Now. All the Democrats are for it. Every Democrat is unified in being for welfare for refugees. But even the Republicans, you know, I'm having trouble. So if you really want to root out fraud, you got to defund it. The interesting thing about refugee welfare is we allocate money every year for it and some of it is stored up. So we have 26 billion in account. We keep putting about 4 or 5 billion in it every year, but they're not spending it, which is good. But I say bring that back, let's go ahead and just claw it back. Yesterday they were promoting a new spending bill on the floor. I said, well, why don't we take the 26 billion we have in this refugee welfare fund that hasn't been spent and let's go get rid of the fund and put it towards something of better use. And the problem in Washington is they love spending money, but they don't ever love trying to find pay for. But I think Congress has to do something. If you eliminate some fraud this year, it'll come back next year unless you give the fraud less money.

[Buck Sexton]

Tell me about this six penny plan that I've seen you sharing on on X. And you point out accurately obviously that we've been spent $40 trillion into the hole with this deficit, which is just mind blowing. I remember what was it at the when the Tea Party was concerned about spending. And that was right when you came into office, if I remember Senator Paul, it's like 10 trillion or something. I mean it was 8 trillion, it was way less. So here we are.

[Senator Rand Paul]

The short history of it is amazing. Under George W. Bush, the debt went from 5 to 10 trillion, it doubled. Under Barack Obama it went under eight years, went from 10 to 20 billion, doubled again under the first Trump administration, went from 20 to 28. Under the Biden, it went from 28 to 36 and now we're up to 40. So we're on course to do about 8 trillion more even under a Republican administration. So this is a program, a process of accumulation of debt that is just completely out of control. So what I proposed is often Democrats or liberal people in the press will say, oh, yeah, you're for doing it. What are you going to do? How are you going to balance the budget? So I looked at it and said, well, this is how you do it. You cut everything 6%. Now, if you looked at everything and you said, oh, we don't want to cut everything 6%. There's some things that we like. Then you cut things, some things more, but on average you'd cut things 6%. And I try this argument out sometimes with different special interest groups. So one big special interest group that comes up here are families of member that have Alzheimer's. My family, my wife's family. Just about everybody knows somebody who has Alzheimer's and it's an emotional thing and you want to cure. And so I say, well, yeah, government can be a part of it, of this, but we're 2 trillion short. And Alzheimer's research got 100 million last year. I'm making up that number. I can't tell you the exact number right now, but let's say they got 100 million last year. Would you be okay if we gave them 94 million this year because we're out of money. And every one of these family members that really wants this research is emotionally involved in this, nod their head yes, and say, well, of course we would if it were for the good of country. But that never happens up here. People rant and rave. The special interest groups say you hate old people and you don't want to do anything for disease. And my response to them is, I aspire to be an old person. I'm getting there. I'm all for doing the research, but I'm for just saying we should spend what comes in, which I think is not that unreasonable.

[Buck Sexton]

Speaking of Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Senator, I know you're a, you're a proponent of the Save America act, right? So Secure America was this morning with the border and funding for that. You said through reconciliation. Save America has to do with election integrity, voting procedures. And Democrats oppose this. There's also this situation in California, and I know these are separate but related issues, right, of people showing up and you're allowed to show like a gym membership as your registration or you can show, you know, like basically anything, any piece of paper that says your name and you live in California is, is a lawful way to vote in the state of California at this point? Is it. Do Democrats just not want there to be any safeguards in elections really? It feels like every time there's something that looks common sense, they don't want the common sense.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Yeah, it doesn't appear so, but I also think that ultimately it's going to be a losing issue for them. I think most people are proud of their citizenship, proud of their country, and don't want their vote to be diluted by people who are not here legally. But it's more than just citizenship. It is also the mail in balloting. And there's more than one way to go about this. We should keep fighting it as a federal issue. We should keep fighting it as a party issue that our party is for lawful citizens to vote and that's it. But we should also fight it state by state. And this is something that nobody else seems to be talking about. For example, Arizona, you have to have proof of citizenship. So we check. We've got that for Arizona. It's a battleground state. We still lose it every year. I think the main reason we lose it is they allow people to get 10 ballots in the mail. You don't have to ask for the ballots. And then eventually somebody shows up at your door and says, oh, I've got one already filled out, will you sign it? And then that person takes and turns in your vote for you. You've got to get rid of that. And the national party, we raise hundreds of millions of dollars, even billions of dollars. We should go in and fight referendum in states that have referendum and we should get rid of the mail in balloting because inherently it's harder to verify you are who you say you are when you get something mailed in. And this whole idea of harvesting them and people collecting them and going door to door I think is repugnant, you know, to the idea of the way elections should be run. So, yeah, we should fight it nationally, fight it as an issue, try to win elections, but we should also go in state by state. I mean, there's a half a dozen Republican states that are doing mail in balloting and eventually they're going to become Democrat states if they continue to allow them.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Paul, what's your sense of how close the administration is? I know you're not personally involved in the negotiations with Iranians and intermediaries to bring this thing to a conclusion, but what's your sense of how close it is to that given that President Trump said today, I think we're gonna hit him again. And are you optimistic that this can be settled in time to let but gas prices normalized to where they were before this conflict, so that that's not a big drag on the GOP in the midterms.

[Senator Rand Paul]

The President said today, you know, I was at the White House at the press conference. He says the deal's done, it just needs to be signed. So I don't know. That begs the question, are the Iranians going to sign it or not? What I would say is this. It's going. We have obliterated them. We have entirely. Our military completely obliterated them. We won the war. But you still have to negotiate with them, because unless you're willing to occupy the country and forcibly dig the uranium back out of the ground, the enriched uranium is going to require a diplomatic deal. And I think it's something you don't have. People say, oh, you can't trust them. Well, this would be verified by them actually handing it over. But what I would offer to them, and you're going to have to offer something, is I would offer restoration of trade, which means we get rid of sanctions against trade. We bring them back into the world's economy. If they give up the 440, 40 kilograms of enriched uranium, it all leaves the country, and then they sign a statement that they won't continue to pursue nuclear weapon. Now, people say, you can't trust them. They're terrible people. This and that, all probably true, but you don't trust them on getting rid of the enriched uranium. That we will verify. And as far as whether they start up again, if they start up again, we reinstitute the sanctions and get started. We go back to stage of belligerency with them. But I think we shouldn't just offer a little. We should offer release of all the trade and restoration of trade if they will relinquish the enriched uranium and, you know, no longer pursue a nuclear weapon. And I think some in our party don't want that deal. Some in our party say, oh, we don't want negotiations. The president's wrong. You're going to sign a terrible deal. Because they think that the regime is inherently not trustworthy and they're bad people. All of that's true. But you don't make deals with good people. You don't make trails. We're not having to do a treaty with Great Britain or with Germany or other allies. It's with an adversary, and we can prove they do what they do. What they say they will if we receive the enriched uranium. So that's the deal I would offer. They give up all of the enriched uranium for release of all of the trade sanctions and then and a promise not to move forward. And the promise is has to be policed basically with verification and time.

[Buck Sexton]

Senator Paul, always appreciate you making the time, sir. Thank you so much.

[Senator Rand Paul]

Thank you.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

Dad Lingo Kids please. When did we become the Lingokids house? No idea.

[Ann Coulter]

Last week it was Dinosaur Lingokids.

[Buck Sexton]

Why Lingokids?

[Ann Coulter]

Because it's the best thing ever. We can play games with astronauts, wild animals and superheroes.

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[Ann Coulter]

So no dinosaurs and dinosaurs Lingo Kids

[Buck Sexton]

Everything kids love, download it for free.

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[Buck Sexton]

closing up shop today on Clay and Buck. Please go check out the Clay and Buck Podcast network where there are many fabulous shows for your listening enjoyment. And I'm actually going to be hanging out with Clay tomorrow a bit. But he will be golfing. But golfing for good reason. I will be on the air so it'll just be me tomorrow and then Friday as well. And then you will get a clay festival. A clay a thon. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of next week. I've got some family matters to tend to. Good things but things to take care of. So. So just want to give you that programming note. It'll be just me tomorrow and I'll be coming to you from the Palm beach area. Well, hello, Palm Beach. Very fancy. We have. Let's see here. Podcast listener Derek in Dayton, Ohio wants to talk f on the talkbacks edit. Hello. Did it understand that the jury was approved by Carmelo Anthony's lawyers? It doesn't matter what color they are. Both sides agreed to the jury. Yes, that is true. Both sides did agree to that jury and the jury reached the only reasonable verdict. This was. Sometimes these self defense issues, sometimes self defense cases can be a close call. Sometimes they can be a close call. This was not. This was a very straightforward, the facts were really not in dispute situation. And I think, yeah, this is, we can, we can move on from this case. I just think that if anything there should be a lesson from this. You know, people should stop. And, and before you go to lethal force, you have to know that you have absolutely no choice and that when you explain this to any reasonable person, they will also say, that's correct. I. You had no choice. I understand why you did what you did. And that simply is not the case here. That is absolutely not what happened. So let's see. Scott from Brunswick, Georgia, listens on WGIG G. Hit it. I would have to disagree with you just a little bit. There are definitely male Karens as well. My neighbor happens to be one. Food for thought. Okay, I mean, what do you call a male Karen? A care. Him. Producer. Mike, what do we think? No, no. Oh, a Ken. Okay, well, yeah. So anyway, a Ken. Wait, is that actually what it's called? Is that a thing? Guys, are you, are you educated? Oh, okay. You just made that up. Oh, a Kieran. A Kieran. A Ken. Okay. Yeah, no, I like a care him instead of a Karen. So yeah, dad jokes. I'm allowed to do it because I'm a dad. That's how. That's how. Those are the rules. I don't make them up. Those are the rules. John in California wants to talk. John, what's going on?

[Senator Rand Paul]

Hi. I was just gonna say under the same argument they're using that saying it was justified, his stabbing and was justified because he felt threatened. Well then wouldn't the police officers or ICE agents, would they be justified in any time somebody puts a hand on them going straight to deadly horse?

[Buck Sexton]

Interesting question, I think. Thank you so. Thank you so much, John. Law enforcement is going to be held to a higher standard. I think in those situations. Than as a general matter than the overall public will. That said, yeah, this, that's the problem with this is that if somebody touches your shoulder or shoves your shoulder and you could just stab them, it also means you could just shoot them. I mean, we live in anarchy if that's the case. Okay, a shove on the shoulder, if it's met with a shove or a punch, we have people that need to be separated. You can't just go for a knife, especially under the shoulder circumstances of being in a high school like this and and all the rest of it. All right, I'll be talking to you all tomorrow. Make sure you come hang out. Three hours. It'll be just the buckster. And yeah, Shield side. Life is full of challenges, but you don't have to face them alone. At InTouch.org you'll find powerful sermons from Dr. Charles Stanley, Daily devotionals, and resources designed to strengthen your faith and bring hope into your everyday life. Whether you're searching for encouragement, biblical wisdom or practical guidance, InTouch.org is here to help you grow closer to God. Discover truth that speaks to your heart. Visit InTouch.org today this July 4th, come

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Ann Coulter]

With my mom and dad living in Orange county, when we bring my five and seven year old to visit, we are sometimes in for a two hour drive that could feel oh.

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