Hour 3 - Smart. Fun. Sane.

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Hour 3: “Smart. Fun. Sane.”

Date: July 23, 2026
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this third hour, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton dive into controversy and culture, mixing serious political and cultural analysis with humor and interactive listener engagement. Highlights include the viral WNBA/Sophie Cunningham debate over women’s sports, the ongoing Caitlin Clark media firestorm, the media's hyperbolic hot takes, the impact of self-driving vehicles, debates about data centers and AI, and a critical discussion of Christopher Nolan’s new film adaptation of “The Odyssey.” Special guest Steve Dace (radio host, filmmaker) joins for an in-depth conversation on Iowa politics, culture war in filmmaking, and the state of women’s sports.

The tone throughout is irreverent, sharp, and occasionally playful, true to the hosts’ self-billed “smart, fun, sane” style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The WNBA, Sophie Cunningham, and Sports Culture Meltdown

Timestamp: 01:59 – 06:46

• Clay revisits USA Today sportswriter Nancy Armour’s controversial comparison of Caitlin Clark’s complaints about fouls to the murder of Emmett Till, reading Armour’s subsequent statement attempting to clarify her analogy.
  • “She’s doubling and tripling down… The amount of insane takes in the culture of sports that has existed so long is blowing up… all it took was one person stepping out.” – Clay Travis (03:02)
• Discussion of Sophie Cunningham’s comments opposing men in women’s sports – lauded by some listeners as “common sense” but bringing massive backlash, highlighting the ideological fracture in sports journalism.
• Listener calls and humor:
  • Allison in L.A. offers a tongue-in-cheek comment about Sophie Cunningham’s attractiveness (05:19).
  • Listener Jerry suggests endorsement deals with Sydney Sweeney’s lingerie brand (05:53), leading to witty banter about the massive potential value of celebrity branding.

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2. Viral Phrases & Listener Banter

Timestamp: 06:46 – 07:14

• Catchphrase segment, with listeners riffing on “rock out with your Grok out,” poking fun at age and AI-related ads.
  • “Can’t wait to propose to my wife that tomorrow night we stream the Lincoln assassination series with the Grok out.” – Listener Ryan (06:51)

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3. Self-Driving Cars, Risk, and Public Policy

Timestamp: 07:14 – 12:13

• Clay shares data from Axios showing Waymo robo-taxis have drastically lower crash rates than human drivers (“68% fewer police reportable crashes per mile... 85% fewer single-vehicle crashes” – 08:12), predicting insurance rates will soon shift accordingly.
• Buck expands the conversation to the infrastructure required for AI, particularly the resistance to new data centers due to energy and water concerns.
  • “This is reminding me a lot about the debate about fracking… just a complete fabrication of fear.” – Buck Sexton (10:23)
• Discussion on the hypocrisy of opposition to data centers versus, say, golf courses, which use more water.

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4. John Fetterman, Israel, and Party Identity

Timestamp: 12:13 – 15:01

• Clay speculates that Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman may flip to the GOP or go independent due to his strong pro-Israel stance, which increasingly diverges from progressive Democratic positions.
  • Plays a clip of Fetterman sharply criticizing NYC Council member Zohran Mamdani’s anti-Netanyahu proposals:
  • “Listen, you are a mayor, dude… You can’t order people to arrest anybody any more than I could… You’re a clown.” – John Fetterman (13:50)

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5. The Eternity of 9/11’s Effects

Timestamp: 15:01 – 15:56

• Clay recounts the story of firefighter Daniel Foley and his family’s sacrifice post-9/11, using Foley’s continued health struggles as an example of heroism and the importance of supporting first responders.

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6. Transgender Athletes in Women’s Sports – White House & Cultural Pushback

Timestamp: 18:00 – 19:16; 40:07 – 41:27

• Revisiting the issue of trans women competing in women’s sports following White House remarks:
  • “What they tell you is that trans women are women… But in merely having to say trans women should compete in women’s sports, there’s an admission that they are in fact different.” – Buck Sexton (18:00, paraphrased)
  • Clay and Buck poke holes in arguments for total inclusion, emphasizing the logical inconsistency of the activist position.
• Later, a press question at the White House is played (40:28), with Caroline Levitt confirming President Biden sides with the majority of Americans who think men should not compete in women’s sports:
  • “It’s completely ludicrous that anyone could support that… The backlash she [Cunningham] is receiving … is astonishing. They are clearly very out of touch with the American public on this issue.” – Caroline Levitt (40:41)

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7. Self-Driving Car Rights and Insurance Markets

Timestamp: 19:35 – 23:47

• Caller Michael expresses concern over “a Second Amendment for your right to drive a car,” fearing insurance expenses may eventually price out human drivers.
• Clay argues this shift would be a function of a free market—if driving yourself remains popular, insurance markets will compete and adapt.
  • “All insurance is, is just an algorithm… it would still apply going forward because it’s still a risk-based business.” – Clay Travis (20:23)

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8. Interview: Steve Dace – Iowa Politics, Filmmaking, & Cultural Trends

Timestamp: 23:47 – 36:38

Iowa Political Landscape

• Dace assesses Iowa’s diminished role in DNC primaries, tightly contested statewide races, and the messaging strengths of Democrat Senate candidate Josh Turek.
  • “It might just be by a couple of points.” – Steve Dace (25:11)

Nolan’s “Odyssey”: Cultural Critique & Hollywood’s Woke Lens

Timestamp: 26:00 – 30:55

• Dace, a self-described “Christopher Nolan stan,” slams Nolan’s new movie as “pathetic” and a triumph of modern “woke” deconstruction over traditional storytelling.
  • “Christopher Nolan ought to be ashamed of himself… He reduced Odysseus to a modern whiner… Ellen Page is basically the rosebud of the whole movie. She is the moral conscience… sometimes these people with their own wokeism can’t avoid stepping on their own rakes… She gives him a nice woke Spirit of the Age lecture from, ironically, hell.” – Steve Dace (26:00)
• Dace and hosts criticize modern sound mixing in movies and the current vs. classic approaches to film storytelling.

The Market for “Un-Woke” Films

Timestamp: 30:55 – 33:03

• Dace and hosts argue for a huge, untapped market for non-political, universally appealing, story-driven films:
  • “If it’s really just about telling a great story… your worldview will shine through organically… We’re figuring out [in conservative filmmaking] how that works. It’s the last place people will let you come at their worldview if you entertain them and tell a good story.” – Steve Dace (30:55)

Sophie Cunningham’s Stand

Timestamp: 33:03 – 34:55

• Dace applauds Cunningham not just for speaking out but for standing by her principled statement on women’s sports:
  • “There is a graveyard of people who have been willing to take an initial step… then with a modicum of pushback, completely buckled, particularly, frankly, too many men. So for her to stand up… that’s even more important than what she said originally.” – Steve Dace (33:43)

Caitlin Clark & the Challenge of Celebrity

Timestamp: 34:55 – 36:27

• Dace is surprised at Clark’s reticence to speak out like Cunningham; worries she’ll alienate her fanbase by seeking mainstream/media approval rather than representing the common sense stance her supporters expect.

  • “Does she become essentially the John Cornyn of the WNBA…desires the Washington Post and New York Times editorial board acceptance and alienates her own base?” – Steve Dace (35:22)

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Quotes & Notable Moments

• On the Emmett Till Analogy:

  • “The editorial staff saw a comparison of a player complaining about fouls and an analogy to the murder of Emmett Till… and thought, ‘Hey, this belongs in the sports section.’” – Clay Travis (03:40)

• On Sound Mixing in Modern Movies:

  • “You can hear a jet taking off in the background, or the music in the background, it is insanely loud. But you can’t actually hear the dialogue that the characters are engaging in. And to me, the dialogue is the most important part.” – Clay Travis (29:26)

• On the Market for Non-Woke Films:

  • “Our people have got to determine and understand… you can do way more culture-shaping and shifting in storytelling than you even can directly in politics.” – Steve Dace (32:55)

• On the Sophie Cunningham Firestorm:

  • “It seems to be the most straightforward statement of the obvious imaginable. And yet it is a revolutionary act, it seems, in our current culture. What do you make of it?” – Clay Travis (33:43)
  • “There is a graveyard of people who have been willing to take an initial step… then with a modicum of pushback, have completely buckled… So for her to stand up… that’s even more important than what she said originally.” – Steve Dace (33:43)

• On Common Sense in Women’s Sports:

  • “It’s completely ludicrous that anyone could support that… The backlash she [Cunningham] is receiving from Democrats and left wing figures is astonishing. They are clearly very out of touch with the American public on this issue.” – Caroline Levitt (White House, 40:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:59 — WNBA/Nancy Armour/Emmett Till comparison
• 05:19 — Listener jokes about Sophie Cunningham
• 06:46 — “Rock out with your Grok out” catchphrase banter
• 07:14 – 12:13 — Self-driving car safety & insurance discussion, AI & data centers
• 13:50 — John Fetterman goes after Mamdani (audio clip)
• 18:00 — Trans athletes in sports: logical dilemmas
• 19:35 — Caller on insurance & rights for human drivers
• 23:47 – 36:38 — Steve Dace interview: Iowa, The Odyssey, culture war in film, Sophie Cunningham stance, Caitlin Clark’s challenge
• 40:28 — White House response to Sophie Cunningham (audio clip)
• 41:27 — Clay and Buck react to “MAGA Barbie” labeling of Cunningham

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Listener Engagement & Humor

• Heavy use of listener calls/messages, used for both comic relief and to illustrate divergent perspectives on the big issues.
• Running jokes (“rock out with your Grok out”; “MAGA Barbie”) provide a connective thread and satirical punch.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a fast-moving, wide-ranging dialogue between hosts, listeners, and a special guest, weaving together sports controversy, political identity, AI technology, and the challenges of modern pop culture – all seasoned with wry humor and a bit of irreverence. Commentary on women’s sports, the reactive cycle of media, and the “woke” transformation of art and politics serve as the backdrop for deeper philosophical questions about common sense, courage, and cultural influence.

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Transcript

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Clay Travis]

welcome back in hour number three, Clay and Buck. We got some fun here Buck, in addition to all the fun that we have already had. Earlier in the program I read USA Today sportswriter Nancy Armour compared Caitlin Clark complaining about fouls to the murder of Emmett Till. This is real. She has released a statement on her column Bump that just came down. For those of you who do not know, Sophie Cunningham came out and said men shouldn't be able to play in women's sports. Caitlin Clark as a straight white woman has basically broken the entire wnba. The entire all of sports journalism is broken. Nancy Armour says that Caitlin Clark has too many white supremacist fans that black people are in danger and her complaining about fouls is a modern day equivalent of Emmett Till being murdered by racist in my recent column says Nancy Armour, journalist extraordinaire, I made an in artful comparison with the murder of Emmett Till. I intended to connect the issues the WNBA is currently facing with its All Star Game being hosted in Till's hometown of Chicago. I obviously did not provide enough context for that. Yes, yes, the context is the issue, Buck, she continues. However this point stands, there is a history in this country of perceived threats to white women being weaponized against African Americans and the danger that poses to black players in the league. Players have been abused online and have reported receiving death threats. That has to be taken more seriously. I sincerely regret my lack of appropriate context is overshadowing that important conversation and the action that needs to be taken by the WNBA to address address it directly for the benefit of all players. I so she's doubling and tripling down. I just the amount of in insane takes in the culture of sports that has been allowed to exist for so long is blowing up in a big way. And all it took was one person stepping out. Sophie Cunningham to call out men and women's sports. And what you're seeing is the sort of what I would say emperor without clothes analogy. A lot of other people are stepping up and this whole house of cards is collapsing all around it. So this is. We'll see what the further the fallout continues. What I would say Buck and I just tweeted out that that statement, what I would say it really speaks to is the culture because the editorial staff saw a comparison of a player complaining about fouls and an analogy being drawn to the murder of Emmett Till. And they thought to themselves, hey, you know what? This is a really good critique that belongs in the sports section of the USA Today. And I would say it's just emblematic more than anything else of sorry of the culture out there. There now are AI Grok ads based on your based on your phrase. I gotta be careful even saying it. Rock with your grok out, basically. And I am laughing at these. All right, couple of funny comments. Let's have some fun as we roll into our three buck Allison in LA listening on AM 1150 the Patriot Keib. She has this to say. Cut B to be Cunningham is so hot. I'm straight and I would go gay for her. So we had a marriage proposal and a straight woman saying she would turn gay for Sophie Cunningham. Having a good day on the show here. Jerry in New York W O R He's got a brilliant idea. Buck.

[Buck Sexton]

Cut C hey Clay and Buck, if anybody happens to drop Sophie Cunningham for endorsements, I think a fantastic idea would be to have probably soon to be billionaire Sydney Sweeney hire her for her lingerie brand. I mean, that would be the best duo since Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, maybe.

[Clay Travis]

I agree with his assessment that Sydney Sweeney is going to. She's going to be, as we have discussed, she's going to sell her lingerie brand to probably the same conglomerate that owns Victoria's Secret and all these other things for $1 billion. She's going to be.

You and I both said, I don't know if we said it on the air, but we both said, if somebody had come to us and said, sydney Sweeney starting a lingerie company, do you want to invest in that company? I would have said, take my money now. Yes.

Yep. I would have written. I would have written a sizable check for me, for sure. Yes. That. That was a very good investment.

All right, one more podcast listener, G. Fire away.

[Listener Ryan]

Well, Clay, it looks like Buck is added to the vernacular for the 40 and up crowd. In our 20s and 30s, it's sun's out, guns out. But now in our 40s and up, I guess it's rock out with the Grock out. Can't wait to propose to my wife that tomorrow night we stream the Lincoln assassination series with the Grock out.

[Clay Travis]

What if the assassination series just surges to the top of Apple's. Apple's viewership and they're like, what in the world is going on? Why is this leaking assassination thing gotten so hot? Couples everywhere, couples everywhere are streaming this at a level we've never seen before. They're gonna end up sponsored by Apple. Oh, this is amazing. Okay, so let's get people even more fired up here. Buck, I mentioned this earlier in the program I was reading this morning, getting ready for the, for the show and there is data that has come out that shows researchers, I'm reading from Axios this morning, researchers compared crash rates of human driven cars and Waymo robo taxis in San Francisco, Phoenix, Louisiana and Austin. Have you been in a Waymo yet, Buck? You have, right?

Yes, many times.

They're very popular now in Miami. They spread to a lot of different cities. They initially were in LA and San Francisco in a substantial way. Okay, what is the impact? This is pretty significant. Waymo vehicles had 68% fewer police reportable crashes per mile than human drivers in San Francisco, Phoenix, Louisiana and Austin. And Waymo had 85% fewer single vehicle crashes than human drivers. The data, I think is going to become irrefutable that it is far safer to have self driving automobiles which are iterating every day getting a little bit better than human drivers. Now the that doesn't mean you should have to use a self driving vehicle. It doesn't mean that you should be required to give up driving. Some people love driving. But what I do think will start to happen, Buck, is you will start to see insurance companies in the years ahead charging you more to be using a vehicle that you operate yourself because they're going to look at the data and say you're far more likely to be in an accident than someone who is using a self driving vehicle. And I think this data, because the AI iterates and gets better and better every day, they are making the AI better in the self driving vehicles. We had a conversation about this earlier this week. Tons of people reacting and obviously I'm using a self driving vehicle a lot in that I have a Tesla, my kids have a Tesla that they drive primarily and we're using it 95% of the time to self drive as opposed to individual drive.

Look, you know where I stand on this one and I think that once people experience it, they'll see it as a really important convenience, an option to have in a lot of cars. You're going to see more and more of it. And I would just note that these conversations that we have about this, this stuff is in process or in progress right now. This is not, oh, in 10 years something will happen. This is happening in Miami, it is happening in San Fran, in New York, in Chicago. These changes are already starting to show up in people's day to day lives. Another thing we haven't really talked about here, Clay, is the data centers argument that has been underway here, which is directly tied into AI. Self driving cars and AI are also very much interlinked. But now people are opposing these data centers that are going up all over the place because you need, you need massive computing power to support a lot of these artificial intelligence projects and companies. And so people are getting upset. Now in it was just earlier this month, Governor Hochul has an executive order pausing hyperscale data centers. So they want to do a whole, oh, we have to look at the impact on energy environment. Water usage has become a big part of this. But this is reminding me a lot about the debate about fracking, which was only, let's say 15 years ago. 15 years ago some morons got a documentary Oscar for making a movie about how fracking I think was basically just going to poison the drinking water. And we're all, you know, it was terrible for us and it just wasn't true. The whole thing was just a complete fabrication of fear and I think now with the data centers, it's one thing if you don't want a data center in your community because you want something more vibrant. You and you want to park or for city planning purposes. But the opposition to these data centers on water usage. Have you seen people start to link up.

Yes.

Data centers versus golf courses. Spoiler alert. Golf courses use a whole heck of a lot more water than all the data centers combined. And no one's trying to shut down the golf courses. So there you go.

No, I, and look, I think unfortunately what's going to happen is for states like New York, they're just making really poor decisions when it comes to the way that they are utilizing their, their every, basically every public policy choice they are making. And I think what you're creating is this divide between people who understand basic economics and want there to be growth and people who don't. And by the way, have you been paying attention to some of the numbers coming out on John Fetterman? I wanted to play this cut for people. Fetterman went after Mamdani. We've been discussing Mamdani saying in his campaign that he was going to address arrest Netanyahu when he came into New York City in September, I believe, when the UN Is scheduled to, to meet up again. And here is Fetterman. Buck Fetterman is up for election in 28. If I'm not mistaken, he won his term in 22. Increasingly, I see no way that he can remain a Democrat. Obviously, Dave McCormick, not only did Trump win Pennsylvania in 24, McCormick also was elected, knocked out the incumbent there. So there's one Republican senator. I think there's a decent chance, put that I made a bunch of predictions today, put this out there. I think there's a decent chance that Fetterman is going to flip to the Republican Party. I do. I really do. Or at least maybe independent and caucusing with the Republican Party. Listen to him call out, mom, Donnie. This is pretty aggressive. This was just earlier last night, I believe.

[John Fetterman Clip]

Listen, you are a mayor, dude. You can fix a pothole, you can take out the trash, but you can't order people to arrest anybody any more than I could. Or, you know, I could have him arrested if he goes to Pennsylvania. That's, it's a joke and he's a clown. And now he also said that Netanyahu is not welcome in New York. You know, you can't say that any more than I could say mayor, you're not, you're not welcome in Pennsylvania. So sit down. You know you're a clown and you are just going to pander to the fringe and that's part of your base. You, you know, he's that's the guy that will only criticize the prime minister or Israel, but he never criticizes Hamas. He's never criticizing Hezbollah or Iran.

[Clay Travis]

Hmm.

I just think it's going to be hard for a steadfast defender of Israel's right to defend itself to be the nominee for the Senate in 2028 for the Democrat Party. I just don't see any way in which Fetterman is going to be able to be to be the nominee. So we will see, but that's a story worth paying attention to.

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. We know that Caroline Levitt has been handling questions today from the White House press corps in the West Wing, including a question touching on the issue of Sophie Cunningham weighing in on transgender competitors in women's athletics. It's interesting, Clay, as well, because really there's a fundamental problem here. What they tell you is that trans women are women, therefore they should compete in women's sports. But yet in merely having to say trans women should be able to compete in women's sports, there's an admission that they are in fact different than women and therefore they are not just women. So this is the, the, the loop that you get into with these people. It is not in fact the case that they are.

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They are.

[Clay Travis]

They are just because they say it. Because they can't even separate the categories to create the inclusion of the categories without stating that the categories are separate. First and foremost is that everyone seeing what I'm. What I'm putting down on that one. You see what I mean?

Also, if you are not acknowledging the biology of women, why does everybody have surgery to try to look like women? The whole thing is crazy. That clip is not in yet. Let's get to a couple of calls. Michael in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Fire away.

[Caller Michael]

Hi, guys. Yeah, this is about the self driving cars and their safety advantages. I would really like A equivalent of a second amendment for the right to keep and drive a motor vehicle. The same kind of strong constitutional protection that we have for the right to keep and bear arms. Here's what I see happening is initially, yeah, you will be able to continue to own and drive your own car, but you mentioned insurance companies. Eventually it may be impossible to continue or prohibitively expensive to continue to insure a car on the road. And you can't drive a car on the road without insurance.

[Clay Travis]

Hold on, let me, let me just push back on that a little bit. Sorry. Wouldn't the insurance companies be making insurance expensive from a capitalistic perspective? Because people who are driving cars are far more likely to be in accidents than self driving cars are. If one insurance company is charging you way too much and it's just exorbitant, then somebody else would come in and say, hey, here's a better deal, right? Like I, I understand your argument of hey, I'm worried about the right to drive a car being restricted based on cost. But that would be largely the marketplace, right? If somebody's trying to say if the data does reflect, as the data reflects right now, that it's going to be far safer to have self driving cars, I. E. You're less likely to get in an accident, less likely to be severely injured, all those things, then the insurance rates would go up, right? If you have accidents, you have to pay more. If you get speeding tickets, you have to pay more. If you're a higher risk, then you pay more. And driving yourself may well end up being a higher risk than not driving. So this is a Mark, thank you for the call. But this is a market based solution to me. And if somebody's trying to charge you way too much, there should be another company created that provides a better value. I mean all insurance is, is just an algorithm, right? And whoever builds the best algorithm wake makes way more money because they're better able to analyze risk. That's the entire business. And so I think it would still apply going forward because it's still a risk based business. I want to tell you. How do you save money right now? Pure talk next three months, $15 a month. Three months, you can get 15, $15 a month on your cell phone bill and then you still have a crazy infinitely lower cost. When you compare what Pure Talk costs compared to everyone else, all you have to do to get hooked up, go find out for yourself from your phone. Right now you can keep your same phone and your same phone number. Just do £250, say clay and Buck It's a super easy switch to to make, but you can find out for yourself just how much money you can save. All you have to do again, £250, 15amonth for your first three months. You can save up to a thousand dollars over the life of a deal. £250 say clay and buck. That's £250 say clay and Buck. Truth and having Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Welcome back in Clay and Buck. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us as we are rolling through the Thursday edition of the program. We are joined now by Steve Dace. He is a highly successful radio show host. Show show host. I think you do a lot of things in Iowa, I believe, if I am not mistaken. And we're going to get into a lot of different things with him. But actually I'll start with this. We're going to get into. Sophie cunningham, the Odyssey A bunch of different stories. What is the reaction in Iowa? You've got competitive races for both the Senate and the governor's races. The Democrat Party has basically decided we're done with having our caucuses start in Iowa. Is that being received well in the state? I know that's very important to many Iowans. What is that like from your perspective?

[Steve Dace]

No, it has not been received well at all, guys. And, and we have about a quarter of a million voter registration advantage over Democrats here in the state of Iowa. But, but they have probably the two best candidates they've run in our state statewide, particularly the Senate candidate. I know there's a lot of attention on Rob sand, but the Senate candidate, Josh Turek, former gold medal wheelchair Olympian, has run very inspirational ads. I think it's really the best messaging statewide a Democrat has done. And I've not just our state, but I've seen anywhere around the country in the Trump years, really. I mean, the stuff he's hitting Trump on is kind of traditional class warfare liberal stuff and, you know, not the, the, the stuff of, you know, that that's deconstructive in nature like we've seen over the last few years in much of the Trump era. So his negatives are not very high. I think he'll be a tough beat. I think Rob Stan will be a tough beat. I think though, the metrics that we have on the ground in Iowa give us an advantage here, particularly because we did not nominate an establishment hack member of Congress that they could have nationalized our race and run against. Instead, we nominated a conservative outsider in Zach Lane who now he is free to attack them from the Right. In ways that Randy Feenster would not have been. So I still think Zach will win. Ashley Hinson I think will probably win. But I think they're going to need every ounce of that quarter of a million voter registration advantage in the current environment. It might just be by a couple of points.

[Clay Travis]

Steve, it's Buck. Appreciate you being with us. I'm. I'm still torn between whether I'm going to go mostly because I hate going to movie theaters, but that's a separate conversation. I just. Someone's always talking and I get very grumpy. But even if I was willing to go to movie theaters, I'm, I'm torn between whether I would go see the Odyssey so that I would know or that. But you've seen it. And the critique that I saw you write on, on X of it I think is very much what I would expect to feel based on what I know of the movie. But instead of just surmising, why don't you tell everybody because you saw it. What do we need to know about this? This is the cultural phenomenon of the week. I think there's more conversation about this. We'll talk about Sophie Cunningham in a second. But more conversation about this in the culture than anything else right now.

[Steve Dace]

In short, Buck, I think Christopher Nolan ought to be ashamed of himself. And I think that all you need to know is the hipster feminist who did the modern translation of the. Of the Odyssey that Nolan based much of his script off of has come out and pointed out that, you know, essentially he reduced Odysseus into just kind of a modern whiner, constantly looking for some form of affirmation and counseling for his laments and not the hero seeking after glory of the story. And that, that's. If that's coming from the feminist hipster that Nolan based his interpret interpretation off of, well, then imagine what somebody like me who puts the fun and fundamentalist thinks of the film. It is. I was blown away and I'm a Christopher Nolan, Stan. I raised a son whose dream in life until about 30 days ago was to. Was to be the next Christopher Nolan and now he won't even go see the film. Anybody who's telling you that the Ellen Page character is a minor footnote cameo done to appease academy voters for an Oscar is wrong. Ellen Page is basically the rosebud of the whole movie. I mean, she is the moral conscience of the film. She is driving Odysseus's conf, you know, his conscience the entire film. She gives him a nice woke Spirit of the age lecture from, ironically, hell. I mean, sometimes these people with their own wokeism can't afford stepping on their own rakes. That's right. Elliot Page, Ellen Page speaks from hell. So that's. That's a thing. And then, you know, at the end when Odysseus disguises himself to make sure his wife and son of him betrayed him, takes the name of. Of Ellen Page's character and is out to kind of avenge her legacy the entire film. I mean, she's. Again, she's the. Her character is the moral. She's in the very first scene. She's in the undercurrent of the entire film. And it's a character, by the way. It's not even in the Odyssey. My own theory is that originally Ellen was cast as Achilles, and then with the entire blowback several months ago, they changed it to this other character. That's my own pet theory. And then there's this weird feminist lament that Anne Hathaway's character has about how the men won't allow her to become queen. It's just intentionally subversive. It's intentionally deconstructive in nature. And Odysseus abdicates his throne at the end instead of taking it as he does in the story.

[Caller Michael]

He.

[Steve Dace]

He abdicates it in the end because he's got to go off now and sail and find himself and. And learn from all the terrible things he has said and done. It's just I. I found the film to be, frankly, pathetic. And I don't even think it's very good. Much like Tenant. I don't know what, you know, this new fetish is with making films you can't understand from Nolan, but he did this with Tenant. Good luck understanding it. Like every fourth word of that film. The same thing is odd with this sound design. This was also with the Dark Knight Rises. You guys remember that there was originally a preview that came out of the Bane hijack scene, and so many IMAX audiences complained that they couldn't understand Bane. They had completely remixed that film before the. The theatrical release. So I don't know what it is. It doesn't want you to hear his movies. It's kind of weird. But the film itself, it's not good. And I think the one thing that Nolan proved is you can't make something great in Woke, because to serve the Woke, you have to put in the kinds of things that undermine and deconstruct the heroism of your own characters and. And make them less attractive. And you've Got to add all this sort of, you know, psychiatric exposition, postmodernism to explain themselves that also drives away audiences.

[Clay Travis]

You, by the way, are hitting on something. I don't know if Buck has picked up on this. I'm infuriated regularly with modern day sound mixing where I can hear a jet taking off in the background or the music in the background. It is insanely loud. But you can't actually hear the dialogue that the characters are engaging in. And to me, the dialogue is the most important part, not the fact that there's ambient sound in the background. And I sound like obsessive Radio Guy. I understand it. Audio Guy, who I've made fun of in the past, has to be a perfect audio experience. But I do think that, that we have added a lot of the depth of sound and detracted from the most important part of sound in a movie, which is what people say. Let me go to this question and then we'll come back to Sophie Cunningham with you. Buck and I have argued that there is a wide open lane that is huge. We got billionaires who listen to this program. It takes a lot of money to make a movie. Odyssey cost $250 million, reportedly, plus how much it costs to market it. All the other attributes associated with making a successful movie. You're a big movie buff. You just said you like Christopher Nolan. Are you with Buck and me, that there is a huge lane available for somebody who would just make great movies like we watched in the 80s and 90s that are designed to appeal to everyone and aren't trying in any way to make a direct propagandist political statement as a part of the movie.

[Steve Dace]

10,000%. I mean, 10,000%. And I think what you're kind of seeing, I would argue faith based and conservative filmmaking in the last few years. I hope my film Nefarious played into this. I think what you're seeing is now we're. We're figuring out if it's really just about telling a great story. And if you do that, then your worldview will shine through organically on its own. And as opposed to, as opposed to trying to check boxes and shoehorn in ideas and what you're seeing. And that's why a lot of conservative and faith based filmmaking was cheesy and failed for so many years. What you're seeing now, Clay, is on the other side. They're the ones doing it. They're the ones saying now that we don't have to tell a good story anymore, we have to check boxes, we have to make sure that all of our tropes are included, that all of our representatives in all of our various tribes feel like they had agency. And, you know, that's. I think one of the things that we set out to do when we made Nefarious was just to make the best thriller, kind of based off those 90s thrillers like Fallen, you know, like Silence of the Lambs, like Seven. With the budget, we had to kind of make our best version of that. And it just so happened to contain our worldview because as filmmakers, that's our belief system. But it wasn't like, well, were just sitting around in a writer's room. Well, let's drop that line too. It wasn't like that. And so we're actually in the process right now of raising money for the next movie. We're going to do that maybe, maybe even darker than the first film was. And I have to tell you that that finding our, our people need to understand that, you know, we're behind in pop culture because the other side was until now. Well, well, they still are. They're willing to lose money for their message. And I think that our people have got to. Got to determine and understand that the amount of hearts and minds you can reach with good storytelling nowadays is huge. And it's the last place left, guys, where I think people will let you come at their worldview if you entertain them and just tell them a good story that they won't do in any other venue where so many minds are made up. And I, I think this is kind of the undiscovered country for the American right is to realize that for, for the bang for your buck and a relatively good chance at an roi, you can do way more culture shaping and shifting in the storytelling arena than you even can and directly in politics.

[Clay Travis]

Now, speaking of Steve Dase radio host, go check out the Steve D. Show and you go in the podcast of it. And Steve, Sophie Cunningham, a lot of our mail. We already had a, I would assume, unrequited marriage proposal from one of our audience members. Just saying if she, if she's listening, he will get her a ring. So she does have certainly fans in the talk radio space. But her taking this, this position that women's sports should be protected for women seems to be the most straightforward statement of the obvious imaginable. And yet it is a revolutionary act, it seems, in our current culture. What do you make of it?

[Steve Dace]

Well, first of all, hat tip to your, your co host there, Clay. I thought he had a great observation yesterday. I saw on the same day that espn. Let's go. Which chief race baiter and Ryan Clark, they published this interview with Sophie Cunningham drawing a clear line between insanity and sanity. I think the most. So that's a great observation there. I think the most important thing, actually that Sophie Cunningham said is. Is. Is when she said. I said what I said, and I stand by it in response. There is a graveyard of people who have been willing to take an initial step into just outlining sanity and then with a modicum of pushback, have completely buckled, particularly, frankly, too many men. So for her to stand up there against the. The horde, the woke horde there of WNBA media and there. It's not worthy of arguing. There's not even an argument. All right. I mean, so these people aren't serious thinkers. There's really nothing else to say other than I said what I said, and I stand by it. It stands by itself that women ought to be competing against women and ought to be competing against men, and everybody else who doesn't have the woke mind virus on planet Earth agrees. So I think the fact that she was willing to stand by it, guys, I think that's even more important than what she said originally.

[Clay Travis]

I agree with that. Last question for you. Caitlin Clark came out of Iowa. This is one that I got completely wrong. I never believed that her fame from college basketball would translate to the wnba because, frankly, it hasn't really happened before. Even.

[Caller Michael]

You.

[Clay Travis]

Are you surprised by the degree to which Caitlin Clark has captured so much of the nation's attention, particularly given that she's playing in the wnba?

[Steve Dace]

I know because she's a magnetic personality and plays a great style of game. What has surprised me, though, I have to tell you, Clay, is how much she desires the approval of this peer group to the point of just taking things and swallowing her own tongue and not speaking out like Sophie has. And just what we were talking about, that has surprised me. And I wonder if we get to a point with her where. Where she now begins to become identified with the very forces that a lot of her fans think that she was. She's kind of been. Been anointed to oppose because she greatly desires the mainstream acceptance of the very groups and the very forces that want to rank her 11th among point guards in her own league. And so I think. I think now that's the danger for Caitlyn. Is it going the other way? Kind of classic, you know, does she become essentially the John Cornyn of the WNBA that she forgets she was a senator from Texas and she just greatly desires the Washington Post and New York Times editorial board. You know, acceptance and alienates her own base. I would be more concerned about that moving forward for Caitlyn Franklin giving people nightmares here.

[Clay Travis]

Steve, the John Cornyn of the wnba, that is, that is quite a thing.

Outstanding stuff, Steve. We appreciate it. Keep up the good.

[Steve Dace]

Thank you guys.

[Clay Travis]

Look, Buck, there's a lot of people out there that need good lawyers and there are a lot of lawyers that will line up that can cost a thousand, two thousand, three thousand dollars an hour. I even saw where some top lawyers are now billing $4,000 an hour. If you need a great lawyer and you're not going to be able to pay $4,000 an hour, you need to go to clay travis law.com we have a tremendous collection of great attorneys nationwide. We can find out if your case fits. What we can do for you doesn't cost you anything. You fill out a form, get back to you very rapidly and say yes or no, we can handle this case. Clay travis law.com no cost. You do not pay for any of the legal representation. It is a contingency fee. That means that you get paid one day. The lawyer gets paid too. So no cost. Even though you're going up against thousand two thousand, three thousand, four thousand dollars an hour lawyers. Clay travis law.com taking care of so many people who need great representation to go up against the expensive, high, high powered lawyers that otherwise are out there. Again, go check it out. Fill it out. No cost. Click playtravislaw.com miss the show? While you're on the go, wind down your day with the Daily Review podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Clay Travis]

Please go subscribe on our YouTube clan. Buck YouTube. We are streaming the show there. We have a channel chat going. It's a lot of fun. You can also watch On Demand there after we are finished up. Caroline Levitt was talking about the Sophie Cunningham situation earlier on during the show. Wanted to bring this to you. This is cut 30.

[Caller Michael]

Play it.

[Announcer]

Sophia Cunningham in the WNBA has been attacked as a MAGA Barbie for saying it's common sense for men to not be in women's sports and locker rooms. Is the President following this story and has he reached the out to her?

[P]

I don't believe he has reached out to her. I know he is following the story. As you know, this is something the President feels strongly about as well, and the American people do too, that men should not be playing in women's sports. It's completely ludicrous that anyone could support that. It's even more ludicrous that you do have Sophia Cunningham, a female athlete herself, very accomplished in her own right, coming forth and speaking that truth that mentioned in women's sports, we want to protect women and girls. And the backlash she is receiving from Democrats and left wing figures across the country is astonishing. They are clearly very out of touch with the American public on this issue, which again is an 8020 issue. It's common sense. It's rooted in basic biological fact that men should not be competing against women on playing fields across the country.

[Clay Travis]

Clay, I just think there's an added layer of crazy here when saying what she said makes her a MAGA Barbie now. Yeah, really.

That's where.

That's where we're at on this issue.

That's where we are. I mentioned Caroline Levitt is a former college athlete herself. She's been on this program a lot over the past several years and I do think that this story is going to continue to grow because I think the chaos of crazy left wing sports media in conjunction with crazy left wing trans activists. Podcast listener Ryan in Florida. He's got a question for you, Buck.

[Listener Ryan]

Hey, Clay and Buck Ryan here in Florida. Hey Clay. This has really got me questioning. I wonder if Buck's roommate that introduced him to polish sausage had his grock out at the time.

[Clay Travis]

Hey, hey, I know what he did there, Clay.

If you couldn't hear it. He was asking whether Buck's college roommate who introduced him to college to polish sausages was rocking with his crock out when it happened. This is gonna turn into. I'm not gonna. I think there's a possibility that Elon is gonna see this clip and he's gonna think this is the greatest possible advertisement imaginable for my new, for my new process here. So we will continue to break it all down for you. Appreciate all of you fun more tomorrow

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