Hour 3 - Smithsonian Showdown

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 3 – Smithsonian Showdown
Date: August 25, 2025
Host(s): Clay Travis and Buck Sexton
Podcast Provider: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the controversy involving the Smithsonian Institution and broader discussions about museums and their role in portraying American history. Clay and Buck dive into the recent calls from the Trump White House to review museum exhibitions for their alignment with "American ideals." The conversation branches into debates around "wokeness" in cultural institutions, the political framing of American history, and First Amendment issues related to flag burning. The tone is candid, irreverent, and argumentative, mixing humor with pointed critique.

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Main Themes and Discussion Points

1. Smithsonian Museums and the Pushback Against “Woke” Exhibits

(01:58–14:35)

• Origins of the Controversy:

  • The Trump administration has called for a review of current and future exhibits at eight Smithsonian museums, including calls for exhibits to align with "American ideals."
  • The administration’s actions were prompted by the perception that museums, especially in DC, have become bastions of left-wing ideology.

• Personal Museum Experiences:

  • Clay recently visited the National Air and Space Museum with his son and had a positive, "uplifting" experience, noting an absence of negative or "failure"-focused exhibits (e.g., no displays on plane crashes or aviation disasters).
  • Buck connects this approach to how the left emphasizes America’s failures, whereas he and Clay believe museums should primarily celebrate American achievements.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Clay Travis (06:31):

    "When you go to the Air and Space Museum, it is about the incredible human accomplishment of flight and space exploration... There wasn't a single exhibit about plane crashes or about people who died trying to go to space. That doesn't mean that plane crashes don't happen... But in general, I think the goal of the Smithsonians is to make people feel better about America and American life and to leave with an uplifting feeling."

  • Buck Sexton (04:11):

    "Trump has told his lawyers to go through museums... His administration saw changes threatening funding cuts and even tax-exempt status. So the left is of course very upset about this... There’s no neutral space here. They want these to reflect their view of American history, which means highlighting oppressed and victimized people..."

• Key Exhibits Highlighted by Administration:

  • LGBTQ+ history (American History Museum)
  • A painting of immigrants crossing the border (National Portrait Gallery)
  • A drawing of Anthony Fauci (National Portrait Gallery)

• Critique of Progressive Narratives:

  • Both hosts argue these exhibits reflect partisan and contemporary (rather than historical) priorities.
  • Buck and Clay criticize the focus on America’s sins—most notably slavery—while downplaying national achievements.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Buck Sexton (13:24):

    "If you're talking about combat fatalities in the Civil War, overwhelmingly it was white men who died on both sides, and it was their price in blood that ended the institution of slavery, which always seems to get left out..."

  • Clay Travis (11:43):

    "One reason that Democrats’ popularity is in the tank is because they focus on the failures of America almost exclusively. They've got the oppression Olympics all the time. The idea that you cannot succeed, that America is a horribly racist, irredeemable country with a sordid past..."

• International Comparisons:

  • Buck questions whether other countries feature self-critical museum exhibits to this extent, noting that only post-Nazi Germany might be comparable.

  • Buck Sexton (14:35):

    "What other country would do this? ...this idea that you're going to have museums that seek within a country, that seek to attack and undermine the country from within, this is not a common thing..."

2. Patriotism, Education, and Cultural Confidence

(14:35–17:56)

• Impact on Youth:

  • Both hosts argue that teaching young Americans to focus on their country’s failures leads to a lack of national pride and susceptibility to “being led astray.”

  • They assert that “Make America Great Again” resonates because it appeals to the ideal of continuous national improvement and pride.

  • Clay Travis (15:44):

    "[If students are] being taught that America is a profoundly racist, awful, oppressive country, then it's hard to have pride in the country... When you don't have pride in place, you're able to be led astray."

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3. Trump’s Remarks and Flag Burning Executive Order

(22:57–35:44)

• Trump’s Proposal:

  • A new executive order (proposed by Trump) would make burning the American flag punishable by one year in jail, with no early exit and a permanent record.

  • Trump cites prior executive orders on monument vandalism as successful deterrents.

  • Donald Trump (23:24):

    "If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. No early exits, no nothing. You get one year in jail. And it goes on your record. And you will see flag burning stopping immediately."

• Host Commentary:

  • Buck and Clay both disagree with Trump’s proposal, citing Supreme Court precedent (Texas v. Johnson, 1989) protecting flag burning as symbolic speech.

  • Both hosts support free speech rights, including burning the American flag, pride flag, or any other symbol, so long as it doesn’t incite a riot or involve theft/vandalism of someone else’s property.

  • Buck Sexton (26:08):

    "Either flag burning is a legal act of protected symbolic speech or it is not. We cannot have a society where we pick and choose."

  • Clay Travis (26:24):

    "I don't think he has the constitutional authority to do it. I understand the intent, but the Supreme Court has said you can burn flags... as a First Amendment absolutist, I think the president is wrong on this one."

• Hate Crime Laws and Selective Enforcement:

  • The hosts contend that hate crime enhancements are inconsistently applied, with more severe penalties for expressions deemed offensive toward favored groups (e.g., a man receiving 15 years for stealing and burning a pride flag).

  • Buck Sexton (32:14):

    "A guy in 2019... given a sentence of 15 years for stealing a pride flag and burning it. ...In any other situation, do you get 15 years in prison for stealing something that's a $50 item? I don't think so."

  • Both hosts argue this reflects an imbalanced approach to free speech and the law, calling for equal protection regardless of group identity.

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4. Showdown on Sports and Lighthearted Moments

(39:20–41:40)

• Brief lighthearted discussion about Clay’s nephew’s tennis servespowers and Buck’s own earlier tennis claims, adding a break from political talk.
• Clay shares meeting Bo Duke from “The Dukes of Hazzard,” and Buck reminisces about 1980s TV, reinforcing the relatable, friendly banter style.

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5. Listener Call: Flag Burning Debate

(41:59–42:57)

• A caller (Jim from North Carolina) challenges Clay and Buck’s position on flag burning.
• Clay acknowledges the Supreme Court’s stance, reiterates the speech-act connection, and references controversial moments globally (e.g., burning of the Quran or Bible in protest settings).
• Clay maintains support for flag protection as expression, given the existing legal framework.

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Notable Quotes

• Clay Travis (06:31):

  "When you go to the Air and Space Museum... it is about the incredible human accomplishment... There wasn't a single exhibit about plane crashes... I think the goal of the Smithsonians is to make people feel better about America..."

• Buck Sexton (13:24):

  "Overwhelmingly it was white men who died on both sides [of the Civil War], and it was their price in blood that ended the institution of slavery, which always seems to get left out..."

• Donald Trump (23:24):

  "If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. No early exits, no nothing..."

• Buck Sexton (26:08):

  "Either flag burning is a legal act of protected symbolic speech or it is not. We cannot have a society where we pick and choose..."

• Clay Travis (26:24):

  "As a First Amendment absolutist, I think the president is wrong on this one. I don't think he has the authority to do it with the executive order..."

• Buck Sexton (32:14):

  "In any other situation, do you get 15 years in prison for stealing something that's a $50 item? I don't think so..."

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Key Timestamps

• [01:58] – Introduction to the Smithsonian/museum controversy and Trump’s pushback
• [06:31] – Clay’s perspective on Air and Space Museum's focus vs. trauma-centered exhibits
• [10:05] – Critical discussion of highlighted “woke” exhibits (e.g., LGBTQ+, immigration)
• [13:24] – Civil War, slavery, and partisan historical framing
• [14:35] – Buck compares U.S. museums to foreign nations' approaches
• [23:24] – Trump audio on flag burning penalties
• [26:08]–[26:24] – Clay and Buck’s strong defense of free speech and criticism of selective enforcement on flag burning
• [32:14] – Sentencing disparities and hate crime enhancement discussion
• [41:59] – Caller challenges hosts on flag burning stance

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Conclusion

This lively episode uses the “Smithsonian Showdown” as a springboard to debate culture war flashpoints ranging from the American historical narrative to free speech on flag burning. While both hosts lambaste “woke” museum exhibits and endorse a focus on national achievements, they diverge from Trump on banning flag burning, insisting—and repeating—that the right to symbolic protest is constitutionally protected regardless of political content. The episode blends critique, humor, and a consistent conservative viewpoint, closing with interactive audience participation and banter.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

All right, third hour of Clay and Buck starts right now. Thanks for being with us everybody. And as promised, we have this discussion that has gotten a lot of attention in the press. I think a lot less attention just from Main street, from from everyone all across the country trying to keep up with the news. This has to do with the Smithsonian specifically, but really museums more broadly, which, especially when you talk about DC museums like the National Portrait Gallery and have been filled with clay. What was have you been to any of these museums in recent years? I have to be honest with you, I have not.

[Clay Travis]

So so this is what got me blown up by the left. When we were up in dc, my son was doing a two week internship. He is incredibly fascinated with space travel, with science, with all of the sci fi related elements. So I took him to the National Air and Space Museum. So I was just up at the National Air and Space Museum a couple of months ago when we were in D.C. and it was fantastic. And now back to you on talking about the Smithsonian. But I will come back and tell you exactly what my take was on it. But you lived in D.C. these are all free, I imagine. What percentage of the audience do you think out there right now has ever been to a Smithsonian museum? If you went to DC, you have been to a Smithsonian museum. So I would think at least half of the people listening to us right.

[Buck Sexton]

Now you say 25%, but a big chunk. A big chunk. I grew up in New York City and I've never been to the Statue of Liberty. So I mean, you know, sometimes crazy things happen.

[Clay Travis]

But I feel like if you went to D.C. on a school trip or you took your family at any point in your life, I would venture most people who go to Washington D.C. have been to at least one of the Smithsonian. Now has it been a while for me other than Aaron Space? Yes. But I think set the table for what President Trump has said and this is where it all started.

[Buck Sexton]

Let's, let's, let's gather together on this one here for a second. Trump White House has called for a review of all current and future exhibitions at eight Smithsonian museums. This has got some of the major art museums involved as well. And this is because of quote, a desire or the quote starts with alignment with American ideals, a desire to make sure they're aligned with American ideals. President Trump truth the following the museums throughout Washington, but all over the country are essentially the last remaining segment of woke. And there then the White House released a list of muse of museum exhibits that it found objectionable. Trump has told his lawyers to go through museums and this is the same thing to do with colleges and universities. His administration has saw changes threatening funding cuts and even tax exempt status. So the, the left is of course very upset about this and the reason they're very upset about this is that they want these institutions to reflect their view. Remember, there's no neutral space here. They want these to reflect their view of American history, which means highlighting oppressed and victimized people and more specifically highlighting the center, the centerpiece of American history until the Industrial Revolution. Clay and the one and only thing that we're allowed to really think a lot about is slavery. And that is the most the the single central, most important to highlight aspect of American history according to some of these museums. And there's a fight underway and I think this is a good thing. I think that Trump should not allow the left wing nonsense to go without pushback at this a traveling exhibition at the museum at the Scottsdale Museum of Contemporary Art in Arizona, Clay was called Trans Feminisms this says and now they have changed. So we're talking about some pretty radical left wing stuff at museums in general, but at our national museum, Smithsonian Museum specifically.

[Clay Travis]

Here's a couple of headlines for you for yours truly after the take that I'm about to share with you. Fox News Pundit compares Slavery to Plane Crashes in Absurd Rant against the Smithsonian Some of you may have seen this by the way, seen the actual event going on Yahoo. Sports with Yahoo. Sorry regular with a similar take saying not a substantial part of history. The Fox News pundit compares slavery to plane crashes. Let's see, Yahoo says Fox News Pundit compare slavery to plane crashes. An absurd rant against the Smithsonian. Yahoo. All right, here's what I said and I bet you're going to sign off on this too. Maybe some of you disagree. I said, citing my trip to the Air and Space museum with my 17 year old. I said that when you go to the Air and Space Museum, it is about the incredible human accomplishment of flight and space exploration. We went through that whole place, Spirit of St. Louis front hanging from the ceiling. So many different the Wright Brothers plane from Kitty Hawk is there, recreated the original, one of the original versions. We spent an entire day there. It was awesome. We went to the IMAX theater. We watched the movies that they were putting on there. One about some of the challenges of space and time, the other about the, the, the challenges associated, if I remember correctly, with, with interstellar travel.

[Buck Sexton]

Right?

[Clay Travis]

I mean it is sci fi. It is history of flight and space exploration. There wasn't a single exhibit about plane crashes or about people who died trying to go to space. That doesn't mean that plane crashes don't happen all the time and that there aren't dangers from aviation and space travel. And maybe at some point in time they have a special exhibit for the Challenger or they have a special exhibit maybe connected to 911 in some way. I don't know if they've ever done that. But in general, I think the goal of the Smithsonians is to make people feel better about America and American life and to leave with an uplifting feeling. Now there are other museums in Washington, D.C. that are directly related to specific forms of trauma. The Holocaust Museum, for instance. But by and large, to me, sites like the Air and Space Museum should not be places where you go and examine human failure and the wrongs that have been perpetrated that have led to lack of success in space travel or flight. To me, that's a very, I think, easy to understand and also normal emotional response that most people would have. And so Trump is focused on the achievement, and much of the left now is focused on American failure. And that's really what this conversation is about.

[Buck Sexton]

Now, the administration highlighted a number of specific exhibits. I was looking for this a second ago, but I found it, and I can go through just a few of these. So there was a exhibit on LGBTQ + history at the American History Museum. Yeah, LGBTQ.

[Clay Travis]

I would not sign off on that in the American History Museum, personally. Like, I don't think that is necessary.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I mean, the history of LGBTQ has got to go back only a couple years because they just came up with that acronym a few years ago. I mean, the plus was just added. So this is very new. This is. This is really contemporary, not. Not actually history. And then you had. This is the one that I think got the most attention from people. A painting of immigrants crossing the southern border at the National Portrait Gallery. So it's a very favorable depiction of an immigrant family and, you know, a baby that, like. I mean, it looks like the baby Jesus or something that is crossing Trump's wall. And they didn't, you know, they don't like that. You know, by the way, that's illegal. What they're doing is a crime. So it's interesting. The way it's depicted, it's actually illegal, but the way it's depicted, it's like a great, you know, leap forward in America's. America's, you know, history or its past, whatever. Anyway, there's a bunch of other ones, Latinos with disabilities. A drawing of Anthony Fauci at the National Portrait Gallery. Fauci is. Yeah, Fauci is a scumbag, so that's not good. So, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think this stuff is all very political. You know, imagine if you had had. At the National Portrait Gallery, they were putting up, you know, they're putting up paintings of, like, what a terrible dementia patient Biden was and having him look really confused. I mean, you might say, that's a great painting, Buck. I should do that. But people would recognize that it's very partisan clay. These are very partisan things. That are going up in these museums.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. And again, I think the idea is, and I think most of you would sign off on this, one reason that Democrats popularity is in the tank is because they focus on the failures of America almost exclusively. They've got the oppression Olympics all the time. The idea that you cannot succeed, that America is a horribly racist, irredeemable country with a sordid past. I mean, really, the entire concept of the 1619 Project, which the New York Times got behind, among others, Nicole Hannah Jones, I believe, was the history of putting in quotation marks, because she's not actually much of a historian. But the idea of the 1619 Project was America's founding date is actually when slavery began in the. In the colonies and not 1776, when America declared independence from Great Britain. And so if you root American history and define it entirely based on slavery, then you are able, this is the goal, to tear down anything that was created in that era as illegitimate and oppressive. So the Constitution doesn't have to exist. The Declaration of Independence can be removed. All of that can be torn down. If you decide to only focus on the sins of American history, what I would say is 600,000 some odd people died to end slavery. That seems pretty significant in the general American consciousness. We should focus and celebrate successes over fail. I think that's what our museum should do.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. If you're talking about combat fatalities in the Civil War, overwhelmingly it was white men who died on both sides, but white men who died on both sides, and it was their price in blood that ended the institution of slavery, which. That always seems to get left out of this.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

You know, that always seems to be left out of the conversation. And there's a hatred, I think, of Americanness that the left indulges and really wants to propagate. And we see it at the universities, and now we see it through the. We saw it with the 1619 Project, the new York Times, and now we see it through the institutions of museums. And enough is enough. Let me ask you this, Clay. What other country would do this? Find me another country. I mean, the only thing you could maybe think of would be, you know, German museums about Nazism or, you know, the way that Nazis are treated in German museums of World War II. But this idea that you're going to have museums that seek within a country, that seek to attack and undermine the country from within, this is. This is not a common thing that the rest of the world would engage in.

[Clay Travis]

I think that's true. And I also believe that what trump sees is the symbolism of, of tearing down statues isn't really about those individuals who are having their statues torn down. It's an argument that the story of American history is one of tragedy and one that we should be saddened by and embarrassed by. And I think most of you out there that are students of history recognize that all of us are flawed, but that what we want to do is celebrate the great moments of American triumph, while acknowledging that we don't always make the right decisions. The long range history of America, from its inception in 1776 to the present day, is one of the greatest country in the history of the world, struggling, fighting, endeavoring to become greater than it has been in the past. And that's why I think Make America Great Again has such a cultural resonance, because it's about making us all better than we have been in the past and also returning us to some of the principles that made us so foundationally dominant. And it would make sense that you would then examine history to see what our kids are being taught. Because if they're being taught that America is a profoundly racist, awful, oppressive country, then it's hard to have pride in the country. And guess what? Young people don't have a lot of pride in the country. And when you don't have pride in place, you're able to be led astray and you're able to reject the history of this country and all of the accomplishments of so many people out there before us. And I think that's what Trump gets innately. Look, college campuses filling up again. Nearly 20 million college kids going away this fall. If you've got a kid going off to college, how about give them some self protection? And I'm talking about what Sabre can provide. These are self protection tools you recommend? We recommend in your own home, but also for your kids or your grandkids if they're going off to school. Pepper sprays, pepper gels, projectile devices. These are fantastic to have. We've got a 17 year old who's now driving his own car. He's got pepper spray that he keeps right in the center of the car so that he could use it if he needs to. Do you have a daughter? Do you have a granddaughter going off to school? She having to walk into a parking garage? You she having to walk. Maybe she has night classes, maybe she's got a job, maybe she's going back and forth. What protection does she have? This is what Saber is all about. It's a company founded by a family, still run by that family, that can help make your own family that much safer. And right now you can save 15% on the sabre Mega bundle with extra projectiles, magazines and practice targets. If you go to saberradio.com that's s a b r e radio.com you can also call them 844-824-SAFE. That's 844-824-SAF and you will get hooked up. Go check them out. I promise you're gonna love the products. We've got them all. Buck's got them all. You and your family could definitely use these. 15 off saberradio.com that's S A-B-R E radio.com news you can count on and some laughs too. Clay Travis at Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Clay Travis]

Now you can stream Fox News live on the Fox One app. Stay on top of breaking news and the biggest stories live as they happen. All from the FOX voices you trust, bringing you the coverage you won't find anywhere else.

[Buck Sexton]

Start your 7 day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one we live for live streaming now.

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We have got a absolute bundle of you giving us tons of different feedback. And let me play a couple of these for you, by the way, because Trump has been talking to media all day and I want to make sure that that we are giving you enough of what he is saying in there. Here is Trump on the John Bolton and Mar A Lago raids while he's meeting with the president of South Korea. Cut 34 more raids like the one on John Bolton's house. Coming?

[Donald Trump]

More rage. I don't know. You have to ask the Department of Justice. They raided my house. I can tell you that. They did a big raid on my house. They took everything that wasn't pinned down and they took away some of that, too. No, they raided Mar? A Lago. They started that. These were bad people that we had in our government before they raided Mar A Lago. They went into my wife's area, they went into my son's area, my young son. And what they did was a disgrace. But how did it work out? Where? Oh, I see, we're in the. Oh, I guess it didn't work out too well for him, did it?

[Clay Travis]

And here's one more. Buck. Here is South Korean President Myung via a translator. Cut 33. Currently there is a fact finding investigation by a special prosecutor that was appointed by the national assembly and this special.

[Donald Trump]

Prosecutor named Deranged Jack Smith. They took him from our country. Deranged. He is a deranged, sick individual. But go ahead, go ahead. I'm only kidding.

[Buck Sexton]

Maybe I'm not.

[Clay Travis]

So Trump feeling at ease there with South Korea's president? We'll come back, we'll break some more of this down for you. But in the meantime, you need a little bit more energy in your life. Maybe chalk can make a difference for you. I guarantee you, Mom, Donnie could use a little bit of chalk, maybe a little bit of testosterone so that he could actually bench press 135 pounds at 33 years old. Chalk's mail vitality stack can replenish 20% of your lost testosterone in just three months. Time. Use my name Clay. You get a massive discount on any chalk subscription for life. It's Monday. If you're already dragging a little bit after a busy weekend and you're looking at all the things on your schedule coming ahead, maybe you could use a little bit of chalk yourself as well. That's chalk.com My name's Clay. Put some testosterone back in your life. Don't be weak like mom, dummy. Get hooked up right [e-mail] c h o q.com don't feel like a Democrat. Feel like a Republican with testosterone. Thanks to chalk. Cho Q.com Clay, Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. As we said, Trump had a meeting today with the president of South Korea and also was just in the Oval Office addressing a whole range of issues. One thing that came up, I didn't know that this was going to happen. I'm sure Trump had probably tweeted or spoken about it recently, but truthed about it recently. He spoke about the executive order on burning flags. This is cut to listen in what.

[Donald Trump]

The penalty is going to be. If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. No early exits, no nothing. You get one year in jail. If you burn a flag, you get. And what it does is incite to riot. I hope they used that language, by the way, did they incite incite to riot and you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. You don't get 10 years. You don't get one month. You get one year in jail. And it goes on your record. And you will see flag burning stopping immediately. Just like when I signed the Statute and Monument Act. 10 years in jail. If you heard any of our beautiful monuments, everybody left town, they were gone. Never had a problem after that. It's pretty amazing we stopped it. But this is something that's, I don't know, in a certain way, it's equally as important. Some people would say it's more important.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, Clay, I know you want to dive in on this one. And there's, there's a lot to, a lot to chew on with this. There is the Texas v. Johnson, 1989 Supreme Court case that said that this is a, that flag burning is a legal act. Court weighed in on this very clearly. I mean, they've said that this is, this is legal. So I don't. And then there's the issue of the executive order instead of a congressional act to pass a statute. Right. Executive orders are not supposed to be in place of laws. It's supposed to be the use of executive authority that either resides with the President or given to the President by an act of Congress. So that may be a challenge. I'm sure you got some other ideas on that one, too. One thing I would say, though, about this, I don't think this is going to last. Meaning, I don't think that this is going to make its way into policy without the courts stepping in. And I think he would lose at the Supreme Court on this, too. I mean, just if it went to the current Supreme Court, I don't think that he would get a different result, personally. Maybe I could be wrong, and maybe that's where this ends up going at some point. But, Clay, the other thing is this. We live in a country where burning some flags will get you sent to prison.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Because they say it's hate speech. That is wrong. It is part of the left wing DEI communist reordering of our society. And whether it's a, you know, an LGBTQ mural on a street that you're not allowed to drive too fast over, or it's a trans flag somewhere, either flag burning is a legal act of protected symbolic speech or it is not. We cannot have a society where we pick and choose. We cannot have, oh, you know, you like this on fire. You go to prison, but you like that on fire. Again, as a symbolism. And there's no big, you know, light the American flag on fire, no big deal.

[Clay Travis]

Look, I disagree with the president on this. I don't think he has the constitutional authority to do it. I understand the intent, but the Supreme Court has said you can burn flags and American flags, and I think you should be able to burn gay pride flags. I think you should be able to burn trans celebration flags, state flags. I wouldn't do it personally because I don't believe in it on an individual level, but I believe that you should have the right to make this statement. And so, as a first amendment absolutist, I think the president is wrong on this one. I don't think he has the authority to do it with the executive order. Again, I understand the intent, and I understand that it feels awful to see someone burning the American flag. That doesn't mean that I believe that should be considered a crime. Now, there are exceptions, right? If the president did reference. Hey, if you're trying to create a riotous environment, there are contexts in which, if you take somebody else's flag, right. Yank it out of their hand and burn it, that is different than purchasing a flag yourself and choosing to burn it. But the Supreme Court has been pretty clear on this. I think that this is a protected speech. It is political speech, whether you agree with it or not. And so look, I think if you remember, producer Greg probably remember his name. I think one of the great iconic moments in. Was it Rick Monday, I think in American sports is when a fan ran on the field at Yankee Stadium and tried to burn a flag. And Rick Monday, I believe the center fielder for the Yankees ran and yanked the flag away before he could burn it. I applaud that. I think that, remember when we outside Union Station, we played audio, there was a guy who saw a flag burning and he grabbed it and ran with it to try to prevent the flag from being burned. I salute the bravery and patriotism, in my opinion, for that occurring. Well, but again, I don't think the President has the right to do it and I don't think we should ban flag burning.

[Buck Sexton]

That though, then brings me to the hate speech thing, which is just an end run on this. And you have to be very careful with the left in this. They'll say no, you're allowed, for example, you're allowed to burn a pride flag. No, actually, you're really not. Because if you burn the flag and there's any other violation of statute, let's say you take a flag off of a pole and it's not yours, or, or you know, you've created an incendiary device in a public square or so they'll find some way and then they hit you with a hate crime enhancement. And let me just say, I think hate crimes, I don't view. I think hate crimes are effectively the enhancements you get from hate crimes just comes from some people are considered to be a higher status of victim than others for the same conduct or the same act. So I in principle disagree with hate crime enhancements. You know, obviously I don't like hate crimes, but that's not the same thing as saying, you know, you've got these people that have been arrested, for example, for like leaving a skid mark on a street because there's a pride mural there. It's a street.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

People can drive on the street. And do you get arrested for driving too fast in another intersection and leaving some marks on something? No. Then you shouldn't be arrested for this. They play these games of. They want, they want the law to protect certain classes and that includes certain flag burning situations. And that has to stop. That has to be there. You know, the Supreme Court, I think should take that up too. And Just say, look, you can't play these games anymore where you have an end run on the right to burn flags. Or, you know, you have this sort of backdoor way of really punishing some people. And then everything else, you know, the American flag is all, this is completely fine to burn. Burn as many as you want. So, man, I remember there was. I. People still think this is crazy when I say it. There were students who held a flag burning on my campus in College after 911 Clay. Yeah, a, a, you know, about, I don't know, maybe eight students or something. They were actually not from my college. This came out later. They were from Hampshire down the road. But Hampshire is such a. I'm just being honest. An unserious academic institution, top to bottom, just the truth, just facts. That they came to Amherst because they thought it would get them more attention. And it did. Boston Globe wrote it up. But, you know, that mentality was there. It was, oh, we're still burying people from 911 or still finding out, you know, if anyone's. Where people's remains are, let's have a big flag burning on campus. So, you know, I understand very much how it upsets people and how it's, it's. It's a. I'm with you. And that I strongly disagree with it. I just don't. I think the president doesn't have the authority here and I don't see how I don't even have the authority.

[Clay Travis]

I don't even think it's a good idea to try to start to make these designations again. I think you should be able to burn legally the American flag, the Israeli fact, the flag, the Palestinian flag, any sort of flag that has to do with any statement. By the way, we're in college football season. A state flag, a flag that is somehow in some way associated with, with anybody out there. I think, again, to your point, you shouldn't be prosecuted because you decide to drive over gay pride flags that are on, that are painted on the, on the road. Like, why is that a thing in the first place? You're basically demanding or in, in some way putting it in the context where you're going to be driving over it all the time. I think you should be able to burn a trans flag, I think a gay rights flag, whatever you want to burn. Again, I'm not saying I would do it, but I don't like the idea of penalizing direct political speech. And I think the Supreme Court's been clear on this. I don't think you have the, the ability to stop It.

[Buck Sexton]

A guy. In 2019, an American was given a sentence of 15 years for stealing a pride flag from a church and burning it outside of a strip club. Now, anybody. Anybody who has any familiarity with how criminal law works in general. A flag. I don't know what the flag was. The flag. I'm looking at a picture of it right now. Flag was, I don't know, 50 bucks. In any other situation, do you get. Do you get 15 years in prison for stealing something that's a $50 item? I don't think so. Okay.

[Clay Travis]

That punishment is. Is crazy. But the way they're able to punish it, to me there is. They stole something and then burned it.

[Buck Sexton]

No, I. I understand, but.

[Clay Travis]

But then they pile bonkers workers.

[Buck Sexton]

They pile on top of that. A hate crime enhancement. He stole a flag. Stealing a flag should be a thing that you can't do that gets you, you know, what is the value of the flag? And it should be treated like, you know, in this case, it should be treated like you stole a pair of shoes. Okay, don't do that again. You know, you have this on your record. 15 years in prison. 15 years. People murder. People don't get 15 years.

[Clay Travis]

Absolutely. Absolutely insane.

[Buck Sexton]

So, you know this. But this is what I mean BY they really. LGBTQ+ and the trans agenda really became a state religion in this country. And I don't mean, like, by state, I mean big S state of the federal government and of the apparatus starting under the Obama years and then, of course, really reaching its peak in the Biden years, and it's madness. You know, I'm sorry, but, like, you know, if you. If someone. If someone's going to tell me they have a right to stand, you know, here in South Florida and burn an American flag, I don't want to hear that. That if you burn a pride flag, you go to prison. That's. That's not. That's not what. You disagree.

[Clay Travis]

No, no, no, I agree with all that. I just. This may be a first. I'm just going through mentions. I screwed up a sports analogy, and I'm getting correct. So I wanted to issue a correction. Rick Monday, center fielder for the Cubs, and it was at Dodger Stadium in 1976. I thought the Yankees were involved. This is before my time. I wasn't born yet. I know the video as an iconic moment in sports, but I gotta. I gotta. I whiffed on that one, so I.

[Buck Sexton]

Just gotta tell you.

[Clay Travis]

So I had.

[Buck Sexton]

Don't blame Clay. Clay's been hanging out with me too much. He's like, you know, the Yankees, Red Sox, whatever. You know, same one of those teams.

[Clay Travis]

That plays the ball, I don't know, the sports ball. They sports my apology.

[Buck Sexton]

It happens. It happens. The best of us, Clay. Don't worry about it. All right. We'll come in, take some of your calls and take some of your thought. By the way, if you got thoughts on the flag burning thing, very curious for you to hear it. I think this is a move by Trump at some level. First of all, I think that he just passionately loves the American flag and appreciates symbolism and I think he deeply believes this is the right thing for the country. So I don't. I just think he's going to run into procedural problems with this. And I think the Supreme Court's weighed in pretty clearly on this. So unless the Supreme Court's going to overturn that previous decision, it's like, okay, what are we doing? But I also think it highlights this pick and choose situation of, well, some flags, you know, you go to prison for if you burn. And we all know this. Oh, it's stolen or whatever. Yeah, please. Some flags are sacrosanct. Some flags we give, we give special and some objects we give special, you know, protection to.

[Clay Travis]

Nope.

[Buck Sexton]

It's either you either have the right or you don't have the right. It can't be a thing that's based on what you like. What percentage of Americans you think own gold? 5%, 15%, 33%? Look, the answer is just more than 12% which is pretty small number when you consider that gold has increased in value some 40% of the last year. For you and most of this audience, it's an investment opportunity. It's close to another all time high now and a lot of room for growth in gold. Still a lot of reason to own gold these days. It's proven to increase in value over time. I mean, just look historically at gold. Is there anything over human history that's a tangible physical thing that has had more value over time? Also, by the way, Birch Gold Group, their best, the best at getting you physical gold. I bought my gold coins and gold bars from them. They can get you a gold 401k or IRA going, that's right, a gold or gold IRA or 401k. Easy to convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered Iraq with physical gold. And all you have to do to get going with Birch Gold Group today is text my name Buck to 9898 98. Birchgold will send you a free info kit on Gold A Plus rating with a Better Business Bureau. Tens of thousands of happy customers. Text my Name Buck to 9,898.98 to get started today.

[Clay Travis]

Making America Great again isn't just one man, it's many. The Team 47 podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Clay Travis]

Now you can stream Fox News Live on the Fox one app. Stay on top of breaking news and the biggest stories. Live as they happen, all from the Fox voices you trust, bringing you the coverage you won't find anywhere else.

[Buck Sexton]

Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one we live for live streaming now.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Hey there. I'm Mary Kathryn Ham.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz. We've been in political media for a long time.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Long enough to know that it's gotten, well, a little insane.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's why we started Normally a podcast for people who are over the hysteria and just want clarity.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

We talk about the issues that actually matter to the country without panic, without yelling, and with a healthy dose of humor.

[Carol Markowitz]

We don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the truth seriously.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

So if you're into common sense, sanity, and some occasional sass, you're our kind of people. Catch new episodes of Normally every Tuesday.

[Carol Markowitz]

And Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Clay Travis]

Podcasts, or wherever you listen have some fun to close up shop here. I meant to mention this earlier. Bucket. My 14 year old fit just turned 15. My 15 year old nephew, he is a freshman in high school. He's a good tennis player. He practiced this weekend. He carries a radar gun with him to see how his temper, how his speed is on serves. And he showed me. He hit 102 and 103 this weekend in his training sessions on his serves. Buck. I don't know what the latest is on serve. Gate.

[Buck Sexton]

Whoa.

[Clay Travis]

He's 15. Just turned 15 in May, freshman year. Just to be clear, just to be.

[Buck Sexton]

Clear, there have been you, There have been Wimbledon champions who were 16, all right, before any of you were like, oh, true story. Check it out yourself. Monica Sellers and Boris won at 16 and I believe Boris Becker won Wimbledon at 17.

[Clay Travis]

I think that's right. So yes, you can, you can be really, really good.

[Buck Sexton]

It's not, it's not like football where you need extra years of, you know, sort of physical growth of, you know, you need to be like post college to be at your maximum speed and strength. You can be number. You can be the number one tennis player in the world as an 18 year old. Second point. I'm just saying, I'm, I'm not trying to take the heat off myself. Oh, okay. Okay. So we haven't forgotten about a little challenge. You're 100, 203. Can I just say, this all started because you asked me how fast I could serve and I said I think about a hundred and I clocked in 97 the first time I tried. Okay, so like I, you know, let's get real here. That's pretty close. But you know what, Laura, your, your, your lovely wife has thrown down the gauntlet on this one. We set parameters. She's not letting it slide. So maybe I'll get out there, I'll loosen up the shoulder, we'll see how it goes. How tall is your nephew, by the way?

[Clay Travis]

Not that tall. Like, I mean, not to insult him, but I think probably five, eight, something. I mean, he's 50. Oh, he's not growing. He's not like six, two or something? No, no, no, no. He's, he's a good player. Also, I think you'll appreciate this. I met Bo Duke on Friday from the Dukes of Hazard. John Schneider, if you remember that I love you.

[Buck Sexton]

May have been.

[Clay Travis]

This might be one where you being like three or four years younger than me actually factors in, in a big way. Did you watch the Dukes of Hazard growing up?

[Buck Sexton]

No, but my brother who's your age, Mason, who you know very well.

[Clay Travis]

He was a Duke.

[Buck Sexton]

He watched it all. He watched that Miami Vice and Knight Rider.

[Clay Travis]

Oh, I mean, I love Dukes of Hazard back in the day. Got to meet John Schneider, super nice guy. Bo Duke, huge, looks like a left tackle in the NFL. He was way, way bigger than I thought he was going to be. All right, what do we got here in terms of people who've been waiting to talk? Let's go to Jim in North Carolina. What you got?

[Buck Sexton]

Hey, Clay, love. Love you guys. However big disagreement on the flag in terms of burning it. Clay, let me ask you a question. Do you speak a flag into it burning or do you have. Actually.

[Clay Travis]

I appreciate the Supreme Court. I understand that argument. The Supreme Court disagrees with you. The Supreme Court has said that burning a flag is a political speech. Right. And this has been controversial. If you take it out of flags, remember, it's been hugely controversial in Europe. The Quran, they burn sometimes as a statement and it is incredibly dangerous, you might imagine, to do. Sometimes Bibles get burned, things like that. I understand the argument that it is an act, not speech. Many speech and acts are connected and I would suggest this is one of them. Probably some of you weigh in. We'll take that tomorrow. Thanks for hanging with us. Monday Edition.

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[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

You want smart political talk without the meltdowns? We got you.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And I'm Mary Kathryn Hamm. We've been around the block in media and we're doing things differently.

[Carol Markowitz]

Normally is about real conversations, thoughtful, try to be funny, grounded and no panic.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

We'll keep you informed and entertained without ruining your day.

[Carol Markowitz]

Join us every Tuesday and Thursday Normally.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.