Hour 3 - The Five Things Email

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 3 - The Five Things Email
Release Date: February 27, 2025
Host/Author: Premiere Networks
Description: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics, and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.

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Summary

1. Introduction to the Episode ([00:30] - [01:33])

The episode kicks off with Clay Travis introducing Ryan Graduski, a guest who hosts the podcast "It's a Numbers Game" within the Clay and Buck network and writes a Substack newsletter. The primary topic for discussion is Ryan's latest Substack article titled "Trump's Gold Visa is Bad Policy," which critiques former President Trump's proposal for a $5 million visa program intended to replace the EB5 visa.

2. Trump's Gold Visa Policy: Legality and Comparison to EB5 Visa ([01:34] - [07:43])

A. Legality Concerns ([01:34] - [03:54])

Buck Sexton begins by outlining the legal challenges surrounding Trump's Gold Visa proposal. He emphasizes that the president lacks the unilateral authority to create new green card processes without legislative backing. Buck criticizes the comparison to the EB5 visa, highlighting that the EB5 requires significant investment ($800,000 to $1 million) in low-income areas and mandates the creation of jobs for American workers. He also points out the existing issues with the EB5 program, such as fraud and misuse.

Quote:
Buck Sexton ([02:08]): "The President does not have the power to create a new green card process all on his own."

B. Total Addressable Market and Financial Impact ([03:54] - [07:43])

Clay Travis interjects to question the feasibility of the Gold Visa program, specifically focusing on the total addressable market. Buck cites a study by the Cabin Research Institute, stating that only approximately 1.8 million individuals worldwide possess $5 million in liquid assets necessary to qualify for the visa. He further critiques the potential financial influx, suggesting that even with optimistic participation, the projected $5 trillion revenue would be swiftly exhausted by governmental spending habits.

Quote:
Buck Sexton ([05:30]): "Only 2.6 million people worldwide have that kind of money, and a third of them already live in the United States."

Clay contemplates whether allocating any funds from the program directly to debt reduction would offer any tangible benefits, though Buck counters that without deficit neutrality, the program would exacerbate the national debt.

3. National Debt and Potential Solutions ([07:43] - [13:02])

A. Debt Concerns and Current Policies ([12:08] - [13:02])

Clay shifts the conversation to the broader issue of the United States' national debt, estimated at $36 trillion. He expresses concern over the long-term implications and seeks Ryan Graduski's input on viable policies from either party that could address the debt.

Buck responds by dismissing alternative proposals like cryptocurrency solutions, emphasizing that legislative action is paramount. He advocates for comprehensive reforms, including Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and Department of Defense restructuring. Additionally, Buck mentions the importance of reducing governmental expenditures and halting unnecessary international policing.

Quote:
Buck Sexton ([12:08]): "You have to have Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security reform. You have to have reform the Department of Defense. You have to stop policing the world."

4. Employment Security and Government Roles ([13:02] - [28:38])

A. Personal Experiences with Job Loss ([24:13] - [27:37])

The discussion transitions to personal anecdotes about job loss. Clay shares his experience of being fired from Abercrombie & Fitch due to unreliable call-ins, while Buck recounts being laid off from a sports website amidst company acquisitions. They highlight the emotional and financial turmoil that accompanies unemployment, regardless of the circumstances.

Quote:
Clay Travis ([25:10]): "I will tell you this, so that's kind of a little bit funny. I will tell you this, though, when 2011, 2012... we had been fired, the entire company."

B. Government Employees' Job Security ([28:29] - [32:38])

The conversation delves into the concept of "forever jobs" within the federal government, comparing them to tenured academic positions. Clay and Buck critique the perception among some federal employees that their roles are unassailable, arguing that such a mindset is outdated and counterproductive. They discuss ongoing court battles where the government attempts to enforce job security despite legislative measures to the contrary.

Quote:
Clay Travis ([27:37]): "I think the national debt is the biggest threat that America faces because the more and more it grows, the less we can allow the country to flourish."

5. Epstein Documents Release and Government Accountability ([28:38] - [33:26])

A. Overview of Document Releases ([28:38] - [31:19])

Clay and Ryan address the recent release of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein by the FBI. Ryan references a tweet by Representative Anna Paulina Luna, stating that the released documents were merely Epstein's phone book and expressed disappointment over the lack of substantial revelations.

Clay counters with a letter from Pam Bondi, indicating that the FBI holds thousands of pages of additional, undisclosed Epstein-related documents, which are scheduled for release imminently. This discrepancy fuels speculation about the completeness and significance of the released information.

Quote:
Clay Travis ([31:15]): "Despite my repeated requests, the FBI never disclosed the existence of these files."

B. Speculations on Epstein's Role ([32:04] - [33:26])

Clay speculates that Epstein may have been an intelligence asset, suggesting that this angle is underexplored in public discourse. He questions the oddities surrounding Epstein's death in a high-security prison, including malfunctioning surveillance cameras and the guards' inattentiveness at the time of his suicide.

Quote:
Clay Travis ([32:26]): "Who dies in a supposedly very secure prison where it's supposed to be impossible."

6. Media Representation and Government Dynamics ([33:26] - [36:41])

Clay criticizes mainstream media outlets like MSNBC and CNN for portraying federal employees who lose their jobs as extraordinary victims, arguing that job loss is a common experience for most Americans. He underscores the disconnect between media narratives and the everyday realities of employment.

The hosts also touch upon the broader issue of media bias and the erosion of trust in media institutions, reinforcing their stance on the importance of honest and straightforward reporting.

7. Additional Discussions and Highlights ([36:41] - [37:39])

A. Scott Jennings' Commentary ([36:41] - [37:14])

Clay and Ryan briefly discuss Scott Jennings, a conservative commentator known for his adept handling of multiple opposing viewpoints simultaneously. They praise his ability to maintain composure and professionalism amidst aggressive and often hostile interactions from liberal counterparts.

B. Floyd Mayweather's Endorsement of Trump ([37:14] - [37:39])

The episode features a segment where Floyd Mayweather expresses unwavering support for Donald Trump, declaring him "the best president we've ever had." This endorsement underscores the growing trend of diverse public figures aligning with Trump, reflecting a significant "vibe shift" in political support.

Quote:
Floyd Mayweather ([36:41]): "I think Trump, this is a great president. One of the actually, he's the best president. In my eyes, he's the best president we ever had."

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Key Takeaways

• Legality of Trump's Gold Visa: The proposed $5 million visa program faces significant legal challenges and lacks legislative support. Its feasibility is questionable given the limited number of potential participants.

• National Debt Crisis: Comprehensive reforms across multiple government sectors are essential to address the growing national debt. Reliance on alternative financial solutions like the Gold Visa or cryptocurrencies is insufficient without legislative action.

• Employment Security: Job loss remains a pervasive issue affecting both private and public sectors. The notion of "forever jobs" within the federal government is criticized as unrealistic and detrimental.

• Epstein Documents and Government Transparency: The release of Epstein-related documents raises questions about government accountability and the potential concealment of crucial information.

• Media Bias and Public Perception: There is a growing distrust in mainstream media, with perceptions that media narratives often misrepresent common experiences such as job loss.

• Political Endorsements and Vibe Shift: High-profile figures like Floyd Mayweather endorsing Donald Trump indicate a broader shift in political support, cutting across diverse demographics.

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Notable Quotes

• Buck Sexton on Legality:
  "The President does not have the power to create a new green card process all on his own." ([02:08])

• Buck Sexton on Total Addressable Market:
  "Only 2.6 million people worldwide have that kind of money, and a third of them already live in the United States." ([05:30])

• Clay Travis on National Debt:
  "I think the national debt is the biggest threat that America faces because the more and more it grows, the less we can allow the country to flourish." ([27:37])

• Floyd Mayweather on Trump:
  "I think Trump, this is a great president. One of the actually, he's the best president... in my eyes, he's the best president we ever had." ([36:41])

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, the hosts engage in a comprehensive discussion surrounding Trump's Gold Visa proposal, its legal implications, and its potential impact on the national debt. The conversation seamlessly transitions into broader topics such as employment security, government transparency, and media trust, culminating in the observation of a significant shift in political endorsements among public figures. The episode underscores the complexities of immigration policy, fiscal responsibility, and the evolving landscape of political support in America.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

Step into the world of power, loyalty and luck.

[Buck Sexton]

I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.

[Clay Travis]

With family. Cannolis and spins mean everything. Now you want to get mixed up.

[Buck Sexton]

In the family business.

[Clay Travis]

Introducing the [e-mail] test your luck in the shadowy world of the Godfather slot. Someday I will call upon you to.

[Ryan Graduski]

Do a service for me.

[Clay Travis]

Play the Godfather [e-mail] Welcome to the family.

[Buck Sexton]

No purchase necessary.

[Clay Travis]

VGW Group void.

[Buck Sexton]

We're prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply.

[Ryan Graduski]

Third hour clay and V kicks off now and our friend Ryan Graduski joins us. He's got the podcast It's a numbers game in the Clay and Buck network. Also writes a fantastic substack, which you should subscribe to. Speaking of his substack, here's the latest. Trump's Gold Visa is Bad Policy. I saw this in my inbox this morning and I talked to Ryan. I said, you know, Ryan, there's somebody that I know quite well who thinks it is not bad policy, who is very excited about this and I want to just let you two step into the Thunderdome over it and I get to just eat the popcorn and watch. Clay says that you can, you should just exactly what you think about this policy. You will not hurt his feelings. Clay is not a not a thin skinned individual when it comes to the gold card policy. So take me through your argument here because I to be fair, yesterday I said, you know, I don't love it, I don't hate it, I see some problems with it. Clay thinks, amazing. You think not a good idea. Why?

[Buck Sexton]

So the policy that Trump sits there and says, first of all, one, there's legality problems, right? The president does not have the power to create a new green card process all on his own. So how does he sit there and offer a green card process? It would be through some kind of wrangling that Biden had with illegal immigrants to basically offer them a pathway into the country legally, illegally, have a $5 million hold. It doesn't really make sense and it's not something a lot of wealthy individuals would do because there's a lot of legality problems. That's first of all, secondly, he says it's to replace the EB5 visa. The President does not have the ability to end visas on his own. That's another problem with it. The EB5 visa, which is what people are comparing this to, is a visa that if wealthy people can invest 800,000 to $1 million in this country and hire Americans in low income areas. 10Americans income areas. They can get EB5 visa, a green card and citizenship and like a seven year process, a fast track to citizenship. But it's 800,000 to $1 million in low income areas. They can't have visas, H1B or H2B visas. There has to be 10American citizens over that time period. A lot of problems with the system, tons of fraud. You know, it's a big, big thing. Like Chuck Schumer loves it because he was able to get a lot of projects on Manhattan, which is not a low income area, but they drew districts into Central park anyway. Lots of fraud, lots of problems, lots of issues. So in his statement, Trump and the Secretary of Commerce, Howard Lutnick sit there and say the problem with the EB5 is there's too many regulations on it. We want an easy $5 million you get in the country, 1, 2, 3, with the promise that they'll bring jobs. Well, if there's no strings attached, well then there's no promise that they're going to bring jobs, only going to hire Americans. They could just create an LLC in Delaware, said they made a business, it doesn't really matter. Okay, let's say he doesn't. He's promising up to, Lutnick says 250,000 people, which is a $1.25 trillion payout to the American government. Trump says it could be 10 million to 50 trillion. First of all, there are not 10 million people in the world that have $5 million of easy capital. So the only way that they get 10 million people is if you have foreign government sponsoring people, which is problematic from national security.

[Clay Travis]

Well, let me pause you here for a sec because I did, I like this policy, but I'm not going to get into the back and forth right now because I do think one of the questions that I had that was most significant is what a lot of people would call a total, total addressable market. That is, Buck and I were debating, Ryan, how many people actually have $5 million liquid, right? That is, you could stroke a check for $5 million. You're saying there's only 10 million? Like where does that number come from?

[Buck Sexton]

So according to, according to the Helene Partners, right, this is 2024 of the wealthiest people in the world. 16 million people have $5 million. At least 30. Because if you have $5 million, a lot of it's tied up into your property, into your this.

[Clay Travis]

So that's why cut you off. That's why we said yesterday And a lot of people kind of push back that there's a difference between having a house that's valuable and being a millionaire and being able to write a check with $1 million liquid. What I asked, and I think this is important, sorry to cut you off, is $5 million. This basically means if you wanted to buy a painting, right, you're at a fabulous event, you could just stroke a check, $5 million, and that cash would be out in a week or whatever it is. Right. How many people can actually do that? Is, in some respect, the total addressable market.

[Buck Sexton]

Right. The Cabin Research Institute put out a study that said only 2.6 million people worldwide have that kind of money, and a third of them already live in the United States. So you're Talking about maybe 1.8 million people globally have that kind of money.

[Clay Travis]

That seems low to me, but that is, if that is accurate, then it would suggest the high end of this policy. Best case scenario is not actually very high.

[Buck Sexton]

It's not very, very high to begin with. And let's say they were to get a million people and get $5 trillion into the government's hands. $5 trillion is what we spend on the deficit every two years. We could, the Congress could piss away this money shorter than you could have Irish twins. That's how quickly we're spending money.

[Clay Travis]

I get it, Ryan, but wouldn't it be a good thing if it were possible to say, for every single dollar we bring in, in the event that there is a market for this, everything goes to paying down the debt. It doesn't go anywhere else. In other words. I get your argument. 5 trillion on a $36 trillion national debt, not a massive difference, but it's better than nothing, right? And right now, my argument, yeah, I.

[Buck Sexton]

Agree with you, but the problem is, I'm not talking the debt, I'm just talking the deficit. I'm talking what we will accumulate if we put it to the debt that will be back in 2027. Like, yeah, I would agree with you. If we were deficit neutral, I would 100% agree with you. That's a great way of paying down the debt. We're not deficit neutral. We run a $2 trillion debt. That's the, sorry, 2 trillion dollar deficit every year. So that deficit is going to replace this entire thing for a million people, plus their family members, which is a larger population that decided the last three presidential elections. So they will have a right to vote within five years. This is what Trump's saying. Fast track the citizenship right to vote anywhere he's saying China can apply for it, Russian oligarchs can buy for it. Anyone bin Laden family could apply for it. Anyone can apply for it. So they have 5 million in cash. They could apply for this gold card, visa, get citizenship in a five year period and be voting before JD Vance is running in 2020. That is what Trump is offering these people. This is and for, by the way, something that will not last toward the end of his entire first term.

[Ryan Graduski]

Question, right. About the do we, do we understand what the legality of this would be in terms of, you know, a lot of stuff, Clay. And I think I've seen this with some of the big executive orders and everything so far. It's going to go to the courts, right? We knew the anchor baby thing going to the courts. We know some of us are going to the courts. How would the president be able to do this without congressional action? Or would he need congressional action? It seems to me he would, yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

So the EB5 visa, we give out 10,000 a year. That's it. So he's basically saying we're going to increase the EB, we're going to replace the EB5 visa, increase all the numbers and increase the caps beyond the congressional limit. He doesn't have that authority at all. So that would be immediately in the courts. What he would do is do a parole authority, which is what Biden was doing and Obama was doing, to allow all these illegal aliens in. Parole was a presidential power for people who were like their parents were dying in the United States and they wanted to fly out, but they didn't have the correct visa. A president would parole a single person. And then under Obama, Obama started paroling millions of people and Biden even exacerbated the issue. Trump's been very against parole authority during his first term and during his second. That's really his only loophole. But there's not a legality into getting a green card from that. So you're asking very wealthy, high income people who could probably get a citizenship the long way very, very easily by saying we're going to short term it by this parole program that I don't really have legal authority to. So you're going to be in the gray zone for quite a bit of time while we settle this in court. I don't think a lot of wealthy individuals, unless they are sponsored by governments, which he did not sit there and say if he's against or for. He was saying anyone could qualify. Russian oligarchs, the Chinese, everybody. And by the EB5 visa. You cannot be, you cannot be sponsored by a foreign country. You have to have the cash yourself. That doesn't make any sense. Like there's no, there is no way to sit there and get, and get these kinds of people in if they're being okay being in a gray legal authority for a year or possibly his entire four year term.

[Ryan Graduski]

What do you like about what Trump is doing so far on immigration policy, Ryan? Let's take us, let's take this to a happy place for a minute.

[Buck Sexton]

No, listen, I agree. Other than the mass deportations, I like them. I hope they go out faster. I think, listen, if Trump gets the birthright citizenship case in his favor and he ends birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants, I don't care if he sleeps for the next four years. I don't care what he does. He will be one of the greatest presidents and most consequential not only of my lifetime, of the last century. This is one of the worst things that's going on in our country and has been for a long time. It's amazing that he's taking this huge, huge, huge gamble on this as part of his early agenda. That is great. But the problem with Trump with this EB5 thing, like with the Gaza Strip thing, is in his head, he's always kind of making a resort. So, yeah, you're going to make a resort in Gaza, you're going to sit there and make America into a resort and you just have to pay $5 million to sit by the pool and get a martini served to you. That is the fundamental issue. So you have Howard Luttnick, who's former Cantor Fitzgerald CEO, billionaire donor brain, who sees America as a transactional proposition. You have an issue. I believe America is for people who invested in this country not for $5 million, but for generations and built this country. And there's.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, so let me ask you that we agree with a lot of this stuff. Let me ask you this. What policies have you heard from a Republican or Democrat that are logical and make sense? That would you, that would make sense to get rid of some part of our $36 trillion debt? Because here's my concern, Ryan. I think of everything out there right now, to the extent that I am concerned about things for the next hundred years, long after everybody listening now is gone, I think our national debt is the biggest threat that America faces because the more and more it grows, the less we can allow the country to flourish and the more foreign nations can have entanglements because they own a substantial portion of our debt. So what have you seen? I'm just curious. This. The reason I like this policy is Trump's got a conversation going about trying to address it in a new way. What have you heard or seen? And you think, hey, this does make sense. Because I do bet you agree the national debt is a huge mess.

[Buck Sexton]

It's huge, huge problem. And listen, Doge and coins and gold visas are not going to solve the problem of Congress not doing the work. You have to have Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security reform. You have to have reform the Department of Defense. You have to stop policing the world. That is first and foremost. I think we should still be suing government of China for Covid. I think we should absolutely be suing for what they did to our nation during COVID and the rake of the debt that we did then. And I've heard things about minting a trillion dollar chip and sitting there and using that to pay off the debt. I've heard of a lot of different things. But Congress has to stop spending like drunken sailors. Nothing that Elon Musk or a Gold Visa or anybody else will do as long as Congress is there and spending spends us into oblivion. We have to stop letting Congress just endlessly sit there and just spend money. Bad money, good money. Chasing bad projects has to stop.

[Ryan Graduski]

Ryan Graduski, everybody. Clay, anything else? We good? All right.

[Clay Travis]

No, I mean, he's totally wrong on this. Congratulations on the baby, by the way. Do you have any tips for Buck on fatherhood as Buck will soon be a father in the next like six, eight weeks?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, you. Everything that you. A lot of your selfish, selfish needs all go out the window and you would lose the whole joke of you'll lose sleep is not a joke. You will just go days without sleeping like you think you will.

[Ryan Graduski]

So.

[Buck Sexton]

But good luck. I mean, it's great. It is great. But it is. There is no sleep. I mean, there's just no sleep for the first.

[Ryan Graduski]

A lot, a lot of sunshine and rainbows for Mr. Garduski today on the radio show.

[Buck Sexton]

I'm in one of those no sleep modes for several days.

[Ryan Graduski]

Yeah, go check out the It's a numbers game podcast on the Clay and Buck network and subscribe to Ryan Substack, the national populist newsletter. Mr. Go get some sleep. Thanks for joining us.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you.

[Ryan Graduski]

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[Clay Travis]

Just one man, it's many. The Team 47 podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck Podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Ryan Seacrest here. When you have a busy schedule, it's important to maximize your downtime. One of the best ways to do that is by going to chumbacasino.com Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino games like spin slots, bingo and solitaire that you can play for free for a chance to redeem some serious prizes. So hop on to chumbacasino.com now and live the Chumba Life Sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Apply welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show Appreciate all of you hanging out with us and appreciate Ryan Garduski coming on. What I give credit to Trump for is creating new ideas and I had never heard anybody talk about $5 million golden ticket. Now what Ryan and I started talking off about, I think is the key here. What is the total addressable market? How many people are able to pay that worldwide and how much money could that put into the United States treasury to help pay down our debt? That is the question that I would love to have the answer for because obviously the bigger that audience is, the better that product could sell. It doesn't matter what product you sell the tam the total addressable market for a product is to a large extent what will allow you to build or not Build a business. For instance, we have Crockett coffee. 70% of people drink coffee. If you are a coffee drinker, then you should, in my opinion, be consuming our product. But there's 30% of people that hate coffee. It's going to be really hard for us to sell two buck or don't drink it. That's a product that's not addressable to them. So crockettcoffee.com we love you. The total addressable market for this show, this radio show, probably 75% of Americans, if you're anything other than a far left wing crazy person, I think you could listen to this show and say, hey, I don't agree with everything those guys say, but 75% of the American population I think would listen and agree with a lot of what we say. That's a big market.

[Ryan Graduski]

Yes, just listen to us on the radio because we're so handsome, which you won't know if you're just listening. So how could you say that I'm wrong? How about that?

[Clay Travis]

We're incredibly good looking for radio guys. Humbly speaking, radio guys tend to be really ugly. And so as the radio contingent goes, we are incredibly good looking. That is, I, I will be honest. Compared to the average radio guy, we are supermodels. And that's not an endorsement of us. It's just really more of an attack on the average radio guy out there.

[Ryan Graduski]

I don't know why we got to throw radio under the bus like that. There have been some. There's, there's handsome, there's handsome radio guys out there. There's ple of them, there's very few.

[Clay Travis]

It's TV where you tend to be good looking. It is writing where you really tend to be heinous. And then there is radio, where you're a little bit in between the two. You ever sports writers? Sports writers. And I say this, I was impressed.

[Ryan Graduski]

With the, with the sports writer brigades I've seen at those SEC games. Those guys, they like their, they like their foot long sandwiches, you know what I mean?

[Clay Travis]

The sports writing community, if you ever walk into a press box, is the ugliest, most decrepit collection of media anywhere on the planet. I'll be honest with you. It makes like a CNN waiting room seem like you're, you're at Miss America, not a good looking collection of dudes. Speaking of sports, we got March Madness underway starting on Saturday. We are officially into March. If you love college basketball like I do, you can go to prizepix.com you can pay $5, you get $50. It's easy. You can play in California, you can play in Texas, you can play in Georgia. If you're feeling left out, I have got a fun game for you. You don't have to be a college basketball fan. You can be an NBA fan, you can be a major league baseball fan, you can be a hockey fan. Every sport is covered. All you have to do is pick more or less on two or more athletes. We'll give you a pick next week. And we have won our last two buck on college basketball. That's prizepix.com go get signed up today. Code clay for 50 bucks.

[Ryan Graduski]

Let's check in on our friends over at CNN for a moment here. Scott Jennings has risen to conservative commentary prominence through being especially adept at taking on not one, not two, sometimes three, four, I don't even know, maybe five CNN libs at once. It's a, it's a, it's an excellent thing to watch. It's like a tightrope walk. It's stepping into the, the, you know, the lion's cage as the lion tamer. All, all that good stuff. I mean what he is doing is really entertaining and he deserves the credit that he's getting for always handling it well, handling it in a gentlemanly fashion because the libs, they fight, they fight dirty and they say mean, nasty things and they always want to get a arise out of you. And he's doing a great job. But this was an interesting exchange that he had with a, with a fellow that I only know his, his name is Ture. So kind of like Pele or, or Madonna or Ronaldo, like one name only.

[Clay Travis]

Which is, you have to be really, really famous to decide you only go by one name. I'll just point out like it's really aggressive move when no one has any idea who you are to try to become a one name person.

[Ryan Graduski]

I would agree with that and I'd say this gentleman who used to be on an MSNBC panel show years ago that did not last. I think we should know what his last name is. But that's ok. Irrespective of that, Scott Jennings made short work of his arguments. This is how it went. Sit back, relax, enjoy. Cut 12. Can we be real for a moment that Doge is not about cutting money, Right? It's not about spending. It's about shrinking government so that it'll be too small to stop Trump with whatever else is in this plan.

[Buck Sexton]

Why would the government, why would the government stop Trump? Isn't he the head of the Government. You're saying the government will be too.

[Clay Travis]

Small to stop Trump.

[Buck Sexton]

If Trump's the president, why would the government, the bureaucracy, be actively trying to stop him? Because they want to.

[Clay Travis]

Shredding the Constitution and creating an authoritarian dictatorship, that's why.

[Ryan Graduski]

Okay.

[Buck Sexton]

And we're already suggesting leadership. The concept that the military should be an independent agency or that the bureaucracy should resist the political leadership of this government is extraordinarily dangerous. That's literally not what we said. I'm just repeating back to you.

[Clay Travis]

You're over.

[Ryan Graduski]

I thought it was interesting, Clay, because Mr. Ture said something that is very much a belief of the Democrats, but they generally don't say it out loud, which is, we control the government, even when we don't control the government. That's the way this game is played. Trump wins. It doesn't matter. The government's there to stop him from running the government. This is really a central thesis of this moment for the Trump administration, which is that's not allowed to be the case anymore because it's not supposed to constitutionally be the case.

[Clay Travis]

It was interesting when we were up for the inauguration, we went out to dinner or lunch, I think it was with one of your friends who is still working inside of the federal government. And we just kind of had a generalized conversation about the fact that many of these federal employees, they believe that they're going to outlast, by far, any administration. And so they just have to kind of put their head down, muck it up as best they can for four years until somebody else they like more comes back in. And that, really, I think, is the game plan of government employees, by and large, who were overwhelmingly indexed in D.C. did you see the video of the woman, Buck, who was saying, when Elon Musk asked me to write five things that I did, I suddenly knew, and I'm paraphrasing her, what it was like to live in North Korea. And my. My thought is, and I know many of you out there will recognize this, pay attention to what MSNBC and CNN are doing. They are covering any federal worker who loses his or her job as if they are incredible victims. I have been, I bet a huge percentage. This would be a good test. What percentage of our audience, Buck, do you think has been fired from a job at some point in your life? Whenever you got your first job, starting at 16. Until you work. Let's say you work till you're 65. I would bet well over half of the average American has been at a company. Certainly if you're in the Private sector, where you've gotten. It's happened to me.

[Ryan Graduski]

Are we making a distinction. Are we making a distinction between fired and downsized or let go or fired?

[Clay Travis]

Yes. No, I'm saying, like, you are just adding a job and for some reason your job doesn't exist anymore. It could be that you have done something and they're like, you gotta go. That's traditional firing. But also the company downsizes. I've been fired. I've been let go, I guess is a euphemism that could apply there.

[Ryan Graduski]

I tend to be. I tend to have been in a position where I've had to leave places under duress as the walls were caving in and the place was on fire and just made it out kind of like. Kind of like Indiana Jones when the boulder's rolling toward him. So I've been chased out of a couple of places, but haven't technically been given the boot. But. But if I had stayed around longer, it would. I would have been toast.

[Clay Travis]

I've been fired multiple times and let go however you want to classify it. Not as a result. Well, once as a result of my.

[Ryan Graduski]

Come on, come on, Clay. Come on, Clay.

[Clay Travis]

I got fired. I got fired from Abercrombie and Fitch. Remember when I said I worked there when I was in. When I was in college, I was supposed to call in. This is the pre. Internet to a large extent, every, like Saturday night and find out what time I was supposed to show up on Sunday. I didn't have a cell phone until 2000, whatever, 2001. And so sometimes I would call in on Sunday morning, maybe after having had a fun night out on Saturday night. And they would be like, yeah, you were supposed to be here an hour ago. And the final straw was I got football tickets to go watch the Redskins. And I was like, you know, this job is not necessarily a job that I love. And so I called in and that's the only time I think I've ever been fired from a job for, like, them being angry at me. But I will tell this, so that's kind of a little bit funny. I will tell you this, though, when 2011, 2012. The reason I started Outkick was because I got let go along with everybody else that was writing at a sports website. Deadspin was right before Fan House. Deadspin now doesn't exist, but I left Deadspin Fan House. I loved it, Buck. It was a huge site. They had probably 150 employees. And I went in, I guess it was early in 2000, 2011. Early in 2011, I went in, turned my phone off to go talk on a panel about the future of sports media in the Tennessee Titans stadium. When I turned my phone back on, Buck, all of us had been fired, the entire company, because they had sold the site to somebody else. And they said, we already have our employees. You're going to get paid. I think I got paid through, like, March. And that's when I ended up starting outkick because I decided then and there I didn't want my family's future to be determined by some bean counter that I didn't know. I was working my ass off. I loved it. My point on this is it sucks. And I bet a huge percentage of you have dealt with this at a company where you're working your ass off, you're doing everything you can, and then through no fault of your own, the rug just gets completely pulled out from. You can be under your feet, you.

[Ryan Graduski]

Can be subject to just market conditions, industry. And it's painful and it feels. And it is unfair. Right? I mean, that's the. We can say about. We can talk about things being unfair. It does feel, because it is, I think, unfair when you lose your job and you've done nothing wrong. But I think what you were getting toward before is what I call the forever job mentality, which is when you go to the federal government, you have a forever job. And that has been. That has been rattled right now in a way that they are absolutely not used to. And there are people who clearly think that while they work in the executive branch, they don't work for the executive branch. How does that work? So Congress funds positions, but the people in those positions can't be fired. That's not. That's not a job. I mean, that's like a tenured professorship like this.

[Clay Travis]

This is absurd.

[Ryan Graduski]

So this is why. And there have been some people who have been fired, and courts have upheld that, I might add. And there's a lot of. It's tough to keep up with them. There's a lot of court battles going on right now where people are trying to stop. There's jurisdiction shopping going on. These universal injunctions coming down from a random federal judge. They're doing everything they can to slow down what Trump is doing here with the cuts. Can I just take something here for one second, Clay, for everybody? Yeah. Remember how I said at the top of the show, and I was just being. Just being honest, that the Epstein thing was not going to be interesting, particularly, and there's a lot of fanfare and there's a lot of people talking about it. Representative Anna Paulina Luna, who is part of the Congressional task force, look into this. This is what she just tweeted out from her account, shared from her account. I nor the task force were given or reviewed the Epstein documents being released today. And a New York Post story just revealed the documents are simply Epstein's phone book. This is not what we or the American people ask for. A complete disappointment. I'm just, you know, I sit here and I tell you guys how it's going to be, and I'm right. You know what I mean? I'm not saying you disagree with me, Clay. I just mean in general, a lot of people, oh, this is going to be the bombshell. No, it's not. If it was going to be the bombshell, trust me, we'd have known in advance what was going to be in the bombshell. They're not just going to release it to a few people who went to the White House. I'm not saying this isn't important to get out there as part of the more public record, but I trust Anna Paulina Luna when she tells us this is a nothing burger. That's what I told her. And people got mad at me. Why do you think it's going to be a nothing burger? Because I know.

[Clay Travis]

I will say there's a letter that has just been written by Pam Bondi and she says that the New York FBI field office is in possession of thousands of pages of documents related to the investigation and indictment of Epstein. I'm reading from her letter that just went live. Despite my repeated requests, the FBI never disclosed the existence of these files. By 8am tomorrow, she is saying the FBI will deliver the full and complete Epstein files to her office. Records, documents, audio video recordings, materials related to him and his clients. Regardless of how such information was obtained, there will be no withholding or limitation to my or your access. This is a letter directed to Cash Patel. The Department of Justice will ensure that this disclosure is done. So she has now charged Cash Patel with ensuring that the FBI New York office turns over thousands of pages of additional documents.

[Ryan Graduski]

But.

[Clay Travis]

So that just happened. So far, what was released today. Not news, not important.

[Ryan Graduski]

Yes, not news. As I said, that may be. Now. Now, see, I will tell you on the other side there. There might be some interesting stuff in those FBI files in New York because clearly the FBI did not want those to get out that could be interesting. But the stuff today is essentially already just public record from the court transcripts and from the court Documents that has now been put out there once again. So, you know, I'm just. Just calling balls and strikes here. I want to get to the bottom of this. I want. We need to know what happened here. There's so much that stinks to high heaven about the way the government handled the Epstein stuff. You know, what he did is monstrous, criminal, evil, all that. But the government let him get away with it for a very long time. A very long time.

[Clay Travis]

I still feel like he was an intelligence asset. I feel like that's the part of this story that we're not getting. None of it makes sense.

[Ryan Graduski]

Our intelligence asset or somebody else's intelligence asset?

[Buck Sexton]

Maybe not.

[Ryan Graduski]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

And to your point, the story here is still what happened to all those documents that the FBI could have gotten, and then suddenly they vanished?

[Ryan Graduski]

Who keeps videotapes in a safe which is hidden in a wall in their home? Unless there's something really important on those tapes? Hmm. Seems weird to me.

[Floyd Mayweather]

Right?

[Ryan Graduski]

Who also keeps surveillance equipment all over their house so that they have video of what's going on, particularly in the bedrooms of the house, and then keeps those tapes in a locked safe that the FBI gets and does not want. That's very strange.

[Clay Travis]

I'll give you another very strange thing. Who dies in a supposedly very secure prison where it's supposed to be impossible.

[Ryan Graduski]

The only person to have ever committed suicide in the mcc, Ever.

[Clay Travis]

And when they came to look at the video of what exactly happened? The video wasn't recording. That's what happened. When Epstein supposedly killed himself.

[Ryan Graduski]

One of the guards was asleep, or maybe they were both asleep.

[Clay Travis]

That guards fell asleep and the camera.

[Ryan Graduski]

And it didn't record.

[Clay Travis]

Yes. That seems. Seems suspect. They went to sleep at the exact time that he killed himself. And the cameras happened to not be working at the exact time he killed himself. I'm just saying that would not add up. That wouldn't. That wouldn't even pass plot points in a decent movie. Yesterday, heart wrenching day for Israel as the country laid to rest the Beavis family. Thousands of people lined the streets to pay their respects as the funeral procession made its way to a cemetery in the south of the country. Last night, New York City, the Empire State Building was lit up in orange to honor the family. But sadly, also yesterday in New York City, protesters forced their way into Barnard College and attacked an employee sending them to the hospital. All to stand up against Israel. Now more than ever, it's important we stand with our brothers and sisters in Israel. That's what the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews the IFCJ does. They support people all over the Holy Land. And they also want you to know anti Semitism isn't just a Jewish problem, it's a threat to all of Western civilization. And that's why the IFCJ needs you to join us in their fight. Your ongoing monthly gift of $45 provides critically needed aid to communities in the north and south devastated by the ongoing war in Israel. But also it provides hope during a time of great uncertainty. Bless Israel and her people by visiting SupportIFCJ.org that's one word, SupportIFCJ.org you can also call 888-488ICJ. That's 888-488ICJ. Sometimes all you can do is laugh. And they do a lot of it with the Sunday hang. Join Clay and Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay and Buck podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back in play. Travis Buck Sexton Show Appreciate all of you hanging out with us and we are powering through Thursday edition of the program. We mentioned earlier trust in media had hit an all time low, but that we are dealing with a really interesting time where people that I didn't anticipate as being big Trump supporters continue to come out and illustrate, Buck, that the vibe shift is real. The latest did you see this? Floyd Mayweather, maybe the greatest pound for pound boxer in modern memory. That is in the 21st century. I don't think he ever lost a fight. He went on Fox Business yesterday and he said Donald Trump's the best president we've ever had. Listen to this. I will pull it up in a sec. It's on the list. But while I pull that up so we can play it for everybody, the actual fact that we're getting so many people who may not necessarily have been particularly political in the past is I think industry just indicative of the overall crazy vibe shift that we have seen. It's cut 17 guys.

[Floyd Mayweather]

I'm happy, but we're never happy. When we had, we had Trump before, we didn't appreciate him. But I think Trump, this is a great president. One of the actually, he's the best president. In my eyes, he's the best president we ever had. Great business, a great businessman. And that's what it's about. Trump has done an amazing job and a lot of people around America are upset. But no matter who goes in the White House, we're always upset. Right? And I think Trump is the man for the job. He's the best president in my eyes.

[Clay Travis]

There you go, Buck. The list of people that are jumping on the Trump train of a variety of backgrounds, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, continues to grow. Sports in particular, seems to be represented in a high level. Be back with you tomorrow. Have great Thursdays. We'll close out the week with you tomorrow.