Hour 3 - The N Word

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 3 – The N Word
Date: December 8, 2025
Podcast Host: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the societal, legal, and cultural implications of the use of the N-word, particularly in the context of a recent Portland legal case. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton discuss the boundaries of free speech, the rise of word-based justifications for violence, and the wider dangers of conflating speech with physical harm. Their frank and provocative debate analyzes precedent, hypocrisy, and the “words as violence” argument. Callers and listener feedback contribute to a lively discussion about legal standards, cultural double standards, and broader American attitudes toward offensive language.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Supreme Court Headlines & Presidential Power (02:35)

• Clay Travis briefly riffs on media framing about the Supreme Court's potential to expand presidential power, arguing that legal precedents affect all presidents, not just Trump.

2. The Portland Case: Homeless Stabbing and the N-Word Defense (05:32)

• Summary:
  Clay presents a recent case in Portland where a black homeless man was acquitted after stabbing a white homeless man. The defense argued the violence was justified because the victim used the N-word.
• Discussion:
  • The hosts view this as a “litmus test” for American attitudes about permissible speech and its consequences.
  • Clay connects this logic to the broader trend of justifying violence against figures like Trump or Charlie Kirk due to their speech.

3. Delving Into Free Speech and Social Rules (07:43)

• Buck's View:
  Buck criticizes the idea that there’s a single forbidden word in English, especially one that (depending on who says it) can even be censored in literature or official proceedings:

  “There is only one word in the English language that if you are white, or, I guess, if anyone who is not black ... you are not allowed to say in any context whatsoever ... That is absurd. That is wrong. And that should change.” (07:43)

• Clay’s Support:
  Clay concurs, relating a personal anecdote about being forbidden to accurately quote Muhammad Ali in his own book due to his (Clay’s) skin color:

  “The publisher called me and said, you can’t use that word in your book because you’re a white guy.” (12:47)

• Buck condemns “bending the knee to a form of censorship based upon skin color.” (08:56)

4. Violence in Response to Words: Legal and Ethical Analysis (10:43)

• Buck:
  • Denounces the legal and moral logic that saying a slur justifies violence:

    “We live in a First Amendment society ... There is no exception in the law for, ‘You said hate speech. You should get stabbed.’” (09:44)

• Clay:
  • Emphasizes the “dangerous precedent” such verdicts set, blurring the line between words and violence.
• Mutual Conclusion:
  • Both hosts argue that violence is not a legally or morally acceptable response to offensive language, no matter how egregious.

5. Broader Trends: “Words as Violence”

• Clay’s Argument:
  • Warns of a rising societal belief, especially on the left, that words themselves are violence and thus can justify real violence:

    “We have allowed a world to exist where now a jury is actually willing to vote not guilty entirely based on ... word choices.” (15:59)

• Buck:
  • Points to cases of people being prosecuted or attacked for merely uttering banned words, suggesting this signals a deeper cultural rot.

6. Callers React: Drawing the Line and Double Standards (21:37–36:44)

• Caller Gene from Rhode Island asks whether the judge could have overturned the Portland verdict (21:37)
  • Clay and Buck explain that judges very rarely overturn criminal acquittals — only in cases of juror misconduct, for example.
• Caller Ryan from Columbus, Ohio asks where the line is drawn:

  “So where do we draw the line and who draws the line on speech that qualifies as violence?” (27:14)

  • Clay and Buck argue this points to the heart of the matter: distinguishing between words and violence is essential. They connect the issue to extreme jury biases in highly political cities.
• Caller Trucker Mike in Arizona points out the double standard:

  “If someone calls me white trash ... does that give me justification to stab them ...? It’s the same damn thing.” (31:11)

7. Social and Racial Double Standards (35:15)

• Popular culture and music:
  • Clay and Buck note that the N-word appears routinely in rap music but can ruin a white person’s life if they repeat it (even while singing along).
• Buck's Critique:

  “So they can do it all the time, but you do it, your life should be ruined. No, I’m sorry, Disagree, disagree.” (35:30)

• Discussion of how young people quoting rap lyrics or reading classics like “Huck Finn” can face social consequences or cancellation.

8. Context, Fairness and the Absurdity of Banned Words

• Clay uses George Carlin’s classic ‘Seven Dirty Words’ to underscore the absurdity of banning words outright, regardless of context.
• Clay:

  “Defining word use without analyzing context ... words are used in context to analyze ... Violence should not be the response.” (34:08)

9. Historical and Legal Context: Jury Rules and the “Fighting Words” Doctrine (24:43, 28:47)

• Explanation of why criminal acquittals can't be overturned by judges (except in extreme situations).
• Buck brings up Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942) — the "fighting words" legal doctrine — but argues that society has moved away from that, and words alone don’t justify violence.

10. Broader Takeaway: Defending Speech, Rejecting Censorship and Violence

• Both hosts urge a return to the principle: “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” They warn against societal infantilization and the trend toward criminalizing offensive—or merely unpopular—speech.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Buck Sexton (07:43):
  “That is bending the knee to a form of censorship based upon skin color ... It’s wrong.”

• Clay Travis (12:47):
  “The publisher called me and said, you can’t use that word in your book because you’re a white guy.”

• Buck Sexton (09:44):
  “There is no exception in the law for, ‘You said hate speech. You should get stabbed.’ And people need... This needs to stop.”

• Clay Travis (14:45):
  “If you are willing to buy into the idea that a word can keep somebody out of prison and even justify the attack, then you’re willing to say words are violence, which I think is a strong premise of the left in this country right now.”

• Caller Trucker Mike (31:11):
  “So if someone calls me ... white trash ... does that give me justification to stab them ... It’s the same damn thing. It’s just asinine and stupid.”

• Clay Travis (34:08):
  “Violence should not be the response [to words] ... this goes to: are we going to treat adults like adults or are we going to run shrieking in the opposite direction when words ... are considered to be unacceptable?”

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 02:35: Episode topic begins; media coverage of Supreme Court/presidential power segue into discussion of words and violence.
• 05:32: Clay describes Portland stabbing case and its broader implications.
• 07:43: Buck criticizes the uniquely forbidden status of the N-word.
• 10:43–12:58: Discussion on violence in response to words, quoting controversies.
• 14:45: Clay links Portland verdict to larger trend: words as violence.
• 15:33: Analogs in school playgrounds and disorderly conduct cases.
• 21:37: Caller Gene on judge/jury powers in verdicts.
• 27:04: Caller Ryan on speech vs. violence and drawing legal lines.
• 31:11: Trucker Mike calls out racial double standards.
• 32:22: Caller Brandon recalls discomfort reading Huck Finn, noting importance of context in history and literature.
• 35:15: Hosts discuss double standards in pop culture, rap music, and comedy.
• 38:19: (New segment tease) Australian social media ban for under 16; left for future episode.

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Tone & Language

The hosts maintain a conversational, unscripted tone. Their style is direct, opinionated, sometimes irreverent, and aimed at an audience valuing blunt discussion and skepticism of political correctness. Both encourage debate from callers and push back against perceived societal absurdities.

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Summary Takeaway

Clay Travis and Buck Sexton argue forcefully that words—even the most offensive—do not justify violence, and that current social trends and legal decisions undermining this principle are dangerous. They denounce what they see as cultural and legal double standards, urge the importance of context, and call for a restoration of adult standards and free speech protections in American life. Callers reinforce the theme by pointing out hypocrisy and logical flaws in treating words as violence.

Transcript

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[Clay Travis]

U n D welcome in our number three Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. As I look up on My quad box screen here, headline at cnn. Supreme Court says it will give Trump more control of government. Signals it will give Trump more control of government. Supreme Court poised to expand Trump's power is the cron on Fox News. On MSNBC, Congress split over deadly boat strikes. So MSNBC, I guess it's MSNBC, now, Ms. Now MSNBC. Crazy people still trying to go after Pete Hegseth. The other two are actually more interesting. But the contextualization of it from both CNN and Fox News I would actually take issue with only in the context of it's not really Trump getting more power from the Supreme Court, it's the president and every president from here on out, which is why the precedent should matter. If you want Obama to have more power, if you want Trump to have more power, if you want presidents that we don't know, President Gavin Newsom, President Kamala Harris, God forbid, maybe J.D. vance, maybe Marco Rubio, whoever the presidents will be for the rest of our lives, they will all have the same power here as Trump. And I do think, as we were finishing off the last hour, this is a seismically substantial story as it pertains to how all of this will play out. But couple of stories that are out there that I saw you tweet about this buck, and it seems not necessarily like a huge story, but I actually want to have a discussion because I bet you feel the same way as me. I think it actually goes to the essence of what is and what is not acceptable to say in America and what justification that then befalls you can be utilized when it comes to what you have said, when it comes to violence. And I see. I see this story as directly connecting to Charlie Kirk. I think it directly connects to the Trump assassination attempts because at root, and I'm curious if you would sign on for this. I think you probably would. The reason why Charlie Kirk was assassinated and the reason why they tried to kill Trump was because of what they say. Uh, there was in the case of both assassins and a belief that the opinions of Trump, the opinions of Charlie Kirk, were unacceptable. And henceforth violence could be justified as a result of what they said. This is now becoming orthodox belief in many parts of America. And I thought this case that you shared, that I was reading about over the weekend, crystallized it. And you may have more specifics. But here's my generalized.

Case, criminally of what happened. I believe this was two homeless people in Portland, in the Portland area, got into a dispute.

One guy happens to be black, stabbed. Another guy happens to be white. And the black guy's defense, again, these are both homeless individuals. To my best understanding, both, it appears.

[Buck Sexton]

Drug, I believe on unhoused is now the preferred nomenclature.

[Clay Travis]

Unhoused, I'm going to stick with homeless. I think it's easier to say. But, yes, this would be unhoused. When I grew up, we called them.

[Buck Sexton]

We call them bums.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Everyone would just say, he's a bum or a vagrant. Now it's different.

[Clay Travis]

Homeless, I think, is actually kind of kind and accurate. And so these two homeless guys who it appears, are, as has often been the case of late in Portland, addicted to drugs. And they've made use of drugs far easier in Portland, which almost everyone. Criminal drugs, almost everyone has acknowledged has made things worse. Less safe, more. More decay, more decrepitude. All of it is bad. And even in Portland now, they're saying, hey, maybe we shouldn't be making it easier to shoot up with illegal drugs. And maybe criminalizing drug possession and drug use was actually a good idea. All of this discussion ongoing. Okay, Buck, so two homeless drug addicts are in a fight. One homeless drug addict stabs the other one. And there is a dispute. There's an acknowledgment. It's on video and there's audio. And you can hear at least post stabbing, one homeless guy, the white guy using the N word. Then you have a defense that was offered of the homeless black guy that because of the N words, use that in some way, his violence, the stabbing, was justified. Jury found him not guilty. So this is. Again, some of you may not have seen this story. You might not have been exposed to it, but I do think this is a real litmus test case. And you shared a tweet, which I agree with, but I think your overall take is.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I completely disagree with the really zealously enforced standard that there is only one word in the English language that if you are white, or, I guess, if anyone who is not black, there's only one word that you are not allowed to say in any context whatsoever to include if you are a court stenographer reading back what someone else has said, or if you are reading a transcript of what someone else has said, or if you are reading from a novel and the words of the author include, you are not allowed to say it. That is absurd. That is wrong. And that should change. Now. This is not to say that you should use that or any slur to refer to any person. The usage of a word is different than you can never even say a word.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

If you say A word. You're a bad person. That is bending the knee to something that we should. That is bending the knee to a form of censorship, by the way. A form of censorship based upon skin color.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

Which is. It's wrong. And now people can try to argue. Anyone who tries to argue this to me, they end up losing.

[Clay Travis]

They're wrong.

[Buck Sexton]

Because it's absurd. The whole thing. It's an absurd. This is like the people who are arguing. Putting your mask on for walking to the table during COVID somehow kept people safe when you then sat there for two hours. No, you're just wrong. This thing of you can't say a word ever is. So I just want to get that out there. It's wrong. That doesn't mean that you should call anyone. Any nasty word, but particularly any racially inflammatory word. No, that's a wrong thing to do. But I'm talking about. You just can't say it. You can't. In fact, it's so powerful that if you were found to have said it in any context, you know, 15 years. People get mad at Quentin Tarantino now. Do you know this, Clay?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Because the characters in his movies use.

[Clay Travis]

The word too often.

[Buck Sexton]

That's what. That's what this has come to. Everyone needs to grow up. There are words that you shouldn't use to talk about people, but there are contexts in which you need to be able to say any word in the English language. The use of a word is inherently not a bad thing, no matter what. Sorry, that's just not. That's not reality. So people need to grow up on this a little bit. Okay. Beyond that, this is also really the only word that I am familiar with where people will argue that violence against you, if you use the word, is somehow justified. That is also wrong. We live in a First Amendment society. We live in a country where people are allowed to say words, including mean and naughty words. And there is no exception in the law for. You said hate speech. You should get stabbed. You said the naughty word, so you should get stabbed. And people need. This needs to stop. And we need to stop dancing around this thing where we don't make the argument based on print. This is a clearly a principled argument.

[Clay Travis]

So.

[Buck Sexton]

And by the way, these two people on the. One of the guys had, like, a horrible. The guy who got stabbed, I think had a horrible conviction on his record for.

[Clay Travis]

Yes, like, chops. These are not, you know, these are not stellar representatives of American life.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, this is. This is not about picking a side in this. Okay? These are two bums who got into a fight. But the notion that a jury would excuse the stabbing of somebody because he said a naughty word is wrong. That is crazy.

[Clay Travis]

It is wrong.

[Buck Sexton]

It is immoral, and it is against our legal system.

[Clay Travis]

And again, it was. The jury in Portland refused to convict a guy for stabbing another person because basically, the argument is, when you get insulted in that way, you can't control yourself to the extent that theoretically you could get away with murder. And look, there are lots of words we can't say on this radio program because we're governed by the fcc. Now, you could have an argument about whether in this day and age, FCC restrictions on what you and I can say and can't say should still exist. If we utter curse words, there could be fines.

[Buck Sexton]

I disagree, by the way.

[Clay Travis]

I disagree with that, too. I do, too.

[Buck Sexton]

I completely. But we. We serve you who listen. And we wouldn't use those words because.

[Clay Travis]

Some of you are with your kids.

[Buck Sexton]

Some of you just prefer that people not use words like that. So we would. I wouldn't use them anyway, Clay. But I disagree that a federal government agency should be picking which words can and cannot be said over the airwaves. I disagree with that.

[Clay Travis]

So I have the same.

[Buck Sexton]

But I'm still bound by it, right? So, like, this is the. Like the other rule we're talking. I'm still bound by that social rule that everyone else is bound by. I disagree with it.

[Clay Travis]

Two books ago, I wrote a book called Republicans Buy Sneakers, Too. I quoted Muhammad Ali and he said, ain't. And this is a ballpark. You know, no one's ever called me a racial slur in. In Viet Cong. No Viet Cong's ever called me a racial slur. And I quoted that in the book. The publisher called me and said, you can't use that word in your book because you're a white guy.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, that's what this is. What I mean, that's the absurdity. I even. I forgot you told me about this. Yeah, that is the absurdity of this. There's only one word where this is the case. People need to grow up, okay?

[Clay Travis]

And I grow up.

[Buck Sexton]

Words exist. People say words in certain context. You are held responsible for the context of the words you use. Not just a word. That's crazy.

[Clay Travis]

Using the actual quote is a significant part of understanding the quote and being able to analyze the perspective. Because I was writing about the 1960s civil rights era era in sports and how it impacted the modern era. And I said, no, I'm not going to do that and we got into a huge dispute, went all the way up to multiple levels of the publishing house over whether Muhammad Ali could be quoted accurately in my book without dashes. Because my argument was, wait a minute, the F word is a quote. Like, we're not dashing it out. You know, there are other curse words. Adults can read a book. And I think the use of the actual quote is important here. And so this is the step beyond word policing. This is using words. A jury in Portland said, hey, this word was used and therefore violence was justified. This, to me, is exactly the left wing argument for Charlie Kirk or President Trump.

[Buck Sexton]

I don't see I clay, insofar as those are. Charlie Kirk and Trump are political. I mean, they represent a political movement ideology. It's not just the usage of a naughty word.

[Clay Travis]

But if you're willing to kill someone for what they say, then you are presuming that words are violence, and therefore violence can be responsive to it. This jury logically heard a bad word was used and violence was justified in response to it. There are many people on the left who heard the arguments that Trump and Charlie made and they justified violence against.

[Buck Sexton]

But the president also signs executive orders that actually use state power. I mean, that there's a whole lot more than just the words that Trump uses.

[Clay Travis]

Totally. But you don't think that the motivation to kill the president and try to kill him was based on his arguments and the justification for why that was okay. Same thing for Brett Kavanaugh is.

[Buck Sexton]

But I'm saying there's. There's an action component to Trump that I think we also. I mean, there's. There's massive actions to being president. It's not just worse words, right?

[Clay Travis]

No, it's a little, truly. But the justification to kill is if you are willing to buy into the idea that a word can keep somebody out of prison and even justify the attack, then you're willing to say words are violence, which I think is a strong premise of the left in this country right now. I think we have to push back against it.

[Buck Sexton]

I think there's a closer analogous case right now, isn't there a woman who is being prosecuted for disorderly. She's like a. Like a playground mom. Like a mom on the playground. And she called the kid.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

I think she said the word you can't say. Right? She said the word you can't say. And now they're prosecuting her for disorderly conduct, but they're really just prosecuting her for saying the words you can't say. Right?

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

This is what's actually so I disagree with this. I disagree with this.

[Clay Travis]

It's wrong across the board. And by the way, if you happen to be a Trump supporter and somebody says something naughty to you, you don't get the right to stab them, you don't get the right to shoot them. Words are not violence. And we have allowed a world to exist where now a jury is actually willing to vote non guilt, not guilty entirely based on this was self defense because of word choices. And we're not even sure the guy said it beforehand. They only have him on video saying it afterwards. So he got stabbed and then he insulted the guy.

[Buck Sexton]

There are a lot of examples you could point to where people, especially if they get into a fight, things escalate, it gets really violent and if it involves somebody who is black, there will be a claim of oh well, he said a racial slur because yeah, that if you said he called me, you know, a stupid, you know, a stupid head or even, you know, a bleeping bleep or whatever, that won't. But if you use the naughty word and you got stabbed or shot, well then, then, then you were asking for it. No, that's wrong. So you and I see this totally the same way on that. I don't and I don't know why I think this is one of these last areas where there's still people are, there's still like a little cringing around it like oh, but, but, but no but that word. No again, if you call someone that word you're a jerk and you're doing something that is unethical and wrong. But we shouldn't have a situation where you have to have it removed from your book where you're quoting somebody else. That, that's crazy. This makes no sense. This is just, this is some kind of bending the knee to like a left wing power structure in this country and we shouldn't do that.

[Clay Travis]

Agreed 100%. You know what you could do? You could play along sports with us at Prize Picks, price picks.com code clay. You get $50 when you play $5. I'm going to give you a pick on Thursday. If you like the NFL, if you like college football, if you like college basketball, NBA golf, whatever your sport is, whatever your jam is, prize picks.com code clay. That is prizepix.com code clay. You can get hooked up with $50 when you play $5. You can play in California and play in Texas. You can play in Florida. 40 plus states, 13 million people playing. You'll love it, you'll have some fun. A little bit more fun even than you already [e-mail] Code Clay $50 when you play $5 sign up today and get $50 deposited into your account at prizepix.com Code Clay news you can count on, and some laughs too. Clay Travis at Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Clay Travis]

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[Clay Travis]

Your listening enjoyment, one of my many.

[Buck Sexton]

Selections of Mannheim Steamroller on the playlist for this year's holiday season.

[Clay Travis]

Very excited.

[Buck Sexton]

There's more. Hand selected by yours truly, Manheim all the time. I'm excited about it and some other things also. We'll be playing for you as well. We have some talkbacks, we have some calls and let's get to it. Here is Gene in Rhode Island. What's going on?

[Caller]

Gene, hi.

[Washington Post Advertiser]

I was wondering, could the judge have.

[Caller]

Overturned that verdict in Portland?

[Clay Travis]

Oh, that's a great question. That actually goes to the specifics of. I think the answer would be no, because I think the jury look, they.

[Buck Sexton]

They basically usually, usually a judge can set aside a jury verdict, but they're very, very unlikely to do so unless there's a really clear cause, I think.

[Clay Travis]

But while that usually judges overturn verdicts more so in civil cases than they do criminal cases because they want the jury to make the decision in a criminal case. And here what is basically being argued is that this individual felt the need to engage in self defense because of the racial slur. A strong jury said.

[Buck Sexton]

I got one for you. Here you go. A judge in Oregon, in Oregon X comes through right away, can overturn a criminal jury verdict through a judgment of acquittal if there's legally insufficient evidence for a conviction or if the verdict violates constitutional rights.

[Clay Travis]

But that's the very rare, that's a conviction. An acquittal is very rarely overturned because the judge wants the jury to be able to make the decision. I can't ever remember a case in my mind where a judge said the.

[Buck Sexton]

Jury didn't have the right to cannot overturn a not guilty verdict. You're right on that one. Cannot overturn not guilty.

[Clay Travis]

You got a little bit of a legal lesson there, Gene, but that's the answer. We'll talk more about this because we're getting a lot of reaction pouring in from it. In the meantime, just after Thanksgiving, PureTalk introduced a limited time offer on the best price ever for unlimited data, calls and texts. 29.95amonth for life. Whether you're 21 or 81, the price is the same 2995. Pure Talk's top tier plan. Normally 65 bucks a month, now just 29.95amonth. You're saving 50% a month, every month, all into the future. Make the Switch today. Dial £250, say Clay and Buck, for Pure Talk's best unlimited plan for just 29.95amonth for life. Again, £2 5 0, say clay and buck to switch to Pure Talk. Taxes and fees not included. Some restrictions apply. That's £250, say clay and Buck. Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton SHOW we were just talking about the jury verdict in Portland and it's important to in the hey, two homeless guys get into a fight. The black homeless guy stabs the white homeless guy. Black homeless guy is charged with a crime probably. I haven't seen a breakdown of the jury, but based on the population in Portland, almost certainly a substantially majority white jury says, hey, you know what? That's justified. Because they bought the argument that the white homeless person had called the black guy a. The N word. Now.

We had a caller, Gene, who was like, hey, could the judge toss this? The answer is no. Almost never can a judge toss a not guilty verdict. And there are only very limited exceptions. For instance, if a defendant bought off a juror and we became aware, then the case would not get the not guilty verdict, would just lead to a new trial. You wouldn't be able to say, actually, this guy's guilty. Now, again, this gets into the weeds. There are cases where judges can. You'll have a motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict, where the judge can look at it and say, the evidence does not support a conviction, but it can only be beneficial to the defendant. Not something where the judge suddenly waves his magic wand and says, I'm deeming you guilty because you have right to a jury trial. Now, I asked Buck off air. I was reading about this recently.

Why do we have 12 jurors? I don't know how many of you have ever thought, sat around and thought, why is a jury standard, especially in criminal cases, 12 jurors, the derivation legally appears to go all the way back to a British king in the 8th century who said, hey, because of the 12 apostles, 12 is the right number. So we are going to have 12 because it used to be. And this was like really kind of a tough time. They would just let the trial be, hey, we're gonna throw you in the, you know, we're gonna throw you in the water. And if you don't sink, then God is Saying you're innocent. If you sink, then God is saying that you're guilty. Instead of a jury of your peers, they would have so called trial by sometimes you had to carry around a, you know, like a hot scalding iron in your hand. And if you. I mean this crazy stuff that used to go on. But around the 8th century a king in England and then this was codified into the colonies in through common law, which for those of you out there who don't know most of American common law is rooted in British jurisprudence and has grown into its own.

Legacy of the law here in America. A bunch of people with comments out there.

Ryan in Columbus, Ohio is asking what is a logical response to the precedent set in this case. Ryan, fire away.

[Caller]

Hey, I'm just curious. So where do we draw the line and. And who draws the line on speech that qualifies as violence? You know, am I justified in violence if someone calls me a racist or Nazi up until and including killing someone?

[Clay Travis]

This is the question, right? And this is why both Buck and I find it so important to distinguish between words and violence. And remember here, this is significant. It's the jury that bought the argument. So you can say that's not surprising.

[Buck Sexton]

At all by giving a Portland jury. I mean this is. They believe this is a left wing belief. You have to believe this. Like this is.

[Clay Travis]

Well, this is why the defense attorney went with this version of his defense for his client because he believed that this jury would be susceptible. So you can be upset at the result. I think it's a ridiculous result. But understand that 12 jurors in Portland found this to be compelling, which is why honestly this ties in with my argument, Buck, about why we have such kangaroo court Systems in Washington D.C. you have the same kind of super left wing jurors in Washington D.C. which Democrats have used to rig the political process by using all of their prosecution in federal courts. In Washington D.C. you do not get a jury of your peers. This is not a normal group of people. This is far left wing ideologues who will throw you in prison. We just saw it with all the Jan6 cases.

[Buck Sexton]

I think there was. What was it? Clay Japlinski v. New Hampshire, which was the fighting words Supreme Court fighting words doctrine where there are words that can immediately provoke violence. This ended up being not overturned specifically, but jurisprudence changed after this. When this is one of the earlier 1942 case.

Unprotected speech. I, I disagree. I disagree with that. I don't. I think people can say the meanest words they want to say you're not allowed to knock their teeth out in response. Sorry.

[Clay Travis]

And most of us were raised in the. I don't know. I, I have used it with my kids. I don't know how many kids they use it with today. But I bet, Buck, you were raised with sticks and stones. May break my bones, but words will never hurt me. I, I mean, every kid, at some point in time, comes to mom or dad, somebody has said something super mean, super unkind. The reality is words can hurt, words can harm. But this is, I think, the essence of one of the issues that we're getting wrong with. The whole concept of coddling the American mind is the idea that if someone says something that you find to be hurtful, that the way to handle that is by shutting down their right to speech.

And Ryan and Columbus is asking that question, which I think is a good one, which is, how do you draw that line? Ultimately, the jury said basically, it's a get out of jail free card. If a racial slur is used, no black man can restrain himself. It's actually insulting, I think, to black men because it presumes that they don't have the willpower to deal with people saying mean things to them and must act irrationally and violently as a result. That's the entire premise of, of the defense here.

[Buck Sexton]

Bill in New Jersey GG A W O R listener Play it.

[Clay Travis]

I don't know what it was like when you guys were growing up and you're quite a bit younger than I.

[Buck Sexton]

Am, but when I was a kid.

[Clay Travis]

The line was, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. We need a little more of that around the world these days. I didn't even see that. Talk back. He's preaching to the choir. That's exactly what I just said. Trucker Mike in Arizona, we love when our truckers reach out says. And he has a premise that is not dissimilar to the caller. We just had FF Let me get this straight.

[Caller]

So if someone calls me, I'm a white man. I don't care what color I am, but just let you know I'm a white man. So someone called me white trash cracker, a honky, trailer trash tweaker, whatever. Does that give me justification to stab them and injure them? It's the same damn thing. It's just asinine and stupid. I agree with you guys 100%.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, totally.

[Clay Travis]

Looks pretty good. Pretty good logic a lot of times, Buck. Pretty good common sense.

[Buck Sexton]

Sometimes people say mean things to truckers in Traffic, it happens.

[Clay Travis]

So.

[Buck Sexton]

And they realize that they just have to keep on trucking. They can't stop and beat them to death because they don't like the thing that the guy said to them from the windshield of his Hyundai or whatever.

[Clay Travis]

And sometimes truckers get behind buck sexton driving 24 miles an hour in a 45 and they may even say mean things to Buck. But that doesn't mean. As they sit there having to constantly hit their brake because Miss Daisy is driving in front of them.

[Buck Sexton]

I just, I just, I'm glad that some of us care about safety on these roads, you know? You know, not all heroes wear capes. Some of us are a little heavy on the break.

[Clay Travis]

Brandon in Milwaukee. HH what you got?

[Caller]

As far as that word goes, I remember back in high school having to read Huck Finn. And even when that word came on the paper, you felt uncomfortable saying it. And it should be uncomfortable because it's a terrible word, but completely getting rid of its existence, I think it's kind of dangerous because then. And it doesn't highlight how terrible the times were when that word was popular. So gotta be careful.

[Clay Travis]

I think that's a good. And look, I would just go back in time. George Carlin is dead now. I think George Carlin, legendary comedian, would have been fairly classified. Some of you can correct me if I'm wrong as a left leaning comic. Right. In other words, I think his politics would have tended to lean left. Maybe I'm wrong, but he did his entire. Was it seven words you can't say basically on television, which by the way, we still can't say on the fcc. And it became very, very popular in the parlance, I believe, in the 1970s because it illustrated the absurdity of trying to define words and how they're used. Context matters, you know, words are used. I mean, some of the most popular rap songs in America use the n word 20 times in a, you know, two minute mo. In a two minute clip. And nowadays college kids have, you see, you see this happen all the time. Some college kid is on video doing karaoke, rapping along to a popular song. It's not intended to be a racial slur. And then the next thing you know, people are trying to cancel them or they go on social media and they post lyrics to a popular rap song. And the next thing you know, 10 years later, somebody's like, oh my God, can you believe what this person posted when they were 14? Defining word use without analyzing context. I mean, think about this, Buck. There's a huge difference between the way we use the F word, it can be a compliment that was, you know, as an adjective, you know, effing unbelievable. As a positive, it can also mean an insult. Right. We use context to analyze. But whatever words you use, this should be something that all adults should be behind. Violence should not be the response. Now if someone says there are exceptions to. This is the angry words thing, Buck. If somebody says I'm going to kill you and they start to reach into their waistband and you think to yourself, oh my goodness, they may have a gun. A words that are accompanied by action that would suggest violence might be coming can be a legitimate self defense mechanism. So, but that's not word standing alone. It's words in the context of the possibility of a threat of physical violence. And I would just say all of this goes to are we going to treat adults like adults or are we going to run shrieking in the opposite direction when words that appear in our delicate ears are considered to be unacceptable?

[Buck Sexton]

But this is also, you know, that there is no real ethical standard being applied here because the word is so terrible. But some people can use it but.

[Clay Travis]

But, but in super popular songs that make them tens of millions of dollars.

[Buck Sexton]

Right? Yeah, I mean a lot of comedians for the last three, two or three decades that, that's like the favorite word that they use when they're on stage all the time. But so they can do it all the time, but you do it, your life should be ruined. No, I'm sorry, Disagree, disagree. Just flatly think that that is a, that is a social, really a socially enforced law of sorts that is, is wrong. It's just wrong. So, and I. The only way that it's going to get broken, unfortunately, and this is going to really is that people are going to start to be more liberal with it, with the use of that word. And some people who are liberal with it, by the way, are not going to be good people who are doing it in a well intentioned way. But they're going to hide me. They're going to say, see, double standards. I'm breaking the double standard by you. You know, this is how these things go. You know, the censorship and these things, it does not end. It does not end the way that the people in charge of the censorship usually wanted to. All right, look, if you believe in the life of a child, an unborn child, then you share my anguish thinking about what's happening to children's lives lost to abortion day in and day out. Nearly one in four pregnancies ends this way. But there's a nonprofit on the front line, saving as many lives as possible.

[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

Their network of clinics have saved 350,000 babies year to date. The preborn clinics across the country provide unconditional support and love for pregnant moms who are making that difficult decision. But they start them off with care, love, support and a free ultrasound. Because once mom meets her tiny baby in the womb through that ultrasound, the game has changed and life becomes so much more likely. And they have numbers to back this up. This is how they're saving so much, many lives. $28 is the cost of an ultrasound. Your tax deductible donation can be the difference between life and death for a tiny baby. Have you, have you donated to Preborn? I have and I know my donation is being used to save lives. Your gift of $28 a month or if you have the means, there's somebody out there who could do a leadership gift this holiday season. Remember, this is tax deductible. Preborn is an A plus rated charity and you could donate an entire ultrasound machine to a preborn clinic with $15,000. I know that's a lot of money and times are tough, right? I'm not talking to all of you. I'm not talking to one or two people in this audience right now who could donate a full ultrasound machine to a preborn clinic. Think of how many thousands of babies that would contribute to saving over the life cycle of that machine. To donate, dial £250 and say the keyword BABY. £250 say BABY or donate [e-mail] Buck preborn.com Buck sponsored by Preborn making America.

[Clay Travis]

Great again isn't just one man, it's many. The Team 47 podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Watch it on prime video starting January 8th.

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[Buck Sexton]

U n D Close enough Shop on Clay and Buck. What are you getting for the holiday season? How about some Crockett Coffee, everybody? How about even we sweeten the deal? Some people are saying, please sweeten the deal for me. We get you a signed copy of Clay's American I'm sorry, the other one, Balls. There was American Playbook which was also fantastic. But you get a signed copy of Balls. Subscribe to Crockett Coffee. Go to crockett coffee.com and we can make that happen and you'll be very happy. But also you'll be getting delicious coffee and you'll have it right to your home and you can go on the website. It's a beautiful website. The most beautiful website and you'll see the people love it. The people love the coffee on the website. And there we have it. Go to crockettcoffee.com please subscribe today. Clay am I is there any other deal that I'm we have the Black Friday deal, which was fabulous, phenomenal. Lots of you bought.

[Clay Travis]

We want you to go to crockett coffee.com go sign up, get it done. We love all of you who have signed up. We are not affiliated. This is quite the pivot with Jasmine Crockett, who CBS News is reporting has filed her paperwork to run for the Senate in the state of Texas. So that news, I think she's going to have a press conference a little bit later today. My bet is that we will be talking about it some because it's March, so it's here in four months, three months, basically, you're going to be able and going out and voting for your representatives in the primary, both Democrat and Republican. And there's been a real battle on the Republican side, but now there's going to be a real battle on the Democrat side. And I bet everybody out there is hoping that Jasmine Crockett is the nominee because I believe there is a zero percent chance that she could win statewide office in Texas. But to me, Buck, this is indicative of her trying to become a bigger force in the Democrat Party in general. And there will be a spotlight on the Senate race in Texas and she is deciding to put her name more firmly into the camp. Here's a prediction. I bet she runs for president in 2028. Even if she loses the Senate race, I think she will put her name in and she will try to run to be president of the United States.

[Buck Sexton]

I think, like I've said, there's nothing but upside for her to do so. Kamala, not to keep going back to this, but Kamala and I'm not feeling awesome about my prediction these days because of the polls that I'm seeing. But I will say with her, Clay, it's just a question. Do they want to move on past the Biden mess? And can they find can the machine find some way to buy her off, so to speak, to make her stand aside so they can have a free because otherwise things between her and Gavin Newsom will get very messy. There's, there's a I could see why Democrats wouldn't want her. This is my thing. I wouldn't want her involved. Jasmine Crockett, why not? Raises her brand, raises her value in the political marketplace as a, as a name, you know, name recognition. So, yeah, I'M not surprised.

[Clay Travis]

We'll talk about that tomorrow. We also tease. Let's get into this tomorrow. We can have some fun with it. But because I do think it's a good debate and I think it's an interesting one, I bet there's a lot of parents, grandparents, maybe even teenagers out there that want to weigh in. Australia has banned everybody 16 and under from being able to use social media. Good move, bad move. We'll discuss because I do think it's a significant decision that could have parallels in other countries. Thanks, all of you. We'll be back with you Tuesday.

[Trainer Games Narrator]

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Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000.

[Clay Travis]

This is where mindset comes in.

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Someone will be eliminated.

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[Clay Travis]

Watch it on prime video starting January 8th.

Shh.

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