Hour 3 - Trey Gowdy’s Viral Gun Comments

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 3 – Trey Gowdy’s Viral Gun Comments
Date: August 28, 2025
Host: Clay Travis & Buck Sexton
Guest: Trey Gowdy (former Congressman, FOX News commentator, author)
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the viral reaction to Trey Gowdy’s recent comments about gun violence and school shootings, made during a FOX News appearance. Clay and Buck dig into current crime policy, gun control debates, and challenges facing American cities, with special attention to the politics around law enforcement and public safety. Trey Gowdy joins mid-hour to explain and defend his statements, sparking a heated but respectful exchange on the limits of legislative solutions to mass shootings, parental responsibility, and the reality of balancing freedom and public safety.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Parent Responsibility and Emotional Manipulation

• The show opens with Clay reflecting on a tough caller's story about parenting and the emotional blackmail parents often face regarding difficult social issues.
• Insight: There is a disconnect between emotionally charged political advocacy and logical, experience-based parental guidance.

  “So much of being a parent is oftentimes having to tell your kid something that they don’t have enough experience about... your job is to get them as healthy as you can to 18 and 19 years old when they become adults of their own.” — Clay Travis (01:07)

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2. Economic Update & Shifting News Priorities

• Clay briefly delivers good news on the economy: GDP growth outpaced expectations, and inflation rates are nearing the Fed’s target.
• Buck emphasizes that despite economic progress, media attention is consumed by crime and the Minneapolis shooting:

  “Stocks have never been higher basically than they are right now in Trump economy 2.0.” — Buck Sexton (03:46)

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3. Crime in D.C. & The Politics of Public Safety

• Recent Trump initiatives taking over the DC National Guard and Metro Police have led to sharp crime reductions—88% drop in carjackings, according to Mayor Muriel Bowser.
• Clay and Buck debate why Democratic leaders struggle to publicly credit Trump for these improvements.

  “The mayor, Mayor Bowser would like DC crime to be lower and she’s very pro. She wants more business investment and she wants safer streets... Good for her.” — Clay Travis (05:17)

• Buck cites an Associated Press poll showing 99% of Americans see crime as a major or minor issue in big cities, highlighting the disconnect between Democratic narratives and public sentiment (06:59).

Memorable Quote on Crime Stats:

“Maybe Trump is just right about this issue and it’s better if there’s less violent crime. Buck—87% decline in carjackings. That is flat-out extraordinary.” — Clay Travis (08:57)

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4. Gun Control Debate: Trey Gowdy’s Viral Comments

Recap of Gowdy’s Viral Fox News Appearance (20:41)

• Gowdy argued for a serious conversation balancing freedom vs. protecting children, and identifying shooters or restricting access to firearms for at-risk individuals.

  “Our system is reactive. Something bad happens, we react to it…The only way to stop it is to identify the shooter ahead of time or keep the weapons out of their hands. And so we’re going to have to have a conversation of freedom versus protecting children.” — Trey Gowdy (20:41)

The Interview: Buck & Clay Question Gowdy (21:48–37:44)

• Parental Responsibility: Gowdy maintains that many mass shooters display obvious signs, but parents are often unwilling or unable to intervene.
• Defining Mass Shootings: Gowdy takes issue with the FBI’s broad definition, arguing that not all “mass shootings” are the same. He focuses on attacks like Columbine or Sandy Hook.

  “I consider a mass shooting to be Sandy Hook, Columbine, Uvalde, what happened in Tennessee…Completely innocent targets.” — Trey Gowdy (24:13)

• Legal Barriers: Gowdy outlines existing prohibitions (mental illness adjudications, restraining orders, felons, undocumented status) and says enforcement—not new laws—could be more effective.

  "You have to enforce the laws that you currently have, which we are not doing." — Trey Gowdy (32:56)

• No Perfect Solution: The hosts push Gowdy for a concrete, workable proposal that preserves rights and prevents tragedy. The exchange grows tense, with Clay and Buck suggesting Gowdy’s viewpoint overlaps with left-wing “gun grabbing” talking points.

  “I think the answer is, there is no answer for is there a law that will balance freedom…with the need to protect the public and stop something like this.” — Clay Travis (28:26)

The Hangup and Recovery (35:34–37:44)

• Gowdy inadvertently disconnects, but returns for closing remarks, emphasizing the need for realistic, ongoing discussions, and promoting his book, The Color of Death, on homicide prosecution.

  “I want people to have a realistic view of what that’s like, because many series, movies and television shows don’t get it right.” — Trey Gowdy (36:14) "I think we all agree we would like a safer society without doing violence to our freedoms.” — Trey Gowdy (37:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Highlight | |-----------|--------------|----------------| | 01:07 | Clay Travis | “So much of being a parent is oftentimes having to tell your kid something that they don’t have enough experience about…” | | 06:36 | Trey Gowdy (Bowser clip) | “We greatly appreciate the surge of officers…this 20-day period…represents an 87% reduction in carjackings in Washington D.C.” | | 08:57 | Clay Travis | “87% decline in carjackings. That is flat-out extraordinary.” | | 20:41 | Trey Gowdy | “Our system is reactive. Something bad happens, we react to it…The only way to stop it is to identify the shooter ahead of time or keep the weapons out of their hands." | | 24:13 | Trey Gowdy | “I consider a mass shooting to be Sandy Hook, Columbine, Uvalde…Completely innocent targets…” | | 28:26 | Clay Travis | “There is no answer…there is no law that will balance freedom with…the need to protect the public…” | | 32:56 | Trey Gowdy | “You have to enforce the laws that you currently have, which we are not doing.” | | 36:14 | Trey Gowdy | “I want people to have a realistic view of what that’s like, because many series, movies and television shows don’t get it right.” | | 37:06 | Trey Gowdy | “I think we all agree we would like a safer society without doing violence to our freedoms.” |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Parental Challenge & Emotional Appeals - 00:00–03:09
• Economic Update & Politics of Crime in D.C. - 03:09–09:46
• Crime Data/Comparison, DC Mayor’s Comments - 05:33–09:46
• Gowdy’s Viral Fox Segment Playback - 20:41–21:28
• Main Gun Control Debate w/ Gowdy - 21:28–37:44
• Gowdy’s Book Pitch & Closing Comments - 36:14–37:44

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Tone and Takeaways

• Direct, Unfiltered Debate: Clay and Buck both challenge Gowdy vigorously, especially on his remarks about “young white male” shooters and gun control, keeping the tone contentious but respectful.
• Nuanced Frustration: Trey Gowdy admits that no law can perfectly prevent tragedies like mass shootings but insists on the necessity of continuous, honest debate and better enforcement of current laws.
• Shared Vulnerability: All parties express pain and frustration with the country’s inability to perfectly safeguard children without sacrificing freedom.

  “It just breaks my heart as I know it does yours, to see dead, innocent victims.” — Trey Gowdy (37:06)

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Summary for Listeners Who Missed the Show

This episode dives deep into the politics and realities of gun violence prevention, using Trey Gowdy’s viral remarks as a springboard for candid discussion. Clay and Buck interrogate Gowdy’s position, positing that no feasible law currently exists that can perfectly prevent mass shootings while respecting civil liberties. Gowdy, drawing on years of legal experience, argues for firmer enforcement of current gun laws, improved mental health interventions, and honest grappling with the tradeoffs all Americans must face between liberty and security. The exchange is heated but ultimately constructive, leaving listeners with insight into the difficulties and emotional toll of finding solutions to America’s most persistent public safety challenges.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in hour number three, Thursday edition, Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us as we roll through the program. Trey Gowdy from FOX News going to join us at the bottom of the hour. He's got a new book out scheduled for several weeks to talk. Come on and talk about us before his comments went viral and we'll play them for you. So for him, let him react to them. If you don't know, then you will find out at the bottom. Thanks to our caller, Lisa, who we just finished the hour with. I think that was tough to listen to hear, I think for a lot of parents and grandparents out there. But I believe that so much of this story, they have tried to prey on emotion over logic and they make you feel like you are the one who is the problem. And I do think if you go back and you listen to that call. And I appreciate her calling in and sharing her experience. So much of being a parent is oftentimes having to tell your kid something that they don't have enough experience about. And everyone out there who's a parent knows it. And they may not 100% listen to you, but your job is to get them as healthy as you can to 18 and 19 years old when they become adults of their own. And you try to limit decisions that can be incredibly debilitating that your child will make. And that can be really, in the grand scheme of things, not hugely significant necessarily. Hey, maybe don't drive the car really fast. Hey, maybe learn how to stop at a stop sign. Hey, maybe do your homework and get ready to take the SAT or the act, things that can get a college application done, things that you have to kind of ride your kids on. And we fight so hard to try to keep them on the right path to success. And then they tell you emotional blackmail. And you could hear it in her voice and you could feel the challenge that she was grappling with. And I think they have put sadly so many parents and grandparents in positions like we just heard Lisa in. So we appreciate her calling in with that in mind. There are other things going on in the world right now that than just what happened yesterday in Minneapolis. We have continued to talk about it. We've talked about it a great deal. But I did want to update you with a couple of other things that I think are very significant. First of all, good news on the economy. And this slid under the radar because there's so much attention right now on Minnesota and Minneapolis and everything surrounding that but Rick Santelli on CNBC this morning, it turns out second quarter GDP growth was actually even better than the forecast showed and inflation was actually even lower. That is we grew faster and things cost less than even we expected. Here is cut 24. This is what it sounded like on CNBC with Rick Santelli this morning.

[Clay Travis]

Our second walk around the block on GDP will underscore the tug of war in the economy between quarters that are weak and quarters that are strong. Import, exports, tariffs have a lot of push and pull. Based on some of the issues of the day, we are expecting this number to improve slightly. And the revisions our second look at second quarter GDP are now hitting the wires. 3% was our last look. It now jumps up to 3.3%. But from a comp basis that would still be the best quarter since September of 23Q23.

[Buck Sexton]

Okay, good numbers there. Inflation also lower than expectation back near the Fed's target rate of 2%. So I want to continue to update you on that in the context new record highs today at the S P500, new record highs at the Dow when it comes to the, the Dow Jones. Well, a little bit below the record. No. Yeah, I'm looking at right now in real time, Buck, math always a little bit below where the record high is. S&P 500 is setting a record high. That's very good for your 401k everything out there. Stocks have never been higher basically than they are right now in Trump economy 2.0. Also, I wanted to play this for you guys because one of the big stories of the last two or three weeks has been Trump taking over the national guard in D.C. taking over the Metro Police. And I got to give credit to D.C. mayor Muriel Bowser before I play this, Buck, you said on the show a couple of weeks ago, hey, I kind of think Muriel Bowser agrees with a lot of what Trump is doing based on some of the conversations you had had behind the scenes.

[Clay Travis]

I kind of know someone who knows the mayor really well and knew for a fact. So I wish I could, I, I wish I could say that I just read the tea leaves on this one. But this was spy, Buck. You know what I'm saying? This was me running, running assets behind.

[Buck Sexton]

Enemy counter, counter intel. You had knowledge that the mayor actually agrees with a lot of the Trump policies on will never say so like that.

[Clay Travis]

But yeah, the mayor, Mayor Bowser would like DC Crime to be lower and she's very pro. She wants more business investment and she wants safer streets which by the way Good for her. The fact she said that out loud though, in that way is telling you a lot about the politics of D.C.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, so we've got Muriel Bowser here. She is saying 87% reduction in carjackings which were one of the crimes that had skyrocketed in Washington D.C. and giving praise to all of the assistance now that exists in Washington D.C. cut 19.

[Trey Gowdy]

We greatly appreciate the surge of officers that enhance what MPD has been able to do in this city for carjackings. The difference between this period, this 20 day period of this federal surge and last year represents a 87% reduction in carjackings in Washington D.C. we know that when carjackings go down, when use of gun goes down, when homicide or robbery go down, neighborhoods feel safer and are safe, safer. So this surge has been important to us for that reason.

[Clay Travis]

You know, this reminds me, I feel like Trump should have a Colonel Nathan R. Jessup moment where he's just like, I would rather you just say thank you or man opposed. When it comes to the Democrats who have opposed Trump on this crime thing, they should just say, I mean especially the ones who live in D.C. they should just say thank you because he's right and it's helping and it's a good thing.

[Buck Sexton]

This is a stat that I thought was staggering. They polled the ap so this is not right wing poll you the ap, Associated Press did a poll. They said, do you think that crime is out of control, basically a major issue in big cities in America? 81% of people said it was 81% buck 18% said it's an issue, but it's a minor issue, not a major issue. So 99% of Americans say that big city crime is either a major 81% or minor 18% issue. 1% of people said it's not an issue. Democrats have hooked their, their, their wagon, hooked their horses to the wagon of crime is not that big of a deal. It's actually way better than you think. Trump is a dictator because he's trying to drive down crime. I just got to give tremendous credit to Trump for his political instincts and being totally and completely wrong on right on this. And I got to give Mayor Muriel Bowser this is how real politicians should work. I understand if they have disagreements, they have two different political parties. All those things. Conflict is not bad when it's rational, reasonable conflict about the direction that something should go. Crime should not be an issue of conflict. We should all, as you just heard me say, the AP says 99% of people say crime is either either a major or minor issue in big cities in America. Maybe. Maybe Trump is just right about this issue and it's better if there's less violent crime. Buck 87% decline in carjackings. Do you know everybody out there? Carjackings are an incredibly violent crime. You are using a weapon, generally speaking, to get someone who is in a car, dragging them out, forcing them out. Sometimes there are kids involved, babies. If you have car seats, it's not like you can easily get a child out. It happens every now and then. A carjacking where there's still a baby in the back of the car, you take off speeding, a carjacking typically isn't. Is really four or five crimes all rolled into one. To knock them down by 87% is flat out extraordinary. And again, I think this just shows that it's not a intractable, unsolvable problem. The question has just been, is there a will to actually address violent crime? And with Trump, there is.

[Clay Travis]

And we're seeing the results, which we knew what happened because it turns out what is obviously true is obviously true. Look at that.

[Trey Gowdy]

More.

[Clay Travis]

More cops, more resources, less opportunity for criminals to get away with things. You're going to get less crime generally. You get more of what you encourage, you get less of what you discourage. Discouraging the criminal element in D.C. from doing what they do is a good thing. And yet here we are, still having so many Democrats pretend that somehow there's something wrong with Trump's approach on this. In fact, it's worse than wrong. I mean, they think it is. It is, you know, evil. It is undermining our sacred democracy. They say all kinds of crazy stuff. Notice one thing you won't hear them say. We have a different plan to bring crime down. And the ones who are foolish enough to actually go there, like the mayor of Chicago, their answers, or rather their. Their planning, is laughable. More social workers has not, will not and never will assist in bringing down serious violent crime in any way you can measure and in any way that anybody would consider serious. So they don't have an alternative. So really what the Democrats have is because we don't want law enforcement to seem racist and because we don't want Trump to seem correct. And we certainly don't want to have to admit we're wrong. As Democrats, we would rather more people be carjacked, more people be shot, and bad things continue to happen in American cities than would happen if we just let Republicans like Trump do what they want to do and do what they know should be done. That's as simple as this is clay. That's it. You know, it's just like we said with the Biden border, you either deport people and discourage illegal crossings or you encourage it and you get 10 million people coming into the country. It's very straightforward.

[Buck Sexton]

I think deep down Democrats are like, oh wow, this is working because I think they really thought, oh, there's nothing we can do about crime. And I think they're starting to recognize when you've got 99% of people saying it's either a major or minor issue in big cities in America. I'm not saying the 1%. I'm trying to think of something that I would believe that I would be willing to go to the mat on that 99% of people would disagree with me. I'm not saying the 1% is always wrong. It's pretty hard to for the 1% argument to win. You know, if you have a honest in any way impartial media and I think Trump is winning and I think candidly even a lot of left wing journalists who claim that they hate Trump agree with him on the DC Crime related issue. We'll play some cuts by the way for you when we come back in a little bit from Caroline Levitt who had a White House press briefing in the last hour or so. Also encourage you to go sign up for the Clay and Buck podcast. That way you won't miss our guests in the first two hours. Mary Margaret Olhan, she was great on the failure to respond from Tim Walls in Minnesota and then Virginia governor win some steers but Buck, are you ready? First pick of the prize picks season right now. We got college football returning this weekend and I have picked three different players that I believe are going to go over over more on their production going on this weekend and big games. You got Texas going up against Ohio State. I am taking Arch Manning. Arch Manning, the latest stud of the Manning football playing quarterback, playing family. I'm taking him to throw for more than one and a half touchdowns in the game against Ohio State. Big noon kickoff game on Fox. Everybody in Ohio is going to be watching. Most of Texas is going to be watching Arch Manning. More than one and a half touchdowns. Noon Eastern kick on Saturday on Fox. Jeremiah Smith, same game, same game for Ohio State. The best wide receiver in college football. I am taking him to have more than 83 and a half receiving yards. So Jeremiah Smith, best receiver in college football, more than 83 and a half passing receiving yards. And then DeSean Bishop, he is a running back for Tennessee. Tennessee is playing against Syracuse. A battle of teams in Orange in Atlanta. Also an early kick. These are all noon eastern games. More than 1/2 rushing or receiving touchdown. If I am correct, you will pay off with those picks four to one. $20 will turn back $80. Five will turn you into 20. You go to prizepix.com right now. Use code Clay that's more on Arch Manning Passing touchdowns, more receiving yards for Jeremiah Smith, more Deshawn Smith Bishop rushing touchdowns or receiving touchdowns. Trust me, you're going to love this. When you play $5 you get 50. This pays off at 4 to 1 opening weekend college football prizepix.com my name Clay. That's prizepix.com C L A Y news and politics but also a little comic relief. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts this Labor Day.

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. Just a note, we got Craig Gowdy of Fox News, former Congressman. He's got a book out and he was on TV yesterday where he said some stuff and we're gonna ask him about what he was talking about on tv. So looking forward to talking to Trey Gowdy. We will have that discussion with it. We also want to remind you that we have Crockett Coffee, cracking coffee, some people are saying the most delicious coffee. But you can get it on Amazon now. Make it super, super easy. And if you would please buy Some on Amazon and give us a review there. A review of how delicious the Crockett coffee is. Remember, if you use code book when you buy@crockett coffee.com you can get a signed copy of American Playbook. But if you just want America's coffee that's absolutely delicious and 10% of our profits go to talented towers, Amazon couldn't make it any easier. Just put Crockett and you'll. You can even get it so it's sent to you every month there. So go for it. Crockett Coffee.com appreciate those you who are trying it. It is absolutely delicious coffee. And now we have VIP email from Steve Buck.

[Buck Sexton]

You're.

[Clay Travis]

You're running humans in the D.C. mayor's office. Humint, as in human intelligence. Right. I mean, I can neither confirm nor deny, but I can just tell you that I knew that the mayor was going to say what she said weeks before she or a couple of weeks before she said it. Because, yeah, I've got sources close to even some Democrats that hear what's going on.

[Buck Sexton]

I give her a lot of credit for being willing to. I can't believe we're here, but just being willing to say objectively true things, even if they happen to correspond with President Trump's decisions. There are most Democrats won't do it. And this is how it should be. This is what the mayor of Chicago should be saying. Hey, we want all the federal support we can get. We want to have a lower crime rate. This is what the mayor of LA should be saying. I don't know why you would turn down opportunities to drastically lower your crime rate if they were available to you. This is common sense. Every city in America should be begging for the president to offer as many resources to them as possible.

[Clay Travis]

Yes, this, this should be very straightforward. Reminds me in the, I think, underrated movie Boiler Room when he's teaching his new sales associates how to get someone to say yes. He's like, if you were drowning and I threw you a life preserver, would you take it? Yes. Okay, great. You know, like just getting it. Yeah, it's kind of like that with the crime things. Like, if I could help you get less carjackings, less murders, less robberies, would you accept it? And the answer for most Democrats is no. And that's why they have the lowest approval rating they've had, I don't know, ever as a party. Look, we've seen more than our fair share of natural disasters. Last week we dodged a bullet with Hurricane Aaron along the North Carolina coast. Lots of high wave conditions, but not enough to cause any loss of life or severe damage, thankfully. But it's a reminder. You got to be prepared, my friends. And when natural disaster strikes, are you going to be able to reach your loved ones? Are you going to be able to be in contact when you really need it? Rapid Radios delivers peace of mind when it matters most. These are modern day walkie talkies built to communicate on a nationwide LTE network. So distance is not a problem. I told you about what happened after the big hurricane that hit western North Carolina. They able to talk to my in laws the next day after all the trees were falling down, the floodwaters are rising. Talking to them like they were right next to me. Thanks to Rapid Radios. No monthly fees. Pre programmed simplicity. Rapid Radios keeps you connected when everything else goes dark. Trusted tested legit. Go to rapid radios.com you'll save 60%. Use promo code radio for an extra 5% off rapidradios.com go today.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton show. Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. We are. Do we have him? Okay. We have Congressman Trey Gowdy with us now. He's got a brand new book out. Appreciate him joining us. And Trey, I gotta start with this because everybody, we said you were coming on and they said are you gonna ask him about what he said yesterday on Fox News? And so we have this clip, you know, what you're walking into here. I was like, oh man, this timing was a hell of a timing here. So before we get into the book, before we dive into that, here is yesterday Congressman Trey Gowdy on Fox News.

[Trey Gowdy]

Our system is reactive. Something bad happens, we react to it. And what people are crying for now is how can we prevent this? How can we stop it? And the only way to stop it is to identify the shooter ahead of time or keep the weapons out of their hands. And so we're going to have to have a conversation of freedom versus protecting children. I mean, how many school shootings does it take before we're going to have a conversation about keeping firearms out? It's always a young white male. Almost always. I mean, did anyone this morning think, I wonder if that was a female? Did any of y' all think that? I mean, there's been one school shooting involving a female 1 Tennessee. But other than that, it is usually young white males.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, this is reacting live.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

And turn your mentions off, Trey. But what social media. Oh, you're not. That's, that's good for, that's good for you. Right now. Okay, with a day to reflect, what do you wish you would have said? Would you change any of the commentary that we just played there?

[Trey Gowdy]

No. I mean, obviously, if I had a longer format, which I had for 16 years, I could extrapolate on what that. What I meant by that. I mean, we have gun control. There are controls on who can have guns, where you can have them, and what kind of guns you can have. And I spent six years prosecuting gun cases and then 10 years prosecuting murder cases. My point was pretty simple, and actually, I don't understand the argument against it. By the time a murder takes place, we've already lost. Somebody's been killed. How can we prevent the murder? So you either focus on the shooter or you track the firearm. If you track this firearm, it was lawfully purchased. So I don't. I really defy anyone to say, knowing everything we know now, I would still sell three firearms to this shooter. Because what you're saying is that you're okay with what happened. You would not do anything to change it. Well, but on what.

[Clay Travis]

On what legal basis, Trey, would you not have sold the firearms to this individual?

[Trey Gowdy]

I think if you did, even a cursory review, from a mental health standpoint, this person doesn't need a pair of scissors or a plastic fork, much less.

[Buck Sexton]

Wouldn't that be. Sorry to cut you off, but wouldn't that be. I always come back to parenting. I don't understand how this person who is clearly mentally ill. I think most school shootings or most mass shootings in general, General. That are like these, someone is mentally ill. And so to me, I look at it and I say, mom or dad, just like with the crazy trans chick in Nashville and just like this crazy trans dude in Minneapolis. Mom and dad, if they were paying any attention at all, should have said, this person should not have access to firearms. I look at it as parenting. So, one, I want to get your thoughts on that. Secondly, the way we define mass shooting is. Is, I think, often broken, because most mass shooters are not young male white males. Like you said, it's mostly young black men who commit the vast majority of murders, who commit the vast majority of violent crime. So I do think a lot of people reacted not only to what you said, but you saying, hey, it's almost always white males.

[Trey Gowdy]

Yeah. When I consider mass shooting, I don't accept the FBI's definition of it. If you accept the FBI's definition, we've had, what, 700 mass shootings? So, you know, two rival gang shooting each other out over drug turf. I don't consider that to be a mass shooting. I consider a mass shooting to be Sandy Hook, Columbine, Uvalde, what happened in Tennessee, what happened yesterday, completely innocent targets that had absolutely nothing to do with whoever the perpetrator was. Las Vegas is another perfect example of what I consider to be a mass shooting. So the former prosecutor in me rejects the notion of how the FBI tracks mass shootings. The answer to your second, to your first question about parenting, we should do. I think we're in one accord there. The Crumley parents were prosecuted because they had either actual or constructive knowledge that their son was going to do something with a firearm at that school, and they wound up being prosecuted. So it always gets a little bit dangerous when you start holding children of parents responsible for the actions of their children. But when you can prove that the parent knew or should have known and did not take any steps to do so. I mean, it's rare for parents to go ask that their children be involuntarily committed. It would be rare for a parent to call the police in a state that had a red flag law. So how else if the parents. Parents are notoriously non objective. That's why we love them. We're not objective about our children. Our parents are not always objective about us. But the price that we are paying right now, I mean, we've had school shooting after school shooting after school shooting. And I wholeheartedly agree with the notion. In fact, in my hometown, we have a police presence in every school. And that deters. So what the president's doing in D.C. works police presence deters. This was a private school. So government cannot dictate to a private religious school that you must have armed guards. So my point is, you know, and honestly, I caught it from the left and right yesterday. The left didn't like the fact that I made mention of Jesus. The right didn't like fact that the fact that I mentioned gun control. But what I think some people maybe lose sight of is we already have gun control. You and I cannot walk into certain places with a fully automatic machine gun. That is gun control. The question is, can we find something to lower the number of the mass shootings? The way I define them.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, Trey, wait. I need. I need you to help me out here for a second. So, like, I lived in New York City and in Times Square, there are big signs that say gun Free zone. And there are still shootings in Times Square because the people that are going to shoot people don't care about the signs so when you're talking about gun control, are. Are you. It's sounding to me, and I could be missing this, like you think there's a better way to do gun control instead of, we have a ton of gun control already and it doesn't work to stop mass shootings like this, so why would we do more gun control? Can you help me untangle that?

[Trey Gowdy]

Sure. Yeah. I did it. I did. When I was a state prosecutor, I called the feds in and said, we're going to have summer of silence. We're not going to wait. I mean, look, if I'm prosecuting a murder case, I've lost, somebody's already dead. So I got with the U.S. attorney's office because they have really, really strict firearm statutes. There are a number of people prohibited from possessing firearms. Court martial adjudicated mentally ill felons subject to a court order and a restraining order and domestic violence case here in the country unlawfully. That's a big one. That never gets talked about. You cannot lawfully possess firearm.

[Clay Travis]

No, I get it. What does that have to do with what we just saw in the shooting in Minneapolis, though?

[Trey Gowdy]

Prosecute them? Well, that's. My point, is do we have a law that would have prevented what happened yesterday? And if we don't have a law, can we fashion one that balances people's freedom?

[Clay Travis]

And I think the answer is no, Trey. I think this is why people on the right are upset at you. I think the answer is there is no answer for is there a law that will balance freedom with. And balance freedom with the need to protect the public and stop something like this? Unless you're going to talk about red flag laws, mental health stuff, and really get deep into that. But that's a. That's a sticky one.

[Trey Gowdy]

Is that we're just going to live with these mass shootings.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I think one thing we could do is. And I'll ask you this, I mean, we've been asking this question. If you. Look, you mentioned mass shootings. So specifically taking the school shootings an example, the school shooter in Nashville clearly trans. Met it up on all sorts of things. Mentally, we agree that parents clearly should not have had these people with guns. Right. Same thing I think is true. Now in Minneapolis, former student. I think one thing we could do is address, should we be giving these people the medication that I think is prone to making them more violent and then taking their anger and their violence out on the schools? That would be one answer for me is we should have a big investigation because the trans community is very small. There are not very many people who are trans. And now we have two different trans people who have shown up at Christian schools and slaughtered innocent kids.

[Clay Travis]

Well, yeah, I mean, trade, to answer your question, because you said, well, then we have to just live with, with these shootings. The, the reality, I think, as we see it, is that a big problem is that you have people, you have a class of people right now, a group of people who are being told that there's a genocide being perpetrated against them by the biggest voices in the Democrat party, by the biggest newspapers, by some of the biggest channels on tv, and by the culture more. And that that's essentially a celebration of a dangerous, or rather celebrating a mental illness, which can create in some circumstances a dangerous outcome like we have seen now more than once, as you pointed out, including at the Covington school shooting. But to get into the gun side of this specifically, I'm still. I don't know what. So if we want to have a conversation about mental health, we want to have a conversation about not celebrating mental illness. That I'm all for. But on the gun side of it, I mean, you had to prosecute people for gun law violations. There's a ton of different ways you can be prosecuted for gun stuff. As you know, better than 99% of the population. There's no perfect security and there's no perfect way to get everybody. I mean, the truth is, Trey, mass shootings actually are rare. So when you say we're going to live with mass shootings, you know, it sounds a little bit like what the Democrats say, which is if we can just have one, you know, let's, let's get only 10 round magazines. That'll save people. Let's, let's not have AR15s in this day. That'll save people.

[Trey Gowdy]

10 people are dead. That just means 10 people are dead. So, so I've never talked about magazine capacity because that just tells me you will accept 10 dev people, but you won't accept 11.

[Clay Travis]

But I mean, if you're, if you're somebody who doesn't think, if there's not a law that you can come up with, given what you used to do, that would have stopped this, that is workable. My point is maybe there's not a law that is workable that would stop something like this. And maybe that is actually the reality we deal with in a free society. It's tragic, but it's true.

[Trey Gowdy]

Well, I would. So I don't know the last time you traveled, but wait in line a Long time to board a plane because we said never again is someone going to do something with an airplane. I have to show ID almost everywhere I go. And I. So we're willing to trade in certain pockets of our lives, we are willing to trade a little bit of inconvenience for public safety.

[Clay Travis]

But isn't the two way community already trading a lot? I mean, we got, we got all these rules is my point. I mean, so, so it's like if one person once a year is able to do something on, on a plane, does that mean we're going to add more rules in that we actually just got rid of the liquid thing and.

[Buck Sexton]

There'S not a constitutional right to air travel? I think a lot of second amendment people would say so what would your solution? Let's close it up this way. Let me, let me tell you this, Trey, by the way, the book is the Color of Death. Trey Gowdy, I want to make sure that we address this. Let's pretend that I gave you a magic wand and you could design a system that would stop excess violent death while also preserving everyone's constitutional rights. What would that look like in the mind of sorcerer magician Trey Gowdy?

[Trey Gowdy]

Well, I would do what I did. For six years, the Obama administration had anemically low firearms prosecutions. For an administration that talked about gun control for eight years, their gun prosecutions were anemically low. And I get that it is not nearly as sexy to prosecute a possession, a felon in possession of a firearm case as murder. But that's what you have to do. You have to enforce the laws that you currently have, which we are not doing.

[Clay Travis]

Trey, that's a totally separate. I mean, what you're talking about, the Obama administration wasn't, and this was true with Krasner as the DA in Philadelphia. You know this. They weren't pushing those cases because it disproportionately affected the minority community. Young black men were being prosecuted at much higher rates for those. That's a totally separate thing from somebody who's a complete lunatic who wants to go up and shoot up a school. Like you could prosecute all the gang members you want across the country. That's not going to stop what happened.

[Trey Gowdy]

In Minneapolis when we both know one of the prohibited persons is whether or not you've been adjudicated mentally ill. And.

[Clay Travis]

This, had this person been adjudicated mentally ill. I'm not aware of that, if that was the case.

[Trey Gowdy]

But that's my point. Had anybody tried, had anybody sought an involuntary Confinement. Had it.

[Commercial/Advertisement Voice]

Or.

[Trey Gowdy]

Or when we go back to Congress, it was the Republicans, conservatives who said the fact that a Social Security judge has deemed you disabled due to a mental illness is not a bar to you possessing a firearm. I wonder if we could go back in time if we would tweak our position.

[Clay Travis]

If you're advocating for something that would not have made any difference to the shooting that we just happened as a solution to the shooting, that's. That's where I think there's a problem.

[Trey Gowdy]

Well. Well, then. Then I would ask you, what would you do? Or are we just going to accept and grieve in the aftermath of more.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, we talked. We talked extensively yesterday about. About putting more armed security in places like schools. I don't know if you know this, Trey. We actually had on Mary Margaret Olahan who said Catholic schools in Minnesota, specifically after Covington went to the governor and said, hey, we need help. We want more armed guards. Now, I'm not saying that's a cure all, but it is something, and it is something that, by the way, this shooter took into account. So this was part of the calculation. There was no armed security at this school. So it's not a do nothing thing, Trey. It sounds a lot like a gun grabbing Democrat point of view on this one. This is why you're catching all the heat, my friend. I'm a little surprised. Is he gone? Huh?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, he hung up on you, Buck.

[Clay Travis]

Color of Death is his book. I was. I.

[Buck Sexton]

Was I being. No, I'm just. I'm just. I'm surprised he hung up. I think that's the first. I think that's the first hang up we've had. Am I wrong? I don't think pence. I'm just.

[Clay Travis]

I'm just gonna tell you guys right now. I. I've always. I think Trey's a nice guy.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, we got him back.

[Clay Travis]

You hung up on me, man. Like we're just exchanging ideas here. That was totally polite. I'm gonna. You know what, Trey? I'm gonna give you. We were pushing your book. I'm gonna give you the last word. The Color of Death is the book. Tell us what your. What your final thoughts are on this one. We'll give you the last word.

[Trey Gowdy]

Well, you know, I did not feel comfortable pushing the book yesterday in light of real life grief. This is fictional. But if people want to know what it's like to prosecute a murder case, you know, I don't think the media gets it right about the interaction between cops and prosec. Victims and prosecutors the bond that exists. So I wanted to write a real life account of what it's like to try to catch a killer from the moment the crime happens, admitting that by the time the murder takes place, there's already been a loss of life. But that happens. It happens all the time. It's what I did for 10 years. And I want people to have a realistic view of what that's like because many series, movies and television shows don't get it right. All right.

[Clay Travis]

Okay. We'll leave it there. Trey, thank you for making the time for us and thanks for answering our questions today. We appreciate it.

[Trey Gowdy]

No, they're great questions. Look, I mean, I want to keep having the conversation and I appreciate you. Look, I mean, we. I think we all agree we would like a safer society without doing violence to our freedoms. And I think you and I want to get to the same place. And I respect you, even if we may have slightly different paths on how to get there. I am not wed to my way. If there is a better way. I just, I. It just breaks my heart as I don't, as I know it does yours, to see dead, innocent victims.

[Clay Travis]

Well, that's. Well said, Trey. And we appreciate that and we agree with that. And thank you for coming on.

[Trey Gowdy]

God bless you. Thank you.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you, guys. All right, we will be right back.

[Buck Sexton]

Want to be in the know when you're on the go the Team 47 podcast Trump highlights from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Trey Gowdy]

This is an iHeart podcast.