← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
How To Embrace Fear & Win At Life: This Navy SEAL’s Battle-Tested Mental Framework | Ep. 37
01:02:14
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
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- [00:35]
Jordy
This is.
- [00:35]
Jacob Goldstein
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- [01:20]
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- [01:51]
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- [02:50]
David Rutherford
Are you feeling overwhelmed with the craziness that's going on in our world right now, week after week after week of just endless amounts of things that are provoking fear and uncertainty in you? Well, tell you what, I've gone through that myself, not only in the SEAL teams, but working for the agency and as a father of four daughters. That's why this week, I want to share with you some ideas that'll help you manage all of the madness this week on the David Rutherford show. Welcome to the show, everybody. I tell you what, man, as a person that used to be primarily motivational in nature and all of the content that I delivered, I just felt like it was time for me to bring back a little bit of that to the audience. Jordy. And I know you and I are talking every day about the intensity of what we're seeing and what's going on. So I just thought, based on your advice, I thought it would be a good idea to just give some ideas that I've learned over the last 30 years as a motivational performance coach, professional speaker, and author and podcast host that I think could help the audience.
- [04:14]
Jordy
So I think you'll help me too. I'm gonna just selfishly claim that this is going to be a personal therapy session for me because of, without getting into it. I think I've handled, I've seen one too many just disappointments politically and in all the news lately. So I need, I need some help, dude. I need a, I need a boost.
- [04:34]
David Rutherford
Well, I, I'm getting that a lot. As a matter of fact, I think I get a. Three or four texts a week being like, hey, Rut, man, when, when are you going to do a show that has some positivity involved in that? And we need a little bit of that old school rut back. And, and so I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to oblige for sure.
- [04:55]
Jordy
All right, thank you. Thank you. We need it.
- [04:58]
David Rutherford
You got it. All right. So first and foremost, one of the things that I think has, takes place when is we have, we don't have a lot of time to take a step back and reflect on all of the situations that are taking place, or better yet, what are the core emotions that are really adding an imbalance to our Subjective perception of things, right. And I think the first time that I really started to try and understand that was as a young athlete growing up in all the different sports I've played and going and, and playing in college and then really failing pretty monumentally in that endeavor and then recognizing that in order to be able to figure myself out, figure out how to manage all of these fears that riddle us from all these different external and really internal limitations that seem to present themselves in all the different forms. Whether it's in good relationships, bad relationships, challenges in our ambition, or really in our inability to push ourselves to develop the particular skill sets needed to match that ambition. It wasn't until I went into the SEAL teams that that really emerged and, and became more fundamental in the approach of, of that development. But I'll tell you where it really shifted for me is when I became an instructor and you know, after probably about six and a half years in the teams, I got the opportunity, or I was forced into the opportunity I should say, to become an instructor at SEAL qualification training. Now for those of you who don't understand, you know, the famous course in SEAL training is basic Underwater Demolition. SEAL training, that's a seven month course. That's your indoctrination, that's your kind of the proving grounds where you really have to expose all of these ideas, right? You know, what are you really afraid of and how much capture that has on you. You know, how strong is your self conf a day in and day out as you're constantly being exposed and forced into failures and then what your team orientation looks like and whether or not that team orientation matches a very focused approach to your purpose, which is to become a part of a unit, an organization that's bigger than yourself. And so all of that exposure took place in buds. And then what happens is you are essentially have been reprogrammed and you've been reprogrammed in a very sophisticated way. This program has been in development for over 80 years, really starting in 1943 and the build up to the D Day invasion. And you know, during that time is really where you know, the most famous evolution in our training profile, the Hell Week. The famous Hell Week actually emerged and it's the one of the very unique evolutions that's still intact today because of the significance of what transpires emotionally and intellectually, physically, and all those, the four main categories that I think are relevant to assess ourselves right physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. And so as they leave buds, they're essentially these little robots, Jordi I mean we were. If you would have said, hey Rut, go run into that brick wall. Hoo ya instructor, whatever. And I go run into the brick wall. Yeah. You know, not even a question. Not, not even a question. Just as hard as I can wall. And that's it. Period. Right.
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Jordy
But you got to have, right.
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David Rutherford
Like I, I. Yes. And the reason is, is because, and this is where people really struggle the most is, is we are programmed from day one. You're a new father. And I'm sure even while your child was in your wife's belly, you were playing music for that child. You were, she was reading stories of that child. You were spe. Now that your child has been born, I'm sure you're developing patterns of protocols that reduce her, her fear, right. Because that's the core emotion she runs off of. Fear, safety. Right. Within that context. And then the, the, the, the, the sense, the sensation of love. Right. Those are those really core emotions, fear and love. Right. Is what we're trying to.
- [09:42]
Jordy
I'm taking a lesson from our previous guest, the legendary coach Swider. You know, and I'm already, I'm telling her I love her every single day. She don't know, she don't understand a word I'm saying. But I feel like there's some connection there.
- [09:58]
David Rutherford
And that's what we do, we program, right? And that's a programming, imprinting whatever word you want to talk about. But that's, that's what's taking place. And so, you know, depending upon how you're raised, obviously that nurture environment, right? What you're exposed to, what different types of training, sophisticated training programs or protocols, and that comes as a result of Montessori school or preschool. It comes in, you know, do you have your child watching the videos about sight words? Do you, are you teaching multiplication tables? You know, how early are you exposing them to group sports or, or to activities outside or hiking or camping or fishing or whatever you are going to try and program your child in that takes place. And then there's, you know, the, the, the non focus programming, the result of watch fight or trauma or your own debilitating circumstances. Let's say you grew up in an impoverished family with a single parent, right? Maybe you had multiple siblings that were problematic within the family. So all of that is programming. So really, and where it really starts to manifest, I think is going through that prepubescence into puberty. Now all of a sudden you have this system and you're trying to understand your own personal ident, but you're still not sure about the world because you just don't have enough reps. And so what BUDS does, in my opinion, BUDS takes that system and forces you to either press pause on it, which is most likely what it is, and then to compartmentalize all those pre existing ideas or imprinting or skill sets that give you a framework to operate in and forces you to set it off to the side and say, all right, we're going to teach you this new system because in the very near future you're, we're going to want you to put yourself in situations where people want to kill you and then you want to kill them more importantly. Right. And so that's, that's the development process that's taking place. Well, once you're through buds, man, you, you've, you're all in. You have completely allowed that programming to take place, whether it was, whether you are broke down and most guys, you're broken down in that first phase through Hell week in particular. And then all of a sudden you're kind of ready for that next level and so you start to consume the imprinting at a, a much more sophisticated and tolerable and long lasting way. Right. That's where the programming shifts.
- [12:40]
Jordy
Well, once you finish, did you, did you notice a big difference in yourself pre post buds?
- [12:47]
David Rutherford
Oh, monument. It's difficult to describe. It really is. The guy I was prior to BUDS was I was essentially a college dropout art hippie, right. Who had a haircut too, probably. Oh, I had long hair, right. I had these horrible sideburns. Right. I was probably 225 pounds. You know, I was very eccentric in my behaviors and really also involved in a lot of destructive behavior as well too because I wasn't satisfied with who I had emerged and what had taken place as a result of losing the identity of being an athlete, a high level athlete. So then I was kind of searching for what took place there. That's why the decision emerged. All right, where do I go to go kind of reassess these fears, expose those, understand those on a deeper level, but then more importantly to learn a framework that can help me manage that for the rest of my life in whatever I was going to face. Because through the exposure to a lot of, took a lot of psychology courses, took a lot of philosophy courses, took a lot of art history courses, a lot of English lit courses, poetry courses, art courses. And within all of the humanities, one of the positive things that emerges is that it's about introspection, it's about understanding the, the Magnitude of what's available to you if you should choose to go out in this magnificent adventure called life. But you have to choose to go and search out these changes. Right? You have to expose yourself to the unknown and take the risk in order to develop and evolve. Otherwise, the world is forcing the evolution within you and you're not in control of that. That.
- [14:46]
Jordy
So did you. So that was like, explicit for you. It wasn't like, and I don't think it's wrong either way. You intentionally thought, I need a framework for handling life going into buds, as opposed to, like, I just need the next challenge. What's something crazy I could do? Let's go into buds.
- [15:04]
David Rutherford
No, I, I needed a framework. Wow. And then I, I, I. And I knew it had to be centralized against something that was, that was at a higher order of purpose. Right. Athletics wasn't able to do it anymore for me. It just had because I had come to the realization that I wasn't as good as I thought I was. The illusion that I had generated, that I was some elite athlete had fallen, had fallen apart, you know, and partially, you know, that was because of, of my own inability to adapt to, to my circumstances, which was playing at a higher level where I wasn't the best and playing against guys that had really amazing athletic and not accepting. All right, now I gotta work harder than I'd ever worked before to assimilate into that next level of performance. Well, I didn't do that. And then so I was like, no, I need a framework, a system that can do this. And I'd always been a fan of, and kind of inspired by military stories and backgrounds, you know, and I didn't know a lot about the seal community at all until my freshman year in college. My next door neighbor gave me a book about seals in Vietnam. But it wasn't that. It was, it was. I knew I needed to be challenged in a team environment, but at a really heightened level that was going to help me reshape the way I looked at the world. Right.
- [16:37]
Jordy
In particular, very introspective for a college kid.
- [16:41]
David Rutherford
Well, the lucky thing I had is that my dad was a, a pretty profound intellect. And, and so, you know, we had conversations like that as a kid. You know, we were not going on hunting trips and we were not going fishing. You know, my, my, we would sit around and, and contemplate and he would talk about, you know, great minds in history and, and talk about thinking and how you evolve in that capacity. And, and I think that was what really was the, the the, the, the, the seed that I needed to think beyond what was in front of my face, that it had to be something not kind of thrown together but it, it, it was a, a focused process that the outcome had a substantial outcome, right. It was not something I could and, and it didn't have a long lasting effect and effect on me. Right. So you know, this was the program and you know, so after buds I was a radically different person for sure. And you know, went through medd training and jump school and all that stuff, went back to a team, was on a team for a while, did a first workup and deployment and then in my second platoon got, you know, offered up to go be an instructor at SE qualification training. Now at that time sqt was 36 weeks long and now I think it's 49 weeks long. So they really wanted to go to a more consolidated pipeline because what used to happen right before I got in, you would go to a team and do your next level training before you went into a platoon. And every team did it differently. And so guys were at different stages in their career and it was really disjointing. You might go over to Team 3, go through STT in a couple months and then be in a platoon. Whereas team one, your probationary period could last six, seven months before you finish and start it up. And so they wanted to make, get a conformity to it that made more sense for the community itself. And that's why SQT emerged into. And now it's even advanced even further now. So now it's this straight two year pipeline. But what I found fascinating about SQT was that it was really this unique thing because we had these robots, but what we needed to get them to do is to start thinking independently again, right? To be free thinkers. Because that's really what a commando is, right? A sea, air and land commando, what SEAL means. And so you wanted a free thinker, but that could, could think, you know, in the moment, unique creative thinking within the context of, of how the operational environment was emerging in the kinetic nature of war, that they could make real time calls that kept the advantage, the tactical advantage in place for the unit, right? For the platoon, for the fire team, for the butt swim buddy, whatever it might have been that was in the engagement regimen. And so I very quickly, I had some really amazing guys that supported me because I was just a one platoon wonder. I'd only done one platoon. And you're measured, your reputation is measured by how many workups and deployments you've done. You call that your platoon? Right. And so I was around guys that had four, five, six deployments and platoon workups. And so here I was this, you know, green dude. In fact I was, I was probably still, still defecating Bud's chow to a certain degree, right? That's how relatively proximal I was to my own training experience.
- [20:44]
Jordy
And well, it's hard because you just, you just got your whole identity and your almost your personality to some degree just decimated and broken down.
- [20:54]
David Rutherford
Not decimated, not decimated, just subdued. So who I was before is subdued. Like it doesn't erase completely, but all of the pre existing things to which you manage fear and confidence and team orientation, they're subdued because a lot of that is impeding on what they want you to become, which is to completely have the self sovereign to the team. That's the essence of our culture, that's the essence of all great teams. And what the culture needs to be is you train the individual for the self, which is very natural. Or our complete framework of the world itself is, is, is selfish in nature. That's just the way it is, right? Is, is to be subservient to what the team needs to have happen in order to be accomplished, which is.
- [21:47]
Jordy
So they, they just brought this. So they subdued all of the self centered part of you. Right? But all I'm thinking is at that point before you get to that qualification training, you've got to feel a little lost because they just took away what you've used to navigate all of these different challenges in life, or at least subdued them. But they haven't yet given you the training and the solution yet.
- [22:14]
David Rutherford
Well, what they have given you is the context of grit, right? And determination. You know, one of the most common things, and we heard it with, you know, both Dr. Kraft and, and Coach Gadz, what, what they're trying to get out of those athletes at Penn State is grit, right? Well, nobody teaches grit better than special operations community. I mean the whole context is about grit. It's, it's when, when, when it sucks. And I mean sucks. You're not going to quit on your teammate. Why? Because you're not going to quit on your teammate. Right? Because you don't want your teammate to suffer. And in our case, it's die.
- [22:57]
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- [24:28]
Podcast Host
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- [25:59]
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- [26:25]
David Rutherford
Learn more@abekahomeschool.com so you, you rise up, right? It's, it's what my friend Derek calls the ambition of shame, right? And so you utilize this construct, construct of shame to perpetuate harder work, a greater endurance, a greater capacity to manage pain, a greater capacity to compartmentalize fear, a greater capacity to idealize the. The what it means to be an operator. What and what that is is not, look at me, look at me and my kit. Look at me and my quad nods. Look at me, I'm a badass. It's no, it's like, like, look at me next to the guy next to me. Look at me next to him, look at what I'm going to do for him. And that's all of a sudden like the people, the peers that are managing all this, the instructors, your platoon mates that are senior to you, like that's what they're looking for. You know, Eddie Gallagher talks about this in a really great way. Just was watching a recent podcast of his. He had a Delta guy on, I think think and, and a green Beret and, and they were talking about this like it's the attitude you bring to the team that speaks volumes to your character and who you are and whether or not they want. People want to work with you. And so that takes place. So you finish that and like that's the whole thing is like you are loyal to beyond measure to that principle. Like I'm going to crush myself so that my buddy is like, oh yeah, I trust him with my life.
- [27:59]
Jordy
Life. It's just reordering things like there's almost no personal concern. It sounds like there's no personal concern that would trump the needs of the mission in your team.
- [28:08]
David Rutherford
That's it.
- [28:09]
Jordy
There's nothing that could happen to you because you'll die. You'll die for the team.
- [28:12]
David Rutherford
That's it. Period.
- [28:13]
Jordy
There's. I'm tired, I'm in pain, I'm scared, I'm.
- [28:16]
David Rutherford
Whatever.
- [28:17]
Jordy
Those are completely underneath what the mission.
- [28:20]
David Rutherford
And the team needs 100% and more. So you. They'll even individualize it quite a bit in training. Like, instructors will be like. Like, hey, Rut, you're going to let Sandy down right now. You're letting your. Your swim buddy, or you're leaving Henry down or you're letting Joe down or you're letting Rob down right now by your behavior. I want you to look at his face while you're whining, while you're bitching, while you're moaning, while you're complaining, while you look like you want to quit right now. Look at your teammate's face. And I want you to see what you're doing to him in your. And your weakness. And. And you're like, yeah. Whoa. So you. You. You take that and you move into this sense of sqt. And now it's like, all right. As an instructor, it was very. It's like I started thinking that that's the way I needed this truck very quickly. Had, you know, my mentor, Bruce Cottingham, other amazing guys that were senior to me that really were like, all right, Rud, look at this way. You don't necessarily. Yes, there is a place for being hard on somebody, but the. Extrapolate the best of this individual so they can, you know, the. The individual nature of them can now bring back some of that stuff that had gotten them to the decision in the first place to join that creativity and implement that now in a grander context. Right. Psychologically, it's not just about the. The robo response of being hard, but more so, like, all right, right. How can I also support my. My teammate emotionally? How can I support the mission being more creative? How can I support. Right? And so it's like, all right, now we gotta infuse a greater context that it's not just about following the order or what's laid out in front of you. And that's what really is. Is unique about it. And so, you know, that's where I really started to. What I saw was like. Like, in particular post 9 11, because I was. I was an instructor when 911 took place. And prior to that, there was a different mentality. Not because guys weren't committed or didn't work their asses off, but there. There wasn't. There wasn't this conclusive acceptance that everybody's going to war now. Right? And I think that was a real Monster psychological shift in not only our community, but I think all communities in particular where it was like our right, you're going to war now. And so after that it was like the, the responsibility of the instructor staff really increased because it's like, all right, what are the fundamental mechanisms that we now need to teach these young men as they're preparing to go for, to go to war very soon? Right. It was like they show, they graduate sqt. They get farmed out to their teams, they get in a platoon, they do a workup and they're going. And then before you know it, we were in Iraq, you know.03. So now you have two fronts now. There's, it's guaranteed, everybody's going to war. You're not escaping it, period.
- [31:35]
Jordy
Grit's necessary, but it's not sufficient. It sounds like, like you need grit, you need it, but you're, that's not everything you need.
- [31:44]
David Rutherford
I, I, well I, I firmly believe that the operator that can think under fire is the most dangerous human being on the planet. Planet. Right. Like use the, the person that under an incredible amount of stress can still think and analyze their emotions without the emotions getting the best of them, still think, analyze their emotions and then work in a confident way in a team environment to come up with solutions based on the team objective. That's the greatest form of the operator, right? It's, it's, it's the thinking, it's a thinking man's game, right? The most. That's why we have such revel, reverence for great generals in history, whether it was Alexander the Great or General Lee or, or, or whomever, right? It's why, it's because under pressure, under fire, Chestry Puller. Right. Admiral Nimitz under fire, real fire, these people don't lose their cool. They keep control, they maintain operational focus and they're able to finish the mission and the objective and those are that that's when you're lethal, when you start to incorporate that. And I think that's what really was supposed to emerge in this time. And then by the time you got you left sqt, then you get to a platoon, you do a year long workup. That's where you're refining it as much as you can as a new guy. Right? And then that at that case now you have the pure evaluation of the guys you're going to combat with, which is even more professional in nature because you're still a student and there still is that student instructor divide. But it was during that time where I really began to Understand that there are some fundamental ideas that really need to be explored to help the students begin to recognize that these things are playing a major role and their ability to grow into that next version of themselves. Right? To become the. The operator who can shoot, think, move and communicate. Right? Or think, shoot, move and communicate, however you want to divide it up. And that's where for me, the frog logic was born. You know, people, every now and then they hear me say that term, they're like, well, what does that mean? And initially, the whole thing, When I started FrogLogic in 2005 into 2006, it was basically to expose people to these core principles that I think are underneath the main psychological formats that they implement. The development of a frogman, of a Green Beret, of whatever, there are some fundamental core concepts, these principles of whatever particular mindset you need to have to be a member of a group like this. And really that's where the frog logic concepts emerged. And the first one that I really focused on was the idea of self confidence. Now a lot of people are like, well, how does self confidence play a major role? I'm pretty confident person. I can, you know, I can, I can handle myself. But you really gotta ask yourself, like, is your self confidence that intact? Now, one of the things that we see, and I would see with students, you can bang on a student, but if you bang on a student long enough, they're gonna be defeated, right? And that's like the American public right now, I think. And you know, you bang on them long and hard enough and, and they'll either walk away, check, check out. And you know, I think we, you and I talk about that quite a bit. You know, people are just over it. They're just not. They're done paying attention. They can't keep up with the news cycle. They can't keep up with the intensity of being lied to and the corruption and all that. So a lot of people will just check out. But again, as you and I both know, if you check out, the problem only gets worse. Force, right?
- [36:01]
Jordy
And so thinking under the fire, the thinking under fire thing you just said, I mean, all these concepts, I'm just thinking about it right now. It that be self confident, okay, it sounds easy, like, great, I'm confident, but it actually doesn't matter unless there's some force fighting against it. Like, your self confidence only really matters when you have every reason to not be self confident. Right now when you have getting beaten down by life, when you're incessantly. Right, that's, that's really, when it actually. Only when it really matters.
- [36:32]
David Rutherford
Well, think about it, right? You, you. You wake up every day and put your feet on the ground, right? You check out your posable thumbs. You take a deep breath, air, and you're like, all right, I'm good. This is good. And then you move into the day, and your first phone call you get is from your boss going, why are you late? When you get in, I'm gonna hammer the snot out. Or when you get to work, you know, someone else gets a promotion and you don't. Or when you go to, you know, eat whatever, you know, you can't afford eating at this, so you got to go eat. And it's just, you know, that's whatever I mean. Or you get dumped, or you're in a bad relationship, or you have generational trauma. There's so many different aspects that your self confidence can take a beating on that it's critical, right? To how do you recuperate that, how do you recover? And so one of the things that I realize, really tried to understand is like, what does the recovery look like for the individual? And do people have a system in place on how that works? And so, you know, fast forward. When I launched FrogLogic and really in earnest in the spring of 2006 after working at Blackwater for a couple years, you know, I started with kids. That's where I wanted to folk. But the primary focus was self confidence. I really wanted to teach young kids 10 to 15 how to recognize that as identity. They were trying to figure out who they were in a very peculiar setting. Right. You know, it's crazy. I watch, you know, four teenage daughters, and I'm watching them in their social environments, and it's always like they're trying to figure out, all right, are they full of it right now, or how am I supposed to react in this moment? And they're unsure of themselves. And I think young boys are the same way too. It's a little different how it emerges. There's a physical nature in it, I think, with young boys, but very similar. How do I fit in right now? And what about me as I see myself is relevant to making the group want to bring me into the group and whatever form, format that is, right? The, the, the, the. The a priori hierarchies of those subgroups and subcultures that exist within all the different types of organizations we participate in our familiar organization, our scholastic organization, our work organizations, whatever they may be, our team organizations. And there's always trying to figure out where you fit on the hierarchy. So just that nature of that evaluation alone can really be invasive on having a very strong sense of self confidence. So that was where I started first. First and try to figure out a system in place. Right. And I, you know, they're training modules, but I call missions. And so what I, the idea was like there would be four. One topical mission and then four subsets that help support the development of that overall mission and to reinforce the idea behind what it means to be able to rehabilitate or maintain self confidence. So like mission number one in forging self confidence confidence is have a positive attitude. Right. And that one thing alone, I swear, swear to you, Jordi, that one concept alone has been the most transformational thing for me in my entire existence. Right. And this is the one thing that is undeniable. And a lot of people will debate me on this. Well, what if somebody has chronic depression or somebody has bipolar or multiple personality disorder is on the spectrum or whatever. Every human being, I'm not going to say every. Obviously there's a 3 to 5% that are psychopaths. There's 15% that are sociopathic in nature. Well, let's, let's for, for, for discussion.
- [40:31]
Jordy
All the money on the people.
- [40:32]
David Rutherford
The overwhelming majority of people respond in a positive way when there's a sensation of, of a positive assessment of their world. Right, Right, right. When they think they're in an environment that has relative positivity intact. And that's in the form of safety. That's the form of positive relationships. Right. Feedback. That's in the form of some even limited sense of meaning or purpose. That's in the form of you feeling like you have some control of where your. The direction your life is headed. Right. Something to aim at, as Jordan Peterson would say. And so, so that idea of a positive attitude, like you can do that every day. You don't have to pay to have a positive attitude. You don't have to pay. You don't have to download your positive attitude. You have a choice to be positive or negative or neutral. I mean, that's your choice every day, and it's on you. And there's categorical proof that people in the very worst situations that can be manifested within the human condition in terms of being locked in a concentration camp or a gulag, being grown up in perpetual violence or trauma. You know, there's a place that anybody can conjure, you know, that, that there is a semblance of, of positivity. Now I also recognize that through a lot of very intense, intense Psychological abuse. You can break human beings, obviously. You know, the MK Ultra program is one of the most known examples of that. You come, you break somebody into disassociation and you can have manipulate them in any, in any way you want. But the overwhelming majority of people existing normally is like, man, you can be positive every day. So that's step mission number one. And.
- [42:31]
Jordy
Well, I want to comment on that real quick. Quick, which is, is I just want to like, emphasize when some people here have a positive attitude. At first glance, it can look way less serious or heroic or dare I say badass than it actually is. Because I think the operative word there is have. Have a positive attitude. Don't just like, hope you're happy, right? Because good luck with that strategy, right? But, but, you know, you wake up in the sun shining, everything's fine, you just got paid today. Have a positive attitude. Easy. Like that doesn't really mean anything, right? But you got fired. You just yelled at your kid that morning when you shouldn't, when he shouldn't have. You just got a random tax bill for $25,000 that you didn't prepare for, right? Same day, your marriage is hanging on. Have a positive attitude now.
- [43:28]
David Rutherford
Well, I'm glad you brought that point up because that was the dramatic shift in the evolution of where frog logic went, right? Because, you know, after I spent several years teaching this to, you know, and talking about this to about 7,000 kids from 2006 to 2008, you know, I, in that exposure, you know, kids are the greatest thing because there's, there's such genuineness, there's such honesty in their reflections and their attitudes and their actions and very, you know, fulfilling to analyze and to evaluate. Right. I began to realize that there's another component. There's a layer that really is that, is, that is a preface or that exists before confidence even emerges. That's on a mark, a core level, right? There's something that's, that's you're wired for, for. And I wasn't able to put my mind on it until I spent four years at the agency. You know, I, I, I, I ended up writing my first adult book. I'd written a children's book about self confidence. And when I worked at the agency, I wrote an adult book on self confidence. And as I was writing this, and then when I left the agency and started speaking again, the, the question always came up, well, you know, were you afraid? Were you afraid when you went through Hell Week? Were you afraid when you went to combat? Were you afraid when you were overseas when you were afraid, were you afraid? You know, and then I began to realize, wow, there's, there's an underlying component that supersedes the idea of the construct of confidence, right? Of self confidence. It's that, and it's that this innate thing, this thing that's woven into the framework, the, the wiring and the emotional framework of, of, of, of who you are from, from birth, right? And that's the idea, that's the emotion of fear. And all you got to do is look at, you know, the way you're, you're set up, right, on a, on a biological level within your limbic system in terms of stress hormones and, and, and, and positive hormones, which, which, you know, you've got dopamine, oxytoci, epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline and cortisol, right? And so you have this biological war that's being waged every single day, which generates one of, I think, the primary emotion that we have to manage throughout our lives. And that's why what spawned this, this, this, this show is fear. And you want to, I mean, fear is fundamental in every way, in every human being, being. And so, you know, from basically after being asked this question ad nauseam, I was like, you know, and I didn't know how to answer it initially. I kind of gave these kind of flippant answers like, you know, how dare you ask me if I was afraid in combat? I was like, you know, what gives you that right? And I'd give stupid answers. But eventually I was like, no, people really want to know. Like, they genuinely want to know. And so I spent about two years afraid. It's because everybody's afraid. Everybody's afraid.
- [46:45]
Jordy
They want to know that if, if even that Navy SEAL was afraid, then maybe they're not crazy, right?
- [46:51]
David Rutherford
And, and that's the thing. Because you can't defeat fear.
- [46:58]
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David Rutherford
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- [50:43]
David Rutherford
Sorry to cut in, but I had to give a shout out to one of our core sponsors and that's Firecracker Farms. I've been using this product for a couple years now. It's my good friend Alex, his family, it's a family owned business. They grow their peppers, they infuse the pepper into their salt, they put it in these beautiful salt shakers, and they box it and send it out all themselves. And I'll tell you what, but every single morning that I eat my eggs, I put this salt on there, give it a little bit of spice, a little bit of kick. I can ditch all the hot sauces, all the junky hot sauces that are out there, and I just run with this hot salt. And it has changed everything for me. I put it on my steaks, I put it on all my protein. It's really amazing. And so the other thing I really love is that it's a family owned business. They make this product with love. Love. I've been to their forum. I've seen it myself. Trust me when I tell you, they really care about what they do. So if you want to test it out, go to Firecracker Farm. And if you want a little discount, punch in Rut romeo uniform tango 15 for your little discount and you'll have it sent to you. So you don't know what you're missing. Your taste buds are calling screaming for this product right now as we speak. So go to Firecracker Farm. Booyah. It's just an impossibility. You can't. You're wired from it and you've been taught it your whole life. It's a, anybody who says you can.
- [52:09]
Jordy
Or they're not afraid is lying. This is lying.
- [52:11]
David Rutherford
Well, I mean, you know, there's this idea, oh, that dude's fearless. And I know guys. I mean, one of my friends has almost 800 combat missions and I'd ask him, hey, dude, were you afraid? Your last deployment, he's like, rud, I was getting shot at. What do you think? Of course I'm afraid I just know how to manage it better through these, these other ideas that are woven into our training and my own psycholog development through main, through to an idea called stress inoculation, but also through the, the deep introspection of, you know, and I, and for what a lot of guys talk about it is if it's my time, it's my time. It's the acceptance, right, that fear's an integral part of my job, my existence. And so if I allow fear to overwhelm my aptitude to deliver skill sets under these pressure environments, then I'm not going to be what I want to be be. Right.
- [53:03]
Jordy
Well, that happens in everyday people too. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it happens in everyday people. It doesn't have to be just you're shot at, right? I mean, even I just got a small dose of it. You know, you have a kid, they got people who.
- [53:14]
David Rutherford
That's what I was going to ask you. Were you afraid before your kid came?
- [53:19]
Jordy
Absolutely. Yeah. Because you, you realize, you start thinking about, oh, I'm going to, you got, I got to provide for my family, I got to do all these things. And immediately you go, okay, well what do I need to do to do that? And then the next stage is you just picturing all the scenarios. And here's the thing, it's not even that you're being over overly paranoid. Sometimes you think of all the scenarios that could get in the way of you protecting and providing for your family that you are now up against, right?
- [53:49]
David Rutherford
That's right.
- [53:49]
Jordy
I, the negative insurgency, the negative surgery, I lose my job, I lose an arm, I die. I, whatever, lose my mind, flip out, I'm can't regulate my emotions, I make a wrong decision about some decision inside of a hospital that turns out bad, right? There's so many things you start realizing and it's not even crazy because you could do those things right? It actually could go wrong. I could mess up. Let me correct that. I will mess up as a husband and I will.
- [54:17]
David Rutherford
That's right.
- [54:18]
Jordy
And so those are. And, and then, and then also that's real, actual, real world consequences for the people that you love and depend on you. It's actually real. And so this isn't just like, hey, be positive man, you'll be happy. It's like, no, be positive. Like your life depends on it and the lives of the people who depend on you depend on it.
- [54:39]
David Rutherford
Well, and that's what I really tried. That's what emerged out of this, right? What fear? It's, you know, you can't talk and in, you know, innuendo and metaphysics, you know, about fear, like you've got to give people a concise way to address it, it. And so that's what emerged next was really this idea of teaching people to embrace their fear, right? Because one of the things you learn in the program is that you're going to be afraid every day. Because every day you're doing things that are high risk training evolutions. Every day you make one wrong move and you could be seriously wounded or killed every single day. It's no avoidance. So you have to embrace it. And when you bring it in close, if you're not sure what it is and where it comes from, from, then it controls you. And then it can get the best. So you have to learn to embrace it. So what did I do? Based on the research, I created five missions for learning to embrace fear. You know, mission number one is search for, search for the truth of your fear. And that's what I think people aren't doing at all. Like, I, I asked this, you know, and I, I give, you know, 100, 125 speeches a year to audiences in all across the United States and around the world. And, and I ask when I give the Embrace Fear seminar, step one, mission one, search for the truth of yours. Step one is write down every single fear you've ever had as a child, as young adolescents, young adulthood, all your fears you have right now and all the fears you have in the future. And I ask the audience, I go, raise your hand if you've done this before. And the average, and this is, let's say the average audience. I speak in front of 200 to 300 people. The average response to that is one person in the audience.
- [56:29]
Jordy
All right, Steps like admit that you have a problem sort of thing. That's always a step one, right?
- [56:36]
David Rutherford
A hundred percent. And I looked at aa, right? I, I, if I, I don't even know how many different training protocols and profiles I've looked at as I was trying to figure out the best way to deliver this information. Because, you know, I wrote curriculum at, I wrote curriculum at Blackwater, I wrote curriculum at the agency, and I've written a ton of curriculum for companies. I've written a ton of curriculum, you know, for what frog logic concepts are too. So I wanted something that was palatable for everybody to understand this. So, you know, all of most of the curriculum is journal based. It's really just doing some introspection about yourself based on different sequences or experiences you've had. And then there are also some other activities that propel you out to go ahead and evaluate yourself in real time under different stressful situations or environments by choice. And so the embrace fear one I discovered, all right, that is the first thing. So what I did is I moved it over here and I was like, all right, embrace fear comes first. Once you go through those five missions, the next is you learn to forge your self confidence. That's eight missions. Then what emerged all around that time, too, was everybody wanted me to talk about team orientation. What makes a great teammate, what makes a great follower, what makes a great team. So during that time, I went out and I created the. The team life training concepts, right? And within that, there's four missions. And there, I believe there are like four core concepts behind living a team life. You know, really dedicated. You know, mission number one is, is defining your level of commitment, right? Because if you're not committed, forget it. You know, it's just. And you know, we've been hearing this since we were little kids. Everybody, you know, your coaches, your te teachers, you know, Rutherford, you're not being committed. You're not. You're showing up late, you're not working hard, you're half assing it, you're not doing your homework, you're not giving it your all, you're not participating, you're not committed. So it's this word that's firmly integrated into our development as human beings, right? As this core understanding. But yet, when you ask people how they define commitment, in particular, if I set up a team, which I do when I work with, with teams, whether they're corporate teams or professional athletic teams or college teams, you know, one of the things I ask is like, all right, you know, independently, I want you to write down how you define commitment. Now you write down how you define it. Now you. And then I take these and I read them off. And yeah, there's certain similarities, but there's a lot of stuff missing, right? Because what happens over time, core ideas and principles or belief systems, they become muted, they become cloudy, they become convoluted with other, you know, internal desires, wants, or wishes. And the orientation around the team is, is not there. And so, you know, really try and teach that essence, that the self is sovereign to the team in. In this. So, you know, mission number one, step one is, is define yourself physically and how you're committed to being better. And, and that's as specific as, you know, how strong are you? How fast are you how much endurance, how far can you walk, how many push ups, how, you know, how far can you swim, how much, how much do you exercise? Because all of that I believe, you know, we're physical in nature. We're rooted in our physicality as human beings. It's the essence of really what separated us, I think from so many other species is that we're physically superior. I mean we can run longer distances. We have sweat glands, we have these opposable thumbs and you know, so they're really powerful. So that's the first one. Then, you know, and then obviously mentally and spiritually, emotionally comes, follow. But so, you know, after I had those three in place, it's like, all right, this is the formula that I, I think really can help people when they're under that duress, when they're in stress or they're, or they're seeking a greater, more heightened level of ambition and what they want to achieve in their lives. However, I hit a point where.
- [60:45]
Lenovo Advertiser
It.
- [60:45]
David Rutherford
Was really when Simon Sinek really began to explode on the scene and was like, what's your why? Right? And that was a fascinating question to me. And, and you know, I always thought, well, you know, the why emerges, you know, when you seek to improve yourself. But the actual opposite is true, right? Why is a fundamental thing now. It can emerge as you focus on these other pathways in two. But what I also believe is, you know, the ultimate question that a human being can ask yourself. There's two of them. Who am I and why am I here? Therein lies a purpose to try and figure that out, right? However, I don't believe that people can really genuinely figure out what their purpose in life is until they understand their fear. They've embraced their fear. Their self confidence is strong enough to, when they fail, they don't collapse, right? Whatever aptitude they're, they're engaged in and then they have to have a great team around them to support, support what the mission ultimately becomes. And that purpose changes, it evolves, right? All of my buddies that I went through buds with, they're living completely different purpose driven lives right now, right? They're, they're, they're, they're focused on different things. And that's the beauty of purpose. It evolves as you evolve. But this is the core idea behind the frog logic concept concepts. And so you know what, what I recommend to all of you, if, if you're in that space where you're troubled by what's taken place, you're struggling to manage the stress of your stressors of your life, whatever they may be. Man, just. Just pick one of these concepts. And even if you don't want to see how I do it or. Or how I break it down or anything like that, just pick a concept. Just start with your fear. Try and understand what you're afraid of. Right? Just start with that exercise alone, like, why is this stuff make you afraid? And then, you know, from there can emerge all these next different sequences or whatever sequence that you want to spin off into, but without understanding your fear and really why this stuff is getting to you, you know, you're kind of just wandering in the woods, woods or wandering in the desert to use a biblical framework. And, you know, there's some really fascinating theologians who've evaluated that, that whole idea, and why did they wander so. So long? And a lot of people believe that, you know, and I kind of agree with this, this theory is that these people were slaves for so long that they lived in a slave mentality. And the slave mentality is. Is you're taught what to think, you're taught how to act. And if you're not sure, you're waiting for somebody to say, do this, do that, think this, think that, and that you're always enslaved if you live there. And where are you most enslaved to the fear of not knowing what's coming next because you're waiting for life to happen to you. And that's essentially the negative insurgency that I talk so frequently about out. That's the insurgency placing you on the anvil and working you over, and you have no control over that. But when you take hold of that and you start with, understand, well, I know what I'm afraid of, and I know why. Then now all of a sudden you're like, all right, what am I going to do about it? That's placing yourself on the anvil and you're working on yourself. And that's where I see, back when I was an SQT instructor, that that's kind of loosely. What I was trying to do is to get these kids to admit, to recognize you chose this path. Now what are you going to do to evolve in the next capacity in it? What are you going to do to become the best version not only of yourself as a seal, but what are you going to do to become the best version of yourself as a person? And that's something I struggled with immensely while I was in the team. I was so uncertain of what it was meaning, where I would take it, how I would emerge it. And thankfully, towards the end of my career, I finally Got some people that were really able to inspire me to go down some better paths than I had chosen previously. But, you know, again, we recognize, you know, Jordy and I were in this every day thinking about, you know, what is the best way, way to deliver this information. And it was to mitigate all that in you, to lower or reduce the anxiety of that tsunami of information or to help you deconstruct it and pull it apart so you can take one piece at a time and assemble a perception that best fits where you're at. That doesn't degrade your faith in the teams you're part of. That doesn't degrade your self confidence, confidence, and most certainly that doesn't provoke a heightened sense of fear. And by all of these metrics or these ideas that we're trying to expose you and in the way, in particular, should you want to choose to utilize frog logic, you know, that's the intent, that's really the intent about why Jordy and I are doing this. It's the intent, why I've done, what I've been doing for the last 30 years is to give you, you some type of formula that I have invested quite a bit of time experiencing myself through my own evolution as, as an individual, as a human being, as a man, as an operator, whatever you want to say, as a father, as a. As a Christian, you know, and mostly. And then to share it and in order to kind of help you manage this tsunami of fear. So I hope.
- [66:54]
Jordy
Say real quick is. I think that's great. Is fascinating because I do think, something I didn't realize for a long time is that I do think men need a framework. I think you need a framework because otherwise you're going to try to make up your own framework. And I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but you're going to fail. And I don't know what kind of of. There's a lot of different frameworks you can, you can go off of in different situations in your life, right? Like it could be the Navy SEALs sign up for the Navy SEALs. It could be learning from mentors through something like frog logic. It can be Christianity, it can be anything. Right. A lot of different things. But something I didn't realize for a long time was that I actually needed a framework that I could actually, you know, I thought I could figure stuff out on my own, figure it out. And looking back, it's just pure pride. It's just pure pride getting in the, the way of everything. And yeah, I think having a framework is everything. So I'm glad that this exists basically, and people can get help from it.
- [67:53]
David Rutherford
Well, I appreciate that. You're right. I mean, from day one, right, you have a framework. You have a framework how to perceive everything you do. There's a system, a process. And so the hardest thing, I think as any human being that really, really is, has the propensity to think that there's more to life than just consumption. There's more to life than just excess. There's more to life than, than, you know, being selfish and seeking your, you know, these, you know, the deepest desires you have. Right. And that's to contribute. And so how do you best contribute? How do you best contribute, you know, to your team? Team? How do you best contribute to your family, to your loved one, to your children? And, and you're right, it's a framework. And, and, and that was the whole, the whole reason, the whole impetus behind wanting to create something that was rooted not in some mythological self help stuff out there at all, but really based on what life is really about, I believe, which is how it's fundamentally imbued with suffering and pain. And there's no escaping it unless, unless you alter your perception to be able to, in the midst of those moments of pain, to hold on to the things that make us feel truly blessed and that all of this is what worth it. And that's those connections, those, those deep intimate relationships not only with those we love most and hopefully with God and Christ, but, but more so with yourself. So you're right, we do need framework.
- [69:46]
Jordy
Yeah, dude.
- [69:47]
David Rutherford
Yeah, man.
- [69:47]
Jordy
Exactly. That's it.
- [69:49]
David Rutherford
Awesome. Well, I just want to say thank you to everybody. Hey listen, if you're digging the show, please, what we need is we need you to like subscribe on all our different platforms. We really could appreciate comments. Say, whether you love us or hate us, everything's good. Feedback's great. You know, if you have any ideas for shows for us, go ahead and reach out at the dave@davidrutherford.com. you know, please follow us on all the different social media. We're on X, that's at D. Rutherford show. All the other platforms is at David Rutherford show. That's TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Patreon. If you want to join us on Patreon. For $2 a month we give some extra content. We're getting ready to release an actual speech I gave that that is about this, which is the frog logic concepts, its history, the core, the fundamental. So you can find that on our Patreon account if you want to follow me specifically, it's just EAM FrogLogic. You can follow me on all and mostly I'm on X and Instagram. If you go to YouTube, we have a YouTube channel, Rumberg channel, TikTok channel for video and we also post the whole show on all those places as well too. If you are interested in this curriculum, we are. We have the Embrace Fear course available. We will soon have the Forging self Confidence quickly followed up by Live the Team Life course and then probably by the end of August or into September we'll have the Live with purpose. So all of the course, core Frog Logic concept, course and curriculum will be available to you. And we are going to have a special for those coming up here soon. Not quite sure when, maybe mid August or so. But pay attention. But if you want to just get going automatically, you can take the Embrace Fear course immediately. And where can they find that@davidrutherford.com everything will be on Dave Rutherford all right everybody, God bless you. Good luck. I want to thank Christ. I want to thank my beautiful wife, my children. I want to thank you Jordy man and I feel so blessed to have you in my life, brother. Thank you.
- [72:10]
Jordy
Amen.
- [72:11]
David Rutherford
Same to you and thank all of you. God bless who y'.
- [72:13]
BambooHR Advertiser
All.
- [72:17]
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- [72:48]
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- [73:33]
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- [74:04]
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- [74:30]
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- [75:03]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast.