← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
It's a Numbers Game: Honoring Charlie Kirk and 9/11 Memories: A Family’s Story of Survival and Legacy
01:00:10
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- [00:00]
Toni Ann Gradosky
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
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Ryan Graduski
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Toni Ann Gradosky
Ah come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
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- [03:43]
Unnamed Host Reflecting on Charlie Kirk
Now so I recorded this episode on Wednesday about 9 11. It was an episode I've been looking forward to making and releasing for quite some time. And then the assassination happened of Charlie Kirk. And I just need to take a moment and honor this man who died doing what he believed. I met Charlie when He was about 18 years old, I think I was in my early 20s, and he told me he was going to start an organization called Turning Point USA and it was going to change the country and he had all these big dreams and I kind of laughed at him and I was like, okay, you know, best of luck. And he did them all. The last laugh was on him. He was an amazing operative and someone who always got better over time and it's something that I noticed and he won over my deep respect. We weren't close for most of his professional life, but in the last few years he'd reached out to me to try to open up a dialogue and he invited me on a show many times and I was on. I was always very happy to be on and I really grew to respect and get to know him a little bit. And he was a good person, a really, really good person and his death is a tragedy and I I send my deepest condolences to his loved ones, to his wife and children and parents and the TPUSA family. I'VE been praying for the repose of his soul, that he enter the gates of heaven and find eternal salvation. And as a public figure and a public commentator and someone in the public eye, I can tell you it's very scary nowadays. And I'm probably going to do an episode on Monday about assassinations and attempted assassinations and the strain we've had about them. But I just have to honor him and just say that, Charlie, you were better than all your critics combined. They had nothing on you and you showed them and you were great. And to quote the famous poem, you know, brave Horatio at the gate, Every man upon this earth, death comes soon, late. And how can men die better than facing fearful odds for the ashes of his fathers and the temple of his gods? Charlie, you lived a life in the truest form, fighting for what you believed in. And you went out a winner. You went out too early, but you went out a winner. You were a good man and I'm so sorry for everything that's happened to you. May you rest in peace. And now the rest of the episode.
- [06:22]
Ryan Graduski
Welcome back to A Numbers Game with Ryan Graduski. Thank you guys for being here. Again. This is I've wanted to do this episode since I got a podcast platform to speak to people about today. Obviously, it's September 11, 2025, and it 24 years ago, the world changed. Everyone of a certain age now has their own 911 story, even if they weren't in New York or Washington and they just felt fear and concern and remember it or if they joined the military afterwards or whatnot. But as time passes, the wild thing is meeting so many people who don't have a memory of it and don't have a story of it, and some who weren't even born. I mean, I've had employees of mine who were not born when it happened. And you're talking about something that is very distant and this moment that changed the world that we live in and was so deeply part of my life for such a long time, coming from the son of someone who worked there and spent so much time going to memorials and meeting with families and also being the son of a cop. I've realized now that so much time has gone by. I was born in 1987 and 911 is as far from us today as like, the Kennedy assassination was to me when I was born. So, like, I mean, I enjoy history, but I cannot relate to that time. And I wanted to do an episode for somebody who doesn't remember 9 11. And if you like this episode specifically, I would ask that you would share if you have a kid or a grandkid or somebody who has no memory of it. Because I'm trying to say in a way that make them understand and by the way, this whole episode is going to be just about this. We're not doing. Ask me anything. That will all come next week. I will make it up to everybody. But I said. But I decided to do an episode to look back on the day and my experience and my family's experience, specifically my mom, to try to connect with people who have no understanding of what life was like. You know, many historical moments in society, they blend together, right? There's a build up, there's a build up to a war, there's a build up to technological advances, and then there are those moments that are so sudden and so violent that rather than being like something blending, it's like a page turning or a book shutting. It's immediate and there's no going back to it. So if you're under 30 and you have limited memories of that time, or no memories if you're in your early 20s or you're a teenager, the world back then wasn't as connected as it is now. Growing up, we would learn about history of the world, learn about communism or the world wars or large conflicts. And my teachers anyway would say out loud, like, we don't have to worry about that because we have two oceans that isolate us from most of the horrors of the world. 9, 11 seemed the day before, simply impossible because we were told that we had this almost protective force field in America. And even though we were a less connected country, we had a country with a lot more social trust. Obviously there are people like, you know, you wouldn't, you didn't like and you didn't leave your kids with. But we were more trusting of each other in general. And there's many reasons, many, many, many reasons why that's no longer the case today. But it was at the time. So for me, September 11, 2001 was my second day of high school at St. Francis Prep in Queens, New York. The way it worked back then was at my high school is you would have a first class and then you would have homeroom for 15 minutes and then you would have your second class. And remember, there's no smartphones. I didn't own a cell phone. Like none of that existed at all. So second period happened and I had a free period, is my first free period. And you can go anywhere you want, basically, as long as you didn't cause chaos during free periods. And I mean back then they let you leave the school too, like it was crazy. So I went up to the library with a girl from my homeroom named Catherine Gonzalez who left the high school right after freshman year. So I never saw her again. I would love to, I would love to connect with her, if that's even possible, but I have no idea where she is at this point. Well, we ended up going to the library, sitting. And the library had these, these giant windows, floor to ceiling two story windows that connected the east and west wing of the high school so you could see onto the highway and into the like larger neighborhood in eastern Queens facing the. Well, you actually, you couldn't face, you couldn't see the city itself. You could see the area completely. Anyway, I sat on the third table towards the west wing of the school and talking to Catherine. I think about like, I don't know what the hell we were talking about. Something about probably high school, what we think of it so far and you know, if we like our teachers or whatnot. And I barely knew the girl and I look up and I saw my uncle and I said, oh. I said to her, I go, though, there's my uncle. And I didn't like, she made a face like, why is your uncle here? But I didn't sit there and even think twice of it. It's not like he worked there. It was very strange. He was talking to librarian and he walked over to me and he said, we made contact with your mom and she's okay. And I said, what are you talking about? And he looked a librarian and he said something like, oh, you didn't tell the students yet? And he said something about an announcement would be made soon. The librarian said that and he, my uncle just said a plane hit the World Trade Center. My mom worked on the 97th floor of Tower One at Marsh McLennan. And for the moment that he told me that, I thought it was like probably some single man plane who was acting reckless and accidentally crashed into the building. Like that's literally all I could comprehend. And it had happened one time with the Empire State Building like decades before. So I just thought, oh, acc happen and my mom's fine and whatnot. And he was supposed to pick me up, but like in all the panic, my uncle left me and just like left the building. I don't understand why he didn't remember, you know, one job, but he forgot me. And then within minutes of him leaving, there was an announcement on the loudspeaker that Said, if you are the child of a firefighter, cop, EMT, or your parents work in the World Trade center, please come to the guidance counselor's office. Office. So now, even though he had said my mom was okay, I still went because I was. I was lost. I said I didn't understand what was going on. And my dad and his two brothers were New York City police officers. So I didn't know what happened. My dad. I didn't know where my dad was. I. I just knew that he had said someone had contacted my mom. Now, I filed into the guidance counselor's office, and there were so many kids there. There were so many people and especially so many cop and firefighter kids. I remember a lot of them being cop and firefighter kids. I only met one other kid whose parent worked in Marshall McLennan and he was a senior and I was a freshman. And we did start talking and the TVs were on and the TVs had. The school had TVs everywhere because of announcements and stuff like this. So there was a TV on with what was fully on display, which was two buildings on fire and obviously not a one man plane. And I was like desperate to try to get my mom on the phone because it was so much worse than I thought about. I didn't know what. There was no context of how they had spoken to her or when they had spoken to her or what. I was like, I have to hear my mom's voice at that moment. Moment. And the classroom bell changed and I didn't go to class. And I just kind of wandered the school. I don't remember. I know I left. I left the guidance counselor's office before I had spoken to my mom. And I just started wandering the school, not going to class, just watching it on every television that was playing it. And I ended up at the admissions office. And that's when the building fell. And I just looked at someone working at the administrator's office and I said, how many people died? And the lady there was like, I have no idea. And there's like those moments where you look to an adult from a child thinking that they're going to. As a. As a child, you look to an adult and say, they're going to know every. All the answers. And it was just like this emptiness, this emptiness of thought. And I just said, I have to talk to my mom. Somehow I have to figure out how to talk to my mom. And remember it's 2001 and there's no, like, cell phones that existed. Did not even Work because the towers were down. Well, I don't remember when I got to the guidance counselor, I went back to the guidance counselor's office. And I don't know how this happened, but my mom ended up on the phone. I don't, I have not, no recollection how they end up making contact because she didn't have a cell phone. My mom is. I remember talking on the phone and saying, I'm coming home. Like, I'm gonna come home. And my mom has a very, almost Protestant, like, work ethic where she was like, why? You're gonna, you're gonna put the fire out of the building? You're gonna sit there and dig through rubble? No, you're going to class right now. Know there's nothing you could do by being home. So go to class. Go to math class. A like, as. As if in such horror, like, it, it wouldn't have, it wasn't going to. It wouldn't have dawned on her to like, say, oh, he probably can't concentrate on algebra at the moment. But my mother was like, no, you're going to school. Like, you're in school. Go to class. But I didn't, I didn't make it to class. I didn't go to any other classes. I went. As soon as I hung up the phone, my mom. I think I went to the cafeteria for a while and bummed around. And I think I got a payphone and called somebody and said, please pick me up. I'm not staying here. And I told this one girl who I knew my whole life, who knew my mom named Christina, that she was. That my mom had worked there. And the girl in the cafeteria just burst into tears. And it was. It was just chaotic. It was just so chaotic and so many emotions. And me and that girl started talking about who we knew's parents were firefighters and who we knew whose parents worked there or near there. And eventually someone came to pick me up, I think it was my Uncle Mark. And they brought me to my grandma's house. Now, my grandma's house was across the street from my house, and she had two televisions, which was a big deal in 2001 in my working class family, it was a big deal. Anyway, so she had the basement TV going on Cartoon Network because it was the only channel that was not replaying the attacks at 3 o'. Clock. And there were a lot of young cousins and my whole family was there. So the kids were sent to the basement to watch cartoons. And I don't know what the adults honestly were doing Upstairs. But we all just sat there and waited for my mom to show up. And, you know, you couldn't call her and say, what's your eta? We just had to wait and wait and wait. And from my grandma's house, you could see. My grandma's house was in Western Queens on a hill. So you could see downtown, and you could see the smoke clouds. It was the darkest rain cloud you could possibly imagine. You could. You could smell smoke in the air. That is how palpable it was in the immediate aftermath. And my brother's elementary school, my old elementary school, too. My brother was in sixth grade at the time. It was on. It was further up the hill, very near our house. And the way it worked was the most senior members of the school, seventh, eighth, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, they were in the third story, so they were very high. A perfect, clear view of all of the Manhattan skyline. And I don't know why someone did this for, but someone ran into my brother's classroom and said, everyone, look outside. History's being made. And my brother, who was only in the sixth grade at the time, ran to the window, saw, or looked at the window, saw my mom's building on fire and left the room and saw. Got to the stairs of the building, of the floor, and saw it was a Catholic school. So I saw the priest and the nun who was the principal, and he just thought that they were about to tell him that, you know, his mom had passed away. And he burst into hysterics just by the thought of it. I didn't have the same moment because my uncle intercepted me right at the very beginning. So I never had that complete fear. I had a worry of not knowing of long periods, of not being able to get a hold of somebody. Think of how immediate everything is now and how hours would go by without being able to get a hold of anybody, and how horrific everything looked. But my mom made it home that day very, very luckily. And we were all there, the whole family, every cousin, every, you know, aunt and an uncle. And she just, like, collapsed on the couch. And I remember that look of just pure exhaustion on her face. And there was just silence. Nobody spoke. And it felt a very long time. It's probably like 30 seconds, but no one spoke. And I remember thinking in my head, like, break the silence. You know, there's always me with trying to make an opportune time out of things. So I looked at my mom and said, you'll never leave the day that I had. Which didn't make her laugh. She did say what happens Tuesday? But it was primary day in New York City. So cops in New York have to be stationed at different voting sites. And my dad very luckily was stationed in the Bronx. And my uncle, but my other uncle, my uncle Jimmy, was stationed at 911 was in front of the building when it collapsed and he ran one way and his partner ran the other. And his partner never made it out alive. And he did. And there were so many million close calls with so many people that I knew and so many sudden decisions that changed every person's life. And my mom happened to be running late from work that day and my dad happened to be stationed in the Bronx. But I know had she not jumped late to work that day and had my dad been stationed anywhere close to the building my dad would have spent, my dad would have been there the moment it came down in his head looking for my mom. Like, I know that in my absolute heart of hearts. So I. A lot of people who weren't in New York think of the day after and they think of how united the country was and how united we were as a people. And what I remember most distinctly is there were express bus stops throughout all of Queens, including near my house that I grew up in. And on the express bus was pictures taped onto the glass saying, have you seen this person? Have you seen that person? People just hoping that their loved one had suffered amnesia or was in a hospital and was gonna make it home. That's like the thing that I kind of stick with the most. I don't remember national mood of the country. I don't remember George W. Bush's speech. I don't remember Giuliani going down there. I remember that glass though of all those pictures saying, please call so and so if you have seen Tom, Dick and Harry. I think the moment was too big for my 14 year old brain to comprehend. 911 has been harder since the attack, believe it or not, than in the immediate moment because I felt lucky. I felt very, very lucky. But as time passed and I knew so many people who's mostly dads, I knew a lot of dads who didn't come home that day, and friends of people that I knew whose fathers a lot of them were firefighters. And as life events have happened, people got married, people have children, and seeing their dad not there has made me the impact, I feel the impact so much harder as life goes on because I was so lucky. And I did have now these 24 years of both my parents because like I said, a couple minutes difference and my mom would have absolutely been killed on impact and my dad would have been in that building looking for my mom until the minute it fell. So this day makes me incredibly grateful. It makes me deeply sad for other people and it, and it makes me want for someone else who may be the age that I was when it happened to try to understand how it's more than like a meme you may see online of it. There's a lot of jokes with George W. Bush's reaction or some historical event you learn about in school, how it was so real. And I say that as somebody who didn't end up going to a parent's memorial service, but it was so real. And it remains real. And it remains real not just for what was lost in the day, but what has been lost since. I think on a bigger idea also what was lost as far as who we were as a country, the facade that oceans would protect us and that we weren't so entangled in, you know, the globe, the way that we are and the way that we were in the preceding, in the post 9, 11 decades. We'll never go back to that place again. And I really wish sometimes we would. 9:10 in America was a really, really nice place to live. It genuinely was. So for this episode, my special guest is my mom who worked at Marsh McLennan on 97th floor of Tower One. And she's gonna tell her story of survival and grief and what was lost and how she deals with that. And I'm very excited about this conversation, so please stay tuned. And that's coming up next.
- [26:47]
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- [29:49]
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- [30:20]
Ryan Graduski
With me on today's episode is my mom, Toni Ann Gradosky. Mom, thanks for being here.
- [30:26]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Thank you for having me.
- [30:28]
Ryan Graduski
So, mom, paint a picture for my audience. Where did you work?
- [30:33]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I worked at Marsha McLennan in 2001. We were located on the 97th floor of Tower One.
- [30:41]
Ryan Graduski
So let's go back to that day. You know, when I was a kid who was constantly late to grammar school. People were expecting you to be late because I was always late. And then I went to high school and I had to actually show up on time, so. But you were late that day. So why don't we go over what happened on 9 11?
- [31:05]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Okay. Well, on that, the night before, on September 10th, set the alarm and planned on being to work in the office by 8 o'. Clock. We had budget meetings all day, as we did on Monday. And I woke up and something just told me not to rush. And I decided that budgets is going to be another hell day. So I just took my time. And I would have been in the office at like 10 to 9. So I would have been on time. I just wasn't. I didn't follow the plan I had of getting in very early.
- [31:45]
Ryan Graduski
What did you, you took the train back then?
- [31:49]
Toni Ann Gradosky
No, I used to drive to Long Island City, leave my car there and then take the train.
- [31:54]
Ryan Graduski
The E train?
- [31:56]
Toni Ann Gradosky
No.
- [31:56]
Ryan Graduski
What train?
- [31:57]
Toni Ann Gradosky
The seven to the F. Okay, I'm sorry, the seven to the two to the one.
- [32:02]
Ryan Graduski
Gotcha. Okay.
- [32:03]
Toni Ann Gradosky
So that morning it was a beautiful sky. And back then, when the LIE breaks off and you get off Van Damme street, there only used to be one lane, but everyone used to make it two. It was just normal every morning because otherwise you backed up on the BQE for miles. So we always made two and illegally. But we cut off the other cars. We just merge. We carried our own merge. Well, that morning, because it was so gorgeous out, I was like, I'm just taking my time. And I didn't again, I didn't rush and cut everybody off like I normally would have. So I sat in the line of traffic and then I did my normal commute.
- [32:49]
Ryan Graduski
So you take the 2 train, you get off the train at the World.
- [32:53]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Trade center at the 2 train, I get off and I take the 2 trains and express train and you take it to Chamber street and then you transfer to the local, which would have been the one train, and take it to right inside the building. You take it to the building.
- [33:08]
Ryan Graduski
So one train stops literally underneath the building?
- [33:11]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yes. So that day I just missed the one. There was nobody on the platform, so I know I just missed it. I didn't see it leave, but it was. I knew I just missed it.
- [33:22]
Ryan Graduski
So what time did you pull in underneath the building?
- [33:27]
Toni Ann Gradosky
So the one train. So I'm sitting at the two platform and the one train never came. So the two trains kept coming, the Expresses were still coming. And a gentleman that I had met and worked in, too, World Trade, he worked for a different company. And we met each other. We sat on the platform, we're joking around, laughing, and we just let the twos go. We're waiting for a one and the ones never came. So I said, we have to make a decision. We either have to get on the two and walk, because then it leaves you off by five World Trade and you walk, or we have to go out on Chambers street and just walk the whole way. He goes, let's take the two. So we took the two train. I got back on the train then. And it takes you to 5 world trade. And as you're walking underground now, we hear an explosion.
- [34:12]
Ryan Graduski
Because New York City subways, for those who are not from New York and never been here, it's almost a block long underground. So you could walk. You could walk. You could walk a literal block underground.
- [34:24]
Toni Ann Gradosky
So actually, as we got the train and we're walking, a woman walked towards us and said, there's smoke. So we like, oh, let's check it out. We kept walking towards the smoke, right? How stupid. So we were walking and then within a minute, not even. We heard an explosion. Like there was a bomb in the subway. That's how the subway shook. So then we.
- [34:47]
Ryan Graduski
That was the second plane.
- [34:49]
Toni Ann Gradosky
So of course we turn around and we leave and go out the exit and we go upstairs and then we see what's going on. But, yes, that was the second plane getting hit, the second building getting hit. So when we get outside, we can see the fire, the smoke, we can count how many floors. I worked on the 97th floor, so I can see that the impact on my building was on our floors. Both buildings at this point were on fire and smoke.
- [35:17]
Ryan Graduski
But you could tell your floor had been hit?
- [35:20]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I could tell my floor got hit.
- [35:21]
Ryan Graduski
So what block did you get out of the train?
- [35:24]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I got out on Park Place, which. So you get. It's right there as soon as the subway station right. Right outside the Trade Center.
- [35:33]
Ryan Graduski
So could you see debris on the floor on the street, or.
- [35:36]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I wasn't that close where I could see that. I could definitely see the buildings. I don't remember seeing debris at that point. It was just the initial impacts. It was still early, so the streets were not full yet because the buildings were still standing. But I ran in. So I was with this gentleman. He kept on saying, my colleagues, my colleagues. I'm like just in dazed from sun because I just can't figure it all out. And I ran into a woman that I did work with and she lived on like 10, 15 blocks away. I can't think of the name of the street off the top of my head, but she lived on the Upper west side or the Lower west side. So she goes, let's go to my house, let's see what's going on. I have three phones.
- [36:26]
Ryan Graduski
You ran to her on the street?
- [36:27]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yeah, she got three phone lines. She goes, I have three phone lines. Because her husband worked at home. And we'll go check out, we'll see what's going on.
- [36:34]
Ryan Graduski
Three phone lines in the 2000s, that's a big deal.
- [36:39]
Toni Ann Gradosky
And she said, now we'll come back, we'll see what's going on, we'll get situated and we'll come back. So I said, I can't until I said, how long of a walk? She said, 15 minutes. I said, great, I have to call my family first. So my next thing is I stood online for a payphone. We really didn't have cell phones. We did, but they didn't work really at that, that day because the tower went out communications, which is on top of One World Trade. So. But I did have a BlackBerry text message which did still work at some points during the morning. And people, and my people that worked for me were texting me, saying, oh, I'm. I'm going to vote someone else text me. I ran late. My son, I fell asleep with my son never said they, you know, didn't get up. So I was getting some text messages and I wait online for the phone. And where is this still? Right by where I got off the train, still in the same place and see the building. So I call my mom and I tell them that I'm fine, I'm outside the building. Right. And.
- [37:47]
Ryan Graduski
And you don't know what time this is? About 9:30.
- [37:49]
Toni Ann Gradosky
You gotta be no, 8. No, it had to be like just 9 o', clock, a couple minutes after 9, because the building I hit at 8:46. So the next one was. I don't remember the exact times of the second building, but it's, let's Say it's. Let's say it's about 9 o', clock, give or take. So people are online on the phone. They're like talking, telling, like, you know, sitting on the phone for like what seemed like minutes. I'm like, everyone's screaming, just tell them you're okay. And hang up the phone. Because the line, of course, is getting longer. So I call my parents, like I said. I tell them that I'm safe, I'm outside the building.
- [38:21]
Ryan Graduski
You go with your colleagues.
- [38:23]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I go with my friend and we walk to her apartment. As we're walking, I hear another explosion. Don't know what it is. We keep walking. I get to her apartment and her husband's there and he's got the TV on. And I look at the TV and I'm like. From this angle, I can only see one building. And she knew it, but she didn't say anything to me. So we get. When I said that, she said, remember that noise we heard? She goes, that's the building. The building fell. I had no idea. I didn't even contemplate the building would fall. So that's when the building fell. So from my parents perspective, I just called and said I was fine, I was outside, but I didn't even think of that. Right now we are trying to figure out who's good, who's not, who would we call?
- [39:11]
Ryan Graduski
So how long is the walk from the building to her apartment?
- [39:15]
Toni Ann Gradosky
About 15 minutes.
- [39:16]
Ryan Graduski
So it's not that long.
- [39:17]
Toni Ann Gradosky
It's not that long. So the first building fell while we were walking. Like I said, when we got to her house, the other building was still standing.
- [39:25]
Ryan Graduski
The second plane had hit so much lower in the building that there was a lot more weight that was holding. The beams were holding up whatever was surviving. So what was going through your head on that 15 minute walk? Do you remember?
- [39:39]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I don't. I don't remember. Honestly, I was more, I think, in shock than anything else. And we were trying to see who else survived. I guess that's what I was thinking of because that's what we went there for. We went there to make some phone calls to find out who's okay and who's not. And while we were at her house, the bell rang, the doorbell rang, and we were like, who's that gonna be? And it ended up being someone that she had worked with at a different company that was a friend of hers showed up and he was, he was with us that morning. But we were able to call the office. Prime location was Midtown on 45th Street. And 6th Avenue, their phone still worked. So we were able to call there and see a little bit about what was going on, what they were doing there. We were even able to actually, the gentleman that came to the house, his family lived in Florida. We could not call from her apartment, even though we had phone lines. We couldn't call Florida, but we were able to call the 11th. The Midtown office had them transfer us to Florida, and he was able to get through. So the phone lines were. Yeah, the phone lines were all messed up.
- [40:48]
Ryan Graduski
One thing I think about before you go any further is so my grandparents, my mom's parents who she referenced, they were very close to us. They lived across the street from us. And my grandfather, specifically was a very stoic man. He was very funny, but he wasn't somebody who had a lot of expressions. He didn't sit there and talk a lot. Is the least Italian thing about him, was how quiet he was. And he didn't show a broad range of emotions. Later on, they told me that. I guess it was Grandma's sister, my Aunt Mary, who had called Grandma to tell her that the planes were hit. And she turned on the television and Grandpa saw it. And Grandpa, like, according to Aunt Mary, who said she could. I mean, she told me this even recently, she said she still can hear my grandpa's voice screaming at, like, the top of his lungs because he was so afraid that you had died. And he. That is always one of the things, I think, that send me the most chills here. I'm at it. In the immediate aftermath was because I can't imagine Grandpa being scared. You know what I mean?
- [41:50]
Toni Ann Gradosky
And the second. Well, what happened, too, was what I heard again, I wasn't there, is that they were okay. When I got to tell them I was fine, but then I said I was outside the building. And then. So I don't know if that conversation with Aunt Mary was before, afterwards, the first. But the building then fell after. I just said I was outside. So I heard that he went up in his room and he was crying his eyes out. But. Because at that point, I mean, he knew the area. He worked down there every day. So he knew where I was in the situation, and he thought I was buried under the building.
- [42:27]
Ryan Graduski
Do you remember what they said, what you said to them when you talked about. Would you mention us?
- [42:32]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yeah, I did mention you. I knew you were in high school, and I knew you were where you were. I was told that your uncle was. Had gone to meet you, and I was told that your other uncle, my other Brother in law went to go get Daniel. So I knew they were. That they were reaching out to you both. But at that point in time, that's all I knew. After I got. Was at the house, the apartment, we did try making phone calls out, and I did. And I don't remember how, but I did get through to your high school.
- [43:06]
Ryan Graduski
Yeah, I don't remember how we got you on the phone, but we did. Somehow.
- [43:10]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yeah, somehow we got in touch. And you were with another young man whose father worked in the same company as I did.
- [43:17]
Ryan Graduski
He was a senior and I was a freshman.
- [43:19]
Toni Ann Gradosky
And they were. That school did amazing job at protecting the kids and giving them information, but making sure they were okay. And he's with. Ryan was with a guidance counselor. And they were. This other boy was looking for his dad. And they kept saying, do you know him? And do you know if he's okay? And his name was familiar to someone I worked with. So we challenged that for a second. He goes, no, this is his name. I said, no, I don't know who that is. I don't even know him. But. And I said, the situation down here, there's no way I know if anybody's okay. I can't tell you that. So fast forward. Thankfully, this man was fine. I actually visited him once. We went back to the office and we were back midtown. I found him and I told him that our sons were together during this whole thing. So I did chat with him, but I did find out he was okay.
- [44:05]
Ryan Graduski
Do you. Do you. When you came home that day, I remember you saying that you didn't know if certain people were still alive. How long did it take for everyone to like email each other and just say, I'm okay?
- [44:18]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Well, it really wasn't emails. We did is. They were like phone call chains. So I still have it. I have like this yellow pad of paper. I could picture it. And we would like all our friends were calling each other and says, oh, I heard from Mary and I heard from John and I heard from Susan. And we were just writing names down of who we heard from. And every time we got through to somebody, we were telling them who we heard through the grapevine. That was okay. But even still, there were people that were not okay. There was a gentleman who. So we. I used to work with his sister in law years prior, like in May season. I had no idea that they were related until after the event. But he had called in so his name on the safe list. But he was in a conference room in the building and he passed so he was on the list, and it was not correct. So there were a couple of those. The one gentleman who was an admin for my boss, a friend of mine, I had not heard about him. So when you go through the. I mean, you talk about two days of. So it was Tuesday when I got home, all day Wednesday. I went back to the office on Thursday. But on those two days, that's all we did is figuring out who was around.
- [45:26]
Ryan Graduski
So it wasn't like an email chain saying, send me a reply if you're alive or whatever?
- [45:31]
Toni Ann Gradosky
No, no, no, no. Not at all. But there was. When you went into the building, there was a desk set up to call in if anybody had questions. And they did amazing for the family members. And then they had, like, postage sheets on the wall. The entire wall was filled with names. So as you found out, someone was a survivor. The name went up on the wall or may have been reversed, but the names were on the wall. So I remember. And they had a volunteer list at the desk of who wanted to be, you know, make themselves available to answer the phone for families and such. And this one guy who I worked with, who I was very close with, I had not known if he was alive. He was not on the list. He was not on any list anywhere. And then his name. I go to. To sign up to help, and his name is on the list. And I, like, freaked out. I was like, is anyone on this list? He had signed up, so he was okay. But it was just a very emotional moment for me. The other emotional moment is some managers. We still have a business, we still have to run it. But I walked into a conference room, and there are a bunch of people in there again, I'd seen for the first time. And he's running a meeting, and I go in, and I'm just bawling my eyes out, hugging this other woman that's there. We're both crying. He's still conducting the meeting. He goes, hi, Tony. And he keeps on going. And that was like, another moment that we just saw each other. And from that day on, from the Thursday on, every day. They didn't force you to go to work. You could have stayed out for two months if you wanted to. We chose to go in. I thought we got a lot accomplished in the beginning, but we went to.
- [47:05]
Ryan Graduski
The office in Midtown.
- [47:06]
Toni Ann Gradosky
We get to the office in Midtown, and we just kissed and hugged hello, everybody, every day. So not the typical work experience, but for like, a month, it was this bond that we had with each other that was like, no other.
- [47:22]
Ryan Graduski
So Marsh McLennan lost 358 people, which is about 20% of the workforce. They had. My mom's making a basic.
- [47:30]
Toni Ann Gradosky
On the IT side. I worked in technology. We lost about 50%, like 45% consultants and some employees.
- [47:39]
Ryan Graduski
Well, they had eight, eight floors and.
- [47:41]
Toni Ann Gradosky
We were 94 to 10, 99.
- [47:44]
Ryan Graduski
Oh, 55 floors, whatever it was. Yeah, that's not that I. Yeah, so it was a lot.
- [47:48]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yeah. And that day, if we had our budget meetings as we did the day before, we would have been on 99 in the conference rooms the entire day.
- [47:56]
Ryan Graduski
You always would say that. You would. When you were at work, you'd see birds flying below you. Well, no, I never got to go to your office.
- [48:02]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Well, they would actually walk around and put the blinds down because the birds would fly in and they would put nets around the building is what I was told to catch the birds. So in my head, even on that day, as I'm counting the floors and I see people by the windows and then I. Unfortunately, I did see people jump and I think I know who they were again, based upon the floors. And I know who was left in the building and who was trapped. There was a dozen people together, friends of mine. And, you know, you saw the jumping. I was like, the nets are there, like in my head. Because you aren't making any sense at the moment. But.
- [48:39]
Ryan Graduski
But you want it all to be okay.
- [48:41]
Toni Ann Gradosky
You wanted everyone to be okay. And you're like, oh, they're jumping because, you know, the firemen have those big, you know, not thinking that you're 97 floors, that's not going to do a damn thing right.
- [48:50]
Ryan Graduski
Hey, we'll be right back after this.
- [48:53]
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- [52:27]
Ryan Graduski
I was thinking about this today. You. I am your age when 911 happened. Like I was the age that you were now when 911 happened, which is like really crazy.
- [52:39]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I never thought of that.
- [52:40]
Ryan Graduski
I am. Yeah. And one thing that I think about now as an adult and you presented a very brave face in the moment to me and my brother. Were you afraid of staying? A lot of left New York because they were terrified and they were afraid of another terrorist attack. And we didn't do any of that. I was in school two days later her and we just kept on keeping up. But were you like, I gotta get my family out of New York. Were you afraid for living in the city?
- [53:12]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I never, never thought of that at all, honestly. And I don't know why I didn't. Although there was. Maybe it had to be 2003, there was an event where there was a. A power outage and like all the lights and everything went out downtown.
- [53:35]
Ryan Graduski
That's when the whole eastern seaboard went out.
- [53:39]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I don't know if it was the same event, but I just remember all of downtown was out. Hoboken was out because they moved us to Hoboken. That's where our new offices were located. And I used to leave early on Thursdays to come home to be with you guys. And I was on the ferry and when the lights went out, so then I thought that was another attack. But I never thought of leaving. I never thought of leaving the city.
- [54:06]
Ryan Graduski
Do you ever get Survivor's Guild or did you have Survivors Guild?
- [54:10]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I did a lot. I think I still do to some extent. My good friend that I used to work at McDonald's with when we were 17, he passed. We worked together at Marsh. He passed 9 11. And I went to go visit his father the next day on the 12th. And his father said to me, after losing his son, he said to me, there's a reason why you're still here. You have something you have to do. And that has stuck with me these 24 years. And I'm always worried that, did I do what I'm doing, what I'm supposed to do, and if I do do that, does that mean it's been my last day? I really, I think of that all the time. But it was very, you know, especially in the beginning, it was very, very hard to be a survivor. And you know, as you Know, we were forgotten.
- [55:00]
Ryan Graduski
You always would say that.
- [55:02]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yeah, I mean, because I think it's hard. It's hard living through it. But the one good thing is we had each other. So we got each other through when.
- [55:13]
Ryan Graduski
I mean afterwards. We went to memorials every year, all the time. We actually spoke to. We spend a lot. You've developed very close relationships with people's families. But even my brother and I spent a lot of time with people's families. How do you keep those people's memories going?
- [55:33]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Well, I guess it's so on 911 every year I have the one group of people, that guy that hired me and my original team that I worked with, we still get together to this day on 9 11. And we saw the same stories about things that happened for the people that passed. And we, we have their, you know, we drink Amaron for, for. I mean we toasted that for one person that we lost. And initially, sorry, going back is that we used to like, we used to on people that pass birthdays besides the anniversary of their. Of 9 11. But on the individual's birthdays we would have their favorite. Like this is during the middle of the day we would have their favorite snacks. So like one gentleman, I'll never forget this, he used to have every morning a can of Coke and a Krispy Kreme donut every morning. So of course every morning, every morning, his birthday we would do. We did that the first year we did it. We did it at 8:30 and we all crashed by 2. So the next year we did it at noon and again it didn't really work that great. And so then we started doing it like at 4 o' clock and we don't know how he used to eat that every day, but we did that, you know. And then other people had their little things and we would do special things on their birthdays. Marsh has amazing memorial walls that I still visit. Anytime I was in the building. I always go out there. And it's very respectful because you're not allowed to go on the platform. It's a long platform. They're not allowed to go on the platform. You're not allowed to use eat lunch on there because there's a bench, you're not allowed to use your cell phone on there. And there's a guard standing watching it to this day. And not only do they list the names, but they put this. They have an overlay of smoked glass with their signatures to show each person was unique. It's not just, just a person's name that died on 9, 11. But it shows a little individuality for each person and that they were unique.
- [57:40]
Ryan Graduski
How do you parse through something that was both deeply personal but a historical. A historical event? I mean, can you look at it? We're 24 years away from it. For a lot of people, it is just like it would be like you reading about Pearl harbor, me reading about the Kennedy assassination. It doesn't. You know what I mean? Are you able to look at it at all as a historical event that we just lived through?
- [58:10]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I think I take it more personal. I don't. I mean, I do think about the landmark dates, like next year's 25 years, unbelievably. But I really don't look at it as a. As a national event, except for the fact that it bothered me when the country forgot. And even as far as the memorial service that's done and recorded, broadcasted on the major networks on Thursday, the rest of the country doesn't. And I think it was maybe year three. I was watching the names with a friend of mine in my house and we got a phone call from his sister in Florida and said, they're not reading the names here. And it was early, so I was waiting for the it to get. A little bit later, I call my friend in California. I'm like, mo, is. Are the names being read? And she said, no. And that was like year three. I mean, it was so early on, and it bothered me that the world has forgotten because it was so tragic and it was on our. Our land. But again, like you said, Harbor. I don't connect with that, but this is very close to me, so I do connect with me and it bothers me.
- [59:19]
Ryan Graduski
Did you ever seek therapy for PTSD or anything?
- [59:22]
Toni Ann Gradosky
The company made us go to see somebody, so I did do the one session that we were required to do, but I never did any more than that. Should I have? Possibly. But I didn't.
- [59:36]
Ryan Graduski
Yeah. You know, now that it is so far out, the people that I knew who were my age, whose parents didn't come home, you know, the names, the life events that I see that their parents have missed, is what I more or less get guilty about sometimes is the fact that they just. They were like you in the sense that they were going to do their job. They were like you, like they were going to do their job any other day. They were not. It was supposed to be just a beautiful Tuesday, so I feel enormously grateful and lucky. But I think that in that gratefulness is a lot of sadness when you look at other People and you're like, wow, they didn't have that. 24 years is a long time to have somebody extra in your life. So I think about that quite a bit now especially. It didn't impact me when it first happened because it seemed too big. You know what I mean? It seemed like too big to understand. I was 14 years old. It was too big to understand. Now it's not too big for me to understand, my brain to comprehend, but it's also seeing somebody saying, oh, they have. They got married, their mom walking down the aisle because their dad passed away. They had a baby. There is no grandfather or grandmother. It's mostly grandfathers. It's mostly men that I knew who passed away. Like most of you, as dads. Yeah. But in my case, anyway. But like, it's. Their grandfather's not there for that. That is. That's really. That's where honestly, it becomes more real every year in a certain way is when we have certain life events. And knowing that I have both my parents and I have for two decades, and I could have, if things were just minusculely different, had zero parents. I mean, just dad was assigned to a different place that day, and you were 10 minutes late or 10 minutes early. Radically, a radically different life. And that's what I think about more as time goes on. So I'm sorry for being an utter pain in your ass. For my teenage part of that 24 years, now that I think back, so, so grateful for it. I'm sorry. Such a pain from 17 to 2016-20, depending on the moment.
- [62:11]
Toni Ann Gradosky
And, you know, I've seen a lot of the kids and I've kept. Like you said, I've kept in touch with many families and some of the parents, you know, the surviving parent and families have been amazing. And I think those are the kids that are able to cope with it better because they have a good support system and having. And being there for your child to overcome this, even through your own grief, because a lot of, you know, I'll say women that I know had to deal with their own suffering as well as be there. I mean, one good friend of mine, his wife, she'd come to all of our. Because she was friends with everyone. She's amazing. Like, she would remember you, your name, everything about you that her husband told her. I had never met her before, and her husband told her things like, oh, how was your day? And blah, blah, blah, and he would tell stories and she remembered it all. And she would come to all of the services because we spent as you know, months. I mean, there are times I went to four funerals or services, celebration of life, whatever the family deemed it to be a week. I mean, I went to so many of them, but sometimes multiple in a day. And she was in many of them. And she'd be like, but how are you guys doing? You're not. I'm suffering one, you're suffering hundreds. And which always amazed me because she was so beyond herself and she is such the best example of what a mother should be in a situation and fill in the gap of mother and father. She is amazing.
- [63:44]
Ryan Graduski
How was. I never asked this question. How did Grandma and grandpa, how did they try to be there for you?
- [63:52]
Toni Ann Gradosky
They didn't. I mean, they didn't know how to handle that.
- [63:55]
Ryan Graduski
Yeah.
- [63:56]
Toni Ann Gradosky
I mean.
- [63:58]
Ryan Graduski
They were from a different time too.
- [64:00]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yeah. And the thing is, is that they, they didn't know how to comprehend it. Actually, I was told at some point, aren't you over it yet? And they. So they didn't comprehend. They didn't understand. And. No. And you know what? If you didn't live through it, that or any other. I mean, there are some people, luckily enough have never had loss of anyone that wasn't. Didn't live fully their life. Right. Meaning that they died under the age of 70 or 80. There's a lot of people that ever experienced that. They only have death involved in their life when it's, you know, natural. Not natural causes, but you know what I mean? After years of suffering, after being 80 years old and saying that person had a good life there, no one in our family really had or very few people had a loss of someone that was eight or someone that was a young, newly married spouse. So they didn't know how to deal with it. So I didn't, I didn't hold them, hold that against them or get mad at them for that not being there for me because they didn't know how. I didn't know how, you know?
- [65:06]
Ryan Graduski
Yeah. Because it's dozens of people that just extinguish. They're there one day and that life is gone.
- [65:12]
Toni Ann Gradosky
They didn't know how to get. How to deal with that. But one thing, again, going back, talking about families in Marsh, they mmc, I should say they were amazing for the families. They had hotels set up. People came in and we would, we would work the room. I'd sit at a desk and they would come. Families would come up to me. They just wanted to know where their, their family sat. Like, where were they in the building? Not that they were in their desk at that moment. But they wanted to know where they sat. And I drew floor plans on the spot like you know, for every single person saying, okay, so your son sat here or your daughter sat here. I know the people that I lost from my team because I had a team at the time. I had a team of eight people and I lost three. And two of them were on one side of the elevator, the opposite side of the elevate beta bank of impact. But we did sit in the center of the floor. So the way our plane got hit from what I seen and visualized is that the plane went right through the building and they didn't even hear or see a thing. Like there was no one of them would have seen it like for a second because she faced the window that got hit, but she was at her desk, but I don't think she was. And so, you know, but I have millions of stories about millions of people. You asked before about leaving the country. One of the gentlemen that survived, he's a gentleman leaving the city. Well, he was leaving the country, he went to Canada, but he would be in the office at 8 o' clock every morning because I had shifts. I managed a support team back then and there were shifts. So he was supposed to be there and he's the one. He fell asleep and he didn't get up in time. He told me he was going to be late. He could not handle it because his work wife, this woman, she passed and they worked side by side together for the whole time he was employed with me and he could not handle the loss of her and he ended up taking his son. He had a new young son, moved to Canada. But it's hard when you think about the families. Like the other woman who worked for me, her father planned vacation and she originally planned it that they were going to leave on whatever day and be back on the 12th. She came to me two weeks before the vacation and said my dad changed the dates. Is it okay if I take off a day earlier and come back on the 11th? And I said absolutely fine. I partially wish I said no because she had an 11 year old son and she passed and if the original vacation plans would have stayed in place, she would have been alone.
- [67:56]
Ryan Graduski
So yeah. Our uncle who was a window washer at the World Trade center had a colleague who actually, believe it or not, he told me because that man, the man who passed away, who was the window washer that our uncle knew, is not on the 911 memorial and our uncle believes that he was illegally in the country and no one even knew. No one had a record of him. The young kid, he was an older person.
- [68:28]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Somebody else, another window washer passed too.
- [68:30]
Ryan Graduski
Another window washer pastor had a Polish name, but there was another man who was not. I know that he was not listed and our uncle believes that he was illegally in the country and that's why his name is never listed anywhere. I talked about that. Anyway, thank you for coming on and talking about this, Mom. I appreciate it. And I normally say where can people go to read your stuff? But nowhere. So thank you. Thank you for just coming on and doing this for me because I think it is important to have a perspective from someone who was there.
- [69:02]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Yeah. And for any tragedy that happens, hopefully no more ever happen. But always remember the survivors. Like the poor children in the recent shooting in Minnesota. Minnesota is. Everyone prays for the families, which they deserve. All of our prayers. But I feel for those children who was sitting next to someone that got shot and passed.
- [69:29]
Ryan Graduski
Yeah.
- [69:30]
Toni Ann Gradosky
Because they'll never be the same and they are more, more front, close to it than I even was. But those are the people that we need to help to make sure that they, you know, get, get, get, get past it enough where it doesn't affect the rest of their lives.
- [69:47]
Ryan Graduski
That's all for this episode of A Numbers Game with Ryan Graduski. If you like this podcast, please like and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever. Get your podcast. We'll be back to politics on Monday while you guys come and listen to this. I hope you enjoy this episode. If you did, you could shoot me an email. Ryan numbers game podcast.com that's ryan@Numberspluralgame podcast.com or send me a question about anything else. I'll answer them on air for a little backlog. So I might do an Ask me Anything episode coming up soon. But thank you again for listening. It's meant a lot to me to do so I really appreciate everyone for being on this listening, this journey with me. Thank you.
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