It's a Numbers Game: Karen Read Acquitted! Turtleboy Reacts

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Episode: It's a Numbers Game: Karen Read Acquitted! Turtleboy Reacts
Release Date: June 19, 2025
Host: Brian Graduski
Description: Brian Graduski delves into pressing political issues and captivating true crime stories, offering insightful analysis and engaging conversations.

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1. Introduction and Personal Update

Timestamp: [02:42]
Brian Graduski opens the episode by sharing personal news about being selected as the keynote speaker at the upcoming Bob Dole Dinner for the Kansas Republican Party. He expresses both excitement and nervousness about honoring Bob Dole's legacy while discussing future political landscapes.

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2. Political Segment: UK Grooming Gangs Report

Timestamp: [04:00]
Brian shifts focus to international politics, highlighting a significant development in the UK. The Labour government has initiated a comprehensive investigation into grooming gangs, a topic Brian has previously addressed about a decade ago.

Key Points:

• Baroness Louise Casey's Report: A 200-page document reveals that Mirpuri Pakistanis from the Kashmir province are disproportionately involved in grooming gang activities in the UK.
• Statistical Insights: Out of 323 cases reviewed under Operation Stove Wood, 62% of groomers were Pakistani, despite constituting only 3% of the UK population.
• Government Recommendations:
  • Stricter charges for adults engaging in sexual activities with minors.
  • Launching a new national criminal operation to combat grooming gangs.
  • Collecting comprehensive ethnicity and national data on suspects.
  • Researching the drivers behind group-based child sexual exploitation.
  • Enhancing regulation and licensing standards for taxi drivers to prevent predatory behavior.

Notable Quote:
"The Equality Act is the linchpin behind enabling police officers to neglect their duties in these cases." — Brian Graduski ([10:15])

Brian's Perspective:
He commends the Labour government for taking these steps, criticizing the Equality Act of 2010 for hindering police investigations due to fear of being labeled racist. Brian advocates for repealing parts of this Act to empower law enforcement to address grooming gangs effectively.

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3. True Crime Segment: The Karen Reed Trial

Timestamp: [12:00]
Brian transitions to his passion for true crime, discussing the high-profile trial of Karen Reed, accused of the murder of John O'Keefe.

Case Overview:

• Incident Details: On January 28, 2022, Karen Reed and John O'Keefe were out drinking in Canton, Massachusetts. They attended an after-party at another police officer's home despite severe snowstorm conditions.
• Allegations: Prosecutors allege that an intoxicated Reed intentionally backed her car into O'Keefe, causing his death, and then fled the scene.
• Defense Claims: Reed's legal team contends that O'Keefe was murdered inside the Albert family's home, possibly involving a dog attack, and that evidence was tampered with to frame Reed.

Trial Outcome:
After four days of deliberation, the jury acquitted Karen Reed of all major charges, convicting her only of driving under the influence.

Community Reaction:
The verdict has polarized communities, with some believing Reed was wrongfully framed by corrupt police, and others convinced of her culpability.

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4. Exclusive Interview: Aiden Carney (Turtle Boy)

Timestamp: [19:59]

Introduction:
Brian introduces Aiden Carney, known as Turtle Boy, who played a pivotal role in the grassroots movement advocating for Karen Reed's exoneration. Aiden now faces charges of witness intimidation due to his activism.

Interview Highlights:

• Motivation to Act:
  "I realized this was the story of the century and knew I had to get involved." — Aiden Carney ([20:19])

• Perception of the Trial:
  Aiden believed Reed's innocence was evident and was dismayed by the initial mistrial. He actively sought out jurors to understand their perspectives, uncovering internal doubts about the prosecution's case.

• Views on Law Enforcement:
  He criticizes the Boston Police Department for protecting the McCabes and obstructing justice, comparing their loyalty to that seen in other professions like teaching.

• Legal Consequences:
  Aiden discusses his arrest for confronting Jennifer McCabe and emphasizes that his actions were merely journalistic inquiries, not criminal intimidation.

  "I did nothing wrong... it's ridiculous to think I'm intimidating people." — Aiden Carney ([28:22])

• Speculations on the Case:
  Aiden theorizes that O'Keefe was involved in a confrontation within the Albert household, possibly leading to his accidental death by a dog attack and subsequent hasty cover-up by those present.

  "I think they put him outside to make it look like she hit him." — Aiden Carney ([30:43])

• Future Endeavors:
  Despite facing potential imprisonment, Aiden plans to continue his activism through documentaries, speaking engagements, and writing a book.

Notable Quote:
"I never defend people who are charged with murdering police, but this case was so clear, I had to act." — Aiden Carney ([21:15])

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5. Ask Me Anything (AMA) Segment

Timestamp: [40:06]
Brian addresses listener questions, focusing on polling quality related to immigration enforcement and political sentiment.

Key Discussions:

• Polling Accuracy:
  Brian emphasizes the importance of understanding how questions are framed in polls and the overarching trends rather than isolated data points.

• Historical Context of Immigration Sentiment:
  He provides a comprehensive overview of American attitudes towards immigration since 1965, highlighting significant shifts post-9/11 and during the Trump administration.

• Policy Recommendations:
  Advocates for a points-based immigration system with reduced overall numbers, prioritizing highly skilled immigrants to align with 21st-century economic needs.

Listener Questions Included:

• Impact of Poll Questioning on Public Opinion
• Brian’s Views on European Politics and Media Outlets
• Opinions on Immigration Policy Terminologies like "Abundance"

Notable Quote:
"A majority of Americans have wanted lower levels of legal immigration since the 80s, yet politicians have consistently increased it." — Brian Graduski ([45:30])

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6. Conclusion

Brian wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to subscribe and stay tuned for future episodes, particularly highlighting the in-depth discussion with Turtle Boy.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show" (as per provided information, though the transcript indicates a different show) offers a blend of political analysis and engrossing true crime narrative. Brian Graduski provides a critical examination of systemic issues in the UK’s approach to grooming gangs and delivers a gripping account of the contentious Karen Reed trial, enriched by an exclusive interview with a key activist. The AMA segment further engages listeners by addressing relevant socio-political concerns, making this episode a comprehensive and thought-provoking listen.

---

Note:
While the provided podcast information cites "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," the transcript reflects content from "Numbers Game Podcast with Brian Graduski." This summary aligns with the transcript's content and structure.

Transcript

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Welcome back to a numbers game podcast with Brian Graduski. Thank you for coming on this Thursday episode. I am on my way to Kansas. I will be the keynote speaker this weekend at the Bob Dole Dinner for the Kansas Republican Party, which is very exciting. I'm very nervous. I wanted to do a good job and pay tribute to like the legacy of Bob Dole, but talk about the future. But this was, it's very nerve wracking and I'm honored to be invited, but at the same time, I'm not exactly sure why I was invited, but I'm excited. Funny story, Bob Dole running for president. 1996 was the first time I realize that there was an election for president. I was like 9 years old in school and we to learn about it. And I remember going, learning about all the candidates running and going home to my parents and saying, I learned about this election and I want you to vote for Ross Perot. They didn't, they voted for Dole. But I think I might open my speech with saying that I was a pro fan at the age of nine. Anyway, hopefully it goes well and I'll tell you how it goes next week and they don't boom me as part of Bob Dole's revenge for being a you thrust pro supporter. Today's gonna be a unique episode. I have some numbers I want to throw you guys up, but I'm gonna have a non political story and interview that I think you guys would find very fascinating. So first in the political stuff across the pond over at the uk, the labor government finally did an about face this week and did a proper investigation into grooming gangs. Now, for those who don't know, I appeared on the BBC almost 10 years ago saying that there was a, it was a conversation about Trump and you know, I was bringing up the Muslim ban and they were telling how racist it was and all the rest of this and that there's no, you know, Muslim terrorism. And I said, yes, there is. Like you have Muslim grooming gangs from Pakistani men raping white girls in Northern England. The host of the show, the BBC show, they kicked me off the air, said it wasn't happening, that what I said wasn't true, and then apologized to the audience that I had offended listeners for what I had said. I was almost 10 years ago. Well, Baroness Louise Casey has released a 200 page report and found that the Mirpuri Pakistanis from the Kashmir providence were extremely well overrepresented in all data responsible for grooming gangs in the uk. You might think this is one little area of Pakistan. You know, how many people could it be? There are about 1 million Mapori Pakistanis living in the UK. It is the biggest predominant group that come to the UK from Pakistan. Now, in many of the cases, the ethnicity of the perpetrator was never taken because officials feared that they will be labeled as racist. But in areas that it was taken in 323 cases known as Operation Stove Wood, 62% of all groomers were Pakistani, despite the fact that they make up only 3% of the population. Yvette Cooper, the Home Secretary, basically, our version of DHS put out a list of recommendations. It includes ensuring adults who engage in penetrative sex with children under 16 face the most serious charge of rape instead of lesser charges. They're going to launch a new national criminal operation to oversee the National Crime Agency and tackle grooming gangs. They're going to review the criminal convictions of child sexual exploitation and washing any convictions where the government finds that the victims were criminalized rather than being protected. They're going to make a collection of ethnicity and national data for all suspects of child abuse. They're going to commission research into driven into drivers for group based child sexual exploitation, including the role of social media and cultural factors. And they're going to bring a more rigorous standard for the licensing and regulation of taxi drivers because many of these Pakistani men were taxi drivers luring young girls into their taxis, saying, do you want to come have alcohol or you know, drugs? Which in many poor areas of northern England was very enticing to 14 year old girls that have alcohol. Remember, the drinking ages are a lot lower and the culture on drinking is a lot more open. They would say yes, they would drug them, get them drunk, then drug them and then rape them in a group activity. Okay, some of these ideas are very good and I'm going to give credit to the labor government on at least going this far considering they've been completely opposed to it for decades. Certainly since my comments came out in 2010, they've been notoriously against. Not that because of this may just because they have been against it for years, but what the UK government needs to do is repeal most or parts of the equality act of 2010. This was a law passed by the previous labor government from years ago and it prohibits discrimination based on protected characteristics, including race in employment and service delivery. Police officers as public servants are subject to this law and discriminatory behavior can be deemed as gross misconduct. So police officers were purposely not investigating cases of child rape, child sexual exploitation, when the victim was going with biological evidence, in some cases saying, you can look at me, I have been raped multiple times. They refused to do it because if the grooming gang said this police officer is clearly racist, there would be overwhelming push to have that police officer dismissed from their jobs and that they are the problem, not that the criminals were the problem. And this law is the linchpin behind which all of these police officers were enabled to really do their job in a profound way. You know, J.K. rowling was tweeting like, we need to change the culture of protecting girls. Yes, but you need to undo the law, you crazy liberal. Like, that is what it is. I know, like, the idea of the Equality act sounds wonderful, but the law is creating all these circumstances. And one last thing. Maybe don't bring in a million people from a culture that views women as lesser than. Maybe don't bring in a million people from a culture that thinks child's sexual activities perfectly normal. That women can be beat. That, you know, you could have that women are like, you know, furniture or animals. That is the problem. You are importing a culture that for many people, especially when it is ghettoized because you're bringing in so many people, they, they push. They bring that culture with them. They bring that culture the UK and they view a lot of things like, this is a prize is to sit there and rape a young British woman. So good for the UK government for doing something. But it is outrageous. It took this long. And hopefully if there is someone in the entire UK government left with a brain from either the Reform or the Tory party, they will talk about repealing the Equalities act, if they haven't already. I don't. Maybe they did, but I don't think they did. Okay, that's your number is is for this podcast on the political side. Now I want to get to a passion interest of mine, which is true crime. I know there's a million podcasts on true crime and books and whatever, and we'll get back to politics on Monday. This is not gonna become a true crime podcast, but this episode is special. I am a true crime junkie. I have listened to podcasts, I've read books like A Stranger Beside Me, which is one of my favorite documentaries. You name it. Like, if I'm up at 2:00 in the morning, I'm researching who killed JonBenet Ramsey. This is who I am. It is a sickness. It is a mental illness. I understand it. But I love true crime. So the most talked about trial of the year just ended and it is the Karen Reed trial and it's about the death of John o' Keefe. So most of you have probably maybe heard about this trial or parts of it. I want to just give you the brief facts before going into the interview because it is interesting. On the night of January 28, 2022, Karen Reed and John O' Keefe, who were dating John Okie's a 46 year old Boston police officer where they were out drinking with friends in Canton, Massachusetts, about 20 miles south of Boston. After visiting bars, they were invited to an after party at the home of Brian Albert, another Boston police officer. There was a terrible snowstorm outside, but they, but John insisted on going this after partying. So they drove to the house. Allegedly there was, they saw no lights on in the house. John o' Keefe got out of the car, went to the house around 12:30am to see if there were people inside. According to prosecutors, this is when allegedly Karen Reed, who was intoxicated and angry at him, backed up into him hitting him and leaving him to die in the snow. John O' Keefe's body was discovered at 6am I think he might have been alive, but he was pronounced dead shortly afterwards. Karen Reed was arrested on February 1, 2022 and charged with second degree murder, manslaughter while operating under the influence of alcohol and leaving the scene of a collision causing injury or death. She pleaded not guilty to all charges. Her defense team insisted that this was actually a cover up, insinuating that the police were actually at fault for his death. Witnesses said that Karen came, she did come back to the scene of crime a few hours later, I guess when she had sobered up. And they said that she said that she had hit him and she had left the scene and left him to die. And when she had left the scene at 12:30, she did leave him a lot of angry voicemails because he did not come back to see, to say like oh, you can come in or I'm good or whatever. So Reed's defense team, Karen Reed's defense team led by attorney David Yannetti and Alan Jackson. They argue that o' Keefe was killed inside the Albert's home, possibly beaten and attacked by a dog and dumped outside with Reed being framed as the COVID up for the crime. Their theory was that o' Keefe got out of the car when inside the house. A fight ensued with someone inside the house, either Brian Albert or his brother Colin Albert or Brian Higgins, a federal agent who was also the party. Someone fought with him is the point. They pointed to o' Keefe's arm injuries though the defense did saying that saying because of a witness, an expert witness, Dr. Marie Russell. They suggested that his injuries were not with a car, but they were with dog bites. And the family inside the house had a dog at the time. They had a German shepherd. They said these dog bites at the home were, were showing that there must have been a fight and the dog got involved, which a German shepherd would if their owner was fighting. Incidentally, between the time of the attack and the trial, the very first trial of Karen Reed, the dog was rehomed in that time. So they could never do a investigation where they looked into the dog. A lot of things that were inside that house allegedly went missing or destroyed. There were outside videotapes from across the street that never showed up. There was phones that were destroyed afterwards. At 2:27am Jennifer McCabe, who is married to Mr. McCabe, she looked in her Google searches on her phone as a long to die in cold, suggesting that there was some foreknowledge of, of Mr. O' Keefe's condition, of John O' Keeffe's condition before the body was found. McCabe claimed that it was searched at 6am, 6.20am when Karen was there at the house looking for him. But it was, it was 2:27am they also said that there was key evidence, the key evidence of the whole trial was this broken tail light that Karen Reid's car allegedly had this broken taillight that found at the scene, but it was found days later underneath all the snow. They, they claimed, the defense claimed it was actually planted there and it was not, it wasn't like that she hit him, broke the taillight and then fled. That, that actually was planted there a few days later by people within that Canton PD, Boston PD universe trying to protect, you know, the McCabes. Well, on Wednesday, June 18, after four days of deliberation in the second trial, the first trial was on jury. In the second trial, the jury acquitted Karen Reed of all major charges, finding her only guilty of driving under the influence, which basically, I mean, Karen did say she was drinking right beforehand. So it's not shocking. But all the major things, the murder in the second degree, fleeing the scene of a crime, all of it, she was declared that she was not guilty. This case has deeply divided communities across the country who feel that Reeb was either innocent and wrongfully framed by a power hungry and co opted corrupt police department or that they felt she murdered her boyfriend and that, that she was a cold hearted crazy woman. And then there are other people who feel like she was overcharged, maybe she hit him, but it should have been a manslaughter charge and not, not homicide in the second degree. Remember the prosecution, they didn't just say, oh, they probably hit her. They went for the full jugular, they went for the full, she intentionally hit him. It wasn't an accident. She meant to hit him. She did hit him and then she fled in her drunken state. That's what they accused her of. It's a very, very severe charge. In the middle of this whole trial, Carrion Reed became this lightning rod of controversy and one man was behind the entire groundswell grassroots effort to free her. And his name is Aiden Carney, otherwise known as Turtle Boy. Aiden also has become a lightning rod of controversy. He was charged with witness tampering, or sorry, witness intimidation rather. He said, he said that was an effort to smear him. He's fighting those charges. But hate him or love him, he created a widespread effort to free Cameron Reid and he was successful in doing that. He created a movement from people all over that region and all over the country. They responded to what he was doing. He is coming on this podcast next. The first time after the Karen Reid trial. He's going to give a full interview. I'm so excited. Please stay tuned and we'll be back with Turtle Boy.

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With me on today's podcast is Aiden Cardney. He is otherwise known as Turtle Boy. Thank you so much for coming on, Aiden. My first question to you is how did you first hear about Karen's story and what made you throw yourself fully into it? Like it's been a big part of your life last few years.

[Aiden Carney]

Yeah, so I, you know, was in the news when John first died. I typically write about stories like that when, especially when police are killed. It's, you know, content people are interested in death of a police officer. When I saw that it appeared to be an accident though, it just wasn't a very interesting story, quite frankly. It means it was a tragic story. But then a year and a half later when court filings started coming out and you started reading more and more about this and it turned out that I was sitting on the story of the century, I realized that this deserved a much deeper dive When I realized that, wait a minute. A Boston police officer at his house apparently killed another Boston police officer with an ATF agent and other people and they covered it up after the fact and the state police assisted them in that. Like I'm sitting on the story of the century here. And you know, I just started writing about it and here we are so.

[Brian Graduski]

You know, at the center of this case. As you said, it is a real tragedy. I mean, John o' Keefe is dead and his family, his friends miss him terribly. Karen is a lightning rod, right? Either she is a victim of the biggest cover up by the state and local police or she's a crazy jilted woman who did this either intentionally or by an accent. What made people's intensity that drew her towards her so heavy like this? Why did. I mean, there's a lot of cases of people who are accused of crimes, but something about Karen made her people appeal to her. Do you have an opinion about that?

[Aiden Carney]

Yeah, because she's so transparently innocent. I mean, that's the draw of this. It's just so obvious. I don't defend people who are charged with murdering police. I'm usually on the other side of that issue. Usually I'm very pro police and I still am. And I've done a lot of articles exposing the opposite of this. The weakness of our court system that allows cop killers to, to be free in the first place. Every. The profile of a cop killer is always the same. It's somebody with like 125 priors almost always. And so this didn't fit that description. So like for me to go out and defend somebody who was accused of murdering a copy, you better believe there's going to be overwhelming evidence to back that up. I never would have jumped into this otherwise. It's just so obvious. The amount of evidence that she had in her legal team ad showing that not only was she factually innocent, but that other people were involved in murdering him made me realize, oh, this is. I have to get involved here. I have to do something. I have to write about this. And you know, the story had been going on for about a year and a half, but it wasn't getting any media coverage. And that's what I'm good at. You know, I've had, I've been doing what I do now for over a decade and I just started writing about it and I had a pretty large platform and it just grew and grew and grew from there.

[Brian Graduski]

When you think back to the trial, obviously, I mean she was up against like A Goliath. Right. I mean, at the very beginning, there was. It did not. I mean, I watched the documentaries of. She was really up against it, and her legal defense was like, it was literally David and Goliath, how they turn the corner. Looking back, when did you think to yourself, they're going to find her innocent? Like, they've done enough at this point where the defense has actually done their job. Like, was there a point or did you always think like, she was going to be found innocent? There's no question.

[Aiden Carney]

Oh, I always felt she was going to be found innocent. No question. Until I. I did. After the first trial. After the first trial ended in a mistrial, I was convinced they were going to deliberate for about five seconds. And because it was just so obvious that she was innocent and these people are all so shady and they're all lying, it was just like, okay, obviously they're going to acquit her. And then when they didn't and they came back hung, I did what's called a journalism. I went and found jurors. The jurilist was impounded, so you couldn't just find these people on their own. But I asked around, I got names, I got emails, and I started reaching out to them, and I got this guy Ronnie to come on. And Ronnie, as painful as it is to listen to him and his explanation of what was happening in that jury room, even though it's insanity, the things that they were talking about, it was still really important to hear because he was basically. What he said was, we didn't pay any attention to the conspiracy. We thought that was a distractor. We were focused on the data, the texturing data from the car, the fact that she was the one that dropped them off there, that she was drunk, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that enabled Carol Reed's defense team to readjust My interview with Ronnie, enabled the Carol Reid team to readjust their strategy and focus less on the conspiracy. You didn't get that much in the second trial. And more on, John wasn't hit by a car. There was no collision. If there was no collision, then Kyrie didn't do it. And it's not their job to figure out who did, quite frankly.

[Brian Graduski]

Right.

[Aiden Carney]

And they blew that.

[Brian Graduski]

So do you. So, like, they didn't think about the dog bites or anything like the dog bite. They thought that that was a distraction.

[Aiden Carney]

Yeah, that's like one of the things that Ronnie told me that, like, the dog thing was a distraction, that these are all big distractions to take away from the fact that she Ran him over with the car. I mean, it was. It was painful to interview him, but as. As painful as that was, like, that's journalism. That's finding out from these people who were in the room, what happened? What did you guys discuss? And no one else had that scoop.

[Brian Graduski]

Wow, that's crazy. I didn't. Okay. I missed that story that they thought that all of this was. Was so. They thought that even the. What about the text messages from the cop talking about how she was. How she looked, and were there any nudes or. They thought that was a. They thought that was a distraction.

[Aiden Carney]

Their basic takeaway with that was, yeah, he's a scumbag. He's not a good person. But it doesn't change the fact that she hit him with the car. Like, that was their takeaway. And that he got carried away because he was so upset with this woman for killing John o' Keefe that it was almost, like, understandable that he would vent like this on his private cell phone.

[Brian Graduski]

What about. What about the. Okay, so I'm not from Boston. I'm from New York. But I do have relatives from Lynn, Massachusetts. Lin. Lynn, the city of. What is the feeling about. But you hear people from that area talk about that the police are corrupt. Why is that feeling palpable in that area?

[Aiden Carney]

You know, I mean, just look at how easy this was. I mean, the issue wasn't just. We all know Michael Proctor was a corrupt scumbag who's been fired, right? But the issue is that Michael Proctor was protected, that Michael Proctor knew the McAlbert McCabes and the Alberts prior to this. He lied about it. He was so obviously lying on reports or whatever. And, you know, I used to be a high school teacher. If another teacher was inappropriate with a student, we wouldn't back them up. The union would sell you down the river. Like, no one would have your back if you. If you behaved inappropriately like that. But with police, it's different. It's like, no matter what, they're gonna have your back. They just. And I understand it. I understand that, like, in 2020, with the black Lives Matter riots or whatever, it was like, us against the world mentality. They're attacking us. We gotta stick together. And that mentality, because of that, they do stick together to a fault. You know, To a fault. Like, I support the police, but not corrupt police and not. And not the police in this situation. And, you know, I do talk to a lot of cops about this who are like, you know, they completely agree with me that Karen Reid was Framed that she didn't do it. But they remain silent.

[Brian Graduski]

What is. Okay, so that you became a lightning rod as well, which is very rare for somebody who started. I mean, you did start a movement. I don't know if Karen would have had what she had without you, like her, her conviction without you. You really did change the course of this woman's life and this case, but you became a lightning rod. Is there anything that happened during the course of this trial that you personally regret on your part? Or that. Because that got very heated. I read some of the things that people were saying about each other. Is there anything you feel like maybe I went over the line or maybe I didn't go overline enough or anything?

[Aiden Carney]

Well, you know, I went to jail. I was arrested and, and charged and charged with God knows how many counts of felony witness intimidation. But it, the things that I did to get charged with that are not criminal. They're only criminal in Massachusetts if it's. If they interpret the law a certain way. Like for instance, I went up to Jennifer McCabe at her kids lacrosse game, right? Because it's the only place I could find her. I knew her kid was playing lacrosse that day, so I went to her game in Billerica and I took my camera out and went up to her and I said, Jennifer, why did you Google how long to die in cold? Why did you do that at 227? Why'd you do that? And it turned into a scene and Matt McCabe pushed me and it, you know, I got, I left the stadium on my own accord and I got charged with two counts of felony witness intimidation for that. That's what used to be called journalism. Like going up to people, asking them the tough questions, getting in their face, not taking no for an answer. But in Massachusetts, our statute, the witness intimidation statute says that you cannot cause emotional, physical or financial harm to witnesses. Every other state, it's physical. I understand the need to say that. You can't threaten to break someone's legs if they don't, you know, do say what you want to say. Understand, I get that. But the emotional aspect of this, every single person I've been charged with intimidating claims that I caused them emotional harm, that I made them sad. This is literally what they told the grand jury. He made me sad. I can't eat. Everybody thinks I'm a killer now, blah, blah, blah. He made me uncomfortable. I was embarrassed and this and that. Not a single. I haven't caused a single cut, a scrape, a bruise, nothing to anybody. I don't threaten people. I'm a reporter. I'm an activist. I'm not a tough guy. So. And if you see Brian Albert, Brian Albert could eat me for lunch. You know, 8, 170 pounds. Brian Albert's like 250, you know, 6 foot 2, 250. He's a big boy. He's a Marine. He could. He could destroy me if he wanted to. So this idea that I'm intimidating these people is ridiculous. So to answer your question, I wouldn't change anything. I mean, I wish I wasn't arrested. I wish that didn't happen, but it did. And I contend that I did nothing wrong.

[Brian Graduski]

Well, I Wish I was 170. Good for you. I. All right. This is the question on everyone's mind, and I have to ask you this. What do you think happened to John o' Keefe?

[Aiden Carney]

I think he went inside that house after Karen Reed dropped him off. He was supposed to text her back and say, everything's cool here. You can go home, and I'm all set. But I think he went in that house and a confrontation happened. We don't know with who. There's many possible suspects. There's Brian Higgins, who had the motive to do it because he was half an hour earlier, flirting, sending flirtatious text messages to his girlfriend. There is Colin Albert, who is a. A punk who gets in a lot of fights, who had issues with John. They were neighbors. He threw beer cans on his lawn, disrespected him, and they were all drunk. And so what I think is he went in there, words were exchanged, punches were thrown, and I think an accident happened. I think Jon fell backwards during this fight after the dog bit him. Because, you know, if Brian Albert's involved in the fight, the dog's gonna back him up. I mean, that's Brian Albert, the German shepherd.

[Brian Graduski]

That's what they're.

[Aiden Carney]

It's like their instinct. And I think it dragged him down, and I think he hit his head on a stair, and I think it caused the 3 inch laceration in the back of his head. And I think it knocked him out and it made him unconscious. And he was immediately incapacitated. According to every doctor who testified at that trial, that's what killed John. The blunt impact to the back of the head. And so I think that they realized he was probably convulsing puke on his boxer shorts. And I think they realized we have a dying Boston cop in our house. This is really bad. What are we gonna do? And the plan was simple. I mean, people act like this Is so complicated. Just tell him the guy never came in the house. He never came in the house.

[Brian Graduski]

Just.

[Aiden Carney]

We're gonna put him right outside where she, where we last saw her car. And then say, I don't, I don't know how. Jesus Christ, did she hit him? What happened? Oh my God. I mean, it's just, it's such a simple story. He never came in the house.

[Brian Graduski]

And the big question I think everyone wants to know is what else was in that house when they were there? Because yeah, usually you don't throw after parties at 12:30 in the morning just to have a few more beers and watch Finding Nemo.

[Aiden Carney]

You do if you're a functioning alcoholic like a lot of these people are. I mean these are, these are grown ass adults having after parties.

[Brian Graduski]

You're absolutely right.

[Aiden Carney]

It's a weird thing. I mean, that's why they didn't want to go in. She's a grown ass woman who was a financial analyst at Fidelity, you know, making a quarter million dollars a year. She doesn't go to after parties at 12:30, you know, on a weekday.

[Brian Graduski]

Right? On a weekday.

[Aiden Carney]

It was a Friday night.

[Brian Graduski]

It was a Friday night. Okay. Yeah, it was like a holiday or something like that was right, was right around the corner right after.

[Aiden Carney]

Well, it was, it was a blizzard was happening. So yeah, a lot of people were, you know, not going to work or whatever. So like. Yeah, so John, you know, that was a problem in their relationship is John liked to drink. John like to go out. And she was always stuck with the kids. And that, that's why she left all those nasty voicemails for him afterwards. She's like, I'm sick of you. You know, you're a fucking douchebag. I'm home with your kids again. What the. Those are the exact type of voicemails you leave to someone if you intend to see them again and chew them out. Like, that's not something you tell a dead person.

[Brian Graduski]

You know, there was, there was a, there was this one comedian who was very much on the side of Karen, but who said in all the doc, true crime documentaries, usually you leave a message like, can't wait to see you. Hope you're home soon. And then, you know, Peterson did that with Lacy.

[Aiden Carney]

That's the exact voicemail.

[Brian Graduski]

Yeah, that's. And then, and meanwhile you're cleaning out their bank accounts and you're moving their money around, but like you're leaving the messages like, I'm this innocent person. And she was at the scene again within I think three hours of her or four hours of him dropping him off or whatever the case is, looking for him. Usually. It's not the pattern of somebody that, as you say, you know, people who kill cops usually have a long history and a pattern to it.

[Aiden Carney]

Right.

[Brian Graduski]

What are you going to do now that the trial is over?

[Aiden Carney]

Well, I got. I'm gonna soak it all in and I'm starring in a documentary that they're doing about me with compelling pictures. We just announced that a major motion picture has been greenlit for this. I'm gonna be speaking at CrimeCon in September. I'm gonna be writing a book. And then I'm gonna be dealing with my own legal issues. Like, I still have my charges to deal with, a whole bunch of them. I'm facing like 120 years in prison when it's, you know, it's never gonna happen, but it theoretically could.

[Brian Graduski]

120 years in prison for what?

[Aiden Carney]

Each kind of felony, witness intimidation, carries a 10 year maximum sentence. If they wanted to, they could throw the book at me, you know, and these people are sick. We've seen what they've done to Karen Reed. My lawyers are not going to let that happen. I'm not going to let that happen. Obviously. I have two kids. They're seven and ten. They need me. And I'm not going to allow the state to take them away from me, period.

[Brian Graduski]

I know that she has a civil trial still. Do they just start from scratch now looking for John o' Keefe's killer.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Brian Graduski]

Or do you think it'd be like a cold case forever?

[Aiden Carney]

They've already issued a statement saying that, like, this is a shame. John deserved justice. McAlberts have already issued a statement, too. And. And I'm sure that's all that. They're going to treat her like OJ or like Casey Anthony and just say she got away with it. And that's the excuse not to go after the people who actually did this. But they know, like, Cameron Reed is gonna. Karen Reed can go out anywhere in this state, in this country, really, and be welcomed. And any restaurant in Boston she goes out to tonight, her meal is free. You know, she's basically a quasi celebrity, unintentionally. Right. The McAlberts can't do that. McAlberts go places and they get booed and they look at. They have to look around and say, who knows what we did? Like, who here doesn't like us? So that's the karma that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

[Brian Graduski]

Okay, last question. Where can People go to read more about what you're doing. Where can they follow your cases and your book and your movie and your speeches? You've got a busier schedule Me. So where can people go to continue to follow? Yeah, I mean, Turtle Boy is so weird to say. Turtle Boy, you're. You're a grown man. But like What? Like what?

[Aiden Carney]

Dr. Turtle Boys.

[Brian Graduski]

Dr. Turtle. You know, where people go to keep following.

[Aiden Carney]

Until Biden's a doctor, then so am I. That's what. That's why I started calling myself. That's my Twitter handle is at Dr. Turtle Boy. D O C T O R Turtle Boy. You can. My website is tb, as in turtleboy daily news.com and you can see me on YouTube turtle boy live channel.

[Brian Graduski]

All right, well, keep up with Turtle Boy because I guess there's a lot more coming out about the story and about you. And I appreciate you being here and giving me the interview.

[Aiden Carney]

My pleasure, Ryan. Have a good night.

[Brian Graduski]

Hey, we'll be right back after this.

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[Brian Graduski]

Now for the Ask me Anything segment of this podcast. I love getting these emails. Please keep sending them. Ask me any kind of question I could possibly answer. The email is ryanumbersgamepodcast.com ryanumbersgame podcast.com okay, first question from readers. Hi Ryan, what are your thoughts about the quality of polling coming out showing a dramatic swing in the favor of immigration enforcement and deportation among the wider American population and especially the Hispanic community? I see a lot of Twitter x posts on polls with comments like this poll was among the most accurate in 2024. However, I think that the kind of polling for a straightforward binary election is very different than polling on an issue in which respondents our positions are very nuanced. The data can be impacted by how the question is worded. That is 100% true. By the way, do these high quality poll 24 necessarily translate to how the polling issues are set and we're asking now. Also, you mentioned that you love following European politics. Do you follow TLDR news in the eu? Best regards. Love the podcast. Robert Diaz Arista I hope I'm pronouncing your last name correctly. But Robert, thank you so much for sending me an email. I don't follow tldr, but I will check them out at your suggestion. Thank you. Okay. On the polling, so yes, it is a lot based on how the question is asked, but I think when you're asking in such generalities, when they're not asking specifically, do you want to do this policy or do you that policy? And there's full nuanced connection. First of all, in polling there's something called a leading question, right? If I sit there and say Tom, Dick and Harry are all child molesters, would you want them to live at your house next to your house with your four year old child? That's a leading question, right? You're not. You're giving the information ahead of time to affect the answer that you want. So pay attention to that when the questions are being asked to have an informed poll. The question of immigration in the broad terms, right, is more specific to the time that we live in, in the moment that we live in than in the, than in like the actual policy of how people are carrying it out, right? Because the polling around immigration enforcement and immigration reduct specifically was mounting before even the midterms of 2022. Like that number was changing well before that even even started changing. Like really during COVID where people felt that they felt threatened by a lot of changes. Some of it was legitimate, some of it was not legitimate, but that is started that change. I want to take you back in time for a second. If you look at the Gallup polling, which goes back to 1965, that's the year that LBJ fundamentally altered the legal immigration. A plurality of Americans wanted the system to stay as is. And what that tells me is that they never really thought about immigration because it wasn't that big of a deal. There weren't that many immigrants coming to our country between 1928 and 1965. We had a basic immigration moratorium for 40 years. Then illegal immigration after 1965 starts ticking up and there is a demographic change of who's coming to our country before 1965, the immigrants had to reflect the current population. So because the immigration was mostly Western Europe, all immigrants were mostly Western Europe. We weren't bringing in Africans and Chinese and all the rest of them, right? So the number starts ticking up of people who want lower levels of immigration. As both demographics change, because mass change in demographics is oftentimes correlated with a declining social trust. And as illegal immigration changes, then it all comes together in 1986. Reagan does his amnesty and 65% of Americans at that point want legal immigration reduced. Any legal immigration stopped. It's a mood in the country that stayed with the majority for over a decade, throughout Clinton's entire presidency. Now, when Clinton was president, over a million illegal aliens were coming to our country every year. They were pouring through. In the mid-90s, Clinton works with Congressman Barbara Jordan and the Republicans in Congress to create a bunch of immigration enforcement. The numbers start ticking down as far as illegal immigration comes in. And then by like the late 90s, the number of people saying they want immigration reduced falls from a majority for the first time since the 80s, right, for over a decade. And then what happens 9 11. Obviously that would cause people to say, we need to bring things in home, we need to stop, you know, what we're doing as far as immigration. We need to focus on us. The percentage of people who want immigration reduced spikes to 58% after 9 11. That dwindles over time. There's no more terrorist attacks. And terrorism becomes in people's minds what they're thinking about when they're thinking about people coming to our country right after 9 11, justifiably so. That's what you would think of when you're thinking of safety and threats from the outside of the country. So that stays a plurality until 2019. That's the third year of the Trump presidency and is the very first time and only time on record that a plurality of Americans actually favor more legal immigration than less legal immigration. Because during that time, the beginning of the great awokening, when liberals proudly became woke and hating Trump was their ideology and their religion. To want more immigrants was to show that you hate Trump. So the number of liberals who traditionally had a lot of them wanting to say we want less immigration plummets. They all want mass more immigration. And it hits 32% in 2019. Wanting more legal immigration. Then Joe Biden becomes president, the floodgates open and the number of people who want less immigration is hits its highest point since 911 at 55%. And that was in June 2024. So yes, the quality of this polls matter. But what I look for when I look at these kinds of issues like abortion, gay marriage, you know, let's take gay marriage for example. A number of polls, polls from Pew Research to, you know, I don't know, I think it was morning consult, whatever morning console is a pretty low level poll, but they have all show that there is a downtick in the number of Americans who support gay Marriage. If it was just one poll, I would say it's an, it's. They must ask the question weird or whatever, but is a genuine change, especially among younger conservative people who, I think, I honestly believe it's a transgender issue, which is turning them away from gay marriage. But that is a real thing that's really happening as far as how we feel as a country. The immigration story has ticked up significantly, especially because of how Joe Biden governed this country. So, yeah, I wouldn't be so obsessed with this one. Was this poll the most accurate or this one's the least accurate or whatever? Look at the overarching story. Cato Institute did a poll And I think 2022 and Cato, I mean, they would turn our country into Uganda if they could. They did a poll showing 65 or 68% of Americans wanted immigration reduced. That was legal immigration reduced because we take in 1.2 million per year. And it's a mass demographic change. Even when I was a kid, you know, I'm, I'm middle aged now at 38, but I'm not 78. You know what I mean? It was not like I'm like, you know, sitting there saying back in my day, although I do say that all the time to, to my Zoomer employees. Anyway, that's what I, that's what I have to say about it. The overarching narrative from all these polls are saying the same thing or around most of these polls, and that is the bigger thing than whether or not one or two polls are saying they're insane. Don't worry about the accuracy of that versus, like the horse race that matters with the horse race issue, when it comes to the overall question, if they're all saying the same thing or most are saying this one trajectory over time, and it's building, and it's building, it's building. It's probably accurate and politicians should look at that. As I've said in this whole entire rant, a majority of Americans for most of my lifetime, since 1987, even predating that 1986, have wanted lower levels of legal immigration. And all our politicians have done is increase legal immigration. Had they actually in the 80s or 90s, reduce legal immigration and the fear of mass immigration demographically changing our country wasn't present. And had they not done the Iraq war and the World Trade Organization with China and opening China, those little three things, Donald Trump would probably never have been president because the issues he ran on would have never been issues, but they were sold on neoliberalism, full tilt Boogie. And that's why they got the man that they hate the most. Anyway, I hope that makes sense. Okay. But thank you for your email. I love them. Please send them. Our next and last question for the day comes from Wade to Bosch. How do you feel about quote unquote abundance and point based immigration? Please interview Tristan Hopper. I don't know who Tristan Hopper is. I will look him up and maybe interview him if he's not crazy. Okay, maybe he's related to Dennis Hopper. That'd be great if we could talk about his movies for a whole segment. Okay. The Abundance. I think he's talking about this book by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson. Abundance is like the stupidest slogan for politics that of course only people who don't actually work in politics, they just write about it would think of. It talks about how the need to re regulate everything from like housing to energy to have a prosperous society. And it's mostly a letter to liberals about how like you can win people back by saying, you know, we're going to make things affordable by just building everywhere. That was my read of it anyway. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I don't think I am the it was. You could clearly tell. One, it's written by people who don't work in politics because I think abundance is a very stupid phrase. It's not. It's not. I don't think it's interesting. I don't think it's a tagline people are going to rally around. And secondly, it's a. You could tell it's written by people who have never truly loved a place. Right. I love the neighborhood I grew up in. I really, really love it. I know every street. I could read them like the back of my hand. I spent most of my life there as of now. And I don't want, I don't want mass housing there. It's mostly one and two family homes and makes a community. I know that. I know the people. I know I don't need a train station in there. I'm good. Like we can make things a little better, we can improve on the margins. But I love it and I don't want to see it become something completely different for the sake of wealthy yuppies moving there or foreigners moving there. I. And when you love someplace, preserving it becomes as important as. As making it affordable. Right? Making it affordable while preserving certain characteristics that keep a community together. My other problem with it is they approach the issue of affordability from a demand issue and not from us. Sorry, from a supply Issue, not a demand issue. Yes. Laguna Beach, California, beautiful beach community, has a demand problem, right? I'm sorry, a supply problem. They only have so many homes to keep it this way, so why not just shove apartment buildings everywhere and everyone could live there. The question is not so much just the supply as the demand. The demand for energy, the demand for housing, the demand for space would not be so large if we did not bring in 1.2 million people in this country every year legally. That's just the fact there's only so much room. There's only so much space. And the more credit people, people's spaces, the less inclined they are to have their own children or to afford their own home or to grow up. All these things feed into each other. So it's a very neoliberal idea. It's like saying, like, why don't we just open up China to the world's economy and then they'll want to be the democracies just like we are. It's, it's, it shows no foresight into the future of problems that that would create. Do you want to live in a box just because you can get a nice view? Maybe you will. I don't think that that's true for a lot of people. I think they want to own something that they can live in, and I think they want to be part of a community if they can. They're all looking for this authenticity that they feel like they belong somewhere. And it's hard when you live in a crowded little cramped space. I don't think that they want to live like in, in parts of China that people like, literally live in a cubicle. I just don't, I just don't see it. And I don't think that that abundance argument works. I don't think it's compelling, and I think it's a bad political tagline anyway. Okay, and the points based system on immigration, I generally favor it, but I want overall immigration numbers reduced. I would like a moratorium for a period of time and then overall numbers reduced to, you know, 1 to 200,000 a year, which are historical numbers based on a point system. Immigrants should be better than us. They shouldn't be worse or as good. We should want the best and the brightest of the world, the cream of the world, not your average Joe. And I know that could bring up a lot of hurt feelings, but that is what I want. We should always pursue immigrants who are better than the norm, not at or below the norm. So that's why I'm supportive of a point based system but I want overall immigration numbers reduced. You cannot have a 21st century economy with a 20th century immigration policy. Okay, that's my rant for today. We will be back on Monday. I appreciate you. I hope you like this little true crime episode. It's definitely different. Please like and subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening. You can listen the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast wherever you get your podcast. I'll be back next week. I hope you will too. Thanks. Clorox CVA smells like lavender.

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