Podcast Summary: "It's a Numbers Game: The Numbers Behind Conservatism’s Crossroads: Trump, Tradition, and the Future of the Right"

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show (iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Ryan Girdusky (guest-hosting)
Guest: Daniel McCarthy (Editor, Modern Age Journal)
Date: December 1, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the internal struggles facing modern American conservatism as the "Trump era" nears its end. Host Ryan Girdusky and guest Daniel McCarthy scrutinize the so-called "Republican civil war," the evolving nature of right-wing identity, the surfacing of anti-Semitism, the lessons from past conservative infighting (notably post-Reagan), and what the future might hold for the conservative movement as it wrestles with populism, tradition, and modern ideological divisions. The conversation is thoughtful, reflective, and at times cautionary—urging young conservatives to consider historical context, personal responsibility, and the broader consequences of the movement’s direction.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Reflections on the State of Conservatism ([02:13] - [12:13])

• Host’s Self-Reflection:
  Ryan starts with personal musings about ambition, time, and end-of-year reflection—sharing how he tracks yearly goals and the importance of priorities evolving.
• On Conservative Infighting:
  He self-identifies as a minor conservative influencer and stresses his conscious decision to avoid the fray in right-wing "civil wars"—preferring to focus on substance over endless personality spats.
• Trump's Imminent Exit and GOP's Future:
  Ryan summarizes a recurring concern among conservatives: "Trump isn't going to be around forever. Where is this party going? Who's going to lead us? What do we believe in?" ([05:23])

2. The Problem of Grievance, the Gravy Train, and the Lure of Negativity ([07:00] - [12:13])

• Media Profiteering:
  He warns that some right-wing commentators exploit Trump-related anxiety for personal profit, often at the cost of constructive discussion.
• Rise of Reactionary Discourse:
  Concern rises over the cynical exploitation of anti-Semitism, with "some commentators... [using] this kind of open question of who we are... to say some genuinely anti-Semitic points."
  He explicitly distinguishes legitimate criticism of Israel and American policy from outright anti-Semitism.
• Detracting from Real Issues:
  Ryan laments that important topics (AI, family formation, economic future) are being crowded out by endless World War II and Holocaust discourse, which he calls, “frankly, stupid… There's no useful reason… no foresight…" ([10:30])

3. A Warning to Young Right-Wingers ([11:35] - [14:00])

• Ryan directly addresses young white conservative men who feel under threat from demographic and cultural shifts and reminds them that idolizing Hitler or flirting with Nazi apologism is both wrong and self-destructive:
  • “You do not need to look up to anyone who praises Hitler. You don't need to have a private conversation about it. You don't need to joke about it. You're not being edgy, you're not being funny.” ([11:56])
  • “Hitler was such a piece of shit person... You shouldn't praise the man… who caused a war that killed 50 million Europeans…” ([12:44])

4. Conservatism’s Crossroads: Infighting is Nothing New ([14:00] - [16:55])

• Ryan:
  Though the conservative split feels existential, he encourages perspective: "What you're seeing is completely healthy. And it's been done before… This is not new."
  The episode sets up an exploration of the 1990s conservative rift after Reagan, as a parallel to today.

Deep Dive Interview: Daniel McCarthy on Right-Wing History and the Culture War ([19:40] - [43:50])

1. Lessons from Past Right-Wing Civil Wars ([19:54] - [25:20])

• Daniel McCarthy:
  Explains how William F. Buckley and conservative leaders post-Cold War faced similar schisms around foreign policy, immigration, and the definition of "acceptable" conservatism.
  • “Buckley is being sort of pulled in two directions by the neocons… and by basically every other conservative…” ([23:30])
  • The myth of Buckley as ultimate right-wing gatekeeper is exaggerated; he often sought middle ground, pleasing neither faction.

2. Vacuums of Leadership & Policy Successes Turned Liabilities ([26:49] - [29:28])

• After Reagan’s successes, conservatives faced the loss of both “hero and enemy,” setting up a void much like the one now emerging post-Trump.
• McCarthy:
  “The neocons wind up being very successful... they win everything. And yet then they have to live up to what they've promised. When America sees the results... voters say, this is awful. This is not what we want.” ([28:13])

3. The Modern Surge of Online Reactionaries and "Groiperism" ([29:28] - [34:52])

• The current anti-Semitic and anti-establishment fringe (Groipers, Fuentes, etc.) are a product in part of right-wing overcompensation and a constant defensive posture against leftist accusations.
• McCarthy:
  “The right... is trying to prove that it doesn't have all the bad qualities the left accuses it of. So it’s going out of its way to show, ‘We're not racist… We're the most anti-anti-Semitic people on the planet’... This is just the right overplaying its hand... And that whole thing is a dead end.” ([31:38])
• The current moment requires new strategies; the “Mark Levins of the world” are out of touch with the digital age and the nature of today’s critiques.

4. The Victim-Oppressor Narrative, Israel, and the West's Identity Crisis ([34:52] - [39:36])

• McCarthy views progressive liberalism as having secularized religious universalism into a global “victim vs. oppressor” paradigm.
• On Israel:
  “The fact that Israel is based on a people staking a claim to a land… and basically, we might like liberalism or democracy up to a point, but if those things ever come into conflict with our possession of our land, we will reject those things. And that's what makes Israel a very important country right now.” ([38:38])
• Argues that if Americans (and conservatives) lose confidence or moral authority in defending their own national identity in the face of progressive moral bullying, their movement is doomed.

5. Recommended Readings for Young Conservatives ([40:54] - [43:12])

• Daniel McCarthy’s List:

  1. Modern Age Journal - For long-term conservative thought and debates.
  2. Chronicles Magazine - Original paleo-conservative publication, now edited by Paul Gottfried.
  3. The American Conservative - Focus on foreign policy, including critical perspectives on Israel and Venezuela.
  • “Instead of... following the Groypers down to, you know, memes and just nonsense, you could actually ask yourself, well, why did Russell Kirk say that…?” ([41:09])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Ryan Girdusky:

  • “I want to be very clear right now that not every criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic… But when…commentators…speak about Jewish people in a dehumanizing way…that’s not a useful conversation.” ([08:35])
  • “You do not need to look up to anyone who praises Hitler. You don't need to have a private conversation about it. You don't need to joke about it. You're not being edgy, you're not being funny.” ([11:56])

• Daniel McCarthy:

  • “Success is sometimes its own punishment… The neocons succeed, but then they have to live with the punishment of that success, which is showing everyone what their record actually looks like…” ([28:13])

• On responding to anti-Semitism and internal culture wars:

  • McCarthy: “That whole thing is… not only a dead end, it's counterproductive because the more the center right tries to… play that card, the more ridiculous it looks in the eyes of younger people on the right.” ([32:33])

• On Conservatism’s Identity:

  • “If liberalism or other ideologies from the left are going to attack our position as a people who has possession of our land… we’re simply going to cut off our conversation. We’re not going to allow ourselves to be morally bullied by progressives.” ([39:09])

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |------------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:13 | Ryan's year-end reflections, personal priorities | | 05:23 | Trump's looming exit & the "Republican Civil War" | | 07:00 | Grifters and anti-Semitism in conservative media | | 10:30 | Futile focus on WWII/Holocaust vs. future challenges | | 11:35 | Address to young right-wing men; dangers of Nazi apologism | | 14:00 | Perspective on ongoing "civil war" in conservatism | | 19:40 | Interview intro: Daniel McCarthy | | 20:27 | Buckley’s era and 90s right-wing infighting | | 28:13 | Neocon success and unintended fallout | | 29:28 | Anti-Semitism, Groipers, and failed responses by old guard | | 34:52 | Israel as “test case” for the victim/oppressor narrative | | 40:54 | Daniel McCarthy’s reading recommendations | | 43:12 | Interview close-out; where to follow McCarthy |

Tone & Language Highlights

• Reflective, cautionary, at times blunt: Ryan's guidance to young conservatives is frank and direct, aiming to warn them away from destructive ideological trends.
• Historical and analytical: Daniel McCarthy brings deep context, referencing conservative intellectual history, nuanced takes on figures like Buckley, and the patterns of ideological crisis and renewal.
• No-nonsense, ironic humor: Both speakers highlight the absurdities of modern political posturing, especially when discussing the “edgelords” and social media culture among young activists.

Conclusion

This episode provides a wide-ranging and historically grounded analysis of the American conservative movement's ongoing identity struggle. Rather than demonize or eulogize any one faction, Ryan Girdusky and Daniel McCarthy urge listeners—especially young conservatives—to study history, resist performative outrage, reject cynicism and bigotry, and continue searching for enduring principles that can guide the right forward after Trump. The wisdom lies in understanding both the perils and promise of crisis and transition.

For further reading:

• Modern Age Journal
• Chronicles Magazine
• The American Conservative
• Daniel McCarthy’s Syndicated Columns