It's a Numbers Game: The Numbers Behind Data Centers, Green Energy Failures, and the Grid Crisis

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: It's a Numbers Game: The Numbers Behind Data Centers, Green Energy Failures, and the Grid Crisis
Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Ryan Graduski (filling for Clay Travis and Buck Sexton)
Guest: Daniel Turner, Founder and Executive Director of Power the Future

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the numbers and realities behind America's growing energy crisis, focusing on the massive energy demands of data centers, the failure of green energy policies to deliver on their promises, and the looming crisis for the nation’s power grid. Host Ryan Graduski explores recent polling about voter concerns, particularly around inflation and energy costs, and welcomes energy expert Daniel Turner to break down the impact of surging data center power use on consumers, food prices, and politics. The discussion is grounded in current events but looks toward the major political and economic battles brewing for the 2026 and 2028 elections.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dissecting Recent Polls on Public Opinion

• Low-Quality Polling:

  • Recent polls (SurveyMonkey for NBC News and YouGov for CBS) show Trump's approval struggles around inflation and the economy, but both are large-scale internet surveys with questionable accuracy.
  • Critique: SurveyMonkey polls have high error rates and don’t accurately represent likely voters ([03:30]).
  • "Poll is way too overrepresentative of people who don't vote, never will vote, don't really follow the news and kind of go on vibes" — Ryan Graduski ([05:27])
  • Kernels of Truth:
    • Americans’ top concerns are inflation, the economy, and cost of living, not media-driven controversies.
    • Trump’s push for AI and big tech is out of sync with a worried public—Polls reveal deep suspicion and anxiety about AI's job impact and data privacy.

• Notable Stats Highlighted:

  • 51% worried about AI (Pew), 75% believe AI will reduce jobs (Gallup), 61% think AI could threaten humanity (Reuters) ([09:32]).

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2. The Explosion of Data Centers and the Power Grid Crisis

• Energy Consumption Growth:

  • Data centers in the US used 4% of all electricity in 2023, projected to hit 12% by 2028 ([12:09]).
  • A single major data center can use up to 5 million gallons of water daily—"as much water as needed for a town of 50,000 people."
  • Electricity prices have risen faster than general inflation for three consecutive years; up 30% cumulatively since 2020.

• Ripple Effects:

  • AI/data centers contribute substantially to higher costs for grocery stores, food supply chains, and ordinary consumers, beyond fuel and tariffs.

  "The Walmart supercenter or the Costco or the Publix…are spending more to refrigerate them and are moving those prices onto you because we're all on the same power grid."** — Ryan Graduski ([15:50])

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3. Corporate Tax Breaks & Populist Backlash

• Taxpayers Subsidize Big Tech:

  • Tax breaks for projects like Meta's Louisiana data center, which will only partly absorb costs for 15 years before passing expenses to consumers ([16:55]).
  • "This is corporatism. This is corporate welfare at its finest." — Ryan Graduski ([16:55])
  • The few jobs created are typically only in construction; long-term data center operations need very few employees.

• Political Prediction:

  • Graduski predicts that surging energy costs, especially for the poor and elderly, will ignite the next major populist political fight—likely the central campaign issue for 2026 and 2028.

  "Wait until an elderly person or working class people have to choose between heating their homes this winter and paying their regular bills as data centers eat up more and more of our energy." — Ryan Graduski ([17:42])

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4. Expert Interview: Daniel Turner on Data Centers & Grid Vulnerabilities

Virginia as Ground Zero

• Virginia holds about one-third of all US data centers—these could consume up to 46% of all electricity produced in the state by 2030 ([21:23]).

• Recent utility bill increases in Virginia are 35-40% depending on the region, driven mostly by burgeoning data center demand.

  "The average data center is the equivalent energy consumer of 100,000 homes." — Daniel Turner ([22:10])

Minimal Job Creation

• Data center construction brings some short-term jobs, but operation needs only a skeleton staff—long-term economic benefits are overstated ([23:10]).

Direct Impact on Food & Daily Living Costs

• As data centers and food suppliers compete for ever-scarcer power, everyday costs rise everywhere ([24:44]).
• "When you make energy expensive, you make life expensive... Everything around us... requires energy. Anything grown, manufactured, transported, refrigerated, all of that requires energy." — Daniel Turner ([24:51])

Limits of the Power Grid

• The grid has fixed capacity; too much demand can trigger catastrophic collapse.
• Building new power generation (coal, gas, nuclear) is slow, but new data centers are popping up rapidly ([26:21]).

Failures of Green Energy Policy

• Billions spent on wind/solar generated unreliable results and higher consumer costs ([30:34]).

• ESG and green incentives rewarded corporations and politicians but hurt ordinary ratepayers.

  "The green movement has no wins under its belt except for these fake metrics of which every communist movement has these same fake metrics." — Daniel Turner ([32:24])

Water Use and Regional Drought Risk

• Data center water consumption is severe, particularly in drought-prone areas. "We added the equivalent of 23 million people when it comes to energy and water consumption in our state." — Daniel Turner ([35:03])

Red and Blue State Responsibility

• Both parties support data center growth and unreliable green policies; Texas cited as an example of bipartisan "green stupidity" ([32:59]).

Corporate Influence over Energy Policy

• Politicians often act in response to corporate demands or campaign donations, not public interest.

"No one opened up reactor two for the good of the people of Pennsylvania. They opened it because Microsoft asked for it to open." — Daniel Turner ([37:40])

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5. Political and Social Ramifications

• Populist political wave expected over energy costs; elderly and working-class communities most vulnerable.
• Data center and grid crises are under-discussed campaign issues, but likely to erupt by the next election cycles ([36:49]).

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6. Ask Me Anything Segment ([43:31])

Political Geography:

• Western New York is politically overlooked due to NYC's dominance in New York state politics.

Migration & Partisanship:

• People who move to new states rarely change their political leanings; internal migration rarely flips state politics.

GOP Social Issues & Religious Voters:

• Religious conservatives may be dissatisfied with the GOP drifting left on social issues, but the lack of alternatives and the extreme leftward shift of Democrats keeps them tethered to the party.

  "I think that the best thing you could do as a religious person is...the Republican party should be tolerant and try to leave people alone." — Ryan Graduski ([47:09])

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Notable Quotes

• On Data Center Growth:
  "The average data center is the equivalent energy consumer of 100,000 homes." — Daniel Turner ([22:10])

• On Corporate Welfare:
  "This is corporatism. This is corporate welfare at its finest." — Ryan Graduski ([16:55])

• On Green Energy Failures:
  "Find me any place in the world where [green energy] has worked...the more green you have, the more it has worked. [But actually,] your rates go through the roof." — Daniel Turner ([31:39])

• On Populist Energy Uprising:
  "Wait until an elderly person has to choose between heating their homes this winter and paying their regular bills as data centers eat up more and more of our energy. This is the next populist fight…" — Ryan Graduski ([17:42])

• On Political Inattention:
  "No one's talking about [the data center crisis]...it's not inconceivable that next winter there will be elderly people on fixed income who have to choose how to heat their homes if they can't afford the price of heat." — Ryan Graduski ([36:08])

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Key Timestamps

• 03:30 – Critique of recent political polling and what top worries really are for Americans
• 12:09 – How data centers’ energy use is surging; water and electricity implications
• 15:50 – Real impact of electricity cost increases on food and everyday expenses
• 16:55 – Big Tech's tax breaks and mention of Meta's Louisiana data center
• 21:23 – Intro to Daniel Turner; discussion of Virginia’s data center and energy challenges
• 22:10 – How data centers alone drive up power prices massively
• 24:44 – Link between energy costs, Trump’s political vulnerability, and delayed recovery from high utility prices
• 26:21 – Grid limitations and risk of catastrophic collapse
• 30:34 – How green energy incentive programs have failed to deliver affordability or reliability
• 32:59 – Bipartisan failures using Texas as an example
• 35:03 – Data center water use problems in drought-prone southern states
• 36:08 – Political relevance and why politicians aren’t talking about grid issues
• 37:40 – How Microsoft and others push energy infrastructure changes for their own benefit
• 43:31 – Ask Me Anything segment starts

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The episode is urgent and direct, mixing data-driven analysis with sharp, sometimes humorous, political commentary.
• Both host and guest are blunt in critiquing bipartisan failures on energy, corporatism, and the disconnect between political leadership and working Americans.
• The rise of data center power use is presented not just as an economic concern, but as a political powder keg ready to explode by the next election cycle.

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For listeners:
This episode is a must for anyone interested in the intersection of tech, politics, and economics. It provides a critical look at underreported issues—especially the synergy between big tech’s hunger for energy, failed energy policy, and the pain felt by average Americans. It’s especially valuable for understanding why electricity and food costs are rising, and which issues may soon dominate political debate.

Transcript

[Ryan Graduski]

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[Ryan Graduski]

Welcome back to A Numbers Game with Ryan Graduski. Thank you all for being here again. Happy Monday. And it is a happy Monday because we have new polling. I will admit it's just Internet polls, so that means that they're not the greatest in terms of accuracy. But I have a lot of issues with them and I will be able to show you how the cake is baked and give you the kernels of truth to learn from. So you can see because they made a lot of news and there are things to figure out from them. But it will. But they're not the greatest pollsters. So the first poll that came out was a survey monkey poll. It was released by NBC News. There is a lot of things in this poll like are red flags. It is, it is a, it is like a date with a woman who doesn't blink and already knows your mother's maiden name. It is definitely a problematic poll. So first issue with it, the poll was conducted from August 13 to September 1. Remember, polls are snapshots in time. They are not predictors of the future. So you want a limited time period for a poll to be conducted. Right. A poll should be done over the course of a few days to at most a week, not over several weeks because you're not getting an accurate opinion of things. Secondly, it was done by SurveyMonkey, which is an Internet pollster. They don't have a great reputation in the business. What they can do successfully is very large surveys. Right. And so people think, oh, you get such a big bang for your buck as you're serving 30, 40, 50,000 people. That's not the case. SurveyMonkey in 2024 had a seven point error almost. Their polls are a C. They have a C grade as far as pollsters go. Remember back in high school Sees, you know, they're not. You can graduate with them, but you can't actually make get anywhere decent for college. So before I go any further with, I want to go through the results. I want before I sit there and mock the poll a little bit more, but I want to go through the results. The poll found that President Trump has an approval rating of 43%, a disapproval rating of 57%. Among the issues that Americans care about the most, the economy came in first at 25%, threats to democracy with 24% and health care with 17%. President Trump's weakest issue, the poll found, was inflation. With only 39% of Americans approving of the job he's doing on inflation, 61% disapproved. Okay, here's how you know. The poll also has a problem with sample size. When asked how they felt about the current administration, 73% of Republicans said that they had a positive word, like they were thrilled or they were excited. 17% had a neutral word. That doesn't seem like much of a red flag to me, but among independents, only 8% had a positive word, which is way too low to be an accurate poll. And 34% had said they were neutral on the administration, which is way too high. Like that means you're either A, over sampling Democrats among the independents or B, which is the case for this poll. You have too many people who do not vote and don't pay attention to the news being sampled. 41% of people who responded this poll said they did not vote in 2024, and over 20% were not registered to vote. So poll is way too overrepresentative of people who don't vote, never will vote, don't really follow the news and kind of go on vibes where they've heard in the media it's not accurate to the electorate or how people will be changing their opinion over time. My guess is SurveyMonkey did it and did not charge NBC for it, which is why NBC released it. That's my own personal guess. The other poll that came out this last Weekend was a YouGov poll released by CBS. YouGov is another Internet pollster, which a whole host of problems because they only do Internet things. But the big takeaway from this poll was that Trump's approval rating has gone up from 42% in July to 44% August. Support for tariffs, however, have slipped to a low of 38%. Once again, Trump's weakest issue was on inflation. And 60% of Americans that the economy was in bad shape. When asked how people are judging the success or failure of the Trump administration, 44% of Republicans, the largest group of Republicans, said they were judging based on how he kept his promises around immigration. 26% of independents tied between immigration and the economy slash inflation. In this sense, because Republicans are more focused on immigration, they're willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Trump on other issues because he's kept a lot of his immigration promises. But 50% of Americans say they are financially worse off, including 55% of independence, especially on the issue of food prices. Now, once again, these polls are Internet polls. They're not high quality polls. You shouldn't take them as gospels. But there are kernels of truth there, namely fears over the economy, especially over inflation, are real. They are really hurting this president's approval process. And while the media tries to tie Trump down in controversies that nobody cares about, that they love to obsess over, everything from what Elon's doing to National Guards troops to whatever the flavor of the moment to draw clicks are for, you know, Rachel Maddow viewers, that is not what's driving negative approval of President Trump. It is the cost of living and the cost of food. And this is what Republicans need to address. A big part of that that they are not addressing, that they are not even talking about yet, is that the TR is that the Trump administration is going all in on AI and tech companies. They think that this is the way to solve a myriad of our national problems, especially growth, especially job creation. They're completely invested in this sector of the economy. I personally believe, and I have seen polling on it, that they are. The Trump administration is very out of step with the fears and the beliefs of the general public. There's a general worry from Americans not they're not the sky is not falling, but they are concerned when it comes to AI and technology. Everything from tech in the classrooms to automation of jobs to data collections of our health records, there's just sauce caused to be concerned. So recent polls like Pew research found that 51% of Americans were concerned about AI and 75%, according to Gallup, said that AI was going to reduce jobs. And Reuters found that 61% of Americans think that AI could threaten humanity. These aren't great numbers when it comes to an entire sector that members of the Trump administration are saying, let's go pedal to the metal. Let's completely gamble on with no or limited regulation. And the problem as of right now, because they're betting that like these medical breakthroughs and all this Other stuff, which there may be. But the problem right now is energy costs that are trickling into people's bills on their day to day life. There could be a great future that comes from AI. But look at what's happening right now in the New Jersey and Virginia gubernatorial elections. Right? Look at what the main issue both Republicans and Democrats running for office are talking about. Right? When I had on, I had on. Ryan Fazio was running for governor of Connecticut last week on the show. What was the one thing he was talking about? Electricity costs. Electricity prices have risen past the rate of inflation for three consecutive years since 2020. Electricity prices are up over 30% now. Part of that is because of overspending because of COVID There's too much money in the system. We're seeing genuine inflation. And in some parts of our country it's because green New Deal policies didn't work to produce the level of energy that they promised throughout the last 20 some odd years. And they have made energy more expensive. That is all part of it. But the bigger part that is recently happening is the creation and the explosion of these AI data centers. Or just data centers. Not AI, but data centers. According to the New York times, data centers consumed 4% of all electricity created in the United States in 2023. That will jump to 12% of all electricity created in the united states by 2028. This isn't far off in the future. This is insane growth, crazy growth. And that doesn't say anything about the water being used to cool these data centers. A major data center consumed up to 5 million gallons of water per day. That's as much water as needed for a town of 50,000 people. Now, when you consider that these data centers are propped up in states that are increasingly being populated in areas that have large levels of droughts in the south and in the Southwest, it makes this situation even more problematic as those data centers continue to grow. A June analysis from the Carnegie Mellon University and North Carolina State University found that electricity bills are on on track to rise an average of 8% nationwide by 2030 and as much by 25% in states with large amounts of data centers like Virginia. Look, I'm not a genius. I don't have many talents in this life, but one talent I do is I can see political movements starting from a mile away. Energy cost is the populous uprising that no politician is yet jumping on. But they will. They all will. This is going to be the conversation for the 2026 governor's races. For the 2028 presidential election. Someone will be talking about this because these tech companies that make these data centers, they're increasingly asking for tax cuts. They're, they create virtually no jobs outside of temporary construction jobs. And this increased costs of these centers that produce virtually no jobs are being consumed by taxpayers. And those just aren't just electricity costs. Think of how this ripples through your average cost of your daily life. What is the main driver of costs when it comes to food? It's not labor, it's energy. So while oil is fairly cheap to transport right now, it's not as high as it was at other points in our recent history. Electricity, which you need to keep products and produce fresh, is more, more expensive. And in fact the rate of growth is increasing faster for realtors than it is for your home. So where are these costs going to be felt by consumers, by restaurants, by all of these people in the food business? You know, for as much as President Trump's, Trump's tariffs are being blamed for rising costs. We grow most of our food in America. They, they're not subject to tariffs. We're the breadbasket of the world. So why are we seeing these costs explode? Partially is the hang up of too much money in the system and Covid and all the rest of the stuff I said. But the Walmart supercenter or the Costco or the Publix that you're buying your groceries from, they are spending more to refrigerate them and they are moving those prices onto you because we're all on the same power grid. Everyone's using the sight using power grid and there's no sign that this is going to end. My adoptive state of Louisiana is currently building one of the largest data centers on the planet. Enough to build 173 super domes and power 2 million homes. And this is a Meta data center. And Meta is only required to share in the cost for 15 years. After that, most of the cost will be spread to Louisiana taxpayers. Now I'm not saying we shouldn't have any data centers. We obviously need them. And but these are the wealthiest companies on earth. Some of these are the wealthiest companies that ever existed on earth. Why are they receiving tax cuts to build these things? Why are we as taxpayers being forced to subsidize things that are on our grid? This is corporatism. This is corporate welfare at its finest. And if you think that the Bernie Sanders movement was big in 2016, wait until an elderly person or working class people have to choose between heating their homes this winter and paying their regular bills as data center. Eat up more and more of our energy. This is the next populist fight that will happen by the time 2028 comes around, if not sooner. I do believe this will happen in most 2026 elections. We will be talking about electricity and AI data centers, our data centers, period. And this will be the thing that people will jump on and blame the administration on. And if we cannot reduce the cost of living in this country, it will be very painful for a lot of people, but especially for the Republican Party who is in charge right now. My guest this week is an expert on energy. He's coming on next to discuss what's going on with data centers and how it's going to be affecting you and your pocketbook. That's coming up next.

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[Ryan Graduski]

Ah come on. Why is this taking so long?

[Daniel Turner]

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[Ryan Graduski]

With me today to discuss this topic is Daniel Turner. He is the founder and Executive Director of Power the Future and his uncle is my old boss, Congressman Bob Turner. A campaign I was very proud to work on back like a decade ago. So Daniel, thank you for being here.

[Daniel Turner]

Oh Ryan, it's great to be with you. And yeah, longtime friends. So I know this is like a reconnection. I love it.

[Ryan Graduski]

Well, anyone from Queens who grew up here is a special person well, your organization wrote a fascinating research piece about the growth of data centers, specifically mentioning one of the references they mentioned in the piece was about the state of Virginia. You wrote that in data centers could take up 46% of all electricity made in the state by 2030. What does that average, that kind of growth average out to the cost per citizen?

[Daniel Turner]

Our utility bills in Virginia are up 35 to 40% depending upon the part of the state. And yeah, there's lots of reasons and bad energy policy at the national level can have some impact. But the main driver is that we have. Roughly a third of the nation's data centers are between my farm in Shenandoah and Washington D.C. every time I drive to D.C. for whatever reason, I pass all of these data centers. And the average data center is the equivalent energy consumer of 100,000 homes. And so when you look at our governor, who I like very much, Glenn Youngkin, but he's talked about how we've built 200 and something data centers while he's been governor. And, and yes, there's tax revenue and job creation and all that, but what he doesn't say is we've basically added 23 million Virginians in terms of energy consumption and we haven't increased our energy production. So the natural result when you have same supply and increased demand is prices go up. And this is a crisis that's going to hit nationwide. As we're building these data centers left and right, we're not producing the energy to sustain it.

[Ryan Graduski]

Well, and it doesn't sound like these data centers make that many jobs. There's obviously construction jobs, but long term jobs, there's not a lot of jobs.

[Daniel Turner]

No, there's. There, you're absolutely right. There are construction jobs which are great, you know, if you're in that industry. And of course there are suppliers and cement and steel and all that. But then yeah, on the long term there's very few actually, if anyone watched that great show Silicon Valley, there was always that weird creepy guy who worked at the data center and in these huge cavernous halls and just one strange guy. And that's kind of what it is. There's four or five people who work there because that's, that's what they like about AI is that they don't require human, human labor. So yeah, there isn't long term job creation. It's another reason why municipalities love them so much because they say, hey look, we're going to get this tax revenue, but we don't have, it's not like an Amazon fulfillment center. Where you've got Traffic now of 900, a thousand additional cars. So you don't notice it on the roads, but you notice it on electricity, water also. That's another podcast. But, but both of them are now scarce because of these data centers.

[Ryan Graduski]

Well, okay, I have an opinion that part of the reason that food costs have increased is because the corporation like to, you know, Costco, Walmart, wherever you get your food, Publix, you're in, they're in competition with these data centers for electricity as well. And that's what you need to keep, keep produce fresh. Is that, is it, Are we seeing this filter out by then? Just straight electric costs? Is the cost of everything in our normal consumption lives also going up? Because electricity and energy costs are going up 100%.

[Daniel Turner]

And this is a huge vulnerability for President Trump because he ran on this and he is not to blame. We put out another study about called America's Coming Energy Crisis and we made it clear, right, President Trump, this is not his fault, but it is going to come to a head on his administration and he is going to get the blame if things don't work out. So something like shutting down the border happened pretty quickly, right? Within the first couple of days it stopped. But reversing four years of bad energy policy is not going to happen on a dime. It's going to happen very, very slowly. And when you make energy expensive, you make life expensive. Because everything around us, this podcast, everything requires energy. Anything grown, manufactured, transported, refrigerated, all of that requires energy. So from the very first kernel of corn that, that is planted and irrigated and harvested, your diesel prices were through the roof for four years under Biden. And that takes a while to trickle down, right? We're eating last year's food because we're harvesting this year's now. So, so last year's wheat, last year's corn that was planted under really high energy prices and the farmers are going to pass on those costs. So, so it's going to take a while to lower energy costs and then it's going to take even longer for those costs to get felt by the American people.

[Ryan Graduski]

How much can our grid hold? Because that's. We constantly hear the grid is under so much stress. The grid is under so much stress, I don't really know what that means. And is there a limit to how many more, how much more energy the grid can sustain that we're. That it's consuming?

[Daniel Turner]

Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, again, this is just like any other fixed commodity that at a certain Point, if the demand is too high, collapse is absolutely imminent. And what happened in the past. A lot of people are comparing the AI data revolution to the birth of the Internet in the late 80s, early 90s, etc. And it's a little bit true, but there's a scale of magnitude when it comes to energy consumption. You also have to remember when, when the Internet was coming on board in the 90s, that's when we decided to outsource all of our jobs to China. So we were shutting down factories in Toledo and Akron and sending our furniture makers from North Carolina off to China when, when the Internet was coming on board. So it kind of averaged out. Now we're bringing these jobs back, the president's trying to bring manufacturing back, and we're building these data centers. And yeah, the grid is a very, very fixed amount. And, and the electric grid isn't like your water supply. It's, it's, it's kind of. There's really almost no other analogous situation of a pressurized system that when it collapses, it doesn't just turn back on. Right. You don't start a fire and boil water and, and get the turbine spinning and you have electricity. So, so when collapse happens, it is absolutely catastrophic.

[Ryan Graduski]

How much does it is going to cost to keep up the growth of electricity, especially from data centers? Like, how much is that going to cost? The grid is owned by the government. So how much is that going to cause taxpayers to keep this growth that is required?

[Daniel Turner]

Yeah, well, we're, like I said, at 30% nationally, 30, 40% higher utility prices than we have been historically. And I don't see them sadly dropping anytime soon because we're not producing more immediately. We will over time. But to build a coal plant, to build a natural gas plant, a nuclear plant takes a little while. So we're not producing more in the immediate, but we are adding an awful lot more in the immediate. So the equivalent, for example, is.

[Ryan Graduski]

The.

[Daniel Turner]

Nuclear power plant that Governor Cuomo shut down. Perfect example. We've called many times for Governor Hochul to just put it back online. We've asked the White House to use executive authority. And not that I love the federal government sticking in its nose in states rights, but this is an emergency. Right. That's a 2,000 megawatt facility that was just taken offline by Andrew Cuomo for purely stupid reasons. He replaced it with nothing. He promised wind, he promised solar, but nothing was replaced. So what's the Delta prices go up? Kathy Hochul has said we're going to build more nuclear Plants. Lovely. Why don't we turn on the ones that have already been turned off? Just put them back online.

[Ryan Graduski]

Are we building more nuclear plants across the country?

[Daniel Turner]

Because I think there's permitting in place. But again, these are five, six year programs.

[Ryan Graduski]

Okay.

[Daniel Turner]

And, and that's also the problem of Joe Biden's four years of hiatus. Right. It's like if you stop work it out on or running on the treadmill. Right. Like when you come back after four years of going to the gym.

[Ryan Graduski]

Something I'm very familiar about.

[Daniel Turner]

Aren't we all? You don't pick right up where you left off.

[Ryan Graduski]

Right?

[Daniel Turner]

Right. You're back to zero. And when it comes to electricity or energy writ large, this administration, if they can dig us out of the hole Biden put us in, I would give that an A. We haven't even made progress. Just I think we are so far in this hole that if Trump can get us to, that's a win in my book.

[Ryan Graduski]

Is the whole partially responsible? Because especially during the Obama administration, but it continued under Biden, America was hung up on this idea that green energy would produce this immense amount of huge windfall. And I'm not an expert on this field whatsoever, but I do know a lot of corporations got a lot of taxpayer dollars and didn't produce nearly anything that they promise.

[Daniel Turner]

You're spot on. Right. We incentivize in the Obama administration, corporations to go green. We gave them enormous tax credits, the whole esg, right? Which was another one of those acronyms like dei, just communism under a new brand, the whole esg, Energy, environment, social governance, etc, right. We told companies, hey, if you invest in a wind farm, we will, you know, tax credits, tax benefits, et cetera. So yeah, corporations were incentivized to invest in a wind farm. And then the politician got this talking point, look at this wind farm that we've built. And isn't this great? The problem is that the ratepayers are the ones who got screwed, right? The corporations got the tax break, you got your reliable coal plant shut down and now you have this crappy wind farm which is incredibly expensive to maintain, only works 15% of the time and your rates go through the roof when it comes to the green. And this is a, this is an hours long show I'd love to do. But when it comes to going green, I always say find me any place in the world that's worked right.

[Ryan Graduski]

Just show me.

[Daniel Turner]

Look at Europe, look at California, look at any place that says we are the greenest. Does it work? If work means Less affordable or more affordable, less expensive for the ratepayers and a more reliable grid. And there isn't a place in the world that the more green you have, the more it has worked. So they have to define work as investments. Right? We've invested. Remember the debate last year? Kamala Harris said we've invested a trillion dollars in the green economy. As if that's like a win, like pissing away a trillion dollars is somehow something that she applauds. I mean, I could say I invested a trillion dollars in green hats and now look, everyone's got a green hat. What the hell did we accomplish? Nothing. And so the green movement has no wins under its belt except for these fake metrics of which every communist movement has these same fake metrics.

[Ryan Graduski]

Well, it seems like when I looked at a map of energy price increases, blue states like Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, California have the high. Hawaii especially have the highest rate of cost increases. And I, and I'm guessing this is just a guess, but I'm guessing that is a lot to do with their green. New policies basically already increased the cost of electricity and now the AI data centers are just turbocharging it.

[Daniel Turner]

That's a huge part of it. And to show you that it's true bipartisan stupidity, Texas has, has higher than it should electricity rates because Texas has hundreds of millions of acres in west Texas that are not really of productive land. Right? You can't really graze a lot of cattle. You can't really raise a lot of crops, but you can lobby the governor to lease the land for wind farms. And then you write a big check to the governor's re election campaign and the governor gets to say we are the leading nation. Energy rich Texas, which has had grid collapses in the past. The big one in 2022 when 700 and something people froze to death in their house. No one famous, right? Wasn't the governor's son who died. It was poor, useless, nameless, probably black and brown, you know, or illegal immigrants. No one built them a damn statue. No one protested. But Texas Republicans get to say we are leading the world in wind turbine, but your average Texan pays 30% more than they should for electricity. And the governor of Texas, not this year because they've had a mild summer, right? So congrats on luck. But the governor in the past has sent tweets like, hey Texans, the grid's at a strained level. We ask you to not use your washing machine. What the hell world? This is Texas oil energy rich. Texas is a leading example of Green stupidity. But they get the talking points, their buddies get the tax benefits. So what do we care if the average Texan gets screwed? And that's kind of how your government looks at you. In a general rule, Republican or Democrat has said, as much as I hate to admit it, it is true bipartisan stupidity when it comes to green.

[Ryan Graduski]

Well, and you mentioned water before. These data centers take up an enormous level of water as Americans have migrated to the south, especially the Southwest, states like Texas that don't have a ton of water to begin with, that are constantly dealing with national droughts. This can't make that process any easier, right?

[Daniel Turner]

No, no. And this is a huge concern I have, especially as, as a farmer where water is. Is essential. And we have all seen our creeks lower, our ponds lower. Why? Because I said we added the equivalent of 23 million people when it comes to energy and water consumption in our state. And so, yeah, this is a huge product, a problem on the horizon. But again, these are the things that aren't sexy to run on. Right? You run on. We're going to bring in data centers and we're going to transgender sports and we're. And those are all important issues. I'm not knocking them. The boring things that you ask your government to do, which is grid and roads and infrastructure. No one runs on those issues. We have a gubernatorial race here in Virginia, and the trans movement hopefully will get Abigail Spanberger kicked out because she's a monster when it comes to mutilating children and, and boys and girls, sports, et cetera. But a real concern for Virginia should be these data centers. And no one's talking about it because it's poor.

[Ryan Graduski]

She's actually the first statewide candidate to even mention data centers at all. I mean, she's not talking about a ton, but she actually referenced it because in New Jersey, they haven't brought it up. Winsome Sears hasn't brought it up. It is shocking that no one is talking about something, I think. I mean, it's not inconceivable, but the next winter there will be elderly people on fixed income who have to choose how to heat their homes if they can't afford the price of heat. And during the Obama administration, when they're having all these green new deals, we talked about corporatism, Right? The fact that the corporations have privatized. Privatized profits, but socialized losses.

[Daniel Turner]

Yeah.

[Ryan Graduski]

These AI centers to me look like corporatism in that sense. In the sense that the taxpayers are footing the bill of the wealthiest corporations that have ever existed who should be building their own grids of some sort who subsidize this immense amount of cost and are reaping immense amounts of money from it. I just think that it's. I don't know. To me, it's a very obvious populist wave that will be a messaging thing come 2026, if not soon, any time this year, 100%.

[Daniel Turner]

And the best example of that is when Microsoft announced that they were opening Reactor 2 at the famous Three Mile island nuclear plant. And Microsoft is building an enormous data center nearby. Governor Shapiro in Pennsylvania gave them all the green lights and everyone said, yeah, this is wonderful, but why don't the Pennsylvanians deserve reliable, affordable nuclear, right? No one opened up reactor two for the good of the people of Pennsylvania. They opened it because Microsoft asked for it to open. And you're right, this is a huge risk that if corporations get to come into the area and say, we want a data center and we want to build a coal plant, we're like, awesome. And don't get me wrong, I love coal. But why doesn't the government say we need a coal plant just because we need to lower prices for our constituents and will.

[Ryan Graduski]

Will that energy sector they just built in Pennsylvania, will that equal one data center or will they'll still be at a running at a loss?

[Daniel Turner]

I probably will be good for one data center and then some because nuclear plants and reactor two will probably put out 600 megawatts, which is a lot of electricity. But still, no one thinks about doing these things for the good of the people, right? No one thinks about it widening the road for the. You do it after enough people bitch and complain about it. But no one proactively says, let's make the. Let's make the Verrazano free. Right? No one ever does that because it's good for the people. They only do it if they're pushed by corporations or they just ignore it. The wills of the people. It's the same thing as like, we're going to make it a sanctuary city and then suddenly your kid is in class with 40 kids that don't speak English. No one cares about the school kids. No one cares about you, the parent, right? We care about the talking point. We brought in a data center. We became a sanctuary city. And the people suffer the consequences. These secondary and tertiary consequences of bad policy, right?

[Ryan Graduski]

Well, Daniel, where can people go to see. Read more of your, your organization's work and read more of your stuff.

[Daniel Turner]

Powerthefuture.com or, you know, if you have a question, danielowerthefuture,.com shoot me an email. I'd love to help you out.

[Ryan Graduski]

All right, thank you so much for coming this podcast. Daniel, Great time.

[Daniel Turner]

Ryan, thanks. Good to see you.

[Ryan Graduski]

You're listening to it's the Numbers Game with Ryan Graduski. We'll be right back after this message.

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Why is this taking so long?

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[Ryan Graduski]

Now it's time for Ask Me Anything segment. If you want to be part of the Ask Me Anything segment, email me. Ryan numbers game podcast.com that's Ryan numbers game podcast.com I love getting your emails. This email comes from Connor from Western New York, New York. I don't know why I just said New York like that. From Western New York. Yeah, there's a few questions so I'm going to answer them. 1. Western New York is largely forgotten about in the context of national politics, especially because it's a Rust Belt area of the Rust Belt. Do you have any insights into future trends or political history of this area? It's forgotten about when we talk about the Rust Belt because it's in New York, which is not a swing state. That's really the truth of the matter. If it were, if upstate New York were its own state, it would definitely be talked about and campaigned on more. But because New York State's population is so concentrated in New York City and the surrounding suburbs of Long Island, Rockland and Westchester, and upstate has just hollowed out. It just doesn't get the love and attention it deserves. And Governor Kathy Hochul doesn't even give it that much attention and she's from there. So if New York ever became a swing state, we would see efforts to bring it in the fold and have that conversation. But I think that because it's such a heavily unionized state and it's an area where the governor's always resisting any Republican efforts to do stuff on trade, especially President Trump, it's just been kind of forgotten about, unfortunately. That's just, I mean, but we'll see. I mean, New York did move 11 points in the last election. So if it moves seven more, it's swing state territory. And I promise you Western Europe will be visited and talked about then. Is there quest question two, Is there any data on how people vote that move to different states? Like examples, what are political characters of California or New Yorkers moving to Tennessee or Georgia? That's a great question. So this thing is talked about quite a bit by a lot of people. There's a lot of like, especially as Californians move, there's a lot of like don't California my Arizona or my Texas? There has never been really strong recent, especially in the 2024 election data to look at how transplants changed elections. There was a little bit in 2022 because Covid was so feared and fear mongered by the media. A lot of Democrats didn't move to states like Florida because out of fear for Covid and Republicans did from like the Northeast. When it comes to interstate migration, there's actually a lot more clear data. And this can you can see in the 2022 New York State governor's election during COVID a lot of people in Manhattan moved to the Hudson Valley because they wanted like they wanted blue state laws around Covid, but they didn't want to live in Manhattan, so they moved to the Hudson Valley. And you can see in the election results of the 2022 governor's race, the only part of New York state that got bluer from the previous election was the Hudson Valley. Most people keep their politics depending on regardless of what state they move to. They don't, they don't change state lines and all of a sudden say, you know what, that Barry Goldwater had a point. Anyway, okay, last question he asked, I know you mentioned you are Catholic. Do you have a difficult time watching the Republican party slowly drift left on social issues. Is there any data to indicate some Republicans will eventually sit things out of the party goes too far left. So do I. Okay, so first, is there any data? Yeah, but there's no alternative. Right. So if there was an actual third party that was very right wing on social issues, that had a viable chance. But most people have a football mentality when it comes to politics. It's my team versus your team and their team is far worse. And I think because Democrats have moved so far left on social issues to the point of like insanity, that even with the Republicans no longer being the party of like evangelicals of the 2000s, it's still the welcomed party. Me, myself, do I have a problem with it? No, because I believe I'm a political animal and winning is everything when it comes to politics. But you do want people who reflect your beliefs. And I think that being a pluralistic society that is less religious than it was, I don't expect people to live under my many, many, many wild beliefs. I have some beliefs that are definitely out there for the average person and I'm not gonna expand on that because it's not worth it because I'm not here to try to convert everyone to the church of Ryan Gradusky. I think that the best thing that you could do as a religious person is one, the Republican party should be tolerant and try to leave people alone. Right? The fact that those nuns are still being sued over not giving out contracept is ridiculous. Right? You don't want that. You want a Republican Party that will defend the beliefs of religious people to practice and worship and live as they, as they, as they want. Because ultimately the most oppressed person is the individual. Right? That's the. If you have an individual belief on anything, you're more likely be oppressed. But I think that that is, that's the most oppressed minority anyways, the individual. I think that that is the. I think that's the most that they could hope for in a pluralistic society that is less religious. And if we can protect the rights of communities to have self determination, that they want to live in a certain way, they want to have certain customs, then they should be allowed to. Right? If a, if a community in Kentucky wants a Christmas tree in their public school, honestly, it should not be the government's responsibility to knock down doors and drag and people out and find people. You have to accept though, if that's going to be your standard, that you have to be okay when Muslims in large communities want to do the same thing, right? We don't live in a Christian nationalist nation despite the wishes of some people. We live in a pluralistic society. So we want to respect individuals rights to believe and pray and everything. Then we have to accept them for all people. And I think that as an individual, the most that I can do and the most that any of us can do is to make sure the institutions that matter to us are visited in our practice. It's very sad when we see like in western New York, there was a big cathedral, big Catholic cathedral that's being torn down partially because all the practicing Catholics left the area and no one goes to the church anymore. But we see that throughout the entire world where people don't go to churches of all faiths, not just Catholic faiths. The church is closed and they're demolished and something depressing is built there or more depressing. So the littlest things that I can do that I think about as a person of faith is go to my church, put money in the thing every Sunday and participate. And the most we can hope from I think the government is to be left alone. But that involves also winning elections. And you cannot run as a theocrat in 2025America and hope to win. And the alternative is Democrats, which do have a state religion that they will push on you. So I know it was a long winded answer, but that's what I think. I didn't write. I didn't write that answer thoroughly out, but that's my opinion about it. I'm not depressed. It is what it is. And I just hope that individual communities can live as autonomously as possible and we respect self determination. So. All right, thank you for listening to this episode. I hope you like it. Please like and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, wherever. Get your podcast. This Thursday episode is a special tribute to 9 11. I'm having my mom on who worked at the World Trade center on the 97th floor of Tower One. So we're going to have a conversation on the podcast that we very rarely have ever had in real life. And it will be good. I think it'd be really important, especially people who are too young to remember it, to remember that day. And I'll tell you about my experience being a teenager in New York City and having parents who worked as cops and in the World Trade Center. And my mom will come on and talk about her experience working there. And yeah, it'll be a great episode. Hope you guys all listen. Please like and subscribe and I will see you on Thursday.

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This is an iHeart podcast.