Karol Markowicz Show: From Tech to Activism with Ian Haworth

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: Karol Markowicz Show: From Tech to Activism with Ian Haworth
Release Date: March 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, hosted by Premiere Networks, Clay Travis and Buck Sexton engage in a compelling conversation with Ian Haworth, a syndicated columnist, speaker, and podcast host transitioning from the tech industry to activism. The discussion delves deep into Ian's motivations, experiences, and perspectives on pressing societal issues, particularly focusing on antisemitism and the intersection of technology and activism.

Host’s Opening Remarks

Carol Markowitz opens the show by addressing societal trends, specifically the declining marriage rates attributed to women prioritizing their careers over relationships. She challenges this narrative, suggesting that many women are not merely choosing careers but may be unintentionally sidelining meaningful relationships. Markowitz emphasizes the importance of recognizing when to prioritize personal relationships alongside professional ambitions.

Carol Markowitz [03:06]:
"I don't quite agree. I've known lots of career women in my life, and sometimes they treat relationships like another job."

Guest Introduction: Ian Haworth

The spotlight shifts to Ian Haworth, introduced as a guest who has recently transitioned from a successful career in big tech to becoming a vocal activist against antisemitism. Ian shares his journey, highlighting his educational background and professional experience.

Background of Ian Haworth

Ian, an Oxford University graduate with degrees in computer science, recounts his four-year tenure at Facebook in Silicon Valley. He discusses how the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting in 2018 became a pivotal moment, propelling him from the tech world into activism.

Ian Haworth [09:56]:
"I was at Facebook when the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting happened, and it made me realize the importance of speaking out against antisemitism."

Transition from Tech to Activism

Ian elaborates on his decision to leave the tech industry, driven by a desire to effect positive change. He reflects on the restrictive environment in Silicon Valley for conservatives and the limited avenues for expressing dissenting opinions.

Ian Haworth [12:32]:
"I miss elements of tech, like the creativity and innovation, but being able to be my own person and speak my mind is more rewarding."

Discussion on Antisemitism

A significant portion of the conversation centers on antisemitism. Ian discusses the prevalence of antisemitic sentiments in various sectors, including media and politics. He highlights the contrasting reactions to antisemitic remarks based on the speaker's political alignment, noting that right-wing figures often face different scrutiny compared to their left-wing counterparts.

Ian Haworth [16:38]:
"It's about speaking honestly to the scale and breadth of antisemitism, regardless of who is perpetuating it."

Ian stresses the importance of addressing antisemitism authentically, without allowing it to be used as a political tool. He advocates for open dialogues and education as means to combat ignorance and hate.

Optimism and Future Outlook

Despite the grim reality of rising antisemitism, Ian expresses a guarded optimism. He acknowledges the increased vocalization and activism within Jewish communities, which he believes is a positive shift toward combating hate.

Ian Haworth [14:54]:
"I'm optimistic about Jewish communities fighting for their rights and not allowing persecution to continue."

Strategies for Countering Antisemitism

Ian outlines his approach to addressing antisemitism, emphasizing the need for personalized engagement. He differentiates between individuals displaying genuine ignorance and those harboring deep-seated hate, advocating for tailored strategies to reach each group effectively.

Ian Haworth [19:03]:
"Reaching out with love and kindness can make a huge difference with those who are genuinely hateful or ignorant."

He criticizes individuals who manipulate antisemitic issues for personal or political gain, labeling such tactics as cowardly and ineffective in fostering genuine understanding.

Personal Insights and Advice

Towards the end of the interview, Ian shares personal reflections and advice based on his experiences. He advises focusing on personal responsibility, maintaining a balance between professional and personal life, and avoiding superficial relationships.

Ian Haworth [34:23]:
"Take responsibility for your life. Don't let blame take over. Everything good that happens is because of you."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Ian imparting his best tips for listeners: financial responsibility, cultivating meaningful relationships, and embracing accountability in one's personal and professional life. His insights serve as a call to action for individuals to take proactive steps in fostering a more inclusive and understanding society.

Ian Haworth [34:28]:
"Choose friends who are investments rather than bills. It really changed my life."

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Notable Quotes:

• Carol Markowitz [03:06]:
  "People have less time than they think. Don't waste your time with people who you know aren't right for you just to have someone."

• Ian Haworth [09:56]:
  "I was looking at all these supposedly tolerant, compassionate people, seeing what was happening and really ignoring it or making it an attack on right-wing people."

• Ian Haworth [16:38]:
  "It's about speaking honestly to the scale and breadth of antisemitism, regardless of who is perpetuating it."

• Ian Haworth [34:28]:
  "Choose friends who are investments rather than bills. It really changed my life."

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This episode provides a thoughtful exploration of the challenges faced by individuals balancing career ambitions with personal relationships, the rise of antisemitism, and the importance of personal responsibility and meaningful connections. Ian Haworth's transition from the tech industry to activism offers valuable insights into leveraging one's platform for societal change.

Transcript

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[Carol Markowitz]

Hi and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. I had two conversations recently where the person said something like women are choosing career over relationships and that's why marriage rates are down. I know this is a standard. People say it all the time. People have said it on my show before, but I don't quite agree. I've known lots of career women in my life and I'm talking titans of industry and girl bosses with MLM scams. And they're always trying to meet a man at the beginning of their careers, in the middle, always. They may have less time to devote to it, sure, but. But some of them do treat it like another job. There are times in your life that are ripe for finding your person. Yes, it's probably not going to be the year you're trying to make partner, but it won't be your career that's standing in the way for a decade or more. The problem from the woman's perspective, I think, is they believe they have more time than they do. So they might spend their 20s in a dead end relationship with maybe even a good guy, but someone they don't plan to marry or have kids with. And sometimes the guy is not that good. I can think of many examples of women in my life who wasted many years on a guy they knew all along wasn't right for them. Often they are dazzled by his looks. That's a very common thing. And they don't want to let go of someone who's nice to them and looks good when they're around.

[Oracle Representative]

So.

[Carol Markowitz]

So I think the whole I just focused on my career is actually what women tell themselves to console themselves when it doesn't go the way that they hope in a relationship. If I were giving advice to a young woman, I tell them that they have less time than they think. And I get that they hear this elsewhere, biological clock and all that, but that's not even what I mean. I mean, don't waste your time with people who you know aren't right for you just to have someone. It could easily end up being five or ten years that shoot right by you. And yes, you'll look back at that time and you'll say, oh, I was building my career, but really you were tied up with someone who wasn't going to be the one for you. If you could figure that out early and leave yourself space and time to meet the person you actually want to marry. And please go ahead, have the career too. You'll be in a much better spot than spending time with someone who, who's kind of a placeholder for the one you actually want. Thanks for listening. Coming up next, an interview with Ian Haworth. Join us after the break.

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[Ian Haworth]

Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. My guest today is Ian Howarth. Ian is a syndicated columnist, speaker and podcast host. Hi Ian. So nice to have you on Carol.

[Oracle Representative]

Thanks for having me.

[Ian Haworth]

So I've been reading you for a long time, but I don't see any particular beat in your work except since October 7th. You've obviously covered a lot about Israel and Jewish issues. Did you have one like something that you particularly focused on before that?

[Oracle Representative]

Antisemitism was always one of my main focuses. It's actually how I got into this space in the first place. So for those listening who never heard of me or haven't followed my work particularly long, that's crazy. I used to work in big tech before this. So before this stuff I did the learn to code thing, but completely backwards. So I graduated from Oxford University with bachelor's and master's in computer science. And the way it works in the UK is you do just one subject for your entire college experience. So I know people love to joke about, you know, you do like one art class here, you do a women's studies thing here, and all of these nonsense courses they made up. Now I just did one thing which is good, it makes you an expert in something, but it also means you're really only qualified to do one thing. So I always knew I wanted to come to America. That was like one of my, one of my goals, one of my dreams. So after graduating, moved over to Silicon Valley and was working as a software engine there and a bunch of different companies and I was actually at Facebook at the time. I worked at Facebook for about four years or so and it was in 2018 when it was the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting. And I was looking around Silicon Valley, the Bay Area, California. It's very left wing. Well, the coastal areas of California are very left wing. And I was looking at all these supposedly tolerant, supposedly compassionate people, seeing what was happening and really either ignoring it or making it an attack on right wing people and using it as a weapon. And then really kind of snowballed there. I was like one of the few conservatives I knew in that area and I thought, well, this might be a good opportunity for me just to speak out and provide a voice for right wing people in that space. And it just snowballed from there. So I talk about antisemitism a lot, but really I try and talk about any issue I think is important because really everything is all encompassing. We like to focus on a single issue, I think, which makes sense if you're a journalist. I've never really seen myself as a journalist. I just like to talk about things I find interesting and important and try and push the needle in the right direction.

[Ian Haworth]

It's so interesting because I was writing about anti Semitism a lot, even before Pittsburgh. But Pittsburgh was the one anti Semitic attack that the people around me when I lived in Brooklyn did want to talk about because it appeared to be somebody, you know, a crazed right winger. And so that was the attack that they did kind of circulate opinions on. And the rabbi commented, you know, it's a local, like very leftist Reform synagogue. But the other attacks that had been going on in Brooklyn for years, they didn't say a word because the perpetrators weren't wearing MAGA hats. So it's funny that that's what spurred you into the political world. Do you ever miss, you know, the tech world?

[Oracle Representative]

I do and I don't. I think I. I very much enjoy being my own person and just being able to say what I think. I think it's a real honor to be able that, to have a job that allows you to do that. I think a lot of people who think the same way as I do, I knew a lot of conservatives who worked in tech, who worked in other industries. They have to keep their mouth shut.

[Ian Haworth]

Right.

[Oracle Representative]

And so being able to be a voice for those people is really wonderful. I think I miss elements of it. I think every industry has its perks, right? It was amazing to work on some of the projects that you get to work with in that space, to work with some of the people like the creativity, it's true. The center of the world in terms of that area of innovation and things like that. But it's just what I'm doing now. I find much more kind of motivating and much more rewarding on a personal level, because I feel like, for me, looking at it, my main goal was just to affect some kind of change and positive change. Obviously, there's a lot of people out there trying to affect any kind of change. If that's negative, sure, whatever, they'll get the clicks. But for me, it was always about the positive change. And I found that working in the software space, it wasn't something I truly loved. And I don't think everyone needs to find something they truly love in work because you get other things from it. But this was kind of a hole in my heart in a lot of ways, and it was something I was good at but didn't enjoy. And so I think doing this, you know, I'm still kind of finding my way. I'm compared to a lot of people, I'm relatively new, but I get a lot more enjoyment out of it, a lot more fulfillment out of it, by changing someone's mind or something, or affecting a positive change on something that truly matters, rather than just cranking out a product that someone else could do that job. And I'd like to think that what I do, only I could put out what I think and the way I do it. And I think that's true of everyone and their opinions. Everyone is unique in that way. And so I don't really miss it. There's obviously pieces I missed. The free food was pretty amazing, but otherwise, no, I'm pretty happy where I am right now.

[Ian Haworth]

Yeah, we don't get free food in the podcast world, which I think is unfair. We really do need the free food. So you're doing something meaningful, and it's still a very hard subject to be covering. Do you feel optimism or. We're recording this a few days after the return of the Bebus family, and obviously it's been a very difficult time. Really sad, kind of somber few days. Do you have a sense of optimism right now, or is it kind of bad times for the foreseeable future?

[Oracle Representative]

I try and not look at it in those terms because I think it's somewhat unrealistic. Again, I don't want to say I'm just a realist, because I think that can be almost pessimistic within different branding. The way I try and look at it is just taking one step forward every single day. And I have optimism for the people, I think, who are pushing the right ideas. I think there's a Lot of Jewish people who have woken up and really being vocal and stood up in a way that I haven't seen in my lifetime. So I'm optimistic about that. I'm optimistic about Jewish communities fighting for their own right to stay on their own two feet and not be persecuted into the ground, which is sounds like a normal thing that most people would do. But for a lot of Jewish communities in my lifetime, I've looked around and I've seen people shrink into the shadows and just let things go. And so I think I'm optimistic in that way. The way I approach things like antisemitism, though, is I try and do it from just a realistic perspective of trying to truly get through to people of the enemy we are facing and the evil we are facing. And because I think you can find optimism and pessimism in everything. But it's very easy to be pessimistic in the face of what we're seeing, which is rampant antisemitism across the world and in the United States and on college campuses. But then I find that almost motivating because that just speaks to the importance of everyone stepping up. So I'm optimistic in a way if people keep making these steps. But it's something we have to keep moving forward. We have to keep approaching this with the same relentlessness that our enemies are doing. Because one day we back off, one day we let it go, and then we're back to where we were before October 7th, and it'll keep happening. So I know that's an unsatisfactory answer.

[Ian Haworth]

No, it's good. It works.

[Oracle Representative]

It's how I feel.

[Ian Haworth]

Yeah, I like that. Do you have a particular strategy for countering the arguments of the other side?

[Oracle Representative]

I think it's got to be speaking honestly to the scale and the breadth of the issue. Because I think a lot of people, when they talk about antisemitism, as I mentioned before, they like to talk about what I call politically advantageous antisemitism. So you'll see a lot of right wing people talk about Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib. They're really easy targets. They absolutely should talk about those people. And often people on the left, you see them talk about white supremacist antisemitism, which again, they should absolutely be talking about. But for me, I always am kind of calling on both sides to speak about the issue honestly. And that includes doing things that might not be so politically advantageous. So when someone like Tucker Carlson, for example, comes out and says something pretty borderline anti Semitic and Sometimes not so borderline. And a lot of people who want to get on his show are just pretty quiet. But if you saw Ilhan Omar Rashida sleeve say exactly the same thing, they would be up in arms cracking out content about it. And so I think for me it's just about having that conversation. Honestly. Do you care about antisemitism or do you care about it as one as many tools to promote yourself or your brand or your political movement. And I think that's what I'm seeing a lot of positives in kind of the so called Jewish movement right now is because it's really apolitical in a lot of ways. I've made a lot of connections with people that prior to October 7th would never have spoken to me because I'm a gasp conservative, right? But I think now we're actually seeing people come together and realizing this is more than politics. So I think that's a great thing.

[Ian Haworth]

That is. I actually have been so impressed with how many Jews have woken up. I still think there's so many more to go, obviously, but I've had so many friends who are awake and alert after October 7th in a way that they never had been before. And they always had seen that threat in the distance, but never so close up. I guess my thinking on the antisemitism of the right is it's a lot less obvious. I mean, forget about the, you know, the crazy podcasters who say insane things and you know, the, I don't know, the various people on the right who I, you know, some of them I never even heard of until they became anti Semitic. So it's kind of, you know, but the Candace Owens and whatever. I think the problem is that a lot of them, again, not the very obvious ones, the rest sort of dance around the topic and they're not very obvious in the way that the left is. And they don't say I don't want Israel to exist or I, you know, terrible things about Jews in particular, they kind of are much more vague than the left. So it gets to where people are like, well, what did, what do they actually even say? How do you counter that?

[Oracle Representative]

I think a lot of that is trying to take it on a case by case basis, at least in my experience of trying to work out the intent behind it. Because I think sometimes there is just pure ignorance. There is someone says something off the cuff or without really meaning it, and then you actually get to the heart of it. And usually those people come around, they actually maybe learn something about Israel. They learn something about Jews or they learn something about the history of antisemitism that is motivating that thought. Then you have people who are genuinely hateful who just hate Jews for some unknown reason. There's always going to be hate in the world, though. I think sometimes I don't like to make this just about Jews because there is hate against all groups. That's just human nature, unfortunately. And then there's the middle ground of the people who are trying to kind of profit from both sides. I feel like those are the people who very carefully word what they are saying. I'm just asking questions, just asking questions.

[Ian Haworth]

Pulling away the veil, just asking question, very simple questions.

[Oracle Representative]

I almost respect the people who are genuinely hating more than the people who are just kind of playing this cowardly game where they're trying to attract the people who are ignorant, they're trying to pander to the people who are hateful, but they're also trying to leave an escape route. Essentially when they do get called out or they do get at least questioned on their ridiculous views and they say, oh, I wasn't actually, I don't agree with these people I'm trying to profit from. I'm not like them. I'm just, I'm just asking questions. I find that quite exhausting. I stay away from those people because I don't think they're, they're genuine. I find much more success in reaching the people who genuinely hate me or who are genuinely ignorant. I don't think those people are. I don't want to necessarily say it this way, but I don't think those two people are as bad as the people who are playing both sides, because.

[Ian Haworth]

I think those people are going through.

[Oracle Representative]

It fully, knowing what they're doing. But I think someone who's hateful, you can reach them. You've just got to get to the root of their hate. And it's something I think we should all be spending time on. Obviously there are some people who cannot be reached. There's a lot of people on the edge that if you just reach out to them with love and kindness, you can make a huge difference.

[Ian Haworth]

Yeah, my co author of the book I wrote, Stolen Youth, Bethany Mandel, she once wrote an article about how we should be trying to convince neo Nazis, like away from neo Nazism. And it gets thrown in her face all the time. Like people are constantly like tweeting that article back at her, like, how dare you have said this? And then a few years ago, of course, AOC Ocasio Cortez, she said the Same thing. And that became an okay thing to say. Like, if you have family members drifting into this kind of hate, you know, try to. Try to get them back, try to argue points with them, try to show them love and be like, I still love you and I just want you to come back to reality. It's tough, though, when you are trying with these people who hate you. But I agree with you that they're a lot more honest than the dancers. What I called the dancing around the reality, the just asking really stupid questions. Crowded. And it's interesting that you find those people kind of more reachable.

[Oracle Representative]

Yeah. Because I think someone can make a mistake of logic or a mistake of emotion, and that can build an entire platform for a bunch of different views. But if you get to that root, it's actually pretty easy to solve. You see this all the time of people who've been hateful, let's say radical Islamic terrorists who have come back and now they speak out against radical Islamic terrorism. No one is locked into their ideology. I think all these people can be reached. You've always got to pick your battles because there are some people who are way too deep that it's actually quite dangerous to try and reach them. But then there's all these people on the fringe who, if you just leave them to the whims of the extreme, then they're going to go somewhere. I think that's the problem I've seen in a lot of media when people speak to, for example, young men. There's a lot of people who are very dismissive and quite, I think, nasty in a way of just laughing at people who feel lost, who don't feel supported, who don't feel like someone truly listens to their issues. And sure, their issues, compared to other people's issues, might not be as bad, or they might have an easier time of it by nature of their skin color, which you can have a whole can of worms debate over. That doesn't mean their problems aren't important. And then we're surprised when people like Andrew Tate and Dan Bazerian and all these people rush in to fill the void. And it's like people are complaining these people have an audience while also ignoring their audience. And I think that's a really important thing that everyone needs to understand is that if you mock people, we've seen this in politics, we see in culture. If you mock people and bully them, you can't then be surprised when they go somewhere where they are not mocked and bullied. It's like a very simple human response is to go somewhere where you feel supported. The problem is they're being supported by people who don't actually care about them.

[Ian Haworth]

Right. That is the issue where we're pushing these people away or they're being pushed away and falling into the arms of people waiting to accept them. It's, it's a tough, tough situation. We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

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[Ian Haworth]

What do you worry about? What's like, on your mind when you are, you know, what's your general worry?

[Oracle Representative]

Ask a neurotic Jew what they worry about. How long do you have? I think the highest level thing I worry about beyond, you know, my own life and, you know, my own family and that kind of thing is I think our society taking what we have for granted and returning to what has been the norm for the vast majority of humankind, which is pain and suffering and tyranny, all these kind of things. And it's not just political. It's like it's a very cultural thing too. Western culture is good. I feel like we are constantly fighting this battle of people who want to tell you that all cultures are equal. Newsflash, they are not that. The idea that Western culture is in some ways far worse than any other. No, Western culture has given us all the best things in humankind, and there's obviously always room to improve. We're not a perfect civilization. That's true of all humans ever. But I think everyone takes for granted for what we have. They take for granted the peace we have post World War II. The peace we have is as a result of the massive, unimaginable sacrifice that people in their teens and twenties made in the thirties and forties that I couldn't see people today making that same sacrifice. I saw People losing their mind over not being able to buy toilet paper at quite the same level they did the year before. And that's what I worry about is because a civilization that doesn't respect what we have and the history of what we have and why we have it, I think is doomed to just descend into the norm for humans, which is suffering and poverty and not having access to basic things and not having the basic rights that have become the norm for us. But they're only a norm because we made it so and so. I think that's, that's my high level worry. Beyond the personal.

[Ian Haworth]

Do you miss Britain at all?

[Oracle Representative]

I miss my family and my friends there. I miss elements of the history. I do not miss modern day Britain. I think it has changed a lot in the way that Europe has changed. I think it is losing its way again. It's not fighting for what made it great. It is not fighting to protect its own history and the good things it did. I don't really miss the weather. I don't miss the lack of air conditioning. I don't miss having to go to a restaurant and being treated like garbage.

[Ian Haworth]

Right. Customer service. So they just don't have it over there.

[Oracle Representative]

They do not. They do not. I mean, people always mock America for that kind of things.

[Ian Haworth]

I know.

[Oracle Representative]

I can't believe tipping. Tipping is fantastic. And so I don't really miss Britain in that way. I miss the people there, like all my family there. I have friends there, obviously. But I love America. America is my home. America is where I'm going to stay. It's a country like no other. And I think you hear that from a lot of people who move here is that it truly is unique. It's not a cliche. It is truly unique in so many ways. So I can't imagine living anywhere else.

[Ian Haworth]

I love that. And you know, I lived in Scotland for a few years and they mock our, the way we all say have a nice day and all that. But it's quite nice to hear have a nice day. At the time I was like embarrassed about it. I was in my early 20s or late teens and I, you know, kind of wanted them to accept me or whatever and they would say like, oh, why do you Americans, you know, say statements like that? And I, but now I really do appreciate it. I think we really have a good thing going here. And the customer service is really can't be beat.

[Oracle Representative]

Yeah. And I think also something I learned after moving to the US as well is that it is quite jarring when you come from A place where people don't really talk to each other. Like I live in Tennessee now, so it's even more so in the south of people genuinely talking to each other. But it's the genuine element of it that I think people not from the United States don't understand is that when someone asks how are you doing? Or have a nice day, it's kind of actually genuine position in many cases of actual. Of course there are people who say it, don't mean it, but the conversations you'll have with someone in a supermarket or something, if that happens in the UK you're a little on edge. That's not normal because British people aren't quite as social stereotypically. But when it comes here it's jarring until you realize it's genuine and then it's nice. It's like when someone says, oh, I'll pray for you. That's not sarcastic, it's a meaningful statement of care. I think the moment you understand that it really is life changing.

[Ian Haworth]

It really is. I also in Britain, when they ask and answer the question how's you? All right. It's one sentence, I don't even know.

[Oracle Representative]

Where to start with that one. Some parts of Scotland, it's barely English, so it's a tough one.

[Ian Haworth]

True, true. So what advice would you give your 16 year old self? Had to offer some thoughts, I think.

[Oracle Representative]

For me a few things. The easy one is not care as much about what other people think. I think that's one of the hardest parts about being younger is you put so much weight on people who don't matter what they think. But I think that goes into adulthood too. Another thing I think I would tell my 16 year old self is just to try and find that balance between working really hard to get what you want next but also not working so hard that you kind of lose everything else that's important. I think a lot of people when they're young, they see everything as all encompassing, like I have to pass this exam otherwise my entire life will fall apart. I have to get top grade in college, otherwise I'll never get a job. And I worked really hard. I went to Oxford University. I was really proud of that when I was at Oxford. I can never quite get to the top of the class. I was always getting kind of mid range grades by nature. That was, it was a class of 17 people and they're all computer science geniuses and I was not a computer science genius. So that's part of it. But then, but I honestly felt like in that moment I was. It was very difficult at times because I was never going to get to that level. And I was trying so hard to get to that level. I had this impression that my life just wouldn't work out unless I got past that line. And then I got my first job in tech and no one cared what grade I got in college. They just cared that you went to college and you have this piece of paper. And then I got my second tech job and no one cared when I went to college. They just cared about what I did before. Once you have that realization, doing well enough to get to the next step, as long as you're happy with that next step is great. If you can balance your life and be happy with that, your life will be much happier. Rather than always trying to take everything out of a situation, making a lot of sacrifices in the meantime, when the difference between 95% and 96% five years down the line is meaningless. But it feels like everything when you're in the moat.

[Ian Haworth]

It really does. And nobody ever asked even to see my diploma or any of my grades or anything. It's whether or not you could do the job. It actually is sort of eye opening how little they care and how much we obviously cared at the time. So I've loved this conversation. This has been really awesome. I've followed you for a long time and I think you're just great. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Oracle Representative]

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. I think I have a few quick ones I'm going to throw in.

[Ian Haworth]

Yeah, let's go.

[Oracle Representative]

I think one is like a money one always. People talk about. People say money doesn't matter, money does matter. It's about finding that line where you can make enough to be happy and comfortable rather than letting it run your life. I think in terms of relationships, the best advice I heard on this is always being like trying to choose friends who are investments rather than bills. That really changed my life. Looking at it that way. Yeah, I've had a lot of friends who've been bills in my life, and my life is much better with the investments. And the final one. The final one is just taking responsibility for your life. I think it's really easy to. Bad things will happen, people will screw you over, you won't get those promotions, your manager will screw you over, all of these things will happen. And obviously you should fight back when you're able to. But I think taking responsibility for your life and not letting the blame part of it take over will make your life much happier because everything good that happens is because of you and everything bad that happens is despite everything you try to do. And it's I think you can move forward each day knowing that you did the best you could and you ultimately are standing on your own two feet as an adult and not looking for someone else to save you. I think if everyone did that, the world would be a much better place and we would be able to care for each other more as well because we would see people taking responsibility for themselves and want to help them. And so I think taking responsibility is something I go on college campuses all the time. It's the one thing I tell people, take responsibility and every problem in our lives would be better.

[Ian Haworth]

I love that he is Ian Howarth. Check him out, follow him on X. Read all of his stuff. He's really wonderful. Thank you so much, Ian for coming on.

[Oracle Representative]

Thanks for having me.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

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