Karol Markowicz Show: John J. Miller's Journey to Hillsdale College

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: Karol Markowicz Show: John J. Miller's Journey to Hillsdale College
Release Date: March 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, host Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into an engaging conversation featuring insights from Carol Markowitz on her recent discussion about societal norms and her upcoming interview with John J. Miller, the Director of the Dow Journalism Program at Hillsdale College. The episode offers a blend of personal reflections, professional journeys, and thoughtful discourse on media consumption and education.

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Discussion of "How I Became a Wife"

[02:37 - 08:46]

Carol Markowitz opens the episode by sharing her thoughts on an article titled "How I Became a Wife" by Larissa Phillips, published in the Free Press. The piece resonated deeply with Carol, prompting her to share it with her 15-year-old daughter and a listener named Amy.

Key Points:

• Social Norms and Gender Roles: The article explores the author's parents' unconventional approach to gender roles, challenging traditional expectations by discouraging typical "girly" toys and encouraging their daughters to aspire to significant societal roles, such as sitting on the Supreme Court or becoming astronauts.

  Carol Markowitz [04:15]: "My mother dressed my sister and me in overalls and earth shoes, and if we got baby dolls or tea sets, it was with a hint of disapproval."

• Personal Career and Marriage: Despite the initial upbringing promoting independence from traditional roles, the author finds that her career flourished post-marriage, attributing her success to the support system provided by her spouse. This nuanced perspective highlights the balance between personal ambition and familial support.

  Carol Markowitz [06:45]: "It's why married people, both men and women, earn more money."

• Impact on Her Daughter: Carol expresses concern over the pervasive messaging that undermines the value of relationships and emphasizes career over personal life. She underscores the importance of her daughter understanding that one can excel professionally while maintaining meaningful personal relationships.

  Carol Markowitz [08:10]: "You can be anything. You can be many things. But I can already predict what you will love being most."

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Interview with John J. Miller

[12:12 - 41:37]

Carol transitions to an in-depth interview with John J. Miller, a seasoned journalist and the Director of the Dow Journalism Program at Hillsdale College. John brings a wealth of experience from his tenure at National Review and the Wall Street Journal, as well as his contributions to podcasts like The Great Books and The Bookmonger.

Career Path and Academic Journey

• From Washington D.C. to Hillsdale College: John shares his transition from a 20-year career in Washington D.C., focusing on political journalism, to leading the journalism program at Hillsdale College. This move marked a homecoming and a shift from the bustling political hub to a more intimate academic environment.

  John J. Miller [13:14]: "The way to get your next job is to have somebody call you and offer you one. Right. That's essentially what happened."

• Educational Background: Despite not holding an advanced degree, John emphasizes that his practical experience and passion for teaching make him a valuable asset to Hillsdale’s academic community.

  John J. Miller [16:03]: "My terminal degree is a Bachelor of Arts at the University of Michigan in English. But here I am teaching how to write mostly, which is what I know how to do."

Experience at Hillsdale College

• Student Engagement: John highlights the close-knit nature of Hillsdale College, where the small student body fosters strong, enduring relationships between students and faculty. He contrasts this with his experience at larger institutions like the University of Michigan.

  John J. Miller [17:12]: "Hillsdale College is small. There's 1,600 students. There are fewer students at this college than there were in my high school."

• Academic Environment: He appreciates the orderly and respectful atmosphere at Hillsdale, free from the disruptions and protests common on many other campuses. This environment allows for focused learning and meaningful academic discourse.

  John J. Miller [19:03]: "The media is a gigantic, horrible cesspool on the one hand. On the other, some of the very finest journalists are at work today."

Media Consumption and Journalism Today

• Fight Against Algorithms: John advocates for proactive engagement with reliable news sources rather than relying solely on social media algorithms. He encourages listeners to seek out and support trustworthy publications to cultivate informed perspectives.

  John J. Miller [38:21]: "Go out and get it. Go out and find that information. Don't let the algorithm feed it to you."

• State of Modern Journalism: He offers a balanced view of the current media landscape, acknowledging both its flaws—such as misinformation and bias—and its strengths, including the availability of diverse information sources and the dedication of exemplary journalists.

  John J. Miller [40:05]: "The media is full of lies and misinformation. But some of the very finest journalists are at work today."

Personal Reflections and Advice

• Time Travel Anecdote: John shares a humorous yet insightful story about advising his 16-year-old self, drawing parallels with Ray Bradbury's "A Sound of Thunder" to illustrate the unintended consequences of altering one's past.

  John J. Miller [36:19]: "You can have this experience where you'll go and hunt the T. Rex. They send them back in time... And they're like, what happened?"

• Encouragement for Lifelong Learning: Emphasizing the importance of continuous personal and professional development, John encourages listeners to remain curious and engaged with the world around them.

  John J. Miller [38:21]: "Find the publications that you love and that you trust, go read those websites, make that a part of what you do."

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Closing Remarks

Carol wraps up the episode by expressing her gratitude for John’s participation and highlighting his contributions to journalism and education. She encourages listeners to explore John’s work and publications, reinforcing the episode’s themes of informed media consumption and the value of supportive educational environments.

Carol Markowitz [41:27]: "Check out all of his writing. Such a fantastic person. Get all his books also. I didn't get to talk about that, but he's written many books and he's just fantastic."

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Conclusion

This episode offers a compelling exploration of personal growth, the dynamics of modern journalism, and the significance of choosing reliable information sources. Through Carol Markowitz's reflections and John J. Miller's expert insights, listeners gain a deeper understanding of navigating career paths, fostering meaningful relationships, and critically engaging with the media landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Carol Markowitz [04:15]: "My mother dressed my sister and me in overalls and earth shoes... Why would girls play at being mothers or wives when they could sit on the Supreme Court or fly to the moon?"

• John J. Miller [17:12]: "Hillsdale College is small. There's 1,600 students. There are fewer students at this college than there were in my high school."

• John J. Miller [38:21]: "Fight that algorithm. Go out and find that information. Don't let the algorithm feed it to you."

• John J. Miller [40:05]: "The media is full of lies and misinformation. But some of the very finest journalists are at work today."

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for those interested in journalism, education, and the interplay between personal aspirations and societal expectations. Whether you're navigating your career path or seeking to enhance your media literacy, the insights shared by Carol Markowitz and John J. Miller provide guidance and inspiration.

Transcript

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Hi and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iheartradio. There was a piece in the Free Press a few days ago that I immediately sent to my 15 year old daughter. It was called How I Became a Wife and I was already thinking of doing a monologue on it when a listener hi Amy sent it to me too, so obviously it's a fit. The writer Larissa Phillips writes My parents weren't that extreme, but they still wanted to take a sledgehammer to social norms. They both adhered to the blank slate idea that differences between men and women were socially constructed and a little tweaking would solve the problem of disparate outcomes. My mother dressed my sister and I in overalls and earth shoes, and if we got baby dolls or tea sets, it was with a hint of disapproval. Why would girls play at being mothers or wives when they could sit on the Supreme Court or fly to the moon? When I was in the sixth grade, my mother gave me a framed print that said a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. End quote. I'll say that does actually sound quite extreme, but the part that I completely can't wrap my mind around is that you can only sit on the Supreme Court or fly to the moon if you aren't married and don't have kids. That's the separation for me. I'll say that my parents also weren't like, you should definitely get married and have children. I don't remember them ever saying that to me, but the truth is that my career that they did want me to have took off when I got married. It was just easier to do what I wanted to do with a support system and not just financial, although that definitely helped. But emotional it's why married people, both men and women, earn more money. We've been through this on the show in many previous episodes, but the reason that I sent this article to my 15 year old daughter is that I see a lot of the messaging that she gets out in the world. It's a lot of men are the worst and you don't need men. All you need is a great job and you can only have that if you aren't married and don't have kids. I particularly loved the way Phillips tells their story. She was told she was going to love one thing and then she loved another. She writes. I assumed I'd go back to work when our son was a few months old, as seemed to be the norm in New York City. But this turned out to be impossible. First, I didn't earn enough as an editor to justify daycare or a nanny, but even more importantly, leaving that soft little creature who fit so snugly and easily into my arms, who burrowed his face into my neck and slept against my chest as if he belonged there, felt deeply in my bones wrong. So I stayed home. We lived on the Upper west side of Manhattan. When we had our first child, the 15 year old I sent the article to I was writing occasionally, but definitely not professionally yet. I would occasionally write something that got printed and I got paid, but it was nowhere near a career. So I had this wide open schedule to snuggle with her and walk around and just be free and focus on her. And it was a really magical time. And I met other moms with babies about the same age who had successful careers, lawyers, doctors who all they wanted to do was stay home with their babies. They loved their jobs, but there was nothing like being home with that baby. It's just instinct. Here's what else I loved about this piece that the fact that you stayed home with your children does not mean you'll never work again. That doesn't mean you can't also have a career. It just means that if you have the opportunity to lean into this very short time of having small children and to really be with them, take it. Phillips and her husband end up having more kids and moving upstate and having a farm. And she talks about all the hard work she does. It's not all baby snuggling, but then she writes, quote, I stand by a lot of the feminist lessons I learned as a child. Of course women can sit on the Supreme Court and be astronauts or physicists or lawyers. Of course we can survive without men. But getting married, being a wife, being a mother is not a step back in time or a surrendering of ground. It's actually the best part of my life. End quote. What I would say about that is that the feminist lessons do leave out that last part. And it's important to me that my daughter understands that you can be anything. You can be many things. But I can already predict what you will love being most. Thanks for listening. Coming up, my interview with John J. Miller. But first, after more than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel, all of Israel is brokenhearted after learning of the tragic deaths of the bibish children who were held hostage in Gaza. And so many are still hurting throughout the Holy Land, where the need for aid continues to grow. 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[John J. Miller]

Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is John J. Miller. John is director of the Dow Journalism Program at Hillsdale College. He also writes for National Review, the Wall Street Journal, and other publications. He has two weekly podcasts, the Great Books and the Bookmonger. Hi, John. So nice to have you on.

[Lenovo Representative]

Hi, Carol. Thanks for having me. I love your show.

[John J. Miller]

Thanks so much. You know, I'm a huge fan of yours. I got to know you while I was at Hillsdale last year, and I still talk about Hillsdale all the time, like it comes up frequently. I had no idea just how much Hillsdale was the center of the universe.

[Lenovo Representative]

Actually, I'm blessed to be here. It's a great college. We do liberal arts the right way, and the students are wonderful.

[John J. Miller]

How did you end up there?

[Lenovo Representative]

The president called me. I wanted to come out and run the journalism program. Yeah. I mean, what I learned is, you know, the way to get your next job is to have somebody call you and offer you one. Right. That's essentially what happened. Yeah. Pro tip.

[John J. Miller]

So where were you before National Review?

[Lenovo Representative]

So I was in Washington, D.C. i'm a Michigander. I grew up in Michigan, went to University of Michigan, but then after graduating, went out to D.C. where I was a writer, professional writer for 20 years, most of that time with National Review magazine and, and writing, you know, articles on governors and senators and what's happening on Capitol Hill and book reviews and all kinds of things. And just, well, the phone rang and I picked it up, so. So they thought of me to come run, come run the journalism program here. And this is a bit of a homecoming coming back to Michigan for me, which was which was great. But, you know, this had been a great job. Even had been like, you know, in Ohio or something.

[John J. Miller]

But it's good that it was home.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, it is. It's just such a special place, though.

[John J. Miller]

Yeah, it is concerning. And the people listening on audio don't know. But you didn't show me the Palm and where in the palm you're from.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, the old. The old Michigan.

[John J. Miller]

What's up with that?

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, right on there.

[John J. Miller]

I mean, it's pointing to the lower, Lower center.

[Lenovo Representative]

Southern Michigan. You know, it's like where Indiana and Ohio meet. We're just a little bit north of that.

[John J. Miller]

I see. And do you ever miss DC or is Michigan just the future for you?

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, I do not miss D.C. i did like living there. I actually wasn't looking to leave. My wife and I were happy. We were in a good neighborhood. We liked our church. The work was pretty good. We weren't looking to leave. But since leaving, haven't missed it. I enjoy going back. I got a couple kids who live out there now, and I do like to go back and see things and so on. And occasionally I'll get a story idea, something I want to write, and I go, gosh, I wish you guys buzz into D.C. and do a few interviews. But. But by and large, well, it's better here.

[John J. Miller]

Yeah. Did you always want to be a writer?

[Lenovo Representative]

Oh, yeah, since I was little. You know, you start out wanting to. I think a lot of writers start out as readers. You know, you're kind of a bookish kid. You like to read and so forth. And then I had some teachers who just encouraged me along the way and noticed I would write things. And I had a teacher in middle school who say, you should be a magazine writer when you grow up. And you sort of stick that in the back of your head and, you know, among all the other things you want to do, you know, baseball star, you know, rock star. I mean, all that, you know, But. But you sort of. You sort of think of all the possibilities, you know, that one. That one stuck. And I. I did think all along, you know, maybe. Maybe I could do it as a writer.

[John J. Miller]

And what would have been the backup career if this didn't?

[Lenovo Representative]

Oh, clearly. Baseball star, not Ross. Yeah. You know, I nearly went to grad school to be an English professor. I did think about that pretty seriously when I was in college. So maybe something like that. And the irony is I kind of came back to academia in a sense.

[John J. Miller]

Right. I mean, you do teach a class.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, I do. I have a PhD in nothing unlike my brilliant colleagues here at Hillsdale College. They're all very well educated. My terminal degree is a Bachelor of Arts at the University of Michigan in English. But here I am teaching how to write mostly, which is what I know how to do. But I guess I've done both. My plan B kind of became the plan A eventually.

[John J. Miller]

What's the best part of teaching Hillsdale kids?

[Lenovo Representative]

Probably the students. They're really terrific kids. I mean, they're smart and they work hard, which I think is true of students on a lot of campuses around the country, just at the best colleges. I really like these students, though. I mean, they're good people. You become friendly with them. I don't want to say we become friends because the relationship is different from a kind of friend to friend, peer to peer relationship. But eventually you do, like, after they graduate and so forth, you really do become friends. And one of the things I've learned here is Hillsville College is small. There's 15, 1600 students. There are fewer students at this college than there were in my high school.

[John J. Miller]

Wow.

[Lenovo Representative]

So, yeah. So, you know, it's a big high school, but it's also a small college. And I went to the University of Michigan with tens of thousands of students. And these are very different models of higher education. And, you know, my time in Michigan was pretty good. I could say a lot about it. I'm happy I went. But I really become sold on the small liberal arts college model. And there's the fundamental difference. I like to compare it to biological breeding strategies that the University of Michigan just can't wait to see where this is. Thousands of young, right? And then many will be eaten and won't survive. Whereas Hillsdale College is much more humane. There are fewer number of offspring. You make tremendously large investments in each one. Interesting. It's like people.

[John J. Miller]

Yeah.

[Lenovo Representative]

And so I go to three, four, five weddings every summer of students, which is a joy. It's an honor to go. It never would have occurred to me to invite a professor to my wedding. Right. So this is one of the small pleasures of this place, is you actually make these friendships and they become lifelong. Ultimately, they are friendships. But I really like these kids. I like working with them, helping them become good writers and then watching them go.

[John J. Miller]

Is there any level of, I don't want to say smugness, but some sort of self satisfaction that you guys don't have the problems that a lot of the colleges across the country do? Even putting aside the encampments and the riots or anything like that, even just you know, the whole bringing speakers to campus and not having them get shouted down or any kind of the issues that college campuses have really had in the last decade or so. Do you guys feel sort of good.

[Carol Markowitz]

About yourselves that you don't have that?

[Lenovo Representative]

Well, I would say I feel gratitude, you know, nothing but I'm nothing but grateful to be in a place where all of that is true, where the students are good. They, for the most part, read the things you ask them to read. They do the work and so on. We have these amazing speakers come through, and this is an orderly and happy place. There aren't protests, there are not disruptions. We don't have to worry about that kind of thing. I mean, look, people grumble about this and that, but it's a happy place. People like being here. The students like studying here. They're in the middle of nowhere in Michigan. You gotta drive anywhere to get somewhere. They're in the middle of nowhere in Michigan, and they like being here. They like their friends, they like their courses. And then the faculty and staff are happy. I think there are a lot of unhappy campuses in America, people who are disgruntled. They're kind of putting up with an awful lot because they don't know what else to do. Hills is a happy place. People want to come here and be here. And so I'm grateful for that.

[John J. Miller]

I love that. Well, switching gears, you were recently in my state and you went on a little trip to Key west that you wrote up for National Review. Do you want to tell our listeners about it?

[Lenovo Representative]

So I've been working and writing for National Review for more than 25 years now. And we just did a big overhaul. The magazine recently, where we went from, we were coming out every two weeks. Now it's a monthly magazine. Of course, it's a big online operation at the same time. And when the magazine did a redesign, we introduced a new column called Our Spacious Skies. And the idea is, among all of the articles on politics and policy and who's up and who's down and what's right for America and all that kind of stuff. We want to have a space where we have a reported piece from America about some interesting part of American culture or history a writer goes and explores, and doesn't need to mention Trump or anything like that. Just give us a flavor of something that's happening in America. And so I've done this a couple of times. Both reported pieces from Michigan, which I enjoyed. But I recently had a chance to go down to Florida for a business meeting and Then had a few extra days, went down to Key west, which I, I really enjoy. I've always enjoyed trips to Key West.

[John J. Miller]

I've never been there.

[Lenovo Representative]

Go, you're close, you can drive. It's one of the great American drives. Going from Miami to Key West. There's nothing like it. These bridges and causeways, I mean, you feel like you're floating above the Caribbean Sea with these blues and so forth. It's just a gorgeous, gorgeous drive. I don't know anything else like it in the world, but it's certainly one of the great American drives going down to Key West. And then Key west itself is this fascinating blend of like tourist trap and real place. I mean, it has a real history. Ernest Hemingway lived there. Harry Truman has a little white house there. There's a Civil War fort called the Zachary Taylor Fort Zachary Taylor. Other things as well, amid kind of a party scene and lots of bars and restaurants and so on. And I've always enjoyed my visits there. It's a unique American place. But the thing I did on this trip which was different is I enjoyed Key west, but I went to the Dry Tortugas, which are a set of keys, you know, small islands about 70 miles west. And you can only get there, you know, the drive ends. Mile zero is in Key West. You can only get to this place by ferry or seaplane. And in the Dry Tortugas is a massive Civil War era fort called Fort Jefferson. It is the largest brick structure in the United States. It was and was built and it, it still is, even though the thing is crumbling. It's something like 16 million bricks in this place. Gigantic thing. I've always wanted to go. And this time I said, you know what? I'm going to go and I'm going to write it up for our spacious guys for this column. And so my wife and I went, we got on a ferry, went out there and you know, it's a full day thing. You go in the early morning, you get some hours on the key, exploring the fort and so forth, and then you come back and it was just a wonderful. I've been thinking about this for years and it's so great to go to a place you've been imagining and then see what it's really like. And it's a grand ruin. It's this crumbling structure. The National Park Service runs it right now and they do restore it, but there are a lot of damaged areas and so forth and falling apart. And there's a weird beauty to it as well. There's these long Corridors with arches and beautiful symmetries. If you're a photographer, you can really try and do some interesting shots there. And then of course, there's the real history about this fort, which was built to protect American coasts and commerce and then participate in the Civil War. You know, the enemies became fellow Americans.

[John J. Miller]

Right.

[Lenovo Representative]

And so it was important in the naval blockade and so on. And one of the interesting bits of history is that Dr. Mudd wound up going there. This is the guy who treated John Wilkes Booth in the hours after the shooting of Abraham Lincoln. Booth flees Washington, shows up at the door of Dr. Mudd and has his broken leg set. And there's a big. Was arrested as one of the conspirators. And there's been a big controversy about whether he was really a conspirator or whether he was a victim of overzealous federal prosecutors. You know, spoiler alert. He actually was a conspirator.

[John J. Miller]

He was. Ooh, that was spoiler alert. I was like, no, that guy, he's just a doctor.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah. He knew John Wilkes Booth ahead of time. And they had, they had, they had made some, you know, they knew each other. There's a reason John Wilkes Booth went there. At any rate, he was not sentenced to death the way some of the Lincoln conspirators were. He was sent to this fort, which had become a prison for a lot of soldiers who had deserted and court martialed and that kind of thing. He spent a couple, you know, three, four years there, treat some victims. When there was a yellow fever outbreak and eventually President Andrew Johnson pardoned him, which was, you know, we've always had controversial pardons and this was, this was one of them. But it's just a fascinating piece of history attached to this place as well. So I was able to go there, which is just, you know, as a place I've been thinking about for a long time. It was just a pleasure to go and see and then, and then to work in these bits of history.

[John J. Miller]

Well, I loved your piece on it. It sounds like it really lived up to your expectations, which I think is not always the case. When you, like envision something for a long time and then you go see it. I think a lot of times I don't want to say the Alamo, but I feel like the Alamo for some people might be that where they picture it in their head and they get there, it's not quite.

[Lenovo Representative]

Well, it's kind of small, right?

[John J. Miller]

You get there, it's like recently and.

[Lenovo Representative]

It'S like surrounded by big buildings, right? You know, I remember the first time I went to Mount Rushmore, which is a great place. Everybody should go. Beautiful in the Black Hills. I remember this. Like, I thought it'd be bigger. My first reaction.

[John J. Miller]

Yeah.

[Lenovo Representative]

So. So I don't want to say I was disappointed. I was thinking, that's interesting, right? But, but this, this was, this was, this was, this was a great trip. And, and, and I'm, I've. I was happy to write it up.

[John J. Miller]

My real thing about the Alamo is a lot of people use it for, like, shorthand, fortifying something. Like it's gonna be fortified, like the Alamo or whatever. And now that I have a history buff son, I'm like, hey, do you guys know everybody dies at the end? Yeah.

[Lenovo Representative]

Didn't turn out well for the first.

[John J. Miller]

I don't feel like that's a well known fact.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, yeah. Remember the Alamo?

[John J. Miller]

Remember I wasn't really sure what we were remembering there.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah.

[John J. Miller]

Here's what you need to remember, that everyone's dead. Well, so what do you worry about? What is your, like, I guess, overarching concern? It could be about anything, Carol.

[Lenovo Representative]

I worry about whether the Detroit Red Wings are gonna make the Stanley cup playoffs this year.

[John J. Miller]

Do you think they are?

[Lenovo Representative]

I don't know. I mean, I have a serious answer, but it's actually something I spent a lot of time worrying about, you know, watching the games, checking the standings and so on, you know.

[John J. Miller]

When did they last win?

[Lenovo Representative]

Yesterday.

[John J. Miller]

No, I mean the whole thing.

[Amica Insurance Representative]

Oh.

[Lenovo Representative]

Oh.

[John J. Miller]

I'm new to hockey. I just know Florida won last year.

[Lenovo Representative]

Okay. Yes. Congrats to the Panthers. Yeah, they've won four times since 1997. So they had a long draft and they were really good for about 12 years or so, or 15 years. And then they've been shut out of the playoffs for a while, but maybe this year. So fingers crossed. But I do have. I do have a. I spent a lot of time worrying about the Red Wings, but what I really worry about, worry about my kids. And that's a conventional thing to say, I suppose everybody worries about their kids. The new part of this for me is that mine are grown. They're all out of the house, they've graduated college, they're off in the world, they have jobs, they're all doing fine, too. But when you're a parent and you have little kids, you're worried about them all the time. I mean, I'm not a worry wart, but you want to make sure the 3 year old doesn't run into the street or is the 16 year old gonna drive home okay, tonight? You know, maybe on the icy streets, you know, you have those ordinary worries and then, then relief when it all works out. But what I've discovered is you just don't stop worrying. And you know, little kids, you know, little kids, little worries, right. Big kids, like it's adult worries. And now again, I'm not a worry word. I don't spend all my time, you know, helicoptering them or anything like that. But I think about will they, will they flourish in their jobs, Will they find their vocation, how can I help? How can I do it without meddling? Yeah, you spend a lot of time thinking about that. And so, so, and they don't even know it, right. I mean, it's one, you know, it's an aspect of love. I suppose this is why you don't.

[John J. Miller]

Want them to know it.

[Lenovo Representative]

No, not really. And see, one of the things that occurs to me is like my own parents were the same way and you know, they're gone now. I can't talk to them about this. But I now, you know, on reflection, sort of at moments as they, you know, when they did things or said certain things like, gosh, they were just worried, you know, in the best kind of way, I suppose. And so that's what I worry about. And I didn't quite expect that it would be that way. And yet there it is. And I suppose, you know, I'm going to worry about them until I go. And you know, they're old people themselves. Maybe they'll have grandkids to worry about at some point.

[John J. Miller]

But that should be fun.

[Lenovo Representative]

But, you know, you never stop worrying about your kids. I figured out.

[John J. Miller]

I also feel like maybe just based on grandparent interactions I've seen you don't worry about your grandkids in quite the same way. It's sort of like you trust your kids to handle what you know.

[Lenovo Representative]

The joke. One of the things about grandkids is you can hand them back, right? I heard a joke, Dick Armey, the old member of Congress, first person I remember telling this joke. He said, you know what grandparents and grandchildren have in common, don't you? They have a common enemy, so they get along really well. So anyway, we'll see about that.

[John J. Miller]

I like that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we're allowed to quote Bill Cosby, but Bill Cosby had one where he said that he wasn't raised by the same person as his kid's grandmother because that's just an old woman trying to get into heaven.

[Lenovo Representative]

That's about right.

[John J. Miller]

Yeah, definitely. We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Of do it again?

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, so that's. That's a tougher one because I'm not sure I want to tell my 16 year old self anything in the sense that I'm kind of pleased with how things turned out. And I'm enough of a science fiction nerd having read all these novels and so forth, especially when I was 16 to to beware of time travel and the way that yeah, you change something, you mess up the future. Right. And, and there, there are lots of things I can imagine saying to my 16 year old self to like, you know, fix something that I. But you know, life is full of accidents and, and a lot of the best things come out of the bad things. And, and, and, and part of me is just like, I'm not gonna tell that kid a thing because it's gonna be okay. It's gonna work out. And, you know, what am I gonna do? Like invest in Apple? You know, I mean, it's like that's.

[John J. Miller]

Not a bad one though.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, not a bad one. But, you know, that would have changed everything and maybe for the worse. I mean, having money is not the best thing. Having money, especially when you're young, can be a kind of curse. And if I'd had a lot of money when I was young, I wouldn't have worked as hard. Probably wouldn't be at Hillsdale today. You know, all the things that I love about my life right now that I'm. They might go away if I were to say something to my. Try and, you know, change the future in a sense. And I'm reminded of, you know, one of those books I read when I was young. I read Ray Bradbury and he has these great short stories. And one was called A Sound of Thunder and it's a time travel story where the ideas that this company has figured out how to do time travel and if you're a hunter, you can go back in time and hunt a T. Rex. You can go and shoot a T. Rex. Like this can be your, you know, your trophy animal. And the idea is, you know, they'll figure out, they'll go find the T. Rex that's about to die anyway, so that if you shoot it, you won't change the future. Right. But you can have this experience where you'll go and hunt the T. Rex. Like, what more could a hunter ever want to do than that, right? So they send this group of hunters back in time, they've identified, you know, tagged the T. Rex that they're going to get or whatever, and they send them back in time and they're like, you know, don't step off the path. You know, all these other things you got to do. Of course, one guy steps off the.

[John J. Miller]

Path, one guy always ruins it.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, they do get the T. Rex and then they come back into the, you know, the present time where they're going to brag about having shot the T. Rex and everything's different. They live in a Fascist society. The people. English is different. It's, it's spelled differently, people speak differently. Everything has changed. And they're like, you know, what happened? And as, as, as they're undressing one guy, the guy stepped off the path, looks at the bottom of his shoe, his boot or whatever, and there's a dead butterfly. And, you know, so the idea is, the idea is he stepped on that butterfly and that's what changed the future. So it's a goofy idea, but it's typical Ray Bradbury. It's well told, it's entertaining, and it deals with this sort of interesting concept that it's speculative and so forth. It's about time travel.

[John J. Miller]

I love that, I love that answer. Because a lot of people do say, buy apple.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah. So I just don't want to go tell my 16 year old self to go do something. Go step on the butterfly then.

[John J. Miller]

Yeah.

[Lenovo Representative]

So that's, that's my answer. I do, I do. A fun answer though.

[John J. Miller]

But I would also just add that it's also because, you know, I'm very Russian superstitious, so touch wood.

[Carol Markowitz]

But it's because you love your life.

[John J. Miller]

It's, you know, a lot of people have a lot of things they would tell their 16 year old self because they would want to change some outcomes.

[Lenovo Representative]

And I've been fortunate.

[John J. Miller]

That really does show something.

[Lenovo Representative]

I have a lot of blessings and I've had a. I've been fortunate and I just don't want to mess that up. And I guess that's part of the conservatism in me, right? The small C conservatism. But I do have a fun. I have a fun answer too, Carol.

[John J. Miller]

All right, tell me. I thought the shooting the T. Rex was the fun answer, but okay, if.

[Lenovo Representative]

You'Re gonna say like, if you're gonna say like that's a cop out, you have to say something. You have to give some kind of advice. Here's what I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say to my 16 year old self that in the near future you're gonna hear about this band called Nirvana and you're really gonna like Nirvana when you're in college and you're gonna have a ticket to see them play in a small Detroit nightclub on the Nevermind tour. And you're not gonna go to that concert because you have the gre. The next morning you're thinking about grad school and how you need a good night's sleep.

[John J. Miller]

Wow. Responsible.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, exactly.

[John J. Miller]

You should go to the concert, but.

[Lenovo Representative]

Maybe a little too responsible. So I'm gonna say my seats. I'm gonna say, go to the concert.

[John J. Miller]

You actually don't have as many opportunities as you think you will.

[Lenovo Representative]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, at the time, I actually thought, well, I'll just see him on the next tour.

[John J. Miller]

Right, Right. Because why wouldn't you? Yeah.

[Lenovo Representative]

And, well, that never happened. Or at least I didn't have a chance. So that's what I'd say. Go to the. Go to the show.

[John J. Miller]

I love that. I have loved this conversation. Really one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. And I actually don't say that, so I really, really mean it. Leave us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

[Lenovo Representative]

So part of me wants to say, find faith, marry well, that kind of thing, but I'm going to say something a little bit different. I'm going to say, go to the sources. And here's what I mean by that. Because I run a journalism program, people are often asking me, how should I consume the news? How can I become a good reader of the news? And the thing I'm always saying, well, how do you get your news? And I read what's on Twitter, on social media, whatever, and that's it. And you can turn Twitter into a really good news feed. I mean, we kind of get the Twitter we deserve, right?

[John J. Miller]

Yeah, we really do.

[Lenovo Representative]

You can make it into something great, which is full of funny pet videos and sports scores and interesting news and commentary, whatever. You can, you can, but it's not sufficient. And if. If you're gonna. If you're gonna get all of your news this way, you are just basically a slave to the algorithm. You're letting big tech decide for you what the news is and what you're gonna hear about it. And so I'm always saying, go to the sources, go to the. Find the publications that you love and that you trust, go read those websites, make that a part of what you do as you gain news and information about the world. And use Twitter, by all means. But I start my day, I read several newspapers, going to the websites, reading newspapers. I miss the days of actual newspapers you can spread out in front of you and read in print. I'm old enough to miss all that.

[John J. Miller]

I think. They still have those.

[Lenovo Representative]

They still do. I still get a couple. But I'm online doing this and going to the sources. And look, journalism today is. What I say is, it's never been worse and it's never been better. I mean, the media is full of lies and misinformation. And ignorance. It's horrible. The media is a gigantic, horrible cesspool on the one hand. On the other hand, some of the very finest journalists are at work today. And it's never been easier for people to get news and information than it is right now. You can read newspapers in other cities, you can read newspapers from on the other side of the planet. We have this ability to do this kind of thing. So go out and get it. Go out and find that information. Don't let the algorithm feed it to you. Don't take what they are giving you. Go find the writers you love, the, the publications you trust, and go to their sites and see what they're giving you every morning, every week. However, whatever frequency you want to use, go to them, go to the sources and find out for yourself rather than having someone feed you your diet.

[John J. Miller]

That's great. Fight that algorithm. Thank you so much. He is John J. Miller. Check out all of his writing. Such a fantastic person. Get all his books also. I didn't get to talk about that, but he's written many books and he's just fantastic. Check him out. John Jeff, Jay Miller, thanks so much.

[Lenovo Representative]

Carol, thanks for having me on the show. I love what you do.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Lenovo Representative]

Lenovo Lenovo.

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