Karol Markowicz Show: Understanding Sexuality and Its Misconceptions with Dr. Logan Levkoff

Summary

Summary of "Karol Markowicz Show: Understanding Sexuality and Its Misconceptions with Dr. Logan Levkoff"

Release Date: April 2, 2025
Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Host: Premiere Networks
Episode Title: Karol Markowicz Show: Understanding Sexuality and Its Misconceptions with Dr. Logan Levkoff

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1. Introduction to Dr. Logan Levkoff ([07:22] - [07:55])

The episode features Dr. Logan Levkoff, a renowned sexuality educator and host of the show "The Sexy Side of Zionism" on Izzy Stream Israel TV. Carol Markowitz welcomes Logan, highlighting her unique role in bridging sexuality education with her cultural and political passions.

2. Defining Sexuality Education ([07:55] - [08:45])

Carol Markowitz: "Does everyone need a sexuality educator?"

Logan Levkoff: "Personally, I mean, yes, obviously, right."

Logan elaborates on her early beginnings as a peer HIV and AIDS educator at age 15. Raised in a household deeply involved in HIV awareness, she discovered her aptitude for facilitating uncomfortable conversations. This skill propelled her into designing and implementing sex education programs, consulting for organizations, and contributing to media discussions on sexuality and healthy relationships.

3. Logan’s Career Journey and Parental Support ([08:45] - [11:11])

Logan shares her motivation to shift from law to sexuality education after observing her peers' struggles with sexual equity and self-expression. Facing skepticism from her parents about her unconventional career choice, she explains how their support was pivotal:

Logan Levkoff: "I was really good at talking about things that made other people uncomfortable. That’s a skill."

She attributes her confidence and voice to her upbringing, emphasizing that her parents valued her ability to speak up and be fearless. This foundation enabled her to navigate and succeed in a field that was, at the time, virtually unknown.

4. Misconceptions About Sexuality ([11:15] - [12:12])

Logan Levkoff: "Sexuality is not like a switch that gets flipped... it’s made up of all the things that make us who we are."

Logan addresses widespread misunderstandings, clarifying that sexuality is a continuous and multifaceted aspect of human identity. She criticizes society's rigid notions of "normalcy," arguing that such constraints hinder emotional and sexual fulfillment. By embracing the fluidity of sexuality, individuals can achieve a more authentic and satisfying life.

5. The Intersection of Zionism and Sexuality ([12:12] - [16:07])

Logan introduces her unique focus on the "sexy side of Zionism," intertwining her Jewish and Zionist values with her work in sexuality education. She emphasizes the importance of moral clarity, resilience, and self-empowerment as inherently attractive qualities.

Logan Levkoff: "Being able to stand up for yourself, to be empowered by your voice... resilience is sexy."

She discusses the creation of her show "The Sexy Side of Zionism," which aims to humanize and enrich the perception of Zionism by highlighting personal stories and the vibrant culture of Israel. Logan believes that showcasing the multifaceted nature of Zionism can combat anti-Semitism and foster a deeper understanding among diverse audiences.

6. Addressing Anti-Semitism and Its Impact on Youth ([21:49] - [25:47])

Logan delves into the pervasive issue of anti-Semitism, particularly its effects on the younger generation. She expresses deep concern for her nearly 20-year-old and 16-year-old children, who have grown up amid constant anti-Semitic incidents.

Logan Levkoff: "I worry that this generation does not have the skills to have emotionally intimate, sexually intimate relationships... because they’re so connected via social media and phones and filters."

She highlights the challenges faced by young people today, including the erosion of authentic communication due to social media and the prevalence of trigger warnings that discourage facing discomfort. Logan underscores the importance of resilience and self-awareness in navigating these societal pressures.

7. Relationship and Sexual Intimacy ([17:09] - [19:39])

The conversation shifts to the critical role of sexual intimacy in relationships. Logan defends her stance that sex is the "most important part of a relationship," distinguishing it from friendship and emphasizing its role in fostering deep connections.

Logan Levkoff: "If physical intimacy and connection to a partner beyond just friendship is important, then yes, of course. Sexual intimacy and pleasure and good communication are critically important."

However, she acknowledges that excellent sex alone cannot sustain a poor relationship, advocating for a balanced approach where both emotional and physical connections are nurtured.

8. Personal Reflections and Advice ([25:47] - [28:21])

Logan offers heartfelt advice to her listeners, urging them to abandon fairy-tale notions of love and embrace realism in their relationships. She stresses the importance of creating one's own path and not conforming to societal or fictional expectations.

Logan Levkoff: "Get rid of the fairy tale... Don't let this idea of what's normal or typical paralyze you emotionally, sexually."

She encourages individuals to focus on personal growth and authentic connections, fostering relationships that are fulfilling and genuine.

Notable Quotes

• Logan Levkoff [07:55]: "I was really good at talking about things that made other people uncomfortable. That’s a skill."
• Logan Levkoff [11:17]: "Sexuality is not like a switch that gets flipped on at some magical time and shut off at a magical time."
• Logan Levkoff [12:12]: "Moral clarity is sexy. Being able to stand up for yourself, to be empowered by your voice."
• Logan Levkoff [17:09]: "Sex is the most important part of a relationship because it’s what separates friendship from relationship."
• Logan Levkoff [25:50]: "Every chapter should be meaningful and be a part of your story and add to the next story that we tell."

Conclusion

Dr. Logan Levkoff's insightful discussion with Carol Markowitz highlights the intricate connections between sexuality, personal identity, and cultural values. By addressing common misconceptions and advocating for authentic, meaningful relationships, Logan provides valuable perspectives for listeners seeking to understand and improve their own lives. Her unique blend of sexuality education and Zionist advocacy offers a compelling narrative on the importance of resilience, self-expression, and genuine connection in today's complex social landscape.

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For more insightful conversations and expert opinions, subscribe to "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show" wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Carol Markowitz]

Hi and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iHeartradio. Last week I talked about the slew of articles about how women are staying single. The tone is very much you go, girl, with quotes on how happy they are and what they're doing. Instead of getting married and having families, they're traveling, they're building businesses or climbing in their careers. They're going to bed at 8pm snuggling their cat because that's what they want to do and no one is there to stop them. I've said on this show before, but all of that, even the early bedtime and the cat could be better and easier in a good relationship. I was a big traveler even before I started dating my husband. But having someone to travel with and combine resources, you know, whether that means money or planning or spending the dull parts of traveling, like the getting their part together and it's better with someone you're into. And I've talked about how my career took off when I got married. I was able to take chances and opportunities that I couldn't take when I was on my own. And that's a frequently missed angle of the whole career or family non debate. And I say non debate. I know people who listen to the show a lot know that I think this because I don't actually believe that anyone is choosing one or the other. As I've said, I think people lean into their career more when they haven't met someone to be with and then it becomes they've chosen career over a spouse when really the choice was kind of made for them. One of the stats I shared last week is the share of women age 18 to 40 who are single that is neither married nor cohabitating with a partner was 51.4% in 2023, according to an analysis of census data by the Aspen Economic Strategy Group. And that number's up from 41.8% in 2000. Now, I tried to find a similar stat for men to see what are men up to? And I came across this one from 2023 that I had seen before and I always find amusing. Among those 18 to 29 years of age, 63% of men versus 34% of women consider themselves single. And I remember when this stat came out and a lot of people were confused. How could it be that 63% of men are single, but only 34% of women are? But anyone familiar with the dating world knows exactly how a woman goes on four dates with a guy and considers him her boyfriend? A man goes on those same four dates and continues dating other people until they specifically have the talk about whether they're going to be exclusive. The man generally assumes they will not be. It's funny, because lately I've seen videos of young people in other countries marveling and kind of mocking Americans about the whole talk thing. Apparently when you go on some dates in France or Italy, you're together and that's it. Of course, those countries are also known for kind of loose standards of monogamy, especially for the men. So while I agree that needing to have that exclusivity talk is silly, at least American couples know where they stand. So I looked and I looked and it doesn't seem that men are getting the same glowy he just wants to stay single and hang out with his friends Soft pieces that single women do that's a tell to me that women are Being lied to A number of years ago my daughter started noticing that there were always shirts for sale that said stuff like Girls rule and girls run the world and it became obvious to her that boys didn't have similar clothing because the clothing aimed at girls was a lie. Or if not a lie, then maybe a fib to prop them up. And that's what's happening now with these articles about amazing singlehood that are only aimed at women. They're being lied to, maybe to make them feel better, but it's a lie nevertheless. Recent show guest Abigail Schreier had a really good piece on romantic comedies and love in general in the Free Press a few days ago ago. I'm going to read kind of a longer clip because I really enjoyed it. She writes. Every story involves daring, chance and above all, serendipity. Love, we are reminded again and again, is ultimately an act of surrender. Which is perhaps why our buy with one click era struggles when it comes to romance, why its technological wizardry invariably comes up short. We shop for mates online like we shop for clothing, determined to call up precisely and exclusively what we've already decided will please us. But real love can't be prime delivered like toilet paper. The precondition for romance, and especially of marriage, is our willingness to move beyond consumption to shift our focus from I need a foodie who loves rock climbing to imagining what you might give to another and create together. Sally and she's talking about When Harry Met. Sally would never have matched with Harry on hinge height alone would likely have pre weeded him. He of slim build and average looks, nothing like the boyfriend who couldn't commit to marrying her tall, agreeable blonde newcaster Handsome Joe. But rom coms exist to remind us that we don't know everything, not even about what we need. And that intimacy, like humor, involves surprise. Which also means we must be open to finding someone who isn't simply a reflection of ourselves. End quote. I love that. And that's what women and men need to be told. Love is amazing and you should want to find it. You can still travel and girl boss and have a cat and all of that will be better with someone. Thanks for listening. Coming up, my interview with Logan Lefkoff. But first, after more than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel, the need for security essentials and support for first responders is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire. Israel must be prepared for the next attack, wherever it may come from, as Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides. The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and will continue to support the people of Israel with life saving security essentials. Your gift today will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles and ambulances, firefighting equipment, flak jackets and bulletproof vests, and so much more. Your generous donation today will help ensure the people of Israel are safe and secure in the days to come. Give a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting supportifcj.org that's one word. Supportifcj.org or call 888-488-IFCJ. That's 888488 IFCJ. 888-488-4325.

[Logan Lefkoff]

Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Logan Lefkoff, a sexuality educator and host of a show called the Sexy side of Zionism on Izzy Stream Israel tv. Hi, Logan, So nice to have you on.

Hi, Carol. It's so nice to see you sort of in person.

Yeah, sort of in person. We've never met in person, but we have to rectify that. But I have to start off with what is a sexuality educator? And does everyone need one?

Personally, I mean, yes, obviously, right. I started in this field. I was a 15 year old peer HIV and AIDS educator. I came of age, you know, I grew up on Long island at a time when HIV was being talked about as a virus that didn't discriminate. And so for whatever reason, my parents became super involved in HIV and AIDS awareness and fundraising, even though we had no, like, real personal connection. And I came home after school one day and there were condoms and bananas on my dinner table. And my parents said, okay, next week you go to become a Peer educator and to teach others. And I said, okay. And what I. What I learned was that I was really good at talking about things that made other people uncomfortable. And I went on, that's a skill.

That's a real skill.

Yeah, thank you. I mean, I. I don't know. I guess I was just mouthy enough and had a big enough ear to think like I could do anything, so didn't seem to stop that line of thinking. So I wound up. I really. I went to college thinking I was going to be a lawyer. I went to the University of Pennsylvania, which, you know, I'm so proud of these. So proud. And I found myself watching my friends and I like smart and sophisticated women making the shittiest decisions about sex. And it wasn't like the no protection question, like, issue. It was no equity. We didn't know how to speak up for ourselves. We didn't understand our own bodies. And I just thought, there has to be a better way. And I called my parents and said, I'm not. I'm not going to law school. I'm going to get my master's. And then eventually a PhD in this field that no one knew existed. And they said, what are you going to do with it? I said, I don't know. I don't know, but I'm going to do something. And so really nowadays, or at least for the last three decades, I design and implement sex ed programs at a lot of schools. I've done a lot of consulting with organizations. I did a lot of work in the media and in the space of sexuality and healthy relationships. And now I don't. I don't know what I do. But clearly difficult conversations is a wheelhouse.

So it's interesting because normally if you call your parents and say, I'm really into sex and I'm going to pursue this as a career path, I don't know, A lot of parents might not be happy with that, but your parents seem like they almost like, you know, kind of led you in that direction.

I think my parents were. They were definitely blindsided that this was going to be.

They were okay.

I mean, they didn't know.

Did the bananas and the condoms, the. Not like.

No, I just. They just felt like this. We are in the middle of, like a global health crisis, and so we're gonna do our part in our own.

That's really.

Which is amazing. It was definitely amazing. And I also think that my parents knew, know still that the. The person I am today, for all of the good and sometimes not good, is very Much a result of being raised to have a voice and to use it and to be fearless. And so I'm sure there are times they think, what did, what did we do? And then also they're very proud too.

What do people misunderstand about sex?

Everything. They misunderstand.

Start at the beginning, tell us everything.

So I think that what most people misunderstand is that sexuality is not like a switch that gets flipped on at some magical time and shut off at a magical time that, you know, we have a sexuality from birth to death. It's made up of all of the things that make us who we are. So, you know, sure. Our anatomy and gender, the way we express ourselves, the roles we play in relationships, who we're attracted to, what we like to do. And we express that differently throughout our, throughout our lives. And that there is, I think, the biggest issue becomes in a world where we are so consumed with, with what it means to be normal, to realize that there is no one, one way to be normal when it comes to your sexuality. I think fear of being normal prevents us from feeling fulfilled, whether that's emotionally or sexually or, or intellectual even.

So where does Zionism come in? What's the sexy side of Zionism? How do they, how do they intersect?

I know it's, it's really, I mean.

I think Zionism sexy, but I don't feel like that's necessarily the popular opinion.

Apparently not, but I too find it very sexy. So I am a very, very proud Zionist. I am the granddaughter and great daughter of great granddaughter of American Zionist leaders. The sense of connection to Israel, to our story, to self determination was a huge part of who I was throughout my, my life. And I would say that, you know, anytime someone like offensively says you should stick to talking about sex, my answer is always, my Zionist and Jewish values inform everything I do in my professional life. I can't separate them. So, you know, as in the last couple of years, and I'm sorry, I don't want this to be long winded, but it might be. So I tell us, go ahead. Yeah, obviously, you know, in the last, you know, I mean, decade, sure, but in the last five years, spaces that have been historically progressive, mainly my own field, have, let's just say, turned out to be raging anti Semites. And so what I, what I decided to do years ago was just be unapologetically Zionist. And it wasn't like I ever hit that part of who I was, but I didn't realize I had to lead with it. And so I've I've made my platform very much unapologetically Jewish, unapologetically Zionist, and you know, Israel, as if. By the way, I've never heard of any other place where you're like pro or anti.

Right? Who's pro France or like pro Italy, you know, it just, it makes no sense.

Yeah, ridiculous. And the, the sexy side of Zionism came about, to be honest, because my media life, my TV life kind of took a. Well, died, died in the last couple of years, right around the time I started speaking out very publicly about Israel. I don't, I, you know, it might be a chicken egg question. It might be a very big coincidence. I don't know. Yeah, but this, this space that I love to play in was not really calling me anymore. And I had an opportunity to meet the CEO of Izzy Stream Israel tv Nazi Dinar. And he said, do you want to do something on TV again? And I said yes. And he said, do you want to like talk about what you love and Israel? I'm like, yes. And so we came up with the sexy side of Zionism. It's been amazing because, yes, Zionism is sexy, right? As some of my guests have said, moral clarity is sexy. Right. Being able to stand up for yourself, to be empowered by your voice and.

Your story is knowing who you are.

Yeah, resilience is sexy. So, yeah, there seems to be a very nice connection.

So what are the episodes like?

So the episodes are basically a conversation which always starts off with why is Zionism sexy? You know, we start with, like, to use the sex term, the money shot first piece that we just established. And then people get to tell their own story, their own journey, not just about Zionism, but how they found their voice, how they got to where they are. And then the part that I really, really love is every, I get everyone's hot takes on Israel. So everything from your favorite Hebrew word to your favorite, you know, music, to your favorite place in Israel, to what's the best thing about Israelis or the one thing that everyone should know about Israel. And for the people who have never been, or the people who haven't been in a long time, it's a way sort of bring them in and to remind people that there is a world beyond this absurd, like one sided lens that we, we see every day. So it's been a journey.

It's a very sexy place. Everybody looks really good and it's just, it's, you know, warm weather and the beach and it's, it's, it's really a wonderful, wonderful place.

So, Carol, I have to tell you that I would say of the 10 to 12 interviews that are basically in the can, 90% of maybe 100%, everyone says, I don't know if I could say this. Israelis are just really hot.

Yeah.

I said, don't be ashamed. Everyone says that, and it's not untrue. It's 100% interesting.

We're going to take a quick break and be right back on the Carol Markowitz Show. So I've written about sex in my life. I mean, I, you know, my columns at the Post, I've written about all kinds of, you know, social things, friendship and marriage. And when I've written about sex, I remember I had one article and I. This was a big one for me, but it was because I got a lot of. It was passed around a lot. Obviously anything sex related is always going.

To be kind of popular.

But my argument was that sex is the most important part of a relationship. And I've done monologues on this show about that also. And people hate that because they're like, no. What about honesty? What about connection? What about. I'm not saying it's the only important part of a relationship. That's crazy. Why would I say that? I'm saying it's the most important part of a relationship because it's what separates friendship from relationship. Is that generally your take as well, or are you going to argue with me?

No, I'm not going.

I love argument. Let's go.

[Carol Markowitz]

No.

[Logan Lefkoff]

Have you seen me online? I love to argue. It's my favorite job. I would say this, that I think the first thing we, everyone needs to establish is what kind of relationship that they want throughout their lives. Like what, what is important. However, if physical intimacy and connection to a partner beyond just friendship is important, then yes, of course. Sexual intimacy and pleasure and good communication so that everyone gets out of sex what they want is critically important. That being said, great sex cannot sustain a crappy relationship in the long run. Just about sex. But sex, if it's not good, if there's not a connection, then it becomes overwhelmingly big part of your relationship.

So the reverse of that for me is, could crappy sex be okay? Like, can you live with that in, in a great relationship? And I, I think, no, I, I don't know. I, I think that then you have a really great friendship and not, you know, not the, the relationship part.

But I don't think you are wrong. I think that that pleasure.

Go become a sex therapist, because I'll do it.

I mean, please, please we need smart, smart, ethical people in our field these days. So the more the merrier. I do think that it is really hard to be in a relationship where there is bad sexual and physical intimacy and maybe not in the beginning, like, of someone's relationship trajectory where maybe they're deciding on kids and there's a lot of other stressors, but it's some point when everyone unloads the baggage of, like, what it means to, like, live a fairy tale life, whatever B.S. that means. Yeah. The sex part kicks in and people remember, oh, wait, enjoy that. Yeah, this is good. And this is important. Need this. And so if I'm not getting it, then we need to figure out how to kind of make all parties fulfilled.

Yeah. What was the plan B if you didn't go into this field?

Law school, I guess.

Law school. Any particular, like, branch?

No. So I think that might be a lie. I didn't. And maybe this is. Maybe this is my MO which might be a problem. I don't really ever have a plan B. I just assume plan A, Plan.

A is going to work. Yeah.

And I. And I run with it. It may not be the most strategic strategy, but I never really thought about what, what if it didn't work. My parents asked me, what are you going to do with this career? And I thought, I don't know, but I'll just figure it out. And I was at this moment when in The, I guess, late 90s, early 80s, there weren't a lot of us in the space. It was the early days of the Internet. Like, once you got on a TV show, your voice was out there and other people called and the field wasn't crowded. So I like to think I was. Am really good at what I do. But also I recognized it was this moment in time too, that gave me an opportunity to find. To find a public voice because there was no career path. I had no idea what this career was going to look like. All I know is that I was a grad school student on the Howard Stern show, and the taxi driver I was in recognized my voice from the show. And I thought, this is the weirdest thing ever.

That's awesome. There's this saying, I'll either find a way or make one. It just sounds like you made one for yourself.

I think so. I think I'm. I think I'm continuing to do that as I. I'm in this weird space now professionally, where I'm so angry so many times that the people who I thought were my peers, my professional peers and friends and Now I have this other chapter of my life which I think, and I, I know, I find so meaningful that I was kind of made for this moment. So maybe the plan A was always, you're gonna have lots of difficult conversations. Maybe the conversation, the matter is just going to change over time.

What do you worry about?

I really worry for my kids and all of our kids, I should say, not just my own. I have an almost 20 year old and an almost 16 year old.

Wow.

I worry that you don't look old.

Enough to have a 20 and a 16 year old.

Oh, thank you. Good dermatology.

That's right. I'll get that number from you after.

Anytime. I worry there are a few aspects to what I worry about and not them as individuals, but generationally speaking, I worry that they, because of these weird years in a pandemic without intimacy, without taking emotional and physical risks, that this generation does not have the skills to have emotionally intimate, sexually intimate relationships and be able to communicate about them. Especially because they're so connected via social media and phones and filters and, you know, other ways of being inauthentic. I worry about that. I worry about the fact that this is a generation of trigger warnings where we're like warning people like, you're about to be uncomfortable, so avoid discomfort. I don't think that's a healthy space. I don't, I mean, look, as Jews, we've, we've never really been afforded a trigger warning. So I feel like it's just unfair.

Yeah, we just walk right into it.

Over and over and over over again. So there is, there's that piece of it. And then of course, realistically from the anti Semitism space, I really feel, I feel for our kids who, and I speak from personal experience, who, my kids have never had a day where they haven't had to deal with something. And I feel so badly that they wear armor every single day and don't know what it's like to take that off. To always have to be ready for something, for a fight. So unfortunately, to not know if your peers or your friends are really your friends or not, I just, that's, that's what I worry about, that we are, it is such a sad position for our young people to be in.

That's so tough. I, I mean, I, I, I guess I knew that that was the case for a lot of people, but it's just hearing that, it's, it's really a hard place to be and I hope you're, I hope they're doing okay with it. And I hope you are also.

Yeah, thank you. I mean, I will say obviously our family story at my son's school was very public. It was in the post a year ago.

I'm sorry, I don't know it. Tell me.

Yeah, no, my son graduated from Fieldston in May of 23. And so we dealt with an anti Semitic incident basically every year of high school that we were very much like all in. And my son is this incredible voice and knows how to be a leader and knows how to fight even when the stakes are high. And we just had incident after incident. So to be honest, he was very, very prepared for college like this.

Right.

Whatever is happening now.

Yeah, you should be teaching workshops, actually.

I mean, it's, it's. I can laugh about it now just because I don't think we have another alternative, but we've, we've been, we've been down this road before, so, so, you know, they, they, they get it and, and I think I've always given them a healthy dose of identity and who they are and to keep your head on a swivel. That's sort of how I was raised. I don't understand everyone's life.

It's still unfair that they have to deal with it, but I get it. You're giving them the foundation at home and the basis for everything that they're going to encounter in their lives.

Yes. And I feel badly that in this day and age, college kids, I mean, depending on where you are, more or less, but there's, I don't think there's any place that's totally immune to this stuff that they don't ever really get a day of being like a dumb 19 year old. Ever.

Yeah, it's not fair. No, not really.

I don't find it fair at all.

What advice would you give your 16 year old self?

I would tell my 16 year old self that this is not the best time of your life. Not because it was terrible, just because every chapter should be a meaningful chapter and when the chapter ends, it's time for a new one. And that's a good thing. I think a lot of us spend time in the past thinking that this was the best moment and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be the best moment. Every chapter should be meaningful and be a part of your story and add to the, to the next story that we tell.

16 is pretty good though. That, that was a good chapter. You're not really worried about that many things. You're like, you know, living with your parents that your life is mostly taken care of for you. It's not the, you know, I get it. It's only got better since then, But I liked 16.

[Carol Markowitz]

It was.

[Logan Lefkoff]

No, I mean, I like 16, too. Although I. I don't think I would want to. Well, I know for sure I would not want to be 16 today.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Logan Lefkoff]

I think social media, worst thing ever. I would hate, hate, hate. I. I tell my students all the time. I tell my own kids. I. I made plenty of mistakes. Plenty of things. Like I. Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

And you'll never hear about them because.

[Logan Lefkoff]

There are no pictures.

No, there are no pictures. And also, if someone knew about it, it was because they were there and they weren't saying anything.

Right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I've loved this conversation. I think you're just awesome.

[Carol Markowitz]

You do such great work and you.

[Logan Lefkoff]

Have such an interesting point of view. I think that everything that you say is very unique. End us here with your best tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

I would tell your listeners to get rid of the fairy tale. I am very much a realist. I'm not a romantic. That doesn't mean I don't like romance. But I feel like these stories we were told throughout our lives set us up for failure. So that when a challenge is in our midst, we don't know what to do with it. And if we veer off a certain path, we think there's something wrong with us as opposed to maybe thinking that there was something wrong with the story. And so don't let this idea of what's normal or typical paralyze you emotional, sexually. We should be able to chart our own path forward. And who cares if it doesn't look like your neighbor? Who cares if it doesn't look like the book you read? Those are stories or what you imagined for yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah. Very much so.

Love it. She is Logan Levkoff. Check her out. The sexy side of Zionism on Izzy. Follow her on X. Thank you so much for coming on, Logan.

Thank you.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.