← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
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- [00:00]
Ryan Seacrest
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Mary Katherine Ham
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- [02:34]
Mary Katherine Ham
Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I am your host Mary Katherine Camp.
- [02:41]
Carol Markowitz
And I'm Carol Markowitz. How are you Mary Kathryn I'm good.
- [02:44]
Mary Katherine Ham
I'm up in New York City for a bit, doing some Gutfeld show. So you can catch me there. And having a nice day.
- [02:51]
Carol Markowitz
I love it. The Big Apple, huh? I've heard of it.
- [02:55]
Mary Katherine Ham
It's cold and there's good food. That's what's going on.
- [02:57]
Carol Markowitz
That's that. That really does sum it up. So we're gonna kick it off today with a subject that I dread talking about, and that's Ukraine. I almost never tweet about it. I. And it's not because I don't care about it. That's the other thing. I actually probably care about it more than the average person in both Ukraine and in Russia. Actually, my family in Ukraine was older women and they evacuated at the start of the war. I dread this conversation because I have a very middle ground on it, as I think you do as well. And that's not acceptable in this conversation. You have to be all in on one side or another. If you're not a million percent on the side of fund Ukraine until they beat Russia, then that means you're a Putin lover and you want Russia to take over the world and you're probably being paid by them. So there's really no great spot here. And I also feel very strongly that I'm not a Putin lover. And I do have a lot of concerns about Russian influence. And I absolutely think that they invaded Ukraine. That's sort of the new thing is. Well, Ukraine started it. Like. No, they didn't. Yeah. Having said all that, I looked up how much money has gone to this and there's a bunch of different numbers floating around. But I tried to go to a fairly left wing source, so I went to the BBC. The United States has spent 119.7 billion on aid between January 22 and December 24. Russia spent 84 billion in 2023 on their entire military budget. So we are giving Ukraine more than Russia's entire budget. Like most Americans, I wonder how much longer this can go on and what's the point? And I say this again as someone who wants Ukraine to win. I want them to punish Russia for invading. And I think that the American strategic goal was to make sure that Russia doesn't try this with other countries. Right. But one thing that I didn't hear a lot of people say over this weekend after this blow up was that this has been a disaster for Russia. Russia has shown they can't beat even Ukraine. And the people that are sort of arguing that, no, no, Russia's doing really well, it's only because Ukraine gets The funding from Europe and from America. And if they didn't get this funding, well, then Russia would be winning. You know, there's a saying, if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather. So spare me your ifs. They can't beat Ukraine.
- [05:34]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:35]
And that's.
- [05:36]
Carol Markowitz
So that's where I am.
- [05:37]
Mary Katherine Ham
And that's important for the world. The blow up you refer to, unless you've been under a rock, is the conflagration in the Oval Office where many people were in attendance, but principally the fight was between President Trump, Vice President Vance and Zelensky, the president of Ukraine.
- [05:58]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [05:58]
Mary Katherine Ham
And there was a long meeting before that, about 40 minutes, long before it became an argument. And there's a lot of back and forth about who started what I will say just, and I'm not making light of this a serious subject here. I do think the Real Housewives nature of this public blow up means that a lot of Americans who might not otherwise care or notice foreign policy arguments are now noticing them.
- [06:25]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [06:26]
Mary Katherine Ham
And there's a lot of reconstructions about what Zelensky said when. And what Vance said when I am with you. And by the way, when you come to this show, sometimes the normal ish take is not the hot take. Right.
- [06:37]
Carol Markowitz
That's what we're trying to do here. We're trying to do the normalish take. And I think that where we are is, I think, where a lot of people are.
- [06:45]
Mary Katherine Ham
And so I.
- [06:45]
Carol Markowitz
They can't say it because then you get yelled at, like really yelled at.
- [06:48]
Mary Katherine Ham
You do, you do get yelled at. I want everybody to respect the facts on the ground, whether it's warfare or politics. Okay. And some of the facts on the ground are that, for instance, fact Russia invaded Ukraine, that's a ground war in Europe. That's dangerous for the world. Incentivizing that for Russia and not being a leader on this front can be dangerous for the US in some very serious ways.
- [07:12]
Carol Markowitz
That's right.
- [07:13]
Mary Katherine Ham
Another fact, though, is that the politics have shifted on this. One of the reasons the politics have shifted on this is because when it comes to warfare, the American voter's a little worn out.
- [07:24]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [07:24]
Mary Katherine Ham
Iraq, Afghanistan. Having boots on the ground has been exhausting. Many people have paid blood and treasure in their own families and friends circles. They watched us pull out of Iraq, they watched us pull out of Afghanistan with devastating results and said, like what? What are we doing? You're making the argument that we're important to put these forces forward in the world. And then this is the result. Now in Ukraine we have money at stake. We do not have boots on the ground. That's a very important distinction. But people have elected Trump saying, I think, in large part because he talked about this on the trail, saying to him, yes, we think Russia is the bad guy. Ukraine, for the most part, we think is the good guy. You gotta give us specifics on what the ask is here.
- [08:09]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [08:10]
Mary Katherine Ham
That's the part that people need.
- [08:13]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [08:13]
Mary Katherine Ham
And that's the part where it blew up between Zelensky, Trump and Vance was getting to the nitty gritty of are we gonna do the minerals deal? And if we do the minerals deal, which is sort of, to me looks like a down payment on having a discussion about the security assurances.
- [08:30]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [08:31]
Mary Katherine Ham
Then what do those look like? And the specifics of that is where it went off the rails.
- [08:36]
Carol Markowitz
Exactly. And so the other thing is that, you know, one of the things that Trump said during the campaign, he actually said some very pro Ukraine things, including that if Putin doesn't want a deal, then he's going to send more money to Ukraine. I mean, he said that. And so I feel like this idea that, oh, Trump just loves Putin and hates Ukraine, it comes from just hating Trump, which I get people who support Ukraine maybe have some crossover with hating Trump. And you and I talk about this on the show a lot. But there is a way to deal with Trump. And I mean, to say Zelensky has failed at that is kind of an understatement of the century, but he's also just failed at dealing with anyone. I don't know which president sits there as he argues in front of cameras and, you know, kind of berates them. There was a news story that circulated again over the weekend that Zelensky and Biden had had this blow up in private that we didn't get to see in front of the cameras. And obviously, these kinds of things do happen off. Off camera, and this is one that happened on. So, like. Like most Americans, I think you and I are wondering how much longer and what's the point? And the fact that Ukraine has gotten to a stalemate is very impressive.
- [09:55]
Mary Katherine Ham
And, well, and Zelensky makes the point that Ukrainian lives have been lost doing this favor for the world, which is to mess with Russia and sort of reveal its weaknesses. And that's a real thing.
- [10:07]
Carol Markowitz
Sure. But again, they're getting more than Russia's entire military budget, and they haven't been able to push Russia out. So what happens next? And I'm extremely sympathetic to the idea that what did this war, like, what did we fight this war for, from the Ukrainian perspective, only to have to give up lands that we could have given up on day one. I don't know that there's going to be a great answer there, and it's deeply unfortunate and I don't like to see Russia win and all of this can be true, while also saying that there has to be some sort of end game.
- [10:45]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah. There's also, it's interesting to me that this minerals deal, which is. Okay, so the idea from the Trump people is we sign the minerals deal, this gives America an economic stakeholder in the future of Ukraine. And that would a give you some assurances to begin with and then get us to the table to hopefully start talking about assurances. In the meantime, we're not being super, like, forthright about our feelings about Putin so that maybe he would come to the table.
- [11:13]
Carol Markowitz
That's also right.
- [11:15]
Mary Katherine Ham
And then with good reason, Zelensky says, I'm afraid if I sign this minerals deal, I don't get any assurances and that you guys will go to the table with Putin and I'm cut out of it and I end up with a very bad deal. But again, the political ground shifted and it is Zelensky's job to understand what the pitch should be in that room. And I think not being there with the translator.
- [11:39]
Carol Markowitz
Oh, yeah, not such a bad call.
- [11:42]
Mary Katherine Ham
Oh, and just doing it there. There's plenty of other places you could have done it.
- [11:45]
Carol Markowitz
Absolutely.
- [11:45]
Mary Katherine Ham
And then my last weird thing, again, there's. This is like the Baldoni Blake Lively, but foreign policy.
- [11:52]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [11:53]
Mary Katherine Ham
Scott Besant was in Ukraine to sign the minerals deal. He went all the way to Ukraine to do that. They didn't sign it there. Reportedly, Zelensky said, let's sign it in Munich. Rubio and Vance are there. These are big name people. Right. They didn't sign it there. And then he said, come, can I meet you in Washington? Everybody said, sure, let's all get together, sign it there. And it doesn't get signed again. What's going on?
- [12:16]
Carol Markowitz
Right, right. There's obviously more at play here and there's all these. Again, people are so entrenched in their opinions and in sides on this. I, I actually can't believe that this is probably the most contentious issue in America. Maybe it's just on X, but it really is extremely, extremely contentious and a lot of nonsense being spilled all over the place. But I would also just say, so Europe is, you know, deeply disappointed in America and they're very furrowed brow about the whole thing. They went so far as inviting the Canadian leader to come join them for a little pow wow to figure out what they should do next. But let me tell you some numbers from Europe. Denmark says 66% of Danes say that Ukraine is not getting enough Western support. So you'd think how much. How many Danes would say that Denmark should increase their level of support? Only 17% say that they should increase their level of support. These numbers are exactly the same in Sweden, Spain, Britain. Britain has 58%, says the Ukraine is not getting enough Western support, But then only 21% want to increase British support to Ukraine. So they're facing the same problems that we're facing in America, which is the populace is wondering, what is this money going towards? What is the goal here? Is that goal feasible?
- [13:46]
Mary Katherine Ham
And Europe hasn't had to do that in a long time because we do the heavy lifting. That doesn't mean they don't do anything. Yeah, but we do. The US does the heavy lifting. And one of Trump's bugaboos from the minute he took office was, y'all need to start pitching in more. I do worry a little bit about relinquishing US leadership and that when that happens and bad big powers see it, that goes badly for the world in general, even though it is very hard for us to remain leaders and to fork over the money necessary to do that.
- [14:20]
Carol Markowitz
Right. I worry about that, too. But then I look at the other countries and I'm like, who are they going to turn to in a time of crisis? It's going to be right back to us. You know, there was a. There was a thing that circulated recently that was like, Home Depot is worth more than, like, the top 50 European startups of the last 50 years or something. Yeah, you know, it just. I know they're talking, like, really successful startups, but it's like it just.
- [14:46]
Mary Katherine Ham
We have a different level of prosperity.
- [14:49]
Carol Markowitz
Yes, that's it.
- [14:51]
Mary Katherine Ham
We have the monies and the number of hours we work per week and the number of innovations we create. Like, it is a different culture that produces that.
- [15:02]
Carol Markowitz
Well, so I don't know. I don't know who else they would turn to. Yeah. This is no solution. But if you have felt that perhaps you were not represented in either side of the insanity over the last few days, I hope you have found something here that you could agree with. Or we could just part ways, knowing that we haven't solved the problem in your life.
- [15:21]
Mary Katherine Ham
Or you have not. Shall we go to something a little lighter?
- [15:24]
Carol Markowitz
A little lighter? Let's go. Mary Katherine. We'll be right back on normalely during.
- [15:30]
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- [18:31]
Mary Katherine Ham
The Oscars happened, Carol. I'm torn on whether to watch the Oscars or engage at all. I don't watch them live. That's what the Internet's for. But Conan O'Brien was the host. I had watched a handful of the movies this year, maybe not even a handful. That's probably too generous. And I do think the hiring of Conan was a little bit of a vibe shift move because Conan is an absurdist, hilarious, non political.
- [19:02]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [19:03]
Mary Katherine Ham
Comedian.
- [19:04]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [19:04]
Mary Katherine Ham
And I think he made like one Russia joke during the night. It was very low key and very funny. A lot of silly skits and I'm there for that. I feel like Trump gave permission for comedians to just do the thing which is entertain.
- [19:19]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. Permission to be funny again. Yeah. I didn't watch any of it and I don't and I haven't seen any of the movies, but I saw some clips and I thought that it was a more normal Oscars than previous clips have shown. They did, however, start with land acknowledgement by Julian Howe. Right. Huff. Sorry.
- [19:43]
Mary Katherine Ham
Also just like I don't mind Julianne Hough, but it is funny to do a land acknowledgement from the whitest person you could find.
- [19:49]
Carol Markowitz
Well, I would say that the only thing I know about her, I literally could not name anything that she's in. The only thing I know about her is that she did blackface a few years ago. Did she? I didn't know. During Halloween everybody was like, oh, you're not allowed to do that.
- [20:04]
Mary Katherine Ham
No, you're not allowed to do that. I did not know that.
- [20:07]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. So that's my total knowledge of her. And it's always extra funny that she was doing the land acknowledgement, which was really cool.
- [20:15]
Mary Katherine Ham
So I'll run through the big awards. So everybody knows Best Picture is Anora. That's a story. Apparently it's a about a sex worker. I don't know the details. Best actress, Mikey Madison for Anora, and she's a real newcomer. Best actor, Adrien Brody for the Brutalist, which is a Holocaust survivor story. A man who comes to America and becomes an architect here. Best supporting actor, Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain, which is another Holocaust focused drama about two cousins who go to the old country to see the sights. Best supporting actress, Zoe Zeldana. That is Emilia Perez, which is the. That's the movie that sounds like it can't be real, which is about an illegal immigrant inmate who wants to transition and the valiant lawyer who helps her.
- [21:07]
Carol Markowitz
I thought it was like a cartel head.
- [21:09]
Mary Katherine Ham
Oh, yeah, maybe so. And it's a musical.
- [21:13]
Carol Markowitz
It's a musical, right? I've seen Zoe Saldana, like, a little clip of her singing. I want to know about sex changes.
- [21:21]
Mary Katherine Ham
Like, what it is. Truly, truly ridiculous. Best director was the guy who directed Honora. His name is Sean Baker. So those are the major ones. There was a really adorable moment.
- [21:36]
Carol Markowitz
I like this one.
- [21:37]
Mary Katherine Ham
When Kieran Culkin, who won best supporting actor for A Real Pain, took the stage and made a deal with his wife.
- [21:48]
Carol Markowitz
I love it. Let's watch it.
- [21:50]
Ryan Seacrest
I have to thank my wife, Jaz, for absolutely everything. For giving my favorite people in the world. This is. Please don't play the music, because I want to tell a really quick story about Jazz. About a year ago, I was on a stage like this, and I very stupidly, publicly said that I want a third kid from her because she said if I won the award, I would. She would give me the kid. It turns out she said that because she didn't think I was gonna win, but. And people came up to her and were like, you know, really annoying her, I think. I think it got to her. But anyway, after the show, we're walking through a parking lot. She's holding the Emmy. We're trying to find her car. Emily, you were there, so you're a witness. And she goes, oh, God, I did say that. I guess I owe you a third kid. And I turned to her and I said, really? I want four. And she turned to me. I swear to God, this happened. It was just over a year ago. She said, I will give you four when you win an Oscar. I held my hand out, she shook it, and I have not brought it up once until just now. You remember that, honey? You do. Okay, then. I just have this to say to you. Jazz, love of my life, ye of little faith, no pressure. I love you. I'm really sorry I did this again. And let's get cracking on those kids. What do you say?
- [23:03]
Carol Markowitz
You've little faith.
- [23:04]
Mary Katherine Ham
I know. It's so perfect.
- [23:06]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [23:06]
Mary Katherine Ham
That was so sweet. So spontaneous, so cute. And the idea of just like a dude who would like more kids with his wife in Hollywood is sort of unique. Interesting.
- [23:18]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [23:19]
Mary Katherine Ham
I feel like I've been starved for this.
- [23:21]
Carol Markowitz
Right, right. I think a lot of people were, like, surprised by that whole interaction. And usually the guy, you know, forgets to name his wife altogether, and that's the end of that. But, yeah, that was really nice. I like that.
- [23:34]
Mary Katherine Ham
I want them to join the four kid club. As I say, it is the. It's the official number at which people are like, but what's going on with you? And he can just be like, I won an Oscar. That's what's going on with us.
- [23:45]
Carol Markowitz
I'm rich.
- [23:46]
Mary Katherine Ham
There's one more little clip that I'll play, which I just thought was sweet that they did this. They brought LA firefighters to the Oscars and they let him deliver a pretty good joke banger.
- [23:58]
Carol Markowitz
Well, our hearts go out to all.
- [24:00]
Mary Katherine Ham
Of those who have lost their homes.
- [24:02]
Carol Markowitz
And I'm talking about the producers of Joker 2. Damn.
- [24:13]
Ryan Seacrest
Best delivery of the night.
- [24:14]
Carol Markowitz
All right.
- [24:15]
Mary Katherine Ham
It's perfect because you can't be mad at the firefighters.
- [24:17]
Carol Markowitz
Right. Was Joker 2 also a musical?
- [24:21]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yes.
- [24:21]
Carol Markowitz
I think they should stop doing this. I mean, musicals can be fun and Wicked was great, but like a regular movie that you turn into a musical, like, don't do that.
- [24:31]
Mary Katherine Ham
I think you're correct. They should stop. Take a pause. There was one overtly. Well, Emilia Perez, of course, their. Their stuff was overtly political. There was one film that won for best documentary called no Other Land that was very pro Palestinian, and it had a liberal Israeli and a Palestinian director producer combo who both spoke and several Slavo Ukrainians from the. From the stage, I guess. One country that gets invaded, it's okay to stand up for them. Another country that gets invaded.
- [25:03]
Carol Markowitz
Less. Less good. Right on X. An account I follow. A Jewish comedian named Eli Leibowitz said, I can't help but wonder when we'll be seeing a documentary by Israeli and Palestinian filmmakers to partner together on a documentary depicting Hamas's corruption, manipulation, and their brutality of Israelis as well as that of Palestinians in Gaza. We won't hold our breath for that one.
- [25:26]
Mary Katherine Ham
Adrien Brody did make a reference to fighting anti Semitism, appreciated since he's in a Holocaust movie. So that about did it for the Oscars.
- [25:35]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. My last comment is you posted about my cousin Vinny, a movie I have seen and loved. And I always thought Marisa Tomei deserved that Oscar. She was fantastic. And that was like a time when we all watched the movies and maybe we can get back to that.
- [25:51]
Mary Katherine Ham
No, it is, I said. This is the era of someone won an Oscar for a movie I vaguely watched on a plane.
- [25:58]
Carol Markowitz
Right. I don't even, I mean, I don't even get there. I have someone won an Oscar for a movie I read an article about.
- [26:04]
Mary Katherine Ham
Yeah. Or heard some controversy about it.
- [26:07]
Carol Markowitz
Or heard like Ben Shapiro, like, give a little synopsis of what it's about.
- [26:11]
Mary Katherine Ham
I said a handful of those movies and I was wrong. I watched a real pain and it was decent.
- [26:15]
Carol Markowitz
Okay. Yeah.
- [26:17]
Mary Katherine Ham
So that's it.
- [26:18]
Carol Markowitz
Sorry guys, we're going to take a short break and come right back with Normally.
- [26:24]
Mary Katherine Ham
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Mary Katherine Ham
We are here and ready to buy.
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Ryan Seacrest
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Mary Katherine Ham
Just go to OsborneHomes.com go to OsborneHomes.com right now.
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Carol Markowitz
Don't wait.
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Mary Katherine Ham
Sell your house to Osborne Homes and.
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Carol Markowitz
Put the cash in your pocket right away. Just go to OsborneHomes.com that's Osborne Homes.com OsborneHomes.com Osborne Homes.com hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty.
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Mary Katherine Ham
When Dr. Sabah and I decided to.
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Carol Markowitz
Do a skincare line together, he said to me we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist.
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Mary Katherine Ham
It's efficacious.
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Carol Markowitz
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- [30:00]
Mary Katherine Ham
Stuff we're still mad about bro yeah, we got a doozy this week. Francis Collins is leaving the nih. He was the head of the of the NIH during the time of COVID which by the way we're coming up on the old five year anniversary.
- [30:15]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [30:16]
Mary Katherine Ham
He in emails has been found through FOIA to have hidden the idea of a lab leak and that theory and to have actively covered it up.
- [30:27]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [30:27]
Mary Katherine Ham
He never had randomized control trials for mask wearing. Why would you?
- [30:33]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [30:34]
Mary Katherine Ham
He insisted on TV many times that kids were very at risk and wearing masks indoors was really helpful. Didn't specify the mask, all sorts of things. So he's off into the sunset and many on the public health worshiping side of the left are like, look at what we've lost. And I say, we lost a lot of public trust because of him.
- [30:55]
Carol Markowitz
Right. And when they talk about vaccine numbers being down, you know, in other vaccines, not the COVID vaccine, they could trace it back to being lied to during the COVID years, and it's going to be very, very, very hard to recover from that. I know you and I predicted it a lot at the time. We're seeing the results of it now. Yeah, here we are. Here we are living in a world that his lies led us to. And I'm really looking forward to the new crop of people. Obviously, Jay Bhattacharya is fantastic, and we can't wait to see him, you know, do what he does best.
- [31:31]
Mary Katherine Ham
One of the very people who Collins tried to silence. So nice to see him rise. And in new news today, nonetheless, I am very, very mad about it. The New York Times has a guest essay by Ian Lipkin and Ralph Barrick. Recent virus research should raise alarm. In a series of experiments, the scientists show that a virus that has a weird name can efficiently infect cells of humans in a wide range of other animal cells. The findings raise the possibility that humans and other animals could be infected by this virus. This coronavirus belongs to a subgroup of viruses that are classified alongside the one that causes MERS and that can have fatality rates far higher than that of the virus that caused the COVID pandemic. And wouldn't you know it, a lot of people working on this are associated with the Wuhan Institute of Virology and Further. They are doing these experiments at a lab that is not the proper level of security protocols to protect against this kind of thing.
- [32:37]
Carol Markowitz
No lessons have been learned. And they're like, let's just try this one more time.
- [32:42]
Mary Katherine Ham
What are we doing?
- [32:45]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, I feel like we should let somebody know that this is a bad idea and it could lead to a worldwide outbreak. I don't know.
- [32:52]
Mary Katherine Ham
The scientists explain that the levels of security for research laboratories go from BSL1 the lowest, to BSL4. They explained that four are the ones that you see in movies where scientists walk around in spacesuits and stuff with air hoses that are completely covered. These experiments were done In, I believe, BSL2, a designation that is not standardized and not formally recognized with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and that we think is insufficient for work with potentially dangerous respiratory viruses.
- [33:25]
Carol Markowitz
Level two, like, you see the Uber, like, you know, eats delivery driver walking around in the background being like, whose salad is this? Like, what?
- [33:35]
Mary Katherine Ham
I can't I don't even know what the name of this one is. I can't even read it out. It's too many, too many figures. But I fear that in the near future I will have to know the name of HKU5COV2 because they will have let it out of the laboratory.
- [33:50]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, we'll just call it Covid 26.
- [33:52]
Mary Katherine Ham
You know, can we not?
- [33:56]
Carol Markowitz
We can not not.
- [33:58]
Mary Katherine Ham
I mean, this is horrifying. I mean, I'm glad it's in the New York Times. They're just like saying the thing like there's a lab doing this stuff. We should be worried about it. So we're ahead of the game on that front, right?
- [34:08]
Carol Markowitz
Well, I don't root for Covid 26, but I will say that I will be pressuring you hardcore to move to Florida should this go down again. Yeah, this time you cannot wait it out over there.
- [34:19]
Mary Katherine Ham
Number two. We can't do it. Do it again.
- [34:22]
Carol Markowitz
Thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.
- [34:42]
Mary Katherine Ham
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Mary Katherine Ham
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Carol Markowitz
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Mary Katherine Ham
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Carol Markowitz
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Mary Katherine Ham
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Carol Markowitz
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Lifelock
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Mary Katherine Ham
And feels like yeah, okay, we could be here all day.
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