Normally Podcast: Ask Us Anything | Career, Family, and Community

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Special Episode: Normally Podcast - Ask Us Anything | Career, Family, and Community

Release Date: December 23, 2025
Hosts: Mary Katherine Ham and Carolyn

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Episode Overview

This special holiday episode departs from headline-driven political commentary for an "Ask Us Anything" format, as Mary Katherine Ham and Carolyn answer listener questions on careers, family life, parenting, community, and maintaining normalcy in turbulent times. The conversation centers on balancing family and work, the evolution of motherhood, political leadership challenges, and practical advice for raising families in complex environments. The tone is candid, supportive, and laced with relatable anecdotes and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Balancing Career and Family for Women

• Question: Advice for young women who want marriage, kids, and an involved motherhood without sacrificing a career.
• Highlights:
  • Carolyn strongly affirms: “You absolutely can. Getting married, having kids, being an involved mom should not mean you don't get to have a career. And anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you.” (03:51)
  • Both emphasize intentional choices, seeking flexibility, and accepting trade-offs like income for time.
  • Mary Katherine: “There are opportunities I didn't take. There's money I didn't take, there's flexibility I took instead of money.” (04:36)
  • The importance of knowing personal priorities and being unapologetically clear with partners is stressed.

2. Modern Parenting: Rigidity, Technology, and Support

• On Being Present:
  • Carolyn challenges rigid 'no phone' parenting ideals: “Give yourself a little grace and space to do both things sometimes.” (06:25)
  • Mary Katherine notes how many contemporary resources, like grocery delivery, offer options today’s mothers didn’t have. (07:02)
• Supportive Partnerships:
  • “Marry the right person who will support you... have some shared responsibilities in the home.” – Carolyn (07:40)
  • Both admit to falling naturally into some traditional gender roles while emphasizing shared parenting duties.

3. Honesty in Relationships and Goal-Setting

• Advice: Be intentional and direct about wanting marriage and kids early with potential partners.
• Mary Katherine: “If you want that to be your path, make it clear and either... fish or cut bait.” (08:16)
• Lighthearted phrasing ensues, with Carolyn quipping: “Poop, pooper.” (08:40)

4. Community & Connection Among Women

• Listeners ask if the hosts would host a women’s party, spotlighting a widespread hunger for connection.
• Mary Katherine confesses to social anxiety about hosting: “I’m a nervous hoster... I get insecure about what I'm offering and is my cheese good enough?” (10:22)
• Carolyn agrees, emphasizing the importance of building simple, meaningful gatherings despite insecurities.

5. Food and Family Traditions

• Listener requests for Mary Katherine’s pimento cheese recipe become a running joke. She shares a basic formula: “You just need the cheese and the mayonnaise and basically red pepper flakes. And that’s… that’s about it, folks. That’s it.” (12:41)
• Promise to make the full family recipe public remains pending.

6. Political Leadership and Antisemitism

• Question: Why hasn’t J.D. Vance distanced himself from Groypers and addressed antisemitism on the right?
• Carolyn: “He’s missing the opportunity to define himself as the kind of man who won’t stand for this… And I get it… but the time for this has long passed. There’s no denying what this is anymore.” (16:34)
• Mary Katherine points to the need for moral and political leadership even at the cost of alienating fringe supporters: “You can help by leading.” (17:44)
• Discussion covers the risk of fringe ideologies outgrowing the “normies,” and the strategic folly of pandering to extreme factions.
• Carolyn sees a lack of open, honest policy debate, especially regarding Israel, and calls for clarity and directness.

7. Parenting Debates: The ‘Cry It Out’ Method

• Both hosts share personal approaches to baby sleep training:
  • Mary Katherine favors a “modified cry it out” for balance and sanity: “I won’t leave them in perpetuity… but I will do a timer for a few minutes… starting at about 5ish months.” (21:51)
  • Carolyn recounts using gentler pauses and draws on the principle “start how you want to go on.” (24:01)
• Both agree: each family must find what works for their children and themselves, brushing off high-pressure online parenting standards.

8. Raising Kids in Urban or Politically Challenging Environments

• Advice for NYC Families: “Find the enclaves in New York City that are more sane… south of Park Slope are fairly sane and just more normal.” – Carolyn (27:14)
• Mary Katherine laments the loss of “normal” due to politicization of public schools and recommends faith-based or extracurricular groups for ‘old-school’ values: “Most of the things we do have a faith component… feels kind of like 1995 to 2002.” (27:53)
• Both stress the importance of seeking out like-minded community and supporting each other for sanity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Motherhood:
  “My mother didn’t have half the choices I have… Like having groceries delivered, for instance… I look back at her and I go, how is she, like, running errands ever?”
  — Mary Katherine Ham, (07:02)

• On Relationships:
  “Be clear about [marriage and kids] in your own mind and with potential partners. And don’t hang around for six years, engaged or living together or whatever.”
  — Mary Katherine Ham, (08:16)

• On Parenting Trade-Offs:
  “There are opportunities I didn’t take. There’s money I didn’t take, there’s flexibility I took instead of money. There’s healthcare situations… So there are sacrifices.”
  — Mary Katherine Ham, (04:36)

• On Leadership and Extremism:
  “He could deliver that to them. Also. Leadership is important. Even if you think there’s a segment of people who will not come with you… you can help by leading.”
  — Mary Katherine Ham, (17:36, 17:44)

• On Building Community:
  “Find the people who think like you. Even if you guys are, well, outnumbered… at least you’ll have each other for sanity.”
  — Carolyn, (28:53)

• On Modern Parenting Information Overload:
  “Sam Altman… was like, I don’t know how anyone had a baby before AI and it’s like, well, for a long time, we’ve done that.”
  — Mary Katherine Ham, (26:01)

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Detailed Timestamps of Key Segments

• 03:35–05:39 — Can women have it all? (Career, motherhood, marriage)
• 06:00–07:40 — Flexibility, guilt, and modeling behavior for kids
• 07:40–08:16 — Importance of supportive partnerships and division of labor
• 08:16–08:45 — Being forthright about personal goals in relationships
• 10:22–11:32 — Social anxiety around hosting; making space for community
• 12:13–12:54 — Pimento cheese recipe discussion
• 16:21–19:36 — Discussion of J.D. Vance, leadership, groypers & antisemitism
• 21:32–25:46 — 'Cry it out' parenting debate and sleep training stories
• 27:27–29:32 — Raising normal kids in complex urban/political settings and the importance of finding community

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Tone and Takeaways

Candid, humorous, and supportive, the episode provides practical wisdom and lived experiences for listeners grappling with work-life balance, parenting pressure, and community-building. Both hosts are forthright about their own trade-offs, anxieties, and strategies, encouraging self-compassion and intentional decision-making. The conversation repeatedly circles back to the power of connection—whether it’s with friends, family, or like-minded community—while pointing out the enduring challenges of “acting normally” when the world feels increasingly weird.

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Transcript

[Mary Katherine Ham]

This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Carolyn]

Guaranteed human I'm Carolyn. I have metastatic breast cancer. I was concerned after my diagnosis. Qasqali gives me more life for living. Since I've been prescribed, I've seen a daughter get married. I now have a grandchild and another one on the way.

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[Mary Katherine Ham]

Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO Max support for the.

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Show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com, and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra, SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment, recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures Healthcare can feel complicated.

[Optum Ad Voice]

That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable, and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cover and to help you better manage your health. We're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler health care is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more.

[Carolyn]

Every holiday shopper's got a list, but Ross shoppers, you've got a mission like a gift run that turns into a disco, snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family, dog included. At Ross holiday magic isn't about spending more, it's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Hey guys, we are back on normal. The show with Normal ish takes the Lindsay gets weird. And during the holidays we are doing some ask us Anything and you guys have been kind enough to contribute questions to us. So let's kick it off with whatever we got under the hood here.

[Carolyn]

We have a lot of good ones. Mary Katherine, we're gonna start with what advice do you have for young women who wanna get married, have kids, be a pretty involved mom without completely throwing their career prospects away? I really feel like we get this a lot and I do think it's so important to address because people are worried about this. They want both and they don't. They're told they can't have both by a lot of people and they're looking to us to tell them that they can have both. And I'm here to say you can. You absolutely can. Getting married, having kids, being an involved mom should not mean you don't get to have a career. And anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you. Does it mean that you will, you know, a hundred percent be at every single thing that you always want to be at for both your career and your kids? No. You may have to miss a thing or two, but getting most of it in both places is enough. And I'm here to tell you, you will make choices and you will find the right balance and it's completely doable. What do you think?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, I think the good news is that particularly post Covid, I always say that I had a Covid era flexibility pre Covid that I created for myself. But part of that for both of us was being intentional about making choices and taking gigs that allowed for the flexibility to. For me to be with my kids. That was the plan. That was why I chose to follow this path. It's why I didn't choose, for instance, to run and gun for my own primetime show or something. Right. That was not the object. The object was to be in my kids lives and to be around and available sometimes at odd hours where a 9 to 5 job wouldn't work for me. And as a result, there are opportunities I didn't take. There's money I didn't take, there's flexibility I took instead of money. There's healthcare situations that had to be a little more patched together because I was taking gigs that didn't have that. So that's my experience in the Obamacare market. Woo. So there are sacrifices.

[Carolyn]

Yes.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

But my eye was on the ball and the ball was I want to spend time with my kids. So I think, and I'm not the most intentional person in the world, you may have noticed, Carol. But on this front, I think I had in mind that this is what's important to me and this is what's not as important to me.

[Carolyn]

That's right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Knowing that and being able to be confident in what's important to you, that's half the battle.

[Carolyn]

Yeah. I'll also add, I feel like there's a lot of rigid thinking about being with your kids. Like so a lot of people will say, you know, when you're with your kids, don't even look at your phone. Well, no, I pick up my kids from school, you know, at 3 o' clock every day and I'm still working, so I do have to look at my phone and I'm sorry, like I don't get to just, just log off and be completely with my kids, but I pick them up every single day. I have the conversations that you can only have on the drive home from school that they suddenly are open, open up and talk to you about stuff. I'm there, I'm present as much as I can. I do avoid the phone. But look, if I have, if I'm on a deadline or if my editor is sending me something or whatever, I am going to be on my phone a little bit. Like give yourself a little grace and space to do both things sometimes.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah. I try to model good behavior in that way and I'm not always great at it.

[Carolyn]

Yeah.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

But I would say I. There's rigidity from everyone in the online conversation about this and in the discourse about this that I think crowds out how Many more choices we have.

[Carolyn]

Exactly.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Than we used to. My mother didn't have half the choices I have available to her. And so. Or the resources. Or just in like. Like having groceries delivered, for instance, which is a more expensive way of doing it, but if you need it, you can do it. Like, there's all these things that she didn't have at her disposal. And I look back at her and I go, how is she, like, running errands ever?

[Carolyn]

Yeah.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

How was she getting anything done?

[Carolyn]

Right. And didn't have cell phones?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

You know, I'm kind of amazed by. By all that she did get done back then. And of course, my dad was similarly supportive, as our husbands are. So that was a huge.

[Carolyn]

That's another thing. Marry the right person who will support you in your decisions and be there for you and have, you know, some shared responsibilities in the home. I. I've talked about this before. We are fairly heteronormative. If something breaks, if he has to fix it, like. But I fold all the laundry. Like, it. We do kind of fall into the very typical women and female and male roles, but we. We do both have responsibilities and we both participate in parenting, for example. That's something that we do together.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah. The other form of practical advice I would give is if you do want to get married and have kids, be clear about that in your own mind and with potential partners. And don't hang around for six years, engaged or living together or whatever. The thing is, if you want that to be your path, make it clear and either. What do they say? Fish or cut bait.

[Carolyn]

That's right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Poop, pooper.

[Carolyn]

Get off the pot.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

They said it the nice way.

[Carolyn]

So that brings us to our next question, which actually fits very well with the end of that. Where can we hear MKH uncensored? I want to hear full potty mouth, but it ain't going to be on cable or podcast, apparently.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, I mean, I can get pretty bad, I must confess. Can you?

[Carolyn]

I've never heard you. You're always, like, very non curs.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

See, not in my house. Not in my house. And I don't think I will do it publicly because it's. It's bad form. And I should be a better, more polite Southern lady, and I shouldn't.

[Carolyn]

I see you as, like, a polite Southern lady, like, like our friend Bethany Mandel. Like, she curses. She curses, you know, in.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

In.

[Carolyn]

In her everyday life. You do not curse, you know, sometimes.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Well, I. Again, I do, but not on air. And if you really want to see it, you'll have to catch me at a sports bar watching a dog's game.

[Carolyn]

But the dog's been winning, so. I know you're not even cursing at the TV screen. Come on.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

It's true. But if you were to find me out of line in public, that's where it would be.

[Carolyn]

Yeah. Can you two please host a party? Women are desperate for connections with like minded women. And all of your listeners would become best friends. I love that.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

That's so fun.

[Carolyn]

I used to do that for my blog. I used to have like, you know, people who read me. We'd, we'd have like parties and people did become friends and get married and all kinds of stuff through those meetups. I'd love to do that. Actually. I don't know where, where would we do that? It could, couldn't be like in dc, right? I mean. Oh, you know, and I don't. I, I mean I, I pitched South Florida, but I also just don't think it, it would be here either. Where, where would that be?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Like, I like the idea. Let's brainstorm it a little bit. Also a thing that I think, I think this, this listener is correct that people are longing for connections. And one of the things that I should probably make a New Year's resolution is that I'm not great at hosting. I'm a, I'm a nervous hoster when it comes to dinner parties or even just having people over casually. I get nervous, I get insecure about what I'm offering and is my cheese good enough?

[Carolyn]

I, I hear you, I hear you.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And so I need to get better about that because I feel like I don't go to other people's houses and get mad about what cheese they offer me. Like, like it's, they're not judging me. They're my friends. Like they could come in and it'll be fine. So I'm going to try to get better about offering that part of connection to other people as well.

[Carolyn]

Yeah, I like that. I'm. Look, I'm also a nervous hoster, actually. Not so much in my house, but when I have to have parties or like when I had book launch parties or my kids bar bat mitzvahs, I'm always like, are people having fun? I just can't tell. So that kind of stuff makes me nervous. But yeah, you're. They're our friends. They're not going to care.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Well, and the fact is when you get a bunch of cool people together, they have fun.

[Carolyn]

Right? It's so obvious. And our friends are cool people and Our listeners are cool people. So, yeah, I think, you know, we'll have to figure out a way. Maybe it'll be around some other big event, maybe like the next, you know, GOP convention or something. I don't know. That doesn't sound that fun, actually, but something. Something. Some kind of big something. Maybe we'll have a little gather a normally listener party, and, you know, that'll be the. That'll be what we do.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

I like it.

[Carolyn]

All right. Speaking of your cheese, actually, can you DM me the pimento cheese recipe from Hurricane 93 on Twitter? Why do you leave this poor listener hanging? I just don't understand the pimento cheese, mk. The people want.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

It should. Look, it's very simple. I just. You know what I need to do? I need to text my dad right now and be like, is this public? Can I just make this public? And I probably. Yeah.

[Carolyn]

I feel like you said this a year ago.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

I know. And. But this is the problem with my. My brain dysfunction is that once I. Once those words come out of my mouth, I will forget they came out of my mouth and I will not follow up. But listen, I'm gonna write it down right now.

[Carolyn]

Yeah.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Mr. Hammer, can this be public about the pimento cheese? Okay.

[Carolyn]

All right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

I mean, really, it's very simple. It's. That's the thing about the. All the fancy pimento cheeses. You don't need all that. You just need, like, you just need the cheese and the mayonnaise and basically red pepper flakes. And that's. That's. That's about it, folks. That's it.

[Carolyn]

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, in the pimento, obviously. Hurricane 93. I hope you're listening. And there you have it. But I. You know, we'll find out if MK can give you anything other than that.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

I'm going to work on this. I'm going to work on this.

[Carolyn]

I'm Carolyn. I have metastatic breast cancer. I was concerned after my diagnosis. Cascali gives me more life for living. Since I've been prescribed, I've seen a daughter get married. I now have a grandchild and another one on the way.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Voice]

Gascali ribociclib. 200 milligram tablets with hormone therapy is for adults with HR positive. HER2 negative. Metastatic breast cancer do not take with tamoxifen. In the clinical study, at 80 months, women taking Cascali plus letrozole lived over a year longer versus letrozole alone. Individual results may vary. Kiscali may cause serious skin reactions. Liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in serious infections. Life threatening lung problems and abnormal heartbeats can occur. Your doctor should test your heart and blood before and during treatment. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening cough, chest pain or dizziness before taking Cascali. Tell your doctor all your medical conditions, medicines you take and if you're breastfeeding, pregnant or planning to be sick and harm an unborn baby. Common side effects include nausea, headache and tiredness. Real patient compensated for her time. Learn [e-mail] Season 2 of Unrivaled Basketball.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally, literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra, SIP Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures Healthcare can feel complicated.

[Optum Ad Voice]

That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cover and to help you better manage your health. We're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more.

[Carolyn]

Every holiday shopper's got a list, but Ross shoppers, you've got a mission like a gift Run that turns into a disco snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family. Dog included. At Ross holiday magic isn't about spending more. It's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic. All right. Should we do a serious one?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Sure.

[Carolyn]

No more pimento. Here we go. Why do you think J.D. vance is incapable of distancing himself from Groipers or even taking seriously anti Semitism on the right. I have been thinking about this a lot, and I really like J.D. vance. I liked him before he became vice president. I still like him today. But he's whiffing on this, and he's missing the opportunity to define himself as the kind of man who won't stand for this kind of thing. And I get it. I get that there's a lot of difficult angles to this. He's very close friends with Tucker Carlson. I have admitted on here that I delayed saying anything about Tucker until it got really bad, because I like Tucker Carlson. I liked him. I used to go on his show. We were friendly. We used to text. And so I gave him the benefit of the doubt until it was impossible to give him any more benefit of the doubt. And that's where J.D. vance has to be. The time for this has long passed. There's no denying what this is anymore. And I'd love to see JD Vance take a stand. I think it would be good for him. I think he thinks he would lose some number of followers or, you know, people who would vote for him. I'm not so sure. I think he would gain people. I think people long for sanity and normalcy, and he could deliver that to them.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Also. Leadership is important. Yeah. You know, even if you think there's a segment of people who will not come with you.

[Carolyn]

Right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

On these very sane, decent person sentiments.

[Carolyn]

Yep.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

You can help by leading. Yeah. And I. And he's. He's in particular, is a very effective communicator.

[Carolyn]

He is.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Who has relationships with people who are listened to by younger people on the griper. Right. Or the Internet. Right. And could actually influence how people come to their conclusions about this. So that's the thing that he should do. It's an opportunity, I think, also on other fronts. You know, I remember when the Signal chat was publicized by Jeffrey Goldberg at the Atlantic because he had been mistakenly added to the Signal chat. What struck me is just how hesitant J.D. vance was about American force, because even in the case of American targets being hit and these, you know, very obviously places that we should have control over being hit by Houthis he was like, should we be up to this? So there are things that concern me about his ideology, Worldview.

[Carolyn]

Yeah.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

That I just don't agree with, and I don't. I think that Trump is more willing to. To make those calls and would be concerned about him. And I think left and right, welcome to the Horseshoe. When it comes to young people, the establishments of both parties are trying to figure out how they keep young people in. And they see the polling on young people turning against Israel, to some extent, being a little more isolationist and, in fact, sometimes openly anti Semitic.

[Carolyn]

Right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And they don't know how to keep that under the tent without sort of winking at it. And to your point, Carol, I think that's not only morally wrong, but probably tactically, strategically wrong in the end, because the normies outnumber these folks. That's it.

[Carolyn]

That's it. The normies outnumber them. Concern, of course, is that that fringe wing will keep growing and the normies will be outnumbered. The thing about Israel, which is why.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

I think that leadership is important from someone who's a really good communicator, for sure.

[Carolyn]

And the thing about Israel is that it's not about Israel. It's really like, if you want to cut, you know, all funding to all four, you know, all foreign aid to all countries, go ahead, run on that. Discuss that. Don't wink at it. Don't, like, pretend you're talking about something else. Like, I actually, I. Again, I don't. I think a lot of people ascribe motives to JD Vance that maybe he doesn't have. And I'm talking about the gripers see him as. As a fellow traveler, like, oh, he's gonna dump his wife, his Indian wife, and marry, you know, Charlie Kirk's widow kind of insanity online. But the thing is, until I hear it from him, I don't know what he stands for. And this whole idea of, like, oh, people are just attacking Tucker because they hate JD's foreign policy. And my comment to that is, is JD's foreign policy different than Donald Trump's foreign policy? And if so, does the president know that his vice president's foreign policy is different than his own? I feel like this is an important conversation to have. Why are we having it? And in, like, whispers on the Internet instead of out loud, you know, everywhere. I'm going to continue to give JD the benefit of the doubt, and I'm going to see where this goes. But, yeah, I, I don't love how quiet he's been and how muted his criticism has been. And I get that he doesn't want to get caught in the trap that mainstream media does set for Republicans to constantly be denouncing things, be denouncing everyone all the time. I get that. I get it. You don't have to be denouncing everything all the time. But this is becoming something that you may want to denounce in the. In the near future. Cry it out method for or against if. For at what age?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Ooh, this is. This is very controversial.

[Carolyn]

You thought the last one was controversial? Yeah. Really? I don't know. All right, let's hear it.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

So I am after four kids. I have always been, I think, modified. Cry it out. So I won't leave them in perpetuity.

[Carolyn]

Yeah.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

But I will do a timer for a few minutes to see if my children, starting at about, I want to say, like 5ish months. Okay. Can learn a little bit to put themselves to sleep, to self soothe a little bit. Now, there are some people on the other end of the spectrum who think this is like, just monstrous behavior.

[Carolyn]

Really. Oh, okay.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yes. And that my children, like, will not. Will have attachment issues and all that. It's like. Okay. I don't. I don't know. I. Yeah. Keep them in my room till they're four and a half months old. I feel like we're pretty attached.

[Carolyn]

I feel like you're attached.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

But yeah, I do think I'm on the side that thinks sleep hygiene, like decent sleep patterns, most important, and teaching them are pretty good for both mom and baby. And particularly I don't want to go insane during the first year of my child's life because that doesn't make me a great parent for anyone. Right. So, yeah, I do a little bit of like, co sleeping in bassinet in my room for four or five months. And then I do a modified version of teaching them to sleep on their own.

[Carolyn]

So here's my question. Did you read any parenting books?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Not really. I read Expecting Better about pregnancy because I really appreciated Emily Oster's approach to treating pregnant women like adults who can make decisions based on rational risk analysis. And then after that, I did on my third and fourth. Kids have to brush up on sleep stuff, really. And they were different kinds of kids. And I was living.

[Carolyn]

And that's what it is. The kid that is different throws you off completely and all your plans go out the window.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And I think my fourth was probably my worst sleeper, but they've all been pretty decent, which is why I have four kids.

[Carolyn]

Same.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Right. And. And so on the Last ones I did Taking Care of babies program a little bit to try to refresh my memory. She is a. She's an Instagram influencer taking care of C A R A babies. And I find her to be responsible, middle of the road maternal force who has a lot of experience and just has practical tips for how you can get your right. Get your sanity back post. Love it.

[Carolyn]

I only read Happiest Baby on the Block and the only thing I remember about it is start how you want to go on, which is something that I live by completely. Like, I. I think a lot of people expect their kids to change or think, oh, they'll grow out of this and I won't have to, like, do this anymore. I think, you know, as. As the great philosopher Jay Z said, you are who you are, player, and you could try to change, but that's just the top layer. You was who you was when you got here. You was who you was when you got here. And I think my kids have stayed that way. I don't think we ever did cry it out.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

We.

[Carolyn]

The middle child is our only. Was our only bad sleeper. And maybe we'd pause before we'd go into the room. I remember a SM French parenting guide that I maybe skimmed. Had a le pause thing where you just wait a second and see if they calm down on their own. Maybe we do that. I don't remember ever just, like, letting them cry it out. I guess. I. I just. I didn't read enough parenting books or enough parenting information. There was not, you know, was the era before Instagram, you know, influencing, So I didn't really have the guidelines of what I was supposed to do.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And we just.

[Carolyn]

We did our best, you know?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah.

[Carolyn]

I mean, I sound like such an old lady.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Wow.

[Carolyn]

Like, my God.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

There'S really. There really is something to taking a beat, right? Yeah. Just. Just like, okay. Like, not. Because I do think you'll drive yourself pretty crazy if every single whimper, which does happen. Like, there have been times in my parenting journey when I was anxious and I had the baby right next to me and every single thing I was up and like, oh, ooh. And I realized that that was not a healthy loop for me to be in, and it wasn't helpful for me or for the kid.

[Carolyn]

Totally.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And so I had to kind of work myself out of that, doing some modified behaviors. So.

[Carolyn]

All right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah.

[Carolyn]

I mean, I like that question. I think that that's the kind of thing that you just have to kind of figure out for yourself what works best for your Family. But I love that. The sharing of information. That's what parenting's supposed to be like, I think.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah. I saw a funny clip the other day that was like, Sam Altman, the. The chat. Oh, yeah, the open. Open AI guy was like, I don't know how anyone had a baby before AI and it's like, well, for a long time, we've done that.

[Carolyn]

Even before Google, people had babies.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

I heard it's like, welcome to natural selection, sir.

[Carolyn]

Yeah. All right, we'll do one friend. Yeah. Talk to your friends about it. For sure. We'll do one more question. Okay. Besides moving, what is your advice for normal, sane families who are trying to raise kids in New York City? Oh, my gosh. Besides moving? Besides moving. Look, I get moving is hard and all of that. I really do. I. I understand that it's not possible for some people, but it has to be considered is. Is what I would just say. Maybe you don't. You can't move, like, to Florida or something, but maybe you move to Long Island. Maybe that's. That's the solution or the compromise that you make to keep a sane childhood for your kids. If not, I would say find the enclaves in New York City that are more sane. My part of South Brooklyn, basically all of the neighborhoods south of, like, Park Slope are fairly sane and just more normal. More places where you won't see the kind of insanity that you'll see in what I largely consider the transplant neighborhoods of northern Brooklyn.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, I mean, I. I live in kind of a. I'm in the mid Atlantic. I'm near D.C. but not in it. Sort of medium level of issues with weirdness, certainly in the school system, the public school system. And that's. That's one of the things that's so sad about the public school systems and the teachers unions and all the weirdos taking over is that you've stolen normal from the norm. Right. We could have had normal. We used to have normal.

[Carolyn]

Yep.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And there's been a concerted effort to make that not the norm anymore. So one of the things I do is that most of the things we do have a faith component because I find that extracurricular activities that are explicitly religious are what Normie was in the 90s.

[Carolyn]

So true. Except in Judaism.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Well, and this. This is the problem, Right. In Christianity, that works.

[Carolyn]

Right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And it. It does not work as well.

[Carolyn]

You guys are like, the end. I envy you.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

But, yeah, I put my kids in stuff that, like, feels very old school because it's explicitly religious, but feels very old School feels kind of like 1995 to 2002.

[Carolyn]

It's like those were the glory days.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

So that's one of the ways. And I also. We make sure that. Not make sure, but we are surrounded by a lot of military families as well, so that's a much more. Yeah, Normie demographic.

[Carolyn]

I would say that. Find your people. Find the people who think like you. Even if you guys are, well, outnumbered, at least you'll have each other for sanity. At least you'll be able to look at each other and say, this is crazy. Right. What's going on is crazy. Like not sweeping up homeless encampments and letting them grow and fester. That's crazy. Right? Okay, good. I just needed a reality check that this wasn't a normal thing to do that want to raise your kids. If you have to raise your kids somewhere that people largely disagree with you, find the people that do agree with you and form your own community. And that's. That's really the only thing you can do. Move to Staten Island. I mean, they're kind of still normal.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah.

[Carolyn]

All right.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Good luck, you guys. It's not, it's not easy.

[Carolyn]

You got.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Making these decisions is not easy.

[Carolyn]

No, it's not easy. It's not easy. And I really feel for the people who can't make a different decision. And I really feel, really understand you and I think about you. I root for you. I want things to improve for you. Thanks for joining us on this very special Ask us Anything episode of Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, you act normally.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

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[Carolyn]

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[Mary Katherine Ham]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.