Normally Podcast: Ask Us Anything | College Decisions, Conspiracy Theories, Politics, Immigration & Career Advice

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Normally Podcast: Ask Us Anything | College Decisions, Conspiracy Theories, Politics, Immigration & Career Advice
Date: December 30, 2025
Hosts: Mary Katharine Ham (A), Carol Markowitz (B)

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Episode Overview

In this special “Ask Us Anything” edition, Mary Katharine Ham (MK) and Carol Markowitz take listener questions covering a wide range of topics—from college choices and conspiracy theories to politics, immigration, and career goals. The discussion blends personal anecdotes, political commentary, and candid career advice, delivered in the duo’s trademark direct, relatable style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Choosing a College: Secular vs. Christian Schools

[03:48 - 08:52]

• Purpose of College:
  • Carol views college as primarily a social and networking experience, not strictly about education.
    • "It's for being around your kind of people. It's for finding your potential spouse. It's for making lifelong friends and potential work connections. And you should choose the school that is best for that." – Carol [04:18]
  • Both agree academic content can largely be self-taught. MK emphasizes avoiding substantial student debt:
    • "When I got out of college with zero debt, I did not realize that compared to many of my peers, I was basically a millionaire." – MK [05:50]
• Personal Fit:
  • Choose based on priorities—faith, academic rigor, social networks.
  • MK recounts finding her "people" by joining the lacrosse team, underscoring the value of extracurricular communities at large schools.

2. Conspiracy Theories & Reliable Narrators: The Case of Charlie Kirk

[09:41 - 15:01]

• Rejecting Far-Out Theories:
  • Carol criticizes conspiracy thinking around Charlie Kirk’s death:
    • "Turning Point people wanted to kill Charlie Kirk, the guy who was, like, running the whole organization and making them all money. Why?" – Carol [09:57]
• Media Trust Issues:
  • MK highlights the consequences of general mistrust in institutions fueling such theories:
    • "A very well-earned trust deficit in the mainstream media... when people get a story, they go, 'Okay, is that true? Let's weigh it.' But... you must use your discernment." – MK [10:44]
  • Both warn that bad actors exploit this climate for personal gain (explicit references to Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson):
    • "Figures like Candace end up making a ton and being incentivized to capitalize on this horrible tragedy." – MK [12:11]
    • "I just feel like Candace is gonna use this for content and that's gonna be the whole story there." – Carol [12:44]
• Empathy for Those Affected:
  • MK voices empathy for Kirk’s widow:
    • "People's lives are actually happening here." – MK [12:55]
    • Discussion notes the double bind for public figures caught in the crossfire.

3. Hypothetical Matchups: Candace Owens vs. Josh Shapiro

[19:01 - 20:51]

• Neither host would back either candidate in this matchup.
  • "I could not vote for either one of them... I don't think that Candace is a conservative at all. I don't know what ties her to the Republican Party whatsoever anymore. I don't share any ideals with her. I think she's a repugnant person." – Carol [19:14]
  • "I would likely not vote for either of them. I would probably listen to Shapiro with a more open mind." – MK [20:12]

4. Working for ICE: Pride or Shame?

[21:39 - 23:49]

• Both would be proud if their children joined ICE or law enforcement.
  • "Hell, yeah, I'd be proud... I don't even understand the question." – Carol [21:39]
  • Mary Katharine stresses the importance of educated, civil-rights literate individuals in these positions:
    • "Would you like people who are well educated in civil rights and the guarantees of the Constitution to end up in law enforcement? Because that's the kind of kids I'm raising." – MK [22:44]
  • Carol asserts that opposition to ICE should be expressed through changing laws, not scorning law enforcement.

5. Immigration Policy & Party Politics

[23:49 - 25:15]

• Carol (an immigrant) underscores the need for order:
  • "As an immigrant, I can say that I oppose illegal immigration, and I think we should need to have a secure border. That's what you need to have a country." – Carol [25:15]
• MK notes how open-borders rhetoric has pushed her toward a more hawkish stance.
  • "Tactically speaking, you turned me from an immigration squish into an immigration hawk." – MK [24:41]

6. Agreeing to Disagree & Political Evolution

[25:31 - 28:25]

• Both hosts have grown less libertarian over time, especially as policy realities disappoint.
  • "I have become less libertarian as I've gotten older. And I think we both started from a more libertarian place." – Carol [25:47]
  • "I used to be much more libertarian, but often the consequences of those policies end up being bad in real life." – MK [26:35]
• The importance of fighting for ideological neutrality in public education is stressed, even as school-choice momentum grows.
  • "I actually don't think we should abandon public schools. I think we do need to fight for that neutrality." – Carol [27:46]

7. Career Goals and Work-Life Balance

[28:54 - 31:48]

• Both express contentment with their current careers, valuing balance over ambition:
  • "I don't have dreams. I do not dream of labor." – Carol [29:16]
  • "The work is for standing up for things I believe in, modeling that for my kids, enjoying the work that I do and the balance that it gives me in my life." – MK [31:28]
• Carol candidly shares that book-writing is not rewarding enough for the effort for now, but is open to changing life circumstances reigniting her motivation.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "You have to have enough respect for your own values to say, 'No, we don't want to get pushed around by Target or by Starbucks or whoever it is all the time.'" – MK [27:26]
• "If you don't like the law, go change the law. Go try to run on it. That's like, what continues to be my problem with Democrats and illegal immigration. They will never run on, I want an open border. But that's ultimately what they're saying...Americans don't want that." – Carol [23:49]
• "Maybe we get some better options. I saw an Axios today. Kamala Harris is, like, moving toward another run, and it's like, ma'am, I believe we can do better." – MK [20:42]

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Timeline of Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:34 | Start of "Ask Us Anything" and introductions | | 03:48 | College choice: secular vs. Christian; avoiding debt; value of social network | | 09:41 | Conspiracy theories: Charlie Kirk's death, Candace Owens, media trust | | 19:01 | Candace Owens vs. Josh Shapiro: hypothetical presidential vote | | 21:39 | Would you be proud if your kid joined ICE? Immigration and law enforcement | | 25:31 | “Agree to disagree” topics, libertarianism, public education | | 28:54 | Career ambitions, work-life balance, value of labor |

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Mary Katharine and Carol maintain a conversational, unfiltered style rooted in personal experience, skepticism of groupthink (on both left and right), and a desire for practical solutions. Their responses are characterized by honesty, humor, and a willingness to challenge both their audience and themselves.

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For listeners who missed this episode:
Expect a wide-ranging, candid Q&A that combines real-world advice, sharp cultural observation, and a refreshing refusal to fall into partisan or conspiratorial traps. The duo pulls no punches—whether discussing where to send your kid to college, why media trust is broken, or the value of simply "standing up for things I believe in."

Transcript

[A]

This is an I Heart Podcast Guaranteed human I'm Carolyn.

[B]

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[C]

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[D]

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[A]

Season two of Unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[E]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com, and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures get into the spirit with Vizio's My Hub A new, simpler way to find everything you Love on Vizio TV this holiday season, MyHub is your destination to discover new movies and shows tailored to you, find exclusive deals and discounts, and keep your favorites organized in one convenient place. Plus, Vizio TVs have all your favorite apps built in like iHeartRadio so you can stream that festive music playlist. MyHub makes it simpler to find what you want when you want it. Visit vizio.com iheart and experience entertainment made easy today.

[A]

Hey guys, we are back on.

[E]

Normally, the show is normal.

[A]

It takes for when news gets weird. And during this Christmas and holiday season, we are taking questions from you. Ask us anything. Carol's got a bunch queued up for us. I'm Mary Kathryn Ham. How you doing, Carol?

[B]

And I am Carol Markowitz. I'm doing great. I really love the questions that our listeners send us. They they really range from serious to light, and I I just enjoy reading through them so much. So let's start with this one. I'm finishing up at community college and looking at potential transfer schools for next fall. Do you think it'd be better to go to a secular school that has all the typical progressive bells and whistles, or an explicitly Christian school that has a more liberal theological bent?

[A]

Hmm.

[B]

I think that school is for college. I'm not kidding. This is what I tell my kids. It's for being around your kind of people. It's for finding your potential spouse. It's for making lifelong friends and potential work connections. And you should choose the school that is best for that. I know that I'm supposed to think that college is for education, but I just don't think so anymore. I don't think there's anything that college can give you at this point that you can't get in the outside world. And so you have to see it as a social opportunity. And this is literally what I tell my children.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's all about what is most important to you. If the faith part is most important, then those might be your people, liberal theology or no. Right. And so figuring out what is most important to you is number one. But I mostly agree with you, Carol, that, you know, when you're going to college, there's often not much more that you could learn there than you could out of just doing a great books curriculum on your own. You could do most of what you get in college, which is one of the things that is so sad about people losing the ability to read books because there's a long tradition of people getting a very good education from just reading books. So weighing that, I think also an important part of any college education should be weighing how much you want to go into debt, because that will change the trajectory of your life. And a lot of people take on a lot of debt without thinking about how it will change the trajectory of their lives. When I got out of college with zero debt, I did not realize that compared to my many of my peers, I was basically a millionaire. Like, yeah, just. I came out, I went on scholarship, I came out with no debt. I made 10, 50 an hour. And I thought I was like, you know, not doing well.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Turns out I was doing pretty well.

[B]

Yeah, it's. That's absolutely right. I think that you have to consider what your future career will be and how much that will make and how much college costs. And there has to be some sort of calculation there for that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But again, the advice that I give my own kids, like, I have a 15 year old. So this is already. It's coming up fast. But what I say to her is, I have three very different kinds of kids. They're not all the same. I think she needs to be around brainy kids who are very driven. That's not every single school. So I kind of direct her to schools where she's going to have these brainy, driven kids where there's a Jewish population that she could potentially meet her spouse. Look, this is important to me and I'm open about it. And then for future business work connections, depending on her field, that we don't really know what that's going to be yet, but that's what you want. You want those three, at least I want that for my kids. I want those three things. My younger sons, I could see a completely different calculation for them. I just, I just think that each kid is obviously unique and different. But for me, it's. It's the social thing more than anything else.

[A]

I think I did not use college enough for.

[B]

Oh, my God, For.

[A]

For professional connections. That is not. I didn't use the alumni network. I didn't realize that that was a thing. It was a. I think it was a little bit of stubborn independence on my part that I was just like, I'm going to make it the way that I make it. And it's like, well, why wouldn't you seek help, young woman? Yeah, but no, that's so true.

[B]

It's so right. Why, like, why not get help?

[A]

But I did know what I wanted, and I wanted a big school with athletics that I could attend and take part in and a decent journalism program. Those were the things that were important to me, and it put me with my people and the way I found my people, by the way, because sometimes if you get to a big college, it can be hard to find where your people are. I went to uga and I ended up playing lacrosse on a club team, which meant that all the women who are on that club team were from out of state. So the out of state people.

[B]

Wait, why does it mean that because.

[A]

They didn't have lacrosse was not popular in the south at this point?

[B]

Okay, got it.

[A]

So I played on this team where everybody had come from other places. And it turned out that the personality type that comes from somewhere else to go to a giant school where no one else is, that they know, is the personality type that I was drawn to. And this was the people.

[B]

I understand that. Yeah.

[A]

And the team made it easy for all of us to come together. There were some in state kids, but that was my way of finding my slot. When there are 35,000 people at your school. So that part can be tricky.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was demoralizing before I found that.

[B]

Yeah, no, I could see that, definitely. I also went to a really big school. The accepting help part and, you know, leaning into all that your school has to offer, that's another. I did not do that at all. I didn't go see a guidance counselor until the. Like, two weeks before school.

[A]

I did.

[B]

And I was like, hey, so what do I do with this political science degree? And she literally was like, you could do anything. I was like, like what? Like what? Like, name some things. And she's like, you could just do, like, anything. And I was like, like, what? I need to take this back to my parents. What do you got? I have no idea. What did I just do? Like, I just finished college And I hadn't even considered what I was going to do next.

[A]

So. Yeah, get some money for you.

[B]

Yeah, you're paying for it.

[A]

And the alumni network is such a big deal. And again, something that I should have taken much more advantage of and did not. So.

[B]

Yeah. All right, let's see, let's see. Okay. A more serious one, although the last one was serious as well. What are your thoughts on the conspiracy theories surrounding Charlie Kirk's death long ago? Trusted voices are sounding crazy thoughts.

[A]

Please.

[B]

Look, we're recording this before the sit down with Erica Kirk and Candace Owens. I am very mixed on it. I understand why Erica feels like she needs to do it. I think it's bad. I think it legitimizes Candace. And I'm not sure that Candace stops when Erica tells her to stop, which is what I imagine is the case here. Yeah, the conspiracy theories make no sense. Turning Point people wanted to kill Charlie Kirk, the guy who was, like, running the whole organization and making them all money. Why? Why did, like, Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro donate a million dollars to Turning Point after Charlie died? Because obviously the concern is that the organization couldn't survive without its leader. They understood that. Why would they kill their leader? That makes no sense. For what?

[A]

None of it makes any sense. And I think we have a cultural problem where a very well earned trust deficit in the mainstream media and in mainstream institutions leads people to go, okay, well, I'm not going to trust a lot of this at first blush. So when they get a story, they go, well, okay, is that true? Let's weigh it. But it should not simply stop there. You must use your discernment to ask questions like the ones Carol asks, which is like, does this actually make sense?

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I think trust deficit plus personality driven news plus an attention economy means that it can really incentivize extremely bad habits, extremely bad ways of sort of clouding issues instead of trying to make them clearer. And frankly, this is something that is. My beef with the mainstream media often is like, why are you. You're not trying to make things clearer. You're making things more modifier when there are clear answers. And so, you know, I. And as you do, Carol, and like, there are plenty of people who disagree with me on issues, but I do attempt to tell the truth.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To make things clearer to people, to try to be in this, you know, morass of the way we do news now, to be a person who can be trusted in certain ways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just think, like, figures like Candace end up making a ton and Being incentivized to capitalize on this horrible tragedy and the attention that comes with this hor. The murder of her alleged former friend. And I, I agree with you, Carol, that, like, going into a summit with somebody who has completely different motivations than you do could turn out quite badly. But God is stronger than a personality disorder. So I will hope for better than that.

[B]

Yeah, I, I'm with you. I, I hope for better, but I just feel like Candace is gonna use this for content and that's gonna be the whole story there. Rooting for them otherwise. But I just, I just don't see it.

[A]

I also have to say, when you're, when you're tossing all this stuff around and if whoever you're listening to is doing it in a soap opera type manner, people's lives are actually happening here. They are living through. I can't imagine having to deal with what Erica is dealing with while raising her kids. And one of the reasons she speaks out so much is partly to fill the vacuum that is otherwise being filled totally by bad actors. And then she gets, of course, accused of being bad because she's speaking out, but whatever, right?

[B]

She can't win. And that's, that's the situation here. She. She isn't crying enough. She's crying too much. Like, it's just, you know, we talked about that several times on Widow Defense on this show. But she's in just a really tough spot and she wants to see Turning Point succeed. Understand her. I really do. I get like, Tucker Carlson is a cancer on that organization and on the, on the conservative movement. I understand why they are still including him in their events. He, When Charlie died, he was pretty adamant about including Tucker. They were very good friends. But Tucker's like, even further lost his mind since Charlie has. Charlie was killed. Tucker has become like somebody who spreads the conspiracy theories. You know, he, he went on Theo Von and he spread the conspiracy theory about Egyptian planes that Candace is pushing. Make your stupid conspiracy theory makes sense. What were the Egyptian planes? What is, what does that even mean? The Egyptian government took Charlie out. Israel through Egypt took them out. Like, come on, stop it.

[A]

I mean, at one point it was like France, Israel, Angola.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

So there's so many.

[B]

Yeah. And she changes all the time.

[A]

Yes. And it, and it changes according to what is getting attention and what is sort of throwing you off the formerly promised big scoop that never comes to fruition. So use your discernment when you're listening to people just, just as you would with mainstream media when you go. Okay. Can I figure out what is true and what is not? Yeah, I do think we have a cultural issue with reliable narrators and a and a dearth thereof. This is unfortunately bad. Actors can be incentivized in really bad ways.

[B]

I'm Carolyn. I have metastatic breast cancer. I was concerned after my diagnosis. Cascali gives me more lives for living since I've been prescribed. I've seen a daughter get married. I now have a grandchild and another one on the way.

[C]

Gascali ribociclib 200mg tablets with hormone therapy is for adults with HR positive HER2 negative metastatic breast cancer do not take with tamoxifen. In the clinical study at 80 months, women taking Cascali plus letrozole lived over a year longer versus letrozole alone. Individual results may vary. Cascali may cause serious skin reactions, liver problems and low white blood blood cell counts that may result in serious infections. Life threatening lung problems and abnormal heartbeats can occur. Your doctor should test your heart and blood before and during treatment. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening cough, chest pain or dizziness before taking Cascali. Tell your doctor all your medical conditions, medicines you take and if you're breastfeeding, pregnant or planning to be as it can harm an unborn baby. Common side effects include nausea, headache and tiredness. Real patient compensated for her time. Learn [e-mail] did you know?

[D]

Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iheart for great, great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag Reader's Choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[A]

Season 2 of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[E]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt from renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers. Growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not invested recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures hey audiobook lovers. This week on the podcast I'm sitting down with musician, producer and walking encyclopedia Questlove. We're talking about Mark Ronson's memoir, Night how to Be a DJ in 90s New York City. All right, like we talked about before, Mark Ronson found sanctuary in the DJ booth. What's a tool or piece of equipment in the studio or on stage? Stage that gives you the most control? So I have two microphones on stage. We have the microphone that you hear as the audience. Then we have a second microphone in which we communicate with each other. I feel like that second microphone kind of saved all of our friendships. No band likes each other after 20 years or 25 years. The Beatles broke up in seven and a half years and we're going on 31st listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

Another one last Candace Owens question. And you know I always hope to never speak of her again. But if Candace Owens was the GOP nominee versus Josh Shapiro, who gets your vote?

[A]

Dear me.

[B]

See, what I say in situations like this is I wouldn't vote for either Democrat. But I just do. I couldn't, I could not vote for either one of them. I, I, you know, I don't think that Candace is a conservative at all. I don't know what ties her to the Republican Party whatsoever anymore. I don't share any ideals with her. I think she's a repugnant person. So no, I wouldn't, you know, hold my nose and vote for her. But I'm also not voting for a Democrat who sits by as his party becomes more and more anti Israel, anti Semitic. Who knows? He wasn't picked for the vice presidency by Kamala Harris because he's a Jewish man and doesn't say anything about it and continues to defend them. So, look, they're, you know, gross to me in different ways. And maybe Candace is far more troubling to me and just a danger. I think, again, she's also a cancer to the conservative movement, but I'm not voting for either of these people.

[A]

Yeah, I. I think I would likely not vote for either of them. I would probably listen to Shapiro with a more open mind. I think there's. There's a lot about Candace that I think make her not good.

[B]

Not good.

[A]

Yes to big, bigly, bigly not good.

[B]

Bad. Yeah. You know, I don't. Again, I don't think we need to pick either of those libs, personally.

[A]

Well, so that's the thing, too, is, like, eventually we can do better on the choices.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe we get some better options.

[A]

I saw an Axios today. Kamala Harris is, like, moving toward another run, and it's like, ma', am, I believe we can do better. Yes, I believe we can do better.

[B]

I believe we could be unburdened by what has been.

[A]

Yes, there are so many Americans. Let's do better.

[B]

Yeah, there's so many Americans. Who is your most loyal listener and why is it Nook E. James 9029. Nook, you are one of our most loyal listeners. I would say my husband is probably number one because he listens to every episode, offers feedback on every single episode. Is like, I don't know about this part. I don't know what you guys said here, but you're up there, Nook. You really are. I love hearing from you and I love that you listen to the show and tell us what you think.

[A]

Yep. I would say Jeremy is up there, too.

[B]

Yeah, Jeremy, he's fantastic. He often sends us things for the show or notes about the show. We appreciate you very much, Jeremy.

[A]

Yes. We love a loyal listener.

[B]

Yeah. All right. I feel like this is a gotcha, but we're going to do it anyway. Would you be proud if one of your children went to work for ice? Hell, yeah, I'd be proud. Why wouldn't I be proud? Why wouldn't I be proud if one of my kids went into law enforcement? I don't even understand the question.

[A]

Yeah, I think we in this family would have no issue with kids going into law enforcement or military service.

[B]

Like, what is that? Okay, I don't understand the premise here. It shouldn't exist. Immigration officials shouldn't exist. Just make it make sense again. This. This is the flip side of the Candace insanity. Like, you make no sense. This. This whole thing makes no sense. ICE is an organization that is there to prevent immigration fraud for. To stop people who come in illegally. Yeah, of course they deport people. They were doing that in Obama administration, and you didn't have a problem with that. And if you do now, that's not a problem with. That's not a problem with ice. You have a problem with people being not allowed to break laws. That's where your issue lies. And so, Yeah, I would 100% be proud if one of my kids decided to be an ICE agent.

[A]

Yes. Well, and also, would you like people who are well educated in civil rights and the guarantees of the Constitution to end up in law enforcement? Because that's the kind of kids I'm raising.

[B]

Those are the kind of kids we have.

[A]

And so those are actually the kind of people you need in law enforcement because there can be problems with the monopoly of force of the state. And if you don't have a bunch of good actors who counter some of the bad actors, you'll end up in a really bad situation. So I think that. Yes, of course. Right.

[B]

I mean, I don't. I don't see why not.

[A]

In this House, we.

[B]

Exactly. My kids are also always like, when they meet other kids who, like, don't know the first five amendments of the Bill of. Bill of Rights. Like, I've known that since I was five.

[A]

Yes. Important stuff.

[B]

Yeah. My daughter's in a class that's nicknamed Apush. It's a AP US History. Very, very difficult, apparently. And she's like, I learned all of this as a small child. She's like, I listened to the Hamilton soundtrack. I don't understand who doesn't.

[A]

And, yes, you know, didn't we learn that there?

[B]

Right? So her joke is, whenever we're, like, in the car and a Hamilton song comes on, she's like, hold on, I have to study for Apush. But, yeah, I teach your kids civics and the rights of people in America. And I don't see a problem with them wanting to enforce the law as ICE agents. If you don't like the law, go change the law. Go try to run on it. Run on it. That's like, what continues to be my problem with Democrats and illegal immigration. They will never run on, I want an open border. But that's ultimately what they're saying. They're saying, I would like to have an open border, but they can't run on it because they know they would never win again because Americans don't want that. So they kind of try to sneak it in like Biden did. And Americans noticed when the border was open, so they're in a tough situation, but I don't see why it should be our job to help them out of it. Because you want something, you should run on it.

[A]

Yeah. Also, tactically speaking, like, you turned me from an immigration squish into an immigration hawk.

[B]

You lost mk.

[A]

Your. Your actions had consequences.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With this voter, and honestly, with a lot of voters now, that doesn't mean they stay where they are forever. But they were upset about the chaos for a reason. And we have to have rules, and it is not an operable situation to use the Statue of Liberty engraving to run policy.

[B]

That's right. Right.

[A]

Like, that's. That. That's not an answer to how you secure borders.

[B]

Right, right. As an immigrant, I can say that I oppose illegal immigration, and I think we should need to have a secure border. That's what you need to have a country. You need laws, you need rules. That's the way it works. What topics have y' all agreed to agree to disagree on?

[A]

I mean, people hurt some of them.

[B]

Occasionally people hurt us. I think we see the attacks on the Venezuelan drug boats differently. The thing is that we do agree on a lot of things in general. Otherwise, I don't know that we would have signed up to do the show.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Part of it is that we, I feel like, come from a similar place ideologically. But, yeah, of course we're going to disagree on things. I feel like. Here's what I think. I think that I have become less libertarian as I've gotten older, and I think we both started from a more libertarian place. And I've. Yes, I've decreased in libertarianism. I just don't think it works when other people aren't libertarians, too. Like, I think libertarianism only works when everybody's libertarian. Because if you're like, you know, I don't think the government should try to change policy through, like, tax credits, for example. And then the Democrats get in and they're like, I'm going to alter, you know, social policy via funding from the government. You can't have that. Then only one side is winning, and it's just, you know, doesn't work out.

[A]

Yeah. I think I used to be much more libertarian, but often the consequences of those policies end up being bad in real life. Or like you said, you end up in a Situation where you feel sort of unilaterally disarmed, which is how a lot of conservatives feel on a regular basis. And honestly, a lot of the, a lot of the cultural wins of a vibe shift Trump era are simply in bullying corporations and elite institutions enough that they'll just be neutral. Like, that's, that's a win for me. But I don't object to the bullying, to neutrality. I don't want to bully them into being everything I want. I don't desire that. But a lot of, you know, there are libertarians who would say, like, any of the pushing is wrong. And I don't agree with that part.

[B]

Right. Yep, yep. We have to be neutral.

[A]

Yeah, you do have to, like, be strong enough. Again, this is like a cultural self respect thing. You have to have enough respect for your own values to say, like, no, we don't want to get pushed around by Target or by Starbucks or whoever it is all the time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's the fight that we lost, frankly, in public education for a long time.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope we can get back to it in public education. That one seems like a harder road, which is why I think so many conservatives are for school vouchers. They just make sense if you could opt out of the system. But it's funny because I actually don't think we should abandon public schools. I think we do need to fight for that neutrality. I don't know. There's a lot of things about. I love vouchers. Don't get me wrong. Absolutely. School choice is one of my top issues and I support it completely. But in a lot of places, there just aren't private schools that the kids can go to and there aren't other options. And until then, we need to fight for those public schools to be ideologically neutral and that fight continues.

[A]

I think there's good news in the fact that the New York Times keeps covering the.

[B]

The kids can't read good.

[A]

The UC San Diego. Yeah. The kids can't read good. They can't do math good. Just confronting these things is important and leads us closer to a world in which you can send your kid to a neighborhood school where they do reading, writing and arithmetic. That is what the vast, vast majority of parents want from a school. And if they would do it, they'd win a lot of hearts and minds.

[B]

That's all parents want. It's really not that hard. All right, last question. Mk. Let's do it. What would be some dream long term career goals, your own cable show, writing more books? Keep up the good work. Oh, I don't have dreams. I do not dream of labor.

[A]

I wrestle with this because I'm like, is there something I should be doing? And again, I'm not much of a planner, but I wonder, like, is there some big work that I need to be working on? I do think I. I wish that I had more brain capacity to do harder and deeper work than I do a lot of the times. And I think that might be a stage of life and parenting issue. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah. But as you said, fog is real.

[A]

Yeah. Well. And as you said the other day when we jumped on a call and you're like, why do I write? Writing is hard.

[B]

Writing is so hard.

[A]

Writing is hard. Talking is easier. And I happen to have been given the ability to talk. But there are times when I'm like, I really. I need to retrain my brain as, as the kids are not doing in school.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To write longer form and to read longer form.

[B]

You know, I really don't have any other goals. I hate to say that because it sounds like I. I've given up, but I like where I am. I. I love having this show. I love having my own show. Love writing for the New York Post and for Fox and other places. I. I like it. I. And I like my balance with. With the kids. I like taking time off. I'm about to take time off shortly after we record this, and I'm really looking forward to it. I'm definitely not writing any more books, wr. And very hard books are like, you know, our book did really well. And still I feel like, you know, it just, the amount of work for the pay is like, I don't think anything is lower than books. Like, I think you could go work at McDonald's and do better than book writing. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm. I'm pretty satisfied with the current situation and not feeling particularly ambitious to do more that could change. I felt more motivated than ever during COVID to write. I was non stop writing. And, you know, every time I meet people, new people who know who I am, it's because of the COVID years. And they're like, you know, you kept me sane. I appreciate you so much. I write you in the Post every week. I really love that. So who knows? Maybe there'll be some other incident that motivates me to not stop writing about it, and that'll be where. Where I find myself again. But for now, this is the whole ball game.

[A]

Yeah. A lot of time for me. The. The question is what is the work for? And the work is for standing up for things. I believe in modeling that for my kids, enjoying the work that I do and the balance that it gives me in my life. And most of all, it's for serving the fact that I can hang with my family and provide a life for them. Yeah, that's what that's what the work is for.

[B]

That's what it's all about. Well, thanks for joining us on this very special episode of Normalely normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

[D]

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[A]

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