← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Normally Podcast: Conservatism in Crisis: Charlie Kirk’s Murder, Faith, and the Future of the Movement
00:31:06
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- [00:00]
Mary Katharine Ham
This is an iHeart podcast.
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- [02:53]
Mary Katharine Ham
Hey, guys. We are back on. Normally the show with normalish takes, but when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathryn Ham.
- [02:59]
Carol Marcus
I'm Carol Marcus. I'm Mary Catherine. How's it going?
- [03:03]
Mary Katharine Ham
You know, it's been a sad week.
- [03:06]
Carol Marcus
Yeah. We were in Mexico City for the weekend, a trip that we had planned for about a year. We got tickets to see Oasis with the kids and we almost canceled. And we didn't just because we didn't want to disappoint the kids. But I've just been, I mean, devastated, obviously. Really, really out of it. And I have to say that my very normie, not into politics, not super online husband has also been like that. And we just have both been so sad and trying to reflect and be optimistic for the kids, really.
- [03:38]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah. It's a very hard thing to see. I mean, even if you didn't see it, just for it to have happened at all, for a friend and colleague to be gunned down for doing the thing that we love to do.
- [03:52]
Carol Marcus
Yeah.
- [03:53]
Mary Katharine Ham
And I don't mean to make it about me, but it's very hard to watch this thing that I love that I think is very healing. Talking to people who believe differently from you. I grew up with all people who disagree with me same. And I have always engaged with them in civil and almost all the time kind ways. Like, I'm sure I've misstepped here and there. But, like, I think that's what matters. I think that's what changes minds. I think that's what works to save entire civilizations. And to have that be the thing that is attacked in addition to a human that I knew is devastating.
- [04:34]
Carol Marcus
It's hard to recover from. We're going to do a whole episode on the Charlie Kirk murder. We're going to take it from three different perspectives. We're going to do the future of the country, the future of the conservative movement, and then how to parent in the wake of this, what we should do differently, what we do well now, that kind of thing. So let's get into it. Future of the country. I felt like we were in a very optimistic place for the last almost year. I have to tell you that it was from the Donald Trump reelection. I have felt like we were recovering in so many ways that I. I really did feel good about where we were going. And I understood that not everybody agreed with everything he was doing. And obviously I don't agree with every single thing. Even though I hate to say stuff like that in this moment. I hate the I didn't agree with everything, blah, blah, blah.
- [05:27]
Mary Katharine Ham
You don't have to.
- [05:28]
Carol Marcus
You don't, you don't have to. It makes no sense to agree with everything. I don't agree with everything you say. I feel like we largely agree, but like, you know, it's just, we're go. We're different people and that's okay. But, you know, I, I have felt very good about a lot of things in the last year and this has. It's shaken that a little bit. It's shaken that where I am afraid of, not just where I think the left is. I'm afraid of kind of normal people, the, the doctors and the nurses and the teachers and the accountants who have been fired in the wake of saying truly despicable things online about Charlie Kirk's murder. I'm afraid that we are. That these people live among us and they hate us and want us dead. And like you said, you know, you and I grew up in places where people largely disagreed with us. And I thought that we could just do that in a kind, respectful fashion. And now I no longer know.
- [06:29]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah. I think in my personal life I have been careful for the past, I would say 10 years or so about what organizations I associate my family with. Keeping my job sort of hush hush when I'm entering a new space, at schools, at kid activities, when I'm seeking medical care. Now, I think a lot of my friends on the left would tell me that's crazy. That's, that's paranoid. Why would you do that? I don't think it feels that paranoid.
- [06:55]
Carol Marcus
It doesn't at all.
- [06:57]
Mary Katharine Ham
It does worry me that someone would take their feelings about my beliefs out on my family and on services that we need. If you are in a position of public trust and you are incapable of regulating your emotions to the agree to the degree that not only do you have the feeling, feeling that someone should be killed for their political disagreements with you, but you want to broadcast that.
- [07:21]
Carol Marcus
Right.
- [07:22]
Mary Katharine Ham
I have some really serious questions. I have some really serious questions. And I am a person who has written a book about cancel culture being bad before it had a name.
- [07:31]
Carol Marcus
Right.
- [07:31]
Mary Katharine Ham
I have defended Trevor, Noah, James Gunn, any number of liberals for old bad tweets. I think offensive jokes are largely pretty good. Yeah, like all of the things, tweets, old tweets, shouldn't be a problem, all that kind of stuff. I don't want them all dug up. I feel like a Lot of this stuff is something that would have been fireable before Cancel Culture existed.
- [07:53]
Carol Marcus
Right. That's sort of the difference here. It's that this isn't an uncomfortable joke you made 10 years ago. It's not something that was ever okay to dance on someone's grave. And also, just, you know, the people who think that they're being magnanimous or something by saying, like, well, I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk on all of these things. And they list everything that they think is terrible that he's ever said, you know, But. But it's. It's still wrong to kill him. Like, you could just go jump right ahead to, it was wrong to kill him. Like, you don't have to do that. Nobody. When Grandma dies, nobody's like, here are all the offensive things she's ever said at parties. You know, they just warn Grandma. They. That's it.
- [08:35]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, I agree with you. And. And also, people are allowed to be a jerk about someone who just died. Right. Like, and. And I don't think that's a fireable offense. I do think of all the things we could ask most people to agree on, agreeing as a free society with free speech, that it is not good to murder someone for that speech is a pretty good one that we could be almost unanimous on.
- [09:00]
Carol Marcus
Yeah.
- [09:01]
Mary Katharine Ham
And I have been disturbed by how many people do not agree. And to the practitioners of the left to tell all of us that, oh, yeah, now you want to do cancel culture. And they'll tell you. They'll tell you you're doing cancel culture. And also, this thing, this problem we're seeing doesn't exist. I'm like, no, it does exist. It happened with Luigi Mangione and the murder of Brian Thompson. It's happening again. I'm less surprised because of the sickness I saw after Brian Thompson was killed. And it is dark. It's dark.
- [09:33]
Carol Marcus
It really is. And, you know, so you talking about where I feel like you and I differ a little bit, I think you're far kinder than me on this kind of thing. I'm kind of in the place of, you wanted this cancel Culture game. Here it is. It doesn't work if we're the only ones getting canceled. Only left gets to play. Like, only the left gets to choose who. Who loses their job over speech. Like, no, I'm sorry, That's not the way it's gonna go. And I think that the only way this ends is if they have to live under the consequences of their own rules. And I don't, you know, I don't see another path. The other thing, I don't think I've heard anybody say this, but I think another huge problem that we're. We're facing, and this is really sort of on the periphery of all the things we're talk. Everybody thinks that they're on a TV show or something, like my Facebook feed. Like, you're an accountant. Why are you issuing a statement on Charlie Kirk's death? I just don't get it. I don't understand why you think that you need to say something and why, like, I get the outpouring of grief. I even understand the. I didn't agree with him, but, you know, we shouldn't kill each other. Sure. But, like, why are you writing 500 words on. On Charlie Kirk when this is not your job and it's not what you do, and people don't turn to you in mom of, you know, national strife to say, what does Larry the accountant think about this? I feel like people have gotten where they all think that they have an online brand. And speaking as someone who has an online brand, you don't want this. You don't want it. If it's not your job, why do it?
- [11:04]
Mary Katharine Ham
Well, and even as people with an online brand, I didn't make a statement.
- [11:09]
Carol Marcus
No, no.
- [11:10]
Mary Katharine Ham
In this. I'm in this milieu. I'm in this work, this line of work, it is very applicable to what I do, a little too directly applicable to what I do in a scary way. And like, you can just. Like, my Instagram doesn't have anything. My Twitter has some stuff. Because this is what I have capacity for, and I'm speaking about it publicly. Like, you just. You don't have to.
- [11:33]
Carol Marcus
You don't.
- [11:34]
Mary Katharine Ham
One thing I hope for the future of the country is that every. I have noticed, invariably you click through or do three seconds of research on whatever quote you come across from Charlie Kirk. And there were plenty of things Charlie said that I disagreed with. Fine. But invariably, every quote I come across and click through and watch it is a calm, kind explication that treats people with, like, dignity, high emotional iq, has a lot of facts at his disposal. And in the end, you go, well, this is like, that's what we're mad about. That's what we're mad about.
- [12:16]
Carol Marcus
Right. And I hope. I hope more people take it out of context. I just want to say.
- [12:20]
Mary Katharine Ham
Well, that's what I'm saying is, like, you. You click through on the Second Amendment quote, and you get this, like, incredibly smart, sensitive, nuanced with all these Caveats, discussion of what having a second amendment is for what it looks like, and what are the realistic dangers of that in a free society. Because he's a realistic thinker. And I just, I listen to that answer and I go, that is. That's something I would go to a campus and say because I am a rational thinker who is in favor of this fundamental liberty. And to have it distorted in that way is crazy. But I think a lot of people are watching the videos and are probably surprised at what they've been told about Charlie Kirk.
- [13:03]
Carol Marcus
I hope so. I hope that they're not just relying on social media posts by their most politically active friends to tell them what he said and what he meant and all of that. You know, Karen Attiah, as we're recording this, has just been fired by the Washington Post. She completely misquoted Charlie Kirk and this is why she was fired over it. She quoted him as saying, black women do not have the brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person's slot. He didn't say anything like that. Like that. He criticized Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Sheila Jackson Lee, but he absolutely did not say black women. And it is a lie to say that. And I'm sorry. Pointing out individual people that he disagreed with or even if he said something offensive about it does not mean that he was blaming all black women or talking about all black women. And it is a lie. And I'm glad she was fired for that. I think that is a fireable offense.
- [13:59]
Mary Katharine Ham
Oh, you made up quotes about a public figure in the wake of his death. That's not very journalisty. That's another thing that bothers me about. Being anti cancel culture does not mean you paint yourself into a corner where every legacy media a hole can never lose their gajillion dollar a year Kush contract. Right. Matthew Dowd over at MSNBC in hour one of coverage blamed Charlie Kirk for his own death. Okay, here, here's the thing. It's breaking news. You have a responsibility to be responsible.
- [14:34]
Carol Marcus
Yeah.
- [14:35]
Mary Katharine Ham
Your job is to control your emotions in public. Your job is to give people real information and barring that, just do no harm. To borrow a phrase from the medical community. Look, he's not good. He's not good at that job. I would argue he's not qualified for that job if he can't do better than that. The last campaign he won is 2006. He does nothing but block people who disagree with him because he cannot engage in any disagreement and he says really nasty things that he later has to walk back. And even MSNBC is like, ooh, maybe that's enough. At some point you're a Stephen Colbert and you're just like, you're dead weight, man. You can't do this anymore.
- [15:14]
Carol Marcus
We're going to take a short break and come right back and talk about where the conservative movement goes after Charlie Kirk. But first, it was nearly two years ago that terrorists murdered more than 1200 innocent Israelis and took 250 people hostage. Today, it seems as if the cries of the dead and dying have been drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred, and the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away, a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of love and support for the people of Israel called Flags of Fellowship, and it's organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And on October 5, just a few weeks away, millions across America will prayerfully plant an Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of October 7, 2023 and their grieving families. And now you can be part of this movement too. To get more information about how you can join the Flags of fellowship movement, visit fellowshiponlinefcj.org that's IFCJ.org More from the Charlie Kirk assassination fallout coming up.
- [16:25]
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- [19:01]
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- [19:12]
Mary Katharine Ham
All right, we are back on normally. Okay, future of the country now. Future of the conservative movement. Charlie built something really big. He was a leader in a way that I am not capable of being. It was impressive to watch. I have spoken at Turning Point events in the past. Even when, by the way, Charlie and I were in open disagreement about things. He would have me come speak at his organization because he liked different voices there. It's interesting the impact that he has had on young people. What do you think happens from here for the conservative movement?
- [19:43]
Carol Marcus
Well, the toughest part is appealing to the young audience. Everybody has a podcast. You know, when I, I've been asked in the last few days like, you know, who's picking up, you know, the microphone and what, what people mean obviously is the exchange with students. But the whole having a perspective, everybody's got one. It's the going into places where you might face opposition and having tough conversations and doing it with a smile, which I don't have any capacity for at all either. I can argue with my friends. I can argue on the Internet going and specifically having arguments. I really respected him for that. And I don't have the just I don't have the same will to go do that. But I love that he was doing it. So it's the young people. I think that the conservative movement should be most worried about not continuing down the path that Charlie was taking us because for the first time, young people were voting Republican. Young men more than women, but still both had shifted. Right. In the last, you know, four or five years. And Charlie played a huge role in that. And I don't know exactly who comes next. Now, names that I've heard that I say a big fuck no to is Nick Fuentes. Absolutely not. And also not just absolutely not. Like, stop elevating this clown. It's crazy to me that this online degenerate who makes.
- [21:08]
Mary Katharine Ham
Not even good.
- [21:09]
Carol Marcus
He's not good.
- [21:10]
Mary Katharine Ham
There's no charm, there's no interest. If you took the beliefs aside.
- [21:14]
Carol Marcus
Right. Exactly. Yeah.
- [21:15]
Mary Katharine Ham
He's not good to watch.
- [21:17]
Carol Marcus
Right. He's only good when he's like, punching Candace Owens. Like, that's really where he shines.
- [21:22]
Mary Katharine Ham
A ran a rack war situation is the only place we want him root for injuries.
- [21:26]
Carol Marcus
But it just, he. He has no skill or basis in this. He is this weird, hateful dude who I just. I find him totally uninteresting. He's never made a point that I was like, you know, even though we disagree, I find him to be like, no, not at. And so I don't know. Otherwise. I kind of think it's somebody that we don't know yet that there will be people that rise from this. You know, people are forming turning point chapters all over the country in high schools and in colleges. There's going to be people that rise up from the movement and do what Charlie did in a. In the same way that. Similar way that he did it in a really smart fashion. And take the argument to the students. A lot of people are good at this kind of thing. Ben Shapiro springs to mind. Ben Shapiro is, you know, I. I don't want to say older, but he's our age. He's like, you know, and we're not going to college campuses. And while Ben does a great job of debating with people, I think he's. He's really stellar at that. I do think it needs to be college age, somebody in the same age bracket as. As these young people in order to have that conversation. Charlie was only 31, and he'd been doing this for a long time. He was able to talk to these young people because he was them five minutes ago.
- [22:48]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, well, and it is tricky because it is a very. It's a. It's a real skill. And I, I actually. So I don't have the skill of building the organization like you did. I do have the skill of talking. Like I, I do like going to college campuses. I do like when they stand up in front of me and have a question that they feel like I've never heard before and they're like, I'm really gonna get her. I just say kindly, like I've heard that before and I am happy to walk you through it. Like the idea that a woman could be a conservative, that's what I'm here for. And it's, it is so much fun. And you could see it in Charlie's clips and edifying to have that conversation and at the end, at the end of a 30 minute hour long session and none of mine were nearly as high profile as Charlie's, but to see a bunch of Harvard students look at you and be like, I thought I was gonna hate her. And I'm annoyed that I don't. Right.
- [23:40]
Carol Marcus
Yeah.
- [23:40]
Mary Katharine Ham
Like that's, that's what you're hoping for, right? That's what you're looking for. So, so I think it's important for people like Ben and I'm nobody, but I would also be willing to take up the mic and do these things. I would not be as good at it. It's very stressful. It's very hard work without the fear that is now instilled. But it's really important for people to get out there and say we are going to continue to do this with whatever security needs being met. And by the way, colleges need to make sure that they are proactively doing that. A lot of them aren't interested in it because speech. But I think that's really important. I think you're right that a young person is better positioned for it and also to be that well read and to deploy that kind of emotional IQ and to parry with anyone and everyone is a very big ask. The thing that's cool about Charlie is that he built this organization that is well funded, has a bunch of people who believe in it, who has many employees. Any number of those folks can take up the mantle. Right. And then there's, like you said, many people inspired who we don't even know about yet.
- [24:46]
Carol Marcus
Right, Exactly.
- [24:47]
Mary Katharine Ham
But I, I think the, I think the murder of Charlie Kirk is affecting young people in a way that most media and liberal bubble people will not understand. They're missing it. People are take, people are taking a second look at their faiths. People who've never stepped into a church pew before are doing it. I wrote about it in the free press today saying, like, yeah, maybe take a chance on God, because dark times are both an invitation to faith and a test of it. And you may find that this is exactly the thing that will help you through these times, as I have in the past, by the way, I also want to say a person who could take up his mantle and have.
- [25:23]
Carol Marcus
Yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah.
- [25:24]
Mary Katharine Ham
Erica Kirk. So Erica Kirk gave a stunning, strong, forceful, beautiful tribute to her husband and his work just days after he was killed. She's fantastic.
- [25:37]
Carol Marcus
She really is.
- [25:38]
Mary Katharine Ham
She is clearly. She clearly has a fierce faith. It will serve her well as she moves forward. A lot of not low profile, not rando people on the left were coming at her for supporting her husband's vision and realization in the. In the wake of his death and, ooh, looking a little mad about it. Yeah, she should be mad about it, guys.
- [26:00]
Carol Marcus
Y.
- [26:00]
Mary Katharine Ham
She should be mad about it. And if she wants to channel that energy into supporting the thing that her husband died doing, she should do that.
- [26:10]
Carol Marcus
Absolutely.
- [26:11]
Mary Katharine Ham
She should do that. That's a perfect way to mourn, actually.
- [26:14]
Carol Marcus
Yeah. I thought her speech was incredible, how strong she is. And look, I'm full of anger. I could just imagine where she is and the fact that she was able to deliver those beautiful words so shortly after his murder. And, you know, people are like, oh, we need somebody to unite us. She has been a uniting figure in this terrible, terrible time. I'm, you know, fully supportive of her taking on.
- [26:41]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, I'm gonna be on widow defense duty for, like, the next two years for Erica Kirk. Like, as she may never know who I am, but I'm gonna be out here like, y' all need to shut up. She's doing a great job. She's fantastic. She's getting it done.
- [26:54]
Carol Marcus
Yeah.
- [26:54]
Mary Katharine Ham
It's a hard job in front of her, and she's approaching it with. With really impressive strength.
- [27:00]
Carol Marcus
Are you optimistic about the conservative movement going forward?
- [27:04]
Mary Katharine Ham
I tend to be an optimistic person even in dark times. And I think, seeing despite what the left would tell you and much of the media attempts to tell you that the real scary thing is the foreboding response of the right to their figure being murdered for speaking.
- [27:21]
Carol Marcus
How dare we?
- [27:22]
Mary Katharine Ham
It's not foreboding, actually. Erica Kirk did a beautiful thing. The candlelight vigils are not mostly peaceful, but peaceful to the extent that they're not peaceful. It's because lefties come and throw things and stomp on flowers and yell at people. Okay? So that being the coming together of our side does make me feel better because there have been moments when our side has done bad things and.
- [27:46]
Carol Marcus
Sure.
- [27:46]
Mary Katharine Ham
But our response to this is not.
- [27:49]
Carol Marcus
Not even in the same universe. Yeah.
- [27:51]
Mary Katharine Ham
Our response to this is not 2020. It's actually beautiful and redemptive. And I hope it continues to go down that road.
- [27:57]
Carol Marcus
I'm also optimistic. I think that this will unite us in a way that the left can't imagine. I think most people on the right are realizing that we have to stop the infighting. I think that a lot of the stupidity, you know, a lot of it's personal. I think people don't realize how much of political infighting is actually. I just don't like that person. And that's where it comes from. Which, let me tell you, when I first went to D in grad school, you know, to work there, I was shocked by this. I was shocked because I was such a movement conservative and I was going to get along with everybody and it didn't matter. And it was like, no. People sometimes just don't like each other. And that's where political infighting comes from. And it's. It's wild and crazy and I think we're going to pause it. I don't, I don't look. I. Am I naive? Do I think it's going to last forever? No. But I would bet we're going to see some reconciliations that will even surprise us. We'll be right back with more on normally and how to parent in the wake of the Charlie Kirk murder. Be right back.
- [28:58]
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- [29:28]
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- [30:28]
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- [31:13]
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Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.
- [31:18]
Emily Maitlis and John Sopel
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- [31:31]
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- [31:34]
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- [31:45]
Carol Marcus
Welcome back to Normally where we are talking about the murder of Charlie Kirk. What it means for the country, what it means for the conservative movement, how to not end up with a child who was radicalized. All of this matters and I think that it's important to have these conversations now I'll tell you, you know, as you know, Bethany Mandel and I co authored a book two years ago. It was about how children get radicalized and it was called Stolen Youth. And it's about how all the different parts of society radicalize children to the left. And as I was on book tour for this, so many parents came up to me and told me the stories and they all started the same way. They were like I lost my child and I was like wow, what happened? And it's always I raised them thinking that they were going to live our values. And we didn't talk about politics in the home. And then they went to college and people filled it in. And I think that what conservatives need to understand is that it's okay to have a perspective with your children. You don't have to kind of tell them about the world and tell them that all opinions are equal. In our house, we know that some opinions are much better than other opinions.
- [33:00]
Mary Katharine Ham
Right? Right.
- [33:01]
Carol Marcus
There's. There's no. Look, I do. I tell them what the other perspectives are. I do. But do I tell them that those perspectives are wrong or my perspective is better? Of course I do. That's the normal way to talk about things. Like, I think that what I believe on issues A, B, and C are the way that you should think about it. If you happen to think a different way about it, let's discuss it. But I'm not going to other perspectives that I consider harmful or bad as equal to mine. They aren't. And I think the kids need to hear that.
- [33:31]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah. I think your book actually inspired me to be more upfront with my kids, because sometimes it can feel like when you're parenting, that there's so much going on that doing the basic work. And actually, weirdly, Covid helped me with this because I was homeschooling. So I was a little bit on the ground floor of creating, I want.
- [33:49]
Carol Marcus
To say, actually homeschooling, not. You know, you came up with the term zoom butler.
- [33:55]
Mary Katharine Ham
I was not a zoom butler.
- [33:57]
Carol Marcus
Yeah.
- [33:57]
Mary Katharine Ham
I was not zoom butlering. I was actually homeschooling. But it helped because I got to shape and build the foundation of their understanding of why they're so blessed to live here in this time in this country. And we do a lot of emphasis on that, and we do faith teachings in our house, and we do not leave it to chance that some rando will come along and be like, hey, I've got a new idea for you that is. And it has nothing to stand up against it.
- [34:28]
Carol Marcus
Right.
- [34:29]
Mary Katharine Ham
You know, I. I don't want to leave that vacuum. I do want my kids to be free thinkers. That's one of the values that we. That we talk about, is that you can have that back and forth. But I will say that having a conversation with my kids this weekend about Charlie Kirk specifically is tough because I don't want them to be scared for me.
- [34:50]
Carol Marcus
Right.
- [34:51]
Mary Katharine Ham
And it's hard to communicate this without them drawing that conclusion.
- [34:57]
Carol Marcus
Absolutely. The other thing that I would say. So, two things. One, keep your kids off TikTok. I know. I Hear parents all the time say, how, how do you keep your kids off TikTok? You just don't let them download it. Like, if you, if you must do Instagram. Instagram reels very similar to TikTok, usually a few weeks behind. I just find them to be less radicalizing, less intense. They come across less crazy stuff. I mean, I'm on Instagram. I never see kind of insane things that I know my friends see on TikTok. Keep them off TikTok. Today, Trump announced a TikTok deal has been reached. Young people will be very happy. I'm definitely concerned about that. You know, talking about things that Donald Trump and I disagree on. I think TikTok needs to be sold. I think he needs to follow the Supreme Court on this. And I think TikTok is harmful. It's actively harming our children.
- [35:50]
Mary Katharine Ham
And it's not accidental.
- [35:51]
Carol Marcus
It's not.
- [35:52]
Mary Katharine Ham
It's harm. It's harming them on purpose.
- [35:54]
Carol Marcus
They're doing it on purpose.
- [35:55]
Mary Katharine Ham
It is a weapon being used by the ccp. By the Chinese Communist Party.
- [35:59]
Carol Marcus
Exactly.
- [36:01]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah. No, that I do think the idea of giving your kids unfettered social media access when they're young and a lot of people do throw up their hands and go, like, what? Well, how can I not give them that? And I understand that Covid made that harder because they made you stay at home, they made you work, they didn't have your kids in school. And you were like, my kid needs these devices to make friends with people because they won't let us go out in the real world. I get that. And also, we have to modulate like that. It's very, very toxic. I mean, I have, as, you know, we both have a brand. I've been on social media since I was a grown person. Like, since it came out.
- [36:43]
Carol Marcus
I was on Friendster.
- [36:44]
Mary Katharine Ham
Right. But I was a fully grown person with a full frontal lobe when I became a public figure who had this kind of feedback that is essentially what everyone gets now. Right. Before, I had that real time feedback about myself. And I can't imagine how I would have turned out had I had that when I was 13 years old. It really would have been devastating.
- [37:08]
Carol Marcus
The second thing I want to say, we'll wrap up after this. But, you know, you talk about faith and it's, you know, I'm often jealous of Christians because I feel like you guys can find openly conservative spaces and it's so much harder in the Jewish world. I'm not Orthodox and I have written so many complaints about how hard it is in the Jewish world to be a small c Conservative, even though a lot of Jews are moving to the right in the last, you know, let's call it almost two years now. But what I'll say is I'm going to make an effort to find other Jewish conservatives to be able for that. I feel fairly open. I'm. I was born in the Soviet Union. As you know. My community is very conservative. I've always felt very open about my politics, but I know that other Jews don't. I'm going to try to forge more community for myself, for others like me, in order for them to be more open about who they are politically and so that they could pass that along to their kids as well. I think you need to have that and you need to have other people in your universe, in your faith, in your politics, so that your kids can see other families like yours. You can't do it in a silo if you are trying to do it in a silo. Please find others like you, whether you know you're Christian or Jewish or anything else. Find other people that share your faith, that share your politics. Raise your kids together. Create something for your children to have a defense against all the bad ideas that they will inevitably hear.
- [38:38]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, I think they've done the opposite of silencing us. Whoever, you know, the shooter, this murderer, the opposite of silencing me. I'm going to be more bold, better than ever. I'm probably going to put more things on more different social medias and, and you know, like you said, join with other families who by the way are having four and six kids each.
- [38:59]
Carol Marcus
Yep.
- [39:00]
Mary Katharine Ham
To the one on the other side and making sure that we are inculcating all of that stuff so another generation can can appreciate the things that we have grown up with.
- [39:11]
Carol Marcus
Yep. In this house we protect our values. Live it. Thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally.
- [39:30]
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- [40:01]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anna Bay sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return, shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back. Upgrade now@washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [41:01]
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- [41:22]
Carol Marcus
Free.
- [41:22]
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- [41:32]
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Means a fresh start and fresh styles. @nflshop.com you'll find the latest jerseys, hats and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. From rookies making their debut to legends, NFLShop.com has it all. Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else and show up ready for every kickoff and big play. Fan like a pro and shop now@nflshop.com.
- [42:01]
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Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.
- [42:05]
Emily Maitlis and John Sopel
The News Agents we're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why? From me, Emily Maitlis and me John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast the News Agents dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current.
- [42:18]
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Affairs and the newsagents USA listening to.
- [42:21]
Emily Maitlis and John Sopel
The newsagents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free Iheart app and search the newsagents to start listening.
- [42:31]
Mary Katharine Ham
This is an Iheart podcast.