← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Normally Podcast: Faith, Politics, and Legacy: Remembering Charlie Kirk
00:37:30
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- [00:00]
Mary Katharine Ham
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
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- [01:35]
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- [02:53]
Mary Katharine Ham
Hey guys. We are back on normally the show with normal takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathleen Ham.
- [02:59]
Carol Markowitz
And I'm Carol Markowitz. How are you doing, Mary Kathryn?
- [03:03]
Mary Katharine Ham
I'm alright. It's gonna. It's been quite a news cycle. Weird as they come. Sad, hard to spend a lot of time in. And I spent quite a bit of time yesterday, both on TV and at home watching the Charlie Kirk memorial service which took place in a giant stadium in Arizona. Hundreds of thousands of people there, many that had to go to overflow because they could not get into the actual arena. And just scores of speakers and beautiful tributes and videos. And by the way, just as a. You've been a political operative in the past and someone who has to put events together, a massive, incredible and nearly flawless, as far as I could tell, logistical event on a week's notice while they were grieving their boss and friend.
- [04:00]
Carol Markowitz
It's amazing. TP USA deserves so much praise for it. And just the event itself was really wonderful. I look, I'm Jewish. I loved the Christian themes all the way through. I thought that. I loved that. Just, just the general talking about God so openly and talking about faith so openly. You just don't get that very often. And in a public setting. And this is what Charlie was all about. I always, you know, after he passed, I tweeted that one of my favorite things about him was his open faith. When you would talk to him, it would be in everything that he did and said. And I love that they honored that for the most part. We'll get into the rest of that.
- [04:44]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, I think, you know, I talked to somebody. I can't remember if I mentioned it here, but I talked to someone last week who was about my age, maybe older, has teen or college age kids, and he said, you know, I thought of Charlie as a political animal, which was basically my impression of him. Although a fellow Christian, I knew that, but my kids thought of him as a faith leader. That's so interesting. Yeah. And I think that was a shift he had very noticeably made. Again, I wasn't the demo for all of his content, so I wasn't always looking at it as much. And I somewhat regret it now because I think I would have appreciated him more while he was here. Um, but yeah, I think there was a shift in what he was doing and you saw that reflected in the celebration of his life, which was a celebration of his faith and the fact that his. His influence on people was in large part to make them think about their own faith, to think about their own purpose in this life, and to seek the Bible and truth and Jesus and that that would have been the thing that made him most happy. And so I think that very clearly reflected who he was. And there were various parts that were beautiful. And I did note, and again, this jibes with him being a faith leader, that 5, 6, 7, 10 of the people I watched speak just told the story of the gospel. I think Marco Rubio gave a 90 second explication of the gospel that was downright perfect and very passionate. You could tell that Rubio really believes this. We really picked a winner in that guy back in the day.
- [06:31]
Carol Markowitz
Oh, he's so great.
- [06:32]
Mary Katharine Ham
Love that guy. Love that guy. Various preachers who said the same thing avoided the thing often that people do, which is to deify the person who died instead of God, who you're actually talking about. So I thought so much of that was beautiful. I was on TV with Fox and trying not to listen to the music too much because I knew I would cry right. If I. If I got too involved in it.
- [06:57]
Carol Markowitz
One of the things that I had heard in the last few days was Dana Lash tweeted to all of the pastors who are not seizing what is a massive revival and expanding on this in your churches. Why? Why are you scared to talk about this? Why are you not standing in the gap? This is the moment I think people really need to look at their churches. And I'll tell you, Dana tweeted that she left her church. And I said, you know, I'm so sorry, because the Jewish experience is such that I have left many synagogues in my life over stupid politics. And I think that churches should seize this opportunity. It is a moment where people are turning to their faith. And I think this is such a great time for churches to grow their memberships, to expand what people think about God. I think it's a really, really important moment. And Charlie would have loved that.
- [07:50]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah. And there's so much. There's, of course, infighting, as there is in any religion within Christianity and Catholics versus Protestants, but about how you live in a secular world as a person of faith. And we all have different ways of tackling it. And I grew up in a very liberal place where I probably took on too much of a light touch, like, oh, well, I don't want to be too pushy. I don't want to Be too this or too that. And Charlie didn't really worry about that. Like, Charlie was just like, this is what I believe. Now, I'm a person who has spoken about my faith in public life, but it was specifically because I went through tragedy in public life. I'm not sure I would have talked about it as much had it not been necessary for me in that moment. And I've certainly taken from Charlie that I should just be more bold about it. Bold, I think, is the word for it.
- [08:44]
Carol Markowitz
Absolutely.
- [08:45]
Mary Katharine Ham
And I think a lot of people are looking for churches that are bold and serious, not churches that are like, oh, can I a little bit just bug you for one second?
- [08:55]
Carol Markowitz
Same for synagogues. Same, same. Yes.
- [08:58]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah. So at the end of this day, not quite the end, because the President spoke after her, but Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica Kirk, spoke. And I want to give my strongest recommendation that you sit down and watch the whole thing. It is. I think it was about 30 minutes long, probably from beginning to end. She is stunningly poised and strong, I would say, from someone who has been through something similar, although with fewer eyes on me than she has, that is her faith that is allowing her to do that. That in and of itself is a testimony. She spoke to Robert Draper of the New York Times, and everybody talks about Charlie's faith, but her testimony that this terrible thing happened to me and I don't understand why, but God understands why, and I'm trusting him. That is some very powerful stuff. And I don't think I'm prone to this type of exaggeration or anything like that. So I was, like, gauging my reaction to the speech. I think that that speech belongs in American oratory.
- [10:18]
Carol Markowitz
She was mesmerizing. She really was.
- [10:21]
Mary Katharine Ham
To match a moment in that way perfectly and to be so moving. I mean, what's the last speech that we talked about being part of the annals of oratorical history in this country? Probably, like, Barack Obama bursts onto the scene at that DNC with Red America, Blue America. Look, he's a good speech giver. No, no doubt.
- [10:42]
Carol Markowitz
I don't know. I never found him to be that great. I can't remember anything he said. Name something he said other than, like, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.
- [10:49]
Mary Katharine Ham
That one I can name.
- [10:50]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, but what else? You know?
- [10:52]
Mary Katharine Ham
No, it wore. It wore thin. Certainly, like, okay, I'll give you that speech and say, like, it was impressive in the room, but I. I would wager that there's. It's so shallow compared to what she was Doing it's It. And that's partly just because it's politics and it is. It is less than talking about this, about mortality and faith and life and death. But I think that one deserves a spot in the. In the history of American speeches and oratory, for sure.
- [11:22]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. And, I mean, she brought the house down when she said she forgives Charlie's killer, which was. It was like a gut punch. I felt it so deeply when she said that. How hard that must have been for her, how hard it must be to say those words and how hard it must be to have that feeling. And I. I don't know. I. It's. It's just. It's beyond my imagination.
- [11:48]
Mary Katharine Ham
Well, and she said right before that, the kind. And I. I wondered if she was going there. She said, the kind of young man that Charlie wanted to save from this purposeless life, from anger, from fear, feeling like there's no path for you, that that's exactly the kind of person he was speaking to, the kind that took his life. And then she went on to forgive him. And let's play that clip. And we're going to let it breathe because it's like two minutes of her and standing ovation, and it is powerful. On the cross, our Savior said, father, forgive them, for they not know what they do. That man, that young man, I forgive him.
- [13:01]
Sponsor/Ad Voice 1
It's.
- [13:33]
Mary Katharine Ham
I forgive him because it was what Christ did and is what Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love. And always love. Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us. The world needs Turning Point usa.
- [14:04]
Sponsor/Ad Voice 1
It needs a group that will point.
- [14:06]
Mary Katharine Ham
Young people away from the path of misery and sin.
- [14:11]
Carol Markowitz
Wow. It's just breathtaking, the fact that she's taking over TP usa. Like, I think they're in such good hands.
- [14:20]
Mary Katharine Ham
Well, and she. I thought she had so many interesting messages and good, good messages for people who are looking to have a good relationship or a good marriage and in the ways that she and Charlie tried to serve each other and, you know, an admonition to Christian husbands where she said, you know, it was a little bit of a manosphere talk where she said, she's your wife is not your slave, she's not your maid. You know, this woman is very capable, and she is. I think the left might be. End up being a little dismayed that she is not the handmaid that they hope all of us are.
- [14:54]
Carol Markowitz
Right. Right. Yep.
- [14:57]
Mary Katharine Ham
But, wow, I just. So impressive. And despite the fact that Donald Trump Spoke after her, really the headline of the whole event. You know, it's hard to outdo Trump, especially if he ends the night, if he's the final card. Right. But she really nailed it. My kids watched with me, and I was unsure, like, is that going to be too much? I let them watch with me, and one of my kids just kept saying, preach, preach. You know which one?
- [15:26]
Carol Markowitz
I feel like I know which one.
- [15:29]
Mary Katharine Ham
And then one of them goes, wow, she's awesome. And I was like, yeah, yes, she is. And I'm glad you get to watch her in this moment. And for me, obviously, it's a little bit of, like, communicating my story to them without getting into aro, getting too close to it on that. By the way, last week was the 10th anniversary of my husband, his. His passing. So it's been odd to watch her do this, but empowering to watch her do it and to be very sure that she's very sure that God has things under control.
- [16:02]
Carol Markowitz
You were my hero before that, but just watching you after it really showed you in a beautiful new light. And I think you've been amazing. Just the way you've handled it with your kids, the way you've handled it in public, you do have a lot of eyes on you, and I think it's harder than most people must real lives.
- [16:23]
Mary Katharine Ham
Oh, I do want to thank you so much. And I also want to throw in thank you to Usha Vance, who had great advice for Erica Kirk, where she said, this is like the last 15 minutes of a flight with your kids, where you have no idea how you're going to get through it, and everybody's losing it, but you're going to get through this 15 minutes, and then you're going to get through the next 15 minutes. And when you said that about, about me, it reminded me of those days, those early days. And that is such good advice for anyone going through a crisis that, yes, you don't know how you're going to get through the giant thing, but you will get through the next 15 minutes. And I loved how she put that.
- [16:57]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, Usha has been incredible. I thought JD's speech was amazing. I thought Don Jr. S speech was excellent. I thought President Trump's speech was very, very, very good. Just all around. I thought it was great.
- [17:11]
Mary Katharine Ham
By the way, can I say they're ragging on Trump a little bit, and I get it, because she said, I forgive my enemies. And he's like, I definitely don't.
- [17:21]
Carol Markowitz
That's, you know, I don't want to be like that's. What I thought also, like, I don't, I don't forgive my enemies.
- [17:26]
Mary Katharine Ham
But okay, well, so what she was doing was like supernatural.
- [17:31]
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Right?
- [17:31]
Mary Katharine Ham
Right. She's right.
- [17:32]
Carol Markowitz
Oh, she's right.
- [17:33]
Mary Katharine Ham
You know, we all go, oh, I wish I could do that. I want to be that person. Yeah, it's very hard. He. At first I was like, look, Trump's gonna be Trump.
- [17:45]
Sponsor/Ad Voice 1
Right.
- [17:45]
Mary Katharine Ham
So I knew that his speech was not going to be Erica's speech. However, the part where he says, I don't believe that about my enemies, Charlie would have. First of all, he's complimenting Charlie, which is what you should do. He's saying, charlie's a better man than I, which is the thing you should do at a memorial. He's complimenting Erica. He's being self deprecating and say, I'm not this person. And he also says, notably at the end, he says, but, Erica, you can keep trying to make me that person. Which actually, I saw somebody, I think it was a bulwark person tweeted today, these two things can't coexist. And I'm like, actually, they need to coexist.
- [18:25]
Carol Markowitz
They literally coexist. They coexist.
- [18:28]
Mary Katharine Ham
And Erica talking to Trump is probably the closest you get to turning that corner.
- [18:34]
Carol Markowitz
Absolutely.
- [18:35]
Mary Katharine Ham
That's what our movement is, in some sense, what any movement is.
- [18:39]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. So the one miss of last night was obviously Tucker Carlson. Look, I used to be a big Tucker fan, both personally and professionally, back when he was a conservative. Whatever he is now, that's not a conservative. And I think he's become really a leftist in so many ways. I mean, look, his top issue is anti Israel, but what's his second issue like? There isn't one. Yeah, it's just grievance all the way down. I don't even want to give him kind of the attention that he so badly craves with this. But we're going to play the clip just so you could hear the maniacal laughter at the end and understand what the. What kind of insanity this man is fallen under.
- [19:23]
Sponsor/Ad Voice 1
Ultimately, he was a Christian evangelist. And it actually reminds me of my favorite story ever. So it's about 2,000 years ago in Jerusalem, and Jesus shows up and he starts talking about the people in power and he starts doing the worst thing that you can do, which is telling the truth about people, and they hate it, and they just go bonkers. They hate it and they become obsessed with making him stop. This guy's got to stop talking. We've got to shut this guy up and I can just sort of picture the scene in a lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around eating hummus thinking about, what do we do about this guy telling the truth about us? We must make him stop talking. And there's always one guy with the bright idea. And I could just hear him say, I've got an idea. Why don't we just kill him? That'll shut him up. That'll fix the problem. It doesn't work that way.
- [20:23]
Carol Markowitz
That's weird.
- [20:25]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah. And like, look, some people will be like, I don't know, I didn't. This is a dog whistle that I don't hear. And look, I'm, I get that. I'm looking to be fair to people.
- [20:35]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [20:36]
Mary Katharine Ham
Hummus eating Jerusalem residents seems fairly noticeable to me. And he's been going down this path. And there is an open fight over Kirk's legacy, which is a proxy for the conservative movement on the issue of Israel and anti Semitism in Candace Owens, notably, who I also do not want to give attention to, is trying to hijack Charlie's story and say that he was coming to different conclusions and it made him dangerous. And that is something that Tucker is implying here.
- [21:12]
Carol Markowitz
Right, right. He's not just implying that. He's implying that it might have been Jews who killed him too. And look, look, I'm also, you know, I hate the whole dog whistle thing, but the Nazis are real happy online. Today I came across a whole nest of them on Instagram who are like, Tucker said it. He said it. He said it out loud. He knew what he was doing. He's not. Candace Owens smart. Oh, he's real smart.
- [21:34]
Mary Katharine Ham
He knew.
- [21:35]
Carol Markowitz
He's a smart guy who knows exactly what he's saying. Look, from the Jewish perspective, at least he admits that it was Jews in Jerusalem. The lie now is that Jews have never been in Jerusalem. This is all. We just got there. Look, I think, you know, I don't want to give too much attention, but.
- [21:54]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, well, I was going to say to me that the laugh is the tell because he's saying, look, I'm doing this kind of like edgy thing and he cracks up at the end. You don't crack up about Jesus being killed.
- [22:09]
Carol Markowitz
No, you don't. Right.
- [22:10]
Mary Katharine Ham
But in this context, he realizes he's saying something that's like, hehehe, am I gonna get away with it? And that to me was the moment that you go, oh, okay, I see what's going on. And look, he said many other sensible things in his eulogy, but like, this.
- [22:24]
Carol Markowitz
Is someone's because he's a smart guy who's not going to just give you a Jew hating speech at Charlie Kirk's memorial. He knows exactly what to do. So it's unfortunate. I'm sad that he's gone down this path. I used to really like him and, you know, now I just see him for what he is.
- [22:42]
Mary Katharine Ham
Well, and it's tough because you watch somebody who I used to like as well and respect in many ways, and once you see figures who, once they latch on to anti Semitism as their sort of raison d', etre, it is in everything. And you can find it in everything. And there's, you know, of course, a nest of online Nazis who will tell you that you're right about whatever, whatever theory you want to bring to the table. And it is. It's hard to watch.
- [23:12]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, it's tough. It really is. And you know, it's civilizationally, it goes the same way. If a society grabs on to antisemitism, that society collapses. It's just part of a package of decline. And I hope that conservatives don't follow Tucker down this path. I have to say, so far they're not. Even with his massive audience, conservatives remain barely sane on Jews, barely sane on Israel. Could it all change? Of course it could. And obviously conservatives, conservative Jews like me, are worried about his influence. But for now, he is a periphery. He is the fringe.
- [23:51]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, well, and I think the rest of that service, because there were many words said, reflects the fact that this is such a small part of it nonetheless, disappointing to see in that moment. Absolutely. I know we're taking up your time with this podcast. Take some of your time and watch the entire Erica Kirk speech. I think you will see a generational force in our, not just politics, but in our culture emerging on that stage.
- [24:17]
Carol Markowitz
We'll be right back with more on normalely.
- [24:21]
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- [27:08]
Carol Markowitz
Welcome back to Normally, where the left is taking the Charlie Kirk assassination in a totally new direction, which is obviously very bizarre. They've become free speech absolutists with the Jimmy Kimmel firing. But beyond that, for example, yesterday Destiny, the Omni liberal who was once considered the sane liberal that conservatives should be having debates with, said this Charlie Kirk memorial is indistinguishable from a Nazi rally and fuck anyone who wants to pretend it's not. And Erik Erickson retweeted that and said the rally in which a widow forgave her husband's assassin. They really, in so many ways have lost the plot with this. What's been going on with the Jimmy Kimmel firing? It's bananas to me. He lied about who the shooter was. His bosses asked him to apologize, he refused, and now he is suspended. That is an insane chain of events to defend and to pretend that something about free speech was going on here.
- [28:15]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, he obviously lied. This is where I'm going to be easier than you on the, on the free speech, the brand new free speech brigades. Because I do think that Brendan Carr should have shut his mouth. Listen, if Carr had shut his mouth, this man would have been out of a job within a week and a half anyway. Arguably, he might be resurrected because of Brendan Carr making these implications and threats on the same day as ABC had decided to deal with him disciplinarily.
- [28:46]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [28:47]
Mary Katharine Ham
And like, just, just don't. Just don't.
- [28:50]
Carol Markowitz
That's also just the fact that it seemed like ABC was using this as an excuse. I mean, he has said vile things in the past. I mean, really, truly disgusting. He blamed Republican politicians for school shootings. And then when there was an outcry the next day, he was like, I think that all your Republican voters are mad about this because, you know, you're responsible too. He made sure to draw the distinction between politicians and the voters and saying, if you vote Republican, you're responsible for school shootings. I never found him funny. I thought he was deeply divisive and just lacked any humor whatsoever. Give that job to Nate Brigettsi. Watch the ratings go up.
- [29:35]
Mary Katharine Ham
Here's the thing is that, like, first of all, I think they're full of it. The news, free speech folks. Obviously I actually agree with them about Carr and also their enthusiasm for the cause of a millionaire late night host versus the father of two who was shot through the neck for debating on campus is very noticeable. And my friend Jessica Tarloff, who I respect and enjoy debating with on Fox, said to a New York Times writer, I believe today that, like, it's not fair to say that they care more about Kimmel than they do about Kirk. And I'm like, I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. And I noticed actually in several of the, you know, former Republicans who became Democrats post Trump era, I follow a couple of their Instagrams from like, back in the day and it was no mention of Charlie.
- [30:25]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [30:25]
Mary Katharine Ham
Several posts about Kimmel. So look, I don't want to do the bean counting all the time, but it was quite noticeable. And this is. The media has Been so used to designating who the correct victim is for so long. And they were very uncomfortable with the idea of Charlie being a victim, just as they were uncomfortable with the idea of Congressional Republicans being victims when they were shot at in 2017. And they wanted to move on. Another reason that, like, morally, I think it's wrong for the government to be jawboning people, but strategically wrong, because you've made him into this thing that he really wasn't.
- [31:04]
Carol Markowitz
I agree with you. Obviously, I think Carr shouldn't have said anything and let this all play out. But they're totally using this as an excuse. Oh, yeah. This is. I do not believe them at all. I do not believe them that they really think that the FCC was going to shut down Jimmy Kimmel. No, Jimmy Kimmel upset his bosses. Everybody knows how that goes. You know, when I teach my kids about free speech, I tell them it doesn't include telling your boss he's ugly. So, like, that's how it goes.
- [31:34]
Mary Katharine Ham
We can't live in a world where cancel culture is, like, there is no point at which anyone is ever fired.
- [31:42]
Carol Markowitz
Right.
- [31:43]
Mary Katharine Ham
Only lefties.
- [31:44]
Carol Markowitz
Only lefties.
- [31:45]
Mary Katharine Ham
They can do whatever they want, including wishing death upon their neighbors, broadcast on the Internet, and they can remain nurses and doctors and teachers. That does end up being a problem. I would also like to note that while watching this service and in consuming all of the vigils and all that stuff that's happened in the 12 days since Charlie Kirk's murder, I have heard endlessly about the foreboding nature of the right's reaction to all of this. And yet I just want to go through the actual facts real quick, which is that the number of arrests that have happened that have been ostensibly related to this have been a vandalism in Arizona that was on a Charlie Kirk memorial, an assault in Texas that was on a Charlie Kirk mourner, the attempted bombing of a Fox News truck by two men in Utah whose names were left out of the coverage because it was very obvious that they will of Middle Eastern descent. And so that was left out of coverage. Now we have an ABC affiliate shot up in California by a man who, by all accounts, including his own online accounts, was a very devout lefty who was mad at ABC about Jimmy Kimmel.
- [33:11]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [33:12]
Mary Katharine Ham
And so I keep being told that we're dangerous, but all the arrestable offenses.
- [33:17]
Carol Markowitz
Are from the left end up on.
- [33:18]
Mary Katharine Ham
Their side of the ledger.
- [33:19]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [33:20]
Mary Katharine Ham
And by the way, some people are doing really hard work going through the actual studies of political violence and just debunking so many of them. The data is just off the charts bad.
- [33:35]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. And the corresponding data to this is that only 10% of Democrats believe that Kirk's murder was left wing. That's bananas. You live in a bubble that is feeding you misinformation. And I don't know how we get through these people. I really don't. I have British friends. I had an English friend who posted about Kimmel. I'm like, do you know what's going on in your country? Like, you know the stories we get about you guys.
- [34:03]
Mary Katharine Ham
Kimmel, you know, amazing. I also, I wanted to read one quick tweet reflecting on the memorial. And he does it in a nice way, but this is a left of center person, he says, watching the Charlie Kirk Memorial, I'm struck by how extremely culturally distant I feel from this world. Everything about it feels alien. The aesthetics, symbolism, music, rituals, mythology, gurus, ideas and norms. It feels like being exposed to the cultural and symbolic universe of a distant tribe. If I reflect on this, it occurs to me that this feeling must be symmetrical, that they must view the kind of cultural universe I inhabit as similarly alien. And in a strange way, despite opposing almost everything about this political project, this reflection makes me feel more empathy for what that project must feel like from the inside. He's a philosopher at University of Sussex. And no, it's not symmetrical.
- [34:52]
Carol Markowitz
Not at all. We know all about you.
- [34:56]
Mary Katharine Ham
We spend a lot of time with you guys.
- [34:58]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah. You guys won't shut up about it.
- [35:01]
Mary Katharine Ham
Cultural norms are forced upon us all the time.
- [35:06]
Carol Markowitz
Hilarious.
- [35:07]
Mary Katharine Ham
He doesn't know that in his head. Also, I find it so interesting that, yes, this was a very specifically, I think a little bit evangelical, mega, churchy feeling event. And the pyrotechnics some people took issue with. But obviously those were Charlie Charlie's kind of signature at these events. And so they wanted to. It was also a joyous event. It was supposed to be a celebration, which I know can be jarring for people as well, but that's like, that's how the thing is done. It's interesting to me that you would watch that and go, this is weird enough putting and bad. And the things these people are saying are icky. I really. That one I have trouble with. I can't put myself in your shoes, right?
- [35:49]
Carol Markowitz
Not at all. How are the lefties doing with all this? I mean, their poll numbers must be going up, right?
- [35:56]
Mary Katharine Ham
More coming up on normally. But first, it was nearly two years ago that terrorists murdered more than 1200 innocent Israelis and took 250 hostages today, it seems as if the cries of the dead and dying have been drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred and the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away, a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of love and support for the people of Israel called Flags of Fellowship, and it's organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And on October 5, just a few weeks away, millions across America will prayerfully plant an Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of October 7, 2023 and their grieving families. And now you can be part of this movement too, and I know you guys will want to get involved. To get more information about how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement, visit the fellowship online@ifcj.org that's ifcj.org we're back with Normally right after this.
- [36:55]
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Mary Katharine Ham
21/ Terms and conditions apply We've talked a lot about the alleged normie saviors running for governorship gubernatorial races in the Democratic Party. So Mikey Sherrill, a representative, is running up in New Jersey against Jack Cittarelli, I believe that's how I say his last name. And then in Virginia we have former Representative Democrat Abigail Spamberger versus Winsome Sears, who is the lieutenant governor of Virginia. That's been kind of a hot race because there's a lot of controversies going on in Northern Virginia schools. But Mikey Sherrill's getting some exposure lately as well. And she was on the Breakfast Club with Charlemagne, who, although I disagree with him on a thousand things, to me is one of the more interesting people who interviews politicians because he does not fit the lines. He comes at them with unexpected stuff. And he came at Mikey Sherrill, asking her about how she really amped up her worth while she was in Congress. Here's the question in her response so.
- [41:00]
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- [41:02]
Mary Katharine Ham
Million from stock trades, what are they talking about? Newsmax is first of all a very questionable organization that is paying multiple fines. I'm not sure what they're talking about.
- [41:15]
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- [41:21]
Mary Katharine Ham
I don't believe I did But I'd have to go see what that was alluding to again. What kind of came from.
- [41:29]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, you don't know? She left. Check.
- [41:32]
Mary Katharine Ham
Not impressive. Not impressive. Cittarelli also went after her on this on stage at a debate and she was similarly sort of caught off guard and didn't really have an answer for it. These are basic things.
- [41:46]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah, I really. New Jersey and Virginia I like. I just hope that they do the right thing. These are two states where I just feel like so many people are trying to vote themselves to sanity and they just have people holding them back.
- [41:59]
Mary Katharine Ham
No, it's going to take work because these are purplish to blue states. They just are. Virginia in particular has a lot of federal employees who are ticked off at Doge who are energized. Spanberger is a decent ish candidate, has been in the past one in a swing district. But here she is finally getting asked by Nick Minoc, the local ABC affiliate reporter in Northern Virginia, the tough question. The, the tough question about how she feels about the gender policies that allowed a 50 something sex offender to expose himself multiple times to women in high school bathrooms in Arlington public schools, whether she thinks those policies are an issue and should be changed.
- [42:41]
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- [42:50]
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- [42:55]
Mary Katharine Ham
Had court cases settled or judged here in Virginia in the 4th district, the.
- [43:02]
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- [43:05]
Mary Katharine Ham
And in fact the argument is the assessment is there needs to be much clearer guidance in terms of what is an executive orders binding assessment of Title.
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- [43:19]
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But do you personally support these policies? Do you personally support them? Do you support these locker room or bathroom policies? Congresswoman, why can't you answer this question directly? Let's go. Congresswoman. Congresswoman, do you support these bathroom and locker room. Thank you. Why can't you answer these questions directly?
- [43:40]
Mary Katharine Ham
She ran away, Carol.
- [43:41]
Carol Markowitz
Right?
- [43:42]
Mary Katharine Ham
She ran away.
- [43:42]
Carol Markowitz
How could she be not prepared for that?
- [43:45]
Mary Katharine Ham
This is like the number one thing, by the way.
- [43:48]
Carol Markowitz
This is again, this is. They don't know anything about us.
- [43:52]
Mary Katharine Ham
Also they don't get asked tough questions very often. She gets asked, I think she got asked recently how to make her banana bread recipe. Like it's very light stuff.
- [44:00]
Carol Markowitz
Yeah.
- [44:01]
Mary Katharine Ham
Knock is somebody who does have tough questions for Democratic candidates. He asks her several times. She refuses to answer. I ask you once again, how are they supposed to be the normie saviors if they can't come out on the 80% side of an 8020 issue, they.
- [44:18]
Carol Markowitz
Can'T be and they shouldn't be. So Harry Anton had some numbers and he sees things going not super great for the Democrats in the midterms. He says Republicans lead by 7 on the economy, lead by 13 on immigration, and on crime, 22 points. So yeah, look, I want the Democrats to lose, but I also want a normal country and I want them to be more normal. And I don't know how they learn that lesson unless they lose repeatedly on the issues that normal people care about. Crime is an issue that it doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat, you should be against crime. And the Democrats have found themselves defending criminals and saying crime is not that bad. So if they can get to a place of sanity, that would be ideal.
- [45:14]
Mary Katharine Ham
Yeah, I think one of my concerns is that Virginia is purple enough that she'll pull this off and that doesn't have to be the case. The winsome Sears campaign is working really hard and capitalized on a bunch of stuff, but if they win that way, without her conceding on immigration, crime or gender issues, they're going to continue to spin out. They're just going to keep adopting this approach. I don't think it'll go well.
- [45:42]
Carol Markowitz
No, it's not. Thanks for joining us on Normally. I'm actually going to read a Charlie Kirk tweet that went viral again this weekend because I think it really sums up what we all should be doing. Get married, have children, build a legacy, pass down your values. Pursue the eternal, seek true joy. Eventually we will revive. Place the Nihilists. Thanks for listening.
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- [49:06]
Mary Katharine Ham
CT and C21 plus this is an iHeart podcast.