Normally Podcast: Government Shutdown Fallout, Obamacare’s Failures, Trump’s Middle East Plan & a UK Culture Clash

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show ("Normally Podcast: Government Shutdown Fallout, Obamacare’s Failures, Trump’s Middle East Plan & a UK Culture Clash")

Date: October 2, 2025
Hosts: Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward (with guest clips)
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

In this episode, Matt Welch and Katherine Mangu-Ward break down the major headlines of the week, focusing on the government shutdown and its political fallout, ongoing Obamacare battles and healthcare subsidies, Donald Trump’s Middle East peace plan, and a contentious UK culture clash involving first cousin marriages. The hosts deliver their takes with humor and candor, mixing skeptical analysis with pointed commentary on partisanship and bureaucracy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Government Shutdown Fallout

• The Reality of Government Shutdowns

  • Hosts argue the public is largely unfazed:
    • "People don't really care that much about this. Because it happens pretty often and it usually gets repaired pretty quickly." (Matt Welch, 04:05)
    • Shutdowns typically have minimal impact, as “essential” government functions continue and employees get back pay.
    • Katherine notes the performative aspect:
      • “We’ve sent five social media interns home and closed the bathrooms at some national parks is what I’m getting at.” (Katherine Mangu-Ward, 04:46)

• Blame Game & Political Maneuvering

  • Welch details how Republicans passed a “clean continuing resolution,” extending funding at current levels, which Democrats in the Senate rejected.
  • He explains the Democrats painted themselves into a political corner by rallying their base for a high-stakes confrontation:
    • “Their rhetoric has made it more difficult for their leadership to find any kind of exit strategy.” (Matt Whitlock clip, 09:32)
  • Political implications:
    • Effects on the Virginia governor’s race highlighted; shutdowns have tilted past Virginia elections (Matt Welch, 13:10).

Notable Quote:

• “The problem for Democrats is that they are negotiating and doing battle over a shutdown, which they don’t want, because they love government to operate in all the ways and even in ways it doesn’t operate and just pay it for that anyway. Right.” (Matt Welch, 05:47)

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2. Obamacare Failures & Healthcare Subsidies

• Personal Experience with Obamacare

  • Welch shares his direct experience with the ACA marketplace:
    • “I’ve had to be in the marketplace and I predicted everything that would happen to me... including losing my plan four different times and that my premiums would go up...” (Matt Welch, 10:11)

• Critique of Subsidy Expansions

  • The hosts argue post-pandemic subsidies have only papered over the deficiencies of Obamacare by making insurance superficially affordable while raising costs for everyone:
    • “The way that Democrats have solved the fact that Obamacare did exactly what its critics predicted... is that they have thrown subsidies at the marketplace.” (Matt Welch, 10:23)

• Fraud & Verification Lapses

  • Concerns over lax income and citizenship checks leading to fraudulent enrollees, with states like NY and Oregon cited for encouraging undocumented enrollment (Matt Welch, 12:16).

Notable Quote:

• “They expect American people not to care that this is what they want to fund. And American people do care.” (Katherine Mangu-Ward, 12:44)

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3. Trump’s Middle East Peace Plan

• Initial Skepticism, Growing Optimism

  • Mangu-Ward admits some initial doubts due to Qatari involvement but finds herself reassured:
    • “I read through the 20 points. I think Israel... I read this through a pro-Israel lens. But I also want the Palestinians to have a sane and normal future, which seems constantly out of reach because of their supporters.” (Katherine Mangu-Ward, 19:48)

• Political Dynamics and Unconventional Diplomacy

  • The hosts credit Trump with breaking the mold of Middle East policy, referencing the Abraham Accords and his leveraging of “political capital.”
  • Clip from Dan Senor underscores Trump’s central role:
    • “President Trump is leaning into this in a way that he’s not leaned into any deal... He’s putting his name on it... his office in an official role... The Arab capitals and Turkey have to live with Trump for the next three and a half years.” (Dan Senor, 22:50)

• Hamas as the Obstacle

  • Israel and the Arab states are ready; all eyes are on whether Hamas will accept the deal. Hosts stress hostages are Hamas’ last leverage, and their rejection would show disinterest in peace.
    • “The people most invested and proactive about seeking peace were killed on October 7th. Those folks were out there flying kites and sending sweet messages...” (Matt Welch, 25:55)

• Media Neglect of Hamas' Atrocities

  • The Western press is called out for minimized coverage of Palestinian civilians resisting Hamas (Matt Welch, 27:40).

Notable Quotes:

• “Trump has done something pretty miraculous here. And I hope that Hamas takes this deal.” (Katherine Mangu-Ward, 24:11)
• “Moss has been the one that has rejected all these deals... Not Israel.” (Matt Welch, 26:34)

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4. UK Culture Clash: First Cousin Marriage

• NHS Report Sparks Backlash

  • The UK National Health Service briefly published (then removed) a piece downplaying the risks around first cousin marriage, citing “stronger extended family support” and “economic advantages.”
    • “They're not from Alabama. This is a thing you're not allowed to say. Which is why the UK is saying, in its official capacity: cousin marriage, good.” (Matt Welch, 34:45)

• Cultural Shifts & Immigration

  • Hosts criticize British institutions for normalizing practices more common among immigrant populations at the expense of traditional norms:
    • “This is an indication that culturally the UK is succumbing to incoming immigration standards.” (Matt Welch, 34:34)
  • The NHS’s role is seen as especially problematic because it’s perceived as government validation of an “icky” practice (Katherine Mangu-Ward, 36:09).

• Political Implications

  • Conservative pushback, with accusations that government is “bending your culture to the incoming culture.”
    • “We have to maintain our ability to discern things, guys.” (Matt Welch, 37:28)

Notable Quote:

• "It's the valorizing... Like, and, and this is, this is the thing that's happened with several scandals in the UK is that authorities look the other way... They don't admit that it's happening because in order to admit that it's happening, you have to say that this cultural standard is different... and it's bad." (Matt Welch, 36:22)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Nobody cares.” – Katherine Mangu-Ward on the shutdown’s lack of impact (04:12)
• “Even Alabama is like, ixnay on the azin k marrying.” – Matt Welch’s sardonic take on cousin marriage standards (34:04)
• “It’s a real tell.” – Matt Welch, on activists rejecting Trump’s peace plan (20:46)
• “Trump has done something pretty miraculous here.” – Katherine Mangu-Ward, optimism on Middle East progress (24:11)
• “We have to maintain our ability to discern things, guys.” – Matt Welch, urging cultural clarity (37:28)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Government Shutdown: 03:57–14:08
• Obamacare & Subsidies: 10:00–13:10
• Trump’s Middle East Peace Plan: 19:48–28:06
• UK First Cousin Marriage Debate: 32:46–37:33

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Tone & Style

The hosts maintain a lively, conversational, and irreverent tone—quick with jokes, but grounded in policy critique. They often poke fun at bureaucracy, partisanship, and moments of cultural absurdity in the news. Their banter frequently highlights the farcical nature of political drama (“Nobody cares.”), breaks down intricate policy issues in plain language, and doesn’t shy away from controversial cultural topics.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode tackles several high-profile issues with skepticism and dry wit.

• The government shutdown is framed as political theater with real (but overblown) electoral consequences.
• Obamacare’s flaws, especially with endless subsidies and fraud, are explained through personal experience and policy dissection.
• Trump’s Middle East approach is cautiously praised for shaking the status quo and possibly achieving miraculous diplomatic alignment—if Hamas comes along.
• Finally, the UK’s brush with first cousin marriage normalization is lampooned as a sign of confused cultural priorities and bureaucratic overreach.

If you want sharp takes and headline analysis outside of the mainstream echo chamber, this is a must-hear episode of Normally.

Transcript

[Matt Welch]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Sponsor Voice]

Host compensated for their time. I used to play team sports and shared a locker room with a whole lot of women plus 14 roommates in one college house. I still text, call or see so many of those women regularly. We talk about everything, even breast cancer which has affected several of my friends. Breast cancer has impacted all our lives in one way or another, so we know talking about it is important to share, understanding and to keep everyone updated. If you or someone you know was previously diagnosed with HR positive HER2 negative early breast cancer and went through treatment, you might be surprised to learn that it could come back. That's why I want to tell you about a breast cancer treatment called Kiskali. Kiskali ribociclib 200 milligram tablets are taken with an aromatase inhibitor. It's for adults with HR positive HER2 negative stage 2 or 3 early breast cancer with a high risk of recurrence and it can help reduce the risk of cancer coming back. In a clinical study at three years, 91% of people taking Kiskali plus an aromatase inhibitor were cancer free versus 88% taking an aromatase inhibitor alone. Individual results may vary. Kiskali may cause serious skin reactions, liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in serious infections, life threatening lung problems and abnormal heartbeats can occur. Your doctor should test your heart and blood before and during treatment. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening cough, chest pain or dizziness before taking Kiskali. Tell your doctor all your medical conditions, medicines you take and if you're breastfeed, pregnant or planning to be as it can harm an unborn baby. Common side effects include nausea, headache and tiredness. It's all about doing more today to help protect your tomorrow. Visit kiskali.com I know it's tricky to spell, so that's K I S Q A L I to learn more and ask your doctor if Kiskali is right for you.

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[Matt Welch]

See mintmobile.com hey guys, we are back on. Normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

I am Mary Kathy Goon and I'm Carol Markowitz. We are in a government shutdown. Mary Kathryn, can you feel the fear in the streets?

[Matt Welch]

We are indeed in a government shutdown. Look, people don't really care that much about this.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Nobody cares.

[Matt Welch]

Yeah, because it happens pretty often and it usually gets repaired pretty quickly and it can cause inconvenience for people. But the many like actually problematic political things are usually sort of sequestered from the shutdown so that that stuff goes out like Social Security. I don't think anyone's going to notice or remember or care by 2026 that this happened. They will remember.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

In Virginia during this governor's race. I do think that is a is a possible political cost.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Our friend Sunny Wright tweeted the government is shut down except they'll continue to collect taxes and continue to send out welfare and most federal employees will continue to work and all government functions considered essential will continue unintell interrupted and all bureaucrats will get back pay. We've sent five social media interns home and closed the bathrooms at some national parks is what I'm getting at, which is, yeah, pretty much what's going on here.

[Matt Welch]

Well, and here's the thing. Even at this point, the many journalists have had to admit that, like, Republicans gave Democrats what they always asked for.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yep.

[Matt Welch]

Which is called a clean continuing resolution, a clean cr. That means that for a brief period of time, you extend the current level of funding for the government without any partisan Christmas tree of the bill. So the House passes that, it goes to the Senate. The Senate is welcome to pass a clean CR and there won't be a shutdown.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right.

[Matt Welch]

But the Democrats in the Senate refused to do so. Except for a couple who they did lose on that vote, who went the Republican way and voted for the funding bill. And Republicans in the House, I mean, Democrats in the House were making this big fuss like, where are Republicans? They've adjourned. It's like, yeah, because they did their job. Republicans in the House did their job. They passed it over to the Senate and the Senate chose not to. The Democrats there chose not to do that. So they did shut down. The problem for Democrats is that they are negotiating and doing battle over a shutdown, which they don't want because they love government to operate in all the ways and even in ways it doesn't operate and just pay it for that anyway. Right.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

They're negotiating with people who don't care.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah, that's tough. The Washington Post editorial board has a shutdown column today and they say left wing Democrats, like the Freedom Caucus before them, enter the shutdown in a position of weakness. President Donald Trump and his budget director, Russell Vought now have extraordinary authority to choose which agencies to close, what spending to prioritize, and even which government workers to lay off. As Trump warned on Tuesday, we can do things during the shutdown that are irreversible. Whoopsie.

[Matt Welch]

You don't think Russ has a plan for this? Yeah, Russ has a plan for this. Russ Bush has been thinking about this for a decade.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yep.

[Matt Welch]

And the fact is, yes, they can make changes. They can fire people instead of furloughing them. They can get rid of bureaucrats that they don't want. They could later replace those bureaucrats with their bureaucrats, which is a real weakness of Republicans from the past, is that the federal government is staffed with largely left leaning bureaucrats. So this is like not a great plan. The reason that they went forward with the shutdown, and again, I don't think it's going to last super long because they already lost some Democrats in that first vote. The reason they did it is because when Schumer passed a continuing resolution in the spring, he got it from the left base and he's afraid that he's going to get taken out in a primary if he doesn't fight, fight, fight hard enough.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah, that's definitely on Schumer's mind. Matt Whitlock of 10 Minute Drill, who has guest hosted on Normally in the Past, had a really great summary of what is happening and how the Democrats have gotten. Let's roll that clip.

[Matt Whitlock]

Democrats did the interesting strategy of laying out the fact that they would accept blame for this because their base was itching for a fight with President Trump. So they were supportive of running into a government shutdown. But what we've seen since then in the last two weeks is Democrat leaders getting cold feet. The facts here are this is a clean continuing resolution. It follows on spending plans that Democrats have previously voted for 13 times with nothing new added to it. But a part of Democrats strategy in trying to reframe this and try and potentially blame Republicans has been to bring in other issues. For example, health care subsidies set to expire at the end of the year. Republicans have said we can negotiate those ahead of the end of the year, but Democrats adding them into this debate right now is just an effort to try and save face and reframe this debate. The bottom line that we all understand here is the fact that Democrats have followed their base as they've led them to their lowest approv rating in history. But the other most important dynamic to understand here is that as Democrats have painted themselves into this corner, their rhetoric has made it more difficult for their leadership to find any kind of exit strategy. Here's Chris Murphy.

[Matt Welch]

We have no moral obligation to pay the bills for democracy's destruction.

[Matt Whitlock]

So as you hear that kind of insane rhetoric from Chris Murphy, remember he has voted for this budget 13 times. So when he says it funds the destruction of our democracy according to his own rules. And he has voted to destroy democracy 13 times. Again, absurd, cartoonish nonsense, but it highlights the fact the Democrats have painted themselves into a very tough corner that any sort of solution they get to get out of this, they're going to get attacked by their own base because people like Chris Murphy and AOC have said that they're going to fund the destruction of our democracy.

[Matt Welch]

A word on this health care fight. Because unlike most people who cover the health care fights and covered Obamacare, I have been subject to Obamacare.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Hmm.

[Matt Welch]

I've had to be in the marketplace and I predicted everything that would happen to me in the marketplace, including losing my plan four different times and that my premiums would go up and who.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Could have predicted that my out of.

[Matt Welch]

Pocket costs would go up and all that stuff would happen and that we would, you know, enter this death spiral in the the marketplaces that would make everything worse for everyone. And in fact, that's what happened. And the way that Democrats have decided to solve the fact that Obamacare did exactly what its critics predicted it would do is that they have thrown subsidies at the marketplace. Now, the subsidies, as in any other area where government subsidizes, makes everyone's stuff more expensive and just tries to hide the fact that it's more expensive with all your money. So during COVID the Biden administration, people were like, let's make more subsidies for Obamacare so that we can cover this up in perpetuity. But what they did was say, oh, it's just temporary. Just temporary. Yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah, we're going to give 40 billion a year to insurance companies, but it's totally temporary because we're an emergency. Right. They set it to expire. It's supposed to expire. Now they don't want it to expire because they love government spending and they don't want people to see what their subsidies were hiding, which is like that Obamacare didn't work and everyone's premiums are going up and so they want to extend this stuff, but it is crap. And by the way, part of the way they extended it in the past is to get rid of citizenship, like checking requirements, to get rid of the requirements for checking your income. So you end up with phantom enrollees, fraudulent enrollees, double enrollees, illegal enrollees in all these things so that they can go, look how many people we're covering.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right. And how that drives up the price for everybody.

[Matt Welch]

It's just such an extension of every failure of Obamacare and they want to do it on your dime and they want to act like it's solving a problem, when in fact it is making the problem worse.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Matt Welch]

And by the way, also one more thing. When they say, oh, this thing about illegal immigrants is not real. First of all, check all the Medicaid press releases from states like New York and states like Oregon that say, come on down and get your free insurance, illegal immigrants. Check the tape on all the Democrats saying, yes, we would like to provide that.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

That's right.

[Matt Welch]

Yes, we'd like to provide that and then follow the money and how they got rid of verification requirements.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

That's absolutely right. And it just, they expect American people not to care that this is what they want to fund. And American people do care. And I think the Republicans don't often find themselves in the popular position where the media is concerned, but they're in that position right now because the Democrats have gotten so fringy. And I don't know how does this end? Does it end with the Democrats bending?

[Matt Welch]

Well, as, as Matt notes, their rhetoric makes it really hard for them to do so. But I think, look, there's already a couple Democrats who are like what are here? And I think it's more painful for them for the government to be shut down than it is for Republicans who have kind of like, right. Learned to roll through these things. And look, now it will have the effect of possibly changing the Virginia governor's race because Virginia is very responsive to federal action. And if a bunch of people are fired, that will give fuel to Allison Abigail Spamberger, who is the Democrat running over Winsome Sears. So I think that's a risk. When this race had been getting very tight, I saw one poll that was three points. That's a risk. And in 2013, that did change the race in Virginia when the Ted Cruz Obamacare shutdown happened back then. So we'll see. But I just don't know how long they're going to sit around and have their precious government closed.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

It's going to be tough for them. We'll be right back on normally where we will talk Donald Trump's 20 point plan for peace in the Middle East. And then we'll get to how you shouldn't marry your first cousin. Why not?

[Matt Welch]

But first, it was nearly two years ago that terrorists murdered more than 1200 innocent Israelis and took 250 hostages. Today, it seems as if the cries of the dead and dying have been drowned out by shouts of anti Semitic hatred. And the most brutal attack on the Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten in some places. Yet as the world looks away, a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of love and support for the people of Israel called Flags of Fellowship. And it's organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. And October 5th, right around the corner, millions across America will prayerfully plant an Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of October 7, 2023 and their grieving families. I know you'll want to be a part of this to get more information about how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement, visit the fellowship [e-mail] that's ifcj.org we'll have more coming up.

[Sponsor Voice]

On normally right after this host compensated for their time. I used to play team sports and shared a locker room with a whole lot of women plus 14 roommates in one college house. I still text, call or see so many of those women regularly. We talk about everything, even breast cancer which has affected several of my friends. Breast cancer has impacted all our lives in one way or another, so we know talking about it is important to share, understanding and to keep everyone updated. If you or someone you know was previously diagnosed with HR positive HER2 negative early breast cancer and went through treatment, you might be surprised to learn that it could come back. That's why I want to tell you about a breast cancer treatment called Kiskali. Kiskali ribociclib 200 milligram tablets are taken with an aromatase inhibitor. It's for adults with HR positive, HER2 negative stage 2 or 3 early breast cancer with a high risk of recurrence and it can help reduce the risk of cancer coming back. In a clinical study at three years, 91% of people taking Kiskali plus an aromatase inhibitor were cancer free versus 88% taking an aromatase inhibitor alone. Individual results may vary. Kiskali may cause serious skin reactions, liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in serious infections. Life threatening lung problems and abnormal heartbeats can occur. Your doctor should test your heart and blood before and during treatment. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening cough, chest pain or dizziness before taking Kiskali. Tell your doctor all your medical conditions, medicines you take and if you're breastfeed, pregnant or planning to be as it can harm an unborn baby. Common side effects include nausea, headache and tiredness. It's all about doing more today to help protect your tomorrow. Visit kiskali.com I know it's tricky to spell, so that's K I S Q A L I To learn more and ask your doctor if Kiskali is right for you.

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[Matt Welch]

Come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

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[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Whoa.

[Matt Welch]

This thing moves.

[Tech Advertiser]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[TJ Watt]

The US Electric grid is approaching a breaking point. As demand soars from data centers and home energy use, our aging infrastructure can't keep up and the Department of Energy warns that without action, blackouts could surge 100 fold by 2030. The good news? One solution is already here. Propane. It's American made, stored on site and always ready. Powering homes and businesses with cleaner, reliable energy that doesn't depend on the grid or the weather.

[Tech Advertiser]

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[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

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[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Abercrombie in the app, online and in stores. We are back on normally to talk Donald Trump's 20 point plan on Israel and when the plan first hit. I was a little bit on edge about it because Qatar doesn't really seem like a friendly force to either the United States or to Israel. And yet they're super involved in this plan making. But I am feeling better about it. I read through the 20 points. I think that Israel. Look, I'm pro Israel, to me, I read this through a pro Israel lens. But I also want the Palestinians to have a sane and normal future, which seems constantly out of reach because of their supporters. And right now, this quote unquote, supporters of the Palestinians in the west are telling them to reject this peace plan. And I find that to just be galling.

[Matt Welch]

It's a real tell.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

It's a real tell. The ones who are like, it's a genocide, don't accept the ceasefire. Like, it really, you know, kind of could only be one or the other. Tom Cotton tweeted, president Trump's peace plan will end the war in Gaza. Arab states are in. Israel is in. Dems like Bernie Sanders and Chris Van Hollen have spent years vilifying Israel and demanding an end to the war, but now they're silent. They should back this peace plan. And I agree with that.

[Matt Welch]

They should. And they should encourage their friends on the progressive left to encourage their friends in Gaza maybe to do that. To do that.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

Because this is. I think this is an illustration of how unconventional thinking on the Middle east can change the game. This is one of the things I really like about Donald Trump.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Same.

[Matt Welch]

Even when I was more critical of Donald Trump, the Abraham Accords were a result of breaking from this stupid conventional wisdom that the entire foreign policy diplomatic brigade had had for all these years. And he was like, maybe let's just do it differently.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right? Maybe let's not do any of this anymore.

[Matt Welch]

Maybe let's move the embassy and it won't cause World War iii. And that's what happened. And I think that Israel, out of necessity, has been incredibly strong and smart in many, many ways during this war, including going after Hamas folks in gutter, which changes the calculation on what gutter needs to do on the world stage. They're not just sitting over there all pristine anymore.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

Like, yeah, we're going to put your Hamas guys and your terrorists in high rises and give them room service. You're not impervious anymore. How about you come along and try to make this work?

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right? Absolutely. Dan Signore, who is the author of Startup Nation and he's the host of the podcast Call Me Back. I consider him a very sober voice on everything that's going on over there, he says he's hopeful and says this deal is different from the others. Let's roll that clip.

[Dan Senor]

Many of you have asked, why won't this just fall into the same pattern we've seen in the past where everyone agrees to it, including Hamas or Hamas agrees to in principle and then Hamas tries to negotiate or over negotiate and put forward unreasonable demands and then the whole thing falls apart. That could happen. It's certainly been the pattern. Why I think this time is different. One, the Trump factor. President Trump is leaning into this in a way that he's not leaned into any deal in the he's putting his name on it. He's putting his name and his office in an official role in the implementation of the deal and the implementation of the day after plan. And that sends a big message. It raises the stakes. It shows that he's spending political capital big time in a region where he has a lot of political capital and a lot of relationships. The Arab capitals and Turkey have to live with Trump for the next three and a half years. This is not a president who in the last gasps of his administration while he's walking out the door is trying to secure a legacy through peace processing. This is a president who these capitals throughout the Middle east are going to have to live with for the next three plus years. Which may explain why you have Trump, Netanyahu, basically the entirety of the Arab world, plus Turkey and most of Europe all lined up together on one side. Who would have thought? And they're all pointing at Hamas saying, do the deal.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

There's no other way to look at it as other than Trump has done something pretty miraculous here. And I hope that Hamas takes this deal. I hope that Israel succeeds in getting their people back. Look, you know, we all want peace and the idea that this war should end is one that, you know, all of us feel deeply. I hope that the Palestinians can throw Hamas out and start again with a new leadership. Sometimes I'm hopeful, other times less. This deal gives them a chance and I hope that they take it.

[Matt Welch]

Yeah, I hope so too. It gives Israel, if it worked as planned, hostages back. It gives them buffer zones that would make them feel comfortable as the day after plans are implemented in Gaza. It gives the Arab states a stake in making that work. And you'll notice there was no daylight on stage between Netanyahu and Trump.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

I did notice that in the past.

[Matt Welch]

Trump has sort of had some words about like, well, things don't look great in Gaza and how can we work on the food situation. You Know, things like that. Where he got. He got sort of gassed up by that little psyop about the food. And in this case, he was like, nah, you gotta take my deal or else they get to do whatever they want.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah. And I appreciate that about Trump. I really do. I think he sees this clearly. And look, there's nobody that goes to Israel and walks away being like, these people don't want peace with the Palestinians. Every Israeli I know, left and right, wants peace with the Palestinians.

[Matt Welch]

And as we've noted many times before, perhaps the people most invested and proactive about seeking peace were killed on October 7th. Those folks were out there like flying kites and sending sweet messages and making music about peace on October 6th. And they wanted peace on October 6th and then October 7th.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

That's right. You and I were at the kibbutzim where that happened. We saw they had. Their homes were still preserved with all the peaceful messages, and they were all murdered. So, yeah, I think we're in a.

[Matt Welch]

Better chance place than these past deals. And by the way, as you pointed out at the beginning of the conversation, but we should reiterate, Moss has been the one that has rejected all these deals, even though, by the way, they are getting Hamas terrorists out of Israeli jails in exchange, they keep rejecting them. Not Israel.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

And the people.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right. And the concern right now is that Hamas is going to reject it. It's. Israel's already accepted it. All the Arab states are for it. Everybody's just waiting to hear what Hamas is going to do. You know, it's hard to think like a terrorist group, but the reason that people don't think that they're going to accept it is because the hostages are their only leverage at this point. And if they give back the hostages, they don't have any sort of.

[Matt Welch]

So.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

It'S really tough. It really becomes a question of, do they want to see this war continue and are the Palestinians going to rise up against Hamas and say no more?

[Matt Welch]

And they have tried at times, by the way. And we will get video occasionally of Palestinian civilians being mowed down by Hamas for daring to speak out. By the way, those atrocities don't get a lot of coverage.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

No, they don't.

[Matt Welch]

In the Western press. We don't. We don't spend a lot of time amping up the. The Gazan street of people who would like to push back on Hamas. And maybe we should do more of that, guys.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

That'd be good. Yeah. We'll be right back with more on.

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[Matt Welch]

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[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

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[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Shop Abercrombie in the app online and in stores. We are back on normally and the UK is really losing it. I don't know what is going on over there, but their National Health Service a few days ago published a report saying that first cousin marriages are actually not that big a deal and you know, overlooking previous thinking on the subject, they wrote should the UK Government ban first cousin marriage. And they said that there were some benefits to first cousin marriage, including stronger extended family support systems and economic advantages. Because you share grandparents. That's why you have a closer and stronger extended family support system. Doesn't make it not super gross. But also, what about the fact that. And nobody knows this better than people who have royalty and Britain's right at the top of that list. The increased risk of inherited diseases. There's just a lot of problems with marrying a cousin. I say don't do it.

[Matt Welch]

Yeah, I agree. Look, I'm from Alabama and so I'm allowed to say this. I was born there, guys.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

Even Alabama is like, ixnay on the azin k marrying. It's not. And like, look, this is a. This is an indication. They said. Now they've removed this post.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right, right.

[Matt Welch]

Because of outrage. It said it was published by accident. It was published by mistake. Like, nonetheless, like, we, we stand by some of these facts about first cousin marriage. This is an indication that culturally the UK is succumbing to incoming immigration.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

That's right.

[Matt Welch]

Standards.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yep.

[Matt Welch]

One of which includes a lot more cousin marriage, which is a thing not allowed.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

From Alabama.

[Matt Welch]

Yeah, they're not from Alabama. This is a thing you're not allowed to say. Which is why the UK is saying, in its official capacity, cousin marriage.

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[Matt Welch]

Which strikes me as like, in the cycle of, like, the thing's not happening and if it's happening, it's not a big deal. Actually, it's happening and it's okay.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah. Right, Right.

[Matt Welch]

We are at that stage with the cousin marrying.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah. It's super weird. The Tories, that's the Conservative Party, they accused Starmer of taking the knee to damaging and oppressive cultural pract practices. That's really what it is. Right. It's. It's the bending your culture to the incoming culture. And again, look, I, you know, I made the joke about royalty, but, you know. Yes. We know that in, in royalty there has been a lot of cousin marriage. And so it's not that Britain didn't have some of this before, but they are adjusting to a cultural shift in their own country. Sometimes I, I think that, that they should fight back a little harder against allowing this kind of thing and not just bend over. And I know that there's a movement for that in England. Tommy Robinson very famously is leading these marches. But just the NHS involvement in this is the ickiest part for me. It's like, it's not enough to just be like, we're going to look the other way because look, it's legal in certain states as well. I'm not saying that this, this is, is out of nowhere.

[Matt Welch]

It's the valorizing.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Welch]

Like, and, and this is, this is the thing that's happened with several scandals in the UK is that authorities look the other way in this case. It's less like overtly hurtful than other like violence. They look the other way. They sweep it under the rug. They don't admit that it's happening because in order to admit that it's happening, you have to say that this cultural standard is different than the UK cultural standard and it's bad.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

That's a thing you have to say. And they are not willing to say that because the woke mindset and the left mindset in Europe and in the UK is all these things are equal.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right.

[Matt Welch]

We can't, we're certainly not superior.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Yeah.

[Matt Welch]

Even though, like, yeah, in some cases the cultural standard is better here, guys.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Right. Yeah. The labor officials have argued that the ban insensitively targets certain cultures, like British, Pakistanis, where in family marriages are more common. Don't marry your cousin no matter what nationality or race you are. No cousin marriage.

[Matt Welch]

Yeah, just. We have to maintain our ability to discern things, guys.

[Katherine Mangu-Ward]

Let's do that. Thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird like cousin marriage, act normally.

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[Matt Welch]

Ugh. Come on. Why is this taking so long?

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[Matt Welch]

This is an iHeart podcast.