Normally Podcast: Just a Bunch of People Having Fun, Watching Cars Burn

Summary

Podcast Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Episode: Normally Podcast: Just a Bunch of People Having Fun, Watching Cars Burn
Release Date: June 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of "Normally," hosts Mary Kathryn Hamm and Carol Markowitz delve into the turbulent landscape of recent civil unrest in Los Angeles, scrutinize internal conflicts within the Democratic Party, explore the public fallout between high-profile figures Elon Musk and Donald Trump, and discuss controversial remarks made by Simone Biles. The conversation is marked by sharp insights, critical analysis of media narratives, and a candid examination of current political and social dynamics.

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1. Civil Unrest in Los Angeles

Timestamp [03:02]
The episode kicks off with a discussion about recent riots in Los Angeles, sparked by ICE's deportation activities. Mary Kathryn Hamm and Carol Markowitz critically assess media reports, debunking the myth of an ICE raid at Home Depot and clarifying the actual operations of ICE:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "If they were going to do that, they wouldn't need all those assets." [04:10]

They highlight the frustration among protesters, many of whom are immigrants with prior convictions, and the ensuing clashes with law enforcement. The hosts express confusion and disagreement with the motivations behind the violent protests:

• Carol Markowitz: "I'm an immigrant. I don't understand the perspective of, 'you better let me stay in this country or I will burn it down.'" [05:11]

The conversation addresses the ineffective response of local authorities and the controversial deployment of the National Guard by former President Trump, which Governor Gavin Newsom of California opposes:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "Newsom and Bass, the governor and mayor are like, we're doing everything we can. Well, we've seen everything y'all can do." [08:29]

2. Media Narratives and Law Enforcement

The hosts critique how media outlets portray the riots, emphasizing misinformation and biased reporting:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "The media is taking all of these different approaches to covering what is going on in LA." [04:31]

They argue that the presence of the National Guard is being wrongfully blamed for escalating the riots, citing statements from the LAPD Chief who denies the National Guard's significant impact on the violence:

• LAPD Chief: "This is not much different from that pattern." [09:09]

3. Internal Struggles within the Democratic Party

Timestamp [24:01]
Mary Kathryn Hamm shifts focus to the Democratic National Committee (DNC), highlighting leadership challenges:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "Ken Martin, who's just kind of like the sort of guy you want at the DNC...his deputy became David Hogg." [24:10]

Carol Markowitz elaborates on a leaked Zoom call where DNC leader Ken Martin expresses doubts about his leadership abilities amid infighting orchestrated by David Hogg, a young and inexperienced figure in party politics:

• Carol Markowitz: "Ken Martin told party leaders that he's unsure about his ability to lead the party because of infighting created by David Hogg." [25:26]

The discussion underscores the tension between established party infrastructure and newer, more radical elements seeking to primary established candidates, potentially weakening the party's electoral prospects.

4. Elon Musk and Donald Trump Feud

Timestamp [28:43]
The hosts transition to the publicized conflict between Elon Musk and Donald Trump, analyzing its impact on both figures and their respective supporters:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "It's like real people are going to be hurt by stuff like this." [29:28]

They discuss Musk's volatile behavior, including his retrospective support and subsequent threats following a public fallout with Trump:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "I saw somebody tweet that Bill Gates made a visit to the White House while this dust up is happening." [32:37]

Carol Markowitz remarks on Musk's accessibility and the unpredictability of his actions, which seem to oscillate between support and antagonism:

• Carol Markowitz: "He's very reachable." [32:23]

5. Simone Biles' Controversial Tweet and Transgender Athlete Debate

Timestamp [36:24]
A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Simone Biles' recent tweet targeting fellow athlete Riley Gaines, sparking a debate on body shaming and transgender participation in sports:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "She decided on a Saturday night to jump in with body shaming a fellow female athlete for having lots of muscles." [36:57]

The hosts critique Biles' comments, arguing that they perpetuate harmful stereotypes and undermine the achievements of transgender athletes:

• Carol Markowitz: "Until five minutes ago, saying that we should have a separate transgender category was anti-trans." [38:38]

They explore the complexities of allowing transgender athletes to compete, highlighting the balance between inclusivity and fair competition:

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "USA Gymnastics...allows transgender athletes up until you get to the very elite levels, because they know that that's not fair." [39:56]

6. Additional Discussions

Towards the end, the hosts touch on other sports-related topics, such as Coco Gauff's success and the contrasting media portrayals of different athletes. They emphasize the importance of recognizing and celebrating genuine athletic achievement while addressing the challenges posed by evolving societal norms.

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Notable Quotes

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "Protesters putting themselves in harm's way and potentially setting themselves up for a criminal future." [09:09]

• Carol Markowitz: "The violence is a problem in and of itself." [12:17]

• Mary Kathryn Hamm: "Mary Katherine, you are videotaping people setting fire to Waymo vehicles, which are self-driving vehicles, someone's property, someone's asset." [13:53]

• Carol Markowitz: "When you reach elite levels, like, you know, Simone Biles, obviously all bets are off." [40:19]

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Conclusion

In this episode, Mary Kathryn Hamm and Carol Markowitz provide a comprehensive and critical examination of recent events in Los Angeles, internal Democratic Party dynamics, high-profile political feuds, and contentious debates within the sports world. Their candid analysis highlights the interplay between media narratives, political strategies, and social movements, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on the complexities of contemporary issues.

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Note: This episode includes discussions on sensitive topics such as immigration, political leadership, public feuds, and transgender rights in sports. The hosts present their viewpoints with a clear stance, aiming to foster informed and critical discourse among their audience.

Transcript

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

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[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

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[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz. Hi, Mary Kathryn. How was your very calm and no news weekend?

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

As always, very chill. You know, we all have different traditions for how we kick off writing season, right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Molly, what's yours?

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

For me, I just like to kick back and watch X. That's really my way of honoring that moment. I don't burn anything. That's just me.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's really your mistake.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

I don't know about your family. I don't do a lot of civil unrest in general, but I don't know what you guys are doing to mark this important occasion.

[Carol Markowitz]

We went to the beach. We watched it unfold from the Florida shore. So yeah, that was an exciting few days of LA setting itself on fire again. What's funny about it is the media is taking all of these different approaches to covering what is going on in la. So let's start this off with what is going on in la. ICE is deporting people and they are. A lot of the stories that you may hear are actually untrue. Like right before we went to air, I heard that the really prevalent story over the weekend was that ICE had raided a Home Depot and that turns out to be false.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Well, can I throw some context from law enforcement in here? Yeah. So when they gather in a large parking lot, huge numbers of very skilled operatives, those people are not there to pick up day laborers in a line at Home Depot. If they were going to do that, they wouldn't need all those assets.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Those people are simply staging in a Home Depot or a Walmart parking lot so that then they can go out and serve the semi dangerous warrants that they have been given to serve. That's how that works.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right. So because of these arrests and deportations that they are doing on again, criminals, there have been protests that devolved into riots with Mexican flags and fires and burning the American flag. And I got to tell you, I am an immigrant. I don't understand the perspective of, you better let me stay in this country or I will burn it down. Really don't get that.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

I don't get it either. I think and I think, look, this is a situation where in the past pre2020, I would have had a lot more leeway for protesters and said like, okay, the law enforcement presence needs to be like really on their game and careful and all that stuff. And all that stuff is true. Like I don't want them overstepping. I am done with people burning down American cities. And I think a lot of people are done, like, fool me once in 2020. And I've been watching this since, like, what was it? Seattle, World Trade Organization, when we were, like, in our teens. I've been watching this the whole time. They destroy stuff. They stand in front of cars and then complain that the cars didn't, like, leave them alone. You're in the street. They ruin businesses, they hurt people. And because it's for the right reasons, being the left reasons, we all have to just be like, it's okay.

[Carol Markowitz]

They mean well. They don't mean well.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

They don't mean well. And in fact, their cause in this case is stopping the federal government from serving federal warrants on people who largely have already been convicted of other violent crimes. So they're in the country illegally. They have warrants out for them from the federal government, which a sanctuary city cannot block. The federal government comes in to do so, and people line the streets to attack them physically when they come to serve the warrants. And by the way, the warrants, I looked up some of them. Bill Melugian has been reporting on this. The warrants are for people who, again, have convictions. There was, I looked at a brief list, a three Mexican nationals and one Filipino national who had each convicted a sexual assault or a deadly assault with a deadly weapon charge.

[Carol Markowitz]

You want to keep them in the.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Country for sure, not charge, conviction.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And we're just going to be like, sure, stay.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. So the big controversy, of course, is that Donald Trump sent in the National Guard, and this apparently is a very terrible thing to do in the middle of a riot. And Governor Gavin Newsom of California really didn't want him to and is now blaming the presence of that National Guard on the riots escalating, which is absurd. And there's a lot of evidence that the National Guard actually only protected federal buildings. They did not do very much at all. And as we go to air, the New York Times is reporting that Newsom says California will sue Trump over National Guard deployment, which is a great use of California's resources.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Well, and to this point, when the federal officers come to serve the warrants that it is their duty to serve, they clearly need protection of those folks who are unable to do their job because of these crimes being committed upon them in the city of LAPD or California Highway Patrol or one of these law enforcement organizations would be the people to do that. But they say that it took two hours for them to respond. Newsom and Bass, the governor and mayor are like, we're doing everything we can. Well, we've seen everything y' all can do.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Since 2020. It's not gonna cut it to the point about whether the National Guard is the issue and has escalated the riots. Let's. Let's go to the LAPD chief who will tell us whether this is going on, because the reporter, of course, asked him, this is Trump's fault. Right. Here we go.

[Carol Markowitz]

Do you think that the presence of national increase the level to this kind of situation?

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

I mean, you said that it's disgusting.

[Cindy Crawford]

You think that if you control it.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

With them, without them, it could be different situation?

[LAPD Chief]

You know, I don't.

[Carol Markowitz]

I don't know.

[LAPD Chief]

That's a very interesting question. What was the catalyst for us seeing the second and third day of this becoming increasingly more violent? To be able to say it's because of the National Guard? I can't, because there aren't enough on the ground at this point to make a difference. I've seen civil unrest a number of times before, and generally the second and third days are more violent than the initial phase. And so this is not. Not much different from that pattern. But certainly, I think there's a number of things that cause people to come out. Much of it is they watch this and see it on tv, social media, whatever social media outlets they follow or asking them or telling them to come down and be part of this. And they do that, and they come out here, and many come out and just want to see what's going on. They're out there with their cameras, but they're putting themselves in harm's way and potentially setting themselves up for a criminal future. When you look at some of the things that are happening here, somebody could easily be killed. And if you're part of that, then you're going to be facing those charges as well. I talked to the DA just a couple of minutes ago, and the DA will file felony charges on individuals where it's appropriate, but won't be shy about doing that where it is appropriate. And also the potential for federal charges, given the type of environment we're in. And, you know, the federal authorities don't play.

[Carol Markowitz]

Federal authorities don't play well.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And I hope there are federal felony charges at home, too. The thing is, we can't count on that because we haven't been able to count on that for the last five years. Meanwhile, the lapd, the day before the. This had been upgraded to unrest by the head. They released this news release that said, today, demonstrations across the city of Los Angeles remained peaceful, and we commend all those who exercise their First Amendment rights responsibly. The Los Angeles Police Department appreciates the cooperation of organizers, participants, and community partners who helped ensure public safety throughout the day, saying nonetheless, they remain ready to respond should things go badly. I don't know what the disconnect is between the police chief and the public affairs office, but it wasn't peaceful the first day.

[Carol Markowitz]

No, it wasn't.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And protesters are not protesters. Once they're setting things on fire, they are not protesters.

[Carol Markowitz]

Easy call.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah. It's not First Amendment rights to throw rocks off of overpasses onto police vehicles. That's not your First Amendment pleasure there.

[Carol Markowitz]

The three lines of kind of defense about this from the left is, it's not violent. If it is violent, that's bad optics for us. So stop being violent. Or the violence is very contained. And so each of those is getting its own hearing. Obviously, no violence is taking place. You just talked about that. Adam Schiff tweeted, violence is never the answer. Assaulting law enforcement is never okay. Indeed, doing so plays directly into the hands of those who seek to antagonize and weaponize the situation for their own gain. Don't let them succeed. Yeah, maybe the optics aren't really what the problem is here. Maybe it's actually the violence that's the issue.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah, it's a problem in and of itself. And by the way, somebody did some digging and found that some of these groups that organized these protests that became riots were actually funded by the California state government because they have so much money to spare. And Karen Bass and Newsom are, like, releasing press releases at the time about all the money they got partly from the federal government as well.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

That makes it worse because it means you could call up your bud over at the agitators group and say, hey, we actually really need you guys to not be violent. Like, they're your buddies. You gave them many millions of dollars. And they're not doing that because, in fact, they prioritize lawbreakers and illegal immigrants and illegal immigrants who have committed crimes above that over their own citizens.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, well, the media is helping them with that narrative of, you know, those three things. Again, if the violence is happening, it's just bad optics or it's contained. Here's a. We're going to roll a clip from ABC News.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Large group of people. It could turn very volatile if you move law enforcement in there in the wrong way and turn what is just a bunch of people Having fun watching cars burn into a massive confrontation and altercation between officers and demonstrators.

[Carol Markowitz]

So I can't believe that's real.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

That's the local abc. And by the way, you should be able to count on local news to at least understand that this is a problem for local people. I love the idea that applying law enforcement to the law breakers is where things go awry.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's gonna ruin their good time.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Mary Katherine, you are videotaping people setting fire to Waymo vehicles, which are self driving vehicles, someone's property, someone's asset. And they're just having a good old time doing that. And if the police come and break that up, that would be.

[Carol Markowitz]

The problem is over. Yeah, you don't want that.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Who, who normal thinks this way? Like. No, no one. Who is the constituency for this?

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, I don't know. And also Brian Stelter at cnn. He thinks that we don't understand that only a small part of LA is on fire. Not the whole thing. Gotta say that it's only a small, small part of Los Angeles that is feeling these riots. Let's roll that clip.

[Cindy Crawford]

On one level, protests are always about images, about spectacle. You might even say it's about theater. And we are seeing that play out in la and I think it's valuable to have that perspective as we see some of these pictures, especially as we zoom out and we recognize that the unrest is isolated, is not overtaking the entire city of la. LA is home to millions of people. Most of them are having a normal day here on Sunday.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Cool, cool.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, most people are having a normal day. So was I in Florida. It didn't affect me over here. The chiron on that clip was as la. I believe it was as LA riot spread. So do misinformation.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Misinformation.

[Carol Markowitz]

The misinformation is really what we're all worried about here.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

So here's the thing. Because LA is large and someone in a much richer part of town is insulated from this, does that make throwing rocks off of overpasses onto policemen? Okay, Yeah, I don't think that was the take on January 6th. I think the take was attacking law enforcement is bad from a stelter and that it didn't matter that other parts of the Capitol or other parts of Washington were undisturbed by this particular conflagration at the Capitol, was that sure. Do they apply the same standard here?

[Carol Markowitz]

They do not. They do not. So when the LA police chief, as you mentioned, said yesterday they're shooting commercial grade fireworks at us, we are overwhelmed. I think what he should have said was. But think of all the people in LA who are not having commercial grade fireworks shot at them. So everything is okay over here.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

I don't understand it. I don't live in D.C. proper for this reason. I've watched cities do this for many years and they don't seem to care about the people who live in their cities unless they're those people who love to do this part of the city experience. But it's just so incredibly damaging to normal law abiding people and they enforce the laws to the nth degree on those who are willing to obey the laws. So they give out a ticket once every seven seconds for parking illegally in Washington D.C. but something like this, it's fine. They're going to give it a pass for a while.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right?

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Got to blow off some steam in the summer. You know how it is.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Our friend John Echdal, who we love, even though he makes fun of us for being women.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

He retweeted the Brian Stelter clip and said, imagine covering a tornado in this manner. There are nearly, quote, there are nearly 500,000 freestanding domiciles in the city, so destruction was relatively minor. End quote. And then he said that Guy Benson refers to this as anti journalism. Its purpose is to leave the audience intentionally uninformed. And that's exactly what this is.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah, I guess, I guess the analogy also would be all LA matters. Right? Let's, let's pull out for the big picture. By the way, if you do zoom out from la, you will see that largely LA is without riots. And then if you zoom out further, you'll see that the only riots all summer long will be in blue cities. You'll see the whole country without riots, except for Chicago and New York and la.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

What do we attribute this, Brian?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. What could it be? What could it be? A lot of people tried the same kind of arguments in 2020. I pulled up a column that I wrote in the New York Post at the time, but you know, CNN's correspondent Josh Cam Campbell was tweeting about Portland while Portland saying that he was enjoying a burrito in a park and everything was fine. Paul Krugman tweeted something similar about New York when there were riots and broken windows and fires set in dc. Washington Post journalist Dan Zak at the time wrote, you know, he posted an idyllic scene in a park and said Washington D.C. is simply out of control. It's like real people are going to be hurt by stuff like this. And minimizing it does not help them. So here we are, 2025, they're trying it again. I don't think they're going to succeed as well.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And it's worth noting, it's worth noting that the, the federalizing of the National Guard and sending it into a city is the, the subject of the notorious Tom Cotton op ed at the New York Times, which got our, our buddy Adam Rubenstein in trouble for accepting this. Senators op ed.

[Cindy Crawford]

Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Which everybody agrees with now. I mean, you know, they probably agreed with it then too, but everybody agrees with now.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Well, and that's the thing. There has been this shift where like people are going to put up with less of this. And I think the Trump administration, some people are saying, oh, they, they're, they want us to riot. And they say, okay, well first of all, you could just not.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, you could just not riot.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Second of all, if he wants a do over do over of 2020 and would like to approach that differently and you oblige him by doing this and you give him visuals. Yes. Optics of a guy on a motorbike around burning police cars waving a Mexican flag as your symbol. I, I don't think that's going to go well for your party.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. So speaking of losers, how are the Democrats doing?

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Oh, but can I make one last point about safety?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

As your daughter pointed out, who's a teenager, she's like, didn't we just learn that, that they're not that great with fire? So like maybe we shouldn't be extracurricularly setting things on fire.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, she's, she's just very down to earth. She's not super into politics, but she sees the whole picture.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

You know, she zoomed out. She zoomed out.

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll be right back on. Normally.

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[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Mentioned, the party mechanics are going great for the Dems, right? They have a leader at the dnc, Ken Martin, who's just kind of like the sort of guy you want at the DNC who's like sort of anonymous, a little boring. His job is to just run elections the best he can, allocate resources, which is as boring as it sounds, and get people elected. That's his job. And then his deputy became David Hogg.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oof.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Who has been making a bunch of trouble for him as this wunderkind 25 year old who doesn't know all that much about winning elections, but knows a lot about being famous on Instagram and X.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And is basically saying I want to primary everybody and then saying things that the left disapproves of on On Mar. Like dudes like to have fun. Yeah, something like that. Well, what was it?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right? It's like it was something like that. It was very obvious. But I just, I don't even want to give him credit because yeah, he's not totally insane, but he is totally insane in a lot of other ways.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Well, yeah, I mean, he's trying to walk back his insanity of years passed, but in service of primarying a bunch of people who would otherwise be slightly more normal on the Democratic side. So Ken Martin is like the normie in this, if we can name one a normie. And what's his new take on running the Democratic Party with David Hogg as his second in command?

[Carol Markowitz]

So a video surfaced of a phone call that they had and Ken Martin told party leaders that he's unsure about his ability to lead the party because of infighting created by David Hogg. I'll be very honest with you for the first time in my 100 days on this job. The other night I said to myself, for the first time, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. This was a May 17 Zoom meeting of DNC officers. In a recording obtained by Politico, Martin tears up a few times during the call. Yeah, he chokes up. And he's clearly very upset about his inability to do this. David Hogg wants these primaries to happen for people who are not super into politics or listening to the show because you are normies and we Love the normies. The political parties don't get involved in primaries. In fact, if they do get involved at all, it'll be on the side of the incumbent to keep the seat and to make have as many people on their team win as possible. It's not about ideology to the party, it's about party membership. So this idea that David Hogg wants to primary all these people, it's clearly upsetting Ken Martin because he knows they're gonna lose these seats and that is quite a big deal to him.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

There's a universe of about 18 House seats that are up for grabs. Basically, it could be flipped. And the problem is when you start primarying people, you add numbers to that 18 or so, which means you add the money that you have to do to play in all of those. And Ken Martin's looking at his like, numbers and going, oh my gosh, what's going to happen here? By the way? Can I just say, the tearing up is sad and I'm not picking on him at all. The left is relentless. Its ability to exact pain on its own members or on the opposition is really something.

[Carol Markowitz]

Own members even more than the opposition. I would say the circular firing squad, as I like to say, and I've said for many years, never misses. So that's why they do it.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

So. But David Hogg is 25, and I think people need to understand that he has zero political experience and they made him vice chair. They gave this kind of power to a 25 year old. Because again, like you said, he's famous on the Internet. He's done almost nothing in his life except fail at starting a pillow company because he felt it would be really important to compete with my pillow for some reason.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Sure.

[Carol Markowitz]

And he failed at that. So the fact that he's in this leadership role is insane. Even if he does occasionally say things that are not totally batshit.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Well. And he's making it impossible for the normie to do normie things, which is what the Democratic Party needs, by the way. Can I say that both the riot story and this story broke at the end of the week where we had the most Jerry Springer esque breakup between Trump and Elon Musk. Like, the right is just like falling flat on its face and like very comically having this blow up. And the left is like, but we can outdo that. I think we can outdo it.

[Carol Markowitz]

They're like, watch this. It's funny because we recorded our episode. So we recorded on Wednesday. This all hit on Thursday after our episode aired. The Elon and Trump fiasco. And I have to say, our number one fan, my husband, said that we should have done a special episode to address it. Maybe we'll consider stuff like that in the future, but we didn't in this case. So now it's been a few days, and Elon is, like, tweeting through it. Yesterday, he retweeted JD Vance praising Donald Trump with a little American flag. It felt very reminiscent of on the show Seinfeld, when George quits his job in a huff and then regrets it and just shows up on Monday hoping that everybody forgot it.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah. Because this is, like, three days after he retweeted the idea approvingly that we should impeach Donald Trump and Vance should become president. And he's like, oh. He also threatened at one point to decommission some of his rocket technology. I do think there are risks for everybody here for the GOP in the future, for sure. For whom he has promised to spend a bunch of money for Elon himself, who has these businesses that are entangled with the government, as all businesses are at this point, particularly space travel businesses, to the American people who might lose out on the actually really good stuff he does. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

But actually, some, like, tiny account tweeted at him and said, like, please don't decommission this rocket. Like, we need you. We kind of all need to be together. And he's like, okay, fine, I won't.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah, yeah, He's.

[Carol Markowitz]

He's very reachable.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

He is. And like, look, both of these men are somewhat volatile. The funny thing about this blowup is that Trump, even though Trump at one point.

[Carol Markowitz]

The high road.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah, no, Trump at one point was like, maybe we'll cancel all his contracts. But largely, he looked like the calmer of the two. And I do think accusing Trump of being on Epstein's list, which is without evidence.

[Carol Markowitz]

Absolutely.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And if Democrats had that information inside the federal government at any point, we would have known about it by now. Coming back from that is gonna be tough, but there's always the chance with these guys that, like, half of it is pro wrestling fighting.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's the thing. All of my friends who are very committed MAGA people were extremely upset about it. Like, the people who were having a good time and were enjoying it are the people who don't like Trump or don't like Musk or don't like both of them. And they were like, this is amazing. But the people who really like Trump did not like him falling out with Elon. It was, you know, I heard from friends that were like, please tell me this is fake. Please tell me this is just trolling. I couldn't tell them that because I didn't think it was. Again, accusing somebody of being a child molester, accusing the President of the United States of being a child molester is sort of, it's across the line, I would say.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah, yeah, that's a pretty clear line. And they had been. So I think, look, Trump has always seemed quite affectionate toward us, including in the meeting that they had in the Oval Office last week where he's handing him the key to the White House. And like, look, I wish that Doge had been done less mercurially and more professionally and that you could like, I had higher hopes for that than were realized, but I always have higher hopes than are realized because it's the federal government. But so like, part of it is just like, move along, go back to the things that you're good at. But they were on such good terms and then all of a sudden it was like, sad, out of hand.

[Carol Markowitz]

But maybe they're finding a way back. As Elon kind of lovingly retweets him, which is really all Trump wants is admiration and retweets.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And he's still the world's richest man, which means he's got cachet in front of him. I will note. I saw somebody tweet. I should really verify this first, but what the hell? I saw somebody tweet that Bill Gates made a visit to the White House while this dust up is happening, I.

[Carol Markowitz]

Can be your tech bro.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah, exactly. He's like, I'm rich too.

[Carol Markowitz]

We're going to take a short break and come right back with normally looking.

[Ryan]

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[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well I don't know about you but like, I never liked being told oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail] Unlock smarter learning with Lenovo AI powered PCs powered by Intel Core Ultra processors. Head to lenovo.com and choose from multiple devices to fit your passions. If you're a gamer, you can spend less time stressing about GPUs and CPUs and more time to dominating with your AI enabled smart engine which optimizes your game performance in real time. Or maybe you're a scientist on the verge of a groundbreaking discovery and need a device with a longer battery life and AI enhanced tools to give you extra time to finish your research. Or you're a musician preparing for your biggest break and need better, faster AI tools to make digital art a breeze, like creating band posters and T shirt designs. Or you're a soon to be graduate needing to catch a recruiter's eye to land that dream job. So you need cutting edge smartphone tools to build your portfolio from scratch. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel Inside. Plus, college students and teachers get 5% off with an education account on Lenovo.com A Better Future is waiting and it needs you. My favorite thing about Shipt since I signed up for target circle360 no price markups when I order same day delivery from tons of local stores, only a handful of alcohol retailers and items don't count. I won't lie, I've had too much fun being like Markups on groceries, not in my fridge. Markups on pet food, not for my dog. Markups on tools, electronics, home goods, meds. Not in my house anyway. It's awesome. Order [e-mail]360 terms apply for some of us, personal finances aren't just personal, they include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind.

[Cindy Crawford]

Because even though our business is helping guide Your finances. Our ambition is to make it mean so much more Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with [e-mail].

[Carol Markowitz]

The other dust up this weekend. I got it. Just can you guys not do it on weekends? Like, can we every weekend take some weekends off? So out of nowhere, seemingly Simone Biles tweets, bully someone your own size, which would ironically be a male Riley Gaines. Making fun of Riley Gaines buff, amazing body is kind of just a really low blow and confusing because Simone Biles has a pretty buff body.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

So it's crazy to me that in this discussion, which to my knowledge she's never been in before, she decided on a Saturday night to jump in with body. Shaming a fellow female athlete for having lots of muscles. Like, my friend, you have so many muscles, and I am in support of both of you having all those muscles. I don't know why you started out by saying, like, oh, let's conform to traditional feminine beauty standards and not be strong. Was her first outing bizarre on this? She. She went. She went harder by saying, rileygaines, you're truly sick. All of this campaigning because you lost a race. Straight up sore loser. You should be uplifting the trans community and perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive or creating a new avenue where trans feel safe in all. In sports. Maybe a transgender category in all sports. Okay, can I just say.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say this. Go ahead.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

You know who'd been be an interesting and powerful leader to do that?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Oh, Simone Biles.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

If she wants a third category, it also acknowledges that they're not the same as women.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. But I also want to say that until five minutes ago, saying that we should have a separate transgender category was anti trans. Like, literally. If you look up conversations from a year ago, you'll find that conservatives were saying we should have a separate category. Obviously, kids who identify as something else should be able to play in sports anyway, but they clearly can't compete. Boys cannot be in girls sports. So that transgender category is only now okay to say, and only because people like Riley Gaines made this conversation a national topic.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yes. And by the way, the bullying to which she refers is simply pointing out that boys are competing with girls. There is a Minnesota softball team that won its state championship because there's a guy throwing heaters from the mound underhanded to young women. And so that that pitcher pitched a bunch of shutouts, and they won the state championship. Riley points this out, and this is considered bullying.

[Cindy Crawford]

Ridiculous.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

It's bullying from everyone involved to let this person Steal prestige from women who have worked really hard to get to the state championship. And by the way, one thing that annoys me about these 1%er female athletes, as a mediocre female athlete myself, once you have reached the heights of a Simone Biles or a Megan Rapinoe, right, first of all, you didn't have to come up through a system in which there was a threat of men competing against you at any point. You got to the absolute pinnacle. And like, Simone Biles may never be surpassed. You get to the absolute pinnacle and then you're like, oh, but these guys, like, they're not important. Like, their dream isn't as important as what mine was. I'm totally insulated from this. I've accomplished everything I want to accomplish before it happened.

[Carol Markowitz]

Pull that ladder up. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

And now I'm just going to pull the ladder up. And by the way, elite gymnasts in particular are insulated from this in a way that more amateur or, like, lower level gymnasts are not. So USA Gymnastics, I read from Jennifer Say, who's an expert in this, allows transgender athletes up until you get to, like, the very elite levels, because they know that that's not fair.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Lower down. And you're trying to make your dream happen. Yeah, you might run up against a Marissa.

[Carol Markowitz]

Those girls should. Should have to compete against the boys. But once you reach elite levels, like, you know, Simone Biles, obviously all bets are off.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

It's disappointing. It makes me sad.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's unfortunate. And there was a big tennis match. I don't follow tennis, I gotta tell you. It's one of those things. But Coco Gauff is from South Florida, and the people of South Florida were losing their minds when she won. So I do know a little bit about that. But she is the cutest.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Yeah. She won the French Open at. I believe she's 21 years old. I believe she's following a similar track to Serena Williams when it comes to accomplishing these amazing things at stunning ages. And she just seems like the most positive, kindest, sweetest athlete. And I've admired her every time I've seen her win something thus far because she always just seems cool. And she was showing on TikTok today, her little. Apparently, you don't get to take the trophy. Trophy. You get a miniature trophy. And she's like. It's like, carry on size. And she's explaining it to everyone. Adorable. A breath of fresh air.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Let's hope it stays that way and.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

She won't have to compete against dudes. It's probably just high school tennis. Who has to do that?

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, thanks for joining us on Normalely normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

[Cindy Crawford]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

They include a lot more people than.

[Cindy Crawford]

Ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind.

[Cindy Crawford]

Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Make it mean so much more.

[Cindy Crawford]

Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with [e-mail].

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

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[Cindy Crawford]

Grapefruit.

[Ryan]

Cleans like Clorox.

[Carol Markowitz]

And feels like yay.

[Mary Kathryn Hamm]

Okay, we could be here all day.

[Cindy Crawford]

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