Normally Podcast: Landmark Malpractice Ruling Shakes Gender-Affirming Care for Minors

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Normally Podcast: Landmark Malpractice Ruling Shakes Gender-Affirming Care for Minors

Date: February 5, 2026
Hosts: Mary Katherine Ham, Guy Benson, (with mention of co-host Carol Markowitz)

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Overview

In this episode, hosts Mary Katherine Ham and Guy Benson (standing in for Clay Travis and Buck Sexton) discuss three major stories dominating current U.S. headlines:

1. Landmark medical malpractice ruling regarding gender-affirming care for minors
2. The ongoing voter ID debate, with a surprising boost from pop star Nicki Minaj
3. Alarming news about illegal Chinese bio-labs discovered in the U.S.

The hosts approach these complex topics with their signature blend of wit, skepticism, and a focus on “normal” American sensibilities, aiming to demystify polarizing news and call out what they see as mainstream media missteps.

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Key Segments, Insights & Memorable Quotes

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1. Landmark Malpractice Ruling & Its Ripple Effects

Segment Start: 03:13

Summary

• The panel highlights a historic court case where a New York jury awarded $2 million in damages to a 22-year-old woman (a detransitioner) who sued her psychologist and surgeon for rushing her into a double mastectomy as a minor.

• Mary Katherine frames this as “a very big deal and… feels like a dam breaking” for the gender-affirming care debate.

• They read out reporting by Benjamin Ryan and recount emotional testimony from the plaintiff and her mother – including allegations of medical “browbeating” and suicide-threat coercion.

• The consensus among major U.S. medical associations is being openly challenged for the first time:

  “This is a major shift and it shatters this fake consensus that existed.”
  — Guy Benson (09:32)

Key Discussion Points and Quotes

• On the process and alleged malpractice:

  • The psychologist bypassed standard diagnostic steps, “bullying this poor mother who is being yelled at… saying, ‘you’re not in reality mom.’ I think she was in reality.”
    — Guy Benson (04:11)
  • The mother’s testimony highlighted that nothing improved after surgery; psychological issues allegedly persisted, some even worsened.

• On the evolving medical consensus:

  • Guy cites that the American Society of Plastic Surgeons and the AMA are now saying surgical interventions for minors should “generally be deferred to adulthood”—a significant policy reversal (09:03 – 09:35).

• Mary Katherine’s evolving viewpoint:

  • “I used to consider myself somebody who was pro-trans... never to get surgery for kids, never to have any medical intervention. But now I realize that you can't give these people an inch, because this is where it ends up.”
    — Mary Katherine Ham (06:01)

• Stats and the scale of surgery:

  • “3,700 American adolescents aged twelve to eighteen underwent surgical interventions due to gender dysphoria diagnosis between 2016 and 2020.”
    — Mary Katherine Ham (09:41)

• On informed consent and media climate:

  • Guy criticizes the lack of informed consent and the speed with which the process moves; references author Abigail Shrier’s “Irreversible Damage” and contrasts actual censorship with “fake banned books.” (10:22–12:17)
  • “...the media will tell you that you are a weirdo for thinking... and yet... basically everyone agrees with you.”
    — Guy Benson (23:50)

• Reflection on the chilling climate for dissent:

  • Mary Katherine notes that, just a few years ago, even conservative publishers wanted to cut chapters about trans issues from her and Bethany Mandel’s book:

    “Bethany Mandel and I had trouble publishing our book Stolen Youth because of the trans chapter.... That’s where we were just a few years ago.”
    — Mary Katherine Ham (13:53)

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2. Voter ID: From Nicki Minaj to National Polling

Segment Start: 17:03

Summary

• The discussion pivots to Nicki Minaj’s viral tweet supporting voter ID laws, sparking debate about the common-sense nature and popularity of such measures.
• Guy and Mary Katherine review polling showing overwhelming support for voter ID across parties and races, debunking the notion that the issue is divisive or racially exclusionary.

Highlights & Notable Quotes

• Nicki Minaj’s viral question:
  “What sensible, forward thinking, cutting edge leading nation is having a debate on whether or not there should be voter ID?”
  (Guy Benson quoting Nicki Minaj, 17:03)

• Public opinion stats:

  • “I got all this polling... since 2018… it’s all north of 75% support... 81% and then 83% in the last year agree with Nicki Minaj… Even 71% of Democrats favor photo ID to vote.”
    — Harry Enten (CNN clip played, 20:34)
  • Racial breakdown: 85% of whites, 82% of Latinos, 76% of Black Americans favor photo ID.

• On the alleged racial disparities argument:

  • “The ongoing extremely racist idea that black people can't get ID for some reason is just ridiculous. They have ID for everything else… Why not for voting?”
    — Mary Katherine Ham (18:36)

• On lived experience and media narrative:

  • “White libs definitely think [Black and brown voters] aren’t capable [of getting IDs]. But the people themselves are like, ‘We got this. We’re fine.’”
    — Guy Benson and Mary Katherine Ham (23:02)

• Voting integrity anecdote:

  • Mary Katherine humorously recalls Florida's ID and signature-matching protocols versus New York’s looser standards (23:10–23:24).

• Reflections on media overreaction:

  • “It is not Jim Eagle, as Joe Biden said, one of the stupidest and most dishonest media stories of the past couple of years.”
    — Guy Benson (23:50)
  • On the Georgia voter law backlash: “Everything was so performative. We’re already looking back at that whole era and being like, wow.”
    — Mary Katherine Ham (25:05)

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3. Chinese Nationals & Biohazard Labs in the U.S.

Segment Start: 28:07

Summary

• The hosts detail a news story about Las Vegas police and federal agents finding 1,000+ samples of unknown liquids and biological equipment in two properties linked to Chinese national Jia Baiju (alias “David”), already in custody from a shocking case in California (Reedley) involving serious pathogens and genetically modified mice.
• Both are alarmed at the lack of national media coverage, warning of potential bioterrorism and the risks posed by illegal, foreign-run bio-labs operating in the U.S.

Highlights & Notable Quotes

• “Illegal CCP-aligned Chinese national-owned bio labs with transmutated mice in them seems like a very, very large deal that we should not be allowing on American soil.”
  — Guy Benson (29:03)

• “I bet most people haven't heard the story. It's just not that big a deal to the media and it makes no sense. Why wouldn't illegal labs with possible bioweapons not be a big story in our media?”
  — Mary Katherine Ham (29:19)

• The prior Reedley, CA case included HIV, malaria, TB, COVID-19, and Ebola. “It’s already in Vegas… this is not a low risk proposition.”
  — Guy Benson (29:32)

• “It really does make you think how much of an enemy China is to us and we just don't face that reality.”
  — Mary Katherine Ham (30:04)

• On broader implications: “...when Donald Trump moves some aircraft carriers toward China, they’re going to be like, forget it, we didn’t mean it.”
  — Mary Katherine Ham (30:51)

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Timestamps of Notable Moments

• 03:13: Introduction to landmark detransitioner malpractice case
• 04:02: Details of court case; mother’s emotional testimony, “bullying” by psychologist
• 06:01: Mary Katherine’s changed outlook on “giving an inch” in cultural debates around gender medicine
• 09:03 – 09:35: Major medical bodies break with “consensus” on minor surgeries
• 09:41: Stats on gender surgery for minors in the U.S.
• 10:22 – 12:17: Abigail Shrier, media climate for dissent; informed consent
• 13:53: Challenges in publishing trans-related content even with conservative outlets
• 17:03: Nicki Minaj’s tweet spurs voter ID discussion
• 20:34: CNN’s Harry Enten shares bipartisan, multiracial voter ID polling
• 23:02 – 23:24: Differences between New York and Florida in voting procedures
• 23:50: Media’s overblown voter ID narratives; Georgia law fallout
• 28:07: Las Vegas and California Chinese bio-lab discoveries
• 29:03 – 29:32: Why the story matters and why media silence is notable
• 30:04 – 30:51: Reflections on U.S.-China tensions and media narratives

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Tone & Style Observations

• The hosts blend seriousness with sarcasm, particularly when discussing “media consensus,” government mistakes, and what they see as absurdities in recent cultural and policy battles.
• Their rhetorical posture is skeptical toward mainstream narratives, championing “normal takes when the news gets weird.”

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Conclusion

This episode tackles three high-profile current events—each framed as an example of elite narrative shifting, mainstream media omission, or public consensus being ignored. From the legal and cultural “dam break” on gender medicine, to the surprising unity behind voter ID, to biosecurity lapses involving China, Ham and Benson argue for more transparent, fact-driven, and “normal” responses to complicated challenges.

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Contact & Subscribe:
“Normally” airs Tuesdays and Thursdays. Contact: normallythepodmail.com

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End of summary.

Transcript

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[Guy Benson]

Hey guys, we are back on. Normally the show with normalist takes for when the news gets weird, I am.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Mary Katha and I Carol Markowitz. How are you doing, Mary Katherine?

[Guy Benson]

I'm pretty good. We got got a little case of pink eye in the house. It's not me. It's not me.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

That's a plus.

[Guy Benson]

But how long will it not be me? We'll see. I took the offending child immediately to the doctor to get him immediately medicated so he could be immediately not passing it to everyone in the house. Fingers crossed. The sheets and pillowcases are in the.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Wash. That's really, you know, that's the best you could do here. There's not much more that's possible, but I wish you peace and containment.

[Guy Benson]

Thank you. Thank you. We'll do our best. Everybody wash their hands.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Everybody extra wash their hands. All right, let's get into it. Our first story is that we had our very first detransitioner case when in court, a New York jury awarded a woman who is now 22 years old who sued her psychologist and surgeon because they pushed her, she says, into addressing her gender dysphoria with permanent surgery. She had mastectomy. Because of their urging, a New York jury awarded her $2 million in the first medical malpractice suit of its kind to go to trial. It is a very big deal and it really does feel like a dam breaking. Yes.

[Guy Benson]

And we will talk about the downstream effects of this that are already happening. But Benjamin Ryan, who reports regularly on this stuff and it's a great follow, I believe he is at benryanrider if you want to follow him on Twitter. But he's somebody who documents this stuff regularly, he writes. The trial was anchored by emotional testimony from Varian, the young woman and her mother, Claire Deacon. Varian testified that one of her doctors served as an enabler, repeatedly assuring her that the mastectomy she desired would greatly improve her well being. Her mother testified that that same doctor browbeat her into consenting to her daughter's surgery, threatening that she would otherwise commit suicide. And yet the young woman, Varian, said that she regretted the surgery immediately after removing the bandages, her mother recalled, she was still anxious, she was still depressed. She still had all the same issues, some of which even worsened. Every part of this is all the things that we know have been happening in gender medicine, particularly with minors. This psychologist treated her for years, knew about her depression, knew about her anxiety, knew about a possible autism. Part of this story, nonetheless, just sort of fudges the whole process and pushes her through, doesn't even put gender dysphoria as the required diagnosis. By the way, it's in the notes. Passes her along to her surgeon and lickety split, like, there you go. Meanwhile, like I said, bullying this poor mother who is being yelled at. She said she testifies. She was yelled at by the psychologist saying, you're not in reality mom. I think she was in reality.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

She was very much in reality, and they were not. And the thing was at the time that there was only one opinion allowed. What was the book that Mary Kathryn Ham and Guy Benson wrote?

[Guy Benson]

End of discussion.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

It was the end of discussion. It was like, you're not allowed to have any further arguments here. This is the way it's done. This is the way we're going to do it. If you say anything, you're out of line. I say this often, but I would used to consider myself somebody who was pro trans now. Never to get surgery for kids, never to have any medical intervention. But if a little boy thinks that he's a girl, I was very, like, loose about the idea where I would say, you know, definitely don't change their name or anything like that, but who cares? My son thought he was Batman. It doesn't mean we turned him into Batman. But now I realize that you can't give these people an inch because this is where it ends up. I had a column in the New York Post about this on Tuesday. And it's not just the people who get surgery. I talked about a detransitioner who had breast binding and now has lifelong issues, lives in pain in her 20s now. You know, she says, my upper body is permanently disfigured. The idea that it's just surgery is simply wrong. Other, other problems, they. There was a big study about women who took testosterone and now in their 20s, have postmenopausal symptoms that are, you know, gruesome, and they can't live their lives normally. And so there's all of this medical intervention that the kind of normal people who were just going along with their lives and would, you know, thought of themselves as easy on trans realize that we can't be. We can't be because this is where it ends up.

[Guy Benson]

Well, and the reason we can't be. Okay, so first, there's the thing that liberal interest groups and causes always do, which is this thing isn't happening. It's only happening a little bit. Oh, you must celebrate that it's happening. Oh, you must pay for it happening or you're a bigot. Right. This is the process. Right. Well, they did that with minor gender transition surgeries and treatment and hormone blocking and all of that. Pretended like it wasn't happening. Pretended like it was only happening a little bit. It's happened thousands of times, right. To thousands of minors. These are not, it's not really in dispute at this point. And after this judgment came down, many predicted that this would open a dam. And it seems to have. And the reason is that, okay, so I asked an expert in this, who's been following this for a long time, like, why did it take this long to get a medical malpractice suit to trial? We are a very litigious society. Medical malpractice is a huge deal in our society. And yet this happened. And the reason is because the medical official consensus did not allow for any discussion. It did not allow for dissent. They all, with almost no evidence, just said, this is what you have to do. This is what you must push people towards. And Ryan notes that the mantra, quote, all major medical associations support gender affirming care for kids was always a hallowed claim, a hollow claim. What it really meant is that, quote, a few small committees at a few organizations decided to support this in part because of one another. And all the other small committees at all the other organizations followed their lead. But that, that meant that you created this false consensus. And then one broke the pack. This week it was the American Society of Plastic Surgeons said, nope, this is not recommended for young people. And then National Review called up the American Medical association and they were Also like, the AMA agrees with the ASPs that surgical interventions and minors should be generally deferred to adulthood. This is a major shift and it shatters this fake consensus that existed.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah. One of the stats that I came up with in my column was that 3,700American adolescents aged 12 to 18 underwent surgical interventions due to gender dysphoria diagnosis between 2016 and 2020. So 3,700 kids in the USA in just those four years. And I had comments on X of people being like, only 3,700. And we're making such a deal about this. We cut off breasts off of healthy teenage girls because they were delusional and thought they could become boys. And their medical professionals around them enforce that. Like, yeah, 3700 people is quite a lot, actually.

[Guy Benson]

Yeah. When you're, when you are literally intentionally impairing people's bodies with your medical degree, yes, that is a problem. And there are thousands of them. I, I am shocked that it took us this long to get here and that this sort of circular logic of, yes, this is the treatment with almost no evidence survived this long. Part of it is the societal psychosis of 2020-2023. And it made it very hard to question these things. But I appreciate all the people who did, particularly Abigail Schreier, who wrote one of the early accounts of how this was becoming a social contagion, because there is a small percentage that experience gender dysphoria in a real way as young kids. Right. That is diagnosable. But it was vanishingly small numbers and boys, until it became a social contagion. And Abigail Shire wrote Irreversible Damage, which was actually a banned book. Not the fake banned books that lefties say when we take them out of, like elementary school libraries. Yeah, this is an actually banned book that they took all off of Amazon at one point to attempt to stop the distribution of it. So I always appreciate people like her having done that. By the way, at this lawsuit, Benjamin Ryan notes that at one point, one of the president elect of World Professional association for Transgender Health, W path, which is the organization that created this consensus, was like, yeah, they really pushed this real fast. And it did not contain again, beyond even what this pro trans organization was doing. In fact, the psychologist. And this really makes me angry about psychologists taking care of young people who have real problems. The psychologist's first note after she noted her gender fluidity was that he needed to look into what needs to happen to have top surgery. That was the first note on gender.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Sick. It's just sick. Yeah. And the rest of it too, obviously, again, not. That's just surgeries. There's been so much other harm done to people. The thing is that they lead them to believe that they could change their biological sex, and you just never can. So you could dress as the opposite gender. You can call yourself by a different name. You can't change your sex. And I think that a lot of these people go into this not realizing that, thinking that they will become a boy because they cut off their breasts. And when they don't, when they inevitably don't, I think that's what causes people to get into an even deeper depression. And there's a lot of studies that show that they get even more suicidal. So.

[Guy Benson]

Or the. The idea that, that any of this is with informed consent. You hear stories from people who went on testosterone and they're. They're told about some real surface issues, like, oh, your voice will get deeper. Well, also your larynx is going to thicken and it's going to cause all sorts of problems. And then the idea that these sort of newly formed Neo genitalia are going to function in the way that you wish they would is just always seemed like a fantasy to me, as this entire process does and I look forward to many more medical professionals admitting that this is not the right way. Now will anyone admit that they got this horribly wrong for so long?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Right? No.

[Guy Benson]

And bullied people over it. And I mean imagine us having this conversation in 2021, by the way.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, yeah, our careers would be in trouble. I mean Bethany Mandel and I had trouble publishing our book Stolen Youth because of the trans chapter. And we're not taking it to mainstream publishers. I'm talking conservative publishers wanted us to cut that chapter. That's where we were just a few years ago.

[Guy Benson]

Geez. Well, this is. It took too long, but it is nice to see people coming to their senses on this.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

We'll be right back with more on Normally and Nicki Minaj. Let's just keep talking about Nicki Minaj. Be right back.

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[Mary Katherine Ham]

Can you grab one more thing?

[Guy Benson]

I'll come back up for you.

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[Guy Benson]

All right, back on normally, as Carol said, with yet another Nicki Minaj story because she keeps coming up pro all of the it was Trump accounts earlier. Now it is voter id. She tweeted the other day, what sensible, forward thinking, cutting edge leading nation is having a debate on whether or not there should be voter idea id. Like they're actually fighting not to have people present ID while voting for your leaders. Do you get it? Do you get it now? So this is like all part of a larger discussion about how we run elections. President Trump, in frustration, told Dan Bongino the other day that Republicans need to just take over elections from 15 states. He did not designate which states they were. Caroline Levitt, the White House press secretary, was later later asked about this because generally the conservative position is that you should not federalize elections, you should not nationalize elections, that those are handled by locals. Caroline Levitt said, I don't know which. She didn't mention which states he was talking about, but she said he is talking about the SAVE act which would require proof of citizenship in person to register to vote instead of the pretty fly by night motor voter and not required to be in person checks in many states. Now I am not in favor of the nationalizing the elections part, but the voter ID part is not only sensible but hugely popular, which you would never.

[Podcast Announcer]

That's such an easy call.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, it makes no sense like I, I mean, I just feel like the average will hear the question, should we show ID to vote? And it's like, duh, obviously we should show ID to vote. Should you show ID for everything else? Like, you know, come on. And this ongoing extremely racist idea that black people can't get ID for some reason is just ridiculous. They have ID for everything else. They, they. You need ID to enter your kid's school, you need id. I mean, to buy alcohol, you need ID to drive, you need ID for everything. Why not for voting?

[Guy Benson]

Yeah. Also, many were quick to point out that the HR one in 2021 under Biden number one priority was that they wanted to nationalize elections. Of course, of course. Now they're very mad that Trump has said it.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

But I don't know, the nationalizing elections just seems like a bad idea because some states, Florida do amazing with their elections and it can't become better nationalizing it. So I don't know. That part I think is just a bad idea for now. But I, yeah, we don't do anything that well nationally.

[Guy Benson]

No, I agree with you. What I would do is like a pilot program where Ron DeSantis just flies all over the country or Jeb Bush and just explains to people, this is how we do this.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

What is Jeb up to right now? Jeb, come back.

[Guy Benson]

Send him, send him out. But I do think this is an interesting case study on how the media will tell you. Actually the gender stuff is interesting too. In this way the media will tell you that you are a weirdo for thinking that people should present ID to vote or that we should know if people are citizens before they vote. And yet Harry Enton over at CNN does a deep dive on the opinions of the American people on this issue. Let's hear from him. This is like a two minute clip, but I want you to see the arc of the never changing popularity of this issue.

[Harry Enten]

Voter id, just so people understand is the idea that someone shows a photo ID when they go to vote, when they go to cast their actual ballot. Because there's a separate discussion right now about needing a passport or a birth certificate to register to vote. But the polling is all on voter ID showing an ID of vote, showing a photo ID to vote. And the American people are with, with Nicki Minaj, because what are we talking about here? So take a look here. Favor voter ID to vote. Look, I got all this polling on the screen going back since 2018. You'll notice on all of it, it's all north of 75%, 76%, 76%, 76%. 81% and then 83% in the last year of Americans agree with Nicki Minaj. They favor photo ID to be able to vote. What about bipartisan? What's the party? Yeah, normally you might expect, hey, there'd be a big divide by party with Republicans really for it and Democrats really against it. But not really here. I mean, just take a look here. Favorite photo ID to vote. You got 95% of Republicans, pretty much all of them, but even 71% of Democrats favor photo ID to vote. So again, Nicki Minaj posting that on X. And what you see is, is that the American people, actually it's not really all that controversial. The American people are with Nicki Minaj, whether they are Republican or even if they are Democrats. We're talking about 7 in 10 Democrats agreeing with Nicki Minaj that you in fact should show a voter photo ID to vote. What's the racial breakdown? Okay, what's the racial breakdown on this? Right, Because I think a lot of people make the argument that people of color, non white Americans, have a harder time procuring a photo ID to vote. But even here, take a look here. Favorite photo ID to vote. 85% of white people favor it. 82% of Latino, 76% percent of black Americans favorite. So the bottom line is this, voter ID is not controversial in this country. A photo ID to vote is not controversial in this country. It is not controversial by party and it is not controversial by race. The vast majority of Americans agree with Nicki Minaj that in fact you should have a photo ID to be able to vote. So something of a non traversy. Yes, very good. The alliteration of Mr. John Berman, that Harvard education paying off once again.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, not controversial. Why would it be? And I would love to know the people who don't support it. Is it because they have bought the lie that black people don't know how to get voter id?

[Guy Benson]

What's my favorite part about this is that it turns out 70 to 85% of black and brown people think they are capable of getting IDs, right?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Like because they do it already.

[Guy Benson]

White, white libs definitely think they're not capable.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

They're not. Sure. Yeah.

[Guy Benson]

But the people themselves are like, we got this. Yeah, we're fine.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

So I moved, you know, from New York where you don't need to show an id, you just need to sign your name. And the thing is they present you with your own signature to show you how to do it. They're like, here's your signature? Can you copy it right here just like.

[Guy Benson]

Yeah.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And then in Florida, when I went to vote it, they look at your id, I sign my name. They're like, can you do it one more time? Because it's not how you did it on your id. Because my signature is mostly just a scribble, right? Yeah. I had to redo it because they take voter integrity seriously. They take election integrity seriously. They don't want people voting who are not supposed to be voting. It's just that simple.

[Guy Benson]

Well, and this is, we have voter ID in plenty of places. It goes fine. Georgia is a place where voter turnout continues to go up. Democrats, you may have noticed, have won several Senate seats and and even the state in many cases recently. It is not preventing people from voting. It is not Jim Eagle, as Joe Biden said, one of the stupidest and most dishonest media stories of the past couple of years, and I know it's hard to choose, but that Georgia voting, oh yeah, law being somehow problematic and causing all that trouble. It wasn't problematic. Everything's fine. And this is yet another example of how the media can convince you that you're on the wrong side of an issue when in fact basically everyone agrees with you.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Do you remember sports tournaments pulled out of playing in Georgia? Like people said that they wouldn't be making movies in Georgia over that law. Like nothing happened.

[Guy Benson]

If I remember correctly, the All Star Game went from Atlanta to Colorado, which had had the same laws. Delaware at the time, Joe Biden's home state, had stricter laws than Georgia did.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Right. Everything was so performative. We're gonna look back at that whole era. I mean, we're already looking back at that whole era and being like, wow.

[Guy Benson]

That was we had the time to look at it in real time, which is why we do a show called Normally.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

We're right back with more on Normally and a little story you may not have heard about Chinese nationals carrying a bunch of unknown samples, liquids and biohazards. We'll be right back with that.

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Davis Woodhall and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

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You've never been one to settle, stand down or stand still. You're a lifelong learner, energized by excellence. There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. You've got competition to outrun, momentum to build on, and your own high standards to meet. Stop now. Not a chance. At Capella University, we help you catch what you're chasing because you've always had the drive. Now go earn the degree. Capella University what can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn.

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[Mary Katherine Ham]

We are back with more on normally where A tip from a house cleaner in Las Vegas made the Las Vegas police and Federal agents raid two properties. They found over 1,000 samples of unknown liquids, a centrifuge and other biological equipment. The homeowner, Chinese national Jia Baiju, known as David. He was already in custody from a 2022 Reedley, California, case involving pathogens like HIV, hepatitis and malaria, plus modified mice carrying COVID 19. That doesn't seem good.

[Guy Benson]

That doesn't seem good at all. It doesn't seem good that this is the second one. And I thought like, oh, we'll see if there's some connection. The connection is very clear.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, same guy.

[Guy Benson]

The guy owned both the one in Redding, California and this one. And I remember when that California story broke, thinking, why isn't this a bigger deal?

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Right?

[Guy Benson]

Because illegal CCP aligned Chinese national owned bio labs with transmutated mice in them seems like a very, very large deal that we should not be allowing on American soil.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

And yet I bet most people haven't heard the story. It's just not that big a deal to the media and it makes no sense. Why wouldn't illegal labs with possible BO bioweapons not be a big story in our media?

[Guy Benson]

Yeah, that last case, as you noted just to note how like how dangerous this can be, the last case led to a congressional investigation that found the illegal bio lab had allegedly been receiving money from Chinese banks and was housing, like you noted, HIV, malaria, TB, COVID 19 and even Ebola. Like this is not also, it's, it's already in Vegas. Like this is not a low risk proposition. It's in an Airbnb in Vegas. Hopefully what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. But in this case I am not confident.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

It's just insane and it really does make you think how much of an enemy China is to us and we just don't face that reality. We haven't gotten into TikTok news, but obviously that's been a big story over the last week or so because TikTok was forced to sell various properties. But they are in our country talking to our youth and doing stuff like this fairly openly. What are we doing here?

[Guy Benson]

Yeah, and well, and I think that might be part why the media doesn't want to cover this. Like it's the narrative that like, ew, bad enemy communist country is sowing bad things on American soil. Like they don't, like, they don't like that idea.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

But we should try to paint the picture for them that you can blame Donald Trump for this. You could say, why isn't Donald Trump doing more to stop this? Of course, when Donald Trump moves some aircraft carriers towards China, they're going to be like, forget it, we didn't mean it.

[Guy Benson]

Never mind, never mind. But yeah, don't miss that kind of news.

[Mary Katherine Ham]

Yeah, illegal biolab in a Las Vegas home, in case you missed it. Thank you for joining us on normally, normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe any where you get your podcast, get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

Hey, this is US Olympic Gold Medalist.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic Gold Medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Hunter Woodhull]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

So when it came to getting the.

[Hunter Woodhull]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

PennyMac PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and.

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You learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.

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Fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still. Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now we are here to help help you keep going further. Capella University what can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.

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[Guy Benson]

Guaranteed Human.