Normally Podcast: Maduro Captured, Trump’s Bold Foreign Policy & Government Fraud in Minnesota

Summary

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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – "Normally" Podcast Recap

Episode: “Maduro Captured, Trump’s Bold Foreign Policy & Government Fraud in Minnesota”
Date: January 6, 2026
Hosts: Mary Katharine Ham, Carol Markowitz, Jonathan Carle

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Overview

This episode of the "Normally" podcast dives into three major stories:

• The U.S. military’s dramatic capture of Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and its implications for American foreign policy.
• A massive government fraud scandal uncovered in Minnesota with ripple effects on state politics.
• Surprising admissions from liberal strongholds—academia and San Francisco—now echoing conservative critiques on campus activism and soft-on-crime policies.

The hosts bring their blend of wit and clarity, discussing the news with “normal” takes when the headlines get bizarre.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Year, New Foreign Policy: The Capture of Maduro

(02:42 – 18:41)

• Opening Thoughts & Personal Updates: The hosts open with New Year’s resolutions and humorous takes on self-improvement and Florida living.

  “Other than, like, see the inside of a gym at some point, I’m going to focus more on developing friendships this year.” – Carol Markowitz (02:51)

• Maduro's Capture – Operation Breakdown:

  • Trump’s bold order: U.S. forces stormed Venezuela by night, captured Maduro and his wife, facing minor American injuries but no fatalities.

  • The hosts admit they’d have hesitated beforehand, but in retrospect, laud the clean execution and restored image of American competence.

    "Watching General Raisin Cain explain this operation… I think, as Ben Domenech noted, it took a shorter amount of time to apprehend him than the last episode of Stranger Things." – Mary Katharine Ham (05:23)
    "No American died. So I can look back at it and be like, that was excellent… This is why you don't elect people like me president." – Carol Markowitz (04:32)

  • Re-establishing Deterrence:

    • Trump’s action signals restored U.S. resolve, especially after years of perceived weakness post-Afghanistan.
    • The presence of a Chinese delegation in Caracas underlines the international implications.

    "Having lost deterrence… reestablishing deterrence requires very muscular actions because people will not believe you once you've lost that, right? I think people are believing him." – Mary Katharine Ham (08:18)

  • Secretary Marco Rubio’s Competence:

    • Rubio is praised for having prepared for such a scenario for decades and receiving internet praise for his competency.

      "Does anybody appear more competent than Secretary of State Marco Rubio? ...I would trust him to do all of that. And he's just fantastic." – Carol Markowitz (07:07)

  • Venezuelan Reactions & Social Media:

    • Hosts highlight Venezuelans’ joyful and frustrated responses to American leftists criticizing U.S. intervention.
    • Two viral video clips feature Venezuelans calling out “democracy privilege” and the hypocrisy of U.S. liberals.

      “What the f*** is wrong with you? We have had 27 years of dictatorship in our country that has censored us, that has tortured us, that has killed us, and that made us go away from our country.” – Venezuelan Commentator (10:29)
      “Iran and Cuba have been receiving free Venezuelan oil for decades in exchange for protecting the dictator… Be concerned about the imperial powers of Iran and Russia who are already in Venezuela.” – Venezuelan Commentator (11:36)

  • International Law and Precedent:

    • Legal minds compare Maduro’s case to Noriega’s, with skepticism about whether courts will treat Trump actions fairly.

    “One wild card may be the Trump rule, which is that anything Trump does is judicially suspect… But it would be wrong to entirely discount its power.” – Carol Markowitz referencing Glenn Reynolds (13:08)

  • Democratic Hypocrisy and Political Fallout:

    • Democrats previously advocated for Maduro's removal; now denounce the operation for political reasons.

    “Biden put a $25 million bounty on his [head]… and it’s amazing to me how loudly Democrats say no, we just say stuff we don’t mean all the time.” – Mary Katharine Ham (15:13)

    • Rubio argues the operation was a cost-saving measure, humorously likening it to bargain shopping at Target.

  • What Happens Next in Venezuela?

    • The U.S. leaves Maduro’s Vice President, Delsey Rodriguez, in charge, pressuring for new, legitimate elections.

      “Basically put a blockade on oil, strangle this leadership and say, here's what you have to do. We're going to tell you what to do, and then we will have elections.” – Mary Katharine Ham (17:56)

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2. Government Fraud Scandal in Minnesota

(21:32 – 29:31)

• Uncovered Fraud:

  • YouTuber Nick Shirley films empty, taxpayer-funded childcare centers, exposing fraud in public programs.

  • Liberal media and local officials downplay, dismiss, or redirect blame.

    “It was an extraordinarily difficult year for our state, and it ended on a particularly sour note… Donald Trump and his allies in Washington… want to make our state a colder, meaner place.” – Reading Gov. Tim Walz’s statement (22:57)

  • Political Consequences:

    • Governor Tim Walz not seeking re-election, despite earlier denials of the scandal’s seriousness.
    • Senator Amy Klobuchar rumored to enter the governor’s race.
    • On GOP side, Mike Lindell (MyPillow guy) and state leader Lisa DeMuth are mentioned.
    • Hosts emphasize both parties previously failed to act on fraud warnings.

  • Media & Bureaucratic Gaslighting:

    • Efforts to discredit whistleblowers and minimize fraud as a “drop in the bucket.”

    "Every single dollar that is not stewarded in the way it should be is taken from an American who could use it for honest means… Many of those Americans are suffering right now trying to pay for… child care." – Mary Katharine Ham (27:20)

  • Discussion on Systemic Fraud:

    • Acknowledges fraud happens in many communities; opposition to fighting fraud is not racism.
    • Calls for sustained Republican attention and reform.

      “All of these scandals are showing us… there's already a universal basic income for so many people in America… We need to stop it.” – Carol Markowitz (28:24)

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3. "Now It Can Be Told": Liberals Reverse Course on Academia & Crime

(32:36 – 36:48)

• Academic Activism:

  • Harvard’s interim President Alan Garber admits faculty activism in classrooms harms free speech and debate.

    "It's not just the expressing [of views]… It's that you only hired people who believe one thing. And part of what they believe is that everyone must believe what they believe." – Mary Katharine Ham (33:13)

  • Both hosts share their own stories of writing to appease professors’ biases.

    "I wrote a paper… about how the family is an outdated concept. Got an A. Got an A." – Carol Markowitz (33:27)

• San Francisco Wakes Up on Crime:

  • New mayor Daniel Lurie admits progressive policies let crime spiral, promises a return to basic enforcement.

    “Now today, if you come to San Francisco to commit a crime, we're going to catch you and we're going to prosecute you… Our progressive values sort of overtook common sense.” – Mayor Daniel Lurie (34:59)

  • Hosts note the irony: laissez-faire only applies to criminals, while ordinary residents face excessive restrictions.

  • Retail Flight as a Symptom:

    • Stores lock up merchandise; businesses leave cities due to unmanageable theft and regulation.

  • Comparison to Singapore:

    • Markowitz jokes about strict law enforcement, wonders why simply enforcing existing laws is considered radical.

      “What if we just enforced the laws that we have with the punishments that we have for those laws? Like, how would that go?” – Carol Markowitz (36:35)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American Military Might & Competence

  • “Delta forces down there taking care of business. And that part, in and of itself is gratifying.” – Mary Katharine Ham (06:07)
  • “The joke is that we wanted a grownup in the room. Is it surprising that that grownup is Donald Trump? Yes, but he is. He's the grownup in the room…” – Carol Markowitz (07:07)

• On U.S. Political Hypocrisy

  • “We just say stuff we don't mean all the time. And they're proud of it. They're like, no, no, no, no. We… didn’t mean that.” – Mary Katharine Ham (15:13)

• On Fraud in Government

  • “Every single dollar that is not stewarded in the way it should be is taken from an American who could use it for honest means instead of fraud.” – Mary Katharine Ham (27:20)
  • “Why are we putting on makeup and doing this podcast when we could just open a child care center. Like, that's ridiculous.” – Carol Markowitz (28:42)

• On Progressive Policies in Cities

  • “Bars on the ground, man. We will be prosecuting crimes. Congratulations.” – Mary Katharine Ham (35:32)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• New Year’s Resolutions and Banter: 02:18 – 03:18
• Maduro Capture, Foreign Policy, Rubio: 03:37 – 18:41
  • Venezuelans Call Out U.S. Left: 10:29 – 12:26
• Minnesota Government Fraud Scandal: 21:32 – 29:31
• Liberals Rethink Academia & Crime: 32:36 – 36:48
  • Mayor Daniel Lurie on Law Enforcement: 34:26 – 35:31

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is sharp, irreverent, and deeply skeptical of establishment narratives—whether on foreign policy, government integrity, or progressive orthodoxies in education and urban policy. The hosts balance outrage, humor, and the satisfaction of long-awaited vindication for perspectives they've held.

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For Listeners New to the Episode:

• The episode’s stories all revolve around moments where supposed “norms” are shattered—by unexpected military skill, massive public fraud, or the collapse of once-dominant progressive dogmas.
• The hosts push for accountability, competence, and honest debate, challenging both left and right where necessary and taking pleasure in watching reality assert itself.

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Transcript

[Mary Katharine Ham]

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[Mary Katharine Ham]

Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with normal it takes for when the news gets weird. I'm Mary Kathryn Hamp.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz.

[Jonathan Carle]

How are you?

[Carol Markowitz]

Mary Kathryn Happy New Year.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Happy New Year. I'm making it man, we got Doing it. We got through the holidays. I flew down to the Sugar bowl to watch the dogs lose, but everybody was very nice. Even as I walked back on Bourbon street among the revelers, who were all Ole Miss fans, everything went fine. Aside from the actual result of the game.

[Carol Markowitz]

Any New Year's resolutions?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Not in particular. Just to kind of get myself back in order. I made it to the gym today. What about you?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I mean, other than, like, you know, see the inside of a gym at some. Some point, I'm going to focus more on developing friendships this year. I've been in Florida four years, and, like, I know a lot of people here, and I. I'm always busy and I have stuff to do, but, like, I have to just, like, start making plans with my kids, friends, you know, Mom. Like, I have to. I have to just do better at stuff like that. So that's. That's the one for this year.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I love it. I love it.

[Jonathan Carle]

All right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Also, four years in Florida. Um, I told the Internet that it was January 2nd. It turns out it was January 3rd. So in general, I just need to get more organized. But, yeah, four years. Floridian, very happy about that and couldn't be glad, you know, couldn't be better than when Mom Donnie became mayor of New York, to be like, I live in Florida.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Actually, that four years happened fast. Well, another person had some New Year's resolutions that he executed on. On January 3rd. That Donald, you know, that President Donald Trump, engaging in his foreign policy doctrine, which is sort of, you can just do things.

[Carol Markowitz]

You could just do things.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

You could just do things. You do things. He did those things in Venezuela on January 3, in the dark of night, with 150 aircraft executing a precision apprehension of illegitimate president Nicolas Maduro.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

From Caracas, along with his wife, who have both been indicted in New York for several years now, carried him out of the country. No casualties to American troops, although there were some injuries, I think, which are minor. Everybody hightailed it out of there and TBD on Venezuela, but Maduro is in a cell in New York right now.

[Carol Markowitz]

Unbelievable, right? I mean, look, you know, it's funny because if you had asked me on January 2nd, should the US go in and depose Maduro, I would have been like, no, def not. But now that we've done it successfully, I'm like, that's good. My concern would have been losing American lives. It wouldn't have been international law. It wouldn't have been, you know, anything else other than, would an American die in this operation, I would not have wanted that. No American died. So I can look back at it and be like, that was excellent. This is why you don't elect people like me president. Because I would be like, I don't know.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I don't know if we should do this well. So I'm with you. Like, a little. I don't know. But let me. Let me say this part first. Watching General Raisin Cain explain this operation after it is already done and everyone's back.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I think, as Ben Domenech noted, it took a shorter amount of time to apprehend him than the last episode of Stranger Things. So they were. They were in and out of there. Between that and the Iran strike, which, again, we were. You know, I would have been like, maybe a little squeamish about how's this going to go. Watching our military, it's amazing. Be so insanely competent and its leaders be insanely competent is something I have been starved for, man. Or maybe 10 years, just to watch an institution do what it's supposed to do. So Delta forces down there taking care of business. And that part, in and of itself is gratifying. And I think perhaps some in the media and liberals in general underestimate. Yes, people don't care about foreign policy that much, but the demonstration of American competence and power they do care about. And that part made me go, whoo. My goodness. Also want to note one of my favorite tweets, because the memeing of this news event.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, my God.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

So good. Almost like nothing I've ever seen. But someone. Someone said today a Venezuelan named Delta Force Donald Trump Vasquez will be born.

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[Mary Katharine Ham]

That part. That part just is inspiring to me. And I think my concern is what happens next. And American lives, obviously, was my first concern. What happens next? However, I do think Secretary of State Marco Rubio has been thinking about this problem since the year 1999 when Hugo Chavez took over.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

So since his 20s, he's been like, what would we do if we had this chance? And so that makes me feel better about it.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, speaking of competence, like, does anybody appear more competent than Secretary of State Marco Rubio? I just think he is on fire, really. The memes about him taking on more jobs, like, oh, now he's going to have to be coach of the Miami Dolphins, and now he's going to have to run Venezuela. Like, I would trust him to do all of that. And he's just fantastic. It's so funny how starved we were for this kind of competency. Look, the joke is that we wanted a grownup in the room. Is it surprising that that grownup is Donald Trump? Yes, but he is. He's the grownup in the room who is like taking care of business, blocking out the crazy voices around him. And there are crazy voices around him and just going for it. Making America great again on the world stage. I'm so impressed. I am just, I don't know. Everybody who's listened to me and has watched me and read me for years knows that I wasn't like, Donald Trump is the guy who's going to get things done. And yet here he is, just exceeding all expectations on every level.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Well, I think what he's engaged in doing, which I really appreciate, even when I'm nervous about whatever eventuality is coming next, what I appreciate that he's doing is he is reestablishing deterrence. And it's a place where I can have more leeway for him. Because having lost deterrence in such dramatic ways after the Afghanistan pull out and all of that, and no one responsibility and no one being punished for it, reestablishing deterrence requires very muscular actions because people will not believe you once you've lost that right. I think people are believing him. And one of the folks who must believe him now is, I believe there was a Chinese delegation on the ground.

[Carol Markowitz]

And that was just.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Within several days of this event. And so I think that sends a message as well to China and to people in another hemisphere. But I'm open to the idea that this is our hemisphere. We're taking care of business. This is. Maduro is from the beginning illegitimate. Yeah, Chavez was illegitimate. He just takes over and starts nationalizing businesses. They of course took Venezuela, which is an incredibly resource rich place, down to just degrading, awful, rationed poverty in years.

[Carol Markowitz]

I've been there as a child. It was, I mean, beautiful and amazing. It was a very hot spot for, I don't know, there was a time period where Russian immigrants were really into going to Venezuela. So I'd been there more than once. It was gorgeous. And somewhere that, you know, I hope tourism comes back. I hope they come back. I hope, I hope the whole place recovers. The glee from Venezuelans is just so beautiful to watch. I've loved every minute of it. I think we have some clips we're going to play of that.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yeah. Because it's not just the glee from them, it is also, to my mind, one of the most thorough social media punishments for libs that I have seen. Because Venezuelans keep taking to social media to say, guys, you're getting this wrong. Let me explain why. So we do have a couple clips of a couple Venezuelans explaining to the libs why this matters and why they're happy.

[Venezuelan Commentator]

This is a video for all those liberals and leftists, mostly American, that I've seen in the media complaining about what's going on in Venezuela, complaining about this military attacks against military buildings, against government buildings that were attacked today in the early morning. What the fuck is wrong with you? We have had 27 years of dictatorship in our country that has censored us, that has tortured us, that has killed us, and that made us go away from our country like they made us run away from our own homeland. Do you ever imagine that you will have to do that? Like, do you, do you even put yourself in the situation of what does that mean?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

All right, and then we have another one. This is the nature of many of them. My feed is just full of them. And it's a delight because this is information they need.

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[Carol Markowitz]

I saw another influencer say, yeah, you know, the United States is there for oil. What do you think Russia and Iran are there for the AREPA recipes?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yes, there has been a lot of quality commentary on this. And yes, what, what do you think those forces were there for? They were there to coalesce close to America, to put, to give a foothold to all of our worst enemies in that area. By the way, Venezuela, of course, has a close relationship with Russia. Russia put out a very strongly worded statement about this. So apparently the, that allyship was not quite as ally as they had hoped when it came down to it and was whisked out of the country.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. So the legal part of it, law professor Glenn Reynolds, he's instapundent. He's one of the people I turn to to break down stuff like this. He writes, brought to the United States and put on trial Noriega. He's talking about Manuel Noriega and how that's kind of the precedent for this. And his lawyers made the same arguments that Maduro supporters on the left are making now. Violations of the UN Charter, illegal rendition, head of state immunity, et cetera. None of these convince the courts, and for reasons that are likely to be. To obtain here. Of course, one wild card may be the Trump rule, which is that anything Trump does is judicially suspect. Basically, all the best people know Trump is no good. That's stupid. But it would be wrong to entirely discount its power. So that's really where we are, whether the. The courts will find that this is. Was an illegal action because Donald Trump was involved. But the Southern District of New York apparently is taking this quite seriously, and they're prosecuting them there, so we'll see. But, you know, he was indicted five years ago. The Biden administration happened during that time. They could have, you know, done something with that indictment, and they didn't. So here we are. He's in the U.S. it's just the whole operation, the fact that they were able to do this and bring him to the US and just. It's really just a miraculous thing to watch.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Well, and we should note also that Democrats before now were very in favor of ending the Maduro. Illegitimate.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Illegitimate presidency of Venezuela. He ran against someone in 2024. Not the. Not the woman who won the Nobel Prize, but she was barred from running. But the guy who ran it against him in 2024 won with, like, 67% of the vote. It was very clear. And he, of course, just overrode that. Machado, the woman who was leader of the opposition, has since left the country. Like, Democrats at the time, because it happened on their wife.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Were like, this is reprehensible. Biden put a $25 million bounty on his. On what would lead to his arrest. And it's amazing to me how loudly Democrats say no. We just say stuff we don't mean all the time. And they're proud of it. They're like, no, no, no, no. We. Yeah, we put a $25 million bounty on it. But, like, we didn't mean that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, we didn't mean, go get him. We just meant, like, hope he comes to us.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Right. Like what? And I think they think that's a point in their favor. I mean, Kamala's statement about it was very much just like, this is absolutely outrageous that this would ever happen. It's like, but your own administration put a $25 million bounty on it.

[Carol Markowitz]

What did you think was going to happen? Like, it'd be really funny, actually, if Trump collects that bounty and puts it towards the ballroom.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Believe. I believe Rubio has already argued that we saved 50 million by doing this, which is the argument I make when I, when I buy on sale things at Target. So, like, I, I mean, for sure understood, my dude. Understood.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'll also note that Donald Trump was seen shopping for marble in Lake Worth, Florida, near where he lives in Palm beach, like, looking at tile and marble slabs the day this happened.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yes.

[Carol Markowitz]

He was like, yes, Heather.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

He also arrived at his Mar a Lago New Year's Eve party and was asked, you know, what his New Year's Eve resolution was, and it was for world peace, which I enjoyed very much, of course, knowing that this is going to happen. Also, can I briefly say Melania on New Year's Eve.

[Carol Markowitz]

What a goddess.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Sometimes you just have to say, like, right, wow, wow. Okay, so that's just a brief aside. Yeah.

[Carol Markowitz]

Listen, Melania needs a moment.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

As it stands now, Jim Garrity writes about who's in charge in Venezuela at this point. Now, Donald Trump has said, we're in charge, but we're not sure exactly what that means. Meet the new boss, the vice president of the old boss. In the early morning hours of Saturday, the US military executed one of the most stunningly proficient operations in its grabbing, Nicolas Maduro. But apparently the Trump administration's plan is to leave Maduro's vice president, Delsey Rodriguez, in charge as head of the Venezuelan state, and to hope that the threat of additional military action keeps her in line. Right now, I think from what I can gather from Rubio on the Sunday shows, scolding all of the anchors, it seems like they envisioned something possibly with the official opposition led by Machado, who Trump was not very complimentary of at this, at this press, or even though she dedicated his Nobel, her Nobel Prize to him.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

From what I gather, their sense was that they weren't prepared to handle the military to have enough power to be seen as legitimate. So in the meantime, what they've decided to do, and I'm just layman's termsing, basically put a blockade on oil, strangle this leadership and say, here's what you have to do. We're going to tell you what to do, and then we will have elections. And I believe the Chavistas can be involved in those elections, and then presumably the opposition would be elected.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right. They could be involved in the elections, but nobody's electing them. Everyone wants to eat.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

So yes, yes, they'd like to eat something other than zoo animals, which is a thing that happened in Venezuela at one point because people needed food.

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, we're gonna take a short break and come back with even more news that happened in the last few days. Be right back with more on Normalee.

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[Carol Markowitz]

We are back on normally where also while we were off, a 9 billion fraud scandal was uncovered in Minnesota. Nick Shirley, he's a YouTuber, taped himself visiting multiple child care facilities that were receiving large amounts of taxpayer dollars but were largely empty. How did the liberal media react to this? Did they say, wow, this is a really great find? Nick Shirley. They did not. You might be shocked to find out, Mary Catherine but the big news today is that Minnesota Governor Tim Walls is not running for reelection. You have to imagine, because of all of this.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yeah, it's so funny because I was told that the fraud was either non existent or small or probably pretty good. And also made up by Republicans. And also made up by Nick Shirley. Even though there were investigations and indictments and local coverage of this in the past.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

But for some reason, all this fakeness also precipitates the dropping out of the race of the current governor of the state of Minnesota, who has now gone from veep candidate. Yep. To nothing within a year and a half.

[Carol Markowitz]

That is such a good point, you know, about how if it's all fake, then why is he resigning or why is he not running for reelection? Well, yeah.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Well, I can give you the answer from his statement, which is an insane statement. I'm gonna start from the beginning, just so you see how quickly he modulates to blaming others. Good morning and happy New Year. Like many Minnesotans, I was glad to turn the page on 2025. It was an extraordinarily difficult year for our state, and it ended on a particularly sour note. For the last several years, an organized group of criminals has sought to take advantage of our state's generosity. And even as we make progress in the fight against the fraudsters, we now see an organized group of political actors seeking to take advantage of the crisis. I won't mince words here. Donald Trump and his allies in Washington, in St. Paul and online want to make our state a colder, meaner place. Oh, my God. We can't. We can't make it colder, dude. Like you live in Minnesota. Yeah, but yes, it's. He really, he really kicked over quickly to blaming someone else for this fraud that doesn't exist, but kind of exists. But he's a super fraud fighter, but also he has to drop out of the race.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Like, Snopes looked into this and found Nick Shirley's claims to be, quote, unverified because, quote, a spokesperson for the Minnesota Department of Human Services, DHS said in a statement that it had visited all of the facilities in Shirley's video at least once in the six months preceding December 2025 as part of the department's typical license process. Oh, well, then I know it's like, oh, okay. Well, I guess if they visited, then there's nothing to see here.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yeah, they totally visited. And it's not at all obvious that everyone in this process is bought off or bought in to this process. And that's the thing to me is this, all of this is so gigantic, the scale is so great that you didn't not know. Sorry. The whistleblowers have been very loud. They have their own Twitter account. They have repeatedly come to state government to say this is happening. Mostly been rebuffed, although there have been some. There have been some indictments and there are federal indictments as well. But then even the New York Times had to admit in its reporting. Finally, not in 2024, when they could have connected walls to this and it would have been helpful to everyone. But like a month ago they were like, yeah, so a lot of people were afraid of being called racist because it was 2020 to 2023. Yeah. And this is like a marginalized community doing fraud, so they couldn't say anything about it.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's just such bs because here's the thing, and I said this on the show before, like, I would say that, you know, bad stuff goes on in every immigrant community and in non immigrant communities. But when I see a fraud scandal break in Brooklyn, my first reaction is like, please don't be, you know, from the former Soviet Union. Please don't be Soviet Union. And if it is, all of us are like, oh, you guys are the worst. Like, you make us look so bad. Like, this is just horrible. Nobody's like, oh, you're so, you know, you're attacking our ethnicity. Nobody says that. Nobody at all argues that fighting crime on behalf of all of us is somehow anti ex Soviet. Like, come on. And it's so offensive that they're trying this because these people are Somali. Like, again, any. It could happen anywhere. And that actually should be the message, that it's not limited to Somali community. You should probably look into other communities as well. And it's nothing. There's nothing racist about it.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Actually, one of the things I like about this scandal is that because the media is so focused on saying, not just Somali Americans, they have admitted things they don't really admit regularly, which is, like, all states and all programs have a bunch of fraud. Which is useful to me as someone who actually cares about the fraud in all of these programs that you guys have been dismissing for so long. So it's nice to hear them finally admit that as a way of defending Walson. All of these.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right. This happens everywhere. Like, okay, go fight that.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Okay, great. Let's. Let's get on all of that, please.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

And I do. They always say in all of these waste, fraud, and abuse issues, they always say it's a drop in the bucket. Okay, first of all, this isn't a drop in the bucket. Billions of dollars. Second of all, every single dollar that is not stewarded in the way it should be is taken from an American who could use it for honest means instead of fraud. And many of those Americans are suffering right now trying to pay for weight for it. Child care.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

While it's being given away to people who are not engaging in child care.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right. And I really hope that Republicans don't let this go. This is just. It's such a giant scandal, and Republicans are so just very easily distracted. I will say. The Republican Study Committee members, Representatives Brad Finstead, Peter Stubber and Michelle Fischback, are demanding answers from Tim Walls about the fraud. They have given him until today to commit to full cooperation with federal investigators. We'll see if anything comes of any of that. I would love to see Republicans, you know, die on this Hill. This is really important to the American people. I think one of the other things that people have said in the last week or so about the scandal is like, all of these scandals are showing us that there's so much money where people just, you know, that there's already a universal basic income for so many people in America and not like, we don't even know about it. It's wrong. It's unfair. It hurts us all. We need to stop it. And, like, this is where Republicans can really shine.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Yeah. And it increasingly makes a bunch of honest people go, why am I being.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, why am I working? Right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Why am I trying to open a childcare center and getting told by the state that I have to meet all these regulations when none of these other people have to?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Why are we putting on makeup and doing this podcast when we could just open a child care center. Like, that's ridiculous.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

I'd be great at a no child care. Child care center at that, for millions of dollars. One last thing, which is that it looks like Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar will get into the race for governor. On the Republican side, you have Mike Lindell, the MyPillow guy who has announced, and Lisa DeMuth, who was the head of the Minnesota Republicans in the state. Who would be the sensible choice to take on an Amy Klobuchar? And by the way, one more thing. As I said, no one in power is a Democrat. Didn't know what was going on here. And Klobuchar is going to sound all tough, like she's, oh, I'm the one to get to the bottom of this. And she might even be convincing because she is a tough lady. But she wasn't being tough on it before now.

[Carol Markowitz]

No, she wasn't.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Why not?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right? She hoped nobody would find out. Yeah. We'll be right back with one more segment of Normally coming right up.

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[Jenna Kim Jones]

Breaking news, everybody. Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible. The ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely.

[Jonathan Carle]

Let me start by saying it's a great day to be a gray shirt team Rubicon. You know, it truly is a team. Those folks, myself included, all had one desire, which is helping folks in disaster. Trying to be a little bit of hope in a really, really bad situation.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

It's like magic, you guys. So put down your doom scroller and pick up your faith in humanity and join me, Jenna, for the ripple effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. You really can.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

We give just that nugget of hope helping other people. For some of our gray shirts, it's during a time when they need help and by helping others, it helps them.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Listen to the ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

I have Some very exciting news. I am always looking for companies to support that are ethical. And let's be honest, the phone companies we've all been stuck with are not that. This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. You know, I travel constantly and supposedly I have international free roaming on Verizon. Yet my phone bills are still 300, 400 and even $500 a month. It makes zero sense. So I switched to a company with actual ethics, Noble Mobile. And they pay you for staying off your phone. The more you unplug, the more money you save each month. And the most you'll Ever pay is 50 bucks Unlimited coverage when I need it, cash back when I don't. It was started by people I know and trust. So if you trust me and want to join my mission to stop being a phone addicted zombie, come along. Go to noblemobile.com Chelsea right now and try it for just 10 bucks. That's noblemobile.com Chelsea crunchy crafts high performing.

[Crunchy Crafts Advertiser]

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[Mary Katharine Ham]

All right, we're back on Normally with a little bit of now it can be told. It turns out that in academia and in San Francisco, the libs are learning they were wrong and we were right a long time ago. But you know, I welcome these realizations. The first one comes from Harvard president Alan Garber who said in an interview that the university went wrong by allowing faculty activism in the classroom. Arguing professors political views have chilled free speech and debate on campus. Part of the quote is how many students would actually be willing to go toe to toe against a professor who's expressed a firm view about a controversial issue. I think he's obviously right about this. But it's not just the expressing.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

The expressing is not the problem. It's that you only hired people who believe one thing. Yeah. And part of what they believe is that everyone must believe what they believe. And so that doesn't really allow for a lot of back and forth.

[Carol Markowitz]

It really doesn't. And look, the kids who are different from their professors know to cater to them. I wrote a paper in college that I Found a few years ago about how the family is an outdated concept. Got an A. Got an A.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

So I found, I found a little bit of a squishy gun control paper when I was back at my parents house and was like whoa. Somebody definitely signaled to me that I was not gonna get an if. I didn't say this, but yes. And like I think it requires kids being braver now, adults in college, but it requires them being braver now because the punishments are worse than when I was in school. And even when I was in school you were risking something to, to stick up for what you believed. So I appreciate him acknowledging that it can be tolding. Yeah, we'll see what happens. Meanwhile in San Francisco, Jonathan Carle of ABC traveled to interview the San Francisco mayor Daniel Lurie about the challenges that San Francisco faces. And this is what he's realized. We have a clip of him.

[Podcast Advertiser]

What went wrong in this city? I mean San Francisco had become the symbol of in some ways progressive or liberal failure. What happened here?

[Jonathan Carle]

We lost our way as a city. We all know that. We had, you know, career politicians that were focused on what was next for them instead of what was best for San Franciscans. And what I've tried to do is focus on getting results for the people of San Francisco.

[Podcast Advertiser]

And what specifically was it? Was it a approach of not enforcing the laws?

[Jonathan Carle]

I think we got away from the basics of government. Now today, if you come to San Francisco to commit a crime, we're going to catch you and we're going to prosecute you. If you come to San Francisco to deal drugs or to do drugs, we're going to prosecute you and we're not going to tolerate it for as long as I'm mayor. And I think we sort of had a laissez faire attitude. We said, okay, it's somebody's right to do drugs. Our progressive values sort of overtook common sense.

[Carol Markowitz]

Sure did.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

Bars on the ground, man. We will be prosecuting crimes. Congratulations. And by the way, they aren't laissez faire. They're only laissez faire toward criminals. That's the problem. Normal people who live in San Francisco have to follow the rules. And the rules are onerous and terrible and make you want to leave San Francisco, which is what a bunch of companies have done.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Michael Malice was in New York the last few days and he posted to his ex about how everything in like the local stores and the duane reads and the CVSS is locked up and you have to go find an employee for everything and how Is that a business model? And of course it's not. And all of these companies are going to leave these places that make it so impossible. I was also in Singapore over the break. It was my second time there. And I get it. We shouldn't have the death penalty for like spitting on the ground. Okay, but what if. What if we just enforced the laws that we have with the punishments that we have for those laws? Like, how would that go?

[Mary Katharine Ham]

It's so crazy. It just might work. But I look forward to it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Let's see what San Francisco does here.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

And we'll see what happens with Mamdani, who's currently weighing in on the Venezuela raid, because we really need him on that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, we'll see. We didn't even get to talk about Mamdani, but that's okay because there'll be lots of opportunities to talk about Zora Mamdani in the future. Thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

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[Chelsea Handler]

I have some very exciting news. I am always looking for companies to support that are ethical. And let's be honest, the phone companies we've all been stuck with are not that. This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. You know I travel constantly and supposedly I have international free roaming on Verizon. Yet my phone bills are still 300, 400 and even $500 a month. It makes zero sense. So I switched to a company with actual ethics, Noble Mobile. And they pay you for staying off your phone. The more you unplug, the more money you save each month and the most you'll Ever pay is 50 bucks Unlimited coverage when I need it, cash back when I don't. It was started by people I know and trust. So if you trust me and want to join my mission to stop being a phone addicted zombie, come along. Go to noblemobile.com Chelsea right now and try it for just 10 bucks. That's noblemobile.com Chelsea crunchy crafts high performing.

[Crunchy Crafts Advertiser]

Skincare and makeup using only the safest clinically backed ingredients, all wrapped in sustainable packaging. It's beauty that delivers results without compromising your health or the planet. Now through January 1st, save up to 30% on Crunchy's seasonal gift sets, curated for intentional gifting or for treating yourself to a little self care. Visit crunchy.com to give the gift of real clean beauty this season. That's c r u n c-I.com crunchy the real Clean Beauty this is an I heart podcast.

[Mary Katharine Ham]

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