Normally Podcast: Media Censorship, Government Chaos, and Trump’s Economic Gamble

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: "Normally Podcast: Media Censorship, Government Chaos, and Trump’s Economic Gamble"

Date: November 11, 2025
Hosts: Mary Katharine Ham & Carol Markowitz
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

Hosts Mary Katharine Ham and Carol Markowitz tackle the week’s political turbulence, including government shutdown drama and reopening, shifting Democratic strategies, Trump’s unconventional economic proposals, and how woke ideology is impacting formerly mainstream organizations. With characteristic humor and incisive takes, they analyze how both parties are positioning themselves ahead of 2026, why old rules of political engagement no longer seem to apply, and how to navigate the culture war’s quirks in daily life.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Language on TV & Shifting Cultural Norms

[03:34–05:52]

• Carol recounts backlash to her tweet objecting to an NFL player’s “nut up or shut up” on NBC pre-8pm, wondering if she’s become a prude.
• Mary Katharine responds: rules for broadcast language are odd and arbitrary; standards keep shifting with little logic.
• Memorable moment: Both hosts jokingly dub themselves “squares,” noting their changing tolerance as parents.

“I judge myself for reacting badly … have I become a square in my old age?” – Carol Markowitz [04:22]

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2. Government Shutdown: Who’s to Blame and What Was Achieved?

[05:57–16:12]

• Immediate political context: Senate votes to reopen government after Democrats and Republicans stalemate over Obamacare subsidies; Democrats initially block “clean” funding bills to force COVID-era subsidies.
• Breakdown of missed opportunities: Mary Katharine rattles off the many dates Democrats could have crossed the aisle to end the shutdown but chose not to, prioritizing a losing bargaining chip.

“They did all this for six weeks for nothing. Really. Nada.” – Mary Katharine Ham [08:16]

• Democratic strategy: Carol sharply critiques Dems for causing pain to their own voters to maximize political gain, citing Senator Kaine’s honest admission of electoral gamesmanship.
• Notable quote from Sen. Tim Kaine:

“I need a moratorium on mischief… because if we vote to open and then the immediate step next week is Donald Trump fires a lot more people, it’s going to blow up trust to get the full year deal.” [10:11]

• Republican risks and consistency: Mary Katharine asserts she's always opposed shutdown tactics (Republican or Democrat), recalling the 2013 Cruz shutdown over Obamacare as similarly ill-advised.

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3. Trump’s Latest Economic Gambits – Outflanking Old-School Conservatism

[19:14–29:08]

A. 50-Year Mortgage Proposal

• Carol outlines Trump’s push for ultra-long mortgages, noting the populist appeal for first-time buyers, but the clear contradictions with conservative economic principles.
• Mary Katharine frames it in 1980s/90s-style Democrats’ terms: Trump’s policy instincts echo an earlier, less market-oriented Democratic Party.

“Trump is in many ways an early 90s, late 80s Democrat.” – Mary Katharine Ham [21:54]

B. Tariffs and $2000 Stimulus “Dividend”

• Trump proposes stimulus payouts funded by tariff revenue—Carol and Mary Katharine critique as deeply inflationary and lacking fiscal conservative logic.
• Both draw a direct line from COVID stimulus payments to today’s high prices, questioning who really benefits from tariffs and long-maturity mortgages.
• Memorable moment:

“The $7 Mango should be your book title about inflation.” – Mary Katharine Ham [25:43]

C. Threatening to Blow Up the Filibuster

• Trump threatens to end the Senate filibuster to push through his agenda. Hosts debate whether his posturing is tactical genius or reckless, generally expressing skepticism about breaking longstanding Senate tradition.

“Is he a genius or is he like, a madman? … He’s kind of a little bit of both and you just don’t really know.” – Carol Markowitz [27:12]

D. Bonuses for Air Traffic Controllers

• Trump’s populist move: Rewarding employees who stayed on the job during the shutdown with a $10,000 bonus—questioning whether such tactics encourage or undermine civil service stability.

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4. “Go Woke, Go Broke”: Sierra Club and the Perils of Ideological Overreach

[32:29–37:29]

• NYT reports Sierra Club’s membership drop from social justice shift:
  • Mary Katharine walks through how the environmental giant became “everything to everyone,” embracing racial, labor, and LGBTQ+ causes on top of its environmental mission.
  • Loss of focus leads to both financial and political collapse; lay-offs and abandonment of core issues (like protecting wolves).
• Humorous reflection on infamous Bloomberg math error about giving every American “a million dollars”—showcases media foibles.

“They became everything to everyone, which meant they became ineffective. At which point, what did they do … they became anti-Semitic.” – Mary Katharine Ham [36:01]

• Sierra Club’s politicization culminates in canceling trips to Israel and declaring Palestine an environmental issue.

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5. Modern Celebrity & the Right Way to Handle Woke Outrage

[37:29–41:08]

• Sydney Sweeney’s masterclass in not taking the bait:
  • After being pressed about “genetic superiority” criticism regarding an ad, Sweeney simply says:

    “I think that when I have an issue I want to speak about, people will hear.” [38:31]

  • Carol and Mary Katharine praise her “Joan Rivers method”—don’t apologize when you haven’t done wrong, and it shuts down the outrage cycle.
  • Both note the importance of strong family grounding for celebrities navigating cultural minefields.

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• On shutdown politics:

  “The chaos, even though we’re literally causing it, is Trump’s chaos.” – Mary Katharine Ham [09:48]

• On Trump’s economic style:

  “You give me a 1989 Democrat and a 2025 Democrat to choose between, I’m going to take the 89 Democrat.” – Mary Katharine Ham [21:31]

• On culture war fallout for institutions:

  “They decided that they were going to be diversity, equity, inclusion, they were going to be racial justice… that did not go well for them.” – Mary Katharine Ham [34:57]

• On navigating cancel culture:

  “Do not apologize when you don’t have anything to apologize for. And that’s what got a lot of people in that crazy 2020–2023 area—the truth is, once you apologize, they have their new storyline.” – Mary Katharine Ham [39:05]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Camping, Cultural Language: 03:00–05:52
• Shutdown/Political Dysfunction: 05:57–16:12
• Trump’s Economic Proposals: 19:14–29:08
• Sierra Club Profile & Woke Overreach: 32:29–37:29
• Sydney Sweeney & Celebrity Outrage: 37:29–41:08

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Tone and Style

Mary Katharine and Carol keep the tone conversational, witty, and irreverent, balancing personal anecdotes, sharp critiques, and plenty of humor—often poking fun at themselves, their political opponents, and the absurdity of modern discourse. This episode is especially useful for listeners interested in inside-baseball political strategy, anti-woke commentary, and practical takes on how to weather today’s cultural storms without losing one’s head.

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Transcript

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[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Hey guys. We are back on normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I'm Mary Kathryn Hamp.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz. How was your weekend, Mary Kathryn?

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Oh, it was pretty good. I was offline for about 36 hours, so that's always fun. I was camping with no signal.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, nice. I love that. I mean, I don't love camping, but I do love the being offline. I don't mind camping. It's a surprising fact about me is that is totally okay with one night of camping.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

I'm really. I. I would say I'm only okay with camping as well. Like, it's like, I will do it and while I'm there, I'm making the best of it. But it's a little off brand for me not to be very excited about it, frankly.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, I can see that. So I had a very unpopular tweet last night and I felt like a lot of people were like, we'll talk to Mary Catherine about this because she'll set you straight. And so I will say I feel like my slice of life tweets, A do very well and B, are usually people are on my side. So this was a bit of a surprise. But last night an NFL player on TV live. Well, not live. It was pre recorded, but it was played live, said nut up or shut up on NBC. It wasn't even 8pm yet. Am I approved for thinking that is unacceptable?

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

I think that I would not react badly to it, but I also judge myself for not reacting badly.

[Carol Markowitz]

So funny because I judge myself for reacting badly. I'm like, have I become like a square in my old age? Because I used to not care at all. But you know, my thing is I, I just feel like censorship, like, like makes no sense. There's a Kanye west song I used to love. You know, I hate Kanye now, but I used to, you know, I loved his music. I still love his music, honestly. But he had a song where he was. It was Love Letter Chicago and there was a line in it. Her name was Windy, she liked to blow trees. Now it's a double entendre about smoking marijuana, but that would get beeped out on the radio. Her name was Windy. She liked to blow trees about. A song about Chicago was beeped out on the radio. And yet this guy could say nut or shut up. At a time where like kids are still watching and my kids were watching.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense which things you can say. And having worked in live Radio. We were well versed on things. You could say, for instance, the word. I believe this is correct. The word piss, excuse me, could be used in certain contexts, but not others. Like, you couldn't refer to it as actual. The actual substance, but you could refer to someone as pissed off. Like it was. There's all sorts of, like. Yeah, there's all. All sorts of strange rules that they. That they put on you.

[Carol Markowitz]

I feel like if it was cable, I wouldn't even care. But like NBC on a Sunday night, not even 8pm yes. Yeah. Bit much. Get off my lawn. I don't care. I stand by what I said.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

You. I'm a square now. Deal with it.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm a square and I don't even care. It's good. All right, let's get real.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Freedom is. Well, speaking of normally, Carol, it looks like the government might be operating normally. No, I mean, look, it's graded on a curve, guys. But it looks like the government will be imminently reopening thanks to a vote in the Senate, which will then proceed apace to the House.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. So, the Wall Street Journal reports the decision by eight members of the Senate Democratic Caucus decide with Republicans to advance a bill Sunday night to end the government shutdown drew heated condemnations from other members of the party and reopened long divisions on how to best fight against President Trump. Democrats were coming off strong election wins last Tuesday. And many lawmakers and activists said the results showed that Senate Democrats should continue to hold the line on their demands for extending enhanced Affordable Care act subsidies. But the small group of defectors reasoned Sunday that the shutdown had caused too much pain and that the modest concessions from Republicans, including a pledge to hold a vote on health care, were enough. The Democrats are losing their minds over this. Like, we hear that blue sky is just falling apart.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to emphasize the facts on this, which are. Let me just read through the dates on which the government could have reopened. September 19, September 30, October 1, October 3, October 6. These are all dates that the Senate took a vote on the continuing resolution which would have funded the government.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

And everything would have seamlessly reopened without any of this happening. I'll go on. October 8th, October 9th, October 14th, October 15th, 16th, 20th, 22nd, 28th, November 4th. So I believe there's a total of 14 votes. And it was Democrats who would not cross over to join Republicans to vote for this clean continuing resolution. Their ask was for these. Not to put too fine a point on it, stupid and dumb and bad. Bumped up subsidies from the COVID era for Obamacare, which were designed to go to insurance companies to the tune of billions and billions and tens of billions of dollars to cover up the fact that premiums are going up.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Because of what Obamacare has wrought.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

That was the ask. They didn't get the ask. So they did all this for six weeks for nothing. Really. Nada.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. There's just. I mean, the fact that they allowed this to go on this long. Senator John Fetterman has been actually completely on the right side of this. I can't believe what an amazing figure he is in the Senate. I am sure he's going to disappoint me down the road, but there's so much that he does is good. He tweeted after 40 days as a consistent voice against shutting our government down. I voted yes for the 15th time to reopen. I. I'm sorry. To our military SNAP recipients, government workers and Capitol police who haven't been paid in weeks. It shouldn't have come to this. This was a failure. It's absolutely right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Well, and look, one. One might fairly ask of me, are you consistent on this? And I would say yes, because when Ted Cruz decided we should shut down the government in 2013 to repeal Obamacare, I was like, that's not gonna happen. And you are therefore leading yourself to political problems and to real problems for real people.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

By disrupting the government in this manner. And I. Look, if somebody's willing to take on the political cost because they feel like this is a really important issue and we must talk about it, that's one thing. What I don't like is this being turned on its head. Where Democrats have now been rewarded for shutting down the government for six weeks, which is what happened here. They kind of signaled to their voters. The chaos, even though we're literally causing it, is Trump's chaos.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

And many people bought that, despite the 14 dates I gave you where they could have opened the government at any moment.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right? Absolutely. It was a political calculation for them. They waited until the election to cause as much damage as they could to their own voters so that their voters would vote their way. And you don't have to take our word for it. Here is Senator Kaine talking about it.

[Senator Tim Kaine]

I didn't fully understand how dug in they were again, because I was so focused on the Virginia elections. I wasn't in this discussion on the health care to see how dug in they were. But even as I was not part of these discussions, I was saying to Thune and Others on the floor going back, listen, I need some of you heard me say this in the hall. I need a moratorium on mischief. Others are working on the health care thing. I trust them. Others are working on the approach thing. I trust them. I need a moratorium on mischief. Because if we vote to open and then the immediate step next week is Donald Trump fires a lot more people, it's going to blow up trust to get the full year deal. And so I've been, I've been preaching this moratorium on mischief for a month. But I think partly, why did they finally give me the moratorium on mischief on rifts? They needed my vote. But they also saw the election on Tuesday.

[Carol Markowitz]

That wasn't it. I really don't think that that election actually played that big a role here. Here is Ezra Klein in the New York Times on how Democrats were winning the shutdown and should have kept the shutdown going. He says, if I were in the Senate, I wouldn't vote for this compromise. Shutdowns are an opportunity to make your arguments. And the country was just starting to pay attention. If Trump wanted to cancel flights over Thanksgiving rather than keep healthcare costs down, I don't see why Democrats should save him from making his priorities so exquis clear. And I worry that Democrats have just taught Trump that they will fold under pressure. That's the kind of lesson he remembers. I think a lot of people understood what we were talking about last episode, that the elections weren't a symbol or a sign. They were off year elections in largely blue areas and they were supposed to go that way. So using the elections as some sort of like, you know, sign here that the Democrats were winning and that it was all going to be okay is ridiculous. And it would have been the Democrats canceling flights over Thanksgiving. Whether or not Republicans could appropriately tell that story is a separate issue. But it absolutely would have been their fault.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Well, that's the thing, and I think it's, it's revealing of Klein here that he's Mr. Make Government Work properly. But when given a chance to make government work properly or to continue to drag Republicans for who knows what by making it work improperly, he chooses, let's blow it up. Continue to blow it up. Let people live Thanksgiving where they cannot travel to see their loved ones, just as we did. By the way, let's, let's memorialize our 2020 behavior, our 2021 behavior and say, yeah, you can't see your loved ones. Suck it. Excuse me, that's not fit for broadcast either. I don't think.

[Carol Markowitz]

But yeah, he's choosing politics over abundance. Governing, which is his kind of his thing.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yeah. Well. And a lot of people are saying, look, I do think, I think it's the morally right decision to try to get this thing back on track. I think the ask that they were making was a stupid one.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Way too far. Those subsidies don't make any sense. They were designed to be emergency and temporary and they were dumb at even doing that. Now there are risks for Republicans here, which is that there's now a health care discussion on the plate. Now, I don't mind having that discussion. I wrote in Fox News last week about why these subsidies are bad, why they reveal that Obamacare was bad from the beginning and why we should shift to more patient, focused, choice related reforms that are small, that you can give people control over their money. Which is, by the way, one of the things Trump was pitching saying, hey, if we're going to give away a bunch of money, let's give it away to people's health savings accounts so they can use it as they see fit.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Which I think is something that could appeal to people.

[Carol Markowitz]

I, I think so as well. I think the Democrats are going to oppose it with every bone in their entire bodies. And the thing is that they have to cater to the blue sky crowd. They, if they're taking lessons from the election, one of the, one of the election lessons for them is the far left, you know, socialist mayor is the most popular Democrat in the country right now. They're going to take that lesson and run with it. I think it's not going to be good for, for Americans, but I don't think that matters. And I think that they don't care right now. And stopping Donald Trump and getting political wins is all they care about right now.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Well, and you, you see it outlined in the New York Times covered where they're going to have primary duels because Democrats are facing what Republicans faced during the Tea Party era, which is a bunch of ground up anger about how they're not fighting the president that the base doesn't like hard enough. The base is not listening to how it might be advantageous for them to fight in different ways. I think part of the reason they waited past the election was and they expressed this like on background to Axios was that Democrats were scared of their voters being literally homicidal. And they were like, we have to keep giving them something right or they will kill people. So I mean, they expressed that in actual words, them, not me. So I think they were looking for that, hoping that these election results would cheer them up a little bit on Blue Sky. That won't be the case. For a lot of normal people, it probably will. And then you have this same dynamic at play in every Senate and House primary that could be flippable in the 2026 election. So even though Trump's approval rating is down, Republicans not faring well post this election. I think they have things to think about. They may get themselves into some serious trouble with the energy and the excitement behind people in primaries who might not be electable in general elections. Yep.

[Carol Markowitz]

Seen this film before?

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yep. Mr. Nazi tattoo being among those. Right, right.

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll see how that goes.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Meanwhile, did you see Abigail Spanberger, who, like again, I've said she didn't moderate on much of anything. She was on the Sunday shows this week being like, hey guys, the reason I was elected is because Virginians think the government should operate properly. Maybe let's not do this.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, ixnay on the shutdown.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Exactly. She was doing her best out there.

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Right?

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll be right back with more on Normale.

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[Carol Markowitz]

We are back on normally and look, it's not just Democrats that have some questionable ideas. Donald Trump floated two such ideas over the weekend. You know I've said on here before that especially on economics, I defer to him a lot more this term than last term. I I'm still a free market person. I just don't see the free market like I if other countries are tariffing us at high levels like I get why we would reciprocate. I also understand using the tariffs as leverage in a way that like as he does, does it bring down costs? All remains to be seen. So far, not so much. So this weekend he floats two ideas and one of them is a 50 year mortgage. He has a post on his Truth Social great American presidents. He has President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who introduced the 30 year mortgage and then he has a picture of himself President Trump who is introducing the 50 year mortgage.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

I mean look, if you're just measuring in years, that's obviously better. Like here we go, he's just topped fdr.

[Carol Markowitz]

I also don't think Republicans generally see FDR as a great American president. I see him as one of the worst presidents we've ever had. So I don't love that he's looking to FDR for tips on being a great president. But again, on this, like, okay, the argument obviously is who benefits here? Banks. Because they're going to have an extra 20 years of, you know, of costs and they're just gonna, they're gonna do very well on interest rates here. Yeah, the, the flip side argument is people can't afford houses and they will be willing to take the chance that they, yes, they'll pay more in the long run, but at least they'll have the house now and they will say, you know, build equity and not be throwing their money away on rent. I get it. I really get it. It's not conservative for sure. And that's, you know, a long running problem or issue with the Trump administration. Does it matter that he is not conservative on these issues? Is he trying new things out of the box that maybe conservatives will adapt to? All kind of a big question mark.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Well, and that's, it might be too easy or too facile a phrase, but I find it useful, which is at times like this, I'm like, look, this is the choice that faced many voters, which is if you give me a 1989 Democrat and a 2025 Democrat to choose between, I'm going to take the 89 Democrat.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Yep.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Because the 2025 Democrats have lost their way. But Trump is in many ways an early 90s, late 80s Democrat.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

And an early 90s, late 80s democrat would like this idea, would like tariffs, would even think FDR was a pretty awesome president on domestic economic fronts. Right. And so that, that's what you end up with. I think these are not great ideas. And I think beyond that, Trump, when talking about some specific industries, because he's trying to get back to an affordability argument, because he's concerned about vulnerabilities there for 2026, he's gone way too far to the Elizabeth Warren argument that the companies themselves are messing with you. This has nothing to do with anything else, that supply and demand. Oh, let's put that aside. And that like greedflation is back. Greedflation is not a thing.

[Carol Markowitz]

Not a thing.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Like they're trying to do the best they can. They have to hit profit margins in order to continue to operate. There is real crony capitalism involved. And I, you know, those are things that you can eliminate if you're a conservative president who would like to do those things. And sometimes he has. But, you know, yelling about the companies and their profit margins isn't the conservative way of dealing with this. And I think one of the ways that Trump has been good in the past is eliminating regulations, which for building, which would be a really great thing to do for housing costs.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, that, that is one of his strengths. That was like probably one of my favorite things in the first Trump administration. Getting rid of regulations was incredibly strong and something that Republicans hadn't done that well in the past. His other idea from this weekend, he posted about sending out $2,000 stimulus checks.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

He.

[Carol Markowitz]

His post is people that are against tariffs are fools. Capital letters. We are now the richest, most respected country in the world with almost no inflation and a record stock market price. I should tell you, there's random capitalization all throughout that. Of course, yes, 401ks are highest ever. We are taking in trillions of dollars and will soon begin paying down our enormous debt. 37 trillion record investment in the USA, plants and factories going up all over the place. A dividend of at least $2,000 a person, not including high income people, exclamation point, will be paid to everyone. Terrible, Terrible. And, and look, and you know, here we can't really make the argument that, oh, you know, he's out of step with like the Republicans of yesteryear. George W. Bush also sent out stimulus checks. So after 9 11, terrible idea. Stimulus checks are inflationary. They pump more money into the economy. Prices go up. I'm not a finance person at all, but like, it's a very easy line to draw. And it's what happened during COVID and the money that the government was pumping into the economy, which we still have not recovered from. I still, I'm like, I'm a gasper at prices sometimes. Like, just like, how could that be the price of that?

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Well, and think about it from everyone's point of view. Like, if you and I are having that reaction and I usually use this, like, obviously I live in a high cost of living area. That's part of it. Actually. There are times when I order a beer in North Carolina and I'm like, I'm sorry, what? 3:50. Did you get that? I had two. But, but we live in a high cost of living area. That's part of it. But given that I know my economic status versus many more struggling people to go into a grocery store and regularly go, oh my goodness, how much that costs now? Yeah, like that is, that is reflected in much bigger ways much further down the.

[Carol Markowitz]

And we're not shopping at like the Erewhons in California where they have like the $35 jug of water. It's like I had, I saw a $7 mango yesterday.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Like, what?

[Carol Markowitz]

What's in that Mango should be your.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Book title about inflation. The $7 mango. No, I think, look, unfortunately, and I have thought this throughout, the tariff arguments end up being pretty incoherent. Like, are we doing them to raise revenue? Are we doing them to bring back investing? Are we doing them to give stimulus checks to people? For Trump, it's often, I like tariffs and we will find the quickest path to justifying what the tariff is doing at any given moment. I went into that with open eyes. Right. He was elected. Like, let's. He gets to do his thing for a while.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly right. But I just, he ran on this.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

So I do think, and. Well, and I've always thought from the beginning that on affordability, if you are making the argument from the beginning that this is short term pain but long term gain, you better see that gain pretty quickly. And people are right to go. You're telling me you're adding to prices? That's what you're telling me. And that's what he's trying to ameliorate by sending money out the door again. But much like subsidizing Obamacare subsidy or plans or giving unlimited credit to college students, it will make the problem worse. That's right. We don't want to do that. One more bad idea from Trump this week. Blowing up the filibuster.

[Carol Markowitz]

You know, I don't know. Was that a bad idea? So, okay, I wouldn't want him to blow up the filibuster because, yes, obviously the Democrats will use it at their very next opportunity. But did it bring the Democrats to the table? This is the, this is the thing with Trump. Is he a genius or is he like, a madman? And like, he's kind of a little bit of both and you just don't really know.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

So my concern was I'm actually a little surprised that a deal came together, given that he was making so much noise about the filibuster, because I thought that Democrats being rather shortsighted themselves would be like, this is the thing we've always wanted and if we win, we get to do anything we want. If we can just get 50 Senate seats, I think that's disastrous for America. The Senate is supposed to move slowly and deliberately, even though it's often dumb. It's supposed to be that way. I thought he was giving them a release valve where they wouldn't come to the table because they'd be like, we'll just wait for you to do the thing that we want you to do. Pretty fantastic, right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

But it didn't turn out that way. So I've often been wrong when his weird gut calculations have been right. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

I have one more Trumpism for for this last, you know, for this middle segment as we're going to air, he posted on Truth Social, all air traffic controllers must get back to work now. Three exclamation points. Anyone who doesn't will be substantially docked. For those air traffic controllers who were great patriots and didn't take any time off for the Democrat shutdown hoax, I will be recommending a bonus of $10,000 per person for December distinguished service to our country. Now again, is he a genius or a madman? Because and it goes on and on, you know, fake Democrat attack. I'm not happy with you to tell you the air traffic controllers, but you know, there's something to be said for the people who stayed on their post when they weren't getting paid. And him introducing this bonus is like, you know, a reward to the people who did the right thing.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

It would be one of the few ways that this shutdown rewarded good behavior. So yeah, I'm open to it. I'm a little surprised that they came to an agreement, but it is the right thing to do.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, let's see if we get through it. But yeah, next episode we're like, actually, the shutdown is still on.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

We shall see.

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll be right back with more on Normalely.

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[Carol Markowitz]

Time.

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[Lenovo Pro Advertiser / Ed Helms]

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[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Penn and we're the hosts of Earsay.

[Lenovo Pro Advertiser / Ed Helms]

The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Carol Markowitz]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

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[Lenovo Pro Advertiser / Ed Helms]

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[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

All right, Carol, I wanted to talk a little bit about the. The culture war, the anti wokeness of it all. Even though the election day did not look great for Republicans, the culture world continues to pay dividends. The left having sort of gone off the cliff. And the New York Times profile of the Sierra Club is just the latest example. And again, it's a bit facile, but Go woke, go broke seems to be exactly what the Sierra Club. The headline is. Sierra Club embraced social justice and then it tore itself apart. Just the top lines here. The Sierra Club, which was a huge nationwide environmental group that was understood to be dedicated to environmental issues for a very long time, originally established to protect the Sierra Nevada.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

The group has lost 60% of the 4 million members and supporters it counted in 2016. It has held three rounds of employee layoffs since 2022, trying to climb out of a $40 million projected budget deficit. Its political giving has also dropped. Federal campaign finance records show it put 33.6 million in donations toward the defeat of Donald Trump in 2020 and none in 2024 because they tore themselves apart during those four years.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. There's also the question of their expenses, which just continue to go up even as revenue did not. It is a case of what is the point of view. And I think a lot of people started to kind of move away from climate change is going to end the world tomorrow. I mean, see Bill Gates on that. And they wanted to maybe put their money towards progressive causes that had a solution moving in the direction of, you know, something that they could have as a tangible win.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Well, and the Sierra Club is interesting because, look, I don't agree with its old goal, but it's old and pretty successful goal that it built all this support under was we're going to make it really hard to keep coal plants open. And they sued and they demonstrated and they did all these things and by the numbers they, you know, cut down on those things. Now for their constituency, that was important and good. And then after that was done and natural gas and other alternatives had sort of come into that area, not terribly effectively all the time, particularly with wind and electric. But again, putting aside their. Whether their goals are good or not, they then went on to become everything to everyone.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

They decided that they were going to do to be diversity, equity, inclusion, they were going to be racial justice. They were going to be anything and everything. And that did not go well for them.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. They resistance group like any other. Resistance group.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yes. Yeah. Their, their new focus included focus, I use the term lightly. Racial justice, labor rights, gay rights, immigrant rights, and more. And to this day, the leadership stands by that shift that has coincided with this incredible contraction of its membership and ability to do the, I would say damaging things it has been doing in the past. Like, I rejoice, but the people you're serving probably shouldn't be.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. Right. They got $120 million from Michael Bloomberg and he could have given every American a million dollars with that.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

I think that, I think the math is correct.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm just joking, friends. I'd look at, look up the Michael Bloomberg can give every American $1 million reference. New York Times editorial board member did some poor math on MSNBC and they let her continue to get away with that.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

There's a couple funny quotes from this one. My favorite one might be, there were some people who were employed by the Sierra Club that felt like they didn't fall in love or file. Excuse me, fall in line with these new directives. Between 2020 and 2022, they were ostracized, sometimes even investigated. One woman, Delia Malone, an ecologist and volunteer for the club's Colorado chapter, said she heard from attorneys hired by the Sierra Club seeking to interview her as part of investigation against her. And she said, what's the claim and who made it? They said, we can't tell you that. And Ms. Malone thought that someone else in the chapter had filed a complaint. She recalled an incident when a club staff member had scolded her for saying that the club should lobby Colorado's legislature for more protections for wolves. That seems within the club's milieu. One of the staff said, that's fine, Delia. But what do wolves have to do with equity, justice, and inclusion, Delia? That's fine, Delia. And I also want to point to this as the pattern that you point out often, which is that they went from effective, focused organization to every racial justice, social justice thing under the sun, everything to everyone, which meant they became ineffective. At which point, what did they do, Carol? They became anti Semitic. They canceled trip to Israel. They. They decided that Palestine is an environmental issue. From our standpoint, of course. Yeah. And they just, like, went headlong into that as well.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep. Good work, everyone. Also, Sydney Sweeney, that was our other woke story from the last week. She gave a masterclass in not responding to bait from liberal journalists. She really.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

I.

[Carol Markowitz]

You know, the only thing I would say is her jacket looked a little uncomfortable, and I just wanted to, like, flip her hair out of it because, like, you know, as a woman with long hair who gets it caught in my jacket a lot of the time, you know, I know that that's. That's tough, but she did really great.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yeah. Let's. Let's play a little clip of this question she's asked about her very famous American Eagle ad campaign. The criticism of the content, which was basically that maybe, specifically in this political climate, like, white people shouldn't joke about genetic superiority. Like, that was kind of like the criticism, broadly speaking. And since you are talking about this, I just wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about that specifically. I think that when I have an issue that I want to speak about, people will hear.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. There's nothing else to say. That's it. That is the answer that you give, like I'll let you know when I have something to tell you. And it won't be in a Gene's ed.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yeah, I love this because actually, when Guy and I wrote end of discussion lo these many years ago, ten years ago now, we noted the Joan Rivers way of dealing with these kinds of incidents. So Joan Rivers would make a joke, and someone would say that joke is offensive. And then they would find her at the airport, TMZ or whoever and say, like, your joke was offensive. People didn't like it. And she would be like, I don't care.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. I don't care.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Yeah, right. So do not apologize when you don't have anything to apologize for. And that's what got a lot of people in that crazy 2020-2023 area. They were just apologizing for everything. And the truth is, once you apologize, they have their new storyline, which is, she apologized but not good enough. Right.

[Carol Markowitz]

Never good enough. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

And Sweeney's just like, short circuit. And when she does that, you can tell the interviewer doesn't exactly know what to do.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. The interviewer also has trouble making eye contact with her, where Sweeney is like, daggers from her eyes. And that's become the meme where she's just staring at her interviewer, like, not even. Not afraid, not blinking, like, you know, you can't come for me is the look on her face.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Question, real quick. Do you think all of this is planned? Right. Because celebrity interviews are all planned. I assume that there was some idea that they would talk about this.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

But maybe the interviewer just, like, she's a pro as well. Did she think she was gonna get some more friendly response than this?

[Carol Markowitz]

I think she thought she was going to get something. There's no way she thought she was gonna get a blank stare and, like. But just the fact that she wasn't making eye contact with Sweeney, it kind of. That was the tell for a lot of people, that she knew she was doing something wrong. She was trying to catch this young actress in a political scandal, and Sweeney just wasn't having it.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

I think her power is. Is really. And this is true for anyone in the public eye, she knows who she is, and she is not bumped. When someone asks her something like this, it's very clear.

[Carol Markowitz]

And, you know, she. She often posts Instagrams about her family, and they seem like a very tight bunch. And she got in trouble, of course, because her mom had a, you know, make 60 great again party a few years ago, and she didn't apologize for that one either. She has a very close family and I think that having that universe outside of Hollywood has been very, very good for her.

[Mary Kathryn Hamp]

Well, good honor.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yep, we like her. Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us at Normally the [e-mail]. thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally.

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