Normally Podcast: Navigating the Trade War: Tariffs and Tensions

Summary

Summary of "Navigating the Trade War: Tariffs and Tensions"

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show’s episode titled "Navigating the Trade War: Tariffs and Tensions," released on April 10, 2025, delves into the complexities of the ongoing trade war, recent tariff adjustments by former President Donald Trump, and the broader implications for international trade and domestic markets. Additionally, the episode explores the influence of social media campaigns in political maneuvering and examines the erosion of trust in mainstream media.

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1. Introduction to the Trade War

Mary Kathryn Hume and Carol Markowitz kick off the discussion by addressing the current state of the trade war, focusing on recent developments in tariff policies. They emphasize the unpredictability and volatility that leaders like Donald Trump bring to international trade relations.

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2. Trump's Recent Tariff Announcement

At [03:10], Mary Kathryn Hume outlines Donald Trump’s latest move: a 90-day pause on reciprocal tariffs imposed on over 75 countries, excluding China. She quotes Trump's announcement:

"Based on the lack of respect that China has shown to the world's markets, I am hereby raising the tariff charged to China by the United States of America to 125% effective immediately" ([03:10]).

Hume explains that while the baseline 10% tariff remains, the additional tariffs are temporarily halted to reassess the trade dynamics, particularly with nations that have not retaliated against the U.S.

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3. Market Reaction and Economic Implications

Carol Markowitz notes the markets' positive response to the tariff pause, highlighting the reduced uncertainty for investors:

"The markets responded well to this. They like the pause as they did to the fake news about a pause a couple of days ago" ([04:28]).

Hume adds that this pause, though temporary, may provide some relief and stability, but the underlying tensions, especially with China, persist.

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4. Impact on Manufacturing and Employment

The hosts discuss the broader implications for U.S. manufacturing and employment. Markowitz expresses skepticism about the feasibility of repatriating manufacturing jobs amidst increasing automation:

"We’re happy with this. If we could just say we won and leave it here, that would be good, in my opinion" ([07:01]).

Hume counters by pointing out the existing unfilled manufacturing positions, attributing the gap to inadequate training and a shift away from vocational education:

"I think one of the issues is that we need to do a better job of training people for those type of jobs, which is a skill we've lost over the years" ([07:37]).

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5. Media Influence and Political Campaigning

Transitioning to the role of media and influencer campaigns in politics, Mary Kathryn Hume introduces Lee H. Fang’s investigation into Kamala Harris’s social media presence:

"Lee Fang has found that the whole Kamala Harris Brat summer was actually astroturf" ([12:19]).

Markowitz summarizes Fang's findings, revealing that significant funds were channeled through nonprofit organizations to orchestrate influencer campaigns supporting Harris, raising questions about transparency and ethical practices in political advertising.

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6. Ethical Concerns and Transparency in Influencer Marketing

The discussion delves into the ethical implications of undisclosed influencer endorsements in political contexts. Clover Markowitz highlights the absence of stringent disclosure requirements:

"No such rules exist for social media for these influencers on Instagram, TikTok and what have you, it's really the Wild West" ([14:38]).

Hume echoes these concerns, questioning the potential misuse of taxpayer money through nonprofit channels to fund such campaigns and stressing the need for clearer regulatory frameworks.

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7. Erosion of Trust in Mainstream Media

Shifting focus, Hume and Markowitz examine the declining trust in mainstream media. Referencing Jim Vande Hei’s insights from Axios, they discuss how platforms like Twitter have exposed journalists' biases, contributing to public skepticism:

"I think those three things in totality really cemented the distrust that a lot of people have in media" ([26:17]).

Hume, coming from a family of journalists, critiques the prevalent left-leaning bias in newsrooms, asserting that it alienates portions of the audience and fosters a disconnect between journalists and the public.

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8. The Role of Groupthink and Media Accountability

Markowitz and Hume debate the influence of groupthink within media institutions, suggesting that homogenized viewpoints undermine journalistic integrity. Hume emphasizes the importance of transparency about personal biases to rebuild trust:

"I prefer it to be crystal clear what their biases are, because I knew before. Stop hiding it from me" ([27:48]).

They advocate for media accountability and the establishment of guidelines to ensure that influencer-driven political content is transparent and ethically produced.

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9. Conclusion and Final Insights

In wrapping up, the hosts reiterate the necessity for trustworthy media narratives and express a commitment to unbiased reporting:

"We're going to tell you the truth on this show whether or not you like it" ([31:01]).

They highlight the challenges ahead in navigating trade tensions and rebuilding media credibility, underscoring the episode’s central theme of seeking honesty and transparency in both politics and journalism.

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Notable Quotes

• Mary Kathryn Hume at [03:10]: "Based on the lack of respect that China has shown to the world's markets, I am hereby raising the tariff charged to China by the United States of America to 125% effective immediately."

• Carol Markowitz at [04:28]: "The markets responded well to this. They like the pause as they did to the fake news about a pause a couple of days ago."

• Mary Kathryn Hume at [07:37]: "I think one of the issues is that we need to do a better job of training people for those type of jobs, which is a skill we've lost over the years."

• Carol Markowitz at [14:38]: "No such rules exist for social media for these influencers on Instagram, TikTok and what have you, it's really the Wild West."

• Mary Kathryn Hume at [26:17]: "I think those three things in totality really cemented the distrust that a lot of people have in media."

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This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the interplay between international trade policies, political influence via social media, and the declining trust in mainstream media. Hume and Markowitz offer insightful perspectives on the challenges facing the U.S. economy and the media landscape, advocating for greater transparency and accountability to foster a more informed and trusting public.

Transcript

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[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Well, hey guys, we are back on normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. I am Mary Kathryn Hume.

[Carol Markowitz]

I'm Carol Markowitz. I keep waiting for the news. Not to be weird, but it's just weird every day. Mary Kathryn it's weird every day.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

The upside of the tagline and I'm having a weird week because I'm working without a net. I have no childcare. So we're recording during nap time and we're crossing our fingers. But we can do it, Carol.

[Carol Markowitz]

It's gonna be a fast one. Let's do it.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Oh my goodness. Well, there's news in the trade war on the tariff front and that is that Donald Trump announced via Truth social network that he is pausing for 90 days tariffs on everyone else. The reciprocal tariffs, not the baseline 10% which will still exist. All right, pausing the extra ones for 90 days except for on China. Here's the truth. Based on the lack of respect that China has shown to the world's markets, I am hereby raising the tariff charged to China by the United States of America to 125% effective immediately. @ some point, hopefully in the near future, China will realize that the days of ripping off the USA and other countries is no longer sustainable or acceptable. Conversely, and based on the fact that more than 75 countries have called representatives of the United States, including the Departments of Commerce, treasury and the U.S. trade Representative's Office to negotiate a solution to the subjects being discussed relative to trade, trade barriers, tariffs, currency manipulation of non monetary tariffs, and that these countries have not at my strong suggestion, retaliated in any way, shape or form against the United States, I have authorized a 90 day pause and substantially lowered reciprocal tariff during this period of 10% also effective immediately. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

[Carol Markowitz]

Everyone's like glued to their television screen.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Like I mean he, he has a way.

[Carol Markowitz]

He really does. He really does. Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

So the markets responded well to this. They like of a pause as they did to the fake news about a pause a couple of days ago. That should show the President something. I'm not sure. Again, this is the problem with the whole structure of this is that he can change his mind unless Congress takes this power back in a moment if he wants to. I like the idea of going after China.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

But being chiller with people who are not involved in a bunch of unfair practices. That seems good to me. Getting closer to Zero for zero tariffs seems good to me. Do I think that was the plan here? I'm not sure, but I'm glad we're here at the moment.

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, that's the thing, right? What was the plan? Was there a plan? We'll never know. And I look again, you and I have been sort of, I think, not. Not cautiously optimistic, but just cautious in general about this whole thing. And we're not surprised that it ended up here for now again. It might start back up again in 90 days. This is pretty much where we predicted he'd be. Maybe we didn't see the China angle coming. I thought maybe he would be across the board posit for 90 days. I'm not mad at this. I think that China does deserve some retribution for what they do to us. And look, if this is where we end up, I think that'll be okay.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Howard Lutnick, who is the Commerce Secretary, tweeted, I just found this very funny. As a Cabinet member for Trump, Scott Besant and I sat with the President while he wrote one of the most extraordinary of his presidency. The world is ready to work with President Trump to fix global trade, and China has chosen the opposite direction. I have a feeling that Scott Besant was like, this looks like a win to me, sir. And here's how we can tell that story. Besant's quote is, this was driven by the President's strategy. This was his strategy all along. You might even say he goaded China into a bad position. They have shown themselves to the world to be bad actors, and we are willing to cooperate with our allies and with our trading partners who did not retaliate again. I think this is a reframing, but it's one that I don't mind if it gets us.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, let's declare victory and get the hell out of this.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Yes. Go back to cutting the federal workforce, please.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. I think things were going so well until this tariff thing. The idea of bringing back manufacturing seems like a stretch, but I'm open to hearing plans about it. Look, all of this is heading towards being automated anyway, so this idea of let's bring back these amazing jobs and have manufacturing in the United States probably isn't what's actually going to happen. We'll see. I'm happy with this. If we could just say we won and leave it here, that would be good, in my opinion.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Yeah. By the way, we have manufacturing jobs that go unfilled here, so it's not as if they don't exist. I think one of the issues is that we need to do a better job of training people for those type of jobs, which is a skill we've lost over the years. Maybe doing a little too much DEI teaching in the schools instead of shop class, that kind of thing. And I do remain concerned about the uncertainty itself. And that is just like the price of admission with Trump.

[Carol Markowitz]

It so is. Yeah, you're getting on a roller coaster, enjoy the ride.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

But it does have effects, you know, in real time because people will like on the real markets because people will get worried about investing their money and I don't want them worried about that. Absolutely.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

I think this is a better track though.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. The uncertainty is obviously the key problem with the last few days. But I will say that if we knew that he was going to pause the tariffs, then I have to imagine the people investing in the markets also had an inkling that that was going to happen. You know, buy the dip, sell it. When Trump pauses the tariffs, that, you know, that's where we are basically.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

One Robbie Suavey was, was bragging about how he had, he had guessed this almost with very, almost with the same language that the President presented. So he writes for Reason magazine. So I appreciated that.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, again, I think we guessed it. We basically said that that was where he was going to end up. I mean, again, this is not an ending. So we don't know, but we felt like there was going to be a pause and look, there's one. So follow us for more investing advice.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Well, I mean the thing is too that like normies who are not necessarily heavy investors but have 401ks who are watching the markets or hearing things while they're, you know, have CNBC on in the background or, you know, worried about the impact it might have on grocery prices, which is something that we should care about for regular people. Right. They're not maybe thinking through all the details of trade policy, but they're concerned just like we are. And I think it's good to give them some comfort.

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll be right back on Normally bring.

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[Carol Markowitz]

At RealClear Investigations. You're going to be so surprised by this, Mary Kathryn Lee Fang has found that the whole Kamala Harris Brat summer was actually astroturf.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

No way.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, I know, I know. I too could not believe it. Lee writes. Influencers flooded the web with neon Matcha Green Pro Harris videos synced to beats from Charli XCX's album Brat, released last summer. Last year, the poppy rave videos gushed journalists showed that Harris embodied the confidently independent Brat vibe conveyed by the music. Social media pages bubbled with memes celebrating Harris as the voice of queer and black youth in contrast with the Republican agenda of white supremacy. Now this was a career politician who was deeply entrenched in the Democratic Party's establishment and she was somehow rebranded as like the latest coolest thing. It all seemed a bit suspicious at the time. Now, RealClear obtained internal documents and WhatsApp messages from Democratic strategists behind the influencer campaign called Way to Win. One of the major donor groups behind the effort, they spent more than $9.1 million on social media influencers. During the 2024 presidential election, 550 content creators published 6,644 posts across TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Twitch and X. The thing is that we have no idea that any of this goes on until after the fact. If then this story has barely been hitting, you know, any of the mainstream news outlets. We felt like we had to talk about it on the show because it's been so undercovered. Let's listen to this clip from Lee about what the problem is in getting kind of to the truth of this sort of thing.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

This whole thing raises ethical concerns about transparency in political campaigning. Should there be stricter disclosure requirements imposed on influencers for influencer based political content?

[Cindy Crawford]

Look, we've had rules for decades now where, you know, if you sponsor a billboard, a radio ad, a television ad, the last few seconds of that message has to show sponsored it. You know, on the billboard there's a disclosure at the bottom which pack or campaign sponsored that message. No such rules exist for social media for these influencers on Instagram, TikTok and what have you, it's really the Wild West. At the end of 2023, the federal election Commission proposed some influencer payola disclosures. They deadlocked on the issue. There was no movement. So right now, really anything could happen. And we're seeing this problem more and more on both sides. Both Republicans and Democrats have kind of got caught doing this. This particular story that we're reporting this week, this is the biggest, I think, effort of this type on either side. Democrats spending $10 million just in this one kind of organization. But it's a big problem and it's a big problem for disclosure. We haven't really resolved it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, you know, you and I have talked about recently when the Florida bill came up about immigration. Influencers were paid to praise a Florida politician. It was so obvious, but. And then somebody found the actual payment structure of that. It is the Wild West. We don't know who's getting paid for what. These influencers are taking money for their opinion. And it's sort of interesting because obviously, you know, and again, we've talked about it on here, but like, if they already believe what they're saying, I guess the feeling is, like, why shouldn't I get paid for it? But everybody else has to disclose. I think they should have to also.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

No, I think it's tricky because it is in this area, this gray area of election law, so you don't really have to disclose this stuff. What worried me. And by the way, I appreciate Lee's reporting often, and he's Lee H. Fang on X, if you want to follow him. He does a lot of interesting work along these lines. And it takes a lot of work to track down all these DMs and all the hazy financing. But he notes that Way to Win, which is the organization that did this stuff, structured the funds through nonprofit corporations that paid various influencer talent agencies, firms such as Pallet Management and Vocal Media. So it's all intertwined. But the nonprofit groups struck me, like, how much, perhaps taxpayer money is going to various nonprofits that can get dumped into electioneering and influencer campaigns. Although, like you said, Carol, we weren't really tricked by this one. I did not think that this was entirely organic. Particularly the brat.

[Carol Markowitz]

Kamala's brat.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So brat.

[Carol Markowitz]

Super brat.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You know what?

[Carol Markowitz]

In her, like, pantsuit.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

I sort of. I sort of enjoy when politics just kills a slang term immediately. Like, brat was really, like, smothered in the crib. That one went so fast. Because once a politician takes it, even though they're trying to tell you the politician's cool, it's over, it's done. Even I can't kill it as quickly as Kamala or Hillary Clinton can.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I mean, once you start using it around your kids, I think it's also usually pretty dead.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

I do delight in that, by the way.

[Carol Markowitz]

Oh, same Skibidi light in that.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Oh, my gosh, yes. Ohio.

[Carol Markowitz]

So much, Riz. But, yeah. So back to this. I think there have to be some guidelines. I don't know how they can establish them. It's so tough. What if you tweet something positive about whatever somebody and somebody hits the tip jar that a lot of these influencers have, do they then have to disclose? I think it's not quite as black and white as an ad. And there have to be some rules to this. Like, I've. You know, I'm sure you have. Also. I've been accused of taking money from various causes forever, right? Open on the record, like, yes, come pay me. But I'm mostly just kidding. I have never taken any money from any cause, ever. I have foolishly done this all for free. And I think that there has to be some level of trust between the consumer of our information and us. And the way that I think we establish that trust is not taking money to push any causes, even causes we already agree with. And so there has to be some sort of policy around this. I don't think this can go on.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

There are ways that social media has made rules for this, so it could come not necessarily from government regulation, but from the social media entities themselves, where a lot of them require tagging something as an ad or disclosing what you're doing, and I don't see why dedicated posts couldn't be treated that way as well. It may not be forthcoming from the fec, however, and like you said, could cause a bunch of other downstream unintended issues. As a result, we're going to take.

[Carol Markowitz]

A short break and come right back with Normale.

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[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Jim Vande Hei, who now works at Axios, I believe, was a founder of Politico. Yeah, that's correct, is at Axios and he was speaking with Barry Weiss on her Honestly podcast about lack of trust in media. Not influencers this time, media. But aren't they sometimes the same? Weren't they pretty similar as well?

[Carol Markowitz]

They're all right.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

I feel like I remember there was one segment post Brett Summer news cycle where a CNN anchor was wearing the color like on on purpose and saying like here we are. That is a hazy memory, but I'm pretty sure that happened. At any rate, Vandehy's talking to her and this is a longish clip, but it's worth listening to the whole thing to get an idea from a guy who's at the top of political media, who's being, I would say, a little more introspective than many of them are, to see what he diagnoses as the problem and then we'll talk about it.

[Announcer]

I feel like the trust really started to shatter over the last decade and I look at it as in three phases. The first was the creation of Twitter. What happened with Twitter is people forget. Like now it's a lot of conservative voices, a lot of independent voices. It was a hotbed of liberal groupthink for a long time and it was the first time since I've been in this business that I would get on a feed and I would see reporters who I had trusted, who I had admired, making it crystal clear what their views were, what side they were on. You could tell in what they were tweeting and you could tell in who they were following and who was following them. So I thought that was stage one, because at least before any bias people had, they hid from the public. Now it was in somewhat full view. Then came along kind of the COVID defund, the police word policing, where I think a lot of Americans were looking around be like, that doesn't sit right with me. And it doesn't, in the way it's being covered, didn't sit right with them. And then I think the final straw really was the coverage of Joe Biden when people were saying, hey, I can see with my own two eyes that the guy seems pretty old, probably doesn't seem capable of being the president in the next term. And yet there's not a whole hell of a lot of coverage of it. We, you know, Alex Thompson, our White House reporter, just won the White House reporting award because he was one of the few reporters to write about the decline of Joe Biden. And he got the hell kicked him. Exactly. Some of the very reporters who may have, you know, who will applaud him when he wins the award in a couple of weeks. If you go back and look at their Twitter feeds, there's a lot of people dunking on him and saying, oh, that's not actually true. And we're on the other ends of the calls from the White House saying that you guys are out on a limb, you're wrong, you're crazy, blah, blah, blah. And so I think those three things in totality really cemented the distrust that a lot of people have in media. And it breaks my heart. I hate that. I love journalism. I am a fierce, fierce defender of journalism. I believe that most reporters at most institutions actually do try to get to the closest approximation of the truth and achieve it. Most of the time. I think it's a couple of bad apples who make it look bad for everyone.

[Carol Markowitz]

I mean, the idea that it was somebody else, you know, it's that whole the meme of the guy in the hot dog costume where he's like, we're looking for the person who did this and not taking any responsibility. I think that's actually problem number one, the things that he diagnoses. He's right. He's right.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

The touchstones are correct, right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes, yes. But the blame placing of some vague other journalists is a little bit too rich.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Yeah, I got a couple problems with this one. At the risk of my reputation, I am a fourth generation newspaper journalist. I know. Shame upon the whole family line.

[Carol Markowitz]

You're so awesome. Come on. That's Amazing.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

So my great grandfather owned a newspaper in Georgia, and then my grandfather worked for him as a sports writer, and then my dad was an editor, and then I was at a newspaper before newspapers failed. So I am sort of like coming from a family of ink stained wretches. And I've always been part of media in a sort of like, help me help you kind of way. Like, I want you to do the job you're supposed to do. Now, that has been a seriously uphill battle. And I found that I was ideologically an outlier, even in small. A small newsroom in rural North Carolina. Right. Because journalists are just very, very left. And there are so many of them that are very left. And I would argue they're more left now than they've ever been and more elite and elitist than they've ever been. And at least to all these blind spots, the idea that it started with Twitter.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

That you didn't. We didn't know before, like, friend, friend. I knew. I knew before 2007 or 9 or whenever it was.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

So that was one. I was not shocked. I actually prefer it to be crystal clear what their biases are, because I knew before. Stop hiding it from me. One of the reasons that we do what we do the way we do it is to be able to say, this is where I stand. You can judge. I will try to get to the truth, but you can judge my motivations how you wish. That's part of it. The COVID and Defund, the police and the, you know, woke stuff all slammed together in that very short mention. It really doesn't even begin to get to the crazy.

[Carol Markowitz]

It really doesn't.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

They endorsed. I mean, doesn't even begin.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

He didn't mention.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. Things like Kavanaugh, for example, which he was particularly involved in pushing, specifically him. And, you know, things like that would just get left off the list.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

And then there's Joe Biden, where it's like, oh, the slings and arrows. I appreciate. It is true that Thompson reported when others did not, as did the Wall Street Journal reporters who first wrote the formal story on this. But the rest of us were just like, hi, guys.

[Carol Markowitz]

We can see this right with our eyes.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

There are no awards forthcoming for that. I love the idea that the White House was like, you're really out on a limb here, buster. Like, am I? I can see you wandering through a field.

[Carol Markowitz]

I don't.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

I don't think I'm that on a limb. And then the idea that it's just a few of them Is right. The group think. Why does the group think exists that he. That he identifies at the beginning of Twitter? It's because they all think the same thing.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. And I think that they were surprised to find that that's identified as groupthink or that that's even leftism to them. That's just normal. And what do you mean? We're not leftists. We're just mainstream journalists who all think the same way. Why is that weird to you?

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

It's just neutral.

[Carol Markowitz]

Good.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Right. Like all the things we think, but all the things we think became defund the police and stay in your home for two years and toddlers should wear masks and schools should be closed and you should never say any of the words we say. You can't say Nina Jankowicz should be in charge of all of it and Biden is great for another four years. I mean, come on, how can they be surprised? They really don't trust them.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. They can't be. And I don't know if there's a way back from it. You know, we'll see what happens. Maybe there's enough resistors to make the failing mainstream media relevant again, but it's hard to see how that's going to happen.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Yeah. As I always say, this country is desperate for a reliable narrator and the media absolutely refuses to be one.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

And for that reason, they have lost tons of power. And I think actually the losing of their power and the dispersal of viewpoints. Yes. Makes it hard sometimes to figure out what information you're getting and how and what is real and what is not. But also means that they can't create fake narratives the way that they used to.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right. We're going to tell you the truth on this show whether or not you like it. So stay tuned, enjoy. Yeah. Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Mary Kathryn Hume]

If there was a summer camp for.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Critical thinking, we'd be the chief counselors.

[Cindy Crawford]

Those jelly heads in Jesus June would.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Be intellectual warriors by August. Be a lot of fun too. Some Bill and Ted's excellent adventure references.

[Mary Kathryn Hume]

Thrown in this podcast like a daily dose of that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Minus the campfires, archery and pranking the girls. The Bonafide Boot Camp for critical Thinking. You can get in on it for.

[Announcer]

Free at the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You get your podcast. Just search our names. Clay and Buck Listen and subscribe.