Normally Podcast: Parenting, Protests & Police Accountability in the Aftermath of the Minneapolis Border Patrol Shooting

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show: Normally Podcast

Episode: Parenting, Protests & Police Accountability in the Aftermath of the Minneapolis Border Patrol Shooting
Date: January 27, 2026
Hosts: Mary Katharine Ham & Carol Markowitz (substitutes for Clay & Buck)

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Episode Overview

This episode of “Normally” (a recurring feature on The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show) dives into the recent turmoil surrounding the Minneapolis border patrol shooting of protester Alex Pretty, the eruption of protests and riots in Minnesota, and the broader implications for federal and local police accountability. Mary Katharine Ham and Carol Markowitz dissect the chaos with sharp commentary, blend in parenting anecdotes, and tackle the difficulties of societal division and “protest culture.” A key theme: the dangers of blurring lines between protest and riots, inconsistent application of law enforcement, and the societal confusion bred by political gamesmanship on both sides.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parenting Interlude & Tone Setting

• The show opens with a humorous parenting story highlighting the quirks of raising boys vs. girls, setting a relatable and light tone before diving into weightier issues.
• Quote:
  • Mary Katharine Ham (MKH):
    “I walked in and my little boy ran all the way down the stairs to cling to my leg... my 4-year-old daughter jumped off the couch... and ran toward her father.”
    [02:45]

2. The Minneapolis Border Patrol Shooting & Fallout

• Incident Recap:
  The hosts discuss the death of Alex Pretty, a nurse who was involved in a protest (some describe as a scuffle with police) and concealed carrying a firearm.

  • MKH raises the point that "concealed carry at a protest is your right, but engaging physically with police while armed puts you—and everyone—in real risk."
    [04:55]
  • Speculation about accidental discharge during Pretty being disarmed; the confusion around the sequence of violence and lack of clarity due to ongoing investigation.
  • Protests escalated dramatically:
    • Rioters broke windows at federal buildings, attacked hotel lobbies thought to house ICE agents, and vandalized vehicles.
      [05:51]

• Failure of Local Leadership:

  • Carol Markowitz (CM): "I continue to lay the blame for this at the feet of elected officials in Minnesota who refuse to work with the federal government because it gets them the press that they are opposing Trump. To me, this is a real travesty."
    [06:51]

• Patterns of Violence:

  • A disproportionate number of violent ICE encounters are concentrated in just 9 counties.
    • “Violent confrontation in these nine counties were 590 times more likely than any of these other three 134 counties.”
      [07:49]
  • The term “protest” is questioned:
    • MKH: “I can’t call them protesters. These aren’t protests, these are riots...”
      [08:00]

3. Double Standards and Media/Political Framing

• Hosts dissect how left-leaning activists push the boundaries of protest, emboldened by legislators who tacitly encourage them.
  • MKH: “There’s this naive idea that you’re going to push every line in every encounter way past protesting into violence, into physical confrontations with cops, and that will never go badly for you.”
    [08:51]
• Critique of both right and left’s responses:
  • "If conservatives were using these exact tactics ... would you think that was okay? The obvious answer is no."
    [08:28]

4. Federal Response and Calls for De-escalation

• Criticism of Trump administration and Department of Homeland Security messaging ("calling her [Renee Goode] a domestic terrorist… That’s not how you talk about a fatal encounter.")
  • MKH: "Let’s not slam the person … talk about a responsible investigation we’re doing."
    [10:07]
• Internal DHS factions (the "Kristi Noem/Bovino crew" vs. "Homan crew"), with Tom Homan lauded for advocating facts-first, sober communication.
  • Homan's approach: “A serious thing happened and there is an investigation and we come to conclusions after all those facts are found.”
    [12:21]

5. Political Manoeuvring in Minnesota

• Reports of Governor Walz’s call with Trump, seeking to reduce the number of federal agents and promise of more orderly, independent state investigations.

  • Critique of Walz’s “misleading” messaging regarding ICE detainers, as the real sanctuary standoff concerns city and county jails, not state prisons.
    [14:32]

• Wider Political Implications:
  MKH warns of mishandling enforcement leading to a potential backlash or “albatross” around Trump’s signature issue:

  • “There is a danger of turning this into an albatross and to turning people against the idea of enforcement with sloppy work.”
    [14:32]

6. Law Enforcement, Protest Culture, and Societal Division

• The hosts emphasize the need for both accountability and competent, proportional law enforcement.
  • MKH: “If you reward bad behavior—if the mob says you may not be in this city and then you say, okay, we’re not going to be in that city, that goes really badly.”
    [16:02]
  • “We underpoliced, thereby creating the conditions in which people think that they can do this, set up autonomous zones, do January 6th and break down a bunch of barriers, and no one will do anything to them.”
    [16:46]
• CM: "The left just does not get punished for stuff like this. The media covers up for them..."
  [17:52]
• On Minneapolis police: “You create less of a police force... They can’t do the job. They don’t feel like they’re backed up. And then you get this sort of cycle of chaos.” [34:17]

Memorable Moment: The Lone Federal Officer Under Siege

• A vivid recounting (and audio) of a single federal officer defending a hotel against rioters, with press chaos and lack of local police support.
  • Officer: “Please give me some room.” (amid questioning and crowding by press)
    [20:50]
  • MKH defends the officer’s right to hold a line: “If you are on the left, you do not believe that you have to honor any line for cops. And at some point, the society has to say no. They can hold a line.”
    [21:33]

7. Police Accountability, Bodycams, and “Mask” Issues

• Suggestion: Equipping officers with more bodycams (less so about masks) as a tool for both accountability and exoneration.
  • “Body cams have been good for cops ... the audio ends up exonerating a lot of cops.”
    [23:10]

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Broader Societal Trends & “Insane” Abolitionism

8. Discussing The Nation’s “Why I Didn’t Report My Rape” Essay

• A critique of radical abolitionist thinking. The hosts read from and respond to a story in The Nation where the author refuses to report a gang rape out of opposition to police/prisons.
  • CM: “She has no idea what these people did after they left her. They could have raped dozens of women because she didn’t report it... I don’t think you get the option of saying I don’t want police to exist when you live in a society.”
    [27:56]
  • MKH: “This piece reads like shockingly deranged ... [it] does not allow you to go anywhere beyond your own ego … Unless you’re a toddler and you don’t think about these things.”
    [28:33]
• Point: This “infantile,” ultra-individualistic reasoning, the hosts argue, underpins protest culture’s blindness to social consequences.

9. Corporate and Cultural Shifts in Response to Riots/Protests

• MKH points to a neutral response letter from 60 Minnesota CEOs, noting a “vibe shift” away from 2020-style instant political posturing toward calls for order and peace.
  [31:56]

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Notable Quotes

• On protest violence double standards:
  “We have really collapsed the categories. As long as you’re on the left, you could do whatever you want.”
  — MKH [08:50]

• On responsibility:
  “You don’t get to create mobs and then say federal law enforcement can’t operate here because we created mobs.”
  — MKH [33:52]

• On increasing police accountability:
  “Body cams have been good for cops. … the audio ends up exonerating a lot of cops and making things much more clear.”
  — MKH [23:10]

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Lighter Segment: Slate’s “Propaganda Pregnancies” and Family Life

10. Media Insanity Over Conservative Pregnancy Announcements

• The hosts ridicule a Slate article speculating that Usha Vance’s (wife of JD Vance) pregnancy is a “propaganda” response to manufactured divorce rumors and a symbol of “regressive” politics.
  • MKH mocks the “who would have four kids?” line as emblematic of media insularity.
  • CM: “They made up this whole story in their heads ... and now they’re surprised that their ridiculous, absurd, stupid fantasy didn’t work out.” [41:13]

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Critical Timestamps

• [02:45] – Parenting story about kids’ reactions to mom vs. dad
• [04:16] – Breakdown of Alex Pretty’s shooting, protest escalation, and concealed carry issues
• [07:49] – Discussion of violence concentrated in just nine counties
• [10:07] – Critique of federal messaging on border protests
• [14:32] – Walz, Trump, ICE detainers, and political jockeying
• [16:02] – Analogies to parenting and negotiation with “mobs”
• [20:50] – Audio moment with lone federal officer under hotel attack
• [23:10] – Advocacy for bodycams as accountability tools
• [27:56] – The Nation rape essay: radical abolition critique
• [31:56] – “Vibe shift” in how corporate America reacts to social unrest
• [37:47] – The absurd coverage of Usha Vance’s pregnancy

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Key Takeaways

• The episode fiercely critiques local leadership’s handling of protests and violence in Minneapolis, calling out both left and right for missteps.
• The hosts argue that normal protest has given way to organized anti-ICE riots—and blame weak responses and political posturing for making things dangerous.
• Federal enforcement is framed as both necessary and fraught, with calls for more seriousness and less performative rhetoric from officials.
• The societal divide is reflected in both hard policy (police accountability, federalism) and cultural pathologies (infantilized protest/abolitionism, media’s obsession with conservative family life).
• Consistent, competent enforcement and clearer boundaries between protest and violence are essential, the hosts argue, to restoring order and rebuilding societal trust.

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For anyone who missed the show:
This episode delivers an incisive, sometimes exasperated look at the interlocking crises of protest, policing, and political leadership, balancing personal anecdotes, policy critique, and commentary on the cultural moment—all with the acerbic, “normalist” tone listeners have come to expect.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey guys.

[A]

We are back on normally the show with normalist for when the news gets weird.

[C]

I am Mary Krapen here and I'm Carol Markowitz. Kind of an eventful weekend, Mary Katherine.

[A]

Yes. And not just the snowstorm which I by the way was stuck in as we predicted last week. Not surprising. But I did make it back. And I do want to tell you the difference between being a boy mom and a girl mom since I now have a boy. I walked in and my little boy ran all the way down the stairs to cling to my leg when I walked in. And my 4 year old daughter jumped off the couch and ran toward me and then pushed me aside dramatically to run to her father. And I was like, your dad was gone for 90 minutes picking me up. I've been gone for three days.

[C]

Yeah, this tracks. It doesn't change as they get older either. I have a teenage daughter and a preteen. Yeah, the, the preteen boy is super still into me, as is my 10 year old boy. The, the girl, like I, I was touching her today, she was like inching away.

[A]

I just love that she's like dramatically pushed me aside.

[C]

He's back. He's back from the long drive.

[A]

Yeah, he's back from that trip to Dulles. Yeah. Anyway, a moment of levity before we get into the.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know. I tried to take the weekend off from it just because I saw how bad shit it was becoming and I was like, I'm gonna have to get back into it on Monday, so may as well enjoy this time off. But yeah, Minnesota not looking good, not getting better, a lot going on.

[A]

All right, so this weekend we had the. Yet another. This was a border patrol involved shooting of a guy who was protesting. Slash standing in the road directing traffic. Slash getting in a tussle with cops. Alex Pretty was his name, a nurse as his day job and he was killed at the scene. So we have now two fatalities of American citizens in these scuffles. First of all, same as with Renee. Good. No one wants it to end this way.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And I suspect that in this case. So he was concealed carrying, which is his perfect right to do at a protest. Once you are confronting cops and you have a gun in your waistband, you have put yourself in a, a very risky situation. And generally when you learn concealed carry, you learn that you would announce and announce and very hands in the air to say, hey officers, I want to inform you that this is going on. Yep. That didn't happen. This fight started again. There's all the whistling, there's all the people crowding around. As you've seen in each of these sort of civilian run operations against ICE enforcement.

[C]

This.

[A]

And this happened to be border patrol. And I suspect that maybe there was an accidental discharge at some point as this man was being disarmed.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And then it sets off this chain reaction where he ends up dead.

[C]

Yeah. It's clearly not as obvious as the Renee Goode one where she hit the officer with her car. I think that one was just much more clear than what happened here. They're still figuring out the facts and the details on the ground. But of course, all these bad elements are taking advantage of the confusion and spreading just insanity. Protesters are breaking windows and doors at federal buildings. They're throwing rocks. They destroyed the lobby of a hotel, the home, two suites, because they heard that ICE agents are staying there. And they also vandalized every single car in the parking lot, hoping that some of them belonged to ICE agents. It's a devastating thing that two Americans have been killed in this way. I continue to lay the blame for this at the feet of elected officials in Minnesota who refuse to work with the federal government because it gets them the press that they are opposing Trump. To me, this is a real travesty, and that's where the responsibility lies.

[A]

Yeah. I think, as I said, when, after Renee Goode's shooting, I hoped that when Jacob Fry went on Fox and Friends, that there was an attempt maybe for a climb down position. And as you note, Carol, the climb down position would simply be, we will honor ICE detainers. And the administration could say, great, we'll get our guys out of there and lessen our forces for a little while to, to allow that to happen and let's operate in good faith. Someone was noting on X that the vast, vast majority, as in 70% of any conflicts with ICE, come from a handful. I think nine.

[C]

Nine counties. It's Kevin Bass is the one who put put this together. Violent confrontation in these nine counties were 590 times more likely than any of these other three. 134 counties. So 600 times almost more likely for violence in these few counties where these radical. I don't even. I can't call them protesters. These aren't protests, these are riots that they're trying to foment here.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, well, I, I think a good question for liberals, and there's a couple things going on here, but I think a good question for liberals would be if conservatives were using these exact tactics.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For something they Believed in.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Would you think that that was okay? And the obvious answer is no. The right does not have a protest slash insurgency culture because as you said, it's not all pro, it's not all protests. I want them to be able to protest vigorously.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

But we have really collapsed the categories. As long as you're on the left.

[C]

You could do whatever you want.

[A]

There's this sort of naive idea that you're going to push every line in every encounter as far as you possibly way past protesting into violence, into physical confrontations with cops and that that will never go badly for you. I do not think that that is a realistic expectation. And when you get a high percentage of these encounters and the local officials want you to be having these encounters.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Going to raise the risk significantly for everybody involved.

[C]

It. Exactly.

[A]

So I hope there was an attempt at a climb down. It looks like now there actually is. There might called Donald Trump, which I feel like is a sign that perhaps they'd like to go about this in a more orderly fashion. Here. Here's the other thing though. The administration did not do its job well in talking about this incident. And honestly I think we said that after Good as well, where they were calling her a domestic terrorist. And it's like, guys, there is a. This is a serious issue. There is a person who is deceased. Let's not slam the person.

[C]

Right. An American. Yeah.

[A]

And talk about a responsible investigation we're doing. And that investigation may indeed clear officers, but you need to be serious about it. And in this case, I think Kristi Noem was even more out of line this time. The department, Homeland Security Secretary, in the way that she talked about it, just coming to all sorts of conclusions that she could know nothing about and that the video did not show saying that this person had come to this protest or this action with the desire to take out as many cops as possible. And it's like no right. And then by the way, because you're framing it that way, you are undermining Second Amendment rights. Because he is actually well within his rights if he has a concealed carry to have that even in a protest situation.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

To suggest that that alone means he is intending to do harm to officers is not something that Second Amendment people want to get into.

[C]

Right? Absolutely. I, I think that that's. That was the recoil I saw online after her comments. It was just. What are you saying? Like, do you realize that any. Anybody on, quote, your side would also be armed in these kinds of situation? Yeah, I thought it was irresponsible and stupid. Definitely not the path that we want to see the right go down. You know what I was thinking when she said that he had gone there to harm ICE agents? My first thought, and I had had this thought during the Biden administration, too, but it was very like, I hope you know what you're talking about. Because I was like, I hope that she is sharing information that she has that we don't have. And it doesn't look like that's the case. Which.

[A]

No. And it. And it looks like there is a split in the Department of Homeland Security about how this is being done, with one side being the Kristi Gnome Bovino, who's the border patrol guy with the giant duster. The Christy Gnome Bovino crew versus a Homan crew. Now, you'll remember after Renee Goode's shooting that Tom Homan was the adult in the room.

[C]

He's fantastic, and he really is.

[A]

Yeah. He just plain and simple, was like, a serious thing happened and there is an investigation and we come to conclusions after all those facts are found.

[C]

Right, Right. And that should be the line all the time that. That brings down the temperature. That's. That makes people say, my government is taking this seriously.

[A]

And so now the Hohman camp is being put in charge of Minnesota instead of the Nome Bovina camp, according to Trump Truth Social's and Kristi Noem's tweets today.

[C]

Right. So Governor Walsh apparently had what he's calling a productive call with President Trump. They agreed he would talk to his Department of Homeland Security. That's Trump would talk his Department of Homeland Security about ensuring the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is able to conduct an independent investigation, as would ordinarily be the case. The president also agreed to look into reducing the number of federal agents in Minnesota. The governor. This is from a news piece about this. The governor reminded President Trump that the Minnesota Department of Correction already honors federal detainers by notifying ICE when a person committed to its custody isn't a U.S. citizen. Okay. Bill Melujian, who. You know, I think it's important in times like these to follow and read serious people. So I consider Bill Malujian one of those people, and he says he writes very misleading from walls. Yes. His prison honors ICE detainers by transferring, quote, convicted criminal aliens after they serve their sentence. But his city and county jails do not. ICE wants criminal aliens arrested for crimes handed to them instead of being released to the streets. Even California prisons honor ICE detainers. The sanctuary fights are over. City and county jails so Waltz is saying something that was already in place and Bill says that this fight is actually over city and county jails, where you go when you're being held before you're tried for something. So the, the fact that Walls is trying, this is not a great sign for peace on the ground.

[A]

I think that Trump can sense that this signature issue of his, which was a great boon to him in polling, is taking a turn. I, I think again, they would have done in themselves a lot of favors to switch out the way they were doing things and putting a homan in charge a couple of weeks ago. Trump can sense this. I think there is a danger of turning this into an albatross and to turning people against the idea of enforcement with sloppy work sometimes with things that could be done better. And if you don't deal with that swiftly, I think it will, it will take a toll. And I think Trump knows that.

[C]

Yeah. Even aside from the political part, Trump is a big softie. Seeing footage of an American killed on the streets of Minneapolis, I just think, I think that kind of thing affects him. He is, he really does get into where something tragic like that really you could see affects him. He's not this cold hearted monster that people portray him to be. I could see him seeing that video and look, he, he, even his commentary has been different than with Renee Goode. I think that he, he saw this as something else.

[A]

The tricky part of this is that you must enforce federal law.

[C]

You have to. Absolutely have to. Right.

[A]

Once you as you and I know, as if we can use our parenting experience for this.

[C]

You don't negotiate with terrorists.

[A]

No. If you're rewarding, if you reward bad behavior, if the mob says you may not be in this city and then you say, okay, we're not going to be in that city, that goes really badly. And it's an interesting thing that some people I really respect who are center left, very reasonable people are saying like, well look, there was all these riots in 2020 and then January 6th and only one person was killed. Ashley Babbitt.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Now I happen to think that that was a justifiable incident where she was, a mob was with her and she was posing a danger and there's one officer there. Right. But it's interesting to me that they think that that's the proper posture of policing that summer 2020. Hands off, let everyone burn down the cities.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I don't think so is the right level of policing. I would say that what happened is that we under policed thereby creating the conditions in which people think that they can do this, set up autonomous zones, do January 6th and break down a bunch of barriers and no one will do anything to them. Burn down like government buildings and no one will do anything to them. And now in Minneapolis that you can just run an entire city's worth of anti ice full on semi insurgent operations and that will be fine. And that it's so incredibly dangerous. And the right simply doesn't have the same type of culture. And I'm going to say this, I think there were real rights violations in the ways that nonviolent J6 people were treated in not being let go before trial.

[C]

Right.

[A]

In the ways they were overcharged and over sentenced. I think dragnetting phones, there was a lot of issues there. And you know what? It also was a deterrent forever. The right to try anything like that again. And there is no corrective to the left.

[C]

That's exactly it. The left does just does not get punished for stuff like this. The media covers up for them. They're, you know, very lenient. Das cover up for them and nothing happens. And I, I'm not a national divorce person, but if Minneapolis is just allowed to go on without any federal presence, without enforcing federal law, I don't know how we stay a country. I don't know how we remain, you know, the same people. It's very, very difficult to picture us living together. After a federal investigation, a federal presence in Minnesota is forced to leave and they don't have to follow federal law. Like it becomes like why don't, why do we have to follow federal law? I don't want to pay taxes. Why do I have to do that? I can. Brent Scher from Daily Wire tweeted this very succinctly. He said withdrawing at any level from Minneapolis and sending the message that you can chase off the feds if you set up an intricate interference campaign would be by far the dumbest thing to do.

[A]

Yeah. And Walz, by the way, before calling Trump, potentially inflamed once again by bringing in the National Guard. Now do I think National Guard is going to turn on ice? No, I don't. What they did end up doing was standing around the federal installation and handing out donuts.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

To some protesters, but also some people who are involved in other things that are not protest. And then later that night when there's this attack on a hotel and people are tearing down the facade of this hotel, one federal office officer is left defending that place with no help from local pd because unfortunately the people doing this crime Walls and Fry, I think, are doing it for a righteous reason. And they are their constituents. And they're like, looks good to us. Like, I. I am. It blows my mind.

[C]

Yeah. We actually have a clip of that lone officer guarding the hotel. I think we should play it. It's a little hard to understand, but picture one guy defending a hotel all by himself. Is everyone pressed?

[B]

We're all members of the press.

[A]

We're all pressed here. Okay. This officer appears to be doing something out.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Are you okay?

[C]

I'm fine. Are you okay? I'm fine. Where's the local police? P. That's my question for the press.

[A]

Okay. Where is the local to do?

[C]

What's your message to the local PD Sir? No.

[A]

Okay, well, the mayor. Very chaotic, sir.

[B]

While you're giving messages, what would your message to the protesters that want you out be?

[C]

As long as you're getting. Please.

[D]

Please give me some room.

[C]

So he appears to be bleeding, which is why they ask in the beginning, are you all right?

[A]

Well, and he had been involved in this altercation with other people. The press start, like, closing in on in on him and asking questions. I've seen people tweet, oh, he's. He's unfairly threatening the press. No, he's not. He was inundated by people. He is one officer, and now a bunch of people he doesn't know are closing in on him again. And he has every right to go. Get away from me. And this is the thing that bothers me. If you are on the left, you do not believe that you have to honor any line for cops. And at some point, the society has to say no. They can hold a line.

[C]

We give them the responsibility and we give them the power to draw that line. And again, how do we live in a society together if one part of society just doesn't think it applies to them?

[A]

Well, and I do think that Homan's approach is probably more targeted, is probably less showy. Will probably. I mean, here's the other thing, because this is what I talked to some conservatives this weekend and said we should all demand really competent operations.

[C]

Of course. Right?

[A]

Yeah, very. To get as many of the people who really need to be gotten as possible. Right. And I think that Homan is better qualified for that. And I think that it could come to a place that would be a little bit less hot in Minneapolis while still doing the job. So I'm glad of that. This is also leading to another possible government shutdown because the house had passed. Oh, glory be. Regular order 12 bills like all the funding was going over to the Senate properly, but one of them is dhs. And now the Democrats are saying, well, we're not going to vote for that. Also, ICE is already funded. It's not even that wouldn't even do anything.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're going to walk themselves into a little bit of a situation here again, and who knows how that will turn out. But I do think, and I know that some in our audience will and some in the audience when I was speaking this weekend don't agree with me. But I do think body cams and fewer masks is probably helpful for these operations. Body cams, especially body cams for sure.

[C]

The masks, I don't know.

[A]

But body cams have been good for cops. They especially the audio ends up. It's not always the video that you can see. Exactly. But the audio ends up exonerating a lot of cops and making things much more clear. And I think would give citizens, even the ones who are rabble rousers, more assurances that these guys are being held accountable. I think that's something worth doing.

[C]

Well, we'll take a short break and be right back with some more insanity, but it won't be quite as dark as this.

[B]

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Built with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] iheart that's greenlight.com iheart we are back on normally where maybe I spoke too soon about it being a lighter topic. The Nation over the weekend had a very sensational piece called why I Didn't Report My Rape and it is a story of a woman being gang raped by six men in a Las Vegas hotel room. And the fact that she doesn't believe in reporting it to police is the story that she tells. Here she writes, the simple answer to the question of why I never reported the rape is that I believe in the abolition of police in prisons. The less simple, less articulate answer is that to pursue prosecuting and potentially incarcerating other people is inconceivable to me, even when they have hurt me more than I could have ever believed possible. Because of this, I can only vocalize what I want in negative and inherently impossible terms. That's all I want, is that all I want is for it to have never happened. Ma'.

[A]

Am.

[C]

The thing is, and it goes again back to the point of how do we live in society with these people? She has no idea what these people did after they left her. They could have raped dozens of women because she didn't report it. They could have done far worse acts because they got away with this one. I don't think you get the option of saying I don't want police to exist. When you live in a society, even the safest societies in the world, the ones who have minimal crime, they have police and they have laws. So the more you accept, the more you'll get. And that's what this woman reads like to me.

[A]

I mean, I'm terribly sorry this happened and sorry for her because this piece reads like shockingly deranged. I mean, it is an insane thing. And it's more than that. It is, and reminds me some of the agitation of these insurgent types who do like protest culture for their lives is this infantile thinking that does not.

[C]

Such infantile thinking.

[A]

It does not allow you to go anywhere beyond your own ego. Basically all she's saying is, I am enlightened, so I'm not going to think past this or what it might do to the rest of society or what it means to any other women who, for these guys who walked like, there are second order consequences for everything. Unless you're a toddler and you don't think about these things. And this feels very.

[C]

She seems like a toddler incapable of.

[A]

Thinking beyond a child's vision of this. She says in her quote, also, she actually concedes, I can only conceive of it in childish terms. How silly and strange it would be to have a group of people incarcerated at my expense when doing so would do nothing to fix the damage they have already so thoroughly done. But what about the damage to other people?

[C]

Right? Right. What about being punished for what they have done? Like that's not a new concept. And it's crazy that they think that they're too enlightened for this. And the result is situations like this where people will get hurt because you think you're too good for policing, you think you're too good for prisons to exist. I don't know. I have to say, I have not been this despondent in the last year. I left this weekend being like, they're just doing this again where they're rioting in the streets and demanding to get their way and we may give in and give it to them just to get them to shut the hell up.

[A]

Well, and I will say for all of us, yeah, there's a couple. There's a couple counterpoints to that, which is that, yes, I do think. I mean, this is obviously an extreme case, but when people see this, like in 2020, you would have had to give this much more of a hearing. Right. Well, maybe not reporting your rape is great. You know, we don't really have to do that anymore. And there are a lot of people on the ICE stuff who. And I'm one of them who will say, look, I will say I want these things improved and I want our. The administration officials to act like grown ups when they're not acting like grown ups and to take this seriously.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I will not allow for the left's victims to be the only victims because I care about all of them. Right. Like, I care that this guy died. I care that Renee Goode died, and I care that a guy in Fairfax county was murdered by a guy they let out for not honoring a ICE detainer the other day. I care about Lincoln Riley. And so lefties are very good at making sure the culture only cares about one type of victim at one time. And. And I think a lot of people are not sort of succumbing to that part of the bullying anymore, even though they acknowledge.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Some of this. Bet. Can I point out, Sorry, we're going a little bit off topic, but I've mentioned. That's okay.

[C]

We could just. All one topic, you know.

[A]

Yeah, I meant to mention it earlier. The Minnesota Chamber of Commerce released a letter on behalf of 60 CEOs in the area, some big corporations, some small. And it was a very neutral statement. Our friend Matt Whitlock sent it to me and he notes this is a good indication of how things have shifted in response to these types of stories. Yeah. In 2020, this letter would have contained nomination for Trump and partisan CYA language. But these companies now understand that taking political positions, especially under short term astroturf pressure, is a long term loser. So they basically say, we want everything to chill out. We want people to be safe. We want people to come and work together. But it is a very different style of response, and I think a lot of people are responding differently than they used to.

[C]

That's a vibe Shift for sure. It just again, I got, you know, just felt so despondent about this happening, about this death and about where we're headed as a country that we can't seem to kind of get it right. And after being pretty optimistic for the last year, where I thought we were heading in a better direction. You know, you asked in the first segment whether what the left would do if it were the right rioting in a similar fashion. And yeah, but you know, what would they do to enforce immigration laws? They keep saying, not this way, not like this. Okay, but then what then what would, how would you deport illegal immigrants who came by the millions during the Biden administration and the American people elected Donald Trump to solve that problem? Like, what would they do? And the answer, of course, is like this woman who does not report her own gang rape. They wouldn't do anything. They don't want to solve that problem. And that's just deeply unfair and unreasonable. And I think Americans hopefully will understand that.

[A]

Yeah, no, I think you're right. That's my line in the sand is that you don't get to create mobs and then say federal law enforcement can't operate here because we created mobs. By the way, the Minnesota or the Minneapolis Police Department, such that it is, is much smaller than it used to be because of the incredibly demoralizing treatment they received at the hands of their city and state leaders in 2020.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

This is it. So that you create less of a police force. They can't do the job. They don't feel like they're backed up to do the job. And then you get this like sort of cycle of chaos and you get a bunch of liberals who truly in a way that the right does not coordinate and create confrontations that again make everyone's lives much more dangerous.

[C]

We're going to take a short break and come back with one more story. We're going to try to make this one lighter maybe.

[A]

Yes, we should.

[B]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers, growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500 then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures hi, I'm.

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[C]

We are back on normally where slate.com, yes, that website still exists, has a piece called well, that is one way for JD And Usha Vance to respond to the Erica Kirk divorce rumors. Guys.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah, that's the fourth child that they're talking about that Usha Vance is pregnant with the Vance's fourth baby and that this is potentially being done because of the rumors that Erica Kirk hugged JD Vance a little bit too much at an event. These people are so disgusting. It's. It's in so many different ways.

[A]

So one of the things I like about being a normal person and a center Right. Person is that I can have totally uncomplicated feelings about bringing babies into the world. Yeah. Like, I'm just like, awesome. That sounds great. I'm excited for you. No matter what your ideology, I'm excited for you. Right. So another. I noticed a Twitter account the other day that. That pointed out that I think Caroline Levitt, Stephen Miller's wife, and Usha are all pregnant at the same time. And it was like, kill horror. Like, so, so crazy. They're spawning, I think was the idea.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like. Yeah, it's just three married women are having babies. That's what. That's what we do, guys.

[C]

Somebody else said about them, by the way, that this is propaganda. This is like they're doing it for propaganda purposes.

[A]

Propaganda pregnancies. Yeah, sure.

[C]

I retweeted it. I wish, like, I wish they were coordinating pregnancies. Like, guys, right? We got to get the birth rate up. Like, let's. Let's all have babies. Yeah, right.

[A]

You know, the tone of this is just so gross. I'll give you a couple paragraphs. This pregnancy puts a spotlight on Usha, who so far in her tenure as second lady has seemed intent on keeping a low profile. News outlets were quick to note the historical nature of this bun in the oven, which should make Usha the first sitting second lady in modern history to bear a child in over 150 years per time. I confess feeling the tiniest twinge of sympathy for her about the timing of the announcement. January is early to announce a baby due in late July. Did she feel pushed to say something before people started to notice her body changing?

[C]

What a psycho.

[A]

It's not even early. I don't. I don't think it's that early. The reports from a few months ago of her not wearing her wedding ring could be viewed in a different light now, as she easily could have stopped wearing it because her fingers were swollen. Okay, but here's my favorite part.

[C]

Yeah, this is the part right here.

[A]

But that's all the poor Usha we should be indulging in, because it's important to remember that she is a willing participant in all of this. Well, God. God would hope. I would hope so. While it's tempting to wonder if anyone else in her law school class has put their career on hold to have in italics four kids who would have four kids.

[C]

Mary Catherine, who would do that? Who would do such a thing.

[A]

She chose to have all those kids and to leave her career to support her husband, to stay with that husband no matter how increasingly awful he seems, both as a force in society and as an individual partner to her. Usha is free to slap I had this before JD Went crazy stickers on her other kids. But if she could ever claim any kind of ignorance, that time is over.

[C]

It's one of those, I hope this person has people in her life who love her and will say, this is absolutely insane. You are a crazy person. You need to seek help. I. I don't think that any of these people do because otherwise they wouldn't be writing stuff like this. These are inside thoughts. These are thoughts you think and maybe laugh with your friend, not publish on a website. You absolute insane person.

[A]

I, for one, will be putting in italics for kids every time I talk about it.

[C]

Every time. That's right. They made up this whole story in their heads about Erica Kirk and JD Vance hugging too much and that JD And Usha were gonna get divorced. And now they're surprised that their ridiculous, absurd, stupid fantasy didn't work out. It's like they've created the fantasy and then are surprised that it wasn't.

[A]

So I saw somebody else. Rude. I can't remember who it was saying, oh, it never works to have a baby, to keep the marriage together. I think they're fine, guys. Yeah, I think they're fine. But you're right. This is a. This is sort of projected upon them. Yeah. And they have this bizarre idea of all conservative women that, like, we're all just a weird one because they're like, she should be a feminist, but she's not, so she must just be led by him in some way. And it's so infantilizing and it's so gross. And. No, I. I love. I love the idea that she's a willing participant in this. Well, yeah.

[C]

Yeah, that's how it works.

[A]

That's how it works. Oh, my gosh. She got married and had kids.

[C]

Thanks for joining us on Normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

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