Normally Podcast: Red City Rising: Is NYC Ready for Mayor Mamdani?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Episode: Normally Podcast: Red City Rising: Is NYC Ready for Mayor Mamdani?
Release Date: June 26, 2025
Host/Authors: Mary Catherine Ham & Carol Markowitz
Publisher: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction to the NYC Mayoral Race

In this episode of Normally, Mary Catherine Ham and Carol Markowitz delve into the recent developments in New York City's mayoral race, focusing on the Democratic primary that has significant implications for the city's future. The primary featured candidates with starkly contrasting visions, ultimately leading to a surprising outcome.

Notable Quote:
Carol Markowitz [02:46]: "New York City had a Democratic primary and, I would say a communist one. He's calling himself a democratic socialist."

Election Results and Voting Process

The primary concluded with Zoran Mamdani securing a commanding lead over Andrew Cuomo. The election utilized New York's new ranked-choice voting system, which has contributed to the complexity and delayed final results until July 1st.

Notable Quote:
Carol Markowitz [03:36]: "As of 10pm last night, 93% of the vote in Mamdani led Cuomo 44 to 36 in the first of this new process."

Notable Quote:
Mary Catherine Ham [04:21]: "Cuomo saw the writing on the wall and conceded in the Democratic primary last night."

Implications of Mamdani's Victory

Mary and Carol express deep concerns about Mamdani's policies, which they perceive as more authoritarian and socialist, potentially harming New York City. They critique his platform, particularly his stance on education and rent control, suggesting that his leadership could lead to increased segregation and diminished quality of public services.

Notable Quote:
Mary Catherine Ham [05:25]: "And I think if Mamdani becomes actual mayor, it's really bad for the city."

Notable Quote:
Carol Markowitz [05:25]: "He wants to get rid of gifted education in elementary and middle schools in New York."

Immigration and National Security Concerns

Shifting focus to national issues, the hosts discuss recent ICE arrests of Iranian nationals with ties to Hezbollah and the implications for U.S. national security. They critique the previous administration's immigration policies, attributing increased vulnerabilities to the Biden administration's "fraudulent parole programs."

Notable Quote:
Carol Markowitz [19:08]: "ICE arrested 11 Iranian nationals illegally in the US including an individual with admitted ties to Hezbollah and a former Iranian army sniper."

Notable Quote:
Mary Catherine Ham [20:02]: "They could have sleeper cells. What happened over the last four years that allowed people to flow over the border in millions unvetted..."

Supreme Court Decision on Deportation Policies

The hosts analyze a recent Supreme Court ruling that pauses the administration's efforts to deport immigrants to third-party countries. They express frustration over lower court judges ignoring the Supreme Court's directives, highlighting a growing disregard for judicial norms.

Notable Quote:
Carol Markowitz [24:06]: "Ilya says the legal term for that is bonkers."

Notable Quote:
Mary Catherine Ham [25:05]: "You can't. The dissent is not the ruling. The ruling is the ruling."

Societal Discussion: Modern Love Column on Men

Mary and Carol critique a recent "Modern Love" column from The New York Times, which laments the absence of men in the writer's dating life. They argue that societal narratives have marginalized men, making it emotionally unsafe for them to engage beyond select relationships, thereby contributing to their withdrawal from broader social interactions.

Notable Quote:
Carol Markowitz [30:09]: "The Modern Love column is actually my guilty pleasure. I don't watch any TV, but when I want to feel bad about the world, modern Love is what I go to."

Notable Quote:
Mary Catherine Ham [31:06]: "Men are told that they are bad and wrong and all the things they do and feel are bad and wrong. So why would they be engaged except with people who are receptive?"

Conclusion

Wrapping up the episode, Mary and Carol reiterate their concerns about the direction in which New York City is headed under Mamdani's potential leadership and emphasize the broader national implications of current immigration and societal policies. They advocate for a return to more balanced and inclusive approaches in both governance and social norms.

Notable Quote:
Carol Markowitz [34:26]: "Let the men be men again."

Notable Quote:
Mary Catherine Ham [34:30]: "Come back men. Yeah, they'll come to Florida, please."

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Key Takeaways

• NYC Mayoral Primary: Zoran Mamdani's victory over Andrew Cuomo raises concerns about the city's future under a potentially authoritarian leadership.
• Ranked-Choice Voting: New York's complex voting system delays final election results, highlighting challenges in electoral processes.
• Immigration and Security: Recent ICE arrests underline ongoing national security threats, exacerbated by prior administration policies.
• Judicial Norms: Lower court's disregard for Supreme Court rulings on deportation policies signals a troubling trend in judicial adherence.
• Societal Shifts: The marginalization of men in societal narratives contributes to their disengagement from broader social interactions.

Final Thoughts

Mary Catherine Ham and Carol Markowitz provide a critical analysis of current political and social issues affecting New York City and the nation. Their discussions underscore the importance of informed and balanced leadership, robust immigration policies, and societal inclusivity to foster a healthier, more secure community.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and viewpoints expressed by the hosts during the episode. It is intended for informational purposes and may not capture every detail of the original conversation.

Transcript

[Mary Catherine Ham]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ryan]

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[Carol Markowitz]

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[Mary Catherine Ham]

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[Ryan]

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[Mary Catherine Ham]

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[Ryan]

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[Carol Markowitz]

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[Mary Catherine Ham]

Hey guys. We are back on Normally the show with normalish takes for when the news gets weird. And it's always weird. I'm Mary Catherine Ham.

[Carol Markowitz]

And I'm Carol Markowitz. Well, the weird story is that New York City had a Democratic primary and, and a. I would say a communist one. He's calling himself a democratic socialist. But anyone who wants government run grocery stores and, you know, to be able to enforce what people can charge for rent, that seems more communist to me.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

I agree.

[Carol Markowitz]

What do you think, Mary Katherine?

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Oh, man. Look, this is the primary, which generally just decides the mayor's race in New York because it's so heavily Democratic. He ran against Andrew Cuomo, who was the other guy at the head of the pack. And your fave, what's his name?

[Carol Markowitz]

Brad Lander. Yes.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Brad Lander.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yes.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

None of these people deserve to win.

[Carol Markowitz]

No, no. They're all uniquely terrible. But it does seem like Zoran Mamandi, who won the primary, is the worst of the bunch. And yet at the top of the pack, as of 10pm last night, 93% of the vote in Mamdani led Cuomo 44 to 36 in the first of this new process, this rank choice voting that New York has implemented since I've been gone. And what's interesting is that the full results won't be in until July 1st, because this is a really complicated system that they chose to have for some reason. But Cuomo saw the writing on the wall and conceded in the Democratic primary last night.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Yeah, it's humiliating for Cuomo. Whoever wins this, by the way, officially will go on to a general election where there will be a not very good GOP candidate and Eric Adams, the current mayor, running as an independent. So there is yet another hurdle. But Cuomo deserved to be humiliated. It was hurting my soul to have to say he's the lesser evil of these two. Right, but like corrupt bad guy versus socialist bad guy or communist bad guy. It's a tough one, guys. It's to the everlasting shame of the Democratic Party in New York City that has so many Democrats at its disposal that it can't do better than these two. But I think if Mamdani becomes actual mayor, it's really bad for the city. And I do not live in the city, but I love visiting the city. And I think the people of the city deserve better, just as I think the people of LA deserve better.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. There is the additional thing here that Cuomo has set himself up to run as a third party candidate as well. His third party party is called Fight and Deliver. He's going to have to be talked out of that by the same people who endorsed him. That is Bill Clinton, that is the New York Times editorial board. They're going to have to say, you need to step Aside. And it has to be an Adams vs Mamdani showdown with Curtis Lewa kind of playing the spoiler there. I'd also say that it's really tough to watch what's happening in New York as a former New Yorker, because I know that there are so many people who did not get a say in this yesterday who are not registered Democrats. And for all the every vote counts and everybody should be able to vote. And we're so pro democracy. The Democrats have a closed primary in New York, as do the Republicans, and they require registration far in advance. And you could only vote if you're in the Democratic Party. So there are a lot of people who didn't get a say last night who will get their say in November. The concern again is that Eric Adams and Curtis Lewa and possibly even Andrew Cuomo split the non Mamdani vote and that will be the real problem. I also just want to note, and I think, you know, we talked about this on previous episodes, Andrew Cuomo ran as if something was owed to him. He ran as if you are all so blessed to have me, Andrew Cuomo, come down from my Albany perch and get into your shenanigans down here in the city. He skipped several mayoral forums like as if he was, you know, a shoo in for this thing. He didn't work at winning. You know, I dislike Mamdani in so many different ways, but he put in the work and that's ultimately what campaigns are about.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

No, this is the Hillary Clinton model. Hey, I'm super unlikable and I have high name ID and I want this job. I'm entitled to this job.

[Carol Markowitz]

Entitled. Yes.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

You're lucky to vote for me. Do the thing little people. And it's not a good place.

[Carol Markowitz]

It doesn't really work. No. I don't know. I would advise candidates not to do that because people see that and they don't like it. The New York Times today, however, has despite calling Mamdani uniquely unsuited to running the city. In a recent editorial they called him a new political star who has emerged out of a fractured Democratic Party. I think nationally Democrats have to be hoping that he does not become their political star. He may work on a small level in a far left city like New York, but he nationally is going to be a drag on party hopes. So I think for people on the right, they should hope that he becomes the political star him and aoc, Right.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Well, he's certainly because he put in work. And I don't want to discount that because like it Was sort of a clever campaign. Now, the part that's not clever is just telling people you're going to give them free things that you can't give them because that's a very easy way to win. But he communicated well. His branding was cool. Like, this is the game, you know, like he played the game. His name ID will be huge now. His ability to raise money will be huge. Those things will make him huge within the Democratic Party, period, no matter what happens. I think you're right that he's a turnoff to most of the nation and a lot of New York, by the way, specifically segregated in its voting patterns by education and income. Highly educated, very much affluent voters were happy to take their luxury beliefs to the ballot and vote for Mamdani, whereas working class and middle class voters and voters of color in those classes were like, I think I'd like to go with the establishment jerk guy.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right, right.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Really split that way. I think it would be obviously bad for the city. One thing I want to note, bad for the kids in New York City because some of his education ideas are terrible. As Trace Woodgrains notes, nobody talked about it much, but he wants to get rid of gifted education in elementary and middle schools in New York. And he also has this in his eliminate the use of exclusionary admissions practices that create segregation by race, class disability, home language and academic ability. This includes the exclusionary use of school screens such as grades, test scores, auditions, performance and interviews, behavior, lateness and attendance. If you put that platform plank in front of Every normie, that's a 9010 issue against, like, people hate that, right?

[Carol Markowitz]

Well, both Bill de Blasio and my buddy Brad Lander were very much against these screens as well, but only after their own children had graduated from schools with these screens in place. It's, it's a very convenient little situation they have. At least Mamdani doesn't have kids. And I, I, I don't believe this affects him. But it's interesting because Mamdani won the over 100,000 earners by 13 points. You know, when I think about this, and especially about the schools, anything that he does, his voter base will be able to opt out of. They'll be able to send their kids to private school, they'll be able to move, they'll be able to figure out a way out, which is, you know, pretty terrible. For the under 50,000 who voted for Cuomo by 19 points, they won't be able to have these options. They are trying, they tried to vote themselves to something resembling sanity and again, I hate describing Andrew Cuomo as some kind of great hope. It's like, you know, he was a terrible governor and he's a terrible person and he probably would have been a passably okay mayor at best. I always kind of said that he hates New York and the city and I just didn't see him as a good mayor. But it was comparatively, when you're comparing to a legit communist who wanted to defund police who has all these terrible ideas, Cuomo becomes more appealing. I would also add, you know, there's this thing on the right today that's like, well, New York has all these foreign born people. And you know, this is the problem here. I just want people to understand that the foreign born people, the foreign born white people specifically voted for Cuomo. My South Brooklyn, my beloved South Brooklyn mostly voted for Andrew Cuomo. And I would say that a lot of them are not registered Democrats. So that is like even among Democrats in my part of Brooklyn, they are still more normal and further to the right.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

So if you're on the right, you don't want to fall into the same trap that Democrats, which is assuming immigrant equals liberal. Well, why would you assume that?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

We have done a lot of work actually certainly in the Trump era to appeal to people who are immigrant communities. And it has worked for him. So don't write them off. Yeah, there's also the part where he's like happily marched with the pro Palestinian, pro hamas crowds post October 7th. I think John Podhoritz called him the encampment candidate. And it is quite something, you would think. I never doubted that it was possible that New York City could have a Muslim mayor, but I would have thought that the Muslim mayor candidate would have been distancing himself from globalize the intifada.

[Carol Markowitz]

No, not that.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

But in fact, when asked about it, he was like, nah, it's just like a, it's a totally benign phrase. It's cool guys. We should be able to use it like wow. Yeah, wow.

[Carol Markowitz]

Insane.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

And by the way, I want to note on the point of whether Democrats are going to turn away or toward this new celebrity, Dan Pfeiffer of the Obama years, communications guy. He says what's happening in New York City is a blaringly loud message to those in dim establishment. Hi, that's you who still cling to old politics, recite focus group talking points and are too afraid to say what needs to be said. We have a lot to learn from Zoran Mandani and his campaign. And then Ro Khanna who is one of the more sensible members of this party on various issues, including free speech. Occasionally said Dan Pfeiffer gave me the best political advice anyone ever has. Obama won because he was prepared to lose. You have to stand for something. Zoran stood for his values and something new and he inspired many. So it sounds like flavor of the month might last a little while.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. And look, it's he is in pole position to be the next mayor. There obviously are, you know, some roadblocks in his way, including the current mayor, Eric Adams, but he is likely going to be the next New York City mayor. Our friend Justin Robert Young said he could see the soft focus New York Times Magazine cover story now still here. Why Adams can't quit on his city because they're going to realize they'd rather have Adams any day of the week. Still here.

[Ryan]

I love it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. We could picture it with Adams looking resolute in his blue suit. I would say. Also we have to talk about the fact that all the polls had Andrew Cuomo crushing until this last week where only one poll had Mamdani ahead. Polling in this race was an absolute disaster. They're at the top of my losers of the day list. The New York Times obviously, for their editorial and Clinton world. The Clintons don't have power in New York City anymore.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

What a wild thought that is. Wild things. They are a changing we're going to.

[Carol Markowitz]

Take a short break and come right back with normally.

[Ryan]

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Mary Catherine Ham]

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[Mary Catherine Ham]

Don't be silly.

[Ryan]

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[Carol Markowitz]

We like to do the in case you missed it, news that hasn't gotten a lot of attention. And because of the war with Iran, a lot of news has. Now.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

There's a lot going on, a lot.

[Carol Markowitz]

Of things that you may have missed. I think at the top of the list is that ICE arrested 11 Iranian nationals illegally in the US including an individual with admitted ties to Hezbollah and a former Iranian army sniper. This is reported by Griff Jenkins, national correspondent at Fox. I don't like this one bit, and I think that it's such an undercovered story and it makes me concerned because I just the fact that we don't know how big these kinds of threats are is why so many people were surprised that the US Was involved in striking Iranian bases. I think that they just didn't know that Iran has been at war with us for Some time. And this is exactly the kind of detail that proves that.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Yeah. And it's also the Obama bros are telling on themselves when they say, oh, no, you've now provoked Iran. Iran could retaliate in all these ways and they'll go after American civilians. They're horrible and unpredictable. It's like, okay, well, first of all, you are giving them billions in actual cash to fund all the horrible things you're saying could happen, which, by the way, have been happening for the entirety of my life.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

And then one of the things they highlight always is like, they could blow up a bus of Americans. They could have sleeper cells. Why might they have sleeper cells? What happened over the last four years that allowed people to flow over the border in millions unvetted, to put themselves in a position to be sleeper cells? What happened? I feel like it was the whole Biden administration. So don't give me this, like, scaremongering based on the intentionally irresponsible policy that Biden put in place.

[Carol Markowitz]

Exactly.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

And thank goodness Trump is there to look for these people and to make something happen.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, absolutely. Another quote. Trish McLaughlin, DHS assistant secretary, says Under Secretary Noem, DHS has been full throttle on identifying and arresting known or suspected terrorists and violent extremists that illegally entered this country, came in through Biden's fraudulent parole programs or otherwise. There were programs that permitted people like this to enter. And it's just. It is a very dangerous time, I think, for the country. I think because we don't know who came in in the last few years especially, and because of the huge influx, we're in a dangerous time. Iranians being caught is. I'm very happy to hear it. But how many other nationals of other countries who may wish us ill are in the country and how bad will that be for us? It's been a concern for a while. I think that we have to take it seriously. And I'm glad to see the DHS and ICE working together to do that.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

By the way, cue the Democrats to start the national campaign on behalf of justice for Iranian snipers, which is. That's gonna be their new Kilmar Albergo. Garcia, I do wanna bring this up because this is a definite. You missed it from last year. Yeah. You might not even remember this story, but in the same vein, two Jordanian nationals attempted to breach Quantico's Marine base in a van and were picked up. You know, but during the, you know, Biden administration, like, we couldn't be certain what happened to folks like that. But I just, it makes me happy that Trump is in charge now because his folks are in charge of actually having consequences for such things.

[Carol Markowitz]

That's right.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Which makes me feel better about the whole situation. Speaking of consequences, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the administration this week, pausing a district court order that had prevented the administration from deporting immigrants to third party countries. There's this whole dispute about when you can send somebody to a third party country. The concern was that immigrants might be in danger in some of these third party countries. And DHS several times issued instructions. This, by the way, speaks to, like, how much process there is involved in this. DHS twice issued instructions that were like, hey, here's how you figure out whether someone can be deported if there's a prospect that they would be tortured in this country. They did that in February. In March, they issue another one like, hey, here's the rules. If they affirmatively express fear that they will face torture, that there's many. There's stuff involved. Right. But the administration's like, hey, we're. We've issued guidance on this and now they're trying to stop us from doing anything, basically. Which is the story of most of the immigration litigation. Such that it is right.

[Carol Markowitz]

I think the SCOTUS decision was. So it was right in the mix. I believe it was issued on Monday when, you know, the Iran war was really hot at that. That was the. The craziest day, I believe. And what's extremely wild is a district court judge has already sidestepped that order. I saw Margo Cleveland from the Federalist highlight it. She said she posted Judge Brian E. Murphy literally sidestepping what SCOTUS said. I couldn't believe it. And I felt like I was misunderstanding something. So I went to my. Go to legal guru Ilya Shapiro. He writes that the judge claims SCOTUS order doesn't apply to him because the proper procedures weren't filed. Never seen anything like it. DOJ has already filed a response with the Supreme Court, and he says that it's. The district court judge cited Sotomayor's dissent for support of his view.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

My favorite part.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah. And Ilya says the legal term for that is bonkers.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Yeah. You can't. The dissent is not the ruling. The ruling is the ruling. In our system, we allow a dissent, and you can read Sotomayor's dissent. You can fangirl all you want about it, but it is not the court's order. And I tweeted like, oh, wait, ignoring the Supreme Court, about to get good again. Now we're ignoring the Supreme Court for the right reasons.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right?

[Mary Catherine Ham]

But yes, currently, as these folks appeal through those steps, the government should be able to do these third country removals.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, I just don't hear anything from the left about how concerned they are about the norms in this case. And I wonder why.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

It's the Bachelor standard. You have to be doing the violating of the norms for the right reasons. We're not a Bachelor fan ever. In the Bachelor, that's always the accusation is that whatever bachelor or Bachelorette isn't there for the right reasons. Please tell what would be the right reasons to be on the Bachelor or Bachelorette. But anyway, lefties say if you're violating the norms for the right reasons, which is hating Donald Trump and thwarting him, then that's okay.

[Carol Markowitz]

We'll be right back on normally Hi.

[Ryan]

I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results. And then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty confidence is beautiful. Learn [e-mail].

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Carol Markowitz]

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[Carol Markowitz]

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[Ryan]

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[Mary Catherine Ham]

Don't be silly.

[Ryan]

You don't be silly. People with The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases. Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot.

[Carol Markowitz]

No.

[Ryan]

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[Carol Markowitz]

The New York Times go back to that old chestnut. They have a column, the Modern Love column. The Modern Love column is actually my guilty pleasure. I don't watch any tv, but when I want to feel bad about the world, modern Love is what I go to. It frequently has just the worst kind of stories about we tried to open our relationship and then everything fell apart. And it's like nobody learns anything.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

You think?

[Carol Markowitz]

Right? Well, today or this week, they have a. A pretty good one by somebody named Rachel Drucker who writes about how she doesn't see men out anymore. She doesn't see them out on dates. She feels like they have disappeared from society. They're just not in the mix for her. And I feel like that's probably true. The column is called Men, where have you gone? Please come back. Yeah, we're gonna miss them when they're gone. And I think that you and I have been saying that for a long. Men were made to feel like they were the problem in so many different ways, and they have pushed back. I think the men. A lot of men have married, you know, women who aren't writing for the New York Times. And I think that they're home with their wives.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

That's part of it, yes.

[Carol Markowitz]

But the men who kind of just have had enough of being treated badly and being called monsters and being. And all of that probably have retreated from society. And it is sad and unfortunate.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Yeah, it's interesting that she misses them. What's the thing that's missing that implies that they bring something to the table.

[Carol Markowitz]

They really do.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

That implies that they're valuable. Right. And that's been the thing that they haven't heard for a decade, 15 years, certainly, from New York Times writers.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

And I think, if I may use the therapy language of the left, they have not made it feel emotionally safe for men to engage in society. Men are told that they are bad and wrong and all the things they do and feel are bad and wrong. And so why would they be engaged except with people, their wives or whoever they've matched with who they feel might be receptive to the fact that they are men. Yep.

[Carol Markowitz]

They're safe space. She makes an interesting point. She says, I remember when part of heterosexual male culture involved showing up with a woman to signal something. Status, success, desirability. Women were once signifiers of value, even to other men. It wasn't always healthy, but it meant that men had to show up and put in some effort. That dynamic has quietly collapsed. We have moved into an era where many men no longer seek women to impress other men or to connect across difference. They perform elsewhere alone. They filtered us out. That's the thing. We all said this was going to be bad for women. But the idea that, like, men used to treat women as signifiers of success, women, like people who write for the New York Times, hated that, wanted that to stop and go away. Obviously, women were a prize. And that idea became something that you weren't allowed to believe anymore. Women weren't allowed to be prizes. And so men were like, fine, we'll just. We won't. We won't treat you like the prizes that we used to treat you.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Well. And it ignored the fact that there was an exchange there, that you are a prize and you're treated like a prize, that there might be something for women to gain even in that construction of it.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Or that that idea goes along with other healthy impulses. Right. My woman is a prize actually can lead to quite good things.

[Carol Markowitz]

Right. I'll also add that this is obviously very regional. I don't know. This might be happening in cities. I was out in South Florida last night. Plenty of people on dates. I was out with my husband and a male friend. So there were definitely men at my table. Men do exist. Maybe they've moved. Is the crux there.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Dudes like to hang out with. Dudes who like dudes, women who like dudes. The total dearth of dudom on the left makes it hard for men who are men to get involved, I think. And you know who's going to kill your spiders now? This is the situation you put yourself in.

[Carol Markowitz]

Yeah, look what you've done to us all. Let the men be men again.

[Mary Catherine Ham]

Come back men. Yeah, they'll come to Florida, please.

[Carol Markowitz]

Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us@ normallythepodmail.com thanks for listening. And when things get weird, act normally.

[Ryan]

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